That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Jack Savoretti

Episode Date: June 6, 2022

On today's episode of the podcast Gaby sits down with the one and only Jack Savoretti. Fresh from the release of his new record 'Europiana Encore' they talk about everything from his beginnings in music, his family and why now was the time to release this extra special encore edition of the album. Elsewhere in the podcast, Jack talks about his relationship with the music industry and there might even be a little new song involved... Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to that Gabby Rosen podcast, part of the Acast Creator Network. I cannot tell you how thrilled I am that my guest this week is none other than Jack Savaretti. I'm lucky enough to have interviewed him many times, to have seen him play live, and I love his music. He's just now re-releasing Europiana encore. This isn't an advert, I promise. This is honestly from my heart. The album is absolutely wonderful. I can't stop listening to it.

Literally all the time. Anyway, I hope you enjoyed this chat. We have a good giggle, and we might write a song together. You'll have to keep listening. Please, can I ask you a favour? Would you mind following and subscribing, please, by clicking the follow or subscribe button?

This is completely and utterly free, by the way, and you can also rate and review on Apple Podcasts, which is the purple app on your iPhone or iPad. Simply scroll down to the bottom of all of the episodes, I know there have been quite a few now. And you'll see the stars where you can tap and rate and also please write a review. Thank you so much.

I want to speak Italian to you, Jack Severetti. But every time I speak Italian, I sound like an English person speaking Italian. So let's, let's take... That's because you are an English person speaking. Yeah, but it sounds... That's pretty normal. Yeah, actually, yeah, you're quite right.

Let me hear, let me hear. Let me be the judge of that. Bonjourno. Bonjourno. Gavis. How's thai? Mold to be in a gap. You don't sound very.

Oh, okay. You sound very sort of mysterious. You sound very mysterious, but not English. Do you know, I absolutely love the Italian language. I just think it is the most, I'm sorry to all other languages, but I think it's the most beautiful, colorful, and it sings Italian, doesn't it? It's a fun language because it sings, but it also cracks,

if you know what I mean. Like, there are some languages that are so beautiful, but they're almost too beautiful for their own good. I won't say it because I don't want to start any political warfare here. Whereas Italian, it is beautiful, but it's fun as well, which is kind of Italian culture in general. It values beauty and it values beautiful things very much so. But it also laughs at itself. And I think the language very much represents that.

It sounds beautiful. It's poetic. Italians do enjoy the sound of their language. Yes. But at the same time, they do it with a smile rather than with sort of, you know, looking down their noses. Yeah, there are other places that do, which I won't say. Because I don't want to get into travel. No, I'm not going to mention it.

Jack, so you and I've known for a long time, I've been lucky enough to see you perform live. Small intimate gigs, and I've seen you when you first played the Roundhouse, and I remember how excited you were. Does all of the past few years just still feel as magical? Because you're always very wide-eyed about your success, and you're always very thankful.

Do you still feel like that? Yeah, I mean, I definitely feel more grateful now than ever, that's for sure. And that's something that I've been really noticing since coming out of lockdown. It really hit me hard when we went on tour. Because I was talking about this yesterday the day with somebody. And it was about, what are you trying to get from this? It's basically somebody threw at me. And it literally threw me.

And something I really realized, you know, you get successes. You get these little victories, like whether it be a chart victory or sales victory or a good review, all that kind of. At the end of the day, not nonsense, but it doesn't really. give you a sense of purpose. It might give you a bit of a buzz right then and there, but it's not why you're doing it. So even though you get excited about that sort of trophy

or that sort of accolade, there's a kind of emptiness because that's not why you sat down to do this. That's not why you started doing this? So it's about finding why did I sit down to do this? And one thing I've really realized since coming back out of COVID was the connection. The only time you get a true sense of purpose,

I think in anything you're doing is when you connect. And in music, that is incredibly, obvious when you play live music because you stand in front of a room, whether it be two people or 2000 or however many, and that connection is a true sense of purpose. And it's the reason why you go back and do it again and again and again. And I've only really had that clarity since coming out of lockdown and standing on a stage and seeing a room of people that have gotten in their car, bought plane tickets, got dressed up, walked wherever far, just to be there to listen to something that you've made, that gives me tremendous sense of purpose. That makes me realize I love what I do.

And that lasts. That really lasts long. It's not like a short-lived buzz like it is when you get a good review or, I don't know, a certain amount of sales or whatever. So that's been quite reassuring in a weird way. It's been really comforting coming back out of COVID, coming out of lockdown, where I really thought, what are we going to do now? Are we going to still be able to do this? and going back on the road last month and seeing people's faces again while we do what we do and seeing couples dance to a song

or seeing somebody proposed to somebody or seeing a father and son come to the show because there's one particular song they both love and seeing all these different stories happening all around the music because it's not mine at that point, it's theirs it belongs to them in that moment and that gives a tremendous sense of purpose

which I've really re-evaluated and I'm definitely very grateful for having them. You say it makes you very emotional, though, as well. It must be quite something. It's choked me up now more than maybe I'm just getting older. And I think, you know, life gives you more understanding of the value of life, the older you get, whether it be from the birth of your child or the death of a parent or a friend, you know, birth and death, sort of the more those things happen to you in life,

the more you reevaluate life. And that usually happens with age. And so I look into a room and I see so many stories. a lot of them even of my own creation and imagination, but you see so many lives, so many faces, so many stories, and you can't help but be kind of very, well, not kind of, you can't help but be moved by that, especially by the fact that whatever difference is and however different everybody's story is, for some reason, right in that moment you're all together. And the only reason that being is the music that you've been able to put together. And that again, like I said

before, I don't want to overuse the word purpose, but it does give you a tremendous sense of this is my purpose. This does, and that is the feeling I think all humans crave constantly. Why am I here? What is the meaning of this? And you get that sense of purpose in that moment. But you started very young. You were you were writing poetry when you were a small child. And you must have known that. I wasn't that small. I was a teenager. Okay. That's, well, the older we get that smaller. I wasn't some genius four-year-old writing. Okay, all right, I'll give you that. So you were a young teenager. But you must, then, it's quite something for a young boy to sit there and write poetry. And I applaud it. And I think it's

wonderful because words, you created music on the page. You know, words are music. But who was the person, was it your mom who said, come on, make these words, this poetry makes some music out of it? Yeah, it was. I mean, academically, I was a disaster. And that's putting it kindly. I wasn't very engaged with, I love to learn. I'm one of the most curious people that I still know, but I just, that environment didn't really work for me. Tests is like just the word test sends a shiver down my spine. Yeah, me too, get that. And it wasn't for me. And it killed my curiosity to a certain degree. But poetry came around in the curriculum and I went home and I forgot to do my homework as per usual. And that morning, I remember thinking, oh, I was supposed to write a poem

last night and I just sat in the car as I was waiting for my mom and we had this beautiful we lived in Switzerland at the time and we had this beautiful sort of stone staircase that went down into this kind of little we lived in a bungalow on the mountain it was beautiful spot but this tiny little bungalow and this stone staircase that went down and it was very idealistic I didn't know what's what I'm looking for it was it was it was very idling and and there was this carpet of red leaves because it was autumn and I just wrote this poem called the carpet of red leaves. And I took it to school that day and I literally did it in about five minutes in the car. And the next day, it's not like suddenly I got an A plus.

I got a B. But a B in my world was like getting, you know, it was like winning the, it was unbelievable. And I remember my parents celebrated my dad phoned me from abroad. I heard you got a B. Like this was a big thing in our house. And that reaction was really was quite, it was quite something for me. I'd never sort of had that from something that I had done. And it was at that point that I started thinking,

maybe I'm a poet. Maybe I just never knew that I should write poetry. And I wasn't that good. But it was the enthusiasm of my parents. And this is why it's so important to get accolades, but to also give, to give people that support, especially your children. And I decided that was my new thing.

I'm going to start expressing myself through poetry. And it was only within like maybe one or two months of doing that. we had this kind of classical guitar that my grandmother had left us, covered with cobwebs behind the sofa. Then my mom said, why do you try putting it to music? And it was a time where I was starting to show interest in music. I was playing drums at school. And all my friends played guitar.

And I thought, you know, maybe that's a good point. So I did it. I put a poem to music, played it to my friends, but I didn't tell them I wrote it. I remember going to this kind of field where we would go and sort of all hang out. and sort of play guitar and all that. And I grabbed a friend of mine's guitar and I played this song. And nobody said anything.

Nobody said, oh, that's rubbish. Nobody said that's great, but nobody said that's rubbish. And I thought, I think I just got away with it. I think I just played my own song and everybody thinks it's somebody else's. And so I did that for a while. And then slowly, slowly I found the courage

to tell everybody, do you want to hear my song? Do you want to hear my new song? And then I saw people react. You know, I had friends of mine laugh. I had friends of mine cry. I suddenly was realizing that this was like, what do you say, killing two birds and one stone. I was getting stuff off my chest. I was being able to, you know, and I did have stuff, you know, it was that the years of parents

getting divorced, becoming a teenager, you know, from boy to man, trying to figure out the world and understand your place in it. And this was a really lovely way of expressing my curiosity, my fears, my anxieties. And at the same time, those around me, my friends, especially my peers, they were kind of not needing it, but absorbing it and using it. And I thought, this is really nice. I don't have to sort of lecture anybody. I mean, try being a 14 year old kid and going to a group of friends and say,

guys, do you want to read my poem? You know, that doesn't really work. But do you want to hear my song? Yeah, that kind of, it kind of worked. So that's kind of how it all began. But did you have lessons in music? Or you just, it was natural. You just picked up the guitar and could play.

I mean, I wouldn't say it was natural. I learned from, again, my friends. All my friends played guitar. That was kind of the thing. So I would sort of watch them and sort of see where they were putting their fingers. And I would learn about two chords. You know, you can write a song with three chords in the truth, as Bob Dylan said, I think, well, Tom Petty. So I didn't have to learn.

You know, I still can't play covers. I'm pretty rubbish at playing other people's songs. I'm pretty rubbish at playing even my own. No, no, you don't need to put yourself down. You actually are. No, no, I'm not saying that in a humble way. I'm saying it in a true word. Like, I'm not, I'm not a musician.

I'm very musical. I use music, but I'm not a musician. I don't know how to read music. I don't want to know. I don't want to know how them. I still am in awe of it. I still look at it like a magic trick. You know, when I sit down with my band and they play, I'm, oh, I'm more excited than a fan.

You know, I'm more excited than somebody in the crowd. It still blows my mind. And I don't want to know how it works. They always ask me, do you want me to show you? And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Just leave the mystery. Let me do my thing over it. And you guys worry about the technical.

side of it. I don't want to know how the magic works, but I love using the magic to express myself. Okay, so you're using the magic, you're writing, your friends are suddenly all listening, but it all happened quite quickly, even though, I mean, you've been doing this now professionally for quite a while, and now the world is aware of who Jack Savarelli is and your music and your songs. That's what I meant about the wide-eyed feel, because I've been chatting to you at God knows how many years now. And I still feel that you're as you can't quite believe it and that you said about so grateful that it's wow, this is happening to me. And I love that. I think that's precious. I hope you never lose that. I think I hope none of us ever lose that.

I think that's because what you're seeing is my enthusiasm, not so much as what we've achieved, but how we achieve it. It's not so much the result that gets me excited. It's I can't. quite believe we're doing this still on our own time. And this is something, and the only reason I say that is because at a very early age, I was really slapped in the face with all the potential, all the clichés of the music industry, do this, wear that, say this, sing this, look like that, change your name. I got all of it. And I was tempted, don't get me wrong. And I still get temptations. You know, I've still turned down things that I wake up in the middle of the night, cold sweats thinking I can't believe I turn that down. Yeah, for sure. But I always wanted to, after having my

I wouldn't say heartbroken, but after really seeing the side of this industry that is a bit of the oxymoron that is the music industry, I made a promise to myself that I'm totally okay with failing as long as it's me who has failed,

not somebody else that has pushed me off a bridge or somebody else that has put me in a corner I didn't want to be with and then it doesn't work. I couldn't live with that a second time. I'm very okay with not succeeding as long as it's on my... my terms. And that way, even if I do succeed, it's on my, I know why I've got it. I know why we are there. And I have a lot of friends who have had tremendous success, but they have no idea why they're

there. And it really throws them. And they are just as lost as those who fail, not knowing why they failed. So to me, it's just, I had to give value to my choices and no longer be in a position where I could blame somebody. Or it's also a bit too easy, especially in this industry to say, ah, the damn label or, ah, the management. You know, it's so easy to blame. everybody that I was like, no, I'm not going to be in that position. I want to work with everybody in this industry. I want to work with all the organizations. But I want to work, I want to be in a position where they don't need me and I don't need them. But if we work together, maybe we can do something cool. And that's still how I sit and talk to my managers,

my label, my band. Neither of us here need each other. But if we work together, I think we can do something cool. Are you in or are you out? That's how I like to sort of present it. And that's what I'm into. That's what I still can't get over. It's not about, you know, oh, you've got this or so and so said that. It's more like, I can't believe that that's happening with this philosophy, with our own choice of doing it, because it's rare. You know, it's rare to do what we've done in this industry without certain successes. Yeah, no, it absolutely does.

And what's so interesting, I mean, we all know, and I think anybody who's listening to this, and you and I will know so many people who want to be in music. And it's a tough gig. Goodness me. I mean, I know people who are still trying in their 60s, and they've been trying since they were a teenager. But it's tough, and I think that the way you look at it,

yeah, as you say, you've learned, you've gone through those times. But young, it's different now, maybe. Maybe it's different. It's completely different now. And, you know, that was something that we were catapulted into the future in the last two and a half years. Yeah. The technology for so many things was there

that we just didn't use because it's a generational thing. But over the course of these bizarre two and a half years, we all were sort of forced into using the technology that had always been there that we probably should have been using before. But it sort of happened so quickly that we've all come out of this cocoon that was the sort of lockdown period. And the world is 10 years ahead of where it kind of was before, especially technologically, that we're actually using these resources.

My mom now uses Spotify. Put it that way. Like that sounds silly, but that on a global scale, that's massive. That has changed an industry overnight. And, you know, with the phenomenons of TikTok and the phenomenon of the way kids, you know, my seven-year-old son plays games where he's exchanging tokens. He's basically using cryptocurrency on a daily basis. And this is all at seven.

And this is, you know, and people are talking about NFTs and all this kind of stuff here. And you're like, what is this? I was just starting to finally understand. streaming and now we're talking about NFTs and the whole the industry as well as many other industries has been catapulted into the future and it's amazing to watch but it just for us I mean yeah we could we could join the race we could try and figure a lot of stuff out and there is a lot of that that fascinates me and I always want to look forward and follow progress and never fight against it I've always promised myself don't be that guy that says oh it's just a fan and then be left behind

while everything moves forward you know follow follow the wave to a certain degree but at the same time, it's made me really want to hold on to my way of doing things even more so, you know, still moving forward, still being progressive and still acknowledging that things are changing, but also go there with my values, with my principles, with the people that I have found, you know, don't trade it in all for progress. Like, go there together is kind of how I would like to do it. I think that's absolutely the way. And I, this is a strange thing.

It's very old-fashioned, and I know I've said this to you before, but I would, really like that you have good manners. I just think the way you treat people is really well. And actually, I feel that after the strange two and a half years, as we, as everybody, the world knows, that manners are sort of back again, you know, saying thank you. It doesn't mean that you're not cool if you say thank you. You are very, like you said, grateful. You're very, you have manners.

And I think, I think that goes a long way. I really do. I totally agree with you. It's something, you know, I'm very stubborn with my own children. I've really realized, you know, my father was adamant that whenever anybody care, I always, this sounds silly, but whenever anybody came to the door, we had to, whatever you were doing, you had to get up and go to the door and say hello to somebody, God forbid, especially if somebody was coming into the house.

You had to get up, say hello, welcome somebody, this is your house, you're welcoming. But it was literally to the point where if the postman was dropping off a letter, it was like, you know, he would sort of click his thing. We had to run up like soldiers and sort of just stand at the door and sort of, give a, you know, hello, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for doing your job. And I've tried to implement that to a certain degree with my kids. I'm like, get up immediately. Like if anybody comes to the door, I don't care if it's, you know, the president of the United States or like I said, the postman, you get up and you say, thank you. That person has just done something for you.

You get up and you appreciate, you acknowledge this. You don't just sit there watching your TV show whilst the world goes on, you know, and it really gets under my skin if they don't do it. I've realized, Like, it really, it's rubbed off of me, my father's thing. And I think that's what it's about. It's acknowledging. It's not so much manners for the sake of manners. Yeah, yeah. Because that can be irritated.

That can be annoying too. Absolutely. It's respect. Maybe we'll need the word respect. Respect, exactly. Respect. And pay attention. That's what I always say to my kids.

I'm like, pay attention to what's, to those around you. Because that person that just handed you that, what do you think? That's normal? You think that's supposed to happen? But even if it's, you know, as simple as I don't have to, explain it. But just pay attention. And I think if you pay attention, you can't help but be respectful to those around you. Because only if you're paying attention can you acknowledge that everybody's going through something, that everybody's making an effort, that everybody's kind of hard at work most

of the time. But if you're stuck in your oblivion and in your own, you know, me, me, me world, you don't notice that. And you can come across as rude. You can come across as arrogant. And I just don't think that's the right choice. I mean, I know very, I know very successful. for people that do choose that. We both do. We both do. So I'm not saying it's a recipe for failure, but I don't think it's a good way.

I completely agree with you. Can we talk about James Bond? Yes. I don't know how much I can help you. Well, because as you know, you may or may not remember, I think Candleight is a Bond theme. So the next Bond film,

whoever the new Bond is, okay, I'm not saying about you going, I know your wife's an actress, but no, you don't need to be Bond. unless you want to be Bond, I'm sure that they can audition you. But James Bond, Bonn, what would he be called in Italian? Jacomo Bondino. Oh, it sounds even better.

Bondino, Jacomo Bondi. Zero-septo Bonino. But the theme. Now, Candleight should have been the theme. You know, you're not the first person to say that to me, which I always love that. And I actually had dinner with the producer. No. Yeah, I'm embarrassingly forgetting his name.

And my wife had a little bit too much to drink. she started saying his song should have been able to watch. And what did they say? Well, okay. I think he's very politely sort of acknowledged. Okay, well, I'll have a listen. Never heard from him again. Who am I talking about?

This is terrible. Not Barbara Broccoli. No, not Barbara Broccoli. No, he lives right around the corner from me. Anyway. We'll just call him Mr. Producer. We'll call him Mr. Producer. Mr. James Bond producer.

Actually, I probably shouldn't say names anyway. But not name dropping here or anything. But the thing is that Candlelight, it's not that Candlelight sounds like a James Bond team. It's that James Bond themes were very much influenced by the music that influenced Candelight. Let me explain that. James Bond, in those days, well, not in those days, almost always. It's very much based in Europe, a lot of the times in that sort of, you know, whether he's going to Venice or Paris or Munich or there was a lot of you, or the Alps or whatever. So the music that was being represented there was European music, essentially.

very European cinema sort of scoring, very typical Italian composers and that. It was very inspired by that sort of world to represent what he was doing, where he was. And that's the music that inspired Candlelight. I made it in Rome. I recorded it in Eno Moricon and studio, one of the great cinema composers of all time. And I think it's just because of that. But it was the European music that I'm sort of aspiring to. That is what makes you think of James Bond.

But it's funny because I only really get that in England. Like in Italy, nobody would say this sounds like a Bond theme. They would say this sounds like an Italian. Oh, that's interesting. Do you see what I mean? So it was just, it was incredibly European sounding, which I think in England, in a popular culture way, that's always associated so far with James Bond, the big strings, the minor chords and that shift.

It's considered very Bond. But quintessentially, it's just European sounding music. Okay. Well, I'll still stand by. That's Bond. Yeah, it should be. I mean, if Barbara Broccoli is listening, I would love to be. Yeah.

If they call it candlelight, there we go. There we go. It's just a... They would never use a song that's already been released. No. Unfortunately. They would have to be an original. So let's write a new Bond theme now. Let's call it.

What's the Bond? Okay. We'll call the Bond. So what's the... We'll call the Bond. Yeah, no, let's call... What should we name the film? We're going to name the film...

I see you. you. That's cool. Oh my goodness. You're actually sitting here. Wow. I was about to go. I can't. That's it. That's it. That's it. Are we really going to start right?

What was something? But then we'd have to do some dramatic. Oh, you've actually made me want to cry. This is in. That's just so. I've never done that. I like this. I might steal this. I might steal your idea on this. Yeah. So I see you, but I can't feel you.

Oh, look at you. I see you in the darkness of the night. You feel you. Feel your at my mind. The sound of rain raise me closer to you. I can see Okay, this is the most embarrassing thing You've just made

Oh, cry We've just written We've just written the bond themes I see you Oh, and I know this is a podcast And people can't see me But you can see me through the way we're I can see you

Well, I love how we say it, look, we're keeping the song I can see you. Oh, you just made me cry! That's the first time In my 35 year career that I've just said a few words and somebody sat at the piano and done that. Goodness me, Jack.

Family, you've really thrown me. So family is so important to you, aren't it? You're so, you know, the way you talk about your kids so beautifully and your beautiful wife and it's very important to you. So how do you manage that? Because you are touring, you're going off again, you're about to go off again. How do you manage all of that? How does she manage?

How do we all manage it? It's not really, it's all of us kind of having to figure it out. I wish it was just my problem. That's kind of how you go into it. You go into it thinking I can handle this. And then you realize, oh, but she can't and he can't. And, you know, there's five of us now. And that's without the dogs.

There's four dogs, too. But they miss me more than anything. So I think it's more about finding, keeping communication. Loyalty, you know. loyalty is stronger than trust, it's stronger than everything, it's just known that you guys are always going to be there for each other, whatever, whatever the weather, whatever may be. It's just trying to retain that loyalty towards each other.

And as a family, I don't want to sound like a mafia bus here, but loyalty is everything when it comes to family. You know, that is the highest form of love, is to find that loyleness within each other and to try to find that constant sense, of, yeah, I don't know. The only word that I, the only word that sort of comes to mind is loyalty, is feeling that, you know, we will let each other down.

I won't be there certain times when I'm supposed to be there. They won't, you know, be there for me in certain aspect. That's going to happen, you know, that's okay. As long as there's loyalty, that's okay. You know, trust will be broken, hearts will be broken, promises will be broken. That's life. But the only way you can survive all of those things is with this tremendous sense of loyalty amongst each other. And I think as a family, that's something you've got to remind yourself all the time

is that we are forever loyal to each other. Nothing breaks this. And that's what makes family so important because you don't have to say it. You know, with friends and business, you have to remind each other, hey, be loyal. We're going to be loyal here. Loyalty is the only thing that matters. I don't care if you break my trust. I'll get over it because we have loyalty. Do you know what I mean? But as a family, it's unspoken. There's an unspoken loyalty that you have within family that's, to me is the most precious thing there is. And so you also, you, was it your son that wrote, or was it your, because there's a lovely story about writing one of the songs that they gave you a life.

Your daughter, sorry. Yeah, it was my daughter. It was my greatest mistake. And I was, I had the verse, I had the chorus. And then I was really stuck. And I played the wrong note, I don't know. I don't know. I can't remember it.

But I can't remember on the piano. But basically, I got the wrong note. And she was doing ballet behind me. She was about five at the time, you know, in her full two-two outfit, you know, giving it, giving it this very sort of modern dance video. And I remember I was just getting frustrated and I hit the wrong note. And she just sang, we've got to keep on keeping together. And I was like, what did you just say? And she, she was like, I don't know.

She was just sort of freestyling, mumbling. And luckily, my voice, my phone was recording. And I have still the recording where I just went back and this little voice just went, we got to keep on keeping together. And I was like, that's such a great line. We've got to keep on keeping together. And that's now the bridge of the song is that big moment.

And it was really sweet because when we played Wembley, which was probably the most important gig of my career, to be honest. I'm sure. I'm sure. And I had my whole family sort of in the wing up in the balconies on the left. And I remember looking for her and just seeing her when I sang that, I'm actually going to get choked up now, and seeing her, and her face just like,

it was as if she was the only person in the whole arena. And she was just there, like, singing at the top of her lungs. It was very sweet. So they're completely, obviously, they don't know any different. They don't know that dad, that they know that that's your job. That's what you do. You write songs. I know, my son asked me, he said,

we weren't here the other day and I have these, and he goes, Papa, is it? How are the number one album? Oh. Good question. You have no idea. I said, you have no idea, my little man. You have no idea.

And then he was like, he was asking me about other artists. Are you better than so and so? And I was like, well, it's not really about that. And he goes to me, no, but you have to beat them, Papa. You have to beat them. He's recently just discovered sport. He's seven years old. He's discovered football.

So now everything's about like winning and who's the best and who's going to win the champion, the trophy and all that. So it's quite funny. My daughter is very engaged with it. She's 10. And she's really seen the downs more than the ups. She was there. Do you know what I mean?

She was there throughout the really, it hasn't always been so idyllic as it is now. You know, I can safely say when I was writing before the storm, I wrote this album called Before the Storm when my wife was pregnant, and that came out and didn't really do much. And then that was a very dark period in my life. And then we sort of out of desperation or so and so happened. And then things started to look up. My daughter changed my sort of whole perspective on things.

And I wrote this album called Written in Scars, which was basically me telling the story of the dark times. And suddenly the career started to change. There was a song called Catapult on there. Graham Norton invited us onto the TV show. That was a big moment. So was that the sort of the pivotal moment in faith? Yeah, it was interesting.

Which I don't like and I know you don't like it. But suddenly you became more, let's use that word. You became people were more aware. of you. I'm not going to use fame or celebrity. I hate those words. Yeah, you know, with shows like that, like, you know, you go into people's households all across the country. So I'm not saying I became a household name overnight, but suddenly at dinner parties, when, you know, you sat down and people say, what do you do? It was like, sweet. But then when they heard my name, they were like, I've heard of that. They didn't know who I

was or they didn't even really know a song, but they had heard the name. They were like, oh, I've heard of you. That's what changed. And it was interesting. because the album came out actually a year before we got asked to do Graham. And then a year later, we did a sort of repack of that album, and there was a song Catapult on him. And Graham invited us on the show. And I remember I went to him in the Green Room afterwards as a very confused sort of 30-year-old man.

Suddenly, after all these years of working, like, I went to him and I was like, why now? And he goes, what do you mean? And I was like, well, you've been playing my songs on radio for years. why basically why did you never invite me before man i've been dying out there why didn't you help and he goes well i like this one and that was the wow everything i knew to hear he put me right in my place he's like i really i like this song and i was like fair enough but it was really nice to know that it came from him that was also a really that's what that was a big lesson to me as well

like the people in this business matter you know that you think everyone's just a face you know there's And there is a team behind every individual in this game. Do you know what I mean? It's a bit like the swan on the water, all the feet frantically going underneath. And the artist gets to be the sort of elegant thing floating around while everybody else is working. But in this particular moment,

I also realized the value of the person that can give you these opportunities and to respect that and to be grateful. Again, pay attention. Like that was Graham's choice. That in that particular moment, of course, I was super grateful to his entire team. but it was a real like, oh, thank you.

He let me know because this time I liked it. And I liked that he sort of put me in that situation. And radio two have been a huge supporter of yours, Ken Bruce, Chris Evans. Huge, huge. You know, as you and I both know Chris very well. I wouldn't have a career without Radio 2 between you and me. Like, I wouldn't be able to have kept doing this. And I still to this day don't know why they've been so amazingly supportive.

Because your songs are great. Shush. Your songs are great. No, I know. No, I like my songs. I would never put anything out that I didn't like. But still, there's a lot of great, like, they've helped me, and it hasn't always been reciprocated in the sense of my success, hasn't always, you know, necessarily done what I think they hoped it would do. But they've still stuck with me. And that is something that really warms my heart about working with the BBC and Radio 2 in particular, is that they didn't get much from, much back from me, if you know what I mean. Like they really, they took a chance for me. They've, they've got, they've bet on me many times, and I haven't necessarily won the race. And that's been really amazing.

In the end, I've been able, you know, we've been able to sort of have, now I feel like there's a shared love. And it's a very symbiotic relationship now. I love to do stuff with Radio 2. And they love, they're really amazingly supportive of me. But there were many years where I really wasn't giving them anything back and they stuck with me. So for that, I am forever. And I genuinely mean that very, very, very. grateful. That's so lovely. I love that you're grateful for so much. Jack, you also like a giggle. So I remember

one of, I can't remember which event, because as I said, that's the other thing. You do so much for charity. But we were at one charity event and you've got the giggles afterwards and I, for the life of me and I can't, it was something really slapstick. And because I love it slapstick. I love slapstick. I mean, if somebody walks into a tree, that's it. I'm gone. I'm, I mean, it happened. It happened. other day I was on the one show with David Williams. And I mean, this was proper like I almost, it was a real giggles in church moment. I thank God, thank God I wasn't drinking. I was just about take a sip of water. Thank God I didn't because it's live. This is live TV, which is terrifying enough as it is. And David Williams was there and he was being wonderful and charming and witty. And there

there was a few giggles here and there. But then this lovely, this lovely like eight year old kid called Jack, funn enough, they sent a video message saying, David Williams, my favorite book of yours, and so and so and what was your favorite book as a child? And he gave this wonderful sort of, you know, when I was a child, I remember my mother taking my sister and I to this library, and there were all these amazing books. I remember discovering this one book covered in dust and blowing the dust, and it was 50 shades of gray.

And when he said 50 shades of gray, I just was so not expecting it. The timing of his delivery, I completely cackled, like, proper, like, laughed out loud. But then Ronan tried to sort of rein it in because it wasn't that appropriate on an answer. But the minute Ronan said, that's not very appropriate for children. That's what triggered my, oh my goodness, I can't be laughing at this. And that made me, I mean, honestly, I don't know if you ever, I mean, don't go looking for it. I was going to now. I was squeezing the sofa.

My hand was behind the sofa. I didn't also because David started talking about something else then. So the joke had gone. And I just didn't want to be that weird guy in the corner who was still giggling over 50 shades of gray joke. But anyway, it was, yeah, it still happens. I'd be that person too. I get that absolutely. So now with new albums and new tours and everything, you don't stop and that that's a choice, isn't it? Because you don't want to stop. Well, I mean, my philosophy from a very early age, from going back to what we were talking about before about,

you know, the industry taking control of you was that's when I realized I might have to get a job. Like I wasn't going to be able to do this. So my philosophy is always, been, if I work really hard, I'll never have to get a job. That's kind of how I've protected myself from having to get a job. Work, go to work. Go work at what you want to do then. And so that's still very much ingrained in me. And that's how I retain control of what's happening with what I love, which is making music. And it's how I get to keep the guys I love making music with working. You know, I can't take for granted that these guys are just going to sit and wait for me to, you know, be inspired. I got to keep working. I got to keep everybody on my team working. We've got to keep

working and that way we get to keep doing what we love to do. And I just have to have faith that the inspiration and the joy of it is retained by doing that. And so far so good. That is what gives me the greatest satisfaction of all, is keeping all of us working, gives me as much satisfaction as writing a good chorus, so to speak. Actually, I think I value it more than writing a good course. I know that I can sit here and write a song, whatever the weather and whatever happens, but whether I can use that same energy to keep everybody working and keeping all of us doing what we love to do,

that's the real buzz, that's the thrill. Jack, it's really exciting. You've got the re-release happening now. What does that mean to you? Well, I mean, rather than a re-release, I like to sort of think of it actually as a sequel. Oh, good, okay, like that. Sorry, I'm quite skeptical when labels say,

can we do a re-release? because it usually means the first one didn't do well or the first one did so well, they kind of want to milk it. It's one of those two reasons why you sort of want to extend it. Tell us about the sequel. Sequel. Well, that's why I called it Encore because I really wanted it to feel like almost a new album.

Basically, with European, I felt like we built this amazing sailboat that we put so much blood, sweat, and tears in because we made it during lockdown. It really was the hardest album I've ever made. Not so much creatively, but circumstantially. It was just a nightmare. And against the odds, we did it. And it came out and they sort of, we set, we raised the sale and it got to number one. And then just as we were leaving port, we heard like this siren, you know, like,

where we were told, no, back in port. It's too dangerous out there. And we sort of had lockdown 53, whatever it was. And it sort of all stopped. And we never got to set sail. We never got to sort of take it out into the open seas. And that really broke my heart. And I really haven't sort of accepted it.

I haven't swallowed that because it's a beautiful ship that we've built. I think this record is really, it's a real escapism, it's a real journey. There was a lot of craftsmanship gone into it, put it that way. There was a lot of detail put into it. It wasn't done, willy-nilly. There was real thought going into it. So I kind of felt heartbroken that it hadn't been given its day in the sun.

So I said rather than parking that and moving on to another album, let's add another sale. Let's double down on this. Let's add another sail to the European ship and really take it and see how far we can go with it. So that's what we've done. And that's what Encore is. It's like the Spinnaker that we sort of added on this. I don't know why I'm going with this sailing ship metaphor.

You know that I'm a huge fan of that as well because when you did it in lockdown and we talked in lockdown as well. But when that came out, it was the sound that it. Oh, this is going to sound so muso-y. But it was, it sounded like it came from so deep within. but also it was like a breath of, like you could sit back and you can breathe and you could sort of, it could flood all over you. Do you know what I mean?

It's that sort of feeling that album. I loved it, as you know. And it's not me to say it now because I've told you that when it came out. So, but I absolutely loved it. And I'm so pleased that you're, you're encoring it, that you're revisiting it. Yeah, exactly.

And that's why the name came from. It feels like when you finished the show. and the crowd just want more and you want to give them more you're like we're not done yet like this is still got we've still got a few more in us and so we got these six songs on it

dancing through the rain well Iokinum vivo was the first sort of single which is also again showing the love between Italian music and English music and how much European music has influenced music around the world and I really wanted to and I was really shocked that I was really touched

and moved and impressed at the label and radio picked it up, that everybody was like, yeah, let's do this. We got an Italian song, playlisted on radio too. I mean, I think it's been Sinzoukero that. Oh, we had it. We had it on BC London. We played it all the time. Thank you.

Just fantastic. I love it. Yeah, it was really cool to hear that. And it was moving. You know, it was a very touching. It was a moving time for that to happen. It was very poignant for me on a personal level. And then now we've got this song Dancing Through the Rain,

which is just a song about hope. I think, you know, it was a song written by a friend of uncle, Susanna Taylor, who's a journalist. And basically what happened just now with you and me and the James Bond song happened with me and her. We were watching Trump potentially get reelected. It was that morning of the reelections. And I was devastated.

I was really confused and heartbroken, but also really disorientated. I couldn't believe that this was happening again. I understood why it happened the first time, but I couldn't understand why it was happening again after everything we had seen and got to know about this person. And she sent me this poem to cheer me up called Dancing Through the Ring. and I just ran to the piano.

It was exactly like this, this time of day. I ran to the piano and to thank her, I just quickly put it to music. And I sent it back to her in a voicemail. And she was like, oh, that's so cool, blah, blah, blah. And we were in Abbey Road like a week later. And we had finished recording. And my producer says, do you go?

And is there anything else? Maybe while we're here, we've got like one more, like we had one more day. What can we do? And I said, well, I've got this song. And so we put it down. And my band reacted to it. I mean, I think Cam Blackwood, my producer said,

this is one of the best songs. better read. Oh my word. So he loved it and that was really, and that was cool. And we just, we all needed. And bizarrely enough, while we were recording it, Joe Biden won the election, which was like this kind of like, it was this meant to be moment. And there's even a video of me in the studio and Abby Road telling all the band while they're recording this song, by the way, Joe Biden is the new president of the United States of America. So it was a real magic moment. And I hope when people hear it, it has that uplifting, you know, sense of hope. Well, it's beautiful. Jack, as always, it's always such a pleasure.

Love to the family. Thank you. Thank you. Grazie me, dearie. Prego. Any time. Ciao, chao. Ciao.

Thank you for listening. Coming up next week, the real doctor, he is a real doctor, Dr. Amir Khan. That Gabby Roslyn podcast is proudly produced by cameo productions and music by Beth McCari. Could you please tap the follow or subscribe button? And thank you so much for your amazing reviews. We honestly read it. every single one of them, and they mean the world to us. Thank you so much for listening.