That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Fearne Cotton

Episode Date: January 4, 2021

In this episode Gaby chats with broadcaster and writer Fearne Cotton. She talks about how much she is enjoying her new career direction through her hugely popular podcast and festival ‘Happy Place�� and the importance of living a simpler, quiet life. She discusses the importance of wellness being something that is accessible and free to everyone. They reminisce about ‘Top of the Pops’, their love of 90s Saturday morning television and Fearne getting her first presenting job at the Disney club aged 15! She recalls how she met her husband, musician Jesse Wood, on a night out in Ibiza and knew he was the one! They both talk of their admiration for Fearne’s sister in law, artist and designer Leah Wood. Produced by Cameo Productions, music by Beth Macari.  Join the conversation on Instagram and Twitter @gabyroslin #thatgabyroslinpodcast You can listen to Fearne’s podcast ‘Happy Place’ wherever you get your podcasts. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and thank you so much for tuning into that Gabby Roslin podcast. In this episode, I loved chatting to the wonderfully wise Fern Cotton. What an inspiration she is. We talk about how much she's enjoying her new career direction through her podcast and her Happy Place Festival, of course also the name of her fantastic podcast. And also she talks about the importance of living a simpler, quieter life. We reminisce about Top of the Pops, her love of life. and kicking and getting her first presenting job at the Disney Club aged only 15.

She also tells me how she met her husband, musician Jesse Wood, on a night out in Ibiza. We talk about how gorgeous sister-in-law, artist and designer Leah Wood. Actually, we talk about everything. I completely fell for Fern. What an inspiring, lovely, lovely girl she is. I hope you enjoy it. Hello, Fern. Hi, Gabby.

Hello, my darling. Oh, that's so clear. Well, I've just literally finished my radio show in the same setup under my little duvet den that I've created in my stepson's bedroom. So should it all sound good. How are you making the duvet? I mean, how are you making the den? How are you making a duvet? It's so annoying.

So luckily my stepson's just gone to uni. I know. I've overtaken this whole room. So I've got a desk with, this is ridiculous. A desk with a laundry basket on top with a duvet that goes from there to a chair that I then use as a. a desk as I put my laptop on that and sit on the floor so I'm completely surrounded by duvet it's really good for radio it sounds like a little studio set up but because I don't think anything is going to really change any time soon I'm in the middle of building a little studio at the end of

the garden because I don't know how much longer I can keep doing this so and my husband can use it too then so we're just going to get that sorted so is that a shed or is it a studio oh okay it will be a glorified shed with um you know I'll make it look all sort of of Nordic and pretty inside and then have a little studio set up. So yeah, it's going to be nice. I've got to the station now where I've got, I didn't know I had so many fake furs. I'm very anti-real fur, won't go there. So I've got all my fake furs around. I was looking and my daughter's duvet and she always says, why do you use mine? And I said, I don't know. I just have done and that's what I'm going to carry on doing. It works. It works. It really does. When you said goodbye to

your stepson, it's a strange feeling. Oh my goodness me. I did it like. year. Oh my god, son or daughter? Daughter, my oldest daughter. Yeah, it's really weird because you know, you have a feeling that that moment's coming and we were sort of a bit in denial about it and it's just really weird him not being around. And also because he's now got this sort of life without us and he's got his new mates and he's in his halls and he's doing his own thing. Even when we text, he sort of doesn't text back for ages and it's like, oh, my God, he's really gone off into the big wide world without us.

But yeah, I don't know what's going on because of all the ridiculousness and he's up north. I don't know, he might even come back. So we're just trying to suss that out at the moment. I have to say, I do, that's who I feel most sorry for. There's sort of two age groups of kids. I know you've got little, little ones. But I think there's, I think the little ones I worry about, the sort of six, seven, eight year olds. And then I worry about the 16 to 20.

And I'm pleased that my oldest started uni last year. so at least she's gone back to a house. Exactly. And she's formed those friendships and relationships. But as a newbie at uni, God, it's tough. It is. I just feel like that generation have been failed somewhat because it's, you know, it's a right of passage

that they would go and have this amazing liberation and freedom and sort of decadent, hedonistic couple of weeks and then start their journey into adulthood. And it just feels like that's been really stripped away from them. And it's just, and also what happens next. You know, this is about their future and their careers and the path they're going to take. And I just feel really sorry for that generation.

