That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Joe Wicks and Dawn O’Porter

Episode Date: November 30, 2020

In this episode Gaby has two guests who want to make the world a better place. First she chats to TV presenter and author Dawn O’Porter. She talks about the charity she set up called ‘Choose Love��� that is now the greatest source of aid to the refugee crisis in Europe and has raised £30m. She speaks openly about her friendship and grief of losing Caroline Flack. How she fought off the competition to be with her hilarious actor husband Chris O’Dowd and singing karaoke together at home. The ups and downs of her career and her new book ‘Life In Pieces’ which is available now. Stay tuned as next up Gaby talks to ‘The Body Coach’ Joe Wicks MBE. He shares how he celebrated being awarded his MBE, how fitness changed his life especially through his challenging childhood with his father’s drug addiction, when he recalls using exercise as therapy. He congratulates fellow MBE Marcus Rashford on his achievements and tells us of his plan to get fitness into all schools.              Produced by Cameo Productions, music by Beth Macari.  Join the conversation on Instagram and Twitter @gabyroslin #thatgabyroslinpodcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And welcome to that Gabby Roslin podcast with me, Gabby Roslin. In this episode, we have two guests who genuinely make the world a better place. First up, we have the fabulous Dornow Porter. She talks about the charity that she's set up called Choose Love, helping refugees across Europe, which has now raised a phenomenal 30 million pounds. She speaks openly about her friendship and her grief of losing her best friend Caroline Flack, how she fought off the competition to be with her hilarious husband, Chris O'Dowd, and singing karaoke together at home.

And of course, her excellent new book, which I love, Life in Pieces, which is available now. After dawn, we have Joe Wicks, who radiates positivity. This was recorded before his incredible children in need achievement. So massive congratulations for that as well. What an incredible amount. We speak to him about how he celebrated getting his MBE, How fitness changed his life, especially through his challenging childhood. He congratulates fellow MBE Marcus Rashford and tells us of his plan to get fitness into all schools.

Okay, what was Joe talking about when he said this? It's right under there, yeah, right in between the you know what. It's very sore. It hardens up a little bit, if you like. Stay tuned to find out what Joe was talking about. But first up, gorgeous Dawn O. Porter. You are a phenomenon. life changer, you're a world changer and I absolutely mean that and I know that I'm lucky enough to

have interviewed you and met you a number of times but you really are and when I was doing all my research and thinking about all the things I wanted to talk to you about I realized I want to start with choose love I really think we have to your charity I mean 30 million pounds you've raised I know it's really it really blows my mind and you know we started it. to go back to the beginning, um, my friends, Josie and Leanna,

and oddly Caroline was there as well, but we were just out for lunch one Sunday. And I think it was Leanna who said, God, this, you know, the situation in Calais is so awful. And she was, she'd read up quite a lot,

but she knew a lot about it. And, um, she really kind of went into the details of what was happening. And Josie and I were just so upset by it all. Um, why isn't this just, not only headline news, but why,

why isn't there like a global appeal for help? like this just feels so inhumane. And so we decided over that lunch to, there may have been wine involved, which is when you come up with the best ideas, to try and get a truck full of supplies and send it to Calais to help the people in the camp. And so that felt like a really good idea.

And I was just like, right, we'll do it all through our Twitter feeds. And within 48 hours, we had 7,000 packages delivered where we had nowhere to store them, nowhere to store them. We never, ever in a million, years thought that would happen. We thought friends would drop off bags of clothes or stuff like that. We set up a wish list on Amazon so people could literally click on tent, buy it, send it straight to us in our storage unit. So we got, Big Yellow Storage gave us a room that we thought was going to be enough. And soon, by the end of the week, we'd taken over a whole floor and volunteers

from Twitter, like hundreds of them were coming to help us organize. Like, that room is for food, that room is for camping supplies, that room is for clothes. And then we had the challenge of we didn't have a truck. I was like, what truck? Like, how can I get this all there? And so anyway, then a huge company that never wanted to be named basically lent us a fleet of lorries to distribute everything. And we just pulled all resources and we shamelessly begged people to help us. And people came good.

It was absolutely amazing. We managed to get that truckload of supplies as promised to Calais. And as soon as you do something like that, you realize, you can't just go, there you go and walk away. You're just in it. That was like the most help they were getting. And what was also happening was lots of people were donating things, but people were just taking it to the camp

and dumping it in the middle of the camp, and it was just littering it and actually not useful. So what we did is we took over a warehouse about 10 minutes away from the camp and actually started organizing all the supplies and taking it into the camp where it was needed the most and delivered to people. So this whole organisation just started.

and it's my friend Josie who pretty much runs it now with her unbelievable team. I had a baby at the time and was also moving back to LA, so I kind of had to step back for a while from the actual day-to-day grind of it, but they carried it on Gabby. They didn't let it go. And now Choose Love is still the biggest source of aid to the refugee crisis across Europe. It's unbelievable. Dawn, that's such an amazing achievement.

you should be so proud. Oh, thank you. Can we now, please, talk about your book, Life in Pieces. It's a remarkable book. It's very funny, and you made me cry. Properly made me cry because it's you. I mean, you do, I think I've said to you before, what's so amazing about your writing is I can hear your voice.

Whenever you write, it's definitely your voice. But there are some things, and I've never done this before, but I've just, can I just read some of your bits of your book? Yes, sure. I do think we are all being taught a bigger lesson than we realize from all of this. I am loving harder than I've ever loved in my life. I was alone with my grief, but now the whole world is grieving too. It's odd for me to feel that anything is nice because what happened to Caroline was the worst thing that's ever happened to me.

Not just me, of course, so many people are hurting. Caroline has so many good friends. But somehow, with all that's going on, I'm being forced to find the positives, and I think I'm getting a grip on what they might be. What are they? What are the positives? Are my kids? And my marriage and my work. And I, you know, I've got to a point in my life where

when something catastrophic happened to me, luckily everything else was in a good place. But I think I'm always the kind of person It would be striving for more, never quite satisfied, worried that everything's going to fall apart. You know, there's just some, there's, I wouldn't even call it anxiety. There's just an energy behind me, which has got a kind of what next. Is everything okay? Who cares?

Just keep striving, striving, striving. And I think what this year made me do is it just made me just really sit with my situation and look at it and appreciate it. And I think in terms of, I mean, when Caroline died, it was. I mean, it was, I still, I mean, I'm still so in it. I'm still so, so, so devastated. It was, honestly, like someone had kicked me in my head. It's the only way I can describe it. I was, someone had kicked me in my head and I couldn't get up.

And I had to get up because I've got two small children. And I never told them that, you know, they're five and three, five and two and a half, half at the time. And they never knew I was sad. And some people might think I should have told them mummy's sad, but I just protecting their innocence as much as possible. Also, you know, and I just, I thought, no, I'm going to do with you. See, I had Chris right there with me and he was so sad, too, and we kind of just did it. And back then when it happened, so it's the 15th of February, we had a month of the world being normal. So, you know, we were kind of able to leave the house and process in a way. And it was just, it was, I flew back to England for her funeral and it was

on the way back that the borders were closing. I was on one of the last flights. And so it was almost like, and I know I say this in the book, but that week that I was in London without Chris and without the kids, because the week that I was going over to the funeral, people were saying, you know, starting to kind of float this word called lockdown and borders closing. And we didn't have a nanny. So we were going to be leaving the kids with our dog walker who also babysits for four days when we both came back to Caroline's funeral. And just before we left, Chris and I were like, this isn't, that's not, we can't do that if people are talking about the board is closing.

Because can you imagine if we couldn't get back to the kids? So Chris decided to stay. So I went back on my own and which I'm actually quite grateful for now because I got to be with my friend Josie and, you know, my kind of girl gang. and we could just be together the whole time, which was actually quite useful. But I remember that week knowing that if the world even tried to be normal, I couldn't be a part of the same world that I'd lived in before

without Caroline and after what happened. I was just too broken. And so I was sitting on the plane, I was just thinking, this is seismic. I feel everyone's in masks, everyone's anti-backing their chairs. It's all really weird. And I felt so kind of connected to the idea that this was all happening because my world could never be the same again. I was very kind of internal about it all.

