That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Dr Amir Khan

Episode Date: June 13, 2022

In this episode Gaby chats with Dr Amir Khan. He talks about his experience being the TV doctor on shows such as ITV’s 'Good Morning Britain', 'Lorraine' and Channel 5's 'GPs: Behind Closed Doors'. He tells Gaby how his priority will always be working as a busy NHS doctor and they discus his book 'The Doctor Will See You Now: The Highs and Lows of My Life as an NHS GP', which is a Sunday Times bestseller. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to that Gabby Rosen podcast, part of the ACAST Creator Network. This week, I'm joined by Dr. Amir Khan, best known for being the TV doctor on ITV's Good Morning Britain, Lorraine and GPs behind closed doors on Channel 5. He's a Sunday Times bestselling author and he works with many animal and nature charities. But most importantly, he is a busy NHS doctor. He cares so hugely for everyone. He is one of the kindest and most compassionate men I have ever met. He speaks his mind and throughout the pandemic he was there for us all. I do hope you enjoy listening.

He has so much to teach us all. Please can I ask you a favour? Would you mind following and subscribing please by clicking the follow or subscribe button? This is completely and utterly free by the way. And you can also rate and review on Apple Podcasts, which is the purple app on your iPhone or iPhone. iPad. Simply scroll down to the bottom of all of the episodes. I know there have been quite a few now. And you'll see the stars where you can tap and rate and also please write a review. Thank you so much.

Hear me the news. I got a bad case. I love it. In fact, everybody loves you, Amaya. I know, well, I'm not sure about that, Gabby, but every time I hear that song, it reminds me of you. Because every time we see each other, right, you sing it at me. It's gorgeous. I love it. But it's because So we've known each other Since we did our sleep special Then you were GPs behind closed doors And we did a sleep special for Channel 5

Since then, excuse me Sunday Times best selling author Yeah Doctor on television All round Love of everybody's life If I mention your name now Do you know the amount of people that's go

This is the reaction So they'll say oh, do you know Dr. Amir? Yeah, he's a friend of mine. Oh. Oh, I love him. Literally, I don't think I've ever worked with anybody that gets that reaction. You know, Chris Evans, people say, did you ever shag him?

The answer is, no, I never did. Nobody's asked me that about you. But, you know, it's all sorts of things, they say. But with you, it's always. Very wholesome. Oh, yeah. They love you. Well, you know what? I find, and it is so nice to get that reaction, honestly, I'm so, so grateful.

And I feel like I have a certain type of person who likes or follows me on social media. And it's women over a certain age. And they can't decide whether they want to mother me or shag me. It's probably both. It's both. That's a five I get. That is so brilliant. See, the wonderful thing about you is, so you give. So you're a natural giver. And obviously we're going to go back to, you know, becoming a doctor and all of those things. And your amazing book, but you're a giver because you not only care about people, you're extraordinary with animals. I know how much you love animals. I'm lucky enough to have actually been in your house and I've met your hedgehogs.

You have, yes. But also your love of nature, your love of the planet, you are a giver. Were you always like this as a child? I definitely had a love for nature as a child. And I remember very clearly, you know, when I was young in school, in primary school in particular, and we were studying, or studying, as you do with you, you're in private school. That wasn't so much. Looking at picture books of kind of like woodland creatures.

And I remember this really clearly, actually. Looking at woodland creatures and looking at badgers and foxes and hedgehogs and thinking, I've never ever seen one of these things in my life. And I live, they keep telling me in this book that they're here in this country. And I lived in inner city, Bradford, and we just didn't get, we've got rats and that was about it. And so, so looking at that, I just felt very disconnected. And I would go home and my dad was really into nature as well. So we used to sit down and watch wildlife documentaries on the BBC.

And that was the way we connected. And he was very unwell, my dad, for quite a long time. So he couldn't really take us out. So when I would go out on my bike and things like that, I would come back and tell him about what I'd see. And I think that kind of started off my passion for nature. And that idea that I couldn't see those creatures in those picture books that everybody told me were right here on our doorstep.

