That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Dawn O'Porter

Episode Date: September 30, 2024

Dawn O'Porter drops by for a chat about all things joy - and to tell us about her new book 'Honeybee' As well as being an author, Dawn is also presenter and absolute fashion icon. She is on a mission to help people choose love and bring joy and laughter to their everyday lives whilst never shying away from a hot topic. Previous books include bestselling novels The Cows, So Lucky, Cat Lady and her non-fiction title Life in Pieces. Dawn started out in TV production, quickly landing in front of the camera, making numerous documentaries that included immersive investigations of Polygamy, Size Zero, Childbirth, Free Love, Breast Cancer, and the movie Dirty Dancing. Further TV work included This Old Thing, a prime-time Channel 4 show celebrating the wonders of vintage clothing before Dawn traded the screen to become a full-time writer.Gaby is desperate for her to do more TV, as you will hear, but Dawn is not chomping at the bit to get back in front of the camera any time soon. She talks about moving back to the UK from living in LA, her charity work, how being reflective in mid life is good - and why we should all find joy in the small things. They talk about losing their mothers at early ages, Flackstock (which has become a huge success) and why dips are just the best food ever. You can find out more about Dawn and here book, here! We hope you enjoy this episode - and would love you to spread the word by liking and sharing and maybe even writing us a review! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Do you know what? If I had to choose, you know those things that people used to ask, if you had your dream dinner party, who would you find? Do you know who's on my list? Who? You. Stop! Yeah.

Oh, that's so lovely. You have a good time as well because neither of us can eat gluten. No, exactly. Not only that, we just both smile. We just, you're a smiley person. You want to spread joy. Your new book is about that. All of your books, as you know, I'm obsessed with that.

I love you on television. Please do more telly. we speak I say that and you go you always say that but I will and I'll keep saying that and get throughout this episode do more telly and also you're married such a lovely man that you were dating when nobody knew you were dating

and I knew you were dating we were doing something for the giant kazoo yeah gazoo kazoo kazoo kazoo the giant kazoo orchestra and you were there and Chris was there and you said to me we're dating but people don't know That's so exciting. Yeah.

God, that was a thousand years ago. So when did you meet? That would have been about 16 years ago. Mr. Porter. Yeah, Mr. O Porter. Yeah, Mr. O'Porter. When did you meet then? So we would have met on my 30th birthday.

So I'm 45, I'm 46 in January. So 16 years ago. Did we do the Kizu Orchestra 16 years ago? It must have been because I hadn't met him before that. So yeah, it would have been, well, now about 15 and a half years ago. Oh, that's so weird. Because you met him in a, in a museum. America, didn't you? I did. Yep, he came to my 30th birthday party. He introduced himself on

Facebook and I didn't think anyone would come to my party. So I just said, come tonight and bring all your friends. And I was seeing someone else who just happened to be out of town. Swapsies. Did you really think nobody, I know we've had this conversation before. But did you really think people wouldn't come? Because that's sort of every child's nightmare, isn't it? Well, I was living in a different, I'd only been there for a year. And you make very, I had a couple of really good friends there, but LA isn't the town of, you know, deep connections. So after a year, I've got some people in my life. I think I can have a party.

I've got enough people that will come, but in true LA style, they all leave by 9 o'clock. Why? Everyone just comes and then goes. They just, no one stays around. People just, they've got other engagements, or they just go. No one stays.

They all just come early or late. So what time do you have to start your party? So I started my party at about 7.30. Okay. And most people were gone by 10. And I'm dancing with my dad and at 11.30, Chris walks in. So he did the last night. late shift. Yes. That story is... I go to a party and I'm there for the duration. You know, I don't, I don't, I don't, if I've got, if someone's asked me to something, I try, like, it's very rare. Okay, 9.30. It says, sorry, 7.30 on the invitation. 7.30. What time do you turn up?

I'd be closer to like, you know, this side of eight. Okay. And then till when? Well, until I, until the baby sister needs me to get home or until I go, but I'm really tried to avoid. And of course, sometimes it happens, but like the double booking. So to say to somebody, oh, you're having a party. I've got something else, but I'll be there for the first half hour. I'm like, I don't want you there for the first half hour. I want you there for the night. So I really try not to be that person. And I either cancel the other thing or prioritize a thing and try to show up for somebody as much as possible.