And I hope that we can support them going forward in new ways and find, you know, something to give them some security. I mean, there's lots of people obviously struggling with that at the moment. But I really feel that generation have missed out on so, so much. It's horrible. Do you look, I use somebody that looks to the, future or do you look in the past or are you are you I know you love that book as well the power of now I love a bit of Eckhart you know what I I definitely always try to be in the moment throughout the day as

much as I can but I guess the thing that's brought me the most pain has been looking at the past I think if I look forward I can still be very optimistic and and excited about the unknown I find that always an extraordinary concept and something that I like thinking about. But I think if I focus too much on the bits of my past like everybody has that we don't like thinking about, that I still don't always find peace with. So I think staying in the now is imperative for our sanity, really. And that's not to disregard what happened in the past. I don't think it's as simple as pushing it to one side but I think finding peace with what's been and also being able to look forward without dread. That's what we're all aiming for, I think.

But it's much easier said than done, of course. And there's so many people that actually don't feel like that. And I get so many, and I know you do as well, but I get so many people contacting me through social media just saying, I feel crap today and I don't know how I'm going to feel tomorrow, but I'm scared of tomorrow. I mean, your Happy Place podcast is fantastic. I mean, you're an old hand at this podcast, Lark, and you're brilliant at it. But all of those things, suddenly have realized the power of words.

And I always have, I've only ever wanted to do this my whole life. And suddenly you realize that people want to listen, they want to learn, they want to, they want a hand to hold, they want somebody to listen to them. And you've been doing this since you were 15. I know. I know. I know it's terrifying. I'm 40 next year. So you go, wow, that is actually a very long time.

time to have been doing. About 15. I know. I know. But I feel it's strange because from 15 until probably 29, 30, I really was doing the same thing. And I had the same goals, the same aspirations. And I really felt like I was on some sort of linear path to God knows where. And then for the last sort of, well, maybe not even eight, nine years, maybe less than that,

maybe sort of five years. I've changed my whole career. outlook on it. And with that, where I want ahead and what I want to achieve and what makes me tick. So I feel like, although I started work very, very young, I feel like I'm back on the first rung of the ladder in the best possible way. Oh, wow. And I'm really in an explorative era where I could go off in any direction. I'm not even sure where I'm headed yet, but I'm really enjoying the newness of it and learning again. You know, I'm back to. I'm back to. I'm, I'm back to square one with, you know, talking about a subject matter that's newer to me and something I'm

deeply passionate about. And you can never stop learning about life, which is all happy place really is, is just discussing life and our coping mechanisms and our thought processes. And you can never stop learning. There's always another amazing philosopher or world thinker to talk to. So I feel really excited again, which is a joy. This is sort of chapter two now. And it's a, I feel it's a privilege to be in the position of starting again a later point in life. But also, Happy Place has led you to do your festival. And mutual friends of ours were involved in that. And they loved being a part of it.

And it's about you wanting to spread that goodness and that way of life. And it feels that you're being very inclusive and you're being really, it's like you want to take your arms around everybody and go, come on. Come on, we'll just do this together. I think it goes back to what you just said a moment ago about, you know, I also do have interesting conversations with lots of people who might contact me on social media or stop me in the street. And I think one of the biggest things is people just want to be seen and heard

and not in a way where they want glory or power. They just want to be understood and they want to know that it's going to be okay. And I feel the same really often, you know, I just want someone to say to me, don't worry, it's all going to be all right. And I think that's all we ever really want. And there's a strange new movement in the modern world, in the Western world, which is this thing called wellness. And I sometimes get sort of lumped in the wellness category.

And I never feel completely comfortable with it because I don't necessarily align to what that means in the modern world, which is a sort of very shiny new yoga leggings, green juice kind of thing. And for me, it's not that. You know, I'm from a working class background, and I didn't know about any of this until I have my own sort of experiences of feeling awful. And I really do believe that if I'm going to use the word wellness, it needs to be for everybody.

And not just about being, you know, doing yoga, being able to do a handstand or whatever. It's about simply feeling okay and finding a few coping mechanisms, whatever they are. And they'll always be free. It will be found in nature. or found in changing your habits or whatever, it's not about having to do a meditation course

or knowing what cheer seeds are. It's about finding everyday coping mechanisms that will be free and there for you to tap into if you want and to talk to everybody about that. So, yeah, I think because I've been sort of lumped in that category, it's made me feel deeply passionate about wanting to ensure that we use the word wellness appropriately. and for everybody because that's, of course it's there for everybody

and it's not something that you have to pay for or whatever. It's just all about learning new techniques and learning new ways of thinking about things. It's very interesting. One of the things that I'm very passionate. No, two things I'm passionate about. Kindness, spreading kindness and laughing. And when people talk about you and we have lots of mutual friends

and they adore you, I mean, they absolutely adore you and they'd say you're so kind and you're also completely mad and you love a giggle. And to me, that is the perfect mix of the perfect. I know there's no such thing as perfect, but I'm going to just use that word for now. It's just a delicious, there we are, a delicious mix of the person that should be around everybody. And that's what they all say about you without fail. It's so nice to hear. You know, my life these days is smaller and similar.

