That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - David Furnish

Episode Date: November 29, 2021

Ahead of World Aids Day on 1st December, in this episode Gaby chats to David Furnish - film maker, the chairman of Elton John Aids Foundation, a proud daddy and a genuinely good guy. He talks passionately about the Foundation and the work it does around the globe. Together with his husband Elton John they want to make a difference and strongly believe that every life is precious and no one is left behind. He talks about their boys, the trip they just took to Canada and the family’s favourite card game. They both discuss their love of movies and about the powerful impact that both of the TV shows “It’s A Sin & “Pose” have made over the past year. For more information and to donate go to eltonjohnaidsfoundation.org Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to that Gabby Rosen podcast, part of the Acast Creator Network. Ahead of World AIDS Day. My guest this week is a filmmaker, the chairman of Elton John AIDS Foundation, a proud daddy and a genuinely good guy. I'm delighted to welcome David Furnish to the show. He talks passionately about the foundation and the work it does around the globe. Together with his husband Elton John, they want to make a difference and strongly believe that every life is precious.

and that no one is left behind. He talks about their boys, the trip that they've just had to Canada, and the family's favourite card game. We both discuss our love of movies, and we talk about the powerful impact that both of the TV shows It's a Sin and Pose have made over the past year.

I honestly could have listened to David Speak all day. He is a caring, thoughtful, kind man, and I do hope you enjoy our chat. For more information and to donate, go to Elton John Aids, Foundation, that's all one word.org. That's Eltonjornades Foundation.org. Please can I ask you a favour? Would you mind following and subscribing, please, by clicking the follow or subscribe button? This is completely and utterly free, by the way. And you can also rate and review on Apple Podcasts,

which is the purple app on your iPhone or iPad. Simply scroll down to the bottom of all of the episodes. I know there have been quite a few now. And you'll also. see the stars where you can tap and rate and also please write a review. Thank you so much. Lovely, lovely David. Lovely, lovely Gabby. Oh, how are you? I'm very well, thank you. How are you? I'm very well, thank you. And how's Elton after the operation? Is he okay? He's doing really well. It was a big success, long overdue. So he's feeling better, you know, almost immediately in his hip and in himself, which is great. And he's embarked on an ambitious program of rehab and recovery, which is great. And that's going very well. And he's actually

really enjoying it. And he's making terrific progress. I was just away for half term. I took the boys to Canada. And I came back. And the progress that Elton's made in just a week of me being away was incredible to see it. It's like, wow, okay, this is really. really going in the right direction. I'm laughing because, isn't it? It's that moment you go, oh, so you didn't need me? I know. It's those moments that you go, oh, it's when my husband and my youngest were away also

for a few days and a half term. And they came back. And actually, I did the same thing to him as Elthor's done to you. And he went, oh, did you miss him? No, you know what? I got so much dumb. I feel, and I had that look that I'm sure you gave your husband exactly the same look. He did say he missed us terribly. So having spent so much time together during lockdown and seeing, as a family, all of us seeing each other every single day, which was heaven, I think, I think, you know, when we disappeared for a week on half-term break, which we need, the boys needed to do. They needed a proper break. And I wanted to go back to Canada to see my family. I think it actually ends up being a big, a big, quiet, quiet old empty house for him.

Does he do what I do? Because I talk to myself, if when, when Elton's and the boys are away, and you're in the house on your own. And do you ever do the thing? I suddenly found myself after two days talking to myself, realized, ridiculous, but I do. He's become obsessed with FaceTime. He just FaceTime's the world all the time, cold FaceTime's people. So he doesn't sort of give people the advance notice to say, I'm going to FaceTime you. And the look on people's faces when they randomly get these FaceTime calls for him,

because he's just discovering it's such an easy way to connect with people. because he doesn't actually like talking on the phone very much. He's a very sort of, you know, a get things done kind of person. So I think he finds the phone a bit, a bit waffly from time to time. So he, face-time, the immediacy of it just absolutely works for him. So he's always, always FaceTiming people. Oh, so he didn't need to talk to himself. I had at that moment where I just, I realized that I was giving myself a commentary in the kitchen

when I was doing the supper and they weren't here. It was like, oh, where's the red on? Oh, I'll do ridiculous things I was doing. And then I thought, no, I think I might have to stop. Just in case somebody's listening. Just in case. So did you have a good time in Canada before you were a Pringle? I saw the photograph.

You were a Pringle. I know, a hot and spicy Pringle. That's what the devil horns were all about. We had a lovely time. Lockdown was hard for a whole bunch of reasons for so many people. But not being able to see my brothers in Canada for two years. And we lost our dad during lockdown. and it was impossible to go home for me to go home and to say goodbye and to,

you know, support them in getting everything in order. And I just felt such a profound sense of gratitude. You know, they dealt with it all so elegantly and so selflessly. And, you know, you don't want to take familial support like that for granted. You really want to, you know, wrap your arms around family in a situation like that as soon as you possibly can. and our boys absolutely love Canada. So it was a perfect, perfect opportunity to reconnect and to do something with them that they loved. And Zachary, our oldest, is become completely obsessed with fishing.

