That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Donna Ashworth

Episode Date: November 25, 2025

Poet Donna Ashworth spreads joy through her words - and - wherever she goes. On the latest episode of Reasons To Be Joyful, Gaby chats to Donna about her poetry, believing in herself, moving to Scotland with no job, our human frequencies and much more... She also talks about making social media a nice place - and - shares with Gaby an object that brings her joy every single day. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's that Gabby Rosslin podcast, Gabby Rosslin podcast. Donna Ashworth, Joy. Joy, we, nobody owns joy, but we celebrate joy. How about that? I love that. Yeah. We can be custodians of it. Yes. Pass it on. is something that I've banned on about, oh, since I was little, because that's why I wanted to do Telly, because I wanted to make people feel joyful.

And joy is, for me, for you, feels like the next step from the stuff that you've been doing. Yeah, I think the sort of point of all, ultimately, is joy. But if you want to really feel joy, you have to become very good at feeling all of the other things as well. You have to feel your sadness in the same, not celebratory way, but with respect, the same amount of respect and all the feelings in between.

So I'm a huge believer in that the ultimate point is to be more joyful. But it's complicated what happens in the process in between, the space in between. Well, welcome to the joy world. This is reasons to be joyful after all, so we've got lots of reasons to be joyful. So go on, say it. How many books now? 12. 12.

A nice dozen. In only a very few years. Since 2020. I think my first one was self-published summer of 2020. Because of the pandemic. Because it was a pandemic poetry book and I thought, I'm going to do this. I'm going to take a little short. I just did it myself.

It was not very good, the book. Don't say that. Don't say that. I say that in a loving way. No, don't say. Don't ever say it in any way. because you did it and it

don't be so judgment yeah no I hear you you're right the poems and side stand up what I mean is the actual physical book because you don't know how to publish a book

unless you've you know you've studied it researched it so I just came at it from if I don't do it really quickly I'll never do it I'll talk myself out of it and also I thought lockdown was going to be over

it was over when I published it briefly and then who knew it was actually going to come back around several times over the next couple of years. I thought it would be forgotten lockdown. I don't think we're ever going to forget it really.

No, no. It's funny because even now I had an opportunity to read one of the poems from it this morning on radio and I didn't want to read it. You're with my Chrissy. With Chris, who's the just like yourself and such huge fans of you both.

Seeing you both on the same day is actually has blown my mind for the last couple weeks that I've known it's happening because I see you together in my mind I love Chrissy but we're talking about you talking about you

so you read it on I didn't read it I chose another one because I don't know about you but I can sometimes get quite a joke when I'm really reminded about the lockdown

detail in detail about the things that happened like the rainbows on the windows and the... We lost people that we knew it's quite traumatic a lot of people don't particularly want to be jolted back in there

with something that is quite impactful and it's world kindness day to day and I'm a huge believer and you've got a few seconds to impart a message what do you want people to take away and I wanted them to take away how the small kindnesses that we do every day are huge they're not they start small but they grow

the minute you put that kindness out it begins the ripple effect it radiates and even when you're asleep that kindness that you did earlier that day. Absolutely. It's still working. And it's resonating.

And it's contagious. People who, the person you were kind to is kind to someone else. And on it goes. So I wanted that to be the message. That's why I didn't read it. So the very first time when in lockdown and you did the poem and then everybody was saying your words, what had happened before that for you to get to that stage that suddenly all these years later and all these books later?