And it's, you know, I've got the people in my life that I absolutely adore. And it's not a huge group of people. I don't go out partying. I don't have a sort of vibrant social life. I'm a real hermit and a homebody. But the people that I love accept that fully and don't mind at all. And I get to do really homely things with those friends. And a lot of them are really, you know, similarly minded.

And, you know, I try my best to be a decent. friend in, you know, in the way, I guess, of just sort of listening and talking to them and having really lovely conversations because I know that my life isn't the same as it was in my 20s perhaps where I could go out all the time and I had no responsibilities and I would, you know, be going to music gigs or going out for dinner or whatever. And I, you know, I've, I think certainly as you get older, but also when you start a family, you really have to look at your priorities more than ever. And for me, my main priorities are really simple and it's family and it's work because they're the two things that I adore and that I want to put everything into.

And that's not to disregard my friendships. They're so, so important, but they have to sort of fit into my new life because I'm not the same person I was in my 20s. So now it is about having Sunday lunches at our house or taking the kids to the park with some friends or, you know, just things that are small and cold. rather than it being, you know, outlandish behaviour in nightclubs or whatever. It's changed a lot. So, yeah, I'm glad that most of my friends have been very patient with that sort of lifestyle change.

And also just how I've changed as a person over the years that I, for my sanity, need a much calmer, sort of simpler existence. And I feel very lucky to have the friends in my life that I have. They're bloody amazing. Well, they think you are. So there we go. They really do. And you know the ones I'm talking about.

I do. I so love those people. What about, and okay, so we're going back to work. So you do the radio, you're doing Happy Place, you're doing the festival, you've got your paints, you've got your food, you've got your clothing, your homeware. I mean, you're this incredible being now who does all of these things. But can we just go back to basics and Top of the Pops? I'm really sorry, but there's something that I love Top of the Pops. I still do. Every Thursday night when I was a child before you were born, I knew that I had to sit. there in front of the telly. I wouldn't go on the sofa. I sat as close as I could to the

telly. I was there. I was in it. I was lucky to present it once with Jamie Thiexton. You then became the face of Top of the Pops. Is it still happening? What's happening? I mean to me Oh please more Top of the Pops. God, you know what I've, so I was so, I was so lucky. I started doing regular Top of the Pops when I was about 19 and at that point there was a producer called Chris Cowie, who was very rock and roll and cool. And he was awesome. And it felt like a party. And I was sort of excited slash terrified because it felt like, oh, I'm with the grownups.

Now I'm playing with the grownups. And this is really mad. And we would do the show and it would be so high octane and chaotic and wonderful. And then you would go backstage and everybody would hang out. It was like you would have imagined it back in the day. It was, you know, you'd turn one way and there's Simon Lebon and turn over the other show. and Mariah Carey's there. And it was just bonkers.

And it was so magical. And I think back to that era a lot. And then I did it on off for years. And then that morphed into doing the Christmas show, which we still do. I went through a real period in my late 20s after the show had finished. Because I think it finished and I was about 23, 24. Bad decision. Bad decision.

I know. I sort of campaigned. Like, please can we bring it back? Like, why is there no decent music TV? obviously there's brilliant Jules Holland and stuff, but we need more sort of just mainstream music TV. And again, again, I've just been told it's not wanted or whatever. And I just don't understand it.

And I know times change and things move on, but I do feel quite bereft over that one still. It was such a beautiful era of music television. And feeling, you know, even before I was presenting it, when I was at home watching it and studying it, you know, again, like you, it was such a big part of my week and something, that I would never miss.

And it was really special as a music fan to have that experience of watching all these different bands perform and be in that environment. And I do still feel it's a huge shame, but I just don't see how it could come back after all these years. Both of us are Saturday morning telly, and I did it for years and you did it. And Saturday morning telly is not what it used to be.

It's all cookery shows and that's great cookery shows. And I, you know, I'm not ever going to say anything negative about any of those people or any of those shows. But Saturday morning tele was just another rite of passage. And it was, you know, adults could have their hangovers. Kids could watch it and they knew that they were safe watching it, but it was a bit risque. I loved presenting Saturday morning telly.

Oh, it was so amazing. It's the best thing. That should be back. I think, and everybody, because it's all ages, everybody just needs some anarchic TV. Everything's a little safe. I know. I know.

And I think there was that beauty. of knowing that you were watching it with loads of other people at the same time. It felt like an event every Saturday. And because it was live, you didn't know what was going to happen. And everyone was on it. It was so exciting. And again, before I started hosting like Disney Club and Dig It and those shows in my early sort of mid-teens, before that, I would never miss an episode of live and kicking.

I was so dedicated. I would sit there from after the cartoon, the raccoons finished right through until midday. I don't know what my mum and dad were doing, but they didn't ask me to stop watching TV. I would sit there for five hours without moving and just love every minute. And it is a shame, but it's weird because, you know, I watch how my stepchildren and my own kids imbibe TV now. And it's such a different experience because they go onto Netflix, they pick whatever show they were watching the night before. And it is sort of less event-led. It's just, oh, I like this show and they watch the same thing again and again.

So that sort of desire has gone. You know, and even my kids now, if they're watching something in real time, which is very rare, they go, mum, make the adverts go away. And I'm like, I can't. You're watching the telly. And they don't understand. They've got no concept of live TV. It's all about on demand and skipping the title intro, whatever.

And I don't know. I think, you know, it's just everything's moved on so much that they, I'm not sure they would even understand what that would mean to have a live Saturday. morning TV show. But it is such a shame because there was such excitement around, oh my God, schools out on a Friday, tomorrow, there I am with Zoe and Jamie or Philip and Emma, whoever was hosting at the time. And you just felt part of it. And it was just a beautiful thing. I think there is a lovely feeling of everybody coming together. When the Queen's speech happened in the beginning of the pandemic, everybody sat down to watch. I know. I know. Wasn't that a moment?

It really was. And, yeah, I think those moments, maybe they are more special now because they're few and far between. Because we really, we don't have those moments. You know, my two, my kids are five and seven, my younger two. And they go to bed quite early. So I don't keep them up to watch stuff like Britain's Got Talent or what. So they don't even have any concept of what those shows are because I put them to bed at half seven. So they don't really know.

But I'm sure down the line, maybe we'll get back into watching stuff like that as a family. You know, we have movie night every now and again where we'll pick a movie and watch it together. But yeah, that sort of event thing's gone. And it also, for me, you know, growing up, I was such a big breakfast fan. And I would watch you and Chris and just be just completely obsessed with what was going on. And there I would be sort of sat in my, you know, awful blue and grey school uniform thinking, I don't want to walk 40 minutes in the pissing rain to go to school. I want to be with these guys having fun doing these crazy things at 7, 8 in the morning and looning around.

and, you know, with all these amazing guests that you'd have on, like, on a Monday morning on the TV. It was just, it was all so brilliant to watch and be part of. And it did drag you out of, like, for me, a sort of working class suburban experience into like, oh, my God, I'm in this cool gang who hang out with cool people and do crazy things. And you did just feel like you were part of it. It was amazing. Anarchic telly, bring it back. It needs to happen. Yes.

Now, am I right that your dad was a signwriter and he did stuff for live aid? Yeah, so my dad only retired last year, actually. He's the most amazing man. So he had been a signwriter pretty much his whole life. He had a few eras where he was a milkman for a bit or whatever. But signwriting was really his whole life. And he was amazing at it. So he, up until last year, he had a workshop within the Wembley estate.

and he would do all the sign writing for Wembley Stadium, Wembley Arena, all through the years. So he did that forever. He did all of their signs. So back in the day, if there was a big concert on, and it was all hand-painted back then. Oh, how beautiful. He'd print out the pictures of the band and then hand-write the sign, and he'd climb up on top. And I'd get to go down and visit him and watch him do all these cool things. And so he did wheel out this story a little while back when I was doing Live 8.

And he said, right, well, when Live Aid was on, I was a tiny kid. And he had done all the signs for it. So the Wembley guys had said, look, why don't you come down and watch the show? So he and my mum went down and I was left with my nan. And apparently I kicked off in a major way at my nan's house. And she rang and said, you have to come and get her. I can't deal with this. And they had to leave Live Aid.

And they watched, I think, like, two bands and then had to go home. So really awful for my name. parents but yeah he's he's he's an amazing guy and he's he's beautifully artistic still now and he makes signs for fun and also he paints a lot beautiful pictures of flowers and landscapes and it's kind of where i get my arty side from so yeah he's he's amazing you do all that as well see i i i that your artwork are you going to do more of that because when you post some of those things it blows my mind i mean you are so talented it's something that i just need more time to do because a you've got to really be in the right head space and mind to do it and also if i'm

going to do say a portrait I need at least a whole day clear where I have no other work obligations the kids are at school my husband could do the school run so I can really get into it and I get into this beautiful flow where time doesn't exist and no worries are present in my head and it's so amazing but I think you know up until this year Honey was at home because she was tiny but she's at school now but then works just been luckily this year very busy because I know many people haven't had that luxury and I feel very, very lucky that I've managed to keep working throughout. And I just haven't had the space to do it, but I love it so much. And I think the older I get and hopefully the more time I have, because I'm only trying

to do things I really, really want to do that I'll be able to combine my work with other passions like that, like art and sketching and painting, and just also do it for me for fun. But I haven't, I haven't stumbled across those days yet. Hopefully they're in the near future, but it's something that I enjoy massively. Are your parents super supportive? I mean, you speak so beautifully of them. But are they super supportive of you going into Talley at 15?

Were they supportive and are they? I mean, they're very chilled out in a sort of sense that they would never have forced me to go down any route I didn't want to. Same with my brother. So, you know, my mum was working full. jobs at the time when I was a teenager she was an author Don Tisner she was cleaning people's houses she was delivering clothes packages she was just it was non-stop and I think for her to see you know my dad was obviously signwriting at the

time and I think for my mum to see that I A had a passion and and also this career path was weirdly opening up to you know me this sort of random school kid from the suburbs that she just thought bloody hell go for it you know go for it and make this your thing so my nan took me to a lot of the auditions back in the day because my mum would have been at work and she just let me crack on with it and you know I missed a hell of a lot of school um I missed a lot of GCSEs and important exams but my mum luckily was just always like just do what you want to do like life is short go for it do the most exciting thing possible like my mum's a bit of an excitement junkie

so she was like just go for it you know enjoy it and let it be crazy and whatever so yeah they've they've they've both been very supportive over the years and proud but not in a sort of overtly sycophantic way. They're very chilled, like not much impresses them. You know, if I'm to say I'm working with so-and-so, whatever, they're like, okay, cool. Anyway, we've just been to the gardening centre or whatever they're up to. So it's a good combination of being proud but not blowing smoke up my ass. So it's, yeah, it's good. But didn't you get your first job through winning a competition?

Yeah, so it was a strange one because this was before the sort of the birth of reality TV. And I went to a ton of auditions. And then one audition that I went to was for the Disney Club job. And it was for the role of a new presenter. So I went through a regular audition process of me and loads of kids who were sort of wheeled in from all the big drama schools like Sylvia Youngs or whatever. So I felt really paranoid because I wasn't from that background at all. I went to like a local dance club in a church. And then I got through the first sort of four or five rounds of regular auditioning.

And then they wanted the last round of auditioning to be an on-air audition. So I was with two other girls and we had to do an on-air interview and an on-air piece to camera. And then the audience voted for who they wanted to be the new presenter. So it was sort of a regular audition. process with a weird competition bit tagged on the end. And that's how it all started strangely. How wonderful though. And then of course Radio One was a big, I thought you're fantastic on Radio One.

I really did. And when you left, I think like a lot of people, and I'm obviously older than the demographic for Radio One, although I always hate that because I always say when somebody says, oh, the show is for what age group? I go, for everybody. Yeah, of course it is. Absolutely. Absolutely.

But Colplay did that song when you. I know. Oh my word. I know. It was so weird because when I left, I was about five months pregnant with my daughter and seriously hormonal and weepy anyway. And then all of a sudden they had these moments that I wasn't expecting. I just thought I was going to do a normal show and say goodbye at the end and then, you know, sort of roll out. And you had this like beautiful voicemail from Dave Grohl who I'm completely in love with. My husband's fine with that. He's accepted it. and then Chris Martin writing this song which was called Gone but Not Fern Cotton which I thought was very clever and I just cried the whole show and my lovely friend James Bay came into the live performance

and I just cried I barely spoke a word for the last show and it was amazing and it was a whole decade there and it was I learned a lot because that was my first crack at radio and I started on a sort of 4am shift and then moved my way

through the schedule to get that beautiful music slot. And it was amazing. And then it was just time for me to go. You know, I was having my second kid. So that was, you know, then four children with my stepkids. And I felt like I needed a new chapter. And I was also really keen for somebody else to have a go at it that was, you know, really hungry for it.

And I'm so happy that Clara got the job and that she's still doing it and being brilliant now. So it was a lovely decade, but it definitely felt right to leave then. I love that show. It was very weepy listening to it as well. But you have, of course, married into, and I, you know, everybody goes on about, you know, the rock and roll family that you married into. Your sister-in-law, I think, is a complete and utter divine being, and I love her art so much. I love her. Learish, I was just talking to her this morning.

She's so funny. Like, the voice notes that she leaves me are, like, she knows how to bring joy into my day. She left me a ridiculously hilarious voice note this morning. and she's just amazing. I absolutely love my sister-in-law. I'm very lucky. I don't have a sister, so we call each other's sister from another mister

because we just love each other. She's amazing. She really is. I went to see one of her exhibitions of her. I love her paintings. I love her wildlife. And honestly, it was like, I mean, I'd never actually met her,

but I treated, I sort of, I practically picked her up with her mother, who I've interviewed and met, and lots of times, your mother-in-law. But I practically picked her up

and said, can I take you home? I just think she's a bundle of loveliness, so please centre my love. Oh, I will. Lovely, Leah. She's so amazing. She really is lovely. What makes you laugh? So we ask everybody this, and they always give me a very serious answer, and then they realise that it's the warp things that make them laugh. So what makes you laugh? Hmm.

Honestly. What makes me really laugh? I mean, if I think to more recently, it's been a bit of a crap weird year, isn't it? We've really tried to seek how. laughter and one of the ways my husband and I have really belly laughed together was watching Shits Creek on Netflix which is one of the most brilliant bits of TV ever we watched all six series during lockdown and I cried with laughter and I've now got my mum on to watching it I actually forced my mum to get Netflix

because she was like I don't need Netflix I went you do get it and now she's so engrossed in Shits Creek so that that just shows again like the joy of TV and that escapism that we all need So definitely that. And then, you know what really makes me laugh? So whenever I do any sort of photo shoot or anything that requires me not looking like I do right now, I have these two amazing mates, JJ and Schneid. Even saying their names makes me want to burst into laughter.

So JJ and Shanade are two of the funniest people ever. And if it's me, JJ and Shanade, and they're both my daughter's godmothers. If we're in the same room together, we will, by the end of it, be having to, like, cross our legs because we are laughing so much. And it's just silly shit. It's not like we, there's no sort of joke telling. It's just sort of observational ridiculousness. JJ does, like, really good, hilarious impressions of people. And Shnade's just got, she'll just give you a look and you go.

So for me, if I'm in a room with those two, especially on a shoot, because we're meant to be, like, very well. well-behaved and we're on a time schedule and everyone's waiting for us. We turn into sort of 14-year-olds and they are friends that will be in my life forever. And honestly, it made me laugh more than anyone. They're just the best. I love them. Well, JJ's your makeup artist and I've known JJ a long time. Do you know her? Very well.

And I have to say that she's one of the people that I was thinking of say that she loves you so much. But when she talks about you, she beams all of them. over her face. Well, I'm the same with her and you know you feel so lucky to make friends you know later on in life because I think I must have met Sheneid when I was about 19

and then JJ not until I was about 24 because she was my makeup artist on the extra factor and we just clicked and hit it off and they're just the most beautiful people and even if I don't see them for a month or two it makes no difference we have no expectations of each other

whatsoever we just go straight back to where we left off. And for me, that's what proper friendship is all about, really. It's very interesting. If I was to choose a word that you said a lot in this, it's friends and friendship. It's obviously hugely important to you. It is.

And I think everything that's been bubbling under perhaps before this year has sort of been pushed to the surface because we're not able to contain anything at the moment because we're all dealing with the unknown and we're all just shuffling through the day as best we can. I think in those moments, you really work out what's important to you. And I've really realized definitely, well, I've always known it, but the importance of friendship,

but really individually looking at those friends that I love so dearly and really honoring what they bring into my life, because I think we haven't all been able to see each other as much. And I normally have like a party in the summer in the garden with all my mates for my birthday. And we just those sorts of moments haven't happened. So I think we've been really trying to just keep in touch as we can on the phone or seeing each other in small groups or just one on one. And it's so integral when you're going through stuff to have those people that you can rely on

and they can rely on you. And it's magic. You know, these people aren't related to you. They're not chosen for you. They're people that just arrive in your life. And there's such beautiful. in that, them just sort of turning up out of nowhere and bringing something really important into your world. I think it's this year I've really, that's been highlighted to me greatly.

How wonderful. That's so wonderful. I'm thinking of all of the people that I know that you're friends with and actually, there's obviously a man, DeByram, who we both love and adore as well. I love her. What a good soul. What a good soul. She's another one that cracks me up. She's always up for just messing about and being silly. and oh, silly is actually, silly is really important because who needs people, don't take yourself seriously, there's no point, nobody else does, so don't bother it. I have never done that because I've never thought I needed to be or that I was cool enough to sort of be, try to be serious, absolutely not. Being silly is imperative and actually on one of my silliest nights ever, I was with Amanda in Ibiza,

the night I met my husband. And we've got all these pictures of us being absolutely. I mean, we're wearing sort of colourful wigs and dancing. We're absolutely drunk as can be. And it was just one of those ridiculously silly nights. I've got the most amazing photographs from it. And yeah, that's the night I met my husband, bizarre. Oh, how lovely. How did you meet then?

Was it literally across the room? Yeah, it kind of was. So we had gone to Ibiza. There was five of us. And we went to this sort of club slagery. restaurant on the first night. I know I'd come out of a broken engagement and wasn't really up for kind of partying,

but I was like, oh, it will be fun. It's with these amazing women who I love. And weirdly, another mutual friend just happened to be, who knew all of us, was in this same bar and restaurant. She came over and was like, oh my God, what are you doing here?

She said, I'm hosting a table for work because she was an editor of a magazine. And I don't know anyone. Please, will you come over and just sort of say hi? because I feel quite awkward. So I was like, oh, yeah, of course, I'll come over. Went over and he was, Jesse was on the table.

And I was like, maybe I'll stick around at this table a bit longer. And then we talked all night. Jesse and I sat whilst everyone else was dancing on tables. And we sat and chatted until seven in the morning. I mean, those days are long gone. I go to about half nine now. But we just talked and talked and talked. And it was incredible, like just a magical moment for sure.

And you knew he was the one. Did you know there and then? I kind of think I did, yeah. I think I felt a bit terrified because I'd just come out of something, you know, a very long relationship. But equally I was sort of ready to allow happiness back into my life. So yeah, I think I had an inkling that it was something special. Oh, how wonderful. Also another highlight must have been. Now, when I didn't realize you did this because I've sort of passed that age, my kids were too old, but you were one of the voices in the Telly-tubbies. Yes.

What? Yeah, well, I still am. Yeah. So, yeah, so one of my, again, very good friends, very, very old friend, Maddie Darrell, who was the first person to hire me. She hired me for the Disney Club. I auditioned for her back when I was 15. And she's always been in my life.

I don't see her as often as I used to because we've both got kids and she has a crazy busy schedule. She's one of the sort of pioneers of kids TV today. And always has been a real maverick in that sense. She's an amazing force. And she did the sort of the, the sort of regenerating of Telitubbies, brought it back to life, new, bigger, sort of better looking set. And she said, do you want to do, do you want to voice the voice trumpets? And I was like, okay.

So I am the voice trumpets. And then occasionally, I think a talking telephone and a talking envelope, I think, in a couple of episodes. So yeah, that was, that was a bizarre but brilliant moment. And have your kids put two and two together and realised that that's mummy? They did, when they were smaller, we did watch it here and there, and they did think that was quite hilarious. But I guess it's strange for them because, you know, they might see me on, like they've seen me if I've been on, like, Lorraine or something,

and, you know, Jesse's shown them on the TV and whatnot. And then equally, if Jesse's been on any music TV shows or their granddad, you know, so they have this warped sort of sense that maybe anybody in their life could be, on the TV and it wouldn't be out of the ordinary. So I don't think they really care because it's not really anything out of the ordinary for them. They're just like, okay, cool. Oh, there's mum again.

Oh, there's granddad. Oh, no. Oh, there's somebody else. I mean, it's sort of inevitable that they're going to end up for. I mean, everybody always says that to me and both my daughters are sort of doing this one to. But it is sort of inevitable, but we can be realistic, can't we? We can tell them the good stuff and the bad.

stuff. No, definitely. I think if I don't really care what they end up doing any of the four kids, you know, they've all got sort of, you know, loose dreams. At the moment, Rex is dead set on being a train driver. That's his dream job. Good man. Yes. Yeah. And my stepson wants to work in sort of film production. So, you know, I'm easy. Whatever they want to do great, but I think if they ever did want to go down the path of doing something in the public eye, that's the only bit that I would worry about the actual job itself you know knock yourself out do whatever makes you happy but I think the being in the public eye bit is the the bit where I'd have to sit them down and really talk them through it because it's horrible I don't think there are many good bits of

being in the public eye there's a there's a beauty in having a connection to lots of people and being able to do stuff like a podcast and and talk to lots of people on mass and and have you know really important conversations and equally listen to opinion on mass in that way. But when it is just simply you being sort of judged outwardly, you know, by people that don't know you, I don't see many positive. So I would have to definitely guide them through from experience and try and protect them from the really awful side of some of that. So, yeah, I think that's the only bit that would make me feel a bit nervous, I think.

