That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Ella Henderson

Episode Date: November 19, 2024

Gaby welcomes singer/songwriter Ella Henderson to the studio to chat about all thinkg joy. They talk about shyness, anxiety and how they both cope with them. Ella takes ua way back to when she was just 16 and on the X-Factor, and how her sudden fame affected her mentally and physically. She discusses navigating the time, which she believes was easier than it would be now, because social media wasn't such a thing back then.They also talk about the day Ella was born, and why she is named after Gaby! TRUE FACT! Remember you can watch all our episodes on YouTube should you so wish. Please head to our page to like and subscribe! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is making me very happy for this episode of reasons to be joyful, somebody that brought me such joy when I watched Tornelli, and then whose mom made my life, and all will be explained, Ella Henderson. You're just lovely. Oh, don't say that because you are. No, no, no, you are. No, you really are. No.

And we share the same name. Oh, she's giving it away. Okay, so we met, we met before, and then we saw each other at, a Wellchild Award and we were backstage and your mom came up and she was so lovely and she said I need to tell you something you what you there's a fly there's a fly flying around it's getting excited as well you share the same name as my daughter I said no my name is not Ella she went no but she shares your name so I got so confused I went my name she said Gabriella and I said my name is not Gabriella it's just Gabby she went what and then she told me

which blew my mind. I can't say it because this just, look, just, please, before I scream, because my girls think it's hysterical, who were you named after? So I found that out that day as well that my mum named me after you, Gabby wrestling.

Oh my God. And what was it that she said she used to watch when I was in her tummy? So it couldn't have been, how old are you that now? I was born in 96. Right. So it would have been the big breakfast. So the end of the big breakfast and I was doing something called whatever you want and all sorts of things. Oh, she knows it all.

But it was, she looked and I just, what are you talking about? She said, yes, I named her after you. So you're not even Gabriella, but I'm named after you. But what's so funny is I end up with Gabby, you're Ella and somehow we've merged together. I know, isn't that funny? But you, I don't know if you remember. I also cried because nobody ever said that to me. me before. I named my

daughter after you. But you're one of those humans, Gabby, where, like, when you see you on the TV or on the radio, wherever you see you presenting, my mum adores you. So, like, and I'm so close with my mum, so naturally I've grown up to adore you. Oh, no, no, this is about you.

Not about me, but this. I have, though. I have, and you just always, you always radiate such kind energy. Well, that's what you do. That's why I... That's when she said that, I was completely overwhelmed, and I did cry, but also I went back that night after the awards and I was screaming.

And I was saying, oh, girls, girls! And I think my younger one was in bed. I mean, you gotta wake up! Ella Henderson's named after me. There was, no. Your name's not Ella. So now they're 17 and 23.

Oh, wow. So they absolutely like, they're exactly. Yeah, yeah, we're all okay, well. Exactly your family. What did they think when you told them? They kept saying, no, mom. No, her name's Ella. I mean, no.

Her name's Gabriella. And nobody, well, not a lot of people, know that my name is Gabriella on the bus. Did anybody ever call you Gabby? Yes, in school I was a Gabby. There we go. And it's so weird because sometimes if I'm out and about and if I've heard it before and someone call me Gabby

and I'm like, it's someone I know from like way back when before anything. And it's bizarre because I was Gabriella and then, but growing up I'm the youngest of four and my brothers could never say my name so they called me Ella. So at home I was Ella. Oh, that's where it came from. Yeah. And then in school, naturally just was called Gabby.

and then it's weird when I went and did that X Factor audition at 16 it was up to me I could have easily put Gabriella Gabby or Ella and I just went with Ella but whatever I'd have written that day is what my name would have been today so what does your fiancé call you

Ella so everyone calls you Or a lot of other names but we won't sit on the podcast That's not for sharing that's everyone for sharing No no no Okay so you mentioned X Factor

16 you were 16 Your voice, we watched it religiously. Your voice, it still does blow our minds. But you were 16. Yeah, I know. Isn't that weird now if you think about it? I literally, I was talking about it only in a recent therapy session I was having. I don't think I quite grasped how young I was when I did it.

If you actually think about it, because I've got nephews now that are, the eldest is 18 and 16. I'm really close to my sister, they're her two boys. And I could never imagine them doing something like that. I think it's different now, though, because we have social media that's such at the forefront of everything, right? Absolutely. And really, Instagram only just started when I did that. And you had Twitter and stuff.

But, yeah, 16 years old is very, very young. I think I now realize that I'm not, like, you know, I'm not old at Bloody 28, but I definitely look back now and I think I was very young when I did that. Were you quite streetwise, or were you just, was there a nice now? because that's yes and no i would say i was streetwise in the sense of i've got i've been brought up well

and very like with northern morals and very just like grounded and keep your feet on the ground vibes but in the same token i'd never really gone a lot out like i went to a boarding school because i got a scholarship to go to um like a performing art school when i was 11 so i went there and that taught me a lot and i kind of learned the ropes to being away from home but apart from that no like i was definitely i'm the youngest of force so i've always always been like the baby or the one that's got away with everything and you know i think my mom really actually struggled with me even going to boarding school let alone go on like that show she was like so you know wanted me like tucked in with she's so proud of you oh gosh i mean her her face i when she when she's

holding you backstage and so proud i've never seen her that excited when she there's two two times in my life i've seen my mom so excited where she's just gone on and on and on about it for days. One was meeting Donnie Osmond because that was like her childhood crush and and she, I've never seen her go purple. She went purple. It was so I was saying, Mum, I've got someone to come and meet you. Was she breathing? Well I brought it, I brought him in. It was backstage at, I think it was the NTA awards and I was only 16 then. I was performing on it when I came off the X Factor. That's mad. And he was in the corridors and I just thought I've never really done this before because I was so young and I grabbed him and I just went,

Donnie, I said, I'm so, so sorry to interrupt you, but I have to bring you to my dressing room. My mum will just die. She loves you. And I brought him in and she just didn't know what to do with herself. And she went purple. Oh, yeah, no. She ended up just crumbling and just like absolutely fangled.

And my dad was there as well. It was so funny. But she was sat there and she literally just said to his face like, I love you. Oh. That time is the time I've seen. And meeting you. Oh no, I thought she was excited about you performing.

No, no. No, there's monumental moments in my career, Gabby, and one of them's meeting Donnie Osmond with her and then one's meeting you. No, it is because I think you get to do so many wild different things in this career. But actually, I think what my mum loves is when she comes across real people in this industry, and she gets to see a little piece of that. And I think, do you know what I mean?

You're so lovely. And your mum's so lovely. But all I mean is, like, when she was hugging you before you went on, It was, there was just so much pride and it must be quite extraordinary for a parent because you were, I hate the phrase, I'm going to use it, but catapulted into the stratosphere. Suddenly on the big, it was the biggest show at the time.

You were 16 years old and everybody didn't understand why you, I love that you and James Arthur have then since worked together and all of that. But everyone, you know, you were one team or the other at home. Yeah. And it was like, what, no, that voice, that voice. she's so love it. And the way you behaved on it, you were just polite and lovely.

What's happened? Yeah, she's foul, rude. Yeah, I think. But it's 12 years, which actually... It's crazy. A lot has happened in those 12 years. And I know you took some time out, which is really good as well.

I'm actually nothing to do with me. I'm really pleased you did because the whirlwind of that craziness must have... Did you ever feel that you were... Like, you just couldn't keep up? Yeah, I think this is what I think I'm well. working through at the moment is the idea of nobody teach there's there's one thing as like well look I'm a singer aren't I and I'm an artist so the standard way there is no standard way of this career the path though as you know everyone has their own version of events how they come into it but how I thought in my head if this ever would have happened with me would have been finish college go do my levels rent um rent a flat with some friends work like three different jobs trying to write music at the same time

and trying to get signed as a songwriter to write for artists and eventually be in the room with other artists learn the ropes and then hopefully... You're all planned. Yeah, that's such a movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So for it to happen the way it did,

nothing really prepares you for... What I do find is the strangest part of it and I don't think I've really understood this until quite recently is nobody knowing you at all apart from the people that really love and care about you unconditionally in your life and then waking up one day

and everybody knowing you and having an opinion of you and that's... quite, I look back now and I'm like, I was 16 and a baby, how did I even do that? And it is, you know, it's a lot. And I think, and also nobody taught you, there was no discussion of mental health back then or anything like that. And I guess there's nothing that really can teach you what to deal with when that's taken away. You can't actually be taught those things, can you? No, no, no, no.

And I think that's where I'm just really grateful how supportive my family are and especially my parents. you know, my siblings, my best friends, I can count my friends on one hand, they've been there from absolutely day dot. And yeah, I mean... Those are the ones that start by you. And there's so much... You know, there is a lot of fakery in the entertainment business. It's all...