Or does not go. So you cancel the first invitation? Maybe. For the second? If it's not, you know, it'll always go with the sentimental invitation first. It was someone important to you. If I was going to like a screening of a film

that I had nothing to do with. Oh, okay. Oh, that's okay. I would cancel that to go to my friend's book launch time. But what happens? This is me very passive, aggressively, saying to everyone. All those people. For my book launch in a couple of weeks

who said I've got another thing to go to. Oh, my wife. I didn't realize what I was doing, but that's clearly what I'm doing. That's what you're doing. It's the fear factor. Okay. So what happens if oldest friend, and I know some of your oldest friends, so oldest friend has a book launch and really, really, really old friend is just having a birthday. Same night. Invitations come in, book launch first, the oldest friend second. I couldn't do it. I think it has to be the old friend. Listen, and do you know what will always swear it for me is which one's got dinner? If they give me dinner, I'll go to that party. That's it. Gluten-free food first.

Leutton-free all the way. First choice, though, if there's a whole buffet and you can take anything because it's all safe for us. Okay. I mean, bread and butter. You know, when you can't eat it, I'd love it. I love any kind of carb or hydrate. Like bread, butter, anything mayonnaise-y, love mayonnaise,

anything mixed with mayonnaise. I'm all over it. I don't eat much meat anymore. I've got a bit slightly off-fish, but I do eat it. But I like the kind of, oh, God, But we're going picky, so you're going bread and butter. Bread and butter and really good vegetables. So boring and dips.

I love that. Okay, no. Well, I was going to go there. Yeah. I want a big, like three different blobs of different dips on my plate, lots of different things. And if I wasn't allergic to gluten in this scenario, I would make sure that I had. No, it's all gluten-free.

It's all fun. So anything that was dippable. I love dips so much. Okay, let dip off, okay. We'll go one, two, three, and then you have to say the favourite. Okay. Okay. One, two, three.

Garlic mayonnaise. I stick anything in garlic mayonnaise. Gallic, you did? I stick my finger in garlic mayonnaise. I'm sort of, well, I'm a bit like that with Piccoli. Oh yeah. Spooning Piccoli, but it's not a dip. Yeah, no.

You have to spoon, you can't just dip because you don't get all the vegetables around it. There's a dip that I get in California and as soon as I land at the airport, I do a delivery order to arrive at my house minutes after I arrive. You are kidding me. and it's an almond-based, kind of slightly spicy dip called Bichin sauce. And I took a picture of the ingredients when I was there a few weeks ago, and I've almost recreated it at home. And it's one of my greatest life achievements.

What is it? So almond? It's almonds with some avocado oil, garlic powder, onion powder, bit of paprika, and salt pepper. And that's pretty much it. And you just blend it up and it goes all creamy and, oh, it's just so good. Anything with garlic, you sort of have me with garlic. You have me with onion powder.

But I'm going pickles as well. I love pickle. Okay, we'll have to do the pickle thing again. We have to see which you go first with. Okay, I know exactly where I'm going. I do too. One, two, three. Pickle onions.

Pickle cucumbers. Oh, interesting. Yeah. The garlic-y, the better. Yeah. And the crunchy, soft. Uh-uh. That's not where I thought we were going to go.

But, and again, see, that's perfect for my dream dinner. party. You and the Obamas? Have you met the Obama? No, I haven't and I want to. My friend went to a dinner party and the Obamas were there and she said that Michelle was wearing leather hot pants and I loved her before. Just made me choke up my lemon and ginger tea. Imagine if Michelle Obama turned up to a dinner party wearing leather hot pants. On every level that has to happen. Can we please make that happen? I know it's unbelievable. I did send her an invitation to something once a long time ago and I just wrote on it, dear Michelle, I think you're wonderful. Please, please can I see

you? And then I explained what it was all about. And I got a very, very nice reply, not from Michelle a bomb. Well, no, that's a shame. No, but next time, if I mention leather hot pants and Dornow Porter and maybe it'll happen. Well, I, believe me, I wasn't at that dinner party. This is a story that I've latched onto as my own. Have you seen the photo? Is it true? Because actually, we could all say anything. No, my friend would absolutely have, you know, that's what she wore. She would leather hot pants off the maternity. Oh my goodness, I love that one. Yeah, it's brilliant.