And so he's done lake fishing. He's done deep sea fishing, but he hasn't done fly fishing. So we were able to get a couple of days up north and introduce into fly fishing, which he absolutely loved. Oh, that's so cute. Yeah. That's such a simple, lovely thing. You know, I mean, I'm so sorry about your dad. I really am. And lockdown was, was just awful and evil for so many people and they're having to be kept apart. But there's something quite wonderful you say about going out there and fly fishing. I mean, that's such a simple, quiet, peaceful thing to do. I love that you took him off to do that. That's very special. I love that he's embraced fly fishing so much

because, you know, there's so many distractions for kids today with phones and iPads and video games and internet and television and everything. And the fact that he's chosen himself. I mean, I caught sunfish off a dock when I was 10 in Canada. That's the extent of my fishing experience. And Elton, I don't think he's ever fished at all. And the fact that he's run into this and he enjoys it so much. I'm just thrilled with because, you know, it's outdoors and it's, it's in the fresh air. And it's also really meditative, you know, to have the patience and to get the joy out of standing and catching fish, you know, in any environment. And let's face it, it's, you know, fishing is a lot of waiting around.

And it's his happy place. He just goes straight into it. And he's taken it all on himself. Oh. First thing he wanted to do when the shops open was go to a, a fishing shop. So we went to the local fishing shop and we walked in the door and he grabbed a basket and he's like, this is the real I need. This is the rod. I need this fish food. I need a floater. I need a sinker. Oh my God. Where did this all come from? That was my question.

I'm like, where did you learn all of this? Where did this come from? And he's just gleaned it from different people that have come across his path. He's learned a lot about it on YouTube. There's there's angling magazines you can get in the newsagents here in Britain. So he's picked up a lot of those. And he's just, it's like this big smorgasbore for him. He's just dived into all aspects of it. And he was really researching it. And he's knowing, knows it so well now.

It's amazing to see. Really amazing. It is when you mention all the distractions, because there's so much. You know, we all do it. I'm sure you get, you do as well. But you suddenly realize, oh, my God, half an hour is gone. And I'm scrolling through this or I'm looking at. that or I'm checking this or I'm writing another email but actually getting out and I swear by it.

I'm I bore everybody because I like to walk. I walk about up to 10 miles a day and I go from meeting to meeting just walking. And I tell you what, what it has done for me physically and mentally is incredible. And that's the same thing as your baby boy being out there in the fresh air. I mean, I love that. More parents should be doing this with their kids. Well, as I said, he ran into it himself. I mean, I think the job of every parent is to introduce your children to as many opportunities as possible with a big, broad, open mind. Experience and try different things. And when you find they identify those things or they feel a real calling to a particular activity or a sport or a musical instrument or whatever, I think you just want to do everything you can to

encourage it and to support it, you know, because it is such a very, very special thing for that. to happen because for it to come along naturally to appeal to them, you know, so strongly is, yeah, it's a, it's a golden gift. So I've been to Canada once when I was filming about, we were doing a story about killer whales. And it was for a TV show, Killer Whales, and we were doing grizzly bears. And we went, we flew over into Canada. We went to this incredible Inuit community. And I honestly, I remember thinking, and this is a strange thing to say, but I remember thinking how fresh it smelled. The whole Canada smelt like nowhere else I've ever been. It's smelt of fresh air. Does that make sense?

To visit an Inuit community, you were probably quite a ways up north. It's a beautiful country, a spectacularly beautiful country, and so much of it is unoccupied and it's just natural and open and beautiful and gorgeous. Yeah, I appreciate Canada more and more since I've moved away, interestingly enough, and that was a very long time. It was over 30 years ago. I moved to the UK. But every time I go back, I appreciate it more and more for a whole bunch of reasons.

But that real kind of connection with nature and the outdoors and the purity of everything is really special. Yeah, that's a very special place. So I'm pleased you had a nice holiday. Let's get on to one of the things I really want to talk. you about is because a mutual friend of ours got us in touch. I know you and I've met on a couple of occasions when I was giving Elton Award and gave you an award. And weirdly, you might not remember this, but we did something long, long, long time ago, which was the student fashion awards. Yes. And there's a wonderful quote where you say, everybody should have one suit tailor made

and then they've got to look after it. And I love that. That's something that just, and it was something to do with your late dad, wasn't it, that he was really into all of that? Yeah, my dad, my dad was always very, very well turned out. We didn't have a lot of money growing up. My mom made all her own clothes because there wasn't the money for her to buy them. And she was actually a really amazing seamstress. And my dad, because he was a businessman, he needed suits to go to work. He didn't have very many suits, but the suits that he had were beautifully made by a small sort of above the shop kind of tailor, nothing, you know, Savile Roish or fancy, but a real craftsman and someone that understood

and appreciated, you know, what went into the making and tailoring of a beautiful suit. So dad really appreciated that and he also took care of his clothes so beautifully. And that was why they didn't have much money. He didn't have very many options to choose from, but he always looked immaculate because he just, you know, cared for everything that he had and respected it so well. And I, you know, that rubs off when you're a kid. You learn a lot from that. What you guys have done, I didn't realize the extent, actually, of what you guys have done. And I know that sounds a funny leap from me saying about you looking after yourself, but it's, you want to then put it out to everybody else. You're

going, you know what, let's look after each other. And your whole tagline is every life has equal value and never leave anyone behind. And I just feel that that's how you've been brought up. Yeah, I mean, the journey to any happy life starts with self-love and self-respect. And a disease like HIV-AIDS, unfortunately, you know, really affects a lot of the most marginalized people in our society who already feel less than. They don't feel more than.