Oh, how are you? And then they kiss you hello and they're actually looking over their shoulder to see... The next person. Yeah, all of that. You can keep those people. You really can. Yeah. But you...

It was enormous and your songs were ever... everywhere. And it's really funny that I'm even saying that because it was your songs, but that was you that was everywhere as well as this young girl. And then taking that time away, was that your, was it a decision of yours? I was fortunate enough, I think the way I came off X Factor, I know a lot of people, when I bump into people in the supermarket or wherever I am, they're like, oh, you should have won. I'm like, well, actually, I think me coming off the way I did was one of the best things that happened to me because I don't think just shooting straight away, having to go straight into doing a single would have been the right thing for a 16 year old, looking back.

I had like two years to actually do a little bit of artist development and go into the recording studio, right? And I was in the room with my dream producers. It was just unbelievable at that age and getting to create and write music and learn from the best. And that's how like it all started. But I think the music industry was very different then as well to what it is now. I think Ghost was the last number one before streaming was introduced.

So like music's obviously... That's incredible. Yeah, it's bizarre. It's what it is, because after that, it's changed so dramatically. I can remember, like, it came out, and that night I saw it on, like, sat at number one on iTunes, and I was just waiting for it to just fall, and it never did. And I sat with my mum, and I think we just cried for ages. Oh, of course.

I was going to believe it. Was it, of all the place, it was it G-A-Y heaven. Oh, they couldn't be anywhere better. And that's where I did, and I did, I'll never forget, I did a rendition of believe it. It wasn't really planned, but I was like, do you know what? Bugger it. I'm just going to do a version of shares believe. And everybody loved it, and we all sang it word for word.

And yeah, it was just very surreal. And then having like a number one album at that age. And then I was, this is when I was like 18, this was happening. And then you travel the world and do all these amazing things. But I think at the time, you look back on it and part of it's a blur. And then part of it, I wish I could go back and redo it and enjoy it more for what it was. Because I think I was just such an anxious. Like underneath it, I coped with it so well, but underneath it all,

I think I was really anxious and, I guess a lot of hotel rooms where you just like sat there ordering room service and like, yeah, I've got my amazing management that have been with me since day one as well that was with me and like we've got so many funny stories from along the way. But I've got to say like, I think after that chapter kind of happened, I say chapter in the first album was even called chapter one. I just, I don't know. I think I had, I was 18, right?

So I almost felt jealous and resentful of my friends at uni going out. Doing, having a normal. Just normal things. And I would come back to London, which never really felt like home, because I'm originally from up north. And then I had this flat that was renting. There was nothing in it. And it was just like, well, I don't like this flat.

I don't like where I live. I don't even have a sofa. I don't have a, like, everything just felt a bit. So I was like, I just need to live for a little one. while and figure out who I am and just be an 18 year. That's such a mature thing to do. I mean, yes and no, because that is. Because there's not many 18 year olds that would say that.

Yeah. I just want it all. I want it all because I kind of did. At first I did and I tried to write album too but it just wasn't working. It wasn't happening and my label and I decided to part ways. There was a lot of changes in the company anyway. Everyone that was part of my first record had left and they were the people that I signed to and they believed in me and I believed in them and we.

we had this amazing relationship and then I got handed into the hands of someone that didn't really see the same vision as me so I was like well what's the point because if you don't see the same end result we're never going to get there. Everything happens for real. I know people always say that's so trite

but I really truly believe it. Yeah. Like you said everyone says oh I wish you'd won but actually you didn't and it's because of that step that you were supposed to do and the next bit and the next bit and the next bit but I had no idea what was next

I mean, I knew I still wanted to obviously do music, but I think the scariest thing was, I'd know, I mean, before signing my record deal at 16, I'd never done a paper round, Gabby. So I honestly thought... Are you doing a paper round now, though? I'm so pleased. You've never done one before, but now you're very happy in your paper round.

I'd never done a normal job, so I was just, I was preparing myself for the worst in my mind, which was you'll never get another record deal again because that could have happened. And it doesn't mean I'm going to get signed again. But it wouldn't because of your voice. But that's just me saying that now. It's easy.

Honestly, you wouldn't because you're a star. You're a natural star. You'd have seen me at that time. You'd have thought so not maybe not have seen necessarily my talent, but you definitely would have thought, oh, wow, like she's really lost. And how do we help her navigate that? Because I really was lost. Of course.

And that's when I think for the first time, I started to experience, like, anxiety and panic. And I'd never experienced it before. and I've opened up very much warmly about the whole conversation of this over the last couple of years. It's so good that you have. I mean, there's many, many of you have. Yeah. I don't want to name them all because we know who they are, but, you know, Robbie talks about it so eloquently. I've known Rob since he was 15, you know, other people, but some of the little mixes, all of them, they all talk openly about it.

And the more we talk about all of these issues, the more is going to help other people and help yourself. And it's got to be a double one. agree. You know, the fact it's helping you to talk about it and it's helping that other young boy, that other young girl, that older woman who's had anxiety, whatever age, somebody's actually using the words. Somebody's saying, I'm shy, I'm awkward, I feel anxious, I'm scared to get out of the car. They're going, oh, oh, that's me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's weird. I think it took an interview for me to, I think I saw, who was it? I think it might have even been one of the little mixed girls at one point. I think it might have, yeah, one of them was talking about. how at one point they didn't want to leave the house. I was like, I know what that, I've had that. And I thought it's crazy.

And it's not because I don't want to leave the house because I don't want to get photographs on. I'm talking about not leaving the house because you're just scared to. You're scared. It's nothing to do with what I do. Like I could have worked in Tesco and felt that way. I think it was just a stage of my life

where I didn't know where I was going, didn't know how to navigate it, didn't know if I was going to get signed again, and didn't really know what to do with myself. And I just got my head, down a little bit and went and started I basically hit everyone up that I wrote a lot of my first album with and that was a really interesting process to see who replied back as an unsigned female artist and who didn't and work don't talk don't name them I won't name them but did some of them do

yeah some did and some did and the ones that did are still in my life today and we still write and oh how lovely yeah and we did we would go in and write and then that's when I started writing so then I'd created this kind of small body of work and then what happened was I was in a studio one day and next door was the rudimental boys and somehow they'd overheard some of my music and they came in. They was like, this is great and they'd, so they had never even seen me on the X Factor. They just knew of me through ghost and my music, which was lovely. Yeah, which was a really interesting. That's quite liberating. Yeah, it was for me because I think, I think, you know, coming from something like a talent show, sometimes you feel like you

just got constantly, you have it in the back of your mind, even if no one's saying it, you're thinking it of you've got to try and break this mold of what that means but um i think for me to be just judged solely for like my music and there it was on the table and they just started having a chat with me and then their manager came in just started saying like look we've got our own record label now like what's the thoughts and i was like oh gosh like you're like yeah let's speak to my manager but like it sounds really exciting and when i wrote down labels at the time of where i wanted to go it was atlantic Records and as soon as I found out that their label was part of Atlantic I was so excited because I was like, oh my gosh, like is this it? Is this it? Or all the stars are lining? Is this going to be

it? And they really took me under their wing though. They took me, I'd not got up on stage for about I want to say 18 months, two years, which when you constantly have done that day and day out and you stop, it feels like forever and you almost feel like you don't even know what to do. You don't know if you can still do it. Like a fish out of water basically. Can I do it. And I think the way I used to perform as well, I always used to wear a black jumpsuit,

all done up, a pair of heels, and stand behind a mic stand, right? That was my show for years. And then I went to a rudimental rehearsal and I just saw the chaos. I saw this 15-piece band that was like all live musicians, I mean, I had live musicians, but it was a four piece and some singers.

This was like, there's a brass section. Then there's the singers. And the idea was that I was going to go on tour with them as one of the singers that pops up. And I was like, this is amazing. I'm not named. There's no pressure. I'm here as part of rudimental and it's a family. And it did.

It felt like this really dysfunctional family. And we went on the road. And I can remember the first night I got on stage. I was so nervous. And one of the girls. And actually, Ammarie did the kind of same route as me of doing this kind of like going on tour with the rudimental boys and coming through that way.

And I just learnt so much. I went from being behind that mic stand to then wearing trainers on stage, whatever I wanted to wear, doing my own hair and makeup, however I wanted to do it, running around the stage, literally I would come off dripping with sweat

and I'd feel like, oh my God, that's what living feels like. Like it was like a completely different feeling. into any of my other gigs or anything I'd ever done, even though of having a lot of success. It almost felt like this big, like, epiphany moment for me. And I can remember one night it was in Dublin. It was the first night of the show.

And it was time for me to come forward and sing, like, full on. It was called Free. It's their tune with Emily Sanday, which is one of my favorite songs they do. And I could see some of the people in the audience, like, is that hurt? you could kind of see them in the crowd and I was like oh like it made me a bit nervous

and then I started doing it at the end and it was at the end of the song that Leon from the band and he said for all of you I can hear the whispers in the room yes this is incredible and Ella Henderson and I can remember just the whole room stood up

and applauded me because I'd gone through so much anxiety and I started crying on stage and I was just like oh wow like this is like a real new beginning for me and it was and I honestly even today, I don't even know if those boys know how like

fundamental that tour itself was for me. Even going on, it's the first time I'd gone on a proper tour bus because all of my stuff was oh we're flying here and flying this, we've got to use hotels it wasn't like, do you know what I mean? This felt real and proper. This is how I'd imagined going on the road to music to me.

The music business to be, yes. So much fun and it was just a belly laugh and a joy the whole way doing that and then obviously signed with them and then it was very much like I have complete artistic freedom to write whatever I want to write

and I had them backing me along with the support of the record label itself and with the team that I got put with within Atlantic so yeah and that's how it all kind of began with the next chapter and you feel you're in a really happy space

do you feel less anxious do you feel like anxiety? I still yes yeah I had it the other night and it comes on in waves and sometimes it comes on and you don't even know why or how. And come on, there must be something subconsciously going on in me. But you can't figure out in that moment. But what I've learned to say to myself is that I don't have anxiety.

I don't, it's not, you can't buy anxiety and you can't, you can't own it. It's just something that passes through you. And when I think of it like that, I'm like, okay, it's going to pass through me and it's going to disappear in a minute or it might take an hour, but it is going to pass through. It's just a moment. No, I'm not matured. No, but that is a very mature attitude.

But it took me five years to get to this place of learning that. I didn't, you know, for two years, I think I thought I was having a heart attack or something severe. I mean, listen, I talk very openly about having excruciating shiners. And people go, well, you're on the tell you all the time you do all the... No, I have such shyness. And I've talked about it on this podcast a lot because I want more people to talk about shyness. But where I can't go to a party sometimes. And it will just...

That's like me, though. And I'll be outside and I will look at my... husband and go, I actually can't go in. He'll go, yeah, you can't. No, do you don't understand? I cannot go. I cannot go. And people don't get it. But it just, but I know it's going to go. But in that moment, it's there. And it's very real. It's so your anxiety in that moment is very real. And you're right, it dissipates somewhere. You go, oh, I'm okay. And do you know, one of my favorite things ever that happens with like, when you're within contact of strangers and stuff? you know when

let's say you're out somewhere or you're at an event or you're at a party someone's clocked on to who you are and then this one person comes up and goes I'm so sorry I've not got a clue who you are that's my favourite person in the room

I end up standing and speaking to that person all night because they have no perception of who I am what I've done don't know me they think I could be a baker from down the road and I love that and I'm like please don't apologise

that to me is the most humbling comment anyone could have said tonight to me because why should you You know who I am. You don't know. But also, the other thing to remember is what I always, and I say to people that I'm trying to help to get through that, I always say, just remember,

everybody else in the room is feeling probably similar to you and thinking, I don't want to be, oh, that person's going to think this, that person's going to think that, I can't speak. What if I say something stupid? And so just you say hello to someone who you just see on their own, and then suddenly they're, oh, okay, okay. And it is, it's about. talking about all these things.

And it's fantastic that you do. And all the people that you've helped. And I think I feel through your music, especially now, I love Filthy Rich. We're going to get on to the line a minute. What's really weird, I'm going to have to tell you, that while you've been talking, it's playing it like in a soundtrack in my head.

Anyway, I'll start singing it in a minute. It'll be really embarrassing. But your music and all the interviews that you do and all the press that you do and everything, you're talking about all these things and everything that you've gone through, everything you're going through, it just makes it far easier.

The conversations have to happen. Absolutely. And they have to happen more often. Yeah. I mean, it's one thing. In schools. Yeah, and as a creative, I get to write music,

so I get to share a lot of my inner thoughts and what's actually going on with me through my art, which is like the most, like, therapeutic thing ever. And yeah, like, obviously along the way, I've had the toxic relationship. I've had things go on in my family life and in my personal life,

and I've had, you know, my insecurities big time. I mean, my God, take away even like me in the limelight of what I do. Just like being a young woman in itself is like just difficult to navigate at times. Hormones and just all sorts going on as a female body here. So all of that to deal with on top of it like just like anyone, just trying to get up out the bed and be motivated, okay, what, what am I doing this for? Because success means something else, something so different to each and every. person and I think like...

Good for you saying that. Yeah, like and I think I'm coming to realize... Don't compare one, that's a success with another. And also do you think, you might not agree, but what success meant to me at 18 is so different to what it is now at 28 and that's 10 years difference. But it's bizarre. Like, when I sit down and speak about like... So what was it then and what is it now?

Well, I think I didn't know the difference between values and goals at the age of 18. I always thought a goal was the end. that's interesting. But actually goals are little things that veer off from your centre. You send like a value for me is like your compass. I mean I know I'm northern but it's north to me. Like it's like, so my values are my family,

my friends, safety. I like to feel safe and I don't just mean whether that be not just like financially or like I'm talking about like safe in myself of like just do I feel safe right now in the company I'm in or where I'm at. and like is it a safe environment? You know what I mean? Yeah, totally.

I can't. There's times in life where sometimes I just haven't felt safe and it's not because I've been at a detriment or I'm about to, you know, something's about to happen to me. It's just I can't quite put my finger on it and I haven't felt comfortable. That makes total sense. Totally get that.

And then goals would be, well, like having a number one or buying a car or like, you know what I mean? Like those things. More, I guess they're more in a sense like maybe materialistic or things that just, this is what coming. to really like filthy riches about it's about if you took if i took all of that side of my life away and as long as i had my family and my friends i know i'd be all right but if you took them away and i had everything else and i had all my awards sat there on the piano and all of that even with music

still here i would absolutely crumble and i would hate it so i think there's yeah there's been a huge growth spurt happening there in my life and uh i suppose like nearly like touching my 30s now of like what that's that's kind of done to me but also i think i think think when lockdown happened and I was really bad with my anxiety not because of COVID and lockdown. Sorry to bring that awful word up. But I think I was already going through such a difficult time personally like I was having about four or five panic attacks a day and I couldn't get through a day and it was really, really bad and I think one person completely misquoted me and put because at that time I was sleeping and I went back home, stayed with my mum.

And I think I kicked my dad out of the bed and I stayed in the bed for about four weeks straight. And somebody misquoted that saying I slept with my mum for four weeks straight. And I was like, no, that's not what happens. Yes, trust, yeah. That's the joy of a podcast.

We're not editing this. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. But I actually really laugh at it now. And I know that even Josh, when that happened, he was like, oh, God, what's going to go out? He always, whenever I do any interview or anything,

He knows, because I ramble and I'm northern and I'm so open. You don't ramble. You don't ramble. Don't say that. No, don't say that. Don't use that word. No, I won't. But I'm quite open.

I just say what I think and it is what it is. There's no, there's no, it's warts and all right with me. But point being, I've lost for true. No, you were saying about four, you went home because of the anxiety in lockdown and you were with your mom in bed for four weeks. Yeah, and I was honestly contemplating. You two both sleeping for four weeks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I honestly.

was contemplating then about quitting the music industry and quitting music and just focusing on myself and just finding a piece again. I think a lot of people, I know you were going through other stuff as well, but I think that did cause a lot of people to feel that about their lives. Which is really, really reassuring. A lot of acts of friends of mine just suddenly went, okay, what is all this about? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. There was something really wholesome for me being obviously back in the house that I grew up in,

back playing on the piano that I grew up playing on and taught myself to play. Sitting with my mum outside the back door, having a cup of tea with her. Lovely. Making life more about others and not yourself really helped me because it made me realise there's more than just you.

And that comes back to your song at the moment? Absolutely. But then, even from lockdown, that's when I, all I wanted to do then with my music was, kind of censored a guess around this podcast, was I just want to make people smile. That was the only thing I wanted to do with my music

because I felt so low and in a really dark place that I needed to do that for myself and that's where all this dance era's come from I think in me and I say that I think because it was never a plan. It was never like,

I'm going to start to do loads of this and this is the way my career is going to go no, not at all. We started throwing records out. I started writing more. I started sending songs off to producers and speeding them up and pitching it out to DJs and things

and it just kind of all started happening and then I was collaborating more and I loved it and I still love it. I love meeting people, finding out what they want to write about and, you know, credits to so many artists that I've worked with. I think a lot of people think these DJs, all they stand and put an MP3 in and actually know, like Nathan Dorr, whenever I've written

any of the singles, I've done three with him now and all three, he's been in the room and said fully like, this is the concept, this is what I'm going through or this is what I really want to write about this has happened to my friend and that's where, you know, 0800 heaven came from that. Like,

it's such a beautiful, beautiful message about if you could say one last thing to somebody that you love. So everything kind of always has a story and I love that with music. And I think I've definitely lent on not having to have the pressure fully on me. Maybe I've got this shyness thing as well actually

of like, I've loved being able to like not have the burden just on me and the pressure on me for, you know, the single to do well. So it's been really nerve-wracking coming into this, doing this new record because it's the first time in two years I've done something fully on my own.

It's so, it's really new sound for you. And I love it. And it feels really relevant. I don't, I think since meeting you, I feel like we're obviously connected, we're family. But it's really, it's really now. And the words, you sit down, I love it because I sing along to it

because I think it's really, it is very, very catchy. And then you suddenly go more into it because I like to know the words. Yes, I've always been like that. And then you break down the words, you go, oh, wow. It's really thought-provoking as well. But it's so good. And it just feels like there's a whole new part of,

this is your next chapter. You know, obviously you've been mentioning chapters and the album was called chapter. But it just feels like this is the next bit. Do you know this is a really weird thing from talking to you like this? It's something I was going to throw out. Have you ever thought of being a teacher or a lecturer at any of the schools, like going to the Brits school and teaching?

Because you... No, I'm being really serious. I think you're a really good teacher. I really. Yes, I really, really think that. I think you'd be fantastic at a drama school or, you know, you were at Tring. You go to Trit, do you know?

You know it's really weird that you just said this. You remind me of my first music teacher that believed in me. She was called Miss Shaw, Louise Ashure, blonde hair, always wore pink. But no, but genuinely, the way you speak and the way you make me feel,

and my mum and I've said, doesn't she remind you of Louise Shaw? I'm like, yes, she does give that, and then you've just said that. It's so strange. But you could, but I really think, just have, just think about it because I can imagine you're going off to young people.

I think I would love to start going back and we're talking about the moment because this song for me is about, you know, at the core of it, I was like, I cannot come into this and not do something where at the core of it, it's about all my values and my centre point of like, okay, where am I going to start?

If I'm starting right from the roots of it, what's the first piece of something I want to put out there? This is that and it's obviously all about my values of who I cherish in my life and what I need. You think of a way that you're on stage that you do, you do, it's like, it's not a TED talk, but it's a TED talk with music and interact with the audience and Q&A. Well, that's why I want to this whole campaign,

I just want to like almost get your standard textbook of what is expected with labels and artists and how we promote records. And there's always this fourth wall and like completely screw it up, throw in the bin. And the idea so far as being, you know, I want to rock up at people's local businesses. You've done when you did that recently. Yes, yes, I have. Oh, that was so adorable. For people who don't know what you did, just explain that if they haven't seen. I went to, so there's a guy called Matty and it's called Matty's Bakery.

check it out guys. And so he has actually been a day one fan of mine since I was 16 and we're all similar ages, me and my fans. And, you know, I'm engaged and I've done what I've done. Some of them are now having kids and babies, some of them, they're achieving their goals.

And I always said to him, because he came to every show and whenever we saw each other, I'd always say to him, one day when you have your bakery, I promise you, I'll come to it. And he was like, you promise, I was like, I promise.

So I've got to keep my word. He's opened his bakery. He's doing so, so well. So I went through, got the hairnet on, serve some people. And then I was like, bugger it, I'll get outside and sing a song. And it was, you know, very acoustic, very open air on the street.

There was the sound of the buses driving past. But I love that. I love, I want to bring it right back to the basics. And I don't mean that by, you know, oh, we need to get all emotional. I just mean, I think there's something about just feeling like we're all human and we can all talk about things. You need to be doing, I've got ideas.

We'll talk after it. We've got. I've got ideas. You really do, you do spread the joy. You're an utter delight. And I, you know, I'm very lucky to have interviewed a lot of people in the music industry. And there are a lot of you coming through who actually are making a massive difference. And I love that young people, I love that my daughters think you're fantastic.

That's who I want them to, I want them to see somebody like you, who's open and honest and kind and writes really good music and performs brilliantly, but is also a real person. So thank you for being on this. I think you're all wonderful.