So I was a songwriter in my early 20s And I wrote a lot of songs and poems as a youngster And as is the way of life You don't do things like that As a hobby We're not encouraged to have hobbies When you're out there trying to make a living Hobbies are important

They bring joy But life takes over, doesn't it? So you're in that rap race I have to do something that will pay the bills And so on and so forth So I became, you know, wrapped up in a life that was very busy although I worked in magazines

for a few years which was creative and exciting in that way but you're not sort of creatively writing emotionally I was interviewing people and I was writing about fitness and fashion

and things like that which was lovely and then I think sort of mid-40s my husband and I we had bought a children's play centre when the kids were born and we thought it'll be

a nice family business we can all go to work together you know we had this really sort of white picket fence image that what a wonderful thing it will be to do and it was but these children play centres are seven days a week they only shut on christmas day a new year's day and they are full on you know the doors open at nine in the morning and the kids run in and it does not stop until but that's joyful it is joyful for them for them the sensory overloaded of it which I didn't anticipate and

you know back then was quite a lot for me it was 10,000 square feet it was a big place so we did enjoy it and we loved it and the kids came with us and they had their birthday part and that was lovely but about five years in I started to really feel

the need to be creative and mentally I think I was on a bit of a dip if you look back over your life you can kind of see the moments where your mental health is on a decline and maybe you're not doing enough to feed your soul and bring in the joy. And I definitely wasn't.

We were just working and looking after the kids. And I really wanted to reach out to more people and I wanted to have deeper conversations. And I wanted to write about things that were deep, but I didn't know how. And I didn't know, I didn't have the confidence to put my name to it or be bold about it. So I started a little blog and I was anonymous.

It was called ladies pass it on.com. and it was a place where women could come and chat and I loved it but out of that grew I still don't really quite know how it happened little bits of poetry started coming out in quotes and things like that and then at the pandemic hit and just as a pandemic hit I had been starting to write poetry

and it was the perfect storm we had to close the business it was the first thing to close children's play centres so we were we had no jobs we had no income My son had just been diagnosed with autism and we could not get him into school prior to the pandemic.

He was unable to do that. So everything was beginning to implode personally and then the world locked down and it felt like nothing's ever going to be the same again. And that was when I decided to move back to Scotland and I managed to persuade my husband to come. And it's the best thing we've ever done because my mum's there, my sister's there.

We have such a family unit and it's peaceful. Well, boys love it. It took a bit. Yeah. You know, there was a period where we thought, what have we done? And it wasn't easy trying to find a school for my son and all of that. It was a real scary time. But within about a year, it was clear that this was the best decision that we've ever made.

And I started writing more and more. And then we didn't have jobs. My husband pivoted and became a builder. And I pivoted and became an author. and I thought this would be really nice if I could make this work as an actual job and it's just gone from there and it's worked and I'm so grateful is the word.

That's a great word but you've made it happen. Do you know it's funny because I felt like it was a snowball that was moving without me really. And all I had to do was continue to be brave to show up. I felt like it was something bigger than me and it was a bit of an, you know, an opportunity a hand from up above

but I was terrified I was wrapped up in the hole Were you really? Oh gosh I was you know I was mid-40s and you know who am I to suddenly

decide that I can be a writer Who am I to suddenly decide that I can get up and speak in front of people that took years of hard work and hypnotherapy and all of that

I had to really cross the cringe and constantly face the fear and what I decided to do was be open about that every step of the way. So if I had to go and speak somewhere for the first time, I would share that and say, how am I going to do this? I'm terrified, but I'm going to do it and, you know, I'll write about it. So I felt like I just had to keep being brave

and everything else has felt quite organic. So when you write, there's a lot that you write about, I get the feeling that you're always thinking of others as well, which is lovely. But it's deeply personal. Does that ever, is there ever a time where you sort of want to,

I can't think, that not be as personal? I've not ever been very good at that. And so I'm actually on the spectrum as well. I'm neurodiverse, so I realise now that a lot of my life was spent creating a personality that would pass, muster.

People would believe and I would be, normal and everybody would be happy with me. Who wants to be normal? Who wants to be normal? So a lot of masking was going on. And the thing about these masks is, you know, you wear them, they protect you, but eventually they suffocate you.

