That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Jason Watkins

Episode Date: April 4, 2021

In this episode Gaby chats to one of the hardest working actors in the business - Jason Watkins. He talks about what it was like to portray Harold Wilson in Netflix’s smash hit ‘The Crown’ and more recently his role as Brian Masters in ITV’s chilling drama ‘Des’ starring alongside David Tennant. They chat about his part in ‘McDonald & Dodds’ and of course his character Mr Shakespeare in the much-loved Nativity films. Plus, what it was like to be in a James Bond film, his first time in front of a camera when he was in EastEnders in 1987 and the importance of supporting the arts. For more information on the sponsor of this episode Symprove visit www.symprove.com or follow-on Instagram on @symproveyourlife. To claim 15% off the 12-week programme use discount code GABY15 at checkout. For new customers only in the UK. Symprove customer care team are available 8-8 to answer any questions or queries, call 01252 413600. Produced by Cameo Productions, music by Beth Macari.  Join the conversation on Instagram and Twitter @gabyroslin #thatgabyroslinpodcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Gabby Roslin here, thank you so much for listening to this podcast. In this episode, I chat to one of the hardest working actors in the business. It's Jason Watkins. You'll know him most recently for playing Brian Masters in Des and Harold Wilson in The Crown. Also, he starred in McDonald's and Dodd, W1A, the Nativity Films, and so much more. We chat about all of that, plus being in a James Bond film, his first time in front of a camera when he was in EastEnders in 1987 and the importance of the arts right now. We start this chat with Jason standing on his hands, which for those of you who don't know about it,

well, it's because he is famous for doing this. Whenever he's on any chat show or whenever he does anything, he's famous for standing on his hands. He does it in the films. He does it in the TV shows and he does it on this podcast. I am so grateful that this episode is sponsored by one of my favorite companies, SimProve. Now, it's a food supplement containing live and active bacteria, which has done absolute wonders for both mine and my family's health. More information can be found at Simprove.com with the discount code G-A-B-Y-15 for 15% off the 12-week program.

I'll tell you more about it later. You could do this on your hands and we wouldn't know. No, yes. Can you do it now? Oh, go on, please. Please stand on your hands now. I've already done a bit of cycling this morning, so I'm just, I'm going to do it. All right, I'm doing it.

I'm just probably going to drag my computer off the table. I've got my flip-flops on one on my sand or scotch. It's a vision of domestic bliss. There we go. There we go. Yeah, I'm on my hands now. Yay. So do you want maybe a couple of questions?

Okay. Yeah, how's your lovely wife, Clarke? Oh, Carla, yes, she's great actually. Yeah, she's doing very well. Yeah, she's great. She's got a new business, she's got a new fashion brand called Oliners. And that's doing well on.

Oh, is that the same one as the one she had last time I saw you? It is. No, this is the one. It's absolutely flourishing. I'm coming down now. I could... I'm down. I mean, I could do a lot for longer, obviously,

but then my head would fall off or something. I'm not at all out of breath, as you can tell. I'm like an Olympic athlete. How far did you cycle today then already? I'm down in Bristol, shooting another series of McDonald and Dots right evening. Oh, that's brilliant. Yes, I'm in Bristol. And so I brought my, for those people who know these things,

I brought my turbo trainer, which is a, I put my bike on the, on the trainer, and I cycle off in this virtual world, Gabby. And then, so I did 50 kilometres and a race this morning. So I did a race. against lots of other people from all over the world, doing the similar thing to me. It didn't do very well, actually. But then I carried on and did 50K.

That's amazing. Yeah. That's 30 miles. Yeah, I like it because it sort of sets me. That's what I've been doing in lockdown. I've been getting sort of fit. And I think combination, I think I put a bit of weight on when I paid Harold Wilson and I kind of wanted to find a way of shedding that and not carry too much weight.

So yeah, so I've kind of typically completely gone. for it and I'm now, as I said, I am now an Olympic athlete. I'm pleased to hear it. Do you know what, in my life I never thought that I would hear that whole sentence for coming out in one person's mouth. Because of lockdown and being Harold Wilson, I put on weight so I've now cycled 50 kilometres and I'm an Olympic athlete. She made my day.

Yes, you can see the way my brain works. Needs to be corralled. Well, where do we go? do we start with Bristol? Can we start with Wilson, with Harold Wilson? So you actually did, you thought I was going to come in as a really heavy thing? No, did you actually have to put on the weight yourself then? I didn't have to put, I mean, I didn't have to put on weight. I mean, it wasn't, nobody said, oh, you know, you need to put on weight, but I just felt when I did my research on him, and I met lots of people who knew him,

because there's lots of work you could do impersonating on YouTube and there's so much wonderful footage. and you could do a lot of work in terms of impersonation, but it's really good to meet someone who knew him. And one of the things that Lord Montague told me, Bernard Montague, who was one of his policy advisors later on in his time at number 10, said that he was sort of round and soft. And I kind of thought, that's interesting,

a sort of sharp mind, a sort of softer sort of exterior. And so that's where, that came from until we had a I got a bit of a fat suit but it was just sort of around my just around my face and just to puff it out slightly so that was yeah and i think all those things really help audiences because they just the more you can convince them that you are that person as quickly as possible the more they can really think about what you're saying and what's happening in the scenes and all that which is a really important bit so yeah it did but it was extraordinary oh harrodors and i have to say I really, it wasn't an impersonation.

You embodied him. I mean, you do so many real people. It's quite extraordinary. You know, obviously Christopher Jeffries and then Brian Masters recently in Des. But Harold Wilson is somebody, I suppose, because of my age as well. I remember, well, you and I were very little. But I then remember sort of impersonators always doing him. And he was that, that's extraordinary voice.

But you didn't do an impersonation. you absolutely embodied him. And I think that's what the Crown seems to do, that you forget all the actors. And you and all of them, you all embody the real people. Well, yeah, I mean, it's just sort of surrounded by amazing actors, you know, from Olivia Colvin. And, you know, it's just privileged to do all those scenes with her.

And, you know, and everyone, you know, there was this, Tobias Men's is and, you know, I mean, they're very accurate portrayals of those people. I hesitate, use the word impersonation, but you know, the writing's so brilliant that you just don't want to sort of, you know,

a stuck sort of thing, you know, you want to have something that's very real, so that draws audiences in. And Peter Morgan's writing is the thing. I think that you're all slave to that. So any impersonation, any sort of pyrotechnics of acting has to be, has to really be slave to the writing,

because that's the thing that draws audiences in, that's the sort of storytelling, and that's the depth that you get in the crown, because, you know, there's lots of talk about it, how accurate it is, and it is, as far as mine as saying, is that it's very accurate, and there is a little bit of dramatic license along the way, and it's a sort of, but they're the things that audiences want to know about, this depth, not just, you know, a Mad and Two Swords kind of presentation of that world. So yeah, yeah, I mean, it was just a fantastic cast and as it goes on, that that will, that will continue. What is it like to be, I mean, obviously, there's so many things to talk about and I actually going to be really sort of choosy of my favourites, if you don't mind, although all of

them, of course are my favourites, but, but being a part of the Crown, which is a worldwide phenomenon, is, do you feel the weight of that when you, when you're heading in, when they made that call to you, I mean, I'm sure you didn't have to audition. So they gave you a call and they said, hello Jason, we'd like you to be Harold Wilson. You didn't have to think twice, surely. Well, I mean, this is the thing. I did have to audition. Did you? Oh, gosh, yeah. I mean, I think there was, and I can't mention any names, that there were seven of us. Seven Harold Wilson's in the room at the same time. Yeah, so I did a massive amount of homework even before the audition. So I kind of impersonated him, you know, I got him under my belt

well before we started shooting him and then I got down to two it was a bit like you know it was almost like sort of the auditions one does when one's a sort of teenage you know to get in school but they want to get it right they want to feel comfortable and they can be as thorough as they wish

and you know you want to show them your best so yeah it was I think I was doing the play Frozen you were incredible in that well that was a sort of production week so I went in on a Sunday morning in a little studio in Soho and the other actor, I think he'd gone in before me,

although I didn't know that, and read with Olivia. And then I think it was probably about a week of nail biting, and then I was offered the part. So, you know, it was quite a strenuous, and I think a lot of other actors I know go through that process, because I think they want to be absolutely sure.