What do you, when you hear young people saying, and it happens a lot, that they say, oh, well, what do you want to do when you're older? And we all say it to young people. And it is patronising, but I never mean it a patronising way when I say it, but it does sound a bit patronising. But what do you want to be when you're older? I want to be famous.

To me, that blows my mind because I don't quite think they've thought, they can see you've got millions of likes on Instagram, which isn't real, obviously. You've got money that's not real life. That doesn't make somebody happy. You know, you've got people throwing things at you. But I don't know what they want to be famous for. No, it's a horrible myth of the modern world that that equates anything because it doesn't.

I think the only thing that can come from being simply known, and I'm taking out of the equation, achievement, skill, hard work, because that's a totally separate thing. If it's just fame that we're looking at, it equals nothing. It equals perhaps feeling quite paranoid when you walk out the house, perhaps being judged in a way that you don't deem appropriate or you feel like you're misrepresented by a public opinion when it doesn't feel in any way representative of who you are.

And if you do make any sort of mistake or you do something wrong, then it's the worst thing in the world because you've got this huge reflection back at you saying mirroring what you feel about yourself saying you're awful, you're this, you're that. Being famous doesn't equal anything. It doesn't mean that doors are going to open for you and you're going to have this, you know, lavish, wonderful lifestyle. And even that doesn't mean anything, as we all know. I think if you do something really well and you love it, whatever that might be,

And then for some reason, the byproduct of that is fame, then fine. You know, you'll find a way to cope with it. But the bit that you'll enjoy is the job, the learning, the skill, the goals, and keeping curious about something. You know, I think there's also this myth that once you reach the pinnacle of whatever you want to do, then you're going to feel complete. Like if you're the biggest TV presenter in the world, or if you're the best footballer ever, or if you're the most liked influencer on the internet, then you're going to feel complete.

And I think, you know, I know from experience, having hosted some big TV shows a long time ago and being on, you know, stage in front of lots of people, that is not going to negate any of the, you know, the inside struggles you might face or the things that you might be feeling or outside circumstance like loss, you know, loss of people in your life grieving,

illness, trauma, it's not going to get rid of any of that. So there's a huge myth around sort of reaching a place and also fame that don't exist because for me being back on the first rung of the ladder in this new sort of career that I'm in, the joy is not knowing what's happening next and being curious to learn more. That's the good bit. The good bit isn't going to be, you know, in 20 years when I've reached all the goals, hopefully, that I want to reach the good bits now. And I just think it's a common myth that I'm passionate talking about because I sort of reached a good place in my old career with being on a big radio show and whatnot. And you don't feel any different about yourself. You've still got all the same shit going on.

So you just have to do something you love. And then whatever the byproduct of that is, you know, you cope with that. Do you know, the wonderful thing, about you is and take this please as a compliment that is meant that for a young woman you have very very wise soul you really do you have a very old head on a very young body and long may you carry on spreading what you want to spread no i mean i thank you i think you know i i've lived a very chaotic and intense life from the age of 15 where i learned a lot of lessons the hard way and i have experienced lots of things to the extreme. And, you know, that's where you learn.

None of the stuff that happens that's negative is sort of to be written off or you've got to honour that stuff. Because that's why I'm now able to make choices that work for me, which is about living more quietly, learning to say no to things. I'm not even talking about work. I'm talking about social things or whatever. and doing what's best for you rather than what the outside noise tells us. So I'm still learning that one. I by no mean, cracked it. But I think because it was such a strange, you know, life that I led up until my early 30s,

I was able to understand a lot of stuff around this subject because I reached really big heights of cool things, but I still felt like crap. So, you know, I think I'm lucky that I've had those experiences good and very bad to get me to a place where I've got a little more inner peace with where I'm at and a lot more curiosity about where I want to go next. Learning is the most wonderful gift that we're given. It's the best. You can never be bored. Bless you, Fern. You are a joy. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. My darling. Thank you.

Oh, thank you. So lovely to talk to you. You know, growing up, I used to just adore watching you on TV. And it's so weird in a way to be sort of sat here, being interviewed by you today. It's really wonderful. So thank you so much, Gabby. No, it's my pleasure. Thanks, Gabby.

Thank you so much for listening. On the next episode of the podcast, The Very Glamorous and Fabulous Tan France. That Gabby Rawlsend podcast is proudly produced by Cameo Productions, music by Beth McCari. please press the subscribe button and it will come straight to your phone on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you choose to listen. Also please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts.