That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Greg Wise

Episode Date: October 24, 2023

Actor Greg Wise, joins Gaby Roslin, for a chat about life, the universe and joy! Greg is known for The Crown, Strictly and Military Wives - but alongside his acting, he's also an ambassador for The Good Grief trust. In this episode, he talks about the privilege of looking after his sister in the last few months or her life, and what he's doing to encourage conversations around grief. And he talks about the little things that bring him joy, including planting trees and celebrating life in the small ways to the big ways... Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Gabby here and welcome to reasons to be joyful. The nights are drawing in, aren't they? And at this time of year, I need a little pick-me-up to help me through the cold dark days. Well, luckily, today, I'm joined by the actor and all-round joygiver Greg Wise. He certainly lightens those days. We hope you enjoy listening to it

as much as we enjoyed recording it. Yeah, yeah, yeah! Nymphomaniacal Alice. There you go, that's the first line, two words. Okay, this is the best line. way to start the podcast, go. No, it can't. Why is it too rude? It's fantastically rude.

Okay, do the other one then. There was a young man from Leeds who swallowed a packet of seeds. In less than an hour, his bum was in flour and his willie was covered with weeds. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Greg Weiss. Good morning. So what time did you say you get up every day? Half four or five o'clock normally. And then what's the first thing you do?

Have a cup of coffee. Straight away? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And back in the day, a flag as well. Oh, I see, I didn't know what you're going to say. I don't know what you were going to say now. No. But no more smoking anymore. No, no. I'm a good boy. I cycle everywhere.

I said, well, you did. You turned up with your cycling helmet and you're not quite like Chris. No, no, no, no, I'm not a mammal. Oh, thank you for that. I'm not a mammal. No, no. It's just something strange about Regents Park and they're all, you see, everybody's everything. I know. It's fantastic, isn't it? Everybody's everything. Greg, though, it's so many things that I want to talk to you about and so many things that we probably can't on this podcast. But it's very interesting.

When I mentioned that you were coming on the podcast, people went straight to different things. So I'm going to go with the three things that people went straight to. And you might be surprised. Okay, it's not Mrs. Greg, I'm talking about. They didn't go to Mrs. Greg. They went straight to the crown. Interesting, isn't it?

Yeah. It was extraordinary. I mean, that whole. show is extraordinarily, it's much bigger than anybody ever imagined it being, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, oddly, because I did the first... Yeah, you're in the first one, incarnation. Still my favourite.

And we kicked this off, not having any idea, A, if we were just going to get a kicking and no one was going to watch it, because it's a very particular story you're trying to tell, a very precious national story. but what was gorgeous about it was after all these years of work I mean I've been 32 years I think working now when I started doing BBC dramas doing the posh stuff they used to be time

there used to be money we used to be able to make extraordinary pieces of work and then the time and the money got less and less and less but to step onto this Netflix show where they actually had a bit of cash and they spent the cash on screen that was remarkable that was wonderful being able to take over Ely Cathedral for a week

and do various weddings and funerals and things like that. I think we were very fortunate in the first couple of seasons because we're far enough away from today to make it actually a drama and a story that people don't know about. I think our next-door neighbour but one, Imelda Staunton, has just finished being Queenie, just filmed the very last. Oh, that's it, done, right.

Now that's in the years 2000s already. Very recent memories and we're very beloved. Yeah. And I think it's a wholly different thing than what we made. Because we were still making a historical drama in a way. And I suppose we had more leeway a little bit. But it was an extraordinary thing to do. Did it change things for you?

Did it change the way people see? because other people who've been in the crown that I've interviewed also they can't believe how it changed the way they were perceived in sort of the wider world for that action. What's interesting, I'd never been in anything that is on everywhere all of the time. Really? Because normally you do a bit of telly

and it's on a Sunday night at 7 o'clock. Oh, I see, yes. And on a Monday morning, people nod at you in the street or, you know, oh my goodness me, I just saw you on the telly. this is on everywhere across the world all the time so it is very interesting we shot seven years ago I think the first the first season or even eight years ago

in the first season and yet I'm still got I've still got people coming up oh I just watched you last night yes what on the crown so something like that is very interesting you know fame walking down the street

having people studying that's so interesting because I was talking to a lovely lovely actor who played Ron in Parks and Recreation. And Nick Offerman, and he, I said to him, do you know when people are coming towards you, whether they're coming towards you as Ron or as one of his other shows? And the same to you. Do you know now then? Can you tell that somebody's looking at you and thinking,

oh, the crown or... No. Oh, you can't? No, no, because, again, a lot of stuff I've done over the years has found itself on various streamers, so stuff is still around all the time. but it is really what's really interesting of the difference between telly and film

I've had arguments with people on the tube that I have been at a dinner party in their mate's house when they were there sorry I said I wasn't there no no no no no I know I know I know you were there yes yes yes they feel they know you it was actually was Bill Nye in one of the first actually the first telly I did a million years ago and he said you've got to remember that we appear

in people's front rooms and a close-up on a telly is the size of a head. So they're looking at your head, looking across at the mantelpiece, looking at your head, and somewhere in their subconscious afterwards, they think

he's been in my front room. So it's... And of course, going to the cinema is something completely different because you leave your house, you go to a big dark space and your head is 40 foot wide. So you're not as real.

You're not in there. I have to say, The reason I was smiling so much is because when I was 18, I walked down the street and I saw this man and I said, oh, hello, Mom and Dad, Clive and Jackie, send their love. And he said, oh, thank you, sorry, Clive and Jackie. Yeah, Mom and Dad, you were there last week. And he went, oh, good, lovely, can you just tell them that Michael Cain said hello?

And then I went, oh, no, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was exactly that. But that's it, that's it, that's it. And often, often, often, often I get that, absolutely. Oh God, we had this wonderful moment in a restaurant. You're talking about Mrs. Greg? Mrs. Greg. Dame Mrs. Greg, we were in a restaurant a million years ago

and an American woman at a table nearby just sort of glanced over at Em, smiled and nodded. No, we get that a lot. As we were leaving the restaurant, she said, Barneys, isn't it? What? Yeah. You sold me my brar in Barneys?

Oh, no! Yes, I was in the lingerie. Department of Barneys in New York. Hello, I'm Emma. Natasha. Richardson, yeah. No, she's dead. They think she's Natasha Richardson?

She's been everyone. Really? Yeah, yeah. People get a little bit over-excited and their brains go a bit strange. How funny. So, okay, you've gone to Mrs. Greg. We're not going to Mrs. Greg yet. No, no.

Because I love the story about how you two started dating. and I've now heard her side, Kate's side, and I haven't heard your side, so we'll come back to that. But the other thing that people said, which I was quite surprised, is they went, Strictly! Yeah. Did you imagine that that would be the thing that people shouted out with all the acting? Talking about being able to walk down the street,

I, foolishly, didn't do my due diligence and had never watched Strictly before. Is that really true? Yeah. You never had. No. I haven't watched telly for 40 years probably. But... Did you never watch yourself in the Crown?

No. You're nodding, no. I'm shaking no. Really? You're shaking your head. No, not nodding, yes. You're shaking your head, no. Okay. Okay. I believe you. And I didn't quite realize quite what an institution strictly is. And I'd have one day off a week on a Sunday and be desperate just to get a bit of fresh air and go for a war.

or Amstead Heath or something, I couldn't really do it because everyone was jumping out at me, talking about it. And I finally realised it is, I mean, I think at its peak, it gets 10, 11, 12,000 people. Yeah, it's massive.

And you had the loveliest dancer to dance with as well. Beautiful Karen. What's fascinating about it is probably only a week, two weeks after I got kicked off, I could walk anywhere I wanted. No.

And that's fascinating. I remember a million years ago when M and I were outed by the press and my dad said, don't worry, today's headlines are tomorrow's fishing. When you were outed? Yeah, we were... When it came out that you two were together? Yeah. Right.

Yeah, yeah. And he said, don't worry, today's headlines are tomorrow's fission chip wrappers. And it's right. People are that, you know, suddenly you're the centre of all things, and literally the next day... It's gone. There's so many bits I want to pick a part. I think I want to go back to you, not watching you. television for 40 years.

Somebody who's obsessed with television. Really, nothing. You watch films? Watch films. I stopped watching TV probably when I left home. Do you have a TV at home? Does Mrs. Greg watch TV?

We were just given a new TV by a producer person that M's probably going to be working with because she'd sat in some meeting going Oh no, we can't find We can't find Netflix and Amazon and this and that on our telly It's I don't know Anyway, this gorgeous man, Ash,

while we were away at the cottage, arranged for a telly to be delivered to ours So we can... Have you turned it on yet? We've turned it on and watched a bit of the Netflix. What did you go to? What did you watch? You're blushing.

We watched. Yes, he's blushing. We watched. We watched Searsher Ronan, lovely Searsha. In Hannah. Okay. A thriller, Joe Wright directed. Okay.

Which is great. But I watched a lot of telly as an adolescent, left home, and then that was it. And really, since 85, I don't think I've turned the telly on. That's incredible. Did your parents, did they watch TV when you were at home, though? We didn't really. We didn't really. No.

No. No. And in fact, now, I mean, it's very interesting. Working in a discipline and not watching. so I will go for meetings with various directors and stuff and the agents say, oh, you know, they've just done, yeah, and he go, what's that? And they go, oh, God.

It's in season three now. You better watch at least a couple of them. All the things that I, you've got. Succession, Ted Lassow, all those things. People actually get, not that you're becoming aggressive, but people get quite aggressive about it. How can you not have watched da-da-da-da-da-da. Now, the problem is there's so much stuff to watch.

It's like when you go to a book shop, and you can lose your mind because you think, I will never read all of these books. So should I just stop reading completely? Oh, no, never stop reading. Or cherry-pick the things. So do you read books? I read.

Okay. What book you're reading at the moment? I'm reading the hidden life of trees or something. It's about insects that live on trees. Oh, I love you. I'm a bit fixated by trees. No, so is my husband. You get on very well.

He's got so many books on trees. Yeah, and I do a lot of tree planting. So I'm fascinated by the 360 different things that will live on an oak tree, that more things live on a dead tree than on a living tree. Isn't that? I love all of that. You were just talking about Hampstead Heath here in London, and there are so many in the UK, we've got so many amazing places that we can.

I walk everywhere, like you cycle everywhere, I walk everywhere. But just taking in the tree. I love trees too. I completely get that, completely get that. Actually, maybe now's a good time before we go to that story. Can we just talk about the work that you do with the good grief trust?

Because I know that's something that... I mean, you do a lot of charity work and you and Mrs. Greg do as well and you're very passionate believers. You're passionate about the environment. You're passionate about people and you care. Without making you blush,

you do truly care and you put yourself out there. But I know you've been working with the good grief trust And it's important to talk about grief and loss. Yeah, yeah. I was privileged to be able to be my sister's full-time carer for the last few months of her life back in 2016.

I say privileged because I'm self-employed, because I had a very understandable family, because I could drop everything and just move in with her. And I lived with her for about three months. as she was dying of bone cancer, which is not a nice one to have. And she had, when she'd started her chemotherapy for her breast cancer, started a little blog just to let her mates know what was going on. And when she became too ill to continue it,

and I moved in as her carer, I took it over as a sort of protection because I was having to field phone calls and texts and emails from everyone going, What's going on? What's going on? So this was just a bit of protection from me. This is what's happening. Dada, here we are. And I was having to spend every waking hour in the flat with my sister. She didn't want to see anybody else.

So I was going slightly bonkers with that. And oddly, the writing at the end of the day, the real-time writing of the blog and sending it out into the ether, was a fantastically healthy and nurturing part of the day for me. but I was always holding back exactly where my sister was in her illness, in her journey. You were holding back to you or to her? To them. To the people you were contact on the blog.

As a sort of protection. Then I thought, no, this is mad. Why am I trying to protect anyone? So the style change. This is where we are. This is what's happening. And then it became because it's about spending time purely on one's own. She because she was in such pain she was so heavily medicated with the oxenorms, oxycontins

That she was probably asleep for 22 hours a day and yet I had to be on call for her so you start to think about life and death and the universe and everything and and and real time writing at the end of a day takes you in all these different places anyway She died. I was latterly approached by a writing agent whether I would ever think about publishing as a book. And

we did finally. And I said to the publisher, this cannot be edited because this was written real time. And oddly, the angriest and most frustrated I ever got with my sister was the night before she died. But I didn't know. Understandably, though. She was going to die the next day. We were just getting to a point where

was just getting mad. Anyway, this book came out called Not That Kind of Love and really resonated with people because of Claire's honesty, candor and humour, my sister, and then me stepping in as the brother who's trying to learn how to be the carer and trying to navigate through all the things that he had to navigate through.

and what is the privilege of it. It was a privilege that my sister allowed me to do the thing, take her to the shower in her commode and wash her and to do all the things and change her catheter, bags and everything else. And it was a privilege to be able to share that in a hopefully healthy and helpful way with other people who are going through a similar journey. And the privilege is absolutely balanced by the trauma of it.

Because the universe is balanced. And the love you feel equals the grief you will then feel. And it opened me up into the world of dying, end of life, care, grief. I was very fortunate enough to find myself on little book tours with an amazing woman called Dr. Catherine Manix who used to run the hospice in Newcastle who'd just written a book called With the End in Mind talking about End of Life

and she and I became this sort of odd double act she was the professional, I was the idiot but we would speak together to groups about end of life care and about death and dying and that opened up this incredible world we have seven million carers in this country. And they never, they... If they were paid the living wage,

it is the NHS budget again. So just finding this world and meeting the carers. Seven million. Seven million. And an awful lot of them are kids. An awful lot of them are kids. But the Good Grief Trust approached me. I think almost,

when they were starting out themselves and they're a wonderful organisation because they are an umbrella started by a wonderful woman called Linda whose fellow had just died and she couldn't, she didn't know how to access people to help her and her GP didn't know and then she just went online and found someone

who was absolutely perfect to be able to help her in her grief. So she started this charity which is an umbrella of I think 900 different charities. under that, all about grief, how to deal with grief. But it's so important that we talk about this, because it is the inevitable thing. It is going to happen to everybody.

And it's, I mean, years ago, people didn't even say the word cancer. I know, I know. So my mum died 26 years ago of cancer. And she just got, we were sort of at that stage where we could talk about cancer. It wasn't just the, you know, people didn't whisper it. And my dad had bowel cancer at the same time. But we do interviews and people would say,

can you not mention bowel or bottom or poo? And he went, no, I will. I will. I will. I will mention it. Surely we're now to the stage where we've got to talk about grief. We've got to talk about loss. We've got to talk about end of life. Because it's going to happen to everybody. It's become my mission. I think, interestingly, as a result of the pandemic, I think people are more open now.

No one was immune to someone close to them. Yeah, you're right. Dying or knowing, or a good friend. Knowing somebody. Yeah. So, oddly in the last couple of years probably, there's been a slew of books written about grief. And because I'm, I just won an award.

Did you? Congratulations. Thank you very much. What award did you win? I won the Demystifying Death Award. Get in. The de-mystifying death award? The de-mystifying death award. Who gave you the de-mystifying death award?

It's a wonderful Scottish palliative crowd called Good Life, Good Death, Good Grief. Because I bang on all the time about it. And the point is, and the reason we're here, this is a podcast about joy and life and everything, that this is about the same thing. That if we're able to talk about the hard things, in a gentle situation, over a drink, over Sunday lunch, with mates in a pub, going off for a walk,

that takes away the darkness. You know the derivation of the word obscene? No, please tell me. Is obscener off stage. So anything that happens out with our sight is most scary. And of course death happens out with our sight. We don't talk about it. It's the thing, I think it's the dark places.

There's a lot of elderly people, and young people, of course, as well. but I think a lot of elderly people have a fear, real fear. I know very old people at the moment who are very ill with dementia or illness and there is a fear in their eyes because it's the unknown and because it wasn't talked about. Wouldn't it be wonderful that if in years to come when we get to that age, if we can live that long, that we don't have that fear? So start the conversations now.

Start talking to your kids now about it. Start talking to your mates now about it. I bang on a lot. And it isn't morbid. It's about living. It's about how one wants to live. We need to talk about how do you want to live? How I'm living now.

Good. But I've written my advanced plan. I've got everyone I know. I've sent it to them. I've put my death box together. Deathbox in things that you want your kids to have? Deathbox as in where's a spare set of keys? What's the password for this?

Oh, that's very good. Who are my pensions with? Okay, okay. What's my NHS number? All of these things, because when my sister died, who was in denial literally until her last breath, you don't get better from bone cancer. But she was in denial about it.

And that was how she dealt with things, and that was fair enough. But trying to unpick everything that she left, the mess that was left behind, me on a phone with whoever it might be, credit card, phone provider, whatever, explaining for the fourth time, no, they can't talk to the account holder.

I've just told you the account holder's dead. This is such good advice because everybody would have gone through that. And please, please, please, please. Can you find a different way of saying no? Now, within the death box, you've got all of this information. You've got all your passwords. You've got where everything is. What's fascinating at doing this stuff after my sister died,

which I'd had to do with my mum and with my dad, is some companies, when you say, hello, I'm just phoning because those just died, and I thought, let me put you through to our bereavement department. Well done you. Other crowds will just keep saying, no, no, no, account holder, account holder, data protection, data protection, as if no one's ever died under a Vodafone contract.

That's crazy. The team behind you are nodding. Yeah, yeah. It just makes so much sense. And it's not rocket science. Because we are all going to die. I'm so sorry, we're all going to die. So let's just put that to one side.

We're all going to die. Okay, so what happens when we die? We want to be able to sort everything out because we're dripping with grief. We want to be able to sort everything out cleanly and clearly. And we want to talk to people who are understanding, compassionate, and who have probably also had these same phone calls. Gone through it themselves.

Yeah. And it's not rocket science. It's not difficult to do. It's not difficult to do at all. But you, in the time that you are here on the... the planet, I get from you that you are very positive. Like I said, I know you and Mrs. Greg, celebrate the planet, celebrate life, are very passionate about environmental issues.

And that probably helps with how you are about death. And I think that a lot of people who feel that they haven't fulfilled their potential or they haven't lived their dream or life is really tough and it is for a lot of people we are utterly aware of that that they find the thought of death then terrifying because they haven't reached the place that they wish they had yeah yeah so so so have the idea of mortality you know Caesar as he was going to get his laurel crown had the slave behind him whispering memento mori memento mori remember you will die so at the moment when he's the most powerful, the happiest.

There's someone just saying, and you will die. Now, that's great. So every day you get up in the morning, go, all right, at one point, I will die. How do I want to try and spend the time that I have, the brief allotted time that I have? And that's not being morbid, that's not going, oh my God, I'm in a panic about death. They're saying, how am I going to live so that when I get to the point, when I'm lying on the deathbed, I'm not racked with regrets, remorse. You're quite right.

That's all it is. I couldn't agree with you more. I really, really couldn't agree with you more. And death and climate change, also very interesting. When I have the chance, I'm going to start banging on and making some noise about composting. Composting. Composting bodies. Oh, bodies.

There's a new thing that was in the papers, recently about flooding bodies. Yeah, yeah, no, no, but that still uses a lot of, yeah, water, which is how... Yes, but what happens to all the liquid? Tutu. Archbishop Tutu went that way. It's a water cremation. Still uses a lot of... Allegedly, one produces one cubic ton of carbon when you're cremated. That's not great. No.

That's not good. Getting dug in? Fantastic, but there's fewer and fewer places where you can get dug in. Do you know how long it takes to compost a huge? human body. No, I don't. Come on, have a guess. I would say, months.

I'm going months. You're going months? Under the right conditions, three weeks. Really? Isn't that fantastic? Yeah. I read this wonderful...

Three weeks? Yeah. There was a... Not bones and all? Yeah. There's a... There was a woman in America who was training to be an architect,

like I trained to be an architect. And for whatever reason, started exploring the composting of bodies because farmers did it with or do it with cattle. It's not allowed at the moment. Yeah, you're not allowed, yeah. But she designed pods and she created like a sort of beehive arrangement of pods. And it's being trailed at the moment, I think in New Jersey or somewhere. And the body goes in to this, I think it's a steel pod,

with alfalfa and sawdust and it's moistened and it's kept at a particular temperature and three weeks later I want that that's incredible I want that and can you imagine anything more fun you get a bag of Gabby compost to give to whoever

say plant an apple tree plant some veg do whatever I'll still be singing musical theatre though but it's not Isn't that wonderful? It's extraordinary. Isn't that gorgeous? I'm going to go away and think about that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Join me on the campaign. Composting bodies. My husband would. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So back to life. One of the things that I mentioned earlier was I've heard from Mrs. Greg, the story.

And I've heard from Miss Winslet, the story. What is the story? What's the real story about you and Mrs. Greg before she was Mrs. Greg? When she was just Emma. Is it true? Is this all true that you dated Kate? No. Because Kate said you didn't date. No, no, no.

Right, so the papers have just made this sort of holding up. What? Where does that come? Are you serious? Papers make things up. Hush my mouth. So that's what the story they all love, don't they? Oh, she was still with her first husband. You started dating Kate.

It's because people don't listen. They don't concentrate. All right. There we're concentrating. The story. It's not a story. What actually happened was I have a witchy friend called Heather. And before we started filming, my witchy friend got in touch with me and said, you're going to meet your wife on this film or whoever you're going to be with. I love witchy friends.

Oh, we all need a witchy friend. And I said, okay, excellent. And I had a little look around. And the only person that was single and available was Winsler. And God bless her, the gorgeous Winsler, didn't do it for me. And I thought, okay, my mate Heather's wrong. She wasn't because it was... It was Emma.

It was Emma. But did that, did you, when did you clock that Heather was right? Let's put it that way. Probably halfway through the shoot. M was married at the time. I don't think had been the happiest of... And that's public... Yeah.

And he moved out and she was very, very, very sad. Very sad and broken. And we found solace. Oh, and did you call Heather? Was she the first person? Oh yeah, I mean And then Heather was part of the first few years That we were all, that M and I were together

And part of the gang But we had to be secret about it Because Em was married and she was famous And I was this guy, you know, three years out of drama school And that's why we were... Was it that? You straight out of drama school? How long have you been together then?

Oh, 28 years. Oh, happy enough. Thank you very much. Yeah, we got together in 95th, May 95. So you had to keep it quiet, but that must have been quite fun though as well. It was great fun. Of course, fantastically romantic. While you're shooting a fantastically romantic piece of work with me playing this extraordinary lover

who's also very fallible and needs money and drops Winslet's character and goes off with a, rich woman and then realizes he's made a terrible mistake and da-da-da-da. So, I mean, fantastic. And a beautiful summer and filming in the most amazing places. And I'm on this great, big white 17-hand libidt's on a horse called Big George and riding carriages with Winsler and we go up on one wheel when I take a corner too fast. You know, it's just beautiful. And then when it had all finished, we were papped and was papped leaving a house that I just

bought and it was a building site at the time. And I had to hide. I had to run away. You had to hide? I was about to go and film in Australia. So we were given sanctuary by a mate of ours in a house in Highgate. I got my sister to go to my house to pack a bag to take it to another mates who then took it

because there was press everywhere. But why? Because, I mean, sorry, I know why. Yeah, because. But it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. They did a bag drop on, I think, Chiswick Park Station,

a mate picked the bag up to drop it off at Heathrow, where I had been surreptitiously taken from my mate's house in Hampstead, get on a plane earlier than I should have done to go and make this thing. And about a week later, in the middle of the bush, in the middle of the jungles in Queensland, in the middle of nowhere, I was papped. You are kidding me. They're very good.

They're very good. they're very good. Well, we know how they've known. Nowadays, we know how they found out about those things. That's just horrible. That's really horrible. But it lasted. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

All these years later and you're... Half my life now. That's fantastic. Greg, do you know what? You are everything that I thought and hoped you would be and you're more. So thank you so much. Thank you for having me.