That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - John Gregory Smith

Episode Date: April 21, 2026

Chef and content creator, John Gregory Smith, joins Gaby Roslin for a natter about food and feasting and all things joy! John talks about his brilliant career, his love of food, the amazing places across the world where he has cooked and why he loves sharing recipes and tips. He also natters about new book - The Greatest Traybake Book Ever - which is full of really easy and delicious recipes.

JGS, I can't call you, John Gregory Smith, because you're JGS. That's how you were introduced to me. At last, you're on the podcast. Literally, I do you know what? I just got the tube here and I've been sitting the whole way just so excited. We've been trying to do this for ages. Oh, my word. But listen, I've been, Gabs is a very busy woman, so I feel very lucky to be here.

That's ridiculous. So we've known each other a very long time. We haven't known each other at a time. And when you were first introduced to me by a mutual friend. Yes. This mutual friend said this is JGS. Yes. Because none of my friends or family ever call me John or John Gregory Smith.

It's such an awfully long, clunky name. So it's either JGS or what do my family. My family call me Skinner from... It's very weird. Explain. So Principal Skinner was a character in The Simpsons. Oh, yes. There was one episode and I almost can't remember it now, but it was so long ago that my brother and sisters started calling it to me. But then their kids started calling it to me. And some of my cousins kids when they were little didn't know who John

was, they just knew me as Skinner. And then actually would I have another one. My mum and my sister and my aunties will call me boo. Because I didn't have a name for a couple of months when I was little. My parents couldn't decide. But you know, like babies love boo. So that was my nickname. Oh, I love that one.

I'm not stuck. That's what Chris Evans' baby, one of Chris Evans' prince is called boo. It's a very cute nickname. I think quite a few people have a bit of it's like. But so if they didn't name you for a couple of months, what was said, what did it say on your birth certificate? Well, I do have one. How quickly do you have to do that?

quite quickly. Well then that's a rumor that my mum told me. So my mum and me are quite similar in that we talk a lot. So if I'm over talking, you can just shut me up. But my partner and my dad will often say if we're talking, we'll have to say to them, they'll correct us and we'll have to say, don't know the truth, getting them over good stories. So now my mum said that. It probably was like two days. Oh, I love that. Okay. So but on morning live, they call you John. Yes. Nobody calls me JGS on there, apart from you. Me. I quite like that you do.

I can't. It rolls off the tongue better. Tong? Tong. Tong. Rows off the Tong better. No, because lovely producer Joe, I introduce you Tim and JGS. I can't call you. Don't worry about it. I love it. Even on morning live, I always say, oh, JGF. Oh, and we do have fun on morning. We do. We do. We absolutely do. The thing about you and take this, okay, you are a fantastic. fantastic, Cook.

But you're also so much energy and full of life and you are a joy spreader. And this is reasons to be joyful. And we get people who spread the joy and have got lovely stories to share. I want to know how, will you like this when you were boo when you were little? What, sort of the same character? Yeah, he's so positive. Yeah, I think. So my mum is literally like the most positive person.

You've always said that. You keep saying I'm going to meet your mum. I still haven't met her. She would literally be obsessed with you. She's so cool and she's so lovely and she's so positive and I think that really got distilled in me and my brother and sister

so we've sort of just always had that positive energy and when I was at school and same with my brother and sister actually all our friends used to always used to hang out at our house it was always the kind of the house that you could go back to you very cool what a compliment to your parents

very very cool and all the friends would always say that if you're ever feeling down just go and sit with my mum for 10 minutes because she'll just be like darling you look fabulous The jumper's fabulous. What have you done with your maker?

So your ego just goes like, oh my God, this is amazing. Should we get her on the phone? What, right now? Yeah, we've done it before. She might be at, so she might be at the Royal Opera House. Of course. Well, so she's volunteered there since I was like a teenager. She's 79 and she's still a volunteer and she's, she literally loves it.

So I can try. We can try. Well, when do we do that after? Actually, what time does she usually go there? Well, I don't know. She put him, she's very into Instagram. She put a photo on Instagram earlier on of her, like that in the Royal Opera House. We will.

We'll give her a try. We'll give her a try. She's very rock style, my mum. She's, you know, it's quite hard to pin down. So what did she do then? She was, she basically was a, was a homemaker, a mother and the best of it ever to three kids. And then she started volunteering. I think I must have been about 14.

And she's done it ever since. So like once, so she's probably in there once a week. What does she do there? Thing? No, basically, as a volunteer, they do a lot of stuff in the days. They do a lot of rehearsals where you can go and see, you get cheaper tickets and you go and see the rehearsal. And there'll be a lady with a sash or a man with a sash showing you to your seats or like where the lues are, where the bars are. And then they also get a lot of school trips as well.

And again, that's what she does. Oh, how lovely. She loves it because she loves dancers and opera singers. But she's friends with all of them. So at lunch, she'll be with all of them. of those guys and taking selfies and sending them to us going like, oh my god, look, who I had lunch with. It's so cute.

Does she sing? Does Sal sing? I mean she... Sal? Oh, okay. Does Sal sing? If we have a family gathering, she will certainly sing. Yes, she will belt out.

What's the OAS song? So Sally can wait. She knows it's too late as I'm walking by. Shamping too and over? No. Yeah, no, it's, we're going to now call her and see if she'll sing for us. That's what we need to do. That's what she would be singing.

How lovely. So you were very, obviously, this, lovely background of positivity with your mom. Yeah. And so you put out positivity. But where did the, where did all of this come from? I mean, this new book, by the way, oh, your stuffed onions. That sounds euphemistic.

We'll get onto your stuffed onions later. But where did all the cooking come from? So I've literally, when I was very little, I had zero interested in anything apart from cooking and hanging out with my family, even as like a very young child. And my mum would often say that when she used to take me to her friend's house, you know, like she was going for coffee or whatever, I'd never want to play with the toys or the books. I'd be in the kitchen pulling out everything out of the cupboards.

No. Yeah, all the time. What food out of the covers or the plate? Everything. Boles, plates, sauce pans. And obviously, she thought it was quite cute. I think friends found it quite annoying. He just trashed it.

And then so I always had that. As long as I can ever remember, I've always cooked. And I remember, like, when we get babysitters, I would. I sort of like literally like seven or eight year old be like, I'll cook, I'll cook, don't worry. And then I realized because we've got quite a big family and we always meet up, there's always food involved whenever we meet and I'm the youngest.

And I always sort of was just sort of slightly sidelines. Everyone's a bit bigger than me and a bit older than me and you always sort of like the last to get whatever was there. And then I realize if I cook it, everyone would be like, you go first. And I just love that. And that definitely was, and this is probably when I was about 10 or 11. So I'd make like Chinese meals for everyone.

Sorry, you're at 10 and 11. Yeah, yeah. And I loved. So did you follow recipes? Yes. So I used to, do you remember? So Ken Hon. Yes.

Back in there used to have a moustache. And I used to literally love him. And Madda Jaffrey, do you remember? Yeah, I do. You know, her stuff was amazing. She had products as well. They both. Did she?

Yes, Madda Jaffrey had some products. I remember watching a series with her. I think we just got like cable. Do you remember cable? Mm-hmm. And, um, She did a series where she was in Panang, like just cooking on the street. And not only was I sort of spellbound by the food, just the background as well.

I just could not. You know, there were like tuk-tooks and rickshaws and spikes all going in the background. It's like, this is insane. So from a young age, I've always had it in me, this sort of not like just desperate to know more about what people eat and why they eat it. And I think then imparting that with someone, that sounds very functional. When you cook for people, it's a joy. You watch people eat and they are just so happy and I love that. I literally love it.

So from the age of 10 to now, just a couple of weeks. But to now, I mean, it is your life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cooking and food is your life. And you do it because you love it. But you've also found fame. I can't think of another word. I don't like the...

My mum thinks I'm huge. Well, you are. I don't like the word, the C words, I just think it's up. But, you know, you have a massive social media following and you do all the different TV shows and you've done them for years and radio shows and things. How did all that happen?

So that was all really by mistake. I love that, by mistake. No, it kind of was. No, but I love that. I left uni and I did classical studies, which is basically nothing and just loved it because I spent my entire, I had six hours a week and cooked.

That's what I did for a week. everyone. I'd make like pasta and homemade pasta, like really weird. You loved it. Yeah. Then left, couldn't get a job and then decided I like should I, should I become a chef? And I ended up getting two weeks work experience with Gordon Ramsey, which was just bizarre. Like off the cuff, my sister met him in a bar and he gave her his fax number and I faxed it and got a job. So I did two weeks in this restaurant and it was amazing, but I was like, this is not for me. And I didn't know anything about food back then. So I didn't realize that that was a very fine echelon of cooking. So I just assumed all cookings like that, I'm not, you know, chefing, that's not for me. This is insane. It was so weird,

Gabs. It was so cool. And then off the back of that, so I was like, well, I'm not going to become a chef. I don't want to learn French or Italian food. I'm interested in, like, more global cuisines. So you're going to have to go out and learn that on your own. So I started traveling a bit in my early 20s and you know, I was fascinated by like India and China, fascinated by the foods. And then I set up a brand to sell Indian, Chinese and Thai sources to supermarkets. And that was my way into food. And I ran that for like five years. But it was in my 20s.

Like I knew nothing. I mean, I knew that part of you. And I still think it's an incredible thing. As such a young age, go, okay, I'm just going to get a brand into supermarkets. I've got a real. hunger in me. If I forgive the pun, yeah. If I decide to do something, I will just will not take no for an answer. And I have a thing in my head where I'm like, look, if you come up with a plan, if you can look yourself in the eye in the mirror and go, it's not the worst idea ever. Because you know,

you can come up with something you can secretly know it's a bit rubbish, but you just kind of want, if you can look yourself in the eye and go, this is a really good idea. I just will not stop till it's done. And I will do anything it takes to kind of get that off the ground. And so even in your early 20s you were, I'm going to build a brand. Even as a teenager, I was the worst singer and guitarist ever and I wanted to be in a band. And I sort of set up a band and we did like, my mum's friend, my mom's dad's friend used to manage Robbie Williams. And he once came for dinner and I orchestrated like a showcase and basically like locked him

in my room playing in these terrible demo tapes. And this poor man was like, this is so awkward because I don't want to be mean, but at the same time, this is hell and I want to out of here. But I was very like, I want, that's the career I want. So I will do anything to get it. It didn't happen because it was absolutely awful. And he very politely said, I think you've got quite a lot of work to do with this. Oh, bless.

So I've always had that sort of drive to do stuff. And then that was my foray into food. And then it led into. Yeah, so the brand. So you had the brand. Had the brand. Five years. Ran that.

It was in Sainsbury's. The recession hit. This is so long ago. 2008. So 2009, I gave the brand up. It was too expensive. It just didn't work. And then I started traveling and learning about food.

And I literally took a year out because I'd worked so hard. On your own? You just got on a plane? On your own. I had a tiny bit of money left over from the brand. And I just was like, I'm out of here. And I went all around Southeast Asia and Australia and then India and then all around the sort of...

But again, on your own. You didn't meet up with... All on my own. And I just needed a bit of headspace. I think I spent so much time running... a food brand is not sexy and cool. I spent most of my time driving around the country going to different Sainsbury stores and saying, where are the products? Because they didn't know what they were. And you're getting them out and you're trying to teach people how to use them.

So it was very, and it was only me. There was no one else involved. Oh, my word. So it's quite exhausting. A lot of driving quite dull. So I just wanted a bit of time on my own. And I, you know, I ended up like really eking that out. Because I was like, actually, I've not had any fun for like five years. This is brilliant. And I actually came up when I was away, because I'd be staying in hostels. Everyone was younger than me. And they'd all be like, I'm my gap here. I've just finished uni or, you know, why are you here? And I just didn't really want to say like, oh, my career's taken a nose dive. My business has failed and I'm escaping all my problems. So after a while, I just was like, oh, I'm actually researching a cookery book. And I'm here to learn about food.

And it was just, it was completely made up. And but weirdly, the more I sort of said it, the more I kind of got, well, I quite like this idea. And I sort of started writing a book and that became my first cookbook, however long ago. It's very weird. And then how did that turn? So did you go and get yourself a publisher? Nothing in my career. Did you do it?

So I had an agent at the time who. You had an agent while you were traveling. When I had my old spice brand, one of my sister's friends was like, you'd be really cool on TV. And you're like young, you've got your own spice brand. you've traveled the world. That's a really nice package for TV. And I got introduced to a few TV companies and met some agents. And the bomb was.

I love the idea of TV. But you put me on camera back then. I did the one thing that nobody ever wants you to do on TV, which is go like a rabbit in the headlights. And I would freeze up and be terrified. So I was awful at it. But I really wanted to do it. So I had this agent who got me a couple of bits of work.

I was dreadful at it. And whilst I was away and the brand had gone, I basically said, well, I've got this book idea. Would you do it? And it was really weird. Everything else I've had to really push for. This, I just got an email back going, we think we've got you a deal if you come home.

What? We might be able to sort it for you. It was really weird. Everything happens for a reason. I believe that. And I think the industry has changed a lot now. I think, you know, this was pre kind of social media being massive. So I think it's a lot harder now.

a lot more competitive now. But I remember thinking, God, I can't believe that that's happened. And then I was like, then I got my advance, which was like, I think it was like 10 grand or whatever. And you've written books, haven't you? So you don't get all this money all at once and you're spitting it with agents. Yeah, no, I usually get it in three goes. And, but I just didn't understand any of this. So I just then went away for about another six months and kept every receipt in envelopes. And when I came back, I just gave it to them going, I've done the book, it's ready. here are all my expenses. And they were like, what?

That comes out of your advance. I didn't realize. So I think I'd blown all my advance on just traveling the world and having an amazing time. But, you know, I went literally everywhere, regret nothing, and it was amazing. Favorite place? I think on that trip, it was probably going to northern India. So I went, I flew into Delhi and stayed with my sister's friend's dad in his house, which was a beautiful house in East Delhi.

And then I met one of her friends at like a party. And I said that I was interested in going up to the Wager border, which is the border with Pakistan. And I wanted to go and see the Golden Temple, which is like the big, big Sikh temple. And she said, oh, my granddad's got a house, and go and stay. So I went and stayed with her grandmother's house.

And it was quite weird actually because he passed away, but the house just was there with staff. They were all so bored. So I sort of turned up. And all I just started up. Did she know that? She said go and stay with her grandfather. Yeah, yeah. She didn't mention this to me. So when I got there, it was just there was something a bit off and I couldn't quite put my finger on it.

And then I realised after being there for a few days that he had passed away. And the house was just sort of there with the staff. And they were cooking for me, which was like amazing food. And but then I went to go, I went to the golden temple. This is like an extraordinary movie. The whole thing was so surreal. And then I went to the Golden Temple, which was, it's so beautiful. It's a big white marble temple complex on the side of quite a big.

dusty town called Amritsa. And when you go into it, it's more beautiful than anything you've ever seen, like pristine, I've heard, beautiful pools, and then one huge golden temple sort of almost suspended on one of the pools. And every day, millions of people go to worship, and then they put this book, the holy book, is brought out every day and put to bed every day. And they also have a kitchen there called The Langer, and it's a free kitchen. And I think that one, they serve something. something like 60,000 meals a day.

It's open 24 hours a day. Anyone can go and eat there for free. 60,000. Yeah, if not more. It could be more. The way it works is you go and you go on your pilgrimage, the temple, you see the temple and you worship. You go and eat your meal and you sit on the floor and it's like thousands of rows of

people eating. And then you go and do a little bit of time in one of the kitchens to help it run. Oh, how wonderful. Oh, so you did that. Yeah. And I was there for two days, mainly. in the kitchens. Oh my word. But I didn't know anyone. I'd read an article about it in the newspaper and just turned up and I was just sort of sitting there quite awkwardly and there was like a group of

women podding peas and I just sat with them and joined them and they were all like stare at me like, what is he, why is he here? And then I remember like one guy asked me like and I said, oh, I'm a chef and he was like, but you weren't though. It's just easy to sort of explain. No, but I just meant I'm not saying, oh, you liar, but you weren't actually officially a chef. You were doing a book. But he got what I said, he was like, oh, can you chop? And I was like, yeah, and he said, oh, we need help on the chopping section. But in India, the way they chop is really different.

It's like with a smaller life towards you. And I can't chop like that. So I had to sort of set up a little, like I've got some, literally some wood and some trays and set up a little station so I could chop, like how I chop, which they all just found hilarious. But then they took me to like the bread station where the current And the curries are made in vats about this big, with oars to stir them. And it was just...

How incredible, what an experience. It was gold dust. Because the whole time I just felt I'm so lucky to be seeing this. Yeah, real privilege. And to be taught how this place works. And then, I think on the last night I was there, because I'd been there for two days, one of the guys in the kitchen said,

come and meet us at this gate. And they took me into the temple complex to watch the book go to bed, which is almost impossible to get into because there's so many people around it. So it was just, it was magical. I love it. Like, I love the feeling of being plonked in the middle of nowhere to just see life. Like, what's going on? So TV-wise, I mean, your life actually, that should be a, you should do it.

I mean, because, so where did, okay, that's the first cookery book and there's amazing travels. But then to get to where to hear and all the different TV shows. done in between. How did that all happen? How did that all sort of... So I guess... Unravel, but it's not unravel. How did it grow? No, it did unravel. I think totally... So I then spent quite a long time staying in my lane as a writer and was really happy. So I had cookbooks. And they were doing really well. I mean, they were doing... They were coffee table books. They were doing all right.

Yes, but from nowhere. From nowhere. And I would do bits and pieces on TV, and I was still a bit terrified of it. And then I would write quite a lot for new. about food or food and travel. And I was very happy with it. It's quite a sort of strange life because you're away all the time. But I think because I'd been so chained to doing my brand beforehand, watching all my friends kind of get on with their life and I hadn't, that I just felt very free and very, like it felt like I had zero responsibilities.

I could pay my bills and I could travel and I was happy. Were you still living at home then? So no, I actually moved home with my mum, dad when I launched my brand. my brand. So I was living, I was very grown up when I was in my, like I literally left union, moved out, and then I moved back. Yeah. I didn't have the money. Yeah. And then I moved back out and then I moved back in. And funny enough, the first time I moved home, my sister was living in America and she called me up and went, I've got a surprise. And I was like, what? We're all moving back as well. So we used to call it the commune because I was living there.

Love me. My mom, dad, my sister, her husband, her kids. I love it. I love it. My, my My kids are, I love it. I love it. I'd say that was some of my happiest times because we get on very, very, very well. So knowing it was only for a small time as well, because I think by the end, we did all need a bit of space by the end, but it was just hilarious. And I got such a close bond with my sister's kids. That's so lovely.

So lovely. Very lovely. So the books are happening, bits of telly are happening and then social media really cut through. Yeah, so that was super weird gab. So I, during COVID, I lost all my work because it was always. It was travel writing mainly, or food and travel. But we met, so what year did we meet? It was pre-COVID.

It was pre-COVID, yeah. I reckon it was about 10 years ago. So I had started doing more TV by then. Yeah, but it was about 10 years ago, I think. Yeah. And so I started, basically, I did a TV show, and somebody said to me, you've just, I was like, I'm freaking out. They were like, why are you so worried?

And I was like, because I'm really worried that I'll say the wrong thing. And I've rehearsed in my head what I need to say, and I've got all these, like, top tip. And they said, No one cares, just have fun. And I was like, are you short? And I remember it was my old agent. And she said, literally, you know your stuff.

No one cares, just have fun. So I remember doing the show. It was like Sunday brunch. And for the first I'm thinking, do you know what? I'm not going to do all the top tips and facts that I've got in my head. I'm just going to have a laugh. And it all rolled out. And it was the first time that I was just like, oh my God, I love it.

And it changed everything. So I was like, I literally love it. And you realize that a lot of TV is your, what I was trying so hard to do was connect with the people in the studio next me, which is obviously really key. You're trying to connect with an audience. It's not about those people. It's the one person who's watching you or the one person that's listening. And not people, it's just that one person. And they want to see you having a conversation.

For what I do anyway, which is cookery, having a laugh, showing you something fun, telling you a little bit about it, not freaking out over like the smallest, weirdest, because they didn't care. So I started doing all that. COVID hit. I moved in with my sister because I was living on my own. I was like, I can't be on my own. I moved in with her on that Monday when Bojo said, you know, we're going to shut the country down for two weeks. And I was there for what, like six months or something. And my, I didn't have any work.

And then I started posting videos on Instagram. And they were, I mean, they were awful because I didn't know how to really use, do video. So I was, I'm quite a perfectionist, so I knew they were awful. No, really? Yeah, yeah, massively. And so I'd get everyone involved, my sister's kids involved, and everyone was involved making these videos. Plus, you couldn't really get any ingredient.

So they were all pretty gross as well. It was fairly limited. And then Instagram suddenly introduced a new thing called Reels, which is they still have now, which is short form video content, and that changed everything for me. Because I was like, actually, I can make a really fun video in 15 seconds. I have a very short attention span, so I love. love fast and it just changed. My whole life, my whole career changed. And so that was in 2020,

I posted the first one. So that's five, six, six years ago. And I now have a massive online audience. And it gives you permission to do what you want. I was able to like do a mainstream book with Amy Oliver's publisher. The greatest tray bake cookbook ever. But it is. Well, I thought if I call it that, then it makes it true. No, but it is. And I've got to find it again. The stuffed mushrooms. Where are the stuffed mushrooms?

Do you mean the, so what Gams is referring to is she likes, it's an Iraqi, it's like a Jewish Iraqi dish of stuffed onions that you. I just say, did I say mushrooms? I said mushrooms. No, I meant onions. They're in the slow section at the back. And you cook them, they're stuffed with rice and herbs and spices. But it's so easy.

Very easy. I'm really tasty. Cook them slow. And the onions go. literally like melty and caramelised and gorgeous. They're really nice. Some of them I didn't know what, I didn't know what some of the things were. What were like?

So instead of mince beef, I used vegan mince. Yeah, nice. But I didn't know what, I don't even know how to say it. Baharat. Baharat. So Baharat is an Arabic word which actually just means spice. But in the UK we have a spice mix called Baharat and it's like a blend of woody spices. So it's quite kind of Christmasy and lots of cinnamon, lots of nutmeg cloves.

I have to say, I just put, I put chili. Yeah. If that was all right. What's nice about that spice and I love ingredients like that is because it's got like 10 or 12 things in, you only need the one. All the supermarkets sell it now. It's not expensive. It's not.

The pomegranate molasses, which we were talking about in my British earlier. It's a joke. Yeah, I love it. But also, it didn't take any time to prepare. No, it's very quick to prepare and then you just leave it to cook. So that's in the slow food section. Slow section. Yeah, but so, and the other thing is, let's be, oh, what have you seen now?

Sticky obogee. Yeah, that's so nice. So it's sticky gotha-jong obejeans. Oh, and again, you just, you know, you just let them do their thing in the oven and they just, they soften and they're like little sponges. You just do a rumble? Oh, that's really embarrassing my stomach. So I've learned now, because if I do anything with work where I'm going to be talking quite a lot about food, I have to always eat beforehand. Otherwise, I get that huge.

Crispy lentils. How do I make a crispy lentil? So nice. Do you know what? This book, but also, here's the thing about what's so good about this book is that it's really easy. And it makes me feel like I'm being really clever. But also, it's just one trade. That's it.

It's dumb. So the whole point of this book was social media had changed my career. He had given me permission to kind of go into more places than I was. Really, I was sort of mainly known for doing like food with the Middle Eastern twist. and then social media allowed me to kind of branch out. And this book was because people just loved anything like one pot, one dish, oven, you know, quick and easy, quick and easy is what people like. And so that was the premise of the whole book. But you don't have to have too much fuss.

I don't want to fuss. I love the flavor. I love anything savoury. I mean, you know me well enough to know that. I don't really like sweet things. But I love savoury. Yeah. And I love it when there's layers of taste.

And I think anything that's, I think you can use your oven. to your advantage. So the whole point of this is everything cooked in one tray, lots of layers of flavour. So I will say that some of the dishes are everything in in the oven, job done. And then others are you do have to layer it up. So you might put something in for 10 minutes,

take it out, add something else and back in so that you get those lovely layers. Oh, it's done again. Adam, could you hear my stomach? You could, you could. Oh, that's really embarrassing. Just a gentle rumble. Okay. Now on my radio.

That sounded more like a pirate. Who are? Oh, sides and d. You'll like that. I love all that. You all like that. Loaded sweet potato nachos. So I've done this as well.

They're so nice. I made them. We had a fun night in on Friday and had a movie night and I made them. Oh, thanks for the invite. Thanks. Yeah, thanks. No, I've made these. They're nice.

I've made these at home as well. I love this cookbook. Oh, thank you. But you get, as you said, it's very interesting that you get so much joy out of other people eating and food. But what, so you get the joy from that. But what gives you joy? I will ask you in a minute to what you've brought in. But I get that you give all the time.

Do you ever let anybody give back to you? I mean, literally, probably the happiest. So I've been with my partner now nearly five years, and we're engaged, which is incredible. And we finally got a date in September, which is going to be so nice. Are you doing the full thing? No, we're going to do very low-key,

so we're going to go to- You're not going to do the full? Registry office. You're not cooking. Absolutely not. Good. Gosh, no, no, no. But that, having like a private life, like a really rich private life really makes me happy.

Because our work is quite weird. It's quite full on. It's quite relentless. There's always a lot of people involved. And you have to have a good, stable family life, I think. Would you agree with that? Oh, totally. But also keeping your private life, private.

Yeah. Because it's just that's what it is. It's your private life. And I think for me, the happiest, if I'm really honest, is being. at the table with all my family there, that makes me so happy the thought of it, because we have such a laugh together. We were all together on Saturday. It was my brother-in-law's 50th, and we went to the pub in Chiswick, and they'd hired a little side room so that no one had to cook, and there were like 20 of us. So it was lovely. And we all had a big roast, so nice, and then went back to theirs for a

kitchen disco afterwards, and it was just perfect. You cannot get better. That sounds to me like the perfect, perfect day. So looking at what else, I mean, what else do you want to do? Because you are ambitious and you say it. And that's, I mean, I'm the same. You know, hopes, dreams, ambitions. It's not a dirty thing to say that you're ambitious.

And it's funny actually because in our industry, maybe a little bit less so now, but certainly a few years ago, it was considered not the done thing to say, I want this or I'm going to push for this. And I think people confuse ambition with you being pestering them or being annoying. Ruthless and you're not ruthless. You're so polite. Yeah. I've never ever.

My stomach did it again. This is really embarrassing. So is onions. Oh my word. It's because I'm looking at the picture. I'm going to turn it upside down. There's more there. There's more there.

There's all the pictures. You're so polite and you're so lovely. It doesn't have to be ruthless. You don't have to be horridless. horrible, you actually have ambition and dreams. There's a way to ask for something. And I think if you ask something in the right way, there's, I don't see any problem with doing that.

And if you get, although I said I don't really take no's as an answer, but when you get a no, you've got to know, okay, that's a no from them. I've got to have to move on next. If you keep going, then yes, that is annoying. Yes. But there's nothing wrong. If a door closes, somebody told me this recently and I've used it. I think it's great.

If a door closes, you can just climb. I'm in round the window. Oh my God. I think I'm the king of pivoting because I'm not afraid to try something. Yeah. And so I think at the moment, where I'm at my life at the moment, I feel like I've got a really lovely base at the moment. So social media has just changed my life and it's amazing.

That's so good. And I actually love doing it. It can be a bit lonely sometimes because you're just on your own with a camera. But I love the creative. I love coming up with the recipes and then I get really excited when I film them if I know that I've nailed that intro. I love it. I love the ones you do with people and you very kindly says I can do it.

very kindly says I can come and play. That's fun. Yeah, that's really fun. But, but, and I really enjoy that because you're really good with people and then you need more of that. I really like that. So that's my plan is I feel like that that base is there. What I would like is to build on it and do something that's not just me. And whether that's like a new YouTube show or a podcast.

And funnily enough, when I talk about all of this, I love anything 90s. So I was born in 81, 90s when I was a teenager. and I always referenced the Big Breakfast because there was something about that show it was so fun and so rock and roll. TV's missing. And so chaotic. And it was a bit naughty, but it never crossed the line.

Safe naughty. Oh, you could leave your children in front of us or your grandparents and it's no. So I always referenced that. Whenever I talk to someone, I'm always like my dream would be to do something with people where it's that sort of vibe where it feels very cheeky and very fun

but it's still safe. It's still, naughty doesn't need to be like insane. It doesn't. And also I'm too old for that now. I'll leave that. Of course it doesn't. I love that.

I have an idea for you. I'll say it's like for it. And then also I love broadcast. There's something about, we were talking about this earlier on, especially with live TV. I don't know why, I love that slight risk element

that something can go wrong. Oh, I love it when it goes wrong. I was about to say the same. I absolutely love it when it goes wrong. You just got a riff on it. And generally, that is probably the most interesting for viewers. Because if everything just runs really smoothly, you watch a great show, job done. When you see something go a little bit wrong and everyone just having a laugh about it and

trying to move around it. Trust me, somebody who's been in television for 2,500 years, there is nothing I love more than live television and live radio. And you just go without a script, you just go. Yeah, roll with it. And you roll with the punches. And I think there's very fun about that. And that feeling in yourself.

as well, where you feel really confident in yourself that if it all goes wrong, you're going to be fine and you're going to be able to deal with it. And I think that's a really fun feeling. So I've got an idea for you. I've got an idea for you. I'm excited. Oh, she's so good, Gab. So, right, we always ask all of our guests to bring along or to share something that brings them huge joy because you are a reason to be joyful. So we like to know what that thing is. So I have this. So I got engaged a few years ago and my partner did so well. So we've booked a weekend away in Venice. I actually booked it because I was like,

I love a bargain. And I was looking at flights and it was like November where it was just, that's like the worst time to go to Venice. It's raining. And I was like, oh my good, look, we can get flights for literally like 50 quid return. Done. We booked them off we went. And on the second night, we were walking back a little bit sotl from a very gorgeous little tritora and he, God damn, got down, got down on one knee on a canal bridge in Venice with a box and swung around and asked me to marry him.

And it was so weird. What felt probably was only a few seconds, it felt like just hours. I was just taking everything in. And then he did actually go, and say something. And obviously I said yes, but he gave me this because I don't wear rings. So one side is like a very sweet, I am yours forever, I think it says. And then the other side is one tattoo. And the reference of that is, so I have a few tattoos.

They're all tiny. I did like a Phoebe from friends and got like the smallest ones. So I always said that I wanted four. So I want one more. He is very old-fashioned and hates tattoos. And he just thinks they're all gross and he hates all of mine. But he was like, as we're going to get married, this is my permission to you to go and get one final tattoo.

Is he going to get one? No, no, God, no. I still haven't got it. but I think I know what I want. So I know this is, so I have... You're not going to have food? No. So I have here, here.

I have... I wish you'd see it out of the face. It's like, oh no, he's going to go for a tray. No. Food. So I think what I might do is just get T-G-T-C-E. But again, like this big, somewhere like here where you can't see it. But what's I got to do with your husband?

No, it's because, it's nothing to do with him. No, you need to get to. something to do with him. Do you think? I didn't even think of that. Yes. Oh, please. That's why he said... Do you reckon? He said one tattoo. He keeps trying to get me to have one of these reviews. Sorry, please turn around and look at him. Is he?

No. You see, it's got to be about him. So you need... No. No. No. How about a lovely wedding ring? Or I could get his date of birth. His date of birth. Basically, I just want something really small that I can get here that no one will ever see. Why don't you just get a wedding ring tattooed? Because then it's in my hand forever. Yes.

No. Not that, that sounded awful. I want a ring on my hand forever. But I, yeah. Are you going to wear rings? We will, it will make him so happy. Yes, good. By this will be the first,

he'll be hearing that, so we will wear him. Good. All my tattoos are very, very, very hidden. Okay, so the one behind your right elbow is that where you want it? I'll get it here. Can you please have something to do with him? I think that's a very sweet idea, actually.

Why don't you intertwine? Can I ask his initial? I know, I know his initials. Are you happy to say them? Okay, so you could do J-S-G-R-S. No, J, yes. His initials intertwined with yours, beautifully, and intertwined one. Well, you're so creative.

I was just going to get like the name of this book on me. It's about the only thing I got an A in was art and drama. There you can tell that says a lot about me. There we go. So forget the name of your book. Yes. No, it's got to be about him. Well, yes, because then he can't try and get it removed.

No, then he'll say, what does that stand for between, You go, oh, the greatest trope. It'll be like, oh, it's all about your books. Yes. No, it has to be. No, his initials, your initials, beautifully done. Do you know what's funny? I'm a very loving person, but I know you are. I'm not like a very natural romantic.

So I will try and do things and I really think of things. I can tell. I think, let's be honest. No, let's be honest. Anyone that's listening now is going to think, he said one tattoo on the thing he gave you It means one tattoo about us. No, I'll put my greatest tray book.

No. You get a bowl of pasta tattooed on my back. No, it is going to have your interlocking names. Yes, that's much nicer. Yeah, I think he'd be happy with that. Should I come with you to get it done? Yes, oh, that'd be very rock and roll. There's a little place in Soho that I've had these two done.

And it's so weird. As I said, mine are very, very small and inoffensive. But there's something utterly thwarty, thrilling about getting a tattoo. It makes me feel like I'm like Keith Richards when I get it done. It just feels so naughty in rock and roll. I don't have any. Both my daughters do. They both have a tiny little elephant. The younger generation just get millions of tiny ones. They get an elephant on their arms. Are you happy with theirs? Yeah, yeah. How old were they when they got them? Just now. Okay. But I'm going, I've said when I'm

75, which is in, because I'm 33 every birthday. So that's 42 years. So that's 42 years. away, I'm going to get a little elephant to. My husband thinks he's Matt. He goes, what are you talking about? No, not until I'm very cute. Dame Judy Dent, she got a tattoo on her 80th. My sister got one recently here, which is really lovely, and she's 50 this year. And it's so nice.

What does it say? Does it say the greatest trade book ever? It does, actually. No, she got her daughter's called Daisy, and they went and got matching Daisy tattoos, which is very cute. She's 20. 19, 19. The way you've said it, I thought...

She's six. No. No, no, no. She's old. She's old. Oh, did you not say to Daisy? Why don't you get TGTCE? Do you know what's so funny? Now, you've said it. I'm thinking. Like, what was I thinking? Oh, but it just sounded so... This is why... this is again... James, you're about initials, okay? Yeah, but also I work on my own, so I need people to fact check a lot of the decisions that I make. Sometimes you can make decisions like, that's the one.

What's up me next time? You tell people and they're like, absolutely not. What's up me and just go, what do you think? No. I'm about you getting tattooed on my forehead. Yes or no? You know, I did run out of a tattoo parlour in... You ran out?

Yes, I've done it twice actually. Once was in San Francisco and I was, I'd chosen. I'd gone in and chosen. I was like some dreadful, like sort of symbol. And I can't remember where I was going to get it, but they sort of put you in a room. They stencil it on you and you go, yeah, that's the one I want. And I got that far.

And then they went off to go and get the machine and I just ran out. What was it? Was it the initials of another cookbook? No. And then I did the same thing on my 40th birthday. I thought I could say on my forehead. No, on my 40th birthday, I was on crutches and it was COVID and I was feeling quite miserable. And I went into a taxi because I couldn't walk into a tattoo pile that was down some stairs in Canada.

How are you allowed to do that in COVID? It was when you, everything was all masky and weird. So you go in, I had my mask on. And again, I was like, I want. a huge tattoo here and I want the word yeah I want the word happiness and even the tattoo guy was like are you really sure about this and I was like absolutely it's my 40th birthday today and this is what I want you do realize that if you saw it would say penis well there's all sorts wrong with it so he wrote it here and again off he went going at the machine and I was like I don't want this I'm out but the problem

this time was I was on crutches so I couldn't go anywhere very quickly so he kind of came in and was just watching me very very slowly making my way across this room and up some stairs. And I was going, I'm really sorry. I don't want. I think I'm just, I'm having a midlife crisis amount. If he said happiness, I would. It would just be. It would look awful. P-I-N-E. Yeah. I'm very glad I didn't get that. P-I-N-E-E. Yeah. So this is why I've really taken my time with the fourth. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, your initials. Uh, GGS, you are complete and utter joy. Thank you so much. And thank you for making my tummy rumble the whole time. It's really embarrassing but you are utter joy keep doing what you do. Joy personified here. You.