and HIV seems to find its way into these vulnerable communities and continues to grow disproportionately within very specific communities, but where people, you know, perhaps don't have the opportunity or the ability to love themselves and respect themselves as much as they can. And, you know, every human soul deserves love and deserves redemption. and we've long made it a mission of the foundation to put our arms around absolutely everybody that is at risk from this disease and is living with this disease

to make sure that everybody has access to care and compassion and treatment. Elton wrote a wonderful philanthropic memoir called Love is the Cure. And that really is, you know, if we can just love our, fellow man, person, woman more and more, just that little bit more, we can heal so much in our world. I know that sounds really woke and hokey and there'll be people rolling their eyes. But if we can just think about our fellow person and put our arms around them and support them

and try to understand what they're going through and what they're dealing with and offer, you know, support, it's amazing. The work I do with the foundation when I go out in the field, I'm long overdue for another field trip. But when you see people who are struggling and have been dealt a rough hand in life, when you just start them down the path of being able to lift themselves up and support themselves and support their communities better, it's amazing to see the human spirit kick in. And it just flies from that moment on. It's not like a bunch of people sitting around moaning and wailing and complaining about

you know, their lot in life and wanting a handout, quite the opposite. They just want to be, have their hands held at the beginning. They want to be shown the way. And then the minute they see a bit of light at the end of the tunnel, they're off running for it. And it's a really inspiring thing to see. And it has so much to do with the success, successes that we've been able to have with HIV AIDS over the past, you know, 30 years, the way that communities have responded and no community initially more aggressively and more compassionately than the gay community,

the LGBT community, when AIDS first reared its ugly head in the 80s and very, very much, you know, decimated one community and how that community pulled together and galvanized to, you know, make extraordinary change. socially, educationally, and in terms of medical advances. I mean, it's unbelievable. If you look at the history of Act Up in America, Act Up in France, you know, the pressure they put on governments and on pharmaceutical companies to really move things along at a much, much quicker pace. It changed the game

for the trajectory of this disease. And that's all through community self-love and community support. it works. Did you, I mean, going back, because you and I both obviously know people who have passed with AIDS and looking back to those friends of mine who, I mean, I'll never forget their faces in those final few weeks of their lives. And I wish, oh God, I wish they were still here on the planet now. Of course I do. But I wish they were here to see what's happening.

in 30 years. I mean, it is incredible what's happened and what the huge change when it was first started in the 80s and then in the early 90s, what it was like and people's ignorance, ignorance about it. I mean, I remember, I remember going and visiting a friend in a certain mission in the east of, east end of London, and it was very well known. And I just quietly went off to go and see people. And I had a taxi driver refused to let me in the taxi afterwards. And I remember going, being dropped off at another place and the taxi driver screaming at me and spitting and just going, what are you going to give me everything? You're evil, you're evil. I mean, I, and that was just a few, I mean, this happened a few times. But God,

that please tell me that that has lessened now? It's certainly lessened in, in, you know, parts of the world where access to education and treatment has been, you know, much more robust. We've learned so much over the past years, there's greater awareness of what, you know, living your life positively means. And it is an amazing thing now. the life that people can live with HIV, you know, on something as simple as one pill a day, which is really easy with very rarely does it have the side effects of the earlier medications.

And most importantly, when your disease is properly managed by one pill a day, you don't pass the virus on to someone else. So treatment is actually prevention. I mean, that is an amazing position to be in versus where we were 25 and 30 years. ago that where there was nothing, there was no hope at all other than, you know, nutrition, love, palliative care. That was what we had in the menu of things to choose from. And we did the best we could. But to have access to these medications and treatments now is extraordinary. Unfortunately, in other parts of the world, particularly parts of the world where there is a lot more LGBT discrimination, parts of Eastern Europe, parts of Russia, parts of Africa, the deep south

in America with deeply Christian communities and some of the prejudice that that brings out, the judgmentalism that gets brought out, the lack of access to health care, the lack of access to education. HIV seems to dig in really well in those environments. and, you know, affects people very, very disproportionately. And as a result, there's a lot of, still a lot of outdated perceptions. Like you get HIV, you die. You get HIV, it's a gay disease. It means you're gay.

You know, none of those things are true and they don't apply anymore. You know, 75 million people on the planet were infected with HIV. It's the world's largest disease. This disease knows no boundaries. Everyone is at risk of contracting HIV. And unfortunately within, again, parts of the world, you know, when you have LGBT discrimination, unfortunately, that just washes over HIV AIDS

in its entirety across the entire population. So if it's, if you're in a, let's say you're somewhere where it's illegal to be gay, and there are parts of the world like that, or you're deeply discriminated against. Nobody wants to present for an HIV test, whether they're gay, straight, whatever. Nobody wants to pick up their medication.