I absolutely love it. Okay, as I do you. Your books, so all of your books, you know I'm obsessed with because when they come out and then I've been sent early ones and things, and I'm always obsessed with that. You write, like you, it comes so much from your soul, and that's the same reason that I'm going to say it again. You should be doing more television because your documentaries were brilliant,

And I know everybody uses that word. I use that word too often, but I'm going to use it absolutely in the right context because they were brilliant. And it comes from so deep in you. And I know we've spoken before and we talk about when you were little and all the sadness that you went through when you were seven.

But it's as if that young you still is there but happy to share that young you. Yeah. What you realize, I did an interview yesterday for a quite well-known newspaper. And as always, when I do any sort of print interview, it really viz heavily towards my sad childhood. They always do.

Yes, which is fine. And I understand that because, you know, it's unusual and it's an interesting story. But as I was sitting there, kind of having done that interview lots of times, for anyone that doesn't know, my mum died when I was very young, and I was raised by my aunt and uncle. And it all sounds very sad. And it is. It was really sad.

But my life isn't. And so what I've got inside of me, when I sit down to work, when I sit down to write, when I sit down to share myself with this kind of, you know, bigger audience than maybe the average person has, is I just have experiences. So when I'm calling upon some sort of emotion, I felt it at some point.

And I think, you know, you can come up with stuff as a creative writer all the time, but when you can attach it back to something that you've actually experienced or felt, it's going to have some more gravitas to it. And so I was just sitting there and I was doing this interview yesterday, and I was like, it is interesting.

And I'm glad that you're asking me these questions. And it's really nice to you ask these questions. And she was lovely the interviewer. And I didn't, but it wasn't actually until afterwards when she walked away going, what we do now is I still keep talking about this sad childhood that I had. Very rarely, which is very excited to come on your podcast, talk about the joy of now and the kind of overcoming of all of these things. And how something sad can actually grow into a huge amount of positivity.

And one thing that I said in the interview yesterday was, you know, in terms of losing a mother, obviously it's awful. I was a child. That's literally terrible. But I have friends who have lost their mothers in the last few years who can't seemingly survive this grief for this person that they've known their whole lives. And I look at them and I'm like, which one's worse?

Do you know, that's really bizarre because I was interviewed recently and they always go back to my mom dying 27 years ago. And she was young and I was young. not as young as you, but I was very young, and that dad had cancer at the same time. And every single interview says, how did you cope? It must have been the most horrific time.

And I always say, I did, but I've learned. And I mean, so when you say that, I know exactly what you're saying. It's not like we're sitting at home still grieving. It's turned into something else. That's part of our story. Yes, exactly. Part of our story.

And if you allow it to, it can be an incredibly powerful force in your life. So grief is, you know, grief will change you forever or completely shift your DNA. But to experience it as a child, and I don't mean this in any way to sound like, I'm glad my mother died or, you know, but I feel like I was also given this gift of like this kind of depth to me that I accessed a part of me at seven years old

that other kids my age didn't even know existed. And that's turned out to be an incredibly positive thing in my life. So I totally, totally understand you. But also when you said people, wonder which is worse, the amount of people that now say to me, oh, you know, if they've lost their mother and she's in her 80s, and they'll say, oh, but poor you, you lost your mom when she was very young. Yes, but you're going through that there's no comparison. No. And when people say to me, well, you know how this feels. And I'm like, no, I don't. I have got no idea how that

feels. Like, I can't even imagine, you know, the three remaining parents that I have, my aunt and uncle and my dad are all still alive. And I'm on the same level as everybody else here, dreading it and will go through what they go through and then I will understand. But when someone's like mother dies now, I have no connection to that at all. Just like love and sympathy and be there for somebody. But as soon as I hear those words, you know how this feels, I'm like, no, it doesn't work that way.

I think because people don't know what to say. Maybe. People don't know. They, they, it's the sort of go-to comment. You go, oh, you know, you must understand. or you know how I feel or I know how you feel because people don't know how to cope with grief. It's one of the things I talk about quite a lot

because I think it's really important that we talk about it because it's inevitable obviously, but there are no rules. No. The amount of people that contact me and say, oh, I'm still missing my mum, my dad, my dog, whatever it is, every single day and they died 12 years ago, what's wrong with me? Nothing. Nothing.

It will go, yeah, you've just, you've got no control over it. No. And if you wake up smiling and your father died two days ago, that's all so fun. Yeah, absolutely. This is your script. This is your way. But what you give, I mean, you give a vast, you're a giver. You are a giver.