So, yeah, and yeah, it was, I was just totally very, very delighted in jumping up and down in my dresser. room at the theatre. You still have that extreme excitement when you hear that you've got a job. Oh God, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because when you're inside it and you're making stuff, you know, you must find this, Gabby, that working is sort of your experience of creating something, it's often very different from people watching it. So, you know, the creating of it, sitting in a room for a few days doing a scene with Olivia, has a incredible reward and satisfaction in terms of work. You know, has it's,

as it's nerve-racking occasionally and yes you mentioned earlier on the scale of it you know you can't believe that the size of the lights i mean that sounds like a sort of amateur but you know the lights enormous and the abilities to and the sets etc so brilliant but it really it's it's the opportunity you're excited because you've got the opportunity to do incredible work you know and everything else follows from that you know all the sort of you know the sort of premieres and all the black tie jobs and and everything and the reaction is, you know, is nice, but it's really secondary to sitting in a room. And I will talk a little bit about Des, maybe later on,

but, you know, doing scenes, those incredible scenes with David, are, you know, and likewise with Olivia, are, you know, they're the things you remember. How wonderful, though, that you still feel like that about each of the jobs. Has there ever been a job that you've got and you've thought, oh, God, oh, no. So, what, do you want me to listen to? No, oh, really? I imagine you going in to everything with that glorious smile.

Well, they're all done for different, they're all different ways, aren't they? Sometimes you, it's weird, actually, because sometimes I think, oh, I'm going to do this. You know, this is a good money earner. This will be good. And I'll, you know, I'll learn some money on this one. And then I'll do my arty bit on something else and try and do something for absolutely no money to all and be a bit edging. But actually, it's weird how your expectation of jobs changes sometimes. And even when you look in the diary, you think, well, I can do that.

And then I can do this one. And then, you know, you sort of see occasionally, you'll see maybe, if you're lucky, you know, three, four months in advance. And you think, I'm going to slip that in. But when you're in it, it's got an identity and one's expectation of it may be different to the actual doing of it. But there's very few things, particularly recently, that I haven't wanted to do recently. So you know, I never realised about you, and I'm somebody who's never missed an episode, that you did EastEnders. You did 11 episodes of EastEnders. Cool, blimey. Yes, I did.

I did. Yeah, I did. Yeah, Jerry Fairweather. Yeah, that was my first time in front of her camera. That was your... Oh, my word. So you've gone from that? I mean, surely you were excited about that because it was... Oh, yeah. It was, as you said, your first time. There you were. Now launching yourself into television.

Well, I've done lots of sort of small-scale touring. Six-month tours of one-night stands and stuff like that, I think, you know, in theatres and above pubs. And basically, you know, sort of theatre actor. And, you know, this is why at the moment things are so hard for live performers. And I really feel, you know, I don't do as much these days and haven't done for a while. But I started, yeah, above pubs and around the small scale, mid-scale venues all over the country. And I started picking up sort of things after that.

But, yeah, they, I'd got a Mike Lee film, actually. I did High Hopes. And that was coming up, yeah, in the sort of January or something. and then EastEnders came up and said they want you to split this part. So I was supposed to embody the whole of the yuppie tide of 1986, I think, 8 to 7. And I was this sort of yuppie called Jerry Fairweather, who like drunk Perrier and had a Porsche. And like he had a personal organiser and stuff like that. And he sort of a pal of Wilmot Browns.

And I think I can say actually that I was in one of the top ten most viewed. television programs in history. I mean, it was when Angie left the Dagmar, went back to the Vic. She knocked me out at the bar and lay me flat. I'd had enough and went back to the Queen Vic. And yeah, it was, I think millions of people who watched it. It was 25 million or something, wasn't it?

And that's something I can tell Rob Bryden, actually. When Des, the figures for Des, have been great. I mean, 10.9 million viewers, it's the biggest launch since for 14 years. But of course, he then reminds me of Gavin and Stacey, which I think got an enormous of lots of viewers. No, you can remind him of EastEnders. What a wonderfully talented person he is.

So he can sing and dance and act and, you know, you can host things. But what an unpleasant man. I'm glad I've just told you that particular sort of joke. Because he said to me, he said, your appalling boldness has given you a certain gravitas. I thought what he says. Now, as promised, I'd like to tell you more about our fantastic sponsor of this episode, Simprove.

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listeners of this podcast. You can get 15% off the 12-week program by entering this promo code when you're at the checkout. It's G-A-B-Y-15. That's Gabby-15 for new customers in the UK. They have a fantastically helpful customer care team, who I've called in the past, and they have been very helpful, and will put their phone number in this episode description. You mentioned Des now a couple of times, and congratulations on that. The performances of you and David and Danny. What an extraordinary piece of television, though. Goodness me. I'm not surprised, but I am surprised at the sheer scale of the reaction has been incredible.

And for me, I mean, I just thought, what a thing. fascinating part. What an amazing, this guy's really interesting and it just, just all those, pressed all those buttons about, you know, impersonating him and the complexity of his relationship with Nilsson and, you know, what was that all about and what were the things that were going on in his head at that time. It's an extraordinary thing. You have to, I suppose that you have to really, really be forensic about placing yourself in that room with that person. and try and strip away all the kind of stuff that we know about Dennis Nilsen or even Brian himself and think about yourself. What would I do? What would I be thinking if I went into a room with that person?

So, I mean, some sort of act was Hungarian actors. I said that when he acts, you know, it's like a tightrope and at one end is you and at the other end is your character. And you sort of walk, both at the same time, you both walk towards each other. So, you know, there's you and how you would feel, you know, and then there's how your characters would feel. And you've got to do both. Otherwise, as you said, alone, it's either an impersonation or if it's just you, you're not really in character.

So if you meet somewhere in the middle, that's a good thing. And I suppose it was such a joy. Lewis Arnold, this young director was just, he pulled everybody with him and production team, new pictures, ITV. I mean, there were just Luke Neal, it's brilliant writing, it's amazing story, and we all deliberately stayed away from the salaciousness and there's nothing too shocking. It's all, it's the words, the shockiness is what is said. Yeah, it's interesting because I think episode one, I was deeply disturbed, but fascinated.

And I was trying to work out what I thought that, Brian from a viewer that Brian felt about him and it was he was intoxicated by him and fascinated and what would I and I kept thinking what would I do if I was sitting there as an interviewer with Nielsen I mean it was extraordinary Brian had a fascination with with with him as a person he was a biographer so I think he had a huge kind of to try and comprehensive understand, comprehend his behaviour and his book, Killing the company. I actually, that's one thing I did in lockdown.

I recorded that so you can listen to me as Brian Masters reading his own book on Audible. So the detail of the book is, it's a great listen if you can stomach it. But it goes into the detail of it. And I think the most shocking part of it for me about Nilsson is really his narcissistic. and his disrespect for, or not about, it's not an active dislike.

He just doesn't have that part of his brain of real understanding and appreciation of the loss that he engendered on families and the pain that he caused his victims. He kind of, it's less about them and always about him. And as an actor, we can be quite self-centered because we have to survive the rigours of our job. You know, you've got to keep at a certain level of confidence sometimes. and, you know, so we are sometimes by nature quite self-centered. So, but Nilsson is just off the scale. And I think that was the thing, despite the horrors of what he did,

it's the whole, complete, wholesale disregard of lack of empathy, which is the most shocking aspect of that whole case, perhaps. And beautifully portrayed by David Tennant. I'm an extraordinary performance. Oh, yeah. I mean, Danny's, Dan is what an actor he is. I mean, just the effortless, right at the emotional sort of centre of it, always a brilliant actor. Yeah, he really is.