Nobody wants to adhere to their medication, which is important. You take a pill a day. You have to continue to take a pill a day for the rest of your life. But it does have this knock-on effect that further stigmatizes HIV across all of society. And as a result, people don't, present for testing more. They don't talk about living with HIV in a positive way. They don't present themselves as an example of someone who does live a full and happy,

healthy life with their disease properly managed. And in the darkest shadows of society is when things, you know, where there's no light is where things get out of control and where a disease like HIV really, really roots in. And that's where we as a foundation are turning our focus. And as you rightly pointed at the beginning, no one gets left behind. That is our motto. It's something that Elton is passionate about. And if we don't put our arms around everybody,

HIV will continue to flourish and grow in our society. When it's completely preventable and treatable now, That's the greatest crime, the fact that with the medications we have at our hands today, not a cure, not a vaccination, not, you know, just the medications to treat or prevent the spread of HIV, we could have no new HIV infections tomorrow if everybody had access to HIV testing and access to treatment. Isn't that incredible? But there's tons of barriers that we have to continue to knock down on the way in

to get to that point. And we think we can get to that point by 2030. That is that is the trajectory that we're on. That is something that UN AIDS believes is achievable, as does everyone at the Elton John AIDS Foundation. But we can't take our foot off the accelerator. And we're living, you know, COVID has really taken its toll on our planet. It's put our health systems under extraordinary strains. It's caused our governments to dig deeper and deeper to fund, you know, the support of society through a global health crisis. And, you know, we've cut foreign aid in Britain. We've gone back in our commitment that we made to give a certain percentage of our GDP to foreign aid. And if we start cutting vital HIV programs, if we stop funding, then we

we will start to lose the ground that we've gained, and we will start to see a rise in an increase in new HIV infection. So we have to keep going. We have to keep our foot on the pedal. What I find so extraordinary is that when I was younger and there were, everyone was talking about it, and there were the adverts on television with the tombstones, which everybody remembers who was around then. And then nobody talked about it. And I remember doing work with HIV and AIDS and people look at me going why are you still talking about this?

It doesn't exist anymore. And so people think, and now obviously because of COVID people, that's at the forefront of their mind and understandably, understandably for a lot of people, that is. But it hasn't gone away. And the fact that you've just said by 2030,

your foundation believes that this can be a thing of the past. That is incredible. This is something that we should all be talking about. This should be discussed all the time. We should. And if you look at all the diseases that affect our society, I mean, the fact that we've made such extraordinary progress in such a relative short period of time

to end the world of the greatest disease that affected our planet is a remarkable extraordinary achievement. And it's a goal that's within our sites. And that's something that we focus on with our fundraising. We just say you can be part of ending the moment. world of its greatest disease. It just needs consistent support and an ongoing effort to finish the job properly and not lose the ground that we've gained. Last year, everybody talked about kindness. And you talk about it with the foundation and Elton talks about it as well.

And it is, kindness is so important. We know there are biggest out there. We don't need to get, we're absolutely aware of that. Sadly, there are people out there who are. anti. I have to say, when I saw you a couple of weeks ago, I said to you that I love the thought that my kids, who are both teenagers, they both, they don't know a world that gay people didn't marry. Yeah. They don't, they, they think it's completely, you know, yeah, they've got friends who've got two moms, two dads, they don't even believe. Totally more to them. Yeah, that's part of a life and the world. And, but they, and when they watched it's a sin, They just went, but this is really recent history.

Yeah. People being treated like this. But what's happened to the kindness that everybody went on about last year? You know, that it seems to have turned a bit again. And isn't kindness just the simplest thing that we should all be doing? Well, it costs you nothing. Yeah. It's easy to do and it's easy to give.

I think, yeah, there's a lot of noise in the world today. there's a lot of uncontrolled biased noise being spouted in a lot of different directions. I think, you know, the internet for all the wonderful things that it's brought to our world, I think in a lot of respects it has a lot to answer for. You know, when you and I grew up, we all went home every night and we watched the same six o'clock or seven o'clock news. News was something that was produced, you know, within inside a television network news divisions were sacrosanct divisions of media companies.

They were not allowed to be biased. It was important that they reported the news as it was. And nowadays news comes from all sorts of unregulated sources. The growth and the capitalization and spreading of news actually is enhanced by pandering to bias. And then the internet itself is rigged in a way that it serves you more of what you like. So if you have a particular political view, and that's what you click on, your news feeds and your Google feeds and all your other feeds are going to continue to give you more of what you already know as opposed to a balanced central point of view that we all used to have 20 or 30 years

ago where we all were basically getting the same news. And I think that's unfortunately divided our society. I think it's made a lot of people a lot angrier. I think it's made them feel, you know, in some cases, rightly so. There's a lot of inequity in our society right now and a lot of things we're working hard to redress. But I think a lot of people are, unfortunately, the objectivity that we had in our news-based society before just doesn't exist in the way that it did. And it's carving our world up. It's dividing our world up.

And it's upsetting to me. because I look at the progress we've made with HIV-AIDS. I know, one of the big reasons it's such a extraordinary success, and I look at, you know, the American government who got on board early, you know, the PEPFAR program was a groundbreaking, huge, you know, multi-billion dollar global initiative. That was a nonpartisan effort. That was, you know, both sides of the aisle in the American House of Congress and Senate,

you know, coming together for the great. greater good. And when we as a society can put our differences aside and can come together, you know, we can make anything happen. Anything is possible. And HIV AIDS within the American government to this day is one of the last surviving nonpartisan programs on Capitol Hill. Unfortunately, we've all stood by and watched it. America is a very, you know, angry, divided country at the moment. And it's a real, and the kindness disappears. It evaporates. And it's a real shame to see that happening. Because the opposite is just such an amazingly powerful, potent thing.

When we do pull together, we can make anything happen. And you're kind of seeing it happening with COVID and with people's attitudes towards vaccination and masking. And I think, unfortunately, there was a lot of politicization of public health in relation to COVID and a lot of mixed and inconsistent messaging. And I think it's, again, allowed people to be pulled into these disparate groups where there isn't a commonly held view in the way that there used to be anymore. And it's pitting people against each other.

And that's when the kindness disappears. And it's it frightens me. And it's something as apparent. I put out and I put a lot of effort in with our boys to debate, to open their minds to other points of view, to, you know, hopefully develop skills of critical. thinking, like being able to get information from numerous sources and to really get to the bottom of what you hopefully find to be the closest thing to truth and an informed point of view, as opposed to always just going to one source and always just, you know, closing your mind

down to other possibilities. But how wonderful for them, you know, that what they're seeing that you two do. And I think, you know, all kids look to their parents. Then when they're younger, Wait till you haven't got reached the teenage, properly teenagers. Oh, good luck. Good luck. Good luck. Oh, good luck. Yeah. You get, you kiss them on the top of the head and the night. You go, no night. And they go, no night. No night. And then they come out the next morning and it is literally, who has just come out of their bedroom? Just warning you in the nicest possible way. But then they come back again. But what you're giving them in seeing the foundation actually is that's about, and I'm going to go back to the word kindness. That.

is about helping everybody. As you say, every life is equal and never, never leave anyone behind. So how amazing that they've got that as a way of looking at the world. All kids should have that. You know, that's how all of us and when we're young should be taught, should be shown the way. You know, everyone's equal. Do good. Be kind. Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, it's at the core of our, of our entire existence. We live an extraordinarily blessed life. We're very, very lucky with the life that we live. And both Alt and I feel quite strongly that with a life like that, you have a profound responsibility to give back.

You know, when life is good to you, you need to turn that back and be good to other people. That's essential. And as two gay men that survived HIV AIDS in the 80s, and it's so great that series like, it's a sin. Oh, so good. And you look at Pose, you know, sort of actually the whole narrative of Pose plays over

the early years of the, of the, and the developments of the AIDS epidemic. We mustn't forget. We mustn't forget the price that people paid and how bleak and how dire and how difficult it was. A, I think it's always important to remember history, but B, it reminds us we can overcome difficult times and difficult things if we just pull together. And if we put our hearts and our minds and our resources, you know, towards the greater good, we can make anything happen.

I get the feeling from you that you're, you know what you want and you're quite determined. And I mean that. I say that, you know, people say that of me. And I always think, oh, what do you mean? But actually, I get it because you knew you wanted to do films, but you thought advertising was the way in because they were little films. Yeah. And then you'd rocket pictures and all of the things that you've done.

And you seem to do it with this incredible, okay, with a smile on your face. That's the simplest way of splitting it. But you do. And is it, where does this drive come from? I don't know. I think you're, you know, you have your passions in life. You're born with them. You know, as a kid growing up in a very unfashionable suburb.

And what was deemed to be an unfashionable suburb of Toronto. You know, the world of cinema, the world of music, the world of theater. You know, the arts in general for me were like a passport. They were an opportunity to, you know, look at the world in a different, you know, more colorful and enjoyable way. And I learned so much from going to the movies. Oh, which films? Which movies did you see that made you think, look what's outside of. Oh, my God.

I mean, I mean, just everything. I mean, it, whether it was fantasy filmmaking, I worked in a video store, and I used to go home with like, you know, 10 cassettes under my arm every night because I could. Yes. And I just watched like the early MGM musicals. I watched, you know, the great cinema of the 70s, you know, the Scorsese's and the coppola's and the, you know, amazing places that cinema could go in terms of shining a light

on, you know, different elements and facets of society. and then, you know, the 80s when it became much more, you know, the post kind of Star Wars era where it became about, you know, larger than life entertainment and escapism. I just loved cinema in all of its shapes and forms. And I just had real fire in my belly where that was concerned. I ran my university film society. I was at university, again, before dating myself, before, you know, home video, we had a cinema on campus. And so we would, on Friday and Saturday night, screen two movies a night.

We had a projection group of projectors. And I got to work with a group of people and choose the films and program that and do the ads and the promotion and everything. And I just loved it. And I took some film courses at university. I learned about great otters like Hitchcock and Howard Hawks and William Weiler, Robert Altman. We did some Scorsetian. We did some Coppola. We really got into great au tours of filmmaking. And I don't know, just the passion was there. And I was persuaded by my parents.

And I wanted to be an actor as well. I did lots and lots of theater and musical theater and drama in high school. My parents, you know, persuaded me that getting an education, getting some sort of foundation of education in place first would be a wise thing to have to take me through life and something that I could always rely on. So all my friends left high school

to go off and pursue acting in different shapes and forms and I went off to study business, which was kind of putting a square pig in a round hole. But in the midst of all of that, you know, I found the university film society that I could be a part of.

I worked in the video store that I loved. I took the film courses that I was talking about. I could take those in addition to the intensive business studies that I was doing. And as you rightly pointed out, when I got at a university, the closest I could get to making films was making small films with advertising. And that was the stepping stone to get me to where I am today, where I love working and creating films and entertainment. I love working in theater, working on television.

What an amazing opportunity to be able to help shape culture and to be able to help create things that hopefully people like and hopefully they find entertaining and informative and that they take a little bit of it with them as they as they go go forward in their lives. That's a wonderful, wonderful thing to be able to play a part of. And you're, and you know, you've been in people's lives and you've done so much great work with television. I mean, when you do television, you're in people's homes every day and you really become a part of their life. And that's a, that's an awesome opportunity and also a huge. responsibility. And it's the sort of thing, you know, we must never take for granted.

Oh, completely. We're blessed. We're absolutely blessed. But when you're saying about films, it's because I do a film show as well on the radio and that we're doing a live show of it. But films, there is something incredible. All the films that you were mentioning and the big musicals, I loved the big musicals. Oh, my word, when I was growing up. And then the 80s films, I still go back and I've introduced them to my kids, all the big 80s. Brat Pack films and all of those. The Indiana Jones is in the back to the future. Yes.

You know, they're all, it's amazing, amazing evolution in cinema. They really are. But then I'm just thinking about that because my kids, because when Nomio and Juliet came out, oh, that, how cute. Oh, my word, how cute is that? And then obviously, Billy Elliott, the musical, I remember going to see it. I actually have lost count of how many times I went to see it

because I had friends in it. But all of these things, that it's all, it's, like I said, you were quite determined because you've gone out, you've done it. My God, you've done it. And then obviously, Rocket Man and Tantoms and Tartons and all of these, but you've done it. How exciting is that? That little boy that wanted to do it. It's like, my God, I've done it. Incredibly lucky, very blessed. Also, very fortunate, you know, through my relationship with Elton and his passion, our shared passion for the projects that.

we've worked on together. You know, it's afforded me some extraordinary opportunities to be able to collaborate with him. Yes, but you as well. Come on. We're talking new. Of course, but I don't, you know, it's really hard, really tough getting, getting films made, getting theatrical shows up and running successfully, getting television, you know, great television made. It is a collaborative effort. It really is something that takes a team of people. to really share the passion and share the belief, to make something, you know, great. I always say when people are really hard on a particular film

or a piece of entertainment, I'm like, yeah, you know, it's really hard to get a film made and nobody ever sets out to make a bad film. Like everybody sets out believing they're going to create something that hopefully the world's going to like. Unfortunately, you know, there's so many factors at play. They don't often turn out the way that people hope they did or the concept just doesn't, you know,

hold water. But everybody tries to create something special and to create something magical. And I just, I just feel very lucky that all the things that I've worked on, I'm incredibly proud of. I hope they'll stand the test of time. It's been a joy working with the people that I've worked with. I have, I love working with Alton because he's so enthusiastic, he's so creative. He's also very hands-off. He doesn't, he doesn't micromanical. He doesn't, he doesn't micromanage the process. He does what he does well. And then he hands it over to the everyone else that works on a particular, you know, film or show or whatever. And he really, you know, gives them the confidence to go out and do their best rather than breathing down everyone's neck

and, you know, making everybody second guess what they're doing all the time. He's great. And then just the people I've been able to to work with, you know, the Rocket Man very recently, you know, Matthew Vaughn, when he and I started discussions about working together on Rocket Man. I mean, that was just the greatest, that we'd been trying for years to get that film off the ground. I mean, 11 years it took to bring to this group. And that's the life film story of Elton John, you know, one of the world's biggest musical artists. It's hard to get films made. And Matthew, you know, brought such passion and such experience to the show.

he brought to my attention that Taryn Edgerton, you know, who I thought was a terrific actor. Incredible. It was a great singer. I didn't know Taryn could sing. And then Dexter Fletcher, who directed it, you know, did such a great job. All the crew, all the cast. Everybody was, you know, amazing to work with. It takes a team to move a mountain like that.

Like, it really does. And I guess the reason I look so happy, as you, it's just so nice of you to say is, you know, when you get there in the end and you're really proud of what you've achieved. My God, you're like, you're over the moon happy. Because it's a real, it's a real journey. It's a, it's a journey with ups and downs and it's never a straightforward trajectory. It never turns out the way that you plan it to go. There's always all sorts of surprises along the way. But when you finally get there and you're really proud of what you've done, yeah, it's amazing. It's wonderful. Do you know, I hear that there's a word that people say about you, we know we have mutual friends. And the word that they always say is

that you're incredibly loyal, which I think is a wonderful thing for people to say. And that's a powerful thing to have said about you, isn't it? Yeah. And it's interesting. It's one of the very first things that drew me to Elton. We know when I came into this world, we celebrated our 28th anniversary on Saturday. It was 28 years ago on Saturday. We met. Thank you for the very first time. At the dinner party, wasn't it a dinner party that you didn't want to go to? Dinner party I didn't want to go to here at the House of Windsor. I didn't know what to expect. It all happened at the last minute. There was no time to kind of prepare or psych yourself up for something like that. And I just went along with sort of very little expectations. And not really

having followed Elton for a period of time, I was a huge fan in the 70s. I didn't follow him quite as closely in the 80s. I loved too low for zero and sleeping with the past, but I hadn't, you know, been as invested in his music as I was earlier on. And I just thought, well, maybe I'd walk in the front door and there'd be a guy who would just sit on the sofa and regale us with stories of his greatness. And we'd all, you know, upon admirably and say, oh, yes, isn't that wonderful? And that isn't who Elton was at all. He was gracious. He was humble. He was funny as hell. He was so funny. And he was more interested in all of us and what we did and what our lives were all about. And he wasn't self-aggrandizing at all. And as we started to kind of, you know, walk the steps of

testing the waters of, you know, a relationship, all those things flood into your head about, hang on a minute. This isn't just anybody. This is Elton John. And this is the type of thing that, you know, once it's in the public, it will be there forever and it could, you know, affect the course of your life. And there's all a million and one stories about, you know, the relationship instability of people from that world. And so you think, you know, is it worth investing the time? But one of the things that I was so reassured by without him was his loyalty. You know, all of the people that were working with him in the house here had been with him for years and years and years. You know, people that worked on his tour, his tour director, his sound man had been with him since the 70s.

His band, I mean, Nigel Olson's been his drummer since, since, you know, the very first Elton John album, Davy Johnston's been with him since 1974, I think, or 75. Amazing. I looked at all of that. And even though Elton had a patchy personal life, professionally, he, and in his home environment, he was a deeply loyal person and had extraordinary longevity and relationships. So that's something that we definitely bonded over. And yeah, I mean, if you don't have loyalty in life, what do you have?

I mean, there's nothing I find more unsettling than shifting sands. I find it hard to do business. I find it hard to conduct relationships in any shape or form. If it's not based on a foundation of trust and longevity and continuity, it's when people, you know, suddenly reveal sides of themselves or, you know, go back on something that they promised or agreed, I always find that really difficult and unsettling. And loyalty lifts you out of all of that because, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a wonderful, um, reassuring aspect to life when, when you respect it and when you, when you, um, you know,

pay credence to it. It's a great thing. It's interesting. You said another word there that I, I, I, I, because I wonder when you're in the position that you two are. And because you're known throughout the world, there must be very difficult to trust people. I remember having a conversation with Elton about, he just being given an award and somebody came over and was gushy, gushy, gushy, gushy. And I think like, because I say what I think.

And I said, ooh, that person just was being gushy because you're Elton John. And he went, yeah, I know. And it was just like, huh, I know, I'm used to it. But it must be tough about the people that you let in and trusting them. Because your life is private. And I will stand by that with any of the fabulous people that I've spoken to that your private life is your private life. I am not interested at all. So letting people in is, it must come down to trust. Well, it's sacred. It's a, it's a sacred part of your life.

And when a big aspect of your life is lived in the public eye, you know, what you keep back, what you hold back is very, very special and precious. And it's actually for your mental health and your wellness, and your well-being, it's really important that you preserve that part of your life. I think one of the reasons why our sons are so grounded, you know, at the moment is that, you know, their daddy comes home from being out and John and doing big concerts and he's just daddy. Like he doesn't he doesn't bring that into the household. He wants to know who won the football.

He wants to, you know, play a game of Uno or snakes and ladders. He wants to talk about someone else's music or a great song that he's heard or, you know, something that's happening politically. He doesn't, you have to create that division in your life. It's really important. It's really healthy. It's the same thing as if you, you know, you brought your work into your home all the time. You have to have those moments where you switch off and where you just get to let your hair down and

be the person that you are and that you want to be. And so that separation between the two is really important. And Elton and I will always fiercely fight to protect that. It is a vital component to our stability. and it's really important where our kids are concerned. And I had a lot of fun in the 90s, in the and the naughties in London. I went out a lot more. I went to more events and parties and red carpet things.

I was away touring. It was a lot of fun. And also it was interesting to watch the change in acceptance of an LGBT couple kind of, you know, emerge and to play a small part of that. But now that I have children, I want anonymity. more than anything. There's nothing I like more than I take the boys into Windsor on the weekend. You know, they can't walk down the streets without, and it's just not possible, but they can walk down the streets with me, and we can go to Pizza Express, and we can go into the bookstore,

and we can, you know, get a donut and whatever, and nobody pays any attention to us. And I just think that's really, really important for them, so that they have, you know, the most natural, you know, unaffected interaction with the outside world because they have to be little people and individuals in their own right. They can't have that thrust upon them. I think it's really important that, you know, in life, we all get to be the people that we want to be and that we need to be and that we're and follow the passions that we believe in and to have, you know, the external pressures of that association. You know, it can be a really unhealthy thing. Yeah. I love the idea that you all sit there playing Uno.

I drive me mad, Uno. Oh, my God. Uno mad. Uno flip. Uno Extreme. It seems like every Christmas as I'm scouring the aisles of our local department store looking for things for the boy stockings, there's always a new version of. Someone at Uno is extremely clever because they keep coming up with all these great new versions

of Uno. And yeah, no, we love a good game of Uno. Oh, thank you. You've given me some ideas for the Christmas stocking. my word. I thought there was just Uno, Uno. Oh, my God. There's a cornucopia of udo's out there. You just need to dive in, Gabby. It's all there. I'm scared. I'm scared. So in this podcast, we always ask everybody what makes you belly laugh. So what makes you, like I said, whenever I see you have a smile on your face, but what makes you completely lose it laughing?

Oh my God. Practical jokes make me lose it. Every day, like people, I know this sounds really not terribly compassionate, but like when people fall or slip. Oh, it's my favorite. So one of my favorite things to watch, the boys and I watch something, and we watch something on YouTube, I think it's called football foul-ups. And it's just these endless clips of, you know, someone lining up the game shot and then, like, falling, you know, head over heels as they're about to kick it or, you know, bouncing their head off a goalpost or, you know, anything. We sit and roar with laughter watching it was over and over again.

And I grew up in Canada and watching people slip on the ice, I know as long as they didn't hurt themselves, as long as they didn't break an arm or, you know, just that type of stuff in life is always incredibly funny. I have a video on my phone that I love to watch where Zachary a few years ago on a post-it note put kick me on it and then stuck it on my back. And then he thought he was doing something that I'd never heard of before and that it was so clever. And I filmed him as he was like setting this all up and I kept my kept filming him. And then he said, Papa, look at the note on your back. And of course, I knew what it was. And I acted horrified and surprised. He rolled around on the kitchen floor and laughed like I've never heard a laugh like it in my life for a good solid five minutes.

He thought it was the funniest, funniest thing. And so seeing someone else lose it like that, like to just laugh so uncontrollably also just sends me off. I love. I love. watching that kind of thing. So when I have a down day, I pull that video and it always makes me howl. Do you know what? You're a man after my own heart. You love the musicals. You love the movies. You like to play Uno and you laugh when people fall over on the ice. There is nothing that makes me laugh more. It sounds so cool and insensitive, but I saw a lot of it growing up in Canada. And it is, it is funny. It's so funny. And I always, I do the same as you. I always say, but I always say to people when they ask me, I say, yep, so long as they're okay,

but then I, or somebody walking into a tree, there is nothing funny. There was somebody walking into a tree. It just sounds so cruel. It sounds so cruel. Oh, my darling, thank you so much. It's so lovely. I just, there's one thing I do want to talk about before we go is about, because the thing that brought us together through lovely Russell was, it's a sin.

and when you stood up and you, when Ollie and Elton did the song together, and you stood up and you made that incredible speech. And that TV show, I think, has been one of the most power. You mentioned Pose as well, which I absolutely love. And I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed with Billy. I just want to meet him. But Billy Porter is just, oh, my God, he's heaven.

You know, the fact, I mean, I've been talking with Ryan Murphy about it. who's such a talented, talented filmmaker. It's the only project he did where he wasn't able to get a network commission up front. He had to fund and finance the pilot himself before he could get a commission. And the reason was he was so determined to work with an authentic transcast. And that met working with people who weren't experienced actors, weren't public names, weren't known. And to me, one of the things that makes that series work so well is just the humanity of the performances. I think what trans people have to face in the world today, I think those people are so incredibly brave.

I think what they have to come up against, you know, it takes real courage to live your life as honestly and as authentically as you can when you're in that situation. And so for me, Pose just the humanity of that was incredible. But it's a sin. Yes, it did bring us together through Russell. I just thought, you know, again, what a powerful, powerful reminder of how bleak it once was at the beginning of the AIDS epidemic. And just a real sobering reminder of how hard it was and hopefully makes people appreciate and gives them hope with the extraordinary progress.

that we've made today and not forget the people who, who, you know, died such horrible, horrible deaths. You know, there was so much stigma, there was so much isolation, there was so much prejudice, you know, the scene in it's a sin where the family, you know, just basically takes the one son, he dies, his friends have no opportunity to comfort him or to, you know, support or to grieve, and they just take all of the belongings from his flat in London and burn them in the back garden. I mean, that is not dramatization. That's, sort of thing happened time and time again. There was so much horrendous, horrendous stigma around AIDS at that time. It's got miles better, you know, here in the UK and in other parts

of the world, but we still have a lot of work to do in other parts of the world. And you carry on doing what you two do and all the people as well. Just just carry on doing it because it's amazing what you do. And when I saw the numbers, you know, £450 million raised over five million lives that you've saved. Just what an incredible thing that you do. So, David, my love to Elton, I wish his new hip a lovely life inside him. And one day we'll walk down the street, we'll play Uno, we'll watch a movie, and we'll go to Wagamomamas with the boys. How about that? I love that. They love Wagamomamas. I thought they would. I just had a feeling. Gabby, I've enjoyed this so much.

I've really enjoyed talking with you. And, you know, from the first time I saw you on television, you've always just had this friendliness and kindness and warmth about you. So I felt the same over Zoom today. Oh, bless you. It's such a pleasure. Have a great evening. Thank you.

Hopefully see you soon. Loads of love. All the best, lots of love. Thank you so much for listening. Coming up next week, actor Iwan Rion. That Gabby Roslyn podcast is proudly produced by Cameo Productions. Music by Beth Macari.

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