That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Gregg Wallace

Episode Date: November 7, 2022

In this episode Gaby chats with MasterChef's Gregg Wallace. They of course talk all things MasterChef, Celebrity MasterChef and MasterChef: The Professionals - now into its 15th series on BBC One. Gregg talks openly about his family and home life and reveals what success really means to him. He also tells Gaby all about his newest business venture - a fitness app called ShowMe.Fit which is designed to help people lead fitter and healthier lifestyles. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And welcome to that Gabby Roslyn podcast, part of the A-Cast Creator Network. My guest this week is Greg Wallace, of course, from Master Chef, Master Chef professionals, celebrity Master Chef, all of his travel shows on Channel 5, and he's talking all about his new app. Show me fit, so have a listen. He was great company. Don't forget, you can keep up to date by following and subscribing, please, to the podcast, where a new episode is released every Monday. Leave us a rating on the Apple Podcast app. And whilst you're there, why not leave us a review?

We love to hear your thoughts. Now, on with the show. Greg, you just, I can't believe. So you walked here to do the podcast and you bumped into two people you know. I walk 10 miles a day. I bump into lots of strangers and we have lots of chats. Never people I know.

And both of them were chefs. Tom, who used to be chef of the eagle in Farringdon, the first ever gastro pub, that was. Yes, the eagle. And that's where the rhyme is, around the up and down the eagle, up and down the eagle, isn't it? In and out the eagle.

Egan out the eagle, yeah, yeah, yeah. Pop goes the weasel. First ever gastro pub, that was. Wow. David Eyre. And so Tom there, and then I bumped into the executive chef of the Ivy Group

and just wandered through the road. And he said to me, Greg, are you going to tell me a terrible joke? I have a reputation. Are you going to tell me a terrible joke? I was thinking of going to Shikis and having a plate of oysters for lunch. Is that what you're going to do now?

I think so, yeah, yeah, because on the walk back, I pass the Ivy. and Sheikis and Fish is so healthy. Yeah, it's good for you, yes. All those years ago, many years ago now, did you think that you would be saying, oh, I'll go and get some oysters at Sheikis.

I mean, you're so show beers. I was thinking that. I actually laughed to myself the other day because I came out of a doctor, nothing bad, in Harley Street, and I had a tailored suit on, and I jumped into a prepaid taxi to meet my lawyer at the goring hotel, right?

And I honestly stopped and thought to myself, when did I become establishment? When did I become the people that I used to sneer at? Yeah. Incredible, isn't it? So when did you become that? I didn't see it coming. So when did that happen?

I don't know. I don't know. I honestly don't know when I kind of stopped being a rebel and started being... But aren't you still a little bit of a rebel? I think we all are. I think we've all got our own little calls we'd like to champion that might be a little anti-establishment.

But no, no, I think three children later, you're no longer the rebel you were. But I suppose you're still seen as a bit of a rebel. Maybe, but I mean that in a good way, because of how you are on television, you do so many shows, obviously not just Master Chef, which we will talk about, but the other shows that you do and the travelling shows

and the supermarket shows, all of those things, that people consider that you're not establishment. You're not the person who's going to sit down and say, hello, good afternoon, welcome. Do you know what I mean? You're sort of naughty. I don't think I am. I think people just judge you by your accents.

Do you think that's what it is? Yeah, yeah, of course. Of course, yeah, I'm absolutely convinced that that's what it is. Because I sit at home with a nice glass of wine and read history books, which you would expect people with posh accents to do. But... Why? I have to say I don't.

I don't think like that. I think that's how you judged. I was doing a factory show this week and talking to two of the marketing girls who were incredibly clever, smart switched on ladies. And we were chatting, families and stuff, and we were swapping photos. And one of them saw a picture of Myanna and said,

Is that your wife? And I said, yeah. Show me some more. She said, wow, she's much classier than I expected. What? They did not. Yeah, and this has happened to me all of my life. I think people expect you.

I think people expect you to be a certain, and I don't know what she expected, somebody with orange skin, I suppose, with shorter clothes. What's a very strange thing to say about anybody? But it happens a lot. It happens a lot. I kind of get the feeling that for people,

Posher people, middle class people. I think they were told that if they worked really hard at school, they wouldn't have to mix with people like me. Maybe I'm wrong. So you still think that people are judged by their accents? Yeah, I've got a great story. A good mate of mine, Charlie Hicks, that I started Radio 4 with. We lost him a couple of years ago.

Terribly posh. His dad used to drop him at his private school in a helicopter. And I know. His granddad made a load of money and his dad ruined the business. And Charlie came out and drifted back into fruit and veg where his granddad had made the money. So me and Charlie X were mates. Charlie was terribly posh, terribly terribly

posh, and we were really good, mates. I used to go out to Paris and work in Ranges, the Paris fruit and veg market, once, twice a week for a couple of years. Charlie was out there four times a day for about five years. It was a bilingual Frenchman who said to him, Charlie, are you aware that you speak French with the most appalling working class Parisian accent?

Because he'd learnt his French in the Parisian fruit and veg market. So in England, Charlie was really posh. And in France, he was a complete oik. I love accents. Oh, isn't that fantastic? I love access. Okay, let's go all the way back. Let's talk about your life then.

Because you've got another baby. Sid. Sid, how's Sid doing? Baby Sid. Well, Sid has all... Great name. Well, it was my granddad's name. I love the name.

He's Sid Massimo. Lovely name. Because Anna's family are Italian. So he has autism. He doesn't speak yet. We're hopeful. but he's a happy, cuddly boy. In fact, I'll tell you something that really made me happy

and how much he's developing. I went into the living room yesterday, got on my knees and said, Sid, give Daddy a hug. And he came over, came over and put his arms around. And that's the first time it's ever happened. This week his mummy said to him, Sid, go and get your shoes.

And he looked around and went and found his shoes and came back. So the bad news is that none, of the specialists can tell you how he's going to develop. The good news is none of the specialists can tell you how he's going to develop. I mentioned Sid on Loose Women and just got an avalanche of supportive messages on social media. And lots of lovely examples of parents whose children didn't speak to them, they were nine who were now doing a PhD, didn't speak to. They were 12 and they're now an opera singer.

And it was really nice. Which would you prefer? The opera singer or the PhD? Well, I've said to the specialist, Look, I know he's got problems with his development at the moment, but will he still be able to play open side for wasps in England? And will he still be able to do ancient civilisations at Cambridge? So that's as long as he can do that.

How old is he now then? He's three. Oh, good. And we're going on our first holiday with him. We had a holiday booked in Portugal, and then me and his mum, we went away without him to Spain, came back and thought, we can't take him through this airport experience.

We're not sure how he's going to cope at all. So we cancelled our holiday to Portugal and we're now driving to France. Oh, lovely. Because Anna's mum and dad live with us. He's non-a and he's gamper, as we call him. So we'll have me and mum, nona, grandpa and Sid. Perfect. So he'll be around the people that he knows.

Yeah, and he likes the car. So, yeah. Oh, bless him. His first holiday. How are your other babies? Tom, he's 27, and I'm seeing Tom tomorrow night for dinner at Theo Randall. I love Theo Randall and he's Italian. You and all your posh restaurants.

Yeah, because I was the greengrocer to these poshrest restaurants. No, I know. We're going to talk about that in a minute. They're my mates. And Libby, I run a business with my daughter, Libby, who's 25. We do show me fit together. And she is an absolute pillar of strength. She's a bit of a bully because obviously her dad's old and doesn't quite understand.

the way she does. She has very little patience with me, but she is very talented. I'm very proud of all of my children. Tom got an economics degree, didn't like it, and he's retraining in a counselling. Let me tell you,

you know your children are getting older when they start listening to your advice, right? So Tom wasn't enjoying fire. I said, Tom, do a counselling. And he said, why would I want to do that? That's another suit and tired job. I say, I'll tell you why, because whatever industry you'd like to get into,

television, sport, fashion, music, they're going to have an accounts department. Retrain in accountancy. Don't do the chart accountancy, but retrain an accountancy, and you will be able to move into any industry you like. He phoned me up the next day, he said, my girlfriend said, you're right,

and that's what I'm going to do. Oh, fantastic. So for the last two years, he's been smashing through four or five exams a year. I don't have to do so many exams. Goodness me. So let's go back to being Mr. Fruit and Veg. Fruit and Veg has been a good friend to me over the years.

So how did that start? Well, I left, basically, he was asked to leave school and left home at 15. So you were the rebel then? Oh, cricky, yeah. Yeah, my mum disputes it. She said you were more 16 than 15, but I looked at my children at 15 and 16, and it didn't seem to be a great deal of difference. And so I just did lots of jobs, minicab driving, scaffolding, R-Texing, van driving.

What did your parents do? My mum was a computer operator in the days when you would need a computer the size of a small, room. Of a room. Yeah, yeah, yeah, she did that and my dad was an electrician. Right, okay. But they broke up. So I had no qualifications whatsoever and I just answered an advert in the newspaper for a warehouseman in Covent Garden Market. And that completely and utterly changed me. I mean, I didn't know at the time. But I walked into that environment. It was the first time I'd earn a proper wage. I could, I could buy myself a flat, which I did. I could buy myself a second-hand car, which I did. And my life started to change. And I loved the environment. Absolutely.

Why? Tell me why. What was so special about it? My first, it was colourful. And it had colourful characters in it. And there were lots of people in it. My first couple of days, the owner of the company, Malcolm, shouted down the warehouse to the fullman Jim. Jim, can you shout out the weight of the plums? And the fullman shouted out, the weight of the plums. And I thought, this place is brilliant.

There was loads of banter. Loads of, people were singing. And I thought this is a brilliant, colourful. vibrant, great workspace. And then I thought to myself, right, how am I going to develop from here on in? Because I'm just putting stuff away in a fridge. And I'll tell you, the hardest break to make

when you have no qualifications, is somebody trusting you to, rather than work with your body, moving things, to work with your brain. And if you can make that leap, that's interesting. The rest is easy. After that, the rest is easy.

So with no qualifications, you tend to move things around. You either move them around in a van or you move them around on a building site or in my case you move them around in an enormous great warehouse full of fruit and veg. But working with your brain,

then anything's possible after that. So you say fruit and veg have been good to you. Obviously they have. So you were doing that. So I'm still am fascinated by you, you know, turning up in this warehouse with fruit and veg to the man

who just got into a prepaid cab in a smart suit in Harley Street. And that was via television that made you there. Well, I was already making money out of fruit and veg. I'm not talking, sorry, I'm not the money side. I sort of that side. It's the, it's the status maybe. Is money, is success money to you then? Oh, what a brilliant question.

What is it? Success to me is comfort. Success to me is security. It's safety. That's what makes sense. That's what it is. After more ups and downs than a Canary Wolf elevator, it's security.

It's not wanting to show off. It's having a life that you like and having that life secure, which means not reaching out too far, not being too ambitious. Finding what you love. and making that safe. That's what it's about.

Great answer. Yeah, let me tell you something because I do read a lot of history. The reason we have a square mile in London, and this is relevant to what I was saying, the reason we have a square mile in London and there are square miles all over what was the Roman world,

if the Romans were going to stay anywhere, they built themselves a square mile because inside that mile, they could raise crops, rear animals and train men. They were safe within that square mile. And they wouldn't go any further until they had built that

only ever attack from a well-defended position. If it all goes to hell in a dust cart, you can come back to that bit of security. Keep your bases safe. So is that how it is now for you? Your base is safe. I don't feel safe yet.

Oh really? Yeah, I don't feel safe yet. I see a therapist about this, right? And she said you climbed far higher up the mountain that you were supposed to. So you look down from when you were sofa circuit. You mean you? Particularly you? Yeah. She said you're looking down at where you

started and you think, oh, that's a long way to fall. She said, there's no way you can fall all the way back down to being this homeless kid at 15. That can't happen to you now. The worst that can happen is you'd fall to the ledge six feet below. So it's fear then? It's fear. That's what drives me, yeah. It's fear. So you don't feel

safe? I don't feel safe. Not at the moment. What will make you feel safe? This is what my wife says. She said, otherwise you're just going to keep on pushing forever. At what point are you going to say we're okay, we're safe. I've set a monetary figure on it. Right.

We're probably safe now. But I've set a monetary figure on it. So then it does go back to money. Mm. It's money. Yeah, I think to have, I had none as a youngster, and I felt that poverty quite keenly. I felt embarrassed by

it on a couple of occasions, and I think that's a driving driving force to wanting to achieve. But not so that you have ferrari's and yachts and helicopters and private planes. That's not what I want. What I want is to feel completely and utterly secure. And you feel safe at home though with Anna and with Sid and with your other kids.

Anna and Sid and Anna's parents, Massimo and Rina. I mean, the journalists love the idea that we're all living in this house together. But this strong... It's what lots of Italian families do. It's what lots of families do actually around the world. It's not so unusual. It's not at all unusual in the south of it. No, it's very unusual in the UK.

But that family is security. That family is real strength. That I love. I absolutely love. I mean, I just struck gold when I found Anna. And she came with a ready-made family. And my children, Tom and Libby, who basically just had me as a dad most of their young lives,

just realised its potential straight away and just fell in love with it straight away. Really? Oh, how lovely. Yeah, but one of my proudest boasts is that both my grown-up children, Tom and Libby, were both at the hospital when Sid was born. Oh. Oh, that's precious.

I know, yeah, it's lovely. That is very lovely. We were all on holiday together. This is what Massimo and Rina are like, my in-laws. And the kids were there as well. We had a villa in Italy. And I looked up, and Massimo was in the barbecue, and Rina was going backwards and forwards and forwards from the kitchen getting ice creams and drinks.

Now, no one had asked them to while my kids are just kind of swaning about on Lylos in the swimming pool. They're just golden people. Oh, how lovely for you. Do you cook? You just say he's on the barbecue. Do you cook or is it just a busman's holiday then? No, I normally cook for the family once a week. Only once?

Well, I'm not at home every night. I suppose not. No, I'm not at home. I can disappear for three or four days. I mean, the most I've been away is a month at a time. A month? Yeah. Oh, gosh.

That must be. tough. That was tough, but it was a big adventure. So I can be away three or four days at a time because I don't live in London. We live 60 miles into Kent on the borders of Sussex. So if I go into London filming Marshef, I stay in London. Of course, doing the factories

means they could be anywhere in the UK, now in Europe, so you're away. So I cook for the family once a week. So what did I do? This week, I made them a seafood salad with wild red rice, which was absolutely delicious. And they woofed it now.

During lockdown, we were all together. I cook lunch for the family every day. Good man. And I did the shopping. So I do love to cook. Okay, so let's talk about Master Chef. It's a phenomenon, isn't it? It's a machine.

It's a hamster. I don't know. And I mean, all of those things with great respect. You know, it's massive. Master Chef is eight months of my working year and has been for the best part of 20 years. Eight months. You've got amateur, celebrity and pro. So that's eight months of my working year.

Wow. And it has been for a long, long time. They're very different, the three, the celebrity, amateur and the professionals. Professionals is out now, and it's a very, very different feel to amateur and celebrity. As in they're more competitive or not? It's intense. It's just intense. Okay, amateur is incredibly passionate and I think joyful in that you're watching people change their lives.

I love that. I love it. I love the amateur one. Celebrity is just an incredible amount of fun. Yes, it looks it. Because the contestants coming on to celebrity are used to cameras. They're used to studios. They're comfortable. They're not particularly comfortable cooking, but I find that just to be such great fun. The professionals. It's extraordinary to watch, I have to say.

It really is. It blows my mind. I think we're professionals. you are seeing the epitome of incredible British culinary talent. But you're also getting a window into the soul of the absolute obsessed, reaching every day for something that probably doesn't exist. And that is creative perfection and just seeing, not just the skill set, but the drive of these people is just extraordinary. So do you ever get guilt?

for any of them, if you ever say anything negative. Because actually, obviously there's the persona that you've created for Master Chef, but knowing you away from the microphone on the few times that we've been out, you don't want to hurt somebody. No. I mean, and you've said that to me. And yet you have to be honest, don't you, on the show? You have to remind yourself that you're not saying anything to them about their personality or their private life.

You're critiquing a plate of them. A plato food, yeah. And even though they've poured their heart and soul into it, it is just a plate of it. It's not them. It's not a reflection of them. Maybe that's what makes pro-master chef so intense because, of course, it is a reflection of them. I don't know. I don't know.

Definitely the professional chefs are risking the most by coming on. Because an amateur goes back to their job as a nurse. Or becomes a professional, as has happened. The celebs go back to their careers, probably enhanced because people are falling in love with them on Mars chef. But the pros, if they slip up, that's their reputation in danger. Do I get upset? Yes, I do. Listen, I'm a good judge.

So is John Therode. So are the professional marshal of judges. But I work with John longer and for more time during the year. We are good judges. But you are going to like some people more than others. And when they mess up, it can be really upsetting. Of course. When they have to go and you've actually really grown to like them,

it can be really quite sad. John Therode, as big and tough as he is, I've seen him in tears. I've seen him in tears of frustration that somebody incredibly talented has done something stupid, like stuck chocolate buttons in a cod. It's another thing that I'm fascinated by is the obsession that people have about you and John. I'm amazed how interested journalists are about the relationships. It's obsessed. It's obsessed. They keep on saying they've never been to each other's houses.

Now, I'm going to ask anybody here listening. There are people that you've worked with for years and years and years. How many of your work colleagues, houses have you been to? Why would it be any different to me and John? Me and John are really close. I say this. I've said this. after dinner speaking, it always gets a laugh.

I said, look, the papers say that me and John don't get on, right? So I'm going to give you some evidence here. I'm going to ask you to make your own mind up. So we've been doing MasterChev together for nearly 20 years. He bought fruit and veg off me for 10 years before that, okay? And he was best man at my wedding. Okay, he wasn't best man at every wedding, but he was best man at the last one.

As far as I know, nobody's written a best-selling pamphlet on how TV duos are supposed to work. Now, John and I have found something that obviously works. Yes. Brilliantly works. And what works for us is we are very close for six months of the year. And then we give each other space and time. We text each other. We'll phone each other.

I text John this week from on holiday. He's on holiday. Yeah. I answer his messages on Instagram. What I would say about me and John that may be different to other TV. couples is John and I are together on MasterChef, but we also have television roles that don't include each other. Yeah.

We're not together all of the time. There's John and Lisa's kitchen that he does with his lovely wife, Lisa. I do factories and travel and stuff. So we come together, but we also, we're not always a TV double act. But John and I have managed to do this programme happily together for the best part of 20 years. we started this by you telling me about people stopping you in the street and that you knew them. What's everyday folks, these are people that you knew, but what's the reaction of everyday folk in the street to you?

I imagine that people would be like, oh, all right, Greg, all right, get, that they want that because you're chatty and friendly and open on television, I imagine that they're like that with you, or am I wrong? No, no, that everybody's really, really, really positive and really, really friendly. and I think because I've got this friendly, bubbly, energetic persona. And that is me. I don't try any differently when I'm on the television. I just go in with the same crazy energy that I approach my life with.

So people do chat to you. I'm always amazed that you get rude people on social media, but never rude people in real life. They weren't doing it in real life. Yeah. I'm always surprised. Selfies can be an issue. And I don't go anywhere.

Rarely do I go anywhere where the people. public might be drinking because someone will be rude to you thinking they're being funny and it can cause a problem. Because you don't drink now? No, I love what I love a drink. Oh, mate, yeah, I'm often at the rugby floating around. But you've spoken about alcohol and how it affected you in the past as well. Oh, I've reduced

it. I've learned it. And I've done that with the help of Anna. But I tend not to go, I wouldn't, rarely would I walk into a pub with lots people drinking. Selfies troubles me a little bit. Because, you In case you haven't got your mascara on, your lipstick. No, I feel like it's trophy hunting. Oh, really?

Yeah, no one's actually chatting to you. If you get into conversation with somebody and you've built up a rapport and they want a photograph, I think that's great. People that come at you just with their phone out wanting a selfie, I think you, it makes me uncomfortable. Isn't it the modern day autograph that we all used to, I mean, I had autographs when I was a kid and I loved them. I don't know why I had them now, I mean, but I loved them.

Yeah. Is it not the modern day autograph? I've kind of got a feeling it's a little bit trophy hunting. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, I'm not sure whether those people do have any interest in you, but they want something from you to show their friend. Really do I say no, but it troubles me. Why do you, why have I got?

Doesn't everybody want a bit of celebrity? They want it to show their friends. That's what I mean. They want a bit. Oh, look who I touch somebody who touched somebody who touched something, you know, whatever it is. I rubbed elbows with. It can become an issue. I'm learning to manage it better.

So I'm a big rugby fan and I go to lots of rugby matches. And I say no now. And people I think by and large understand, they'll come up to me and say, can I have a picture? And I'll say, I'm going to say no. Stop and have a drink.

Can't have a chat. I'm going to say no because I'm with my son and I don't want to start something. I have no way of stopping. Once you have one, look, there are 600 people here. It's not going to stop. Once you say, yeah, it's not going to stop.

It's going to be the end of, the end of my day. And I think people understand that. I was at my friend's wedding. Danny, he's a Punjabi Sikh. There were like 600 people at this wedding. And I had to say no there because I'd been to,

they have lots of wedding celebrations. I'd been to a smaller party with 300, said yes to a selfie. And it was constant. And then it became about the selfie, yes. It was one a minute. So you have to, at some places say no. I think I must be incredibly unlucky.

Why? In that I've been doing television for 20 years and I hardly ever meet a fan. I never meet a fan. What do you mean? What I meet daily are relatives of fans. How unfortunate am I? My mom loves you.

My brother. Yeah. Why am I not meeting the fans? Because people are too embarrassed. Well, that must have been 20 years on TV. That's so funny. That is so funny. What's so interesting.

about you is, so sitting talking to you, you are about making people feel good. You are passionate about what you do. You love what you do. You love your family. And yet, I'm still fascinated by this fear thing from you. And I sort of want to be able to say to you, you know what, you're okay? If somebody were to say that to you, would you be able to accept it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, well, up to a point, and then the demons had come back in again.

I think the problem with the, I've had businesses, I have another business now. And the problem with television is I'm not in charge of it. I've done very well with it, but I'm not in charge of it. And that troubles me. And your businesses, so you said you learn and then you do things. So you've learned a lot through the businesses. As you say, you've got another business, a fitness business now. I've got the business called Show Me Fit, which is a weight loss and fitness website.

But it looks like an app on your phone. And we're literally helping hundreds and hundreds of people lose weight. And the system we use is unlike any other system. We say to people, and we've got a really good nutritionist called Cat, and I couldn't have done it without her. And it's not about exercise. It's all about healthy eating. It's not about dieting. It's not about being restrictive.

It's about having a really big healthy breakfast. a big healthy lunch and a big healthy dinner, eating three big healthy meals a day. My wife, Anna, has written all the recipes. They get rubber stamped by the nutritionist, and then we film them so people can copy them. And there are 500 recipes. And that's the simple message.

Eat a big breakfast that's healthy. Eat a big lunch that's healthy. Eat a big dinner. There's no way there won't be food you like here. There's 500 of them. But also, I like that you say it's not about diet. I get very angry about the word diet. And I've studied health and nutrition for 26 years because of my dad being diagnosed with bowel cancer and surviving, thank goodness.

But what really annoys me is people go, oh, I've got to go on a diet. No, it's about a way of life. It's about fixing your head and working out what you can and what you can't. Gabby, that's it. I love you. It's official. Oh, thank you. Listen, you know that because you've studied nutrition extensively.

That is what it's about. It's not. D diets do not work. Okay. The idea on January 1st, you are never... Oh, that annoys me. You're never going to be bad again. You're setting yourself up for failure.

Don't go on a diet. Make a decision to be healthier and start eating healthier meals. What you need more than anything else is organisation of your life so that food doesn't happen to you by accident. Make food an priority in your life. I know what I'm having for breakfast. I know what I'm having for lunch. I know what I'm having for dinner.

I know. Why? Because I want to stay fit and I want to stay slim. You can't not have breakfast. then mid-morning grab for a croissant full of butter. You can't then get hungry around lunchtime and go for a meal deal out of a petrol station. There's a packet of christen and a bad sandwich. You can't then come home and think, oh, I don't know what I'll grab for dinner.

I know. I'll phone a takeaway. This is the route to obesity, where you don't need to be clever. You don't need to be restrictive. You don't need to be hungry. You just need to be organised. So you said from businesses you've learnt. So what have you learnt through the other businesses?

Oh, crikey. in a nutshell, what can I say? The more you study your figures, the better they get. I was an older accountant who taught me that. And what he means by that is just always know where every single penny is going. And somehow your business will become more profitable if you've always got it in the front of your mind. When you start a business, don't let anybody in a suit and tie who works for a big company tell you that you don't know what you're doing and they do because they're big and successful. What they know is their business.

What they know is that they've got a product that they're already selling that's successful. They know that after years of trading. What they know is who their customers are. You as a startup, you don't know that. These people in suits and size don't know more than you. They know about their business. You have to find out through trial and error. You.

The person that knows the most about your business is you. Don't go to suits and sides and pay consultants lots of money. Find out yourself. Have you done Celebrity Apprentice? No. That would be interesting. No, no, no. I love business.

Business is great. Business is wonderful. And I've had failed businesses as well. It's funny, from what I can tell, because I read a lot, in the States, failed business, you're expected to fail. Yes, they're all pro-it, aren't they? They say, if you fail in a business, then that's how you then eventually succeed. Yeah, failure is seen as a very different thing. Yeah.

Well, I mean, I've taken the same approach to marriage. But, yeah. America, you're supposed to fail and that's how you learn. Over here, if you fail in business, people think you're some sort of crook. And I don't really understand why that... Do you think that? Do you think that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, he went bustowing loads of people money.

Yes, he had a limited company. It failed. Probably the one that lost the most money was the person that owned the business. It's, yeah, you have to... How else are you going to learn if you don't try things and fail? But a lot of people, a lot of people, a lot of people are actually going back to the word fear but a lot of people are so fearful

of failure, they're so fearful of trying because also society tells you that you're not good enough when you can't succeed and you're not going to be able to do it. Listen, I've spent two years having lots of conversations every week about people about weight loss

and I didn't understand fear of failure. I honestly didn't understand it at all so I had to do quite a bit of research. Really? You didn't get that? No, no, no. It's never, it's not, had no part in my life at all, like fear of failure. I don't really know what that means. You know, just give it a go.

So I've got friends with a psychologist, one guy, Dr. Kev Dutton, who actually lectured psychology at either Oxford or Cambridge. Sorry, Kev, I can't remember now. But he's been a great help to me. And fear of failure is a real thing. I just, I just didn't know it. But the way to attack it, fear of failure, is to not give yourself any targets. And don't tell anybody.

So that way, if you haven't set any targets, you can't fail. right? So if it's trying to run a marathon or if it's trying to lose three stone if you don't tell anybody and you don't set a target then all you're doing is trying. You can't fail. That's an interesting way of looking at it.

There are... That's not going to work for everybody. Obviously. It would if you... Some people like to have an end goal. Yeah, but then not those ones that are scared of failure. Right. If you have a fear of failure, you cannot...

Don't set it to end goal. No, that's the way to tackle a fear of failure. I've learned so much. I mean, I literally have hundreds of conversations every week with people trying to lose weight. You know what? The thing that, and I'm thank you for doing this,

but the thing that I hope people get from listening to this is that you're happy then, aren't you? Anna has made a massive, massive impact on my life. An enormous impact on my life, huge. Can I tell you, because I do worry, I do worry about security.

security and stuff. And she said to me, I wouldn't worry. Honestly, we've been together 10 years. You're too clever to be poor. There we go. She's there. And thank you for being here. And thank you for sharing some things that you don't usually talk about. So that was lovely. Thank you very much. That Gabby Roslyn podcast is proudly presented to you by Cameo Productions with music by Beth McCari. If you wouldn't mind, could you give us a little? like, a follow, a subscribe, and please leave a review. We read them all and love to see what you've got to say. See you next week.