That's all I kept being told. I said, no, they're not. because they're not here for us, you know, as inner city children. And so I've always remembered that. And I think now, you know, because I work in Bradford in a very inner city practice, I think, you know, part of the work I do with regards to some of the charities I work with is about getting access to green spaces in inner city areas, rather than them going out to find them like I had to do.

We want to bring them into the inner city areas so they can get their health. health benefits that, you know, people who can afford to live in the suburbs get. Oh, see, that's that that was, that's so important. I mean, I think, I think we all take for granted. I'm very lucky I live in quite a green part of London and London is very diverse and, you know, we have, you know, extremes of everything here in London, but there are a lot of green spaces. And I'm lucky enough to have worked in Bradford for, um, on and off for a year and a half. And I still stand by and say the most welcoming people I think I've ever, ever met. But I was quite struck by how dense population and no green spaces at all.

Yeah. Bradford actually has the average youngest population in the UK. Really? Yeah. Yeah. And it's a really interesting city from a lot of points of view, really. It has one of the, it sounds awful, but it has one of the most polluted air quality indicators in the UK, just because of the way the city is situated within a valley and the way air moves. And also it has one of the most densely populated areas, city centres in the UK as well and some of the outskirts. So all of that lends itself to really poor health outcomes. And that's just not fair, I think. And so we've got to do something about it.

And it's not just Bradford, there are a lot of. cities and towns around the UK that kind of fall into that category. And we've got to kind of champion better health through, you know, through, you know, better funding, but also air quality, green spaces, all of that kind of stuff, for those inner city people. Because life expectancy is lower when you live in inner city areas. You know, you've got higher risk of developing certain cancers, being at risk of mental health conditions, poorer pregnancy outcomes, all because of poor air quality. And so, you know, all of this thing that I talk about with nature and wildlife and biodiversity lends itself. It's just better for everyone. And I think, you know, when you talk about it,

talk about it, and it seems so simple. But it's just not being done for those people. And I think that's why I keep talking about it. Well, keep shouting about it. I think that's so important. The other thing is, of course, now we will, I promise we're going to get to the book. But now you're a TV doctor and you're a TV doctor on ITV, on Lorraine and on GMB. And because you're on ITV, you're allowed an opinion. And I mean, of course on the BBC you are as well, but they, you know, it's very important that we see both sides of the story. But what is really encouraging to hear is you're very positive, very positive. especially through the past 18 months, coming up to two years of an extremely extraordinary time that we've all lived through throughout the world.

And goodness knows what's going to happen next. I just hope for good things, because that's me. I like to wave a magic wand. But throughout all of that, you've been very outspoken and yet also remaining positive. Yeah. That's quite a knack. Well, I think, I mean, there are some positive sides to, you know, what's happened, I guess. But you have to be honest, I think, about what, as a doctor, I think you've got to be really honest.

And your integrity is really, really the most important thing for me, it certainly is. And when you're seeing governments and policy makers getting it wrong, several times over, making the same mistake. you know, going for popularity over the right call. And I understand they have to balance not just health, but the economy. But the two are so intrinsically linked. You know, you can't have poorly people and run, you know, a successful economy. And, you know, the delays in decision making, the poor decision making, you know, certainly around things like care homes, delays in closing borders to certain countries,

has cost lives. And I don't want to be political one way or another. You've just got to call out a wrong decision where there's a wrong decision. And that cost lives. And I saw what that did to my patients. And I continue to see what it does to my patients. And I am lucky in that ITV allow me to say all of this stuff. And I think it's important because, you know, I'm not a presenter.

I'm not a political commentator. I don't have to be impartial. I just have to tell the truth. And that is my truth. That's what I see. But on the flip side of things, you know, the vaccinations have been a success. And the procurement of those vaccinations were down to the government. You've got to be honest about that.