I don't know if you're a taker, but you're an extraordinary giver. With your words, with your books, with your TV documentaries, will you please make some more? But with your charity work with Choose Love, it's all about giving. Do you ever take? Do you let people give to you? Do I ever take that? I mean, I'm sure there's lots of people in my life that would say, yes, she does. Yes, I do. I definitely have to check myself sometimes being like, I want a whole social life to happen in my house. I want to cook for everybody. I'm always offering to look after people's kids for them. You know, I am a very, very generous friend in terms of emotional support. I am, if I feel shit, if I'm having a bad day, I don't feel any problem with just, you know, I'm a very, sending the chosen person a message without even a hello saying today's crap, this is why. So I guess that is taking, but I feel like I can do that because I know that I'm there for people

as well. I definitely don't think I'm the kind of person that would take much from somebody I didn't feel I'd given to. It's definitely a back and forth. I don't think so. I'm sure there have been times, but it wouldn't be... Do you ever ask for help? Do I ever ask for help? Well, I've, yes, I do ask for help. the form of, I get asked in interviews a lot as well if I've ever had any therapy and I've had bits and it doesn't really work for me at all. I've never really got it but I go to my friend. I didn't mean it in that bit of a heavy way I just wondered if you. No I know but it's in terms of help so but I would go to like my girlfriend's iron me out all the time and I love that so I guess that's asking for help in one way also at home I am useless on a very practical level I don't know

how to turn the television on like Chris is away at the moment. Don't be ridiculous. I have to text him and be like, no, no, no, no. How do you turn the TV on in the living room? You can't come to my... 57 remote controls. What is happening? As soon as I get to a hotel room, if I'm working,

I call my husband, I send him a picture of the remotes, call my husband and say, what do I do with those? I am so tragic. What do your kids do? They are brilliant and all. They turn the TV on for it. They weren't home the other day, so they couldn't. I don't...

The living room, which I designed, as my favourite living room, is just, I don't go in there because it's now the kids' room. I just sit in the kitchen. So I went in there the other day and thought, oh, I was sit down and watch TV. And I just didn't know how to turn the TV on. That's very normal. So I...

So you can ask for help there? So you do ask for help. Yeah, my bike tyres pressure's low. And I bought myself a bike pump. And I know I'm going to go and say to Chris, please, can you pump up my tyres? But even I don't, so I don't cycle. Because saddles are me, I don't, I can't.

They just, no. It doesn't work. No. But you just have to, unscrew the thing and then screw the other bit on and then you pump. And then I'll just pump. That's not difficult. It doesn't have to be difficult.

Can you change tyre of a car? No, absolutely not. And it happened to me not very long ago and I was just such damsel in distress. I put on the school WhatsApp, what do you do when you get a flat tire? Because they were the only people I know who had been chatting and were receptive to me in that moment. I knew they were online. So I was like, what do you do? What do I do?

Who do I call and what do I do now? So I am, I do ask for help because I am. In the UK, you're talking about. Because I've got like AAA, you know, over there, so you call them. But I didn't know what to do here. I was like, what do you do? And so someone gave me a number and a nice man who changed my tyre. So I am a very, very competent person in many ways.

But in terms of anything practical or building technology, I ask for help all the time. I could say, I'm going to take you out for dinner. And the bill comes. And I say, no, this is on me, but you have to work out the tip because I can't do that. my head goes into a scramble any kind of mathematics. So I would ask for help with working a tip out. Okay, so when anybody ever says to your game, do you ask for help? Do you realise you've just listed about 20 things?

So you can, very simple, just say yes. I do take. I do take. It's absolutely fine. And now you're like, fucking hell. I don't want to say that is an intense friendship. Your friends are, you've mentioned the word friends a lot. Your friends are so important to you.

And I know we've talked about. Oh, Caroline. You know, that's just so heartbreaking. But what's come out of that, again, is something extraordinary. I mean, so we put Flagstock on in 2020. God, I mean, every year is just a blur. 2022 is the first one. Is that right? Yes, it must be. Has it not been going longer than that? No. So we did the first one in 2022. And it was just, it was a festival in honour of Caroline. We thought we'd get lots of performers who knew her because she knew lots of people. We'd just put on a big party and celebrate her life. Because when you lose someone by suicide, one of the hardest things to deal with, when you're left behind

is that their life is defined by something so sad when actually most of their life was pure joy. So we just wanted to kind of correct that tragedy. The same as you were talking about at the beginning with your mum and just looking at the joy of life. Yes, it's like not, you know, the way that something ends doesn't define the life. And so we put on Flagstock

and I hadn't wanted to do it. It scared the hell out of me. I thought if we fail, it's going to reflect badly on Caroline. It will be a disaster. And I just watched all of those terrible documentaries about all the failed festivals in America that was so awful. I was like, oh God, what are we doing? This is too much.

Anyway, about five minutes into the first one starting, I walked out on stage and I was just like, this is coming back next year. This is, we're in. This is it forever. So we've just done our third year, and it was absolutely amazing. Like, Oli Moore's headline this year.

It's moved away. from just being about Caroline now. It'll always be in her honour. But it really is like a festival about positivity and hope. And everybody that comes, it's for them. And I know that sounds cheesy, but it really is. And you really feel this connection with everyone there. They haven't just bought tickets to watch a gig.

We're part of something. And you see, I look out when I'm on the stage, and I see the same people. Like, they've come back. And it's just such a special day. And so I'm tomorrow going, we've got a big meeting tomorrow about, next year.

It's already an ocean. It's happening. Yeah. I was listening to Virgin this morning. Chris, he's already selling tickets for Carfest. I was like, right, girls, we need to get on it. We need to do, I just follow him and do what he does. But how wonderful, though, that you're celebrating life and you're celebrating friendship.

And I know you've got loads. There's so many, we've got mutual friends and Lee and so many others who just loved her and love what Flagstock is all about and celebrating life. And that's in your, I'm coming back to your books. There aren't. At the minute I start reading your books, I go into that place. And there are some books, I'm dreadful. I was like, this as a child as well. I'll open a book.

And if it's four pages in, I go, I don't want her. Yours within the first three lines. And yesterday, my eldest daughter came in. And she was like, Mom, Mom, Mom. I went, Shish. She went, what? I'm in Dornow Porter World. Go.

She went, oh, can I? Because she's there. she takes the books on. And this morning I went, here we go. It's honey at least for you. And she just went, oh, can I go into Dawnorne Portalland?

She's 23. And so she... That's right bang on for her then. And I said, this book, you are going to get this. But it's... Everything about your new book screams all of us.

There's us there. It's like you know us all. How do you know us all so well? Well, I guess because I'm writing honestly about my own experiences. So what is really nice about writing books in first person is that you, we all, you know, I was thinking inside someone's mind there is so much. We see, they give us 10% of themselves at all times probably.

And the stuff that's going on in your head would, you know, would blow our minds if we could hear it. When you write a novel and you're inside someone's head, you get to go into the deep corners and actually like get into how someone's thinking. So you hear the things that they shouldn't say and the thoughts they shouldn't have and all that kind of stuff. And I think that's maybe why a reader is pulled in in that way because you're inside someone's head.

But it's that fast with you. Oh, that's great. That's so much of the year. How do you do it? Do you write it knowing that? I mean, it is an extraordinary talent. It's very, very rare. I mean, I have to go into a book for a few people.

And I love reading. And I always have done. But I have to go in for a bit and then I'll think about it. I don't, it's within the first two lines I got this book. And I was there and I was locked in. Oh, I'm so pleased. I do, I do that. My first line is always like, I work as much on that first line as I do about most other parts of the book.

Like it's really important because I'm the same as you. I need to be locked in really quickly. Otherwise, life's a bit too short. And I do, I used to always like plow through a book even if I wasn't enjoying it, but I don't do that anymore. So I need you to grip me in the first page or it's not going to work out. So I'm very aware of that as well. There's one book that everybody says is the same thing. Everybody was mad about it.

It's not your book. And everybody, have you read that? You read it? Oh, I'm going to the island where it was set. And everybody, and I tried about 20 times. Which was at the beach? No, it was Captain Corelli's Mandolin. Couldn't do it.

When people say to me, oh, it's a great book, but it really kicks in about halfway through. No. Well, it should have kicked in on the first page, shouldn't it? Yeah, the first line, as you do. I love that you really think about that. So do you go back? So do you start with that first line? Or do you go back to that first line at the very end?

I cannot start the book until I've written that first line and I'm happy with it. And it's always a sticking point. And if I'm really struggling with something, my editor will always say, just move forward and write a scene that you know. I'm like, nope, that first page has to be, it has to work. And then after I've written the first page, which I think in the history of writing fiction, that first page has been as is from the day that I've moved on, it's never been edited.