And so it was a real ripping off of the mask, the poetry. And I call it the great unraveling. Now, whenever I have unraveled, it's happened a few times in my life. There is an element of which you join in and you unpick the first stitch but then it's out of your hands this was always meant to happen

the unraveling occurs everything that you were no longer meant to carry leaves and I know it happens to everybody because I see it I see these big life shifts where people say everything fell apart but it was unpicked for a reason it became it was a lovely suit

at one point and it became a cage became a straight jacket and so the great unraveling happened and I have never been able to stop oversharing since but I'm also a huge believer that oversharing is a love language Yeah, I know absolutely not knocking you for it

No, I just think sometimes do you ever sit back and think Ooh, I can't believe I just shared that Yeah, all the time Oh, you do, that's interesting And I try not to sort of judge what I've said But I'll come off an event or radio as I did this morning And I'll go, why did I think it was a good idea to do Palmier's accent?

on Chris Evans' radio show. Why did I do that? And then I'll say, stop, Donna. Because there's, you know, you choose to, it's all from the good of your heart. Because you, you know, and the one thing, the one resounding thing that's come out in the last five years

of constantly writing poetry every day is that I'm learning about myself so much. I'm being so much easier on myself now than I ever have been unkinder. What have you learned? Well, these thoughts that we have, you know, you wake up. up every day. And 97% of your thoughts are the same as they were yesterday. And the actions that

you undertake are actually carried out by your body. Your brain's not even in control. You're living in the past. It's muscle memory. You do exactly the same thing that you did yesterday. So each day we're living in the past. We're not actually waking up in the morning and resetting and being in the present. Ah, that's my belief. I believe in living in the moment. The moment. So there is a little filter in your brain called the RAS filter RAS. And it waits for you to wake up. It takes your first start a half a dozen thoughts and then that's the thoughts. That's what it does for the rest of the day. So it will repeat all of that for you. In my book, this is really weird. Is it really? Because I talk about waking up in the morning and the very first thing you do is popping a

smile on your face because it tells the brain that everything's okay. It does. Even if that, just for that moment. And if you've got... some really awful things which a lot of people have and you were telling me heartbreaking stories before we came on air. You know, even in that, when you've got that, just for that second your brain has that hit of

feeling a little bit. So it literally copies and pasts those thoughts for the rest of the day and that's what it looks for. So if you wake up and you go I've got no money and I'm really, you know, this is what's happening nobody likes me. Your brain goes oh okay we're doing this today and it seeks

it out. And so when you find that out, you're never doing that again, are you? You literally, you wake up in the morning and you go, ah, look at that view. Aren't my curtains lovely? I'm very grateful for this bed. Oh, I slept, you know, really well. And you just set, you know, the radio station. You choose your radio station for the day. We're doing positive FM. And I'm always saying that it's not about sweeping the negative under. It's the opposite. You know, these positive people like yourself. They're not ignoring the tragedies

and the negatives of this world that, you know, they've been there all the time. They go there all the time to the mind at the coal face of rock bottom and they found this little nugget of gold and they bring it back up

and they share it with you. So if a positive person shines... But it's about reframing. It's reframing all the time. It's very interesting. I was talking to somebody the day who's going through some awful, awful things. Really, really, really,

sad and difficult very very difficult and I said instead of always saying um but what if this happens you know there's a percentage that that might happen say why don't you say but out loud say I know that I'm going to succeed at that yeah and they say well I can't do that I said why because it's embarrassing yeah so throw the embarrassment yeah cross the cringe I'm always saying it everything good is on the other side of cringe across the river of cringe it might seem trivial it might seem woo-woo it might seem

you know too sweet but it works and it's real gratitude works have you done that have you done that yes yeah but I continue to do it you're never quite set in stone it's a constant work in progress the reframing for me is all day every day and you know it's every single thought that I have what's the best it could happen not what's the worst it could happen

you know, look around me right now what are five amazing things that I can see look at these people over the sunshine yeah, they're clearly in love that's a mum and a daughter you know these are things I'm starting to look for now because what you seek you find well it's like it's I would say to people

with when they get angry when somebody's going slowly in the car or somebody ever takes them I say you don't know what's happening in their life so that person might be rushing because maybe they're going to have a baby maybe somebody is very ill Whatever it is, instead of thinking,

Oh, a pastor, get out of my way, think, okay, I'll let you through. 100%. And so you make these choices all day long and all night long. And sometimes I can feel myself deliberately not doing it. And I will allow myself a short period of time to be, and do a bit of wallow in because it's fun. That's normal. That's normal.

But I'm on, you know, I'm on watch with it. I'm like, right, Donnie, you've got half an hour. So does this all feel, pinch me moment with the books and with the social media and with people knowing who you are and the fame. I'm doing, you know, air quotes because that

word, it's just silly. Yeah. But does it all feel like what the hell is happening? It just feels like a giant gift from above. And I made a decision right from the start. There was two big decisions that I made is that I wouldn't edit the work that I did.

It comes as a message. It's about the message. It's not about the language or how good the poetry is, none of that. What will the person reading this get? That's what it's about. So it goes straight out. It's always giving. And then that way... Yeah, I don't critique it. I don't criticise it. Because once you start editing things,

you shave and you shave and you shave until what's left is probably quite similar. So you mean literally you don't edit your poems? No, when they go in the book, they'll be checked for spelling mistakes and things like that. But I don't rewrite or think that's not good enough or I'll try that again or anything like that.

Occasionally I have, but only for really good reasons. Somebody's asked for it to be, you know, for a wedding or something and I've maybe gone, but not for, to make it better. Because we don't really know what it is that makes our work good. It's like, I recently watched something about people who have in plastic surgery done and they've had their upper eyes taken away. And it's been...

Their upper eyes taken away? Yeah, bear with me on this because I've really... You don't mean taken away? You mean altered? Yeah. Not taken away. They haven't had the eyes. taken away. Well, they get the skin taken away.

Yes, yeah. The skin taken away, not the eyelid. It turned out to be the thing that one of their things that was making them super attractive and it completely changed their face. And it's all over the place at the moment and it just really interests me because you wouldn't think your saggy eyelids were providing you any kind of attractiveness. But we don't know what it is about anything or anyone that makes it beautiful to the eye of the beholder. And your words are the same. If you say, start critiquing it. You're coming from a place of imposter syndrome or you're not feeling great that day or you think you need to be more like someone else. You might be shaving

off the bit that made it. What's special? Absolutely. So that was one thing that I said that I wouldn't do. And the second thing was that I'm not on a journey to a destination. There is no destination. I've spent my whole life being on the road to somewhere and not being on the journey itself. So I decided that whatever was... Living in the moment. I would enjoy every single piece of the journey without thinking, where is this going? What's the big picture? I've not been doing that. So I'm having a blast. Being here today has pinch me. Excuse me. Please, will you read a poem? Just open it on any page and see. Have you planned one? Well, that one was, the ribbon was on it. So shall we choose a different one?

You know, whatever. Why don't you flip? Go on. Why don't you do that? And I'll say stop. So start again. That was a very sad one and I don't know. Oh, no, no, no.

You can know. It's whatever we stop at. This one is called Right Now. What if you get to the end of your life? And you suddenly make the connection that you were supposed to enjoy it. That you were supposed to let go and live, make stories to pass on because material possessions don't bring half as much joy. as the memories of love that you leave?

What if you realise too late that your cellulite and tummy rolls were adorable, actually, and should never, ever have been enough to stop you having fun? What if your last thoughts were regrets for not enjoying this ride and giving it all that you had? What if you stop that from happening? Right here, right now, what if?

Perfect. Absolutely perfect because that's exactly what we've just been talking about. There is, you know, it's very interesting when a journalist asks questions, very often they say, you know, guilty pleasures or any regrets. And I always say, no, because I've learned from them. Yeah. And if you go back and change things that you could, you know, mark down those regrets, you wouldn't be where you are right now and who you are right now. There were things that maybe you wish you had done Don't ever regret things that you have done I have no regrets I was recently asked that

And I thought I don't want to be the person who says Oh I have no regrets But I genuinely don't Because each one of them was a lesson And valuable You know you're so many versions of yourself In this life I think we kind of believe

That we're a child, a teenager An adult then an old person But actually I think there's like 30 or versions of you. Oh, I just stayed 33 all the time. I'm not changing my age. It's interesting that, I mean, the people that you've now, that you now know, the people you mix with, the events that you do, do you think, if you think back, do you think I knew that was going to happen? No, I didn't know. Really? Anything was going to happen. But I had a huge feeling that something there we go big would come if I could unravel the mask and this you know and if I could only access

I had decided that my 50s and my 60s were going to be amazing because I've decided that they're going to be and so I'm the only person that I'm aware of who's been desperate to turn 50 I turned 50 in April because my 40s were so much better than my 30s and so on and you just get to a stage where you go wait a minute wait a minute none of this matters this is not important important. It's the small things that are important. Literally, it's not cliche, it's not twee. It's literally true. All of the tiny things that you do and think every day are the huge things. That's right. If I may, just pick up on what you just said, because there are a lot of people when I, I mean, we feel the same. So a lot of people when I go on about joy and everything,

they just go, oh, isn't it a bit trite? Isn't it a bit twee? And I go, it might be to you. but it works we know it works and we've tried it you know we've literally been down at the coalface and used it and these little reframing things they're now coming forward with the science so I've become obsessed with the science I went on a Joe Dispenza retreat this year

in Mexico and he studies your thoughts that your thoughts are electric they literally instruct every single thing that happens in your body so this is no longer woo-woo you can think yourself well you can think yourself happy we have the science now we can measure every single effect that every thought has and every emotion creates a chemical

so I love now collating the science together and I was lucky enough to meet Ruby Wax last week and she gave me her book and I am loving it because it's called How to Be Human and she's got such a funny, witty way of putting all of that you know science and she's written this book with a monk and a neuroscientist so you've got all the aspects of it and once you see the science you can

call it trite all you like but it works and it's real and you know look at the people who are doing it and look at their quality of life but it's very interesting I mean I was reading something about you know human frequencies and being on a higher frequency and it was being framed as something so simple and I love this. It was, if you live on a, if you're on a higher frequency and higher energy, that a baby in a pram will always look, turn their head to you and smile. And I just thought that was such a simple thing.

And it's one of, I now, I mean, there's certain things that I'll find and I'll just then, I'll ask people, I'll be with friends. To me, friends are so important. Yeah. And I've got beautiful, wonderful friends. And I, so I spoke to a friend of mine who, we always have these sort of conversations

and I said do babies turn their faces and smile at you and they said yes that's so weird we always giggle about that my husband and I and then called another friend of mine and I said do babies always smile at you and they said I don't look at babies yeah and it was

it was there's no wrong or right but it was very interesting learning about where people are you know there at a higher frequency and I love that so do I I love it. And I love finding out because you'll mention the word frequency and some people will go, oh, frequency.

But we can't see frequency and we can't hear it, but we can measure it. We know it exists. We know that you are radiating right now an electromagnetic field that's touching mine. And everybody does? Everybody does and we can measure it. And there's this experiment where they take a photograph of a leaf and it's electromagnetic field and you can see it. And then they cut the leaf in half, they remove...

half of the leaf and for a very long time afterwards the full field remains so your energy literally continues on when you are not even... And a lot of people say that about whether you believe or you don't believe and we're not going to get into all of that

but past lives and spiritual energy and all the rest of it a lot of people say they use that example of the leaf they say when you leave your energy is still there and so back to the babies and the frequency We cannot see frequency. Our eyes will not show us it. But if our eyes were different,

if our brain was more developed, we would be able to see how everything vibrates. And you would be able to see people's frequency, like the ready break advert, but you would see it moving, you would be able to see it. And just because our eyes can't see it, much like Wi-Fi works completely invisibly,

you know, you put a code in your phone and it connects by frequency to a tower. And we believe that. but we don't believe that a baby can sense a higher frequency through your brain which is far more evolved than a phone so it's fascinating and I love that more and more of this is coming to life and I love it's being talked about because if we were all talk...

It's not woo-woo people don't go all that woo-woo people are now talking about it all it's woo-woo is only science we don't have the facts for yet magic is only science we haven't yet discovered you know magic exists We would have thought that, oh yeah, it definitely exists. Especially on Saturday mornings on Magic Radio. That's the whole other conversation.

Definitely. Magic does exist. And it doesn't matter that we don't know how it works. No. You have to have faith and hope because they're magic in themselves, because they're magnetically attracting. If you're telling yourself through the electricity or your thoughts which exist because they're electric,

so they're real, if you're constantly thinking hopeful things and, you know, magical things, and faithful things and believing it's going to be okay then that's what you're magnetically attracting just like the Wi-Fi tower on your phone I love it it's just it is wonderful

and if we were taught more of it in schools and things like that how your brain actually works and make young people feel it doesn't matter if you feel things feelings are good feelings are chemical we literally need chemicals

but you've done I mean I was reading all about you and what you done for poetry because a lot of people were at school and they had to learn poems, I wrote, I don't want to do poetry. Oh, not poetry. Oh, God, poem. Yeah, it's not rock and roll, is it? But what's happened is you've elevated the word and the actual, the poem. It's incredible that suddenly people say, oh, poet, oh, that's a poem.

You don't just have to have a rhyming couplet and... Yes. I didn't mean to. I didn't even particularly think about poetry when I first started. I thought it, I just called it words. So the front of life that you call it words. Yeah, we just say words for comfort and light. Because again, I wanted to take the pressure off what kind of a poem is this. I don't know. The message comes to me. Sometimes it rhymes. Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it looks like a poem. Sometimes it's just prose. And I don't stop to think about it. So poetry can be a device of substance. like you say and a lot of us were put off it at school but really it's a vessel for deeper conversation

when your brain sees a poem on a page or on Instagram it recognises how it looks it knows you're going to receive an emotional message so your brain goes ah I'll open my heart and take this in

it doesn't read it like an instruction manual from your toaster you know it knows what it's going to be and so I love that Do you read instruction manuals never do never no I am allergic

to them. If you have to put something together if you have... Instinct. Yeah, I don't, you know, the IKEA manual. No, thank you very much. No. And sadly, my husband doesn't either. Because I think... But you said he's a builder. I think relationships need one person who's good with

an instructions manual and one who isn't and we are just both completely rubbish. So yeah, everything's done on a wing and a prayer. He's a very good builder though. She says looking through the glass because he's out there. Just don't lean on that. No, he's wonderful

But a lot of it is intuitive and instinctive And he's an audible learner So he has to listen to learn I don't know how I learn I love but I know I'm the same Everything's visual though Because it's TV And it's always visual and sound

I think I need the visual and the audio As well together Because if I'm just listening I don't know what I think I like it all Do you? But if you listen then you can create pictures It's like reading a book

reading a book. Can you create pictures in your mind when you do it? Always. I can't. Isn't it funny? Apparently it's a 50-50 split of people who can... That's also that weirdly the person I was talking about, we always do that thing about can you visualize things and she can't visualise things. Can you not visualise things? There are certain things that I can visualise. I can feel the things, really feel them. But my mum and my husband will walk in me into an empty barn and say, right, so you just have to imagine. No, I can't do it. And they're seeing, and this is going to be doing.

I can't do it. I can't do it. I just can't build it in my mind visually. If you close your eyes now, and I was to give you a picture to see, can you do it? Okay, there is a... Just walked in now is a grey horse with a pink panda sitting on top of it.

See, I can visualise it totally. No, I can't. When I start to build one part of it, other parts gone, so I can't see the feel. Oh, I've got really vivid imagination. I think that's why I write so much because I don't think

I'm building the picture visually. Because a lot of people, so if you read a novel, can you picture the people in it? I can feel it. I'm in it. I'm completely invested. I'm emotionally attached. I can picture elements of it is all I can

say. But I can't build. You know, you can teach yourself to do it. You can teach it, yeah. And maybe I'll do that. So let's talk social media as well because that's a big part of what you do. We had, Case Kenny was on this show. I love his notes. I just think he's brilliant.

Lewis Howes. So all of these people who put stuff on Instagram and just these wonderful quotes. And our lovely Vex King, who I know, he's been on this couple of times. And there's wonderful quotes, wonderful. poems, whatever you want to go. Words, like you said, words. It's very impactful. It is. It is. It can really change your day. And more than it can change your day, it can change the whole trajectory of your journey and your life.

And I know that because the things that I keep along the way are people's messages. Oh, how lovely. Because that's what it's all about. That's so nice. It's the important thing, isn't it? I always wanted to create words that would be used every day, not just for a few not just for a wedding or, you know, something big. But I like the help every day.

So it's a random page. You open this book randomly. Every day you get a message. And I always say the book knows exactly what you need that day. And it works. So sometimes I'll go on social media and say, right, who wants a random page? And they comment below and I give them a random page. And it's always the page that everybody didn't know they needed or that's exactly what I needed to reframe today.

And that is the total joy of it for me Because these small words in the right order at the right time There's nothing that they can't achieve They can really do so much For this is reasons to be joyful And we always ask everybody I don't know if you were asked to bring in something That brings you joy

Yeah But please could you, I never know what it is It always surprises me Please could you tell me what it is that brings you joy Well you're already looking at it It's around my neck Your necklace Yes

It's gorgeous Do you know what I've looked at it a lot It's fabulous So it's gold heart For people Okay so people listening It's a chunky gold chain

With a gold heart With lovely little sort of spurs off it Like starbursts doesn't it And a red heart That's on top of the gold one And I can change the heart So I have a green one

And I have a light one as well And some of the story of the necklace So this was gifted to me by a woman who I have a huge crush on much like yourself Gabby and I do believe that that is the thing that women should be doing in this world going around

falling in love with each other because we're wonderful beings and supporting each other and supporting it and this was gifted to me by Holly Tucker from Holly and Coe who I think is I just think she's wonderful

and I spoke at her congregation of inspiration which was incredible and she gifted me this made by her friend and it's called Petrula necklaces Petrula Jewelery

And I love it because when I touch it, which I do a lot, because I'm quite sensory, I need a fidget. It immediately brings me mindfulness, because I remember it hold the heart. It then immediately opens my heart, which I've been doing a lot of meditation on heart coherence with your brain. And you open your heart, you open your brain, you sink the two, it's joyful, the feeling is immense. So it's mindfulness for me. It helps me when I'm in a nervous situation or I need reminding what it's all. all about but also it attracts so many beautiful messages from people in real life from strangers or online people will say to me oh my goodness I love your necklace and you're then having a

conversation with a stranger I loved it I love conversations isn't it the best thing the complimenting of a stranger we're talking its world kindness day to day is the most powerful thing you can do because you you watch that person's whole magnetic field radio joy in that moment. I love doing it. I love your coat. I love, oh, your hair looks good. Yes. Total strangers think, whoa, thank you. And then they go away and they might do it or they might change the way they feel that day or the way they think. So it brings so much of that my way. Oh, is that lovely? Everybody makes me. And that it was a gift as well and it's now means so much. And she didn't know that it was going to affect you so much. No, but I never take it off. I rarely have one other

necklace made by another beautiful woman that's a yellow for my poem yellow. which I adore, and that is the same. It attracts the same amount, but this one, yeah, it's just, it just keeps me in the message of what it's all about. It's all about love at the end of the day. Like you say, you're in the traffic, you're getting angry, you're getting caught up in your ego and your life and you suddenly go. It doesn't matter.

How wonderful. Love matters, so this is the thing. Oh, keep spreading your joy and thank you so much. It's always lovely to see you. And you too. Really lovely. You spread so much joy. And you share so many of these.

There we go. We'll just like to, we'll be joy spreaders. Yes, we're joy spreaders together. So lovely to chat you. Thank you, Donna. You too. Thanks, Gabby.