I've got to be honest about it. The distribution and the administration is down to the NHS. And that's why they've been such a success. And I've been lucky enough to be involved in the vaccination program since the start of this year. And that has been a real positive. And going out to care homes, going out to homes with those with learning disabilities has been a challenge. But it was really, really rewarding. And I don't think you get that feeling in any other job, really.

You know, when you go out, you've vaccinated a whole care home. And that means they're one step closer to seeing their loved ones. It's just a phenomenal feeling. And I think sharing those experiences has been really important for me as well. It is amazing what you and your colleagues have done. And that's, you know, amazing is the wrong word. I'm going to, that's a complete understatement. You can't overstate the work that the everybody involved in the NHS,

and I'm talking everybody from doctors, nurses, porters, cleaners, every single person in the NHS, what they've been put through. and I spoke to a doctor only very, very recently who said to me, we're on our knees. You know, we don't have bottles to do routine blood tests. I've spoken to A&E doctors recently who said, I'm more exhausting than I ever imagined exhausted to be. I mean, you know, looking after an elderly patient and he was, he said he was on his knees. You know, and yet those, you know, those Thursday nights where everybody went out clapping, In the beginning, I found it very emotional.

And then I kept thinking, this is slightly, it's not enough. We can't just clap on our doorsteps and all feel emotional. Maybe the first week and the second weekend. It was all done with heart and with love. And the people who started it up, I think it was a beautiful thing. But actually, what we need to do is pay everybody more

and respect everybody more and respect everybody who works in the NHS. Did you feel, did you feel, obviously you were exhausted because you talked about it and you and I did a weekly catch up on Instagram live and we had so many people watching that it was extraordinary but did did you feel respected did you or like everybody else that I speak to in the medical profession at the moment very much on their knees I think certainly in the early stages of the pandemic and you talked about those those early weeks where people were applauding you know that did feel genuine and real It does feel now the pendulum has swung the other way because, because, you know, there's a whole, there's a cohort of people who suggest that a lot of the failings in the pandemic are due to people in the NHS or all failings within the NHS.

Yeah, there is. You know, all those people who say, oh, well, if the NHS can't cope with COVID, it shouldn't really be the way it is and all of this. Honestly, you see it all the time and it's just horrendous. It's the same people who don't believe in the vaccinations and don't believe in the pandemic and don't believe in social distancing. It's that same group of people. Then they start to attack the NHS. And also, you know, we've got to bear in mind now. You know, we're in a position that, yes, you know, the pandemic was, is awful.

But we're now in a position where we've got this huge backlog to clear. And there are lots of people. And I speak to them and see them every day almost, you know, who have been waiting for treatments and surgeries. and I can understand their frustrations and why they're upset. I really can. And then that harbors a bit of ill-feeling towards the NHS and the staff in there. Waiting times are huge. Even for GPs, it's hard.

I understand it's hard to get an appointment. And so there's just a lot of ill-feeling for people. And we are tired. We're exhausted. And so are lots of people. So I don't want sympathy. I think people just want others to understand rather than be sympathetic. Respect.

Yes. respect and it's going to take time to clear it all up. It's going to take time to get back to where we were. It's going to take years for the NHS to clear this backlog up. And at the same time, we're getting new referrals in as well as trying to manage the ones that were there before the pandemic. So it is a really precarious situation. My concern is when there's a narrative within the NHS, when the staff are not being respected, when there's this huge backlog, when the government are pushing through bills, the healthcare bill, which will allow private organizations to bid for NHS contracts without competition, my concern is what generally happens in this situation.

It's happened before in the NHS is that private organisations will outbid NHS organisations for certain contracts. And everybody says, that's great. It's more efficient. It costs less. Yes, that is fine in the initial phases. Eventually, the NHS contractors, will go out of business because they can't afford to run when they're not getting the contracts. So that just leaves the private providers in that space who then put up their prices because there's no other competition from NHS bidders.

That then costs the NHS more overall and it will get to a point where we just won't be able to afford the NHS and that opens it out to insurance policies and privatisation. And that's a real concern, you know, the more this narrative of the NHS cartcope, we need to open it out to private organisations, goes on, the more likely that the NHS won't exist

in the way we know it today in the future. And that's a real concern. We're so lucky to have the NHS. Goodness me, when you look around the world and see what they've got, we're so, so lucky. Was it, was, before you became a doctor, were you as aware, this is a strange question, but were you as aware of what the NHS was about

and how important it was? No, no, I wasn't at all. And I think that's important because I think people who might not be embedded in the NHS who don't use it so much don't really understand how important it is for lots of people and how important that idea of free at the point of access is vital.

and almost unique to us in the UK. And yes, we'll go through ups and downs in the NHS, and we really will. And there are efficiencies to be made. I'm not sitting here saying the NHS is perfect. There's definitely efficiencies to be made and there's things that could be done better. But, you know, when you're sick

and you need to see someone or seek help, the fact that you can just pitch up to a hospital and get really good treatment without having to worry about the cost of it is just incredible. It's just incredible. It really is. So when did the decision for you to become a doctor happen? I wish I had a really good story for this.

And when I was at school, there were a couple of other people in my class who wanted to be doctors. And they had brilliant stories, you know, that one of their relatives had been sick and a doctor had saved their relatives life and they wanted to be just like them. Or they'd been sick. and they'd seen an incredible doctor who'd inspired them. I don't have a story like that, to be honest, Gabby. I wanted to be a vet. So I did all the subjects require.

I mean, they overlap with human medicine, what you need to do at A level to do veterinary medicine. And I do all my work experience out of veterinary surgery, working in reception. And then my mum is a very typical Asian mother. Mama can. We all know and love her. very typical. And so I said to her when I was applying, it came to time to apply. And she'd humoured me, I think, up until that point in terms of wanting to be a vet. So I said, oh, mum, right, I'm filling out

my UCAS form. I'm going to apply to do veterinary medicine. She sat me down and she's completely calm about it. And she just said, no. And I went, sorry. And she just said, you know, when we eventually move back to India, nobody has pets. over there, you won't be able to make a living, you'll have to do medicine. I don't want to move back to India, but I'm sure. Oh no, we'll all be moving back to India eventually. And so I thought about, I mean, I was only 17, I thought about it. Oh, I didn't know we were moving back to India.

Okay, fair enough. So let's do something that allows me to get a job over there. But, you know, I tell that story, and it sounds a bit kind of mean of my mother. But, you know, I couldn't be happier in the job that I am in now. you know, as a GP in the community that I lived in, you know. And so it pains me to say it, but I think not for the reason she said it, but I think she got it right in terms of what course I should apply for. So I kind of fell into it and then learned to love it.

I'd be like an arranged marriage, I would say, you learn to love them. Your mother, so your mother has become a celebrity in her own right. you talk about her cancer, you talk about, Mama Kahn's text to you are now stuff of legends, you should be writing a drama or a sitcom based on her text to you because they are magnificent. How does she feel about having a son who is a Sunday Times best-selling author? She honestly pays very little attention to it. So my mum's main agenda in life is to have to have. have us all around at her house all the time sitting down around her and just kind of chatting

amongst herself. That's when she's happiest. And anything that stops that from happening or restricts that from happening is just a big obstacle in her mind. So if I say, I'm not coming around today or this weekend because I've got to go down to London and film this or do that, you know, she won't say anything like mean or anything, but you can tell she's not happy about it. So, so, so I think she, it's, you know, within herself, she's really proud of what I've managed to do over the last few years, but she, she doesn't vocalise it. She's not the kind of mother who will tell me she's proud. And in a way, I respect her for that, because it kind of spurs me to, to do more. But at the same time, yeah, she's not, she would never watch anything

that I'm on on the telly or read my book or anything like that. And that's, and that's, absolutely fine. But I do sometimes overhear her telling her friends about some of the stuff I've done. So that's quite nice. Of course. Yeah, she's just keeping it from you. She probably watches it all late at night when you don't know. She's up there in her room. She doesn't because when I was on GPs that I closed doors, that I used to come on on a Wednesday evening. And one Wednesday evening, my mum insisted that she watched it all the time. And I was like, oh yeah, great. And one Wednesday evening, I went round to my mum's house and GPs behind closed doors was on. But she was watching one of her Indian dramas, which she's addicted to. She's addicted to several of them. And, and G.B.'s behind

closed doors used to come on at 8 o'clock, and it was 8.15, and she was still watching a drama. So I said, she said, Mom, are you watching GPs behind closed doors? She goes, yes, every week. I never miss an episode. And I said, do you watch it? While it's on the TV? And she said, yes, of course. And I went, do you record it? And she doesn't know how to kind of, you know, set the record. She went, no, no, I don't record it. I watch it. And I went, all right, okay, can I just borrow a second? I went, it's on now, Bob. And she went, don't change the channel.

I'm watching my drive. So I'm pretty sure she doesn't watch it. So you and I work together. I remember saying to, I met the guy behind GPs behind closed doors, Nickerbocker, the production company. And lovely guy who was in charge of it. And I said, oh, I've just been asked to present a show. with Dr. Amir from one of your shows.

Honestly, he did the same thing. One of the nicest people you will ever meet. So it is, you epitomize everybody's cliche, but their dream cliche, of how a doctor should be. And what is so wonderful about your book is that some of the stories of things that have happened behind. So it's your, your, book, The Doctor will see you now. The stories are just hysterical. I mean, hysterical. There's one in

particular that when you tell the story as well, I mean, you've written it in your voice. So I can, because we know each other, I could hear your voice when I read it. But my words, you've got some funny stories in there. And did they really happen? Yes. So they're all based on truth. And the stories really did happen. I've had to change a lot of the details because of confidentiality. And where I didn't change them, I sought consent from the patients and they read the chapters in the book before they consent. They were all really happy. I think my favorite, I mean, there are a number of funny stories in there. My favorite one, I think, is when I write about I was on call in the evening at the surgery. And when you're on call, it's literally

non-stop from start to finish. So you're getting at 8 o'clock in the morning and you just, you have a normal clinic, but on top of that, anything urgent that comes through, you have to go and sort out. So whether that's urgent patients coming in or whether it's urgent home visits, you have to go and do. And I also had a medical, I often have medical students sitting in with me because we're a big teaching and training practice. And I had this, this girl who was a little bit shy and a bit quiet and she was from Harrogate so she was a little bit posh and we had this urgent visit to go and do to this care home and it was about it was about four o'clock in the afternoon then I'd been working flat out and I hadn't had lunch and I was so hungry but we went out to do

this visit and this poor lady was really unwell she had a pneumonia and I called an ambulance because her oxygen levels were low she was struggling to breathe and I was explaining to this student, you know, how to assess a poorly elderly person with a pneumonia. And then I said, look, we've got to get back to the surgery, but we can't leave until the ambulance arrived because she's so unwell. And so I was looking out the window waiting for this ambulance to arrive. And I saw it in the distance. I said, okay, they're coming. Let's go and meet them in the car park. But I don't know whether it's because I was so hungry and I was hallucinating. But it wasn't an ambulance that arrived. It was an ice cream van. So.

conversation in my head going, do I really want a 99? Can I wait? But I got a 99 with like juice, you know, the strawberry sauce and the chocolate bits and everything. So when the ambulance did arrive, which was shortly after I started eating my 99, I was standing outside with eating this ice cream. And I was telling them about this poor lady inside. And I'd written down a letter because you have to write a letter when you send someone into hospital. And unfortunately, all the juice from the ice cream and dripped onto this letter. So the faces of the ambulance crew, as I kind of sheepishly handed over the letter to them

with the strawberry sauce. It was just so embarrassing. But reading it, reading it, I was laughing out loud and hearing you saying, you do write like you speak, but they are unbelievable stories. And I believe you,

but also it shows that doctors are human. Yes. You guys are human. We certainly are. That's so important. So how do you, how does, this is a strange question, but how does fame grab you?

Because you went from being an amazing local GP to being across television, Sunday Times bestselling author, I'll just keep saying it, Sunday times bestselling author, hosting shows on Channel 5, quite frankly you should be on strictly if you're not this year you should be next year how does fame grab you

the thing I would say about it is I've met some incredible people like yourself I don't want to suck up to you or anything I'm like yourself and I've made some incredible friends that I would not have met otherwise but outside of that not a great deal has changed to be honest Gabby because I think because I live it leads and, you know, still work at the same surgery, same hours, you know, nothing much

has changed from that. So everything else is on top of it. And also because nobody I know actually watches me or reads my books. So nothing has changed from that point of view either. So, so, you know, apart from working more, I think that's the big difference. You know, I'm working a lot more. And whereas I would have had time to myself, I'm now doing other things and working in a whole different kind of area. It hasn't changed much, to be honest, and I quite like that. I quite like the fact that I've got my GP job that I go to and then every so often I dip into this other world, which is just like some, you know, I watched you and everyone, you know, other people I've worked with growing up. And the fact that I'm talking to you now kind of blows my mind.

I thought that you came to my house, Cammy. I was like, I was like, oh my God. Don't be so silly. Don't be so silly. Because I'm a fan. I'm a fan of everyone I meet. And it's just incredible that I actually get to meet. But it's all I can do is to hold it together.

I think that's my main concern. Well, you're mad. And you've been here. You're definitely a friend of the family because all the family loves you. But not only that, but you train. GPs. So you're a, you know, you teach the upcoming GPs. How did they, are they aware of your, and I'm doing that awful air thing, but you can't see me so that's fine. Fame, are they aware of that you're now a television doctor? In a way, yes. So, so when you train GPs, you, you train them,

they're literally, you have a very close relationship with them because it used to be when, that you'd get one GP trainee per trainer and you know you tutor them, you'd mentor them, you'd watch them consult, they would watch you consult and you'd have a very close relationship. But now because there's such a shortage of GPs, I have four GP trainees at the moment. Four. Yeah, and it's a lot of work because it's not just a, you know, because they have all these assessments they need doing and I have to read all their entries on their e-portfolio when they write about patients they've seen and all of this kind of stuff.

It's a lot of work. And I guess, you know, what I've seen, I think because because we don't often get to see each other consult, you know, as qualified GPs. I would never see other qualified GPs consult. So what GPs behind closed doors did in a way was kind of show people how we consulted or how I consulted. So what I found that's done now is because GP trainees, there's a spectrum of them. There's some excellent, brilliant ones that just sail through and then there's some ones that struggle for various reasons. And what would I find now because of GPs behind closed doors, because people may have seen me consult and think of me in a certain way, I get, I get a lot of the GP trainees who need extra input and particularly around communication skills. And that's absolutely fine. And that's been the reality of GP training for many, many years. But now I think because people are very open about it. And actually, GP trainees sometimes say, can I, can you assign me to Amir because I've seen on GP's behind closed doors and my communication needs improving and all of that. So it's lovely to get that.

It is a lot more work, though, can we? So you have to sit in a lot more. Do you find the time? Well, that, you know, that is my favourite part of everything I do, teaching and training. So, so for. Really? Yeah, that's my favourite thing above everything else. So teaching medical students, nursing students and GP trainees is the best part of what I do

because I'm such a fan of general practice when it goes well and when you get it right. Because you've got to be honest, there are some rubbish GPs out there. And you've got to be honest about that. And that don't connect with patients. There's some excellent ones that work really, really hard that do do all of that stuff. So, you know, there's no point me sitting here going, oh, there's terrible GPs out there. They give us all a bad name. You've got to change it.

You've got to then train GPs to be good GPs. And I think, you know, lots of GPs have that result. responsibility and we've got to, you can't just complain, you've got to be a doer, don't you? And you've got to change things. Otherwise, it'll never change. So I feel, you know, instilling that ethos about patient-centered care, good communication, you know, making sure people are heard and listen to in GP trainees. And it's not just about passing exams. It's about really being a good doctor. Then, then you can, you can, you can, you can make a difference. You can. It's a small difference because it's one doctor at a time, but it's an important difference, I think,

because that doctor will go on and work in a practice and see lots and lots of patients, and each one of them will, you know, it's kind of like, you know, something you've had an input in, I guess. And also, are they aware that you are now the disco king and the karaoke king, and do they ever ask to join you on a Friday night, which for your kitchen disco? You know what, if they bring up any of that stuff while like that work in the service, I feel that there are two very separate things. The stuff I do on social media and the telly and the stuff I do at work.

I feel in my head they're very separate things. I'm sure that's not the case for other people. So it's a bit like when you have one group of friends that don't really meet another group of friends and then they meet and it's all a bit weird for you. It's just like that. So when a patient says to me, oh, I've read your book or I've followed you on social media

or when a trainee says that or a colleague, I feel really weird and embarrassed like going, how? It's not for people I actually. know it's for people I don't know for them to watch that. So it's a really awkward feeling for me. And I know that sounds nuts, but that, it just, it just is. So when they try and bring up, oh, I follow you on social media, I just kind of brush it under the carpet and then go, right, let's talk about your assessments. That's so funny. I mean, because you do, you do your cooking,

oh my goodness, you made the best gluten-free cake I've ever tasted in my life. So, for us. But when you do your cooking and you do your dancing and you do your karaoke, all of those things that you do, that's again, I'm going back to the word I use at the beginning, you're a real giver. And doctors, when doctors get it right, it's about giving. It's an amazing profession. It really is. I mean, the thing is, you know, people will say to me, oh, well, you're really brave to stand in front of people and do something live.

Oh, wow, what you do? Nothing. I literally talk. That's all I do. I talk and have conversations with lovely people. And then there are people like you who save people's lives. Do you ever get moments where you sit back and think, wow. And I know there's a really tough side as well.

I've got doctors in my family, and I remember my uncle always saying, there are moments where your heart breaks. You know, you lose a patient, whatever it is, that your heart breaks. but you save people's lives. I mean, that's just incredible. Isn't it incredible? Well, what I would say, first of all, Gabby, is what you do is not easy.

No, no, no, no, I'm not about me. I'm talking about you, you, you, you, you, but that communication side of things and connection is very similar, is very similar, you know, connecting and communicating and listening and all of that kind of stuff. But I'm not saving people's lives. We're talking about you. Is it awesome saving people's lives?

I mean, you don't think of it like that, to be honest. I never really think of it like that. You know, you're going and you don't know what's going to, what you're going to get booked in that day. So a lot of my job, Gary, rather than just saving lives, is listening to people and making sure they feel listened to and understood and coming up with a plan that is shared with them, making sure they feel involved in everything.

And every so often you'll get an urgent emergency case or, you know, something that is a really worrying symptom that makes you think this could be cancer and you've got to sort that out. And, you know, because it's such a mix and you don't have time to reflect, because you're really seeing patients every 10 minutes, you never have time to kind of go, oh, okay. I don't, I don't, I think lots of doctors don't really think of it in that regard.

And also, by the time I finish work, I've got to go and see my mum, Gabby, so I don't have time to stay back and think. And also, your family is very important. And it is to you because there's often pictures of your sister and your nieces and nephews. And I still can't quite work out how you have. I think you don't have seven days a week.

I think you have a different week than we all have because you also have all the travel. I actually don't know how you do it. And then you write this Sunday Times bestseller. Oh, by the way, they're going to be more books? I'm writing another book at the moment. And I know we talked about it, but it's very different to the book I've done.

It's very different to The Doctor Will See You Now. But it's based on some truths I have lived through, but it is fictional, but kind of loosely fiction. Yeah, don't take too much. Keep it as a surprise because it's just brilliant. It's absolutely brilliant. But your family is right, you know, you talk about your family a lot. Was it like that when you were a child?

Was the family very tight, very close? Yeah, we've always, I mean, like, we've always been tight. We've got, I've got six sisters and my mom, my dad died, you know, when I was, when I was a teenager. And so we have always kind of, that broad is closer together. And then my sisters got married and, you know, they have kids. And I adore my nephews and nieces, like lots of people do. And so yes. And there's been some stuff that, you know, makes you know, that test relationships, doesn't it? And I think, you know, got to be honest about it. But we kind of get through that. And certainly the relationship I have with my nephews and nieces, because they range from age like three to 27. And so I'm really close to them. And that makes a, you know, that enriches life, I think. How wonderful.

children in the family. And also your gardening. I know we're not going around in a full circle, but you and your garden and you're the butterflies, the plants for butterflies, the stuff for bees, all of those things. And you've got involved in many charities now to do with that. That also, then again, it's about giving. But your garden is incredible. Yeah, the garden. I mean, you've been to it. It's not a massive garden by any stretch of the imagination. But what I've done is, is use the space as well as I can. And I'm not a gardener. I'm not an expert.

I'm an enthusiast. And you learn as you go along, and many plants have unfortunately been casualties along the way. But things, you just learn and you read and you learn and you do things and things, you know, nature arrives in your garden as a result of it. And you go, oh, well, that works. And you do more of that. And through that time and it's taken, you know, several years,

you kind of, you just, it just works so well. And certainly, you know, working in the NHS and through the last 18 months or so in the pandemic, the garden has been a saviour for me, like green spaces have for many people, if you don't have a garden, then other public green spaces have been really important. But coming home, you know, certainly after some of those tough days at the start of the pandemic, the garden was just a saviour. I'm so grateful for it. But also it's lovely that you do share it on social media. I think that's really lovely.

It's a way of giving back again, giving again. So one of the things we always say on this podcast is we want to know what makes people belly laugh. Now, I know that you can giggle. You and I have giggled hugely together, especially you trying to teach me how to Bangra dance. I mean, please. I haven't got it yet. I still haven't got it. I think you're brilliant, honey, you are.

But what makes you properly, properly belly laugh? If you just need to laugh, what would it be that just sets you off? I love, well, I guess, you know, my colleagues at work, I've got one very good friend and, you know, chatting to them and telling funny stories. Just kind of chatting to my colleagues at work, I guess, makes me laugh because we share so many experiences and you've got to see the funny side of things. And so I've got one very good friend who's one of the nurse practitioners who I work with. And we just sit, we arrive at the same, we're one of those, I set off to work at seven and so does she. and we chat on the phone all the way to work and then we meet each other in the car park

and we chat there and then we go to the kitchen, make a coffee, all laughing and chatting and laughing and chatting and just telling really kind of the things that we've done that day and we just laugh from start to finish at work whenever we see each other. And I think that is true for many people within the NHS. You get a lot of your support from your colleagues

and certainly I do at my work. And you know, we've been on holiday, day together and all of these kind of stuff. And it's just, you know, my NHS colleagues support me, but they also crack me up, honestly, Gabby. They're hilarious. You know, over the years, there have been so many well-known stand-ups who were doctors. Harry Hill was a doctor, wasn't he?

Yes, yeah. And many, many others over the years. And maybe that's your next thing to do. I think I'll stick to the GP. You are wonderful. Well, Amir, we love you so much. As a family, you know, you just are very special to all of us, but also to everybody out there. And thank you very much for chatting to us on this podcast. And also thank you for being the giver that you are.

Thank you so much. I've had a great time. Thank you for having me on. Thank you so much for listening. Coming up next week, actor and top podcaster, Craig Parkinson. That Gabby Roslin podcast is proudly produced by Cameo Produced. and music by Beth Macari. Could you please tap the follow or subscribe button? And thank you so much for your amazing reviews. We honestly read every single one of them and they mean the world to us.

Thank you so much for listening.