And a lovely guy as well. Before we go to the comedy stuff, which we have to talk about, because you know how much there's a certain Mr. Shakespeare we have to go to? Because otherwise, my daughter would never speak to me. And every time I interview you, we have to go there. But Christopher Jeffries as well, that was an extraordinary piece of television. Another one. And again, you embodied the person. It wasn't impersonation.

And I know you won the BAFTAs and I was rewatching your acceptance. and it was extraordinary drama. I mean, ITV do some amazing dramas. They do. They do. I mean, I don't, yeah, I mean, what is, I don't know what the rules are for that. I don't know how that happens.

They just have gotten a bit of a role. And I've been very lucky that I've been, you know, part of a couple of them. And, yeah, Christopher Jeff is, I mean, he's where I'm in Bristol now and doing Donald and Dodds. And he lives not far away from where I'm sitting now. and I'll see him at some point, if we, you know, COVID allowing, we'll sort of wavered each other across the downs.

But what a story that was and a terrible tragedy, of course. If there is a comparison, actually, the way that in DES we try to avoid any sensationalism, salaciousness, that some documentaries perhaps, particularly go towards a sensationalist horror aspect. We stayed away from that in the script, and the same thing happened with the Christopher, at the moment, the emotional centre of that was the memory of Joanna Yates. This is wonderful montage in the middle of it, when we go back into her flat as it was when she was last there. And that's beautiful, poetic, lyrical passage right at the heart of the piece. So, you know, all the sort of accolades and the awards and stuff, we very much remember her and what her family went through.

And so there is a centre to these pieces that do well, I think, that really connects with audiences. And the care with which the programmes are made, I feel, does come through the screen and hits audiences. And certainly with Christopher Jeffery's story, yeah, it was about Joe, but it was really about the way that we as a society look at eccentrics, how we view them and perhaps prejudge them. And, you know, it's a celebration. almost of eccentricity and also it's about press regulation sort of hand-drawing a court to someone even before they've been accused of anything and of course Christopher wasn't accused of anything.

You embody these people and these heartbreakings, I mean, Frozen, you mentioned on stage as I've spoken to you about before. It was amazing and powerful and a very tough watch. But then there is that other side of you that, and I'm going straight to nativity, and Mr. Shakespeare and confetti. I mean, you do funny, better than anybody. So I'm not surprised they got you to be Mr. Humphreys and are you being served.

But Mr. Shakespeare is just... I mean, Nativity is that we watch that and Elf every single Christmas. Yeah, you know, those films are so... They go every year, they garner a new audience. And I remember being on holiday sort of in Italy a few years ago. We were walking up into the sort of piazza, this village, and this family, who gets a sort of ran across the piazza, oh, my Mr. Shakespeare, oh my goodness. And they were very, very warm and lovely.

And they said, oh, we've just, they'd driven from Bolton, I think. They'd come from, driven down in a massive camper van, down the UK, across France, down to Italy, and they'd had the nativity films on a loop all the way down across the journey. and they'd literally just turn the CD player off in the car. I think they had a CD player. And then they got out the car and saw me across to, so they couldn't believe it. That's fantastic. You must have made their year.

Well, I think the films are so appreciated and warm. You know, they're all improvised. So I think that was the clever bit, amongst many bits, that Debbie, I sit the director and creator, that they are unashamedly warm, populist, funny, inclusive and compassionate and celebrated. I mean, there are all those things. Because they're sort of made up on the spot, we make up the dialogue when the camera was running, you know, we planned scenes, but really it was all made up, that that sort of freshness

and unexpectedness, particularly with the kids, so they're not sort of learning minds that they're trying to make real. They're just talking. So again, that's sort of really connected with audiences. And if you think that really, you know, clearly I'm a character actor, you know, and I like playing different people. So, you know, if you've got that going on and then you've accessed, I think it's fair to say, early on in my career, doing lots of different types of theatres. I talked about doing shows above pubs and then doing bits of the National Theatre, the RSC and then the World Court.

And you get to do lots of different types of plays. And I've just really brought that into my work. on television film. You know, you're playing, you're in different genres and the requirement is to be a funny character. So, well, you know, off you go. But you enjoy it, don't you though? Because I mean, that W1A, which is my other,

I just, very good, very strong. It's just marvellous. And I loved the special you did in lockdown. Yeah, the little Zoom thing. Oh, it was marvelous. I just wanted more. We all wanted more from that. Well, we keep, we, we sort of tweet each other occasionally.

I think, Hugh choose great, he'll initiate a tweet, something will happen on the BBC and he'll then tweet it in character to me. And then I tweet back in character, then Rufus and Sarah Paris join in. But I missed one because I have my head into the middle of filming. So there's quite a pressure on it to be quite, to make sure it's funny when it goes back. But, you know, that's a bit boring. But that's been a sort of enjoyable afterlife of the show. But, yeah, I mean, it was, again, that was a, that just did so well.

I think it was, I think it's funny because early on, they were worried that it would be too BBC media-centric and that the audience is. But it did exactly like that at the BBC. It is, I mean, you know, people, people in the BBC were convinced it was a documentary, you know. People would, I'd go to the BBC, said, I know exactly who your character's based on. And many, many people said that. And so there were obviously many different people within the BBC, just like Simon R. But yeah, that was a joy and I suppose the lovely cast and I suppose the requirement there was to, again, it's just not to get in the way of the writing, you know. John Morton is just this brilliant satirist, really. And in a way, you'd want to do less acting because it's all in the words.

It's embodying. But you do do it with such care and you do it so beautifully. I'm slightly concerned. I'm slightly concerned. though that I've read that there is somebody that you would like to embody, you'd like to have a go at Farage. Yeah, that's, that's... What is this about? What, Jason? I think I said that in an interview. And I said, oh, I wouldn't mind having a go at Farage. And he said, well, that's it.

You've given me the headline there. And I said, well, you know, I think, yeah, well, that's interesting. I'm just going to contradict everything that I've just said there, aren't I? Because I'm not a fan of Marge of Farage. But, you know, it'd be interesting to play him. Yeah. I mean, the Brexit story has got to be told again and again, I think. What was it like being in a James Bond film?

Yeah, well, that were quite a cast, actually. There was Hugh Bonneville and Pip Torrance, who then went on to be rather brilliant in the first season of the Crown. He was in it. Brendan Coyle was in My Little Scene, who was found fame in Downton Abbey. So that was years and years ago. We were all sort of acted. That was great. The buzz about that was great when he went to the cast and crew screening.

When you saw that, up came the Jane's Bond titles, you know. That must be exciting. But I'm really sorry. I'm embarrassed to say this, but I'm going to just say it. There's a story about you that what happened when you got into Rada. And I thought it was a joke. No, no, that is true. I mean.

Oh, my word. You killed your cat. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's a life funny. I did, I did, yeah, when I got my acceptance letter for Rada, listen, this is going to offend a lot of cat lovers and animal loves. So I'm so sorry that, yeah, when I got my acceptance letter to get into Rada, dear Jason Watkins, I'm very glad to offer you a place at the Royal Academy,

I jumped in the air and landed on our cat and killed it. And it was in that moment and it was pretty horrific. And, you know, I went to school and I said, what's wrong? I said, I've got into Rada and I killed the cat. Oh, I'm really sorry. Yeah, but this is it. You know, there's a whole, there's a whole, I could tell you the whole story. But this is life, isn't it?

I mean, you know, that absolute, probably one of the happiest moments of my life that are getting into Rada. I mean, it's, you know, there's no history of it in my family. There's not, you know, just like it's a big deal. And then the worst, you know, moment of my life juxtaposed so acutely is quite something, isn't it? I'm very sorry for your cat, and it was awful. Yes, little Jacob and I'm sorry. Let's talk about why you're in Bristol, as you said.