And then we got back, I got back on the Thursday and, you know, the school shut on the Monday and that was it. We were in this weird year. And I've just spent the whole time thinking, is this good for grief or is this awful for grief? because I got to fully deal with my feelings, as in I got, you know, I got to kind of just think of her and live a very small life. But then as soon as things opened up a bit and I'd see friends, I was like, oh, I can't be in the world.

I've got no idea how to have a conversation with a person face to face about Caroline that isn't Chris. Like, every time you see someone new, you realize, oh God, she's not out here. That's how it feels. Like the idea of coming back to London, is just terrifying to me, the idea that she won't be there. So there's just going to be such a long process of this grief.

And I'm still, like I said, I just still don't know if lockdown was helpful or a hindrance in that process. What it has done for me is it's made me love my little team so much. I've always been very dedicated mom. I'm a very dedicated wife. I'm very, you know, domestic. But I would always be, how am I a mum? How this is ridiculous.

How am I suddenly a mom of two kids? This is so weird. It's like I'm living somebody else's life. And now I just feel like, oh God, no, this is exactly who I am. I am a mum. I've just so bonded with that side of my life over the course of the year. Do you believe, I mean, I don't know how you feel about death. We both lost it.

You were very young when you lost your mother. I lost my mum. She died many, many years ago. She was very young. But do you believe that people, are here for their allotted time and do what they're supposed to do because I think Caroline's legacy is quite extraordinary. Yeah, I do.

I mean, you know, she was only 40, but one thing that Chris and I just kept saying to each other was no one could have sucked more life out of those 14 years for Caroline. Like she, she just ticked so many boxes of what people are supposed to achieve and she achieved them like, you know, level 10. She brought, I mean, honestly, Honestly, it's a hard thing to say.

I just, what more could you want, you know, for somebody? It's 40, my mum died when she was 36. And I don't know her, so I don't know if she felt fulfilled in the things that she'd achieved. But it definitely, you've got, I don't know, it's a really difficult question. I keep saying at the moment, this is really morbid, sorry, but I've realised that I'm actually quite a morbid person. And if I was to die now, I would be sad for, be sad for my kids and be sad for Chris. But really, there was, I'm, I'm at a point where everything from this point is a bonus. I feel like I've gone, I've, I've, I've, I've lived my dreams.

I've found the love of my life. I've got two gorgeous children. I've, all I've wanted to do is have books published. So it's done. You know, I've travelled, I've done these things. Yeah, but there's so much more for you to do because you, you must not stop because you, you, you, you, you, Like I said, you're a world changer. You really are.

You're a people changer. You're a lifesaver. All of those things. And so you cannot stop, but I see what you mean about that you've done what you wanted to do. But surely dreams, hopes and ambitions carry on, don't they? They do. They do. They do. They do.

But I just think in terms of the question of, do you think that people are here for there a lot of time? It's a lovely romantic idea and I'd love to believe it. But I don't know. I just, I wish Caroline had just, hung on to see that the world that was going to move on from what she thought everyone cared about worry about themselves, you know? You had this extraordinary bond and friendship and that is the most isn't friendship the most wonderful thing? Friendship is the most wonderful thing and you know you get

different things from different people like my friendship with Caroline was just very loving and just so funny. Honestly, when when For the week after she died, I kept saying to Chris, which is probably quite offensive, who's going to make me laugh like that? Oh, that's great to say to Chris. Yeah, I know. You must have loved that. But I was like, but you know, that was the thing.

I mean, that was things like she, I laughed till I wet my knickers when I talked to Caroline like that. Where's that going to go? Where's that going to go? But, you know, female friendship to me, when you get good ones, just therapy every day. It is just the lack of judgment, the offload. the sharing, the everything from, you know, vagina woes to marriage woes to parenting woes to all. It's all open doors. I love it. I love it. Couldn't live without my girls. I couldn't live without them. I feel the same. I think they're fantastic. Friends to me, a family. There's just the same thing.

Can we just, you talking about your lovely husband, Chris, I just, what a joy of a man. But I love the story of that first night and the two of you and he danced with you for an hour. Oh, I know. And you knew you were going to marry. him. I mean, that's so romantic. I know. It's weird. I've been single for my entire 20s and had literally just said to myself, because I'd been out in LA for a year, I'm going to take a year off dating because the men out here is anyone who's, anyone who ever meet who's dating in LA will tell you the same thing. It's not a great town for dating. And I just, having thought, what I thought had quite good taste kept to admit like four back-to-back disasters. So I was

despondent about men, say the least, about to 10.30. And on my, 30th birthday, Chris had started to chat me up a bit on Facebook and I didn't know who he was. And so on my 30th birthday, he asked me to go bowling and I said, no, but come to my party and bring all your friends because I didn't know many people and didn't think anyone would come. And at midnight, he walked in and I was dancing with my dad, who was a big hairy Celt. And in walks, this other big hairy kelp. And I was like, step aside pops. And Chris just put out his arms.

And I just remember thinking that wingspan is unbelievable because he's so huge. And we just danced. And then the next morning, but he also danced with my friend Erica, who had lent me her Pilate studio for my 30th birthday party. So we were in her place. And the next morning, she texts me and she said, oh my God, that guy last night was so hot. And I actually replied, he's my. I'm, I'm not even, I'm not even. I'm not even going to get into a back and forth about this.

It's not even best woman first. Back off. It's mine. And I think she said something like, well, only because it's your birthday. I'm going to give this time to you. And so he moved in with me. Like, it's like three months later or something. It's my really girly apartment.

He moved in with me. It's mad. But you two are a complete fit. We are. Yeah. You're a proper fit. It's supposed to be. Well, you know, oh God, you say this to someone.

Anyone who's married and just done lockdown will be, you know, we have our moments. But we definitely, I definitely can't imagine being with anyone else. And I hope that he'd say the same thing. We're very similar and also very different all at the same time. And we have a really good time. We have a really, really good time. You've got, you're very, you've got that wonderful naughty twinkle. And he has as well.

Yeah. And I can just imagine the two of you when you're really out to be naughty. just there will be no stopping me too. No it's pretty fun it's definitely we definitely sometimes we'll turn out to a party and I I mean this is going to make me so much dick I remember turning up to a party that wasn't very fun and I just said god they're so lucky we just turned up and um and it ended up being a really fun party we're good we're good guests yeah we're good guests so does he love crisps as much as you do oh god I love I love for all things potato which is why our dog is cool potato is extreme. Yeah, we eat a lot. We both, I mean, thank God I did lockdown with someone

who loves to be cooked for and will eat anything and is an indulgent man because that first five months of it was so indulgent. I just cooked and cooked and cooked and we drank so many margaritas and we actually, you know, got through it by being indulgent. I was like, if the rest of the world is taken away from us, we're going to live a delicious life. One of my favorite things that I, that I read and I remember saying this to you before as well is the crisps in a sandwich, just do it. Just do it. Oh my God.

Just really soft bread, butter and crisps in a sandwich, salt and vinegar crisps in a sandwich. Oh. There's nothing better. Just brilliant. You know when you trained as an actress? Oh God, yeah. How badly did you want to be an actress? And then how badly did you not want to be an actress?

God, that's a really nice question. But when I was growing up on Guernsey, I knew I wanted to be, I knew I wanted to, you know, jazz hands be out there, center stage. So it was always acting was the obvious thing. I mean, when I went to drama school in Liverpool, I just didn't enjoy it. I thought I was going to love it. I didn't really, I have confidence. I'm such a confident person, but it was in a different kind of way. I'm really confident when I'm being myself.

I'm not very confident when I've got to, like, act and be something else. I just didn't, that connection just wasn't happening. And I just didn't enjoy it at all. And so by the third year, I'd kind of stopped acting. The teachers loved me for it. And I was doing things like, instead of doing plays, I would ask if I could do a radio project or if I could do, you know, try and make a TV show or something like that.

And it just, it just fizzled out. So by the time I'd left drama school, I didn't want to be an actress anymore. And when I got down to London, I started working as a runner in TV and I worked in TV production for years and then kind of ended up on screen. And then what was weird is I ended up doing documentaries

and I thought I always wanted to be a TV presenter. And so I did a lot of docs and I did enjoy it. Brilliant docs, brilliant songs. Yeah, it was great. And amazing life experiences. Like I lived with Mormons and I lived as a gay show and I went to Russia and interviewed, you know, male-old brides. And I did all these amazing things that for me now just,

so I can't believe some of the stories are coming out of my mouth when I tell people these things. But now I really just don't enjoy being on TV at all. Really? Yeah. Why did that change then? I think what happened. I came out to L.A. 10 years ago to make a series called Extreme Wife. That was the Mormons and the Gaysha and all those.

Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah, it was brilliant. And then Channel 4 had said, are we going to give you a second series? So I stayed in L.A. and I got an apartment and I decorated it all in 1950s furniture. And then I waited and I waited and I waited and I waited. And 10 months of me, because I couldn't work for anyone because of visa issues.

And 10 months of me waiting, they called me and said, we're not going to give you a second series. You're kidding me. It was as blunt as that. Oh yeah. And it was well, actually, it was a lovely guy called Andy and he just said, are you sitting down? And I literally fell down.

And he said, we're not giving you a second series. I was living in another country. Couldn't work for anyone else. I had a lot of momentum for my career in the UK, but that had all gone because things move on very quickly. And they literally just pulled the rug out from under me. So I kind of stayed in L.A. for a bit and just couldn't get anything off the ground again with Channel 4. I don't know what happened.

They just totally changed their mind on being doing stuff for them. And then I had about four years of just not being able to pull it back at all. So a year later, I was going to go back to England. And that was just when I met Chris. And so I ended up staying. And it was the weirdest year because I wasn't in a brilliant place. I was actually, I mean, I've never really suffered from depression, but I was really sad and, you know, really unconfident.

And Chris had done bridesmaids that year. So I was literally going through this career crisis next to someone who was breaking Hollywood. And I just was, it's not that it was a competitive feeling because lucky I have no interest in acting. It was just like this daily reminder that I was just failing really badly. You weren't failing. Can let me just interrupt you because you weren't actually failing

because you weren't, there was no failing, you hadn't done something that was bad, they just hadn't said you're going again. So in your eyes you were failing, but there wasn't anything you were actually failing out. No, but yeah, that's right. But in my eyes, I really was failing. I'd had great success in my 20s

and then it all just, I turned 30 and it disappeared, Gabby. Like literally no work. So then I got a weekly column with Stylist magazine. I thought, oh my God, this is great. it was a good income. It's a weekly column. I reminded me how much I love writing because I'd always written.

And then they sacked me. Oh my God. Well, they just said one day that we just, you're sorry, it's not right for the magazine. We don't want you to do it anymore. And what was even more hurtful is they didn't even replace me because they didn't really want anyone else. They just gave random people every week somebody else.

I was like, it was so embarrassing. Anyway, so that happened. I had a full nervous breakdown, like full total cash of confidence crash of confidence on all levels, didn't know what my name was, didn't know what was doing. And I said to Chris, I need to go back to London for a bit because I can't do anything here in LA. I can't do anything.

So we went back to London for a while, for a couple of years. And that was when I just got this random call from this book publisher called Emily, Emily Thomas, who I owe an awful lot to. And she just called me and said, I was reading your column in Stylus magazine. and I think you'd write really well for teenagers. Have you ever considered writing fiction? And I've always wanted to write fiction, but I thought it would be when I'm 60 in the garden shed

and just try and write a novel and maybe if I'm lucky I'll sell it. So it was a terrifying proposition, but I said, yeah, actually, I would. And she gave me a two book deal, my first fiction books for paper airplanes and goose, and I wrote the books. And as soon as I started writing fiction, I was like, I'm out of TV anyway. I don't, I don't really care what jobs come up. I, this is what, this is what makes me happy. I'm totally in control.

If I keep writing, I will always work. I don't feel like my work goes off to a bunch of people who then tear it apart and re-edit it and make me say a voiceover that I don't really believe or I don't really want my face. So I go on TV and I think I've done a good job and just everyone says that I look, I've got a stupid fringe and blah, blah, blah is my hair. I'm going, why am I in that world? So it was that. When I really started writing properly, that's when I realized, I really don't want to be on TV anyway.

And so then that was kind of that decision made. And now my poor TV agent has had to come to terms with that over the years. Every now and then something comes in that I think, I could think about that. I could think about that. I'll think about that one. And then it's generally not what I want to do. I think that's a shame. As far as a viewer goes, I think you are brilliant on television.

And I know you don't like. You're not very good to taking compliments. But I remember saying that to your face. We were the Albert Hall about to do something for comic relief. And I told you you were a brilliant presenter and you were all embarrassed. And then you hit me. But it was fine. It was a very friendly hit. It was fine. You went, no, stop. You're not allowed to say it. Hang on a minute. Were we just about to go on stage and play in the biggest kazoo? Yes, kazzoos. We all had kizuzos in our hands. hand and Chris was teasing me about wearing red jeans. I've never had red jeans before or since

and I had some red jeans on because it was for comic relief. Strange things that you remember in your life. But the woman that said to you about the two book deal, she's pivotal in your life, isn't she? What, she changed your life. She did. It's amazing how when you look back on people that just come in at the right time. I mean, if she'd have come to me a year earlier, I wouldn't, I wouldn't have done it. You know, I was, I was, I was, I've gone back to London to try and work this out. I was just really receptive to new stuff. And it was, yeah, it was really amazing. And I think also with, um, with like being on TV, it's, I, you know, I also would never say never and there's, there's certain things that would be really fun to do. But the hours are really, really hard when you've got a young

family. And I, I, I used to, the great thing about my documentaries was, I was all in Gabby. I was like, pick me up at five in the morning, drop me off at midnight. I was, I was, I was, I was, really up at five in the morning, drop me off at midnight. I will work 18 hour days eating only from, you know, petrol stations, and I am willing to do anything. But I couldn't do that anymore. So then I'd be doing it half-heartedly, so there's not much point in that. It's just interesting. I've written down a word. I've got scribbles all over a piece of paper, and I've got the word fate. Do you believe in fate then? Yeah, I think I do believe in fate. I feel like it would have been really unfair for me to not end up with a a job that I was willing to work really hard at it. So in terms of that whole story I just told you,

I feel like fate was always going to be on my side in terms of being okay work-wise. Fate in terms of, you know, the way that I met Chris, I was actually seeing somebody else that night. I was going, I had another boyfriend and who weirdly, his dad's birthday was on the 23rd of January, same as mine. So for some weird reason, this guy that I was seeing was out the country with his dad, the night I met Chris. There's things like that. Oh my word. You just think what are the chances of that?

Otherwise he would have been there at the party and that would have just been that. So also sliding door moments. Yeah. Those extraordinary things that happen. And so I do. I do believe in fate and I do believe that all, you know, awful things happen that teach you wider lessons like we'll all realize with lockdown and, you know, not that there's anything positive to get out of what happened to Caroline.

But it's definitely going to, it's smashing. my head open in a way that life could never have done otherwise with, you know, the way that I feel and sympathy for people and the way that I love and the way that I appreciate. So in some kind of weird way, even the worst things that happen to you are all, they all, yeah, so cheesy, but they all make you who you are, didn't they? It's not. But also I read about you that you don't like the word lucky. I slightly resent it. When people say to me, I say, you know, for example, I've got a book coming out and they say, oh, you're so lucky. I'm like, oh, I mean, I just don't, I work constantly.

I don't feel lucky. I feel like if I didn't do what I do, I wouldn't have achieved these things. So I feel like in some terms, I'm lucky to be healthy. I'm lucky to have healthy children. I'm lucky there are certain things, but I think there's for some areas of my life, even my marriage. Am I lucky? No, I work hard at my marriage. You know, I had to dump a boyfriend to be in this marriage. That's not like that. His father had the same birthday. I mean, please. Well, you know, I'm obsessed with my birthday. So the idea that his attention would be taken away from me on my birthday

was never going to work. But so there's some things that it's not luck. It's just making good decisions. And I think it's important to like commend people for making good decisions. There's also a lovely story that I know you shared before, but there is, I'm obsessed. It's just, I'm obsessed with reading benches. And I've always, and I've wanted to do, I wanted to do a story about it for a TV show. And everyone said, no, people just sit on a bench. They don't read them. I said, no, everybody does.

And then you had that story of exactly that thing, watching a man and a bench. Will you share that story again? It was so moving. So my last book, my last book, So Lucky, was inspired by that moment. I was sitting on a park bench in London two summers ago. And this man just ran up to me, very handsome man, probably in his 50s, shirt off, like running, but he had so much anger in him. But he probably a decent person.

He just felt like a man probably with a stressful job who was out trying to get the stress out of him. That's the kind of vibe I would get. And he ran out to me, he said, please move off the bench. and my immediate reaction was fuck you I'm not moving that's so rude and then I just looked at him and I was like

okay because I just saw something in his eyes he said sorry please would you mind sitting on that bench over there and then I watched him and he cleaned bird poo off the whole bench with a packet of wet wipes that he was carrying in his hand and then he sat on the bench and he kind of put his head in his hands

and looked out at the park and then he just got up and ran off but calmer And so I went over and I saw a plaque on the bench that was for a young girl and it was clearly his daughter. There was no, you know, it was just what I witnessed, there was no way that that wasn't his bench. And I was so struck by it because it was one of those classic moments of everyone is fighting a battle you know nothing about. And when someone is rude or someone is abrupt, you presume they're just rude and abrupt and they've ruined your day. and if you just step back for a second and think, hang on a minute,

what's going on with this person and just, you know, observe. And I did. And it was, I mean, I sat on the bench and just, I was watching, actually watching my kid playing in the park. I just think, oh, that poor man. And so that little scene inspired a whole book of just that you don't know what's going on for somebody. You really don't. We are very unaware.

of the mental anxiety that people are going to going through obviously we see somebody with crutches because they've broken their leg but you can't see what's going on inside inside inside their mind inside their heart i know i know and you know and you know i think it's like like you said i mean i i i had an experience in the park a couple of weeks ago with this guy just he was playing tennis and he just started yelling at me and the kids for being noisy in a park and i it was he was so aggressive towards me and then he smashed a hit a tennis ball at the fence. No. And I was just yeah and I was just there with my kids just a normal guy young playing tennis and it twigts something in me where I was going to walk away and then I just turned around and I turned in to a

monster. I turned in to a legitimate, a legitimate monster. A legitimate monster. I love that. Okay. Yeah. And so as as he started like got really sweary at me and really aggressive. but then tried to ignore me playing tennis. I just stood on the side lines and I said this. Oh dear, your form's terrible. You need to get some lessons. Oh, you missed it again. And I just taunted him.

And I just went on and on and on. I couldn't stop. And I was like, no, this isn't the right way to react. But I also am a mother of two boys. I don't want them to ever think that women just walk away from confrontation. I want them to understand that, you know, a woman has to stick up for herself.

But my kid was like, okay, mommy, I think you've done. I love that. I was like, I know, but I was just like, oh, oh, are your shoes too small? Your shoes are too small. And also, and I was like that, and also that colour T-shirt really doesn't work for you. You should be wearing white. And then he got more aggressive than me. I was like, dude, like this isn't, it's not Wimbledon, mate.

It's a park. And he just, and then I just kind of walked away. And as I walked away, like my heart is thumping. I'm going, I'm thinking, oh, my God, I'm going to be sick. But just walk away, walk away, thinking, oh, my God, is he going to follow me and like smack me over the head with a tennis racket. but I was like, I just had to react. And then other times you see people's aggression and you're just like, oh, you know, just like, don't worry about it.

And other times it really does something to you and it's kind of unstuffable. Yeah, but you didn't just shout and swear at him. You actually, you created one of the best sketches for a comedy moment. Maybe that's your next book. Can we talk music? Because obviously you wrote especially for you, the musical. But what's music to you?

What do you and Chris dance to? Because you said that he, he danced. He came up and you danced together. What do you two dance to? What were you dancing to in lockdown? Oh gosh. I mean we did do quite a bit of karaoke because Chris sent me up with a karaoke machine. Love it. Love karaoke. Yes. I know, me too. And then favourite song, go on. My absolute classic is Dolly Part 9 to 5. But then I will do, I also love doing a bit of Carpenters. I love, I mean, my repertoire is huge actually, Gabby. It's just an impossible question to answer. Which Carpenter's song though? Is it? A bit of Carpenter's song, though,

Is it, oh God, I do birds suddenly? Yes, I do that. Also, Chris and I love doing Cindy Lauper together. We do a lot of Cindy Lauper together. And I'm also, my favorite song to do on karaoke at the moment is just like Jesse James by Cher. It's a lesser known Cher song that she doesn't particularly like, but it's just so good. Chris and I listened to a lot of Solomon Burke and Sam Cook is on all the time. Oh, I went through a big stage in isolation of just listening to loads of Nora Jones.

Oh, I love Nora Jones. I mean, it's such good. It's so good. Like, we put the kids to bed, put on some Nora Jones, pour some wine and cook, Chris and I something delicious. I was like,

this is what she was, is all about. It's dinner time, isn't it? And she just like to relax you at the end of the day. And it was just, I got, yeah, I really,

really enjoyed it. So, yeah, but Chris and I would dance a lot to those kind of old 60s, 70s type music, I think. And your boys as well, I get the feeling that reading all the bits and pieces that you've said about Chris, that he's an incredible father. He really is. I mean, I, you know, just good Irish stock, very family-orientated.

It's never been an issue for us to share the childcare. He would always get up in the night with the baby if they didn't need feeding. He'd get up if they didn't need feeding. If they didn't need my boobs. Oh, I see. So he would get up and sit with them for hours. Yeah. That was the one thing. he couldn't do is breastfeed. But, you know, if they was, yeah, art was always the most amazing sleeper

Valentine was a total disaster. So I'd give him a boob and then Chris would take over quite happily and sit up with him for hours in the middle of the night. He's that kind of guy. And, yeah, very, very, very loving dad. And so playful. I mean, this is, you know, you read the book. You see that I feel like I'm very functional.

And lockdown has taught me how to play with my kids and be with them a lot more. Yes. because I always used to watch the way that Chris would just play with them for hours and hours and not get bored. I'd go, I'd be right. Right, okay, I'm going to do Lego. Let's get down on the floor and do Lego. And then they'd yell at me because I did all of the yellow Lego wrong.

And then suddenly we're having a fight about Lego and I'm like, do you know what? I'm just going to make lunch. And that would be the extent of my playing before lockdown. And so, but Chris would just play with them for hours. Like come up with games and like chase them at the park. I mean, I'm in awe of that, to be honest. Do you know what also is so lovely, that one? when you talk about him.

I can hear your eyes twinkling. I'm going back to your twinkly eyes again. You too with your twinkly eyes. We're quite twinkly eyes. So can we just talk about fashion? Because I am sitting here, and even though you can't see me, I'm wearing the shirt I bought, it's one of your shirts, and it's with dinosaurs and toys on it.

Oh, the boys toys. Are you going to go back and do fashion again? Would you do anything to do with fashion? because you just, what you, it's, this shirt, everybody goes mad about it when I wear it. I don't know why I put it on because I knew I was speaking to you and it seems ridiculous. I now have said it. Oh my God, what was like that? It's just a bit crazy, but I am sitting here doing it.

But will you go back to that side? Because that's you, fashion was such a big part of your life. And I still love it. The thing is, is it's so, I'm not a businesswoman and honestly I'm the world's worst businesswoman. I, I couldn't do that. of the business. And I was really good designer and I knew exactly what I wanted everything to look like, but, and I'm a good marketer and I'm good at like, you know, promoting and all of the, all of the visual and fun stuff. But I just, I'm just a terrible, terrible business person. I don't

want anything to do with it ever, ever again. Manufacturing clothes is hands down the hardest thing I've ever done. I'm still in a lot of debt from it that I'm going to be paying off for years because I put or my own money into it. And in some ways, I really succeeded. And in other ways, I just didn't. And I started the business when I was seven months pregnant with art, my first kid on the same day that I signed my first two book, like grown up book deal.

And that I just think of when I had art sitting on my bed with my computer next to me on the phone begging investors to give me money with a baby on my boob. That was like the first three months of parenting for me. And then when I was, and it just got more and more stressful. And then when I was seven months pregnant with Valentine, I just walked into the living room one day and I said to Chris,

I'm going to close the business tomorrow. I'm done. Wow. I just got some investment and I could either devote my life to it fully, which would be running a business, because there's actually very little creative to do when you're actually running a business. And or I didn't and I just walked away,

which is why I'm going to be in debt for a long time, but it was the best decision I ever made. Honestly, I think I felt like I was floundering. And meanwhile, my writing career was going very well and it was ruining it because I never could be unstressed enough to write anything. So I would never go back to having a business and doing that again. I really miss sourcing and selling vintage clothing.

But if I ever did that again, it couldn't be, it would have to be more of a hobby. You know, it's not the amount of time it takes. And with my writing, it would be one. day maybe I'll have a little, if we move to a little seaside town, I'd probably get a little shop and just buy and sell vintage clothing, but only open on Tuesdays or something. Right, I'm going to put it Tuesdays in my diary for when you do that because I love your clothes. Are you, so you're in the, in a cupboard, are you in the cupboard that you wrote the book in

and that gave you the inspiration? Because on the back of your book, it says, Dorn and Porter has been thinking about life in lockdown, mostly from a cupboard. The high the lows finding comfort in the chaos and the new normal that is anything but is that are you in the same cupboard no i cried in cupboards i used to go in cupboards be emotional we moved house so now my office is the spare room used to have a wardrobe in it that we took the wardrobe out and it's kind of tucked away around a little corner like a tiny little cubby a bit like a really small podcast studio and we took the wardrobe out and put a desk in it so i have this little kind of writing nook which used to be a wardrobe which i'm sitting in now and i love it love cover

You've got to do a book about cupers next. Because I really, I mean, I think magic is a word for you because I, like I said, and I will say it to anybody that will listen to me that I think you're a life changer and a world changer. And it's an absolute joy to speak to you. I'm very much in awe of you for all the right reasons. Please give Chris my love and kiss those boys. Oh, I will. If anything that has come out of this year is this lovely book and it's just wonderful. Dawn, thank you.

You're a joy. Thank you, Gabby. Thank you. And now, as promised, Joe Wicks, MBE. I've got to just tell you, and you know this for a fact. I have, because I do it every day, I do your workouts and I have just done, because I knew I was speaking to you, I've just done your 10 minute abs, but I do the one that you did in the hotel where you go to 14 minutes. So I've done 14 minute apps. Oh, yes.

You love that. You might sound like, you might hear. that I'm out of breath, I've literally just jumped off my peloton. So I did a 30 minute Peloton ride and it was a Hamilton special. So I love the music of Hamilton. So I was like so excited to do it. But yeah, that's why I'm a little bit out of breath. I've just jumped off the bike. I have a thing about bicycles. I mean, I can get personal, but I don't want to. It's a sort of female thing. I'm not great with a saddle. Yeah, I mean, I get the same. Like, it's quite hard to get used to. But you know, I've got a road bike. It's called, what do you call it? Like saddle sores and stuff, isn't it? Where you just, yeah, like, bruised. It's right

under there, yeah, right in between the you know what. It's very sore. But it's kind of, as you do it more, you get more conditioned to it and you sort of, it hardens up a little bit if you're like, and you can do longer miles. Oh, you're such a joy. But your actual workouts online, you're just so accessible to everybody. Well, thank you for doing my workouts. But one thing I want to ask you, though, is because I know you do the abs ones, but do you actually do the proper like 25 minute hit, the high intensity ones as well? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do the hit and then I go and do the abs as well. And, you know, And if I don't do you and I'm out and about, if I go for a big long walk, I then do the abs five times a week.

That's amazing. Did you do my peer with Joe work at during lockdown? Yes. Yeah. I did yours and I did another one. So we did it because the family did it. I think I messaged you that what was so lovely was that my youngest daughter, my oldest daughter, who were 13 and 19, and my husband and I were all doing it together.

And they loved the fact that their cousins were doing. it around the world at the same time. And that sort of brought the world. That sounds very heavy, but it did. It made the world smaller. Oh, I love that. That's wonderful. I'm glad they all took part and enjoyed. I miss doing it now, you know. Before we go any further, oh my word. When I saw it pop up on my news, I, I WhatsApped you instantly. Congratulations on the MBE. Oh, thank you so much. I couldn't believe it. I was like, I saw the article. Someone tweeted me and it was quite late, I think it's Saturday morning actually, and I was just like, wow, like I couldn't believe that, you know,

because I'm such a, like, I'm a normal guy, I'm not like super talented, I'm like an artist or a musician or, you know, an amazing actor that's been in the industry for like 50 years. I've just really just shared my passion and I've been there for people through fitness and I just, I'm really proud of it. And I went out with my mum and celebrated and had a little dinner with my mum on the weekend. Oh, what did she say? She's so proud because when I was little, like her friends always, you know,

she had me really young. She was only 19 when she had me. and all her friend used to say we were going to be, you know, wrong ones and we were going to end up in prison on drugs and stuff. And so she's just so proud that like we ended up, you know, me and my brothers, you know, we ended up making right decisions and going on to do good things. So she's super proud of me. Oh, it's so lovely.

So you get, but you get a letter first, don't you, asking you if you're going to accept it. So when you got that letter, did that just blow your mind? Yeah, I didn't believe it at first and I didn't tell anyone. Well, I told Rosie, my wife, but I didn't want to tell my mum and dad. I thought it would be fun for them to find out. you know near the time like when the actual list was announced so i kept it to myself and um yeah i obviously said yeah i'd love it i'd love to have the NBA it wasn't something i planned on but it's a nice

it's icing on the cake for me that the success of p with joe and the impact it had was really my proudest achievement that's what i'll remember like the NBA is just a nice little thing to recognize it and remind me but it really was such an amazing time for me to to be locked in my house helping so many people through that time and get them moving and feeling positive and happy and yeah i think it's just like the highlight of my career. I'm so proud of it. Oh, it's so wonderful. And I remember speaking to you, was it the week before, two weeks before, and you were going to do one live one. And you were talking about, I think it was a Sunday evening live. So you came on my radio show and you said, I just, I'm thinking I might do this every day. So at that stage, and I know I've

spoken to you throughout, but at that stage, you had no idea that hundreds and hundreds of millions of people were going to be viewing these and people you break you know the Guinness world record of the most watched live thing on YouTube you had no concept of that when you launched in to do that first live on the Sunday night did you no I had no idea it's going to be so well received and and spread and shared across all media I had so many interviews like around the world and I think it was just a people were like needing something they felt like they you know they were emotional they were anxious they were a little bit you know they were fearful about what's going on And I thought, if I can deliver a session for 30 minutes and not mention COVID, not mention the lockdown and just have fun and all let loose for 30 minutes, you know, with the dancing and the silly billy.

And I was doing, you know, fancy dress Fridays. I made it fun and interactive with the quizzes and the spot the difference. And I didn't know that so many people were going to do it. And also for so long, right, I did it for 18 weeks. So I remember, I also broke my hand. So I had a cast on my hand the whole time. And I just, I was so committed. I just thought, I'm never, I'm not going to miss this.

I need to be there. this responsibility and this kind of desire to want to be there for people every single day. And it helped me get through lockdown, you know, emotionally, because exercise also helps me and my mental health. And it helped millions of families. 80 million families took part over the 18 weeks. 80 million. Yeah, 80 million. That's mad. That's just, that is, because you can't, you can't visualize that. You know, people say, oh, well, there's a football stadium watching. You can't visualize 80 million people. Yeah, well the first workout we had just over 800,000 and I thought it's not going to go more than that. And then the second day, we had 954,000 live streams. But you have to imagine, like,

some of those were schools and some of them were families of four or five people in the house. So it was more like tens of millions of people a day were actually doing it, not just the live streams. Oh my word. How does Rosie take all this? Well, she was with me through the whole thing. And I say to her, like, you know, the MBE really is between me, Nikki, and Rosie, because she was there every day, you know, watching the kids, keeping them quiet or sometimes they run in and broke free and they were in their workouts of me and and and she also stepped in you know when i broke my hand out to go back to the hospital because i had an infection and i spent two weeks two nights in the hospital and on the monday morning she said look i'd love

to help you and be there for you so she dressed up in her sports kit and that's really out of her comfort zone for her to come and do that on a live stream and i was there my shirt and tire on my little clipboard so i was like the teacher and rosy was the teaching assistant and and you know it was so wonderful for her to do that and every single day nicky my brother was on the was in my you know, my AirPods reading out all the comments and the shout-out. So he was there every single morning as well, and that's why it's really a shared MB, because I couldn't have delivered that session the way I did without them too.

You're incredibly generous person, aren't you? You're always about giving. I just feel like it's when you help your mum or your sister or you help your neighbour, you do something kind for someone. The feeling you get when you do that, it feels wonderful, doesn't it? So you have to imagine, for me, for 80 million families and kids and, you know, sending letters and cards and DMs and tweets all day saying, I love the workout, thank you.

Like that, that's an amazing energy source for me that really does keep me going. On those days where I didn't fancy it and I was about to jump in front of the camera, I just reminded myself of how important this was for people. And I put on my brave face, I had a laugh and as I got into it, you know, I really enjoyed it as well. But that, for me, from the very first day I started out as a personal trainer, and my goal was to help people, you know, whether it's one-to-one or with my boot camps, help them to feel confident and happy and, you know, improve their mental health. And it's the same today.

Like when I post a story on Instagram or I post a workout on YouTube, It's the same aim. It's just obviously on a bigger scale of a much larger audience. I mean, so when you started out, you were a teaching assistant. So to me, that's still the same thing. You're giving. It's always about giving. But you're teaching assistant.

But what was that moment that you just thought, no, I want to do personal training and then I'm going to do social media? I mean, how did that change? It's a massive life change. Well, my ambition, really, from a young age, I made this decision at about 14, was to go to university to become a PE teacher because I had such a great relationship with my PE teachers.

I really respected them and I love PE and I really think back to when I used to do that. I was always the one like running out onto the pitch and getting everyone rounded up to start because I just couldn't wait to do that lesson whereas every other lesson I was very disruptive and just, you know, distracted and I was a bit of a clown. But with PE, so I almost was in a way a little mini body coach back then. And then I went to university, I done my degree in sports science and I thought I'll work as a teaching assistant for a year and I loved it, but it was very challenging. I think teachers is such an under, I suppose it's like it's the most challenging thing and it's such a,

it takes so much patience and time and consideration and energy and I thought, I don't think I have that. I just didn't think I was ready for a career in that. So so much respect for teachers and also teaching assistants. And then I made the decision, well, what do I love? I love exercise. I love fitness. So I'm going to do my personal training qualification. And from that moment, I just fell in love. I just loved it. I went and set up a boot camp and I was doing one-to-one personal training. Yeah, but how did you do that? I mean, that's, but that, see, that's the thing. You go, okay, you say, I'm going to go be a personal trainer, and we know that there are so many personal trainers, people wanting to do that and personal trainers out there.

But then becoming this sensation that you did and setting up a boot camp. I mean, there's, not everybody thinks in that scale, you know, I know, I know the scale we talk about was pretty small then compared to where you are now, but that was still a big step. And then suddenly taking it online and doing social. with it. I mean, was there anybody that said to you, you know what, do a boot camp, you know what, do social media? Was this all in your head? I just had this desire to want to like be my own boss and be independent and work for myself. The options are, you know, you become a personal trainer. You can go and work in a gym and you can pay a rent or you get a salary from a gym and that's fine, but I felt like

I wanted to do it on my own. I wanted to be my own boss and so I just thought I'm going to set up a boot camp and that was really hard at first. You know, I've always talked about this like nobody came, nobody was there, but I have this voice, this positive cheerleader that just says, keep going back, you know, keep flyering, it will grow. And I applied that mentality to my YouTube, to my Instagram, to my Facebook. But you have to understand, my ambition was to become a school teacher. Then my ambition changed to become a boot, you know, I have a couple of boot camps. I thought if I can have two or three locations, that would be an amazing little business and I'll be really happy, I didn't have these grand ideas of becoming an author and having books and DVDs.

That was something that came out of the passion, like the passion and just the drive to always share content that led to all these amazing opportunities. Yeah, so for you, I mean, I think you were one of the frontrunners of the whole of using social media for the good, for the good of mankind. And that sounds very dramatic, but it is for the good of mankind. So I remember the very first time I interviewed you was a few years ago and people knew who you were and there was a sort of, there was a thing about your, you know, but I can't do. I love the way you do your recipes online. And that's what you were sort of known for. Go on. Give us. a bit of that. Oh, it's chaos. So it's chaos. And I used to go, in with a Lucy B, Mange 2,

sugar snaps, green beans, rice in the mic, add your chicken, fry a bit of soy sauce in, and that right there is lean in 15. And that was it. That was how it started. So I love it. When I look back now, when I look back at those videos, I go, oh, I cringe, because I think, oh, oh, I'm so loud and annoying, but something about that video just caught people's attention and it, like, it stood out, it made people laugh, you know, I'd hang out the window and I'd be silly. I think it just caught people's attention and made them think, actually, you know, He's having fun. He's teaching himself to cook.

He's making healthy food. The big shift was when I got the cookbook deals, you know, because that really took it to the mainstream household I was doing this morning and, you know, Good Morning Britain and Sunday brunch and all those little moments just like lifted my profile. But it's weird because I sort of started in fitness.

Then it went all cooking and recipe books. Now it sort of shifted back to fitness, if you like, with the YouTube and the growth of that. But how ironic that I actually ended up being a P teacher, I ended up being, you know, I had that dream at 14. All these years later, I've essentially been a virtual PE teacher for like millions of people.

So it's just, it was always in me. Even I'm not working in school. I'm still visit us when I can. I'm going around to UK schools and Ireland and I'm visiting as many schools as I can. Because I get the energy. When I see the crowd of young kids exercising and I see myself and think about the lives they live and how difficult their home life might be and you just see them having a really good time. And at that moment, I realize that that's me, that's who I was.

I had a rough upbringing and I had a chaotic household. But when I was at school and exercising and doing PE, whatever it may have been, I felt really happy. And so that's what makes me happy seeing kids do it as well. When you look back on your childhood, if you'd had somebody like you, do you think it would have changed you? I mean, I suppose you know that, don't you?

It would have. Yeah, I think, you know, I didn't have any positive role models, really other than my school teachers, I suppose, because my dad was in and out of the house, he weren't there much. And I think having that relationship, if I was a kid and I saw someone like Pee,

would Joe body coach doing that, I would be so inspired because I'd know that he's having fun, he's doing it at home, and I can do that too. And the greatest thing for me is when I hear stories of like a parent will tweet me or DM me and say, I heard this bang and I ran upstairs to my kid's room and they were doing one of your workouts in their bedroom. And that is like, wonderful because it's off their own back. They know that they're going to feel happier doing it. And it's like them making a decision for themselves to go and exercise and let off some tension and release some stress. And that for me is an amazing thing. And if we can do that, as many times as possible, then you're going to really change the culture of health and fitness within that

family, I think. But also you talk about mental health and you're very, very open about how you feel. Were you always like that? I think, yeah, when I look at me and my brother, my older brother, Nikki, like, he's quite introvert and he holds his feelings, quite, he bottles up things, I think. Whereas me, I remember being a kid, I would say exactly what I was thinking. I would always kind of communicate. And I do think when I look back, I was definitely a used exercise and fitness as a, probably as my therapy.

I wasn't having counselling as a kid, but I was quite angry. times you know about my situation my dad you know with a drug addiction but i think for me like playing sport doing hobbies like running to school exercise and being part of the team like that all gave me something positive to focus on um so yeah definitely i think it changed my life i think health and fitness from a very young from a very young age really changed the direction of my life i think it can for so many people you just mentioned your dad and your brother of course you put on on um socials about going biking with your dad and your brother and what an incredible trip i love you love that so i've got an older brother called nicky who he's like my he's like my best friend we work

together he's like my right hand man if you like behind the scenes of the body coat he's the one that you said is in your ears for for reading all the tweets yeah he's giving me all the shouts and things so nicky's like really amazing he works with me and i love him to death and i've got my little brother george who's 10 years younger than me and so nicky's not into the motorbikes i've tried to get him into it but my dad passed his test george passed his test so i got us all a bike we've got three motorbikes which I keep at my house and we meet up, you know, once, maybe once every couple of weeks. We do a little local, maybe we go around sort of Richmond and Windsor

or we go to Brighton and things like that. But we did a really amazing trip. We went to the Scottish Highlands together on this big trip, like, you know, five days. And it was, it's so wonderful to have something in common where we can really kind of be out together and do something that we all love. And it's quite a therapeutic riding a motorcycle because you're not talking, you haven't got your phone on, you're not plugged into anything. And it's quite a relaxing experience.

So yeah, I love it. I really like that we've got some that we can all do. And also, like, till we're really old, you know, you can ride a motorbike well into your 60s or 70s or even older. So it's nice and that we can do that in years to come. And you've got a good relationship now with your dad. Yeah, you know, my dad's clean today. The most important thing about addiction is that it's always there. You know, he's still in therapy.

He still goes to NA meetings and it's a big part of his life. But he's clean today and that's the most important thing. And I'm one of these people that I don't look back with resentment or anger. I really am about today. Like, I'm all about the relationship today. And, you know, the fact that I went through that as a kid and my dad did as a teenage and as a young man, like, he's an amazing, amazing person to be around now. And he's got so much advice and I've learned so much. And it's changed also my ability to be a parent.

Like, I've learned through those mistakes. And now I can implement, you know, my own way of parenting and be present and be really there for my kids and Rose as well. How are in Diomali? They must find this all extraordinary. They must, it's normal for them, isn't it, for a camera to be on and daddy to be talking. to somebody else on the camera. Yeah, I'm torn between like wanting to, you know, share everything. And then I have days where I just don't want to share anything and I want to keep it really

private. But, you know, they're such a big part of my life. It's really difficult because I love them so much. They're with me all the time. I'm at home. So Indy knows that I'm going to go upstairs to fill my workout. She knows I'm going to exercise. But she comes up and she'll take part and she copies me.

And I just, I believe that I'm role modelling. I believe that every time I do a workout, she sees me sweating and she's me laughing. That's a really important thing for her to see because if you're a young person, you don't see anyone around you exercising or getting any mental health benefits from movement, then it's hard for them to think, well, why should I do it? So I think that the earlier we can demonstrate exercise

and do it together as a family, the better, you know, the greater chance you've got of those children becoming active, teenagers and adults, I believe. These podcasts, we ask every single person, and very often it's the craziest things, but I always ask people what makes them laugh. What makes you laugh? It has to be now more than ever like my kids, you know, like seeing, seeing Indy, like, she's really, her vocabulary like baffles me how much she speaks.

She's only two, but she speaks so well, so she'll say the funniest things and she pulls this really funny face. She can just do it on demand. It cracks me up. But, you know, it's just the thing that I look at them and I see like mini-meas. I see like Indy and Marley and me in the way they love their food. And Indies like her happiest when she's eating. So she's always asking for food. And I just think that's hilarious because I think when I was a kid, I was the same.

I'd get him from school. I'd eat everything I could. and you know, Rosie loves her food. So when you realize how much your children are you, like that for me is the most wonderful and also funny experience to see. No, you said when you were at school, that you were the clown

and you like to make people laugh. What would you do? I was just a bit of a plonker. Like, you know, I wasn't a, I wasn't a mean kid or a nasty kid, but I was just one of those kids that would always be trying to crack jokes, always, you know, just disrupting and being silly

and annoying people and, you know, in a kind of just because I couldn't focus, mate, I probably had ADHD to something. extent because I couldn't focus on anything like maths and English and science, but when it was things like practical things like, you know, technology or textiles or cooking, you know, even things like cooking, we've done that. I loved it. I got my hands, you know, I got involved and PE was the same. But yeah, I was just very distracted and couldn't seem to focus much on things. What do your friend, have you got any friends from those days that are still friends with you

now, people that you're at school with? Yeah, I've still got a few friends, you know, like friends in different industries and we speak to them, we come across each other and then again. And, yeah like especially with Facebook obviously for birthdays and things and yeah like everyone thinks it's hilarious they think they think it's funny that I'm obviously like doing TV and then when you get an MBA it's like wow this is it's mad because I'm just a boy from Epsom you know I grew up in a council state and went to a pretty rough school but you know I've done well because I've worked hard so I think everyone's quite supportive and positive when they see me but what do they say I mean are you just still Joe that they knew at

school or do they you know how do they feel because it's such a such a different world now. Well, I think people assume that you like from a distance you might be different or you might have changed or your ego may have changed because you've got a bigger house and whatnot. But I know instinctively that I haven't changed. I'm still the same person. My mom and dad always say that it's so proud that I haven't let the fame and success, you know, affect me, affect my personality or my ego. And that's just natural. That's not effort for me. Like I'm just, I am who I am. So, you know, I'm very generous with my friends. Like I really enjoy when we can, you know, going for nice meals and on holiday together.

Like, I love sharing my success for me. Like, I cannot be successful over here doing loads of cool stuff and not having my friends with me. Like, that actually makes me unhappy. So the more I bring people together, so I'm always the one that, you know, we'll do the barbecues and I'll do Christmas, I'll do Christmas like dinners or we'll get together for, you know, like summertime things, whatever it may be, like picnics and stuff. And I love, I love, and I've always been that glue that pulled my friends back together.

Like, they know that's me. And I used to get upset by the fact that I thought, if we, if we, if I didn't arrange these dinners and arrange these things, then we'd never get together, but I've just become that person. They know that every few weeks, they're going to get a text, and I'm going to say, right, boys, we're going for dinner,

or let's have the kids round and have a little barbecue. So that's just the role that I am, you know, that I've always had, really. Sounds like you were born at some older age, and I mean that as a compliment, like a really sort of wise head on young shoulders. Well, you think that now, but when I was younger,

you would just think, you would have just thought he's going to end up in prison, on drugs, he's too crazy he's not yeah because all of them you know I was from that background where people were going to the park and were you know smoking weed and dabbling in certain things and getting arrested for like little petty crimes like this is the area that I grew up in so

the fact that I brought that I completely I was so scared of drugs and all that sort of stuff because I'd seen the destruction it had made of my family that me and my brother we just never went near it and I think my mum really taught us the value of respect and you know like we we had boundaries we had to be home at 10 o'clock on a Friday a night. We weren't allowed out till 1 o'clock, 2 o'clock in the morning where some of my friends

would be out. Their parents just let them do what they want. And I think when you've got those boundaries in place, it definitely keeps you, you know, keeps you on the straight and narrow, I think, for a lot of times for me, for sure. I just, what I'm so fascinated by you is your enthusiasm for life. And you and I are both, you know, people always accuse me of being too hyper and enjoying life too much, but you never apologise. And I don't want to apologize. We should just, And if, you know, what you do is you spread the enjoyment of being alive, don't you? That's what you're about. If you've got a flame inside, if you've got this little spark of energy, like, you should always share that. You should always be there to like use that because some people go through life not really naturally.

It's not in their DNA to be like they're, you know, some people are by default a little bit pessimistic, a little bit down, a little bit kind of, oh, I'm not bad, I'm all right, you know, whereas I'm like, I'm like, I'm like tigger. You know, there's tigger or, isn't it? I'm a tigger because I want to be positive. I think it's nice to be optimistic and it does rub off on people for sure. Like if I was someone who was always moaning and complaining about things, you know, I don't think I'd have, you know, an audience like I do because people love, they're drawn to like inspiring, motivational, uplifting people. And that's what I try to do with my videos, with my recipes. And I'm always trying to, yeah, give people a little bit of happiness. And for me, the best way and the quickest way is through like healthy food and exercise. It's, it's so powerful when you, when you take that life on and you adopt that lifestyle, we can all live such a healthier life and a happier life. Oh, more people should listen to you. I think you're absolutely spot on. So, you know, there you were as a young boy. You knew what you, you had an idea of what you wanted to do. Obviously, it's gone far beyond that.

But where do you go now with 80 million people watching you? 128 million views. Actually, I think it's even more now. Guinness World Record, MBE, you know, you'll be knighted. You'll be Sir Joe at some stage. Where do you go now? I feel just as ambitious as ever, as ever. And I think I really want to keep this, you know, this mission

around schools and young people. I feel like I've had amazing success with my cookbooks and, you know, my 90 day plan. But for me, when I started doing the kid stuff, when I started visiting schools and really having that impact on young people, I felt like that is, this is what I need to be doing. This is where I need to put my energy because children need love, they need attention, they need positive role models, they need encouragement and they need confidence. And that's something I'm really proud of. So I know now I can connect with six-year-olds and five-year-olds and also 75-year-olds. So I've got this ability to communicate and I now think, well, how can I reach more people?

What's the next step? And I suppose, you know, my dream is to really build on the P stuff, like trying to get every school across the UK doing a 20-minute workout or 15-minute body coach workout every day. And I think the power that would have on their children and the impact it would have would be huge. So I'd love to go back on the road and visit schools and, you know, experience, you know, firsthand the impact it's having.

Because for me, I love the YouTube views, but I also need the impact. I need to see real people and experience, like, contact because I like to communicate with people in real life as well. And so the minute I can, I'll be back on the road doing a UK tour visiting schools and, you know, just spreading that message of positivity and exercise and health and fitness. Can't you get the government to change or the schools to change that it has to be that they do 20 minutes, that every single school, every day has to do 20 minutes. I'm sure you can change the law.

You and Marcus, I want you and Marcus to do something together as well because I think the two of you could be so powerful, him with his food for the kids and helping kids out of poverty and you with keeping them moving. I think you two should do something together. But you could get the law changed. Well, I think it's amazing what he'd done. To be such a young person with such passion and drive to make that suck. Like what an impact he had is so well deserved.

And that NBA, you know, it's exactly what I was hoping he was going to get that. So well done to Marcus. For me, I don't need to actually speak to like the government and get things changed. It's just as long as the school, you know, each school I've realized has the ability to change their time table and to put in fitness and exercise. So as long as there's one person like an ambassador or, someone who really champions fitness within that school, they can make the impact themselves. So it's about, you know, getting teachers and heads to really see the benefits of it. And just, I'm sure they all saw a massive improvement in their children's health and their mindset

when they were doing the exercise and the P-W-Joe stuff. So hopefully they'll, you know, and I know a lot of schools are. They're still doing it. They do the YouTube ones. They jump in and do the sort of five-minute and the eight-minute workouts I've got on there. So although it would be great for it to be law, I don't want to spend 10 years in my life getting not back when I can just continue to make impact today. with YouTube and with digital and, you know, visiting schools

and doing as much as I can with that. And that's the other thing is you worked so hard and raising money for the NHS as well. I just feel that, like I'm going to say, again, I'm going to use the word generous. You're generous to a fault. Well, it felt like the right thing to do, you know. Basically, I was getting all these views, millions and millions of views.

And my brother said, like, you need to see what's happening with the ad sense. So you get obviously advertising revenue on the videos, right? Google give you like a little bit of advertising revenue per view. or whatever and it was such a big number i said i can't i can't it doesn't feel right i don't people to think that i've tried to do this to benefit financially it was never that intention so the minute i saw what's happening i said right let's donate this money to the n hs charities fund and it was going up we raised about 250 000 pounds from the youtube views and then my brother halfway through said why don't we do pea with joe t-shirt so we had this little logo designed and we

printed them out and it was like print on demand and we sold like 70 000 so all together we raised £580,000 for the charity, which is wonderful. And it was nice because it was like a community thing. I kept saying, the more views we get, the more T-shirts we sell, the more money we raise. And I really think that helped people have that emotional connection to come back and do more. So it was a really lovely thing. And I felt wonderful given, the day I transferred that money, I thought, what an amazing thing that I turned a YouTube stream into £580,000.

Oh, my word. That's a vast amount of money, Joe. I know. It's whopping. I kept growing. I was thinking, when's it going to end? When's it going to stop? But 18 weeks of views and all those T-shirts that got sold,

it really, it was incredible. But like I said, I didn't know we're going to raise that much money. I just thought it would be nice to sort of donate what we earned from the YouTube views. But yeah, I mean, good idea with the T-shirts, Nikki. Oh, I just love the way you are about your family as well. It's just so lovely. It is, I'm going to, and I'll always say it. I think I'll, I'm going to call you Sir Generous Joe.

Ah, that works. Oh, thank you. I can see it now. It works. So favourite dressing up outfit has to be dot dot dot what? Oh, I mean the favourite was probably the hottest and the most uncomfortable one was the WWF panda suit. They sent me the big panda suit with a huge furry head, massive head. You couldn't see through it.

And I'd done a full work at that. So when I look back, I'm like, what a plunker. But I did laugh. It really made people laugh, didn't it? And I'd done the Spider-Man, I was Superman. I ran out of Marvel heroes because I went through the whole collection. I had so many. Why don't you Scooby Doo?

Oh yeah, I was Scooby Doo. I was a frog. Yes. And I was buying them each week, so I was ordering them. I'm thinking, I need one more. Like, it will come to an end soon. I kept ordering them. And in the end, I was buying like three or four times.

I thought, I know I'm going to be doing this for weeks to come. So I ended up buying 18 fans dress outfits. Where are they now? Well, I gave a few to my mum because she wanted to like take them to if she ever has a party. But they're just in a cupboard. Oh, we see. Sorry, that's no. Stop.

I thought you meant. I gave a few to my mum because she wants to dress up as Scooby-Doo just on the Saturday night. She thought, why not? She loves a fancy dress. But the thing is, you know, they sweat. They're stink. I sweat so much. I don't know anyone that's going to want to wear them after I've worn them.

You should just, well, you can donate them to charity auction of the fancy dressed outfits. Can you imagine how much they'd raise? Oh, I'd feel terrible. They're honestly, they're so smelly because I just sweat in it, took it down and just put it in a bit, lay in a bag. I didn't clean them or anything, so they're probably really smelly. Oh, just will you do another one in the skis? Dooboo-Doo because that, I don't know why, I just, that one tickled me. It just made me love. You know, you're a complete joy. The first time I met you and we were having to do crazy stuff on a live TV show and throughout lockdown.

The most incredible thing that I can't get over is the minute I message you and I'm one in millions of people that knows you, but the minute I WhatsApp you, you reply instantly. You're only ever good and kind and may only ever goodness and kind of, you know, us follow you wherever you go because I think you are a blessing to this world Joe and my love to Rosie and to Indy and Mali and your brother who sounds amazing and your mum and dad as well. Thank you so much Gabby. You've always been so supportive and I really appreciate all the interviews you've done over the past because it's helped, you know, especially with the lockdown stuff. You help me get more people taking part as well. So for everyone that helped and everyone that took part, thank you for making it so special. And I, you know, I also thank everyone

who nominated me for the MBE because what a wonderful thing to receive. Oh, it's fantastic. you my lovely and I'll speak to you again very soon. Thanks for doing this. Thank you so much. Have a lovely day. See you soon. That Gabby Rawlsing podcast is proudly produced by Cameo Productions. Music by Beth McCari. Please press the subscribe button and it will come straight to your phone on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you choose to listen. Also please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts.