That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - James McArdle

Episode Date: April 29, 2025

Gaby welcomes actor James Mcardle to the podcast for a chat about all things joy! They chat about his acting career, singing and what makes him smile. Remember you can watch all our episodes - and our bonus Show n Tell chat - via our YouTube channel. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

James McArdle, it's really lovely sitting opposite you, but I really, really am frightened of you. Why? Because of playing nice. He was such a batting. Oh, I know. That's what my grandmother used to say, oh, you're a badgian.

Really? Yeah, yeah. So, okay. Just a shout at Coronation Street. You're a badgian. Really? Not about you? No, like whoever was bad that day on Coronation Street.

Oh, I see. A retro Tillman vibes, you know. Oh, full. Yeah, yeah. So then, is your mother still alive? No, she's not. I'm sorry. And that was, the film, Four Mothers was actually,

but she just passed away when I read that. That's actually one of the main things that I was, like, drawn to. But I, so she didn't see her playing nice, but I know she would be screaming, you know, a badging. Oh, my word. Okay, there's obviously two of the things we want to talk about. Can we, can we, let's stick to your grandmother? Sorry, I didn't know we're going to go there,

but you just said you read that script, just as she'd just when she died she'd passed away maybe in the the well actually that's not true she hadn't passed away when I read it she was

her family were caring for her when I read it and there's a big caring element in the film and then just as we're waiting to see if the film was going to go if it had the money in place and all that that's when she passed away I was actually and it was so

strange this isn't meant to be joyful a bit you'll get me going straight It was so strange. I was filming Mervis Town in Philadelphia. And it was all during COVID and all that. So it was really, we'd film some of Mervis Town. Incredible series.

And then COVID hit. And it was a real like, are you staying here? Are you going back? I was like, I'm going back. I'm not staying here. And then it was that time, remember, when things started or some people could go back. So, you know, I was allowed with very,

select people to go back to work and, you know, the distance and all that, and I was on a very, very lonely jumbo jet back to Philadelphia. You flew in COVID? Yeah, yeah, and it was during, yeah, because remember people could go back, because it was like that kind of late on in the year and people were starting to go back

to work and everything. But did you still have to social distance on a plane? I mean, there was hardly anyone on the plane. And I remember, and then we had to social distance when we were there, and, you know, not, you had to stay in your master's day in the apartment and all So when you were filming Mayor of East Town, were you allowed to be close to Kate and things and the other cast? I'm trying to remember now.

Like, what it was, I did two jobs entirely in film at the height of COVID and one job in theatre at the height of COVID in film. Sorry, whoa, whoa, what, okay, there's so much to unpack it. No, maybe not at the height, but like, you know, there was a time where you'd be going to set, this feels ages ago, and you'd be having to go through, get all this stuff up your nose. And then... Test. Yeah, so then you had to distance from... I think you had to distance from most people

but if you were in the scene you know it became a bit ridiculous like masks on masks off and you just think okay if you've given me it you've given me it you know that was a weird weird weird time yeah can I also what that's got to do with your grandma I know sorry tangent

I'm like Billy Conley the bigian and the badgian he always comes back to what he's talking about the um so she actually passed away and I and I flew out like the next day and um

actually she had to see my goodbyes and then by the time I'd landed she'd passed away I had no idea I was going to talk about this and I just loved her so you know we were so close and then it was the strangest so the funeral was weird anyway

because it was all distanced you know so and the so there was no point to me I couldn't go back it was like one of the other and I'd said my goodbye I watched I watched it

so this is the thing so I'm going all over the place here but the once I knew she passed away and the funeral was going to be coming up the morning of the funeral I had to get up at like, you know, silly o'clock in the morning and I was honestly, I think about 21 floors up

in a skyscraper in Philadelphia and it was the morning of the funeral and the whole of the apartments it was a glass apartment was up so high and you'd wake up and you'd see all of Philadelphia and this morning the whole building was shrouded and cloud you couldn't see out of it

I couldn't see it was like a smoke machine it was somebody pulled like a white veil around the whole apartment it was insane and then I had to sit rather sadly in this apartment and watch my grand's funeral but I was so glad because of the way I think it

I thought no no that's right I was glad for my mum because it was so bleak seeing it from this kind of static camera angle and then like they're not being allowed to be need each other you know like you know, all my family separated it was awful. But what I didn't see until after and all my family

had seen before, all the people from our family and friends that all lined up outside and a cousin came and played the bagpipes and it was just, it was, I thought I was so glad for my family that they'd seen that before going in so it wasn't quite as bleak and then obviously I got to see it

before. I'm so sorry. I did not know where we're going here. Please don't know. It's kind of links into four mothers, I guess, you know? Yeah, no, completely and you say that Because that's, you know, there's part of, it's about caring and it's about love and it's about so many things. It's so, oh, it's a beautiful film. But to have that in the back of your head,

it's also, you know, there are some funny moments and it's just full of all of it. But to have that in the back of your head and to have gone through all of that, to then film that film, that's extraordinary timing. Yeah, well, yeah, it's weird when stuff like that happens. And it does happen. And obviously it's just you can use that.

and Colin and Darren Thornton had similar experiences with their mother and so it just felt right and I think the big thing I've been so overwhelmed by the response to it and it's, I'm... Because it's a small independent film and it's still in cinemas

which I'm so thrilled about that people are... But it's one of those ones that people go, have you seen? Have you seen? Yes, have you seen? It's gathering a word of mouth. I interviewed him about it. Oh, well, I've seen it. But it's really, it's a word of mouth.

Yeah, a word of mouth and it feels to be building a momentum. And what I find extraordinary about it is when I've seen it with people is the amount people want to talk about their experiences. It's kind of when you know something's landing. I've had that with a couple of jobs where you feel people want to share their experience. And that says to me something's, you know, resonating. And it's all different types of people that come up. And as you say, the thing that people, it's the pathos of it, but it's funny.

I mean, there's times, you know, when you're caring for people and it's so absurd. that, you know, you shouldn't be laughing at this? But it's not... The weird thing is, I think I said to you before when I chatted to you on the Sunday show, was that I laughed, but I didn't feel guilty for laughing. And you know those films that try and rip your heart out and then turn you around and make you laugh,

and then you think, oh, I'd feel bad for laughing, but I am laughing. This didn't. It was so real. Beautifully written. It's... Oh, so well written. It's one of the best script.

I've read. I've been so lucky I've had three scripts in my life that I just devoured and like, you know, you have this kind of steel to be like, I must. Okay, three. Obviously, you're not insulting all the other shows jobs because you love them all. Love them all. But what are the three then? The three are four mothers. Angels in America. That's I wanted to talk to you about that. Which is different because it was a pre-existing show and I had read it in the past but when I knew it was coming up, I'd read it again, blah, blah, blah. And the third one was a play called James I first,

which was part of the James plays written by Rona Monroe. And it was about the first James Stuart King of Scotland that we did at the National in 2014. And it just blew me away. And I think three scripts that blow you away like that in 10, 12 years is a lot. That, it's incredible.

Yeah, yeah. You didn't mention playing nice. Well, there was the whole, Play Nice was a number. no-brainer and it was the whole obviously like the thriller aspect that that grace had written and and then Kate Hewitt and then that cast that knowing it was going to be the four of us not only do I admire them so much as actors and I was dying to go and get trapped in Cornwall with them but I love them as people. They're really loving people. Yeah so I just was like it's a no-brainer and you get to go to

Cornwall. I know yeah okay it's a triple whammy yes but he he was um oh do you know it's so because you mentioned mayor of Easton as well but let's say you know it's so because you mentioned mayor of Easton as well but Let's go to playing nice. It was one of those dramas that captures everybody, and that's another one of those things that I have to say that all the things that I've ever seen you in, I do sound slightly like your stalker, because I think I've seen them all,

was that everyone, there's that rumble about it. And I think, I said to you before, it's everyone, have you seen, have you seen? And it is like that about four mothers. It was like that about playing nice. And I remember popping up something on my socials about playing nice and the comments underneath or just because you're not on, you don't use social media.

The comments were insane. Don't worry, as I said to you, I've had my cousins forward me some of the more colorful ones. It was insane. Yeah. But it was so good and you were so nasty and for an actor to be able to play at the same time to have four mothers

and playing nice out. That must be a dream. because two such different characters. Yeah. I mean, that's the great pleasure of it. It's why I love doing it. That is what brings me joy. What we were talking about before

is getting to express different parts, you know, or explore different parts or how you can best communicate them. That's the joy of it for me. And I said this on your radio show. I honestly did not see that coming for me in my career. I really just thought it was going to be neurotic Glaswegians and play very close to myself.

And I was happy with that. That was the plan. But, you know, you shouldn't make plans. You should just be ready to adapt and go with it. And so I'm so truly surprised. Surprised that people see it in me, this like constantly being asked to transform physically, vocally or whatever, or even just the character.

So drastically, I'm surprised that people want to do it. And I'm surprised that I'm able to do it. So I'm like to meet the, I don't think I didn't be able to do it. been able to do it 10 years ago. I think it's been some great teachers along the way, some great mentors along the way that have helped me gain the confidence and also the craft.

You know, I don't think I could have done it at the start. And that's why I think that's when you know you should do something. I remember when I was, I mean, most jobs, you know you should do a job and it scares the hell out of you, you know? and that tension of will I be able to do this, you know, and you say yes and then you're just racked with fear. I am anyway, I can only speak for myself. But I think that a lot of actors feel the same

and they have that self-doubt. But there must be something in you that says, yes, I can do this. Even though you have self-doubt and fear and worry and shyness and, you know, I talk on this podcast so much because I'm very openly, very, very shy person. and yet we're all performers so people don't, they think

hold on a minute, you want to be an actor but you don't think you can do it oh you're a shy person you can't, you know, so all of those things but that's a contradiction isn't it? Yeah, but it's not really. I know because I'm uncomfortable here not with you but this is the more

uncomfortable side of the job for me yeah, yeah, this is you not acting I'm not uncomfortable I'm relaxed whereas I when as soon as someone you know I've got a publicist to say you need to do that interview or you know whatever. But that's the bits I...

That's when I get shy. Yeah, yeah. Got a total and utter sense. Because I get the feeling from you, so I wanted to chat to you. Apart from the fact, you're a complete joy to chat to. But the fame thing is...

Pach! Well, no, what's appealing about it. I genuinely... Well, maybe money and freedom. Perks, maybe that's... For you, will you need for somebody? I'm trying to think what's... appealing about fame nowadays and I saw

I'm saying maybe that but I you know I love to act I think when I was younger I was like you know it was all part and parcel with it you know when you were you dreamed when you're I'm talking like when you're a wee

you know you're going to be an actor and famous it was all part of the one thing and I would equate like Merrill Street with you know or Harrison Ford with like Saturday telly like it was the same you know what I mean it was the same kind of thing I think when you're so young

and then as you go older and you learn a craft or to be an entertainer or to, you know, whatever it is and then as I go older I just go you know, every person of you ask anyone in any job what the downside of their job is. There's always going to be

downsides of jobs or you know and I think that is the downside of being an actor and I'm always wrestling with truly I'm not just saying this to be dramatic as I've gotten older I'm like I even really want to do this because I know the price to be successful or to have commercial value or whatever is having profile.

And it's your private life. Yeah, yeah. And to be profiling for people to, it's not even, I mean, of course it's a private life and that, but I just find it awkward to, you know, I am when I'm with my friends, my friends and my family would be like, what are you talking about? You're the most opinionated person in the world. But I find it embarrassing when you're asked as an actor to speak or give an opinion because I kind of think it's not my place.

Do you know, I'm here to entertain? I'm here to... That's your job. Yeah, and you want to talk privately about this, the next thing, I'll chew your ear off. But I always feel like I'm not positioned to say that. You know, I'd rather just, you know, turn up and say it's out. It's very interesting with every Scottish actor,

maybe that's a bit of a sweeping statement, but with most Scottish actors, It's all, you know, with most famous, you are, well-known, famous, whatever the word is that you don't like, but you are, that they want to know about your private life, they want to know who you're dating, and they want to know how you feel about Scotland. And when I was doing my deep dive into what I wanted to talk to you about,

it was just ridiculous. It's those of the, I think, oh, yes, let's just make you into a cliche, Scottish actor. How do you feel about this? And it's the same, you know, with, you know, where, wherever the actor is from. And I just think, no, there's more to you than that. And I love that you very kindly shared the story about your grandmother. Yeah.

Because that's real. That's the real... Yeah, you go, well, you know, that's... You agree to do something, so then you do have to speak, you know. And I think with the Scottish thing, a lot of people are focused on my accent, and I know I have a strong accent, but that's another reason why I'm surprised that I don't often act in my own accent, you know?

I don't, though. I love that people, you and Martin, who I love Martin, so much, and he's been on this a few times. I think he's been on this podcast more than anybody else. He loves a chat. Oh, he does love a chat. But I love it when people, when you're with him and people, oh, you're Scottish! And they do that to you as well. Yeah, yeah. But it's a huge compliment.

I know it is, and it makes me go, I've done my job, especially if you're not, my big worry was the Irish accent, because, you know, they're quite rightly, have seen it. are very protective because they've seen it butchard so often. So it was a real priority of mine. And I knew I didn't have any big physical transformations or anything with Edward and Four Mothers where I play Irish. So I could just focus on the... Do you sing?

Tone death. So you can't be... If you can do accents as well as you can do, you must be able to sing. God's course. I love to sing, can't sing. I don't believe anybody can't sing. If you could hear me in the shower,

you'd be like, jeez. In the nicest possible, I'm not going to join you in the shower. I went you were outside. You know, I didn't. You wouldn't have to get close because I built. Do you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I see, I bet you do sing.

Loud and flat. What song do you sing in the shower? It's pretty eclectic. It just depends. Go on, one. What was the latest? Oh, God, I don't know what one am I singing. What was I singing this morning?

I'm pleased you showered this morning. Yeah, I did. That's your way of sharing that you shower. Yeah, yeah. what was that absolutely belt and in the show of this one? The neighbours knock on the door. Yeah, no, no.

Right, exactly. I can't remember, but it's a lot. Okay, can we talk about Mayor of East Town? Yeah. I mean, you've already talked about that and that time and being away in COVID and everything, but that was another one of those shows that I remember interviewing Kate for this podcast

about Mayor of East Town. and that was incredible. Yeah, it was such a weird experience because everyone knew it was an amazing script but it was because of COVID, it was so broken up, you know, and there was loads of little things that happened that, you know, sometimes jobs are a breeze, sometimes they're really tough for different reasons,

maybe it's difficult people or whatever, whatever. And that was not the case in Merev East Town, but it was, everyone just knew, like, we have to keep going and get through it. There were so many kind of external obstacles doing this way and the thing that kept together was the script and I've got to say Kate, you know, I've worked with Kate

three times now and she is you know when I was saying about mentors about she is one of them she's a force, isn't she? Yeah and a great leader like really I was like she leads by example you know and that's that's

I think that's incredible as an actor and so friendly on set so accommodating but so focused and, you know, talk about that she's one of the ones that gives me the confidence to go, I'm going to take that transformative part because, you know, she's big, she's, I think she's like, you know, will be the next Meryl Streep or something like in terms of, you know, when she gets older, like, because her ability to transform so whole is, is inspirational to me. I find it incredible.

As you say, she's very, very focused. Yeah. So who are your other mentors? Can you name them or is it with, you know, I don't. They don't have to be well-known people. But who are other people? Well, like, personally, it was definitely my grand. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

What was her name? Betty. Betty. Betty. Oh. And she was 100%. Did you call her grand? Yeah, yeah, grand.

And Jonathan Kent, the theatre director, he's been a huge mentor for me and has always pushed me to do stuff that is outside my comfort zone. And that's, that's, I have. I feel incredibly lucky for that because he, you know, often with directors, they're just focused on their show, quite rightly, and you know, you're a piece in their show.

And I feel so lucky that he has constantly came back to me and said, what can we do to push you as an actor? And that's how, that's, so I'm so grateful for that. I remember we just, I did a play with him at the National Plotone of. David Hare had done the version and it went down really well. and he and so he wanted to do something with the three of us again

and he was like we're going to find something and I was like what about this and I kept saying what about Hamlet what about what about obviously David wouldn't do a version of Hamlet

but I was finding like kind of well-known plays or parts that I wanted to do and he kept going darling pay a gint I was like and I was like why he was like it's undoable

it's undoable And I was like, ah. So that was the reason I ended up doing that at the national because he sort of insisted on, and then he kept saying this would be good for you to figure out how to hold an evening. And Pierre Ginnett is like four hours long. It's a long show.

Yeah, I go from 18 to like 45 to 80 and they're on three separate parts. And, you know, it wasn't loved very much in England, but it was when we went to the International Festival in Scotland. It was so weird that change in the audience. And it did, taught me something about stamina at least. And I'm so grateful to him for that because he pushed me. How lovely.

And it's tough with me, you know, like, so we'll... So, Betty, Jonathan and Kate. Yeah, yeah. That's not a bad. Were you always like this as a child? A nightmare? Did you... No, not at all.

You are not a nightmare. Stop putting yourself down. But did you know what you wanted to do, but slightly self-doubt? I think the self-doubt came later. You know, it was pretty adamant and, you know, the arrogance of youth or the blind belief of youth. You know, I was really like, this is absolutely what I'm doing and there'll just be nothing that stops me. And I'm talking about from William and I used to, there's a Scottish show way back in the day called The Singing Kettle. and this band would come on with a kettle

with a big face on it and they would say spout, handle, lid of metal, what's inside the singing kettle? And they'd open it up and there'd be a nursery rhyme, clue or whatever, and then people would sing. And I used to know all the songs, and apparently I don't quite remember this, but I just was, we were in a caravan once and I just

kept singing all the singing kettle songs and my cousin put a dish towel over me because that's what they used to do to their budget, and they thought if they put the dish towel over me, I would stop saying. Do you remember the songs now? No, no, I can't remember. I think there were like classic nursery rhymes and the kettle would have a clue

and then you would try and figure it out. So, okay, so you're watching that, what was the bit that you wanted to do? The singing, the kettle or the presenting or the acting? Well, all of it was so weird because they used to do live shows. Did you see them live? Yeah, I saw them live, right?

And then at some point at the show they would bring people up in the audience. This had been like a couple of shows I'd seen and they'd had taken kids up in the audience. and I think my family just expected because I was, you know, they couldn't shut me up basically, they were like, we should volunteer

them to go up and they did they kind of... You went up? And I went up and I hated it. I was... I remember they took you up and they took you kind of backstage and I was wee, wee, wee, I mean, I was like, I think I was a nursery or something. And I just remember like being mortified,

freezing and then going out onto the day. the stage and I just absolutely hated it and I remember that contradiction we're talking about all my family had been like you love doing that for us or you love singing and it was so weird and all the other kids were doing that and I was Beamer Beamer Central and just like frozen I remember so clearly totally understand because the same thing happened to me and all I wanted to be was a TV presenter and Ronnie Corbett I had a panto he would put the light on and told me to come up I went, no! My parents said, but you want to be a TV presenter?

Don't make me go on stage now! So I know exactly what you're talking about. Did you go out? No, I was pretty shy. Although... Ronnie Corbett and Pantel, that must have been brilliant. He was buttons. Oh, wow.

But I did get some chocolate buttons thrown at me. Yeah, that was right. Chocolate buttons to the terrified we girl in Roe Age. Yeah. But you know what, though, it is. It's that weird thing. As I said, that we know what we want to do. and yet if somebody puts you in that situation,

it's, oh, do I help do it. I'm sorry that you felt that about this. I hope it's been... No, no, no. Well, I just, I said to it, I adore you, and so I was... Oh, no, no, she was... And it's good for me. It's good to, you know, you need to do it.

It's... And can I just ask you why you're not on social media? Because I'm quite fascinated by this. I mean, obviously, we've seen recently... Obviously, a show you wanted, but adolescence, which has caused a... massive conversation, which I think is great with young people and telephones and social media. Have you made a conscious decision not to be across any social media?

Honestly, I mean, I remember when I went to drama school, I think around the bit then is when Facebook was starting and all that. I just never, it just never appealed to me. Honestly, way back then, like, everyone in my year was on it. But I even remember before that when it was all MSN and Bebo. Do you remember Bebo? Yeah. I never had to be able to. any of that and it wasn't a conscious thing, I just never I couldn't be bothered with it or something

I just couldn't be bothered with it and now as it's you know taking over the entire our entire lives I would I would you know I often now get told you'll have to get on it or you'll need to start

blah blah blah and I'm like okay okay but can someone else run it or whatever which still hasn't happened you're so showbiz somebody else do it for me that's what a lot of people do Yeah, I know. And so I was like, well, I don't know, I've never had a desire to. So I understand people, I think it suits a lot of people's personalities or, you know,

I can see the appeal and, you know, I get sent stuff that makes me laugh or whatever from friends and WhatsApp groups or whatever. But I just, I think I would find it. I always say, like my, I get the affirmation that I think people want from social media. I get it in my job. Like I'm so lucky that, like, you know, at the end of my plays, if people have liked it, they clap, you know, or people respond in that way.

So I have a connection, or as I said about four mothers when I've met people, and I just don't, so I don't know if it's that thing, or that people want to connect. Maybe that's what it was in the early days, and now it's all money or whatever you could maybe make from it. I don't know. But I tell you what I do think is,

I find that the culture that we're in, and we were talking about joy, I find it, I think it's dangerous. I think that it breeds. Social media. Yeah, I think, you know, it has to, it's still the Wild West and it has to be contained

and I just wonder what it's doing to us culturally. I feel that like this algorithm that spouts hatred at you that makes you riled. I have to say, I mean, I'm on Instagram and I just post joy. I post, that's just all, have a laugh and, you know,

but that's good if people they're on you, but I think that there is... But there's a lot of very, very political, right wing, anti, anti, anti, angry, angry. And there's a lot of judgment now because of social media. But what's free, the reason I ask you is because

when I said you're coming on my Sunday show, a lot of messages were, we can't find him. He'll be here on Sunday. What do you mean? You've got here. But what they mean is they want to find out more about you.

And I don't post about my private life. It's nobody's business. Everyone knows I've got two kids and a husband. Thank you very much. But a lot of people post a lot of that. And I think people want to know because you're famous. They think, oh, I want to see this. I want to see his this.

I want to see that. But I like that you've made that decision not to. So anyway, that's all. I'm applauding you about it. I always think that like, you know, I don't know if just never. It's never appealed to me. And I find the heated tone of it now is, you know,

and it feels like it's so divided. I wonder how we get out of it. Like the left sometimes can be exhausted and pedantic and punitive to people. And I think that breeds resentment in voters. And the right seems to peddle fear and lies and hatred, which I think, you know, brings out hatred on voters. And there's that kind of toxic. Well, that's why we need.

And I really mean this. That's why we need. escapeism. That's why we need actors, not AI actors, real actors, who and writers and directors and performers because we all need you. And I think that in, I know it sounds dramatic, but in COVID, that's when we were all reminded how important television, obviously, I mean, hopefully people are going back to the cinema and they are, obviously to see your film. But that we need entertaining. We need taking away from our everyday life. But listen, I don't mean to make this worthy

because I absolutely, I am big on entertainment. Like, I think, you know, good light entertainment, especially. Like, that was remember those like hey days and the Saturdays, like 90s, Saturdays, Saturdays and night TV shows. They're kind of... The best. I know they were. They were so good.

And anyway, what I was going to say there about the algorithm and what you're saying there about why we need the escapism. Because my experience of real people in real life is that we actually are full of the... empathy and we actually crave empathy, you know, and want to connect with each other. And that's why I love, and four mothers,

I know Edwards, this gay novel is looking after his elderly mother, and one of the most effusive audience members I had was this man, straight guy married, who cared for his brother. And, you know, so, it's so

funny how we box people. And when you talk about, like, so for example, and I get briefed about, like, how to go, how to talk about four mothers. Don't talk about it's not a carer film. It's not a carer film. How are we going to attract to this audience? Or like a gay audience? How are we going to attract

to an old lady audience? I mean that is and how are those two things going to come together? I mean like... It's all algorithms, is it? And the neurosis around that and I really just think I actually believe people empathise. What a wonderful opportunity to people... It's the

outside force that wants to box us and label us. I actually think when a real person meets a real person, we just connect if they're a good person, you get good vibes, you have empathy for that person, and I really, that brings me joy.

I love that. What a perfect place to stop. You are wonderful. I think you are such a phenomenal, phenomenal actor, and I love the way that you look at life. So, Joe, thank you so much. Thanks so much for having me.