You're doing more McDonald's and Dodds. And you know how much I love that because I chatted to you. And I'm so pleased that there's more because everybody just loved it. They did. They went absolutely crazy for it. I think me and Tala just hit it off so well. And it's there in the writing. There's a kind of double act to it.

And so you've got sort of more contemporary themes of two very different people from different worlds solving crimes with, you know, these fantastic casts. And it's, you know, this time around we've got Rob Bryden is coming into play. There is a group of characters who are from the sort of 80s and they, are living together as a sort of, you know, big sort of family, as it were. And we've got Martin Ken, Patsy Kensick, Kathy Tyson and Rupert Greggs. So it's a very colourful show. It's got all sorts of different things in it.

It's very rich and colourful. Oh, congratulations on that. But it's lovely that you're back working because I know you were cut short doing around the world in 80 days, weren't you? You and David. Yes, no, well, remembered. Yeah, I mean, we'd done days together if we hadn't had enough. I think it's about the six or seventh time we worked together actually. And yeah, we were doing around the world in 80 days.

Yeah, I was filming in South Africa. I'd finished most of my work on it. And, yeah, the shutters came down. They said, you know, please leave the country in two days. So we did. But that is coming back and we'll be finished. We'll be finished. So that's a good thing.

Obviously, we are filming now and find a different. ways of observing all the COVID rules. And I suppose all I can say is once the camera is running, you feel very much like it always has done. But it's all the other things about keeping your distance, wearing your masks, visors, doing your own microphones, often doing your own makeup and all sorts of things. If you have your hair cut, the poor, you know, makeup person, it cuts your hair has to put the whole sort of suit on, you know, because of fibres.

So everyone's, I think everyone's, and I think this is one of the contributing factors to Des's success and overwhelming responses, that audiences are desperate for, you know, material and new stuff. And so we as, you know, TV and filmmakers want desperately to make that work. So we're doing all sorts of things to ensure that we're safe and that we can keep filming. And I think that's so important because as an audience member, I just wanted new stuff and I sort of devour all the new stuff. But what upsets me as somebody who's so passionate about the arts

is all the people who are not working in theatre behind the scenes, the front of the scenes, the actors, the technical people, the, it's just, it's so difficult. It's so, so tough. Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, the individuals who are, all the crew members, all those pushing poor guys in the fly towers

and the front of house and the, you know, they're not working and they have no support. So, and they seem to be the last person. Sometimes it's something that, you know, People in the arts, well, you know, they deserve it because it's, you know, it's a precarious profession. And the arts is a essential part. It brings us together as a society. It brings us closer. It makes us more tolerant. I mean, this is what we need particularly at the moment. And again, as I said earlier, you know, expresses different worlds that you can share as a group. And there's a common enterprise. And so for that not to be going on and not to be valued as it should be, I think is as criminal.

actually. I agree. Absolutely agree with you. So the moment you're doing McDonald's and Dodds, then you're going back to doing around the world in 80 days. Do you stop? I'm delighted you don't. I'm actually delighted because you know I'm such a huge fan, but I just think you're such a delight of a person as well. But it's wonderful that you're not stopping. I mean, don't get me wrong. I have my moments of being completely not energized and exhausted. And Clara will tell you this, my wife. But, and I hope I save enough energy for my family. But I think actually, you know, I keep saying this. I'm going to be a bit more sort of, I'm going to turn some things down and have a bit more time at home.

Frankly, a bit more time to recover, you know. You might as well make the most of it. And I'm lucky that there's interesting material and stuff to do. And I love my job. And, you know, one has to keep working as well. You know, it's, I have to earn a living, you know. And so I'm lucky that I've got a great thing to do. do, you know.

We said when you were on your hands, we talked about Clara. So she's got a fashion business. I mean, I follow her on Instagram. Yeah, well, she was in Leopoldstadt, or she still is in Leopoldstadt, the Tom Stoppard playing the West End. So she's trained as an actress, been an actress, but early on in her career, she's self-taught herself as a jeweller, and she's got a jewelry company called Clara Frances, which was very successful.

And now she's gone into a fashion brand, O Pioneers. and they're beautiful dresses using liberty prints and often liberty archive prints. So they're, she's got access to this incredible back catalogue of designs, of patterns, sorry, and she's made this new company and it's been going since November. And it's a sort of new world, isn't it, of the way that these, you can sell online. Take photographs, you create the world and the images and you can sell direct to the public. And so that's been one of the good things, nice, the things that's happened in lockdown for us.

Anyway, that she's, I'm so incredibly proud of her to be able to have done that whilst, you know, making sure, you know, looking after me and our young family as well. There's this wonderful photograph. I think it's either on yours or of hers. She looks like a sort of evergreen character from a long time ago. She has this extraordinary look of her that she could be from any era. Yeah, that's, that's very true. Yeah, she's got a kind of, uh, she's got a kind of, uh, she's got a sort of,

a sort of almost like 1920s kind of look to her. And sometimes she wears her hair up and, I'm getting into a lot of detail here. But, you know, she wears half as a sort of 20s and 30s and then she look completely modern. And the dresses, I suppose, are sort of, there's a throwback slightly to sort of, this kind of prairie dresses, but with this sort of much, sort of modern. Yes. Little House on the Prairie and 1970s as well. How did you two meet?

Was it, were you working together? Well, yes. I mean that's we gosh we met yeah years ago she was in the young met at the young Vic yeah and we got together and then we had a long journey where we weren't together anymore and then years later we came back and we've been together for you know 20 20 years now and got two young children and I've got older boys Freddy and Pip from my first marriage to Caroline wasn't Freddy in Nativity with you as well yeah Freddie was in a native So was Bessie, actually.

My daughter, my oldest daughter, she was, I think she was called Volumnia. I sort of christened her Volumnia. Volumnia? On the spot. And Freddie was... Oh, you cruel. Yeah, Sebastian, Freddie was, that's right. And he famously turned the sign round so that the opposition went the wrong way into Wales.

You know, it all makes sense. But Volumnia, I mean, only a father could do that to a daughter on me. their first film. Volumnia? Oh, no, that's cruel. I don't see you as a cruel man and yet somehow Volumnia. No, but Mr. Shakespeare is cruel, isn't it? I mean, he

is a cruel person. Please, can we have more of Mr. Shakespeare? That's out of the mouth of my 13-year-old who, as you know, is a massive film. I'd be very happy to send a little video to her personally. I don't know if I can do any more. I think I've exhausted

my Shakespeare of bones, perhaps. But it was a real, yeah, it was real joy to make. Well, like, if you could do one, Mrs. Shakespeare for her, and if you could do a very good, very strong W1A, because that has to come back. Yes, no, brilliant. So we got that, that can be for me.

And if you could do a dof, doff, doff because I'm an EastEnders fan, and then I'll watch you a MacDonald Dodds, and of course, around the world in 80 days, and then I'm completely Jason Watkinsed. You'll have my whole repertoire, yes, at your fingertip. Jason, you are such a delight. Thank you so much. And please send Clara, my love.

I will too. Such a joy to speak to you again. Lovely. Thank you. And you, Gabby. Bless you. Bye now. Thank you so much for listening. And thank you so much to our exclusive sponsor of this episode.

Go to Simprove.com and use the code Gabby 15 at checkout. On next week's episode, my guest is the actor and singer Luke Evans. That Gabby Rawlsend podcast is proudly produced by Cameo Productions. music by Beth Macari. Could you please press the follow button or the subscribe button? And each new episode will come straight to your phone on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you choose to listen. It's also incredibly helpful, if you wouldn't mind, if you could please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. Now, you do this by scrolling to the bottom of all the episodes and press tap to rate and write a review.

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