Then as soon as I'm on a few pages, I'll do the kind of brain fart manuscript, which is when you just like get to the end of the story. And it's written terribly. And if anyone ever read it, you would die of shame. But that, with that perfect first page, as far as I think it is anyway. And only then can I move on.

And I'll read, I'll write it, reread it, rewrite it, rewrite it, reread it, do that. And then I'm happy and then the rest of the book will come. But it's such a sticking point. So it's really nice to hear that it's worth it. Oh, my goodness. It really is. But it's with all your books you've done it.

Oh, good. So you've worked that way with. all the books as well. With my book so lucky, I remember, I love that book. I was thinking this morning, if I was like, which one's my favourite and I do think it's so lucky? I think I just... But your new one is, you know, you've got something really, really special with Honeybeats. I think it's the same. It's there in my Dornow Porter list of favourite books. There's no one I didn't like, but if I had to put them in order, I actually think your new one might. Oh my God, that gave me goosebumps. I think it might be my face. I'm just heading it.

into like the early parts of this month of book launch and I've got like fear. Of course you have. And so that is just so lovely to hear. Thank you so much. I think it might be my favourite. Oh my goodness me. No, it's...

That's great to hear. Thank you, darling. I really kept... If I was a musical instrument, it kept going, don't, bang, on the stairs. And also you've got a daughter at that kind of age as well, so I'm sure that that kind of resonated with you. My younger one also wants it afterwards,

because the way we were both behaviour. moving over it. My 17-year-old was like, can I, can have a nose? And my oldest mom, and nose, my, no. They don't actually speak like that. I do that. Every radio show, they speak like, but they don't. They're not really like that. But they love their books as well, which I'm so, and you're passionate about books, aren't you? I really am. And I, you know, trying to allow my kids to discover reading naturally without being pushy, because if I've learned one thing about parenting is you can't force anything. You know, I thought we, I thought we were enjoying guitar lessons and we're not. So we're letting that go and I realize I can force him to

do it, but then he'll just learn to hate guitar. So the thing with reading is I'm trying to be the same kind of relaxed, but my nine-year-old loves it. My seven-year-old is still, you know, he had to take a book in for his first day of school today. It's a new teacher, she said, just bring any book in that they would like to share. And he's taken a hundred, what's called something, 100 best farts. Fabulous. It's a book. No, the 100 funniest farts. Love it. I say, Sarah this morning. Hi, yes, I'm Dawn of Valentine's mom. I'm sorry. I'm just so sorry. I know, but I love that

because it's an excitement about a book. It doesn't matter what's in the book. With both the girls, I didn't want bookshelves. I had books on the floor. So when they crawled around and when they walked around, there were just books on the floor in their room

and so they could just, it worked with the oldest one. The youngest one, she nodded as mad. She would love when she was younger. She loved a book about farts. Yeah, you know what? What I realised about myself as well, I didn't really read as a teenager.

I wasn't massively into reading. I was far too busy, like writing notes, sneaking out of school, going down to the boys' school. That, I wasn't... Did you get into the boys' school? Did you just stand that side? I waited outside until they came out and snogged me.

Most Fridays. You sound like you're at... Here, boys! Throwing stones up at the English club. But no, I wasn't a huge reader at all. There were a few books that I read that were, like, transformative, but I wasn't hugely into it, And it's something that I kind of really got into in my 20s, lost a bit in my early 30s with, you know, just distraction of working in TV and husbands and babies.

And then in the last... Husband. Yes. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. But it's... And I always kind of read, but, you know, casually, now in the last, like, five years, it's like an obsession.

I get... I have to have to have a huge pile by my bed. I've got a huge pile on my bed. I've got a huge pile on my desk. I've got a pile in the kitchen that I wake up in the morning and read those. You do one book at a time or do you ever go to? If a book's totally blowing my mind, it's one and I'll just get it done. But very often I've got a kitchen book, a bedroom book, an office book, a book on my phone.

Wow. Yeah. And I just read all the time. So I can't get enough. So I don't really watch TV anymore. Very, very rarely. Is that why you don't know. It's why you don't know.

It's also why I don't have to turn it on. Very rarely. watch TV. Chris and I might get into the occasional show, but not very often, because I think what I feel a bit like I'm making up for lost time with reading. Do you still enjoy that? I mean, obviously your husband's in films and TV and things. So do you watch his things, I presume? Mostly, yes. Mostly. Yeah, well sometimes, I mean, we... Does he read your books? Do you watch his shows? He actually went away yesterday and he sent me a picture of the cat lady audio book from the airport. So only now, it came out two years ago. There's one show I've got to watch the second

series of his. But I do. I watch his things and I love his stuff. But we're very relaxed about that. Like, do you show him the book before it goes? Never. Never in a million years. My book is between me and my editor, possibly my agent, and no one else until I say it's finished. Does Chris read them afterwards? He just listens to the audio book. Oh, he listens to the audio book. He reads, he reads them when they're out anyways. They've got he own, because I hate proof coffees, which is probably what you read. Yeah, yes. Because there's, for me, that's, it's not finished. I changed so many things

that you probably wouldn't have noticed, but really just... Well, if you've changed anything, honestly, it's that good as a proof copy. Oh, that's so nice. It doesn't matter if you've... No, you can't change anything. Okay, no, it was minor stuff,

but stuff that I thought was important. Anyway, it's, um, so I want Chris to read the final, final. And the thing is about him, he's... If I'm ever stuck, if I'm ever at work and having an absolute, like, major writer's block meltdown, I can go home and we'll bash that out together.

But also, I'm very well, the fact with very different kinds of writers. And if you try and brainstorm with a very different kind of writer, you'll get sent down a tangent that isn't actually. And so you'll go, yes, got it. And then you'll get to work the next day. And I think, well, I don't know how to write that. Because that's not actually my thing.

And it's, so it's a bit dangerous. Useful when you really need it, but it's not, that's a much more likely to get to my destination by calling my editor and say I'm really struggling. That makes sense. But when you watch him do any of his things, do you give your opinion? So I was, he's just filmed a show in Ireland that he wrote and directed in and starred in and produced, which was a lot, with stars Christina Hendrix and Paddy Constine.

And when he was telling me about, I know, they're both brilliant. And when he was telling me about the script, I was, I just kind of become buddies with Christina Hendricks through something else. And I was, I think she's perfect for this part. And it ended up that she got passed in it, which was just an amazing thing. I loved it so much. I love getting involved in suggesting people for casting. I love doing that. Oh, casting is great.

Yeah, it's my favourite. But all your books, do you cast them for TV shows and films? I'm really glad to be asked about this. It's a strange thing. The Cowes was picked up for TV and I wrote the script and we all loved it, and that company's been pitching out for about a year and a half, and it just never got picked up. So that's been put to bed.

And that's fine. And I think the reason for that is, with shows like Sex and the City and now Bad Sisters and all these female ensemble shows, you just think how many are being pitched? More. More. You know?

We need more because then it's not enough. If you're at a streamer, you're probably being pitched 100 a day. It's fine that cows didn't make the cut on that. Now, the feedback that we've got from So Lucky and Cat Lady about my books is that they're just too quirky. What? But let me tell you why this is okay. Okay. But no, so lucky, I can visualize.

It's so visual. When I gave it to a casting agent that I know in LA, she said, you're going to have trouble casting this because no one wanted to be seen with thick body hair. And I was like, well, actually, I'm speaking. to a really well-known actress who said she'd love to play this part, but I just think there's always a resistance there with those kind of things. Anyway, this is what I said to my agent the other day because I kind of felt like I had to say it out loud. When I write a book, I love it so much. And I've created this piece of art that I can stand by and go, that's the best that I could do at that moment in my life. And I love it and it's different. And that story didn't exist until I wrote it. And that makes me so happy and proud. I put it on a shelf and people read it and my relationship with my readers is incredible and everything is good.

Everything is good. And then suddenly there's these conversations that come up which makes it suddenly the book's not good enough because it has to be a TV show or get turned into a film. And if it doesn't, then it's it wasn't good enough to do that.

Oh no, no, no, you didn't do that. But I just mean this one... That's how your head works. I had to kind of, my amazing agent, Adrian, I had to kind of say that to him the other day on how how it makes me feel when all we're talking about in our meetings is making a TV or film adaptation of my books

and I just needed to make it very clear that as my agent you go and do your thing and if it comes to me that's fine that's not a process I want anything to do with I created the piece of art that I'm having with if that's all it ever is that is enough for me. What's important to me

is that my publisher keeps giving me book deals so I can keep writing my books and if one day one of the men's up on screen that's lovely but it's not what I'm It's not what you're doing it for. It's not what I'm getting out of bed for. And once you've actually, like, I get a glimpse of the movie world. I'm in it.

I've got a husband who's in it. I'm in it. I can go and have all the fun, live that life and do that thing. My greatest fear is one of my beloved books being done badly. Yes. And I'm not saying it will never happen. It's just, it's not something where I'm like, oh. You don't write a book to say, this is a future film.

You're writing a book because you're writing a book. I'm writing the book. Yeah. And if that's how it will always exist for me. You write very visual, but you're a very visual person. Your flamboyant, I love that word. I love that word. But you're flamboyant and your fashion is important to you for all the right reasons, not for the wrong reasons.

And your books are like that. And your life, I feel like your life is like that. It is. We all know so much about your life. And yet, obviously we don't because when you close the door, it's you and the kids and Chris and your cats and your dogs and your daughter. Have you still got your daughter? I mean, I'll have him for 100 years, Gabby. sandwich.

So that's the life that you let us into, but you still close the door. You're still private, which I like that of you. You know, before I met Chris, I was just an open book. I wrote nonfiction, I was out there. And then when you get, you know, a partner who doesn't want that,

and then you get two kids that I protect so much, I don't want them out there at all, you're like, well, how can I, I grew up with Nora Ephron, I think women should share that helps other women. So how do I find that balance? of sharing and oversharing and being very open, whilst also not overexposing my family or, you know, the people I care about. That took a minute.

And you've done it? I think so, yeah. So I think I've been writing a very, very kind of, I write a blog on Patreon, which is, you know, it's behind a paywall, which is really nice, because you only get people who really care. A bit more kind of open on there, but it's very protected, and that stuff never goes like into the bigger, bigger sphere. But I found a way to share, find.

I finally worked it out to share myself without exposing my family. And that feels very safe and very nice. Thank you. My kids are almost getting to that age now and they're like, but why am I never on your Instagram page? Oh, really? They don't barely know what it is. And then when they're 12 and 13,

Mom, please don't want to be on them. Sometimes I feel bad because we're very strict about it. But, you know, at Sports Day a few months ago, the kids with the blue stickers, the parents have said they can't be in any of the photos. And so my kid just came out to me halfway through. and I was like, why do they keep telling me I can't be in the photos? And I said, it's really difficult for you to understand, but I just, I'd rather you weren't.

And, you know, because sometimes those photos are like billboards in your local town advertising for the school camp or somewhere or something like that. And I don't want photos of my kids out there. And so we're getting to that age now or I'm having to try and explain to them why. And they know that we're well known. And so that's, it's just saying, you can't be a part of that. It's, but we want you to, oh, it's very weird. You know what? I'll tell you what my mum said to me

because my dad worked for the BBC and I wanted to be a TV presenter since I was three and then when I started in the industry my member of my mum, some journalist said oh I'd love a picture of both of your parents we've got pictures of your dad and my mum said, you know what, you and your father have chosen this, I haven't.

And actually, so I, when the kids were little, I just said to them, you know what, I've chosen this, you haven't. If you choose this when you're older, then that's your choice. and they got it. So maybe just... Yeah, that's such a good point.

Flaxstock was the first time that I've ever... We've ever taken them to anything that they've ever seen me on a stage with a microphone on my hand, apart from karaoke at home. But, you know, that was the first time they'd ever definitely seen me

in any kind of work capacity. And because I control Flaxstock and I know that all the photographers are there, and they have to feed all their photos back through us, I could be very relaxed, knowing that I could just, you know, make sure those photos didn't go to press. The boys were on stage.

They came out with me. Gok Juan was DJing at the end and I just said to Valentine it's like 10 o'clock at night, latest he's ever been out he's kind of charged on donuts and I just said, baby, have fun and he just rocked out on the stage in front of like 6,000 people

no you couldn't see him but with his arms in the air and just as I'm... Olly Mears has just finished performing and I'm closing the night and then Art said to me, can I say something into the microphone? I was like, I guess so and he just went, it doesn't get better than this and I'm all going to cry.

Oh. He just totally blew me away because he's quite a cool, you know, it's quite a cool kid. He doesn't like say that kind of thing. And he just, he was overcome by it as well. And it was such a joyful experience. So I think we've got to now work out how do we include them whilst also protecting them? And that's the next, that's the next challenge, especially with living back here now.

It's like, how do we, how do we involve you? Because we, there is potential for wonderful times you've just got to be protected. And that's it. work out but it's tricky old world isn't it what a perfect way to to finish thank you my lovely thank you i love you so i love you even more