That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Josh Cuthbert

Episode Date: May 16, 2022

This week Gaby is joined by Union J singer and mental health advocate Josh Cuthbert. They sit down for an in-depth chat about the turbulent experience Josh went through in the early stages of his career and the journey he's taken to where he is today. He talks openly about his mental health and how important it is to recognise when you're struggling. And of course, he talks about the reunion everybody is waiting for...Union J and their grand return to London's Palladium on 28th May. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to that Gabby Rosen podcast, part of the Acast Creator Network. My guest this week is Josh Cuthbert, mental health advocate, member of Union J and all-round lovely guy. He talks extensively about X Factor being in Union J, breaking up with Union J and the reunion. And we talk about everything else too. He is so lovely. Please can I ask you a favour? Would you mind following and subscribing, please? By clicking the following.

or subscribe button. This is completely and utterly free, by the way. And you can also rate and review on Apple Podcasts, which is the purple app on your iPhone or iPad. Simply scroll down to the bottom of all of the episodes. I know there have been quite a few now. And you'll see the stars where you can tap and rate and also please write a review.

Thank you so much. Josh, you're a very special person. When I interviewed you on the radio show, I just knew I wanted to spend more time with you. And you want to make a difference, don't you? I do. I really do. I feel like I have a duty to use my following and influence to really spread awareness around important things that need talking about,

especially being a male and, you know, men things that need talking about that aren't spoken about often and enough. So, yeah. Did you think you were going to be like this? No. When you were 14 in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, Did you think this is what the arc of my life? No, I had no idea, no idea whatsoever.

I was just a young lad just, I went to so many auditions. Like my mum took me to audition after audition after audition. And I just wanted to sing. I just wanted to be on the stage. I just wanted to perform because when I was doing that, everything just went away, every worry, every stress. I just felt at home, if that makes sense. It makes complete sense to me.

I get that totally. So was it your, you? pushing your mum to take you or did your mom ever push you to go? My mum helped me. I needed pushing because I was very lacking in confidence. I was very insecure. I've always been an insecure boy, lad, whatever it is. But my mum was just brilliant.

She would take me to everything. She pushed me to do it, but not in like a pushy way. Yeah. It was in a, I can see Josh's ability. I can see his passion for it. He just needs pushing in the right direction. And hopefully things will work out. And it's crazy how much I have to thank her for.

She's just been the best. She's been brilliant. So it was before that. So you were in Chitty at 14. Chitty sounds like. I know. That's on my grandma calls it. But you were in Chitty Chitty Chitty, Bangang, at 14.

But before that, you say you were very self-conscious and shy and everything. So were people treating you at school differently? or was it just a personal thing of yours? I think because I loved my sports and I loved my footy, but then I also sung on the side. I would get a lot of kind of grief from boys at school. I get often picked on from the older lads and sort of, you know, teased. Why?

I don't know. Just because I guess singing and being a boy is different when you're at school. There's not many lads and actually not even just lads. There's not many people that can sing. So when you can, I guess people treat you differently. Maybe they're a bit jealous. I don't know what it is. But at the time, I'm not old enough and mature enough to say,

oh, they're just jealous. You know, I take it personally. So for me, it was, I kind of tried to keep the singing thing quiet at school. But as soon as I left school, I had stage school on weekends. I did stuff like that because that was my love. That was my passion. So, yeah, it's crazy where I am now and what I'm doing. So you went to stage school.

It was Sylvia Young. Sylvia Young every weekend. So I wanted to, my mum was, I think we were sort of talking about me going full time, but I was very keen to still do the normal school route and be normal and play my football and sports. That was kind of my, my passion as well. So I did that on the side and they set me up with auditions and I kind of just fitted them around school really.

And then when I got Chitty Chitty Chitty Bang, it was just lads would come up to me in the playground and start singing the song. Oh, would they? Yeah. I mean, it was, it was. by then I was kind of like whatever you know yeah who cares but um

it's the same as a football chant course just just a lot less laddie yeah a lot less laddie yeah but also what's so funny is my husband who's I'm passionate about musical theatre I love it love it love it love it too and my husband who doesn't but he likes football so when they're all singing I say surely that's musical thing no no no no no

no no no it's funny when I'm at football matches and I sing along to the songs I kind of put this, yeah, you're, you know, that kind of tone on because I can't sit there and sing them like I'm in a boy band. I mean, I would just get absolutely crucified. So it's funny because my mates are like, why are you putting on that voice? I'm like, because if I don't, people will just think I'm an attention-seeking idiot. That's why. Which team do you support?

Chelsea. Oh, so is my husband. Oh, we get on well then. So, blue is the colour. Blue is the colour. Football is the game. So you don't do. Blue.

Oh, go on. Oh, go on. So do, do the. Two versions. Okay. So if I would go, if I was singing it in a boy band, I'd go, Blue is the color, football is the... But then, you know, when I'm at a football game, it will be,

Blow is the color. Football. It's genuinely true. And I sometimes sit there and go, what are you doing, Josh? But I feel like everyone does that a little bit. They all put on a little bit of a voice. So really, we're all in theater, even at football games. Exactly.

That's what, tell all of them. Exactly. Tell all of. So, but you were going to be a goalkeeper. I was. I was going to sort of, I wanted to pursue football and I, you know, I loved my football. It was, it was my favorite thing. But there was something about singing and something about performing that just made me feel complete and made me feel at home. So that was the thing I pursued. And it's funny

how everything happens for a reason. It's, it worked out and I had some, you know, loads of nose, loads and loads and loads and loads of nose along the way. Um, the door was shot on me. dozens of times at dozens of auditions and I was actually in five bands before the band I was in, which is crazy considering I started Union J when I was 19. So you were in five before, and that's post chitty chitty bang bang. Yes. Because you were asked to be in the wanted. Yes, yes.

I'm heartbreaking the news recently, of course, about Tom Parker. I can't get my head around it. I only met him a couple of times when he was a friend of yours. I'm so sorry. I really am. It's just, it is heartbreaking. It's absolutely, he was just a true gentleman, a genuine, really great man. And we were really lucky to share the stage with him a few times.

And my band and The Wanted would often be at the same shows. Because we were around at the same time. And I spent lots of time with him backstage. We had the same management at the same time. So, you know, we were always in and around the one. wanted lads and Tom was just the most down to worth lovely guy and it's just heartbreaking to think that he has passed at only the age of 33 left a family left his wife two children it's just it's just awful but his parents as well yeah it is yeah and I love and thoughts to to his family

they really are but um this is we're talking about your life and uh and celebrating life and that's important as well um so you were you you you were auditioned for the wanted they wanted they wanted you but you were in other bands as well well yeah so when i was 14 just after chitty chitty bang bang i audition for x factor when they opened it up to 14 year olds so i was 14 i was the youngest ever guy to actually audition and get through to boot camp on x factor but it was too young like at the time i i just i just wanted to be a pop star i wanted to be a singer so i audition for x factor got through to the latter stages but that's it is 14 that's just too crazy i mean i felt Now I look back when Uni and Jane made it and I was 19.

I think that's too young. That's still too young. But 14. And then after that I kind of got I got approached by a manager that put me in a band. And then I moved to Ireland in a band. And then I signed to Universal Records in another band and 19 management. So it was just there were constant things going on. But I'm going to go back over this because it is, I know we've now said it three times that's so young.

But 14 and 15 are moving all over the place and being in a. pop band and having hopes and ambitions and suddenly becoming small celebrity because in you became big celebrities. So we're talking pre-Jing. That, that, I mean, that's so, how on earth you cope with that? No wonder you talk so openly about mental health, because how do you cope with all of that at such a young age? I don't know. You didn't? I didn't. And I think that's the reality of it. I didn't. And it's come to sort of, it's caught up with me in recent years, I think. It's, it's an industry that is so, like you know, is so ruthless, is so cutthroat. And it feels like I've been doing it for so long. But I'm only 15 years.

And I'm only 29. And I think that's the thing. I feel like a 50 year old in my head. I feel old. I feel kind of experienced and almost just ready to finish in a way. But I still have unfinished business as well that I want to sort of do. So there's a part of me that's like just, you know, I've got a wife now, just go on and just live a normal life. But then there's a big part of me that actually, like I said, I have unfinished business. I still want to have success. I still want to perform again and have those highs. I think it's really tough because as a 19 year old boy, when Union Jay burst onto the scene,

when it all finished six years ago, when we split up, I felt as if I peaked at the age of 19, 20, 2021. And it's a really difficult thing to process because you're having. you're constantly thinking, I'm never going to be as successful as that ever again. Whereas in life, you go to school and you're taught that as you get older, you know, you earn more money, you get more successful, you get promotions, etc, etc. Whereas in my line of work, it was like I was at the highest I could be. Well, it felt like that anyway, at the age of 19, 2020, 21.

So where do I go from here? Everything else is just going to constantly be a failure or nowhere near as good or not as successful. And that's really hard to process. That's very similar to a footballer though, actually, isn't it? Because you have your glory if you're chosen for one of the main teams at a young age and then what to do next. But when you were, so when X Factor happened again and Union J then happened and you all got put together, did you feel then that you were ready for it because you'd sort of done it before? Were you aware of what you were diving into?

It was the last, funnily enough, it was the last guy. at the industry. It was my last roll of the dice, as they say. So at 19. Yeah, I just felt. That was you saying. Yeah. It was not anybody else. That was me. That was me in my head. Oh gosh. Because at the time I just got myself a nine to five job. I was working in IT sales. Um, I didn't go to uni or anything like that. I didn't, to be honest, but I didn't really try at college. So I didn't have qualifications as such because my passion was music and I just put my heart and soul into that. And it was just it was the last roll of the dice so if union j and x factor didn't work out for me i probably would have just gone on and given up because i felt at this point so defeated and so

kind of i just thought it's just not meant to be but then luckily it worked out and you know we did x factor and we came we got to the final and it and it went really well and we signed to sony and it and it was brilliant but nothing can prepare you for that nothing can prepare you for that at all It's going from no one knowing who you are to all of a sudden 12 million people overnight knowing you because you're on a show. And watching a bit of you. Yeah.

Yeah. And you know, old friends, old school people would come up and start posting Facebook statuses about you trying to spread rumors, trying to do their sell stories. No. No. Yeah, it's brutal. You have friends trying to sell stories.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Loads of old schoolmates trying to say. Why? I don't know. I think like we said earlier, just jealousy maybe. Everybody wants a little bit of fame. Yeah. That's horrible.

What a horrible thing for a 19 year old then. So you've suddenly got this fame and adulation after having, as you say, so many knows. I wonder, I mean, I, you know, I've said many times I wanted, since the age of three, I wanted to be a TV presenter, not because of fame, just because I love television. And I have had many nose, but I think you have this burning something inside you that says, don't stop, don't stop. Oh, you are a legend. In my eyes. No, it's true. No, this is about you.

Not about me. One line then, you are a legend. Let's just leave it to that. But there are all the nose that you get. Somehow there's something in you that knows you can keep going, no matter how insecure or how shy or any of those things. And I'm delighted that you did. And I'm delighted you got to where you wanted to get to.

But then to have that adoration, you know, the adoration and everyone, oh, we love you, we love you and all these kids. But then having fun. friends selling stories. Yeah, it's really tough. I mean, you're having to cope with two really big things. Yep, you don't know who to trust. That's the scariest thing.

You don't know who to trust. And, I mean, we'll talk about it more, I'm sure. But even the people that got involved from a professional point of view in Union J, there were so many crooks. There were so many, you know, our accountant is in prison at the moment. Yeah, no, I know that. And there's various other things that I could. I could be here all day talking about how we've been screwed over.

But that's the scary thing because you put your trust in these people to look after you and have your best interests at heart because you are so young and you don't know the industry and you are babies in it and you just don't know, you know, you come into this world and you just hope that there's, you don't even, to be honest, I didn't even think it's possible that someone could screw us over. Well, why should you at 19? Exactly. I'm just enjoying, you're just enjoying the roller coaster, the ride, the journey.

you love singing and yeah it's constant there's constantly this doubt of who can I trust and that's quite hard that's really hard so do you trust now I'm better yeah I'm very lucky I've got a great group of friends at home great group of lads we've got and you know my wife who was originally from up north she's moved down with me now and she's part of my friendship group and I'm very lucky I have an amazing family and an amazing group of friends but it's taken a long time to forgive the industry I think to kind of be ready to give it another go do do you then how do do you feel then about the those sort of shows now in in hindsight it's always very easy in hindsight but you know how yeah how do you feel about those shows it's really difficult

because I have so much to thank X Factor 4, for example. I have, without that platform, I wouldn't be, have done and experience the things I've experienced. But I also feel like they have a bigger duty of care to even just going, you know, because when we came out of the show, we had 20 management companies pitched to us in a board, 20, in a board room in Sony. and we were there for two full days meeting manager after manager after manager, and we had to decide as a four who to choose. You're young lads. Exactly. We had no help.

We had no guidance. And let's be honest, out of those 20, there's going to be a few in there that people would probably go, I wouldn't go with them. They're a bit dodgy or, you know, they're not, they've not got the best reputation, but there was nothing like that. And I feel like maybe that's where X Factor could have helped us more,

maybe guided us a bit, giving us some advice, Because we haven't got no clue, absolutely no clue. But as a show, it's given me, like I said, an incredible platform. So it's a really, it's really hard for me to kind of weigh it up, really. Yeah, it's a funny one. I can understand that. But you're also very polite young man and you're very astute. I don't think there's anything.

I can imagine you're getting caught up in that tidal wave because it's an enormous tidal wave. And also when you've got people saying you're wonderful, of course you believe it. And you are a good person, but then you get, oh, you're wonderful, I love you. You get the girls and the guys all screaming and wanting an autograph and pictures. So all of that side on top of these people saying, hey, I'm going to make you a buck. Yeah, exactly. Stick with us. So then Union J existed with the management that you chose and all the people there.

and as you say, there were some shady characters, let's put it like that. How was that ride before you left? Amazing. But it was brilliant, but it was also just, it just feels like a blur now when I look back. I can't remember it. Really? I really can remember certain moments,

but we were so busy and just worked so hard. We were here there and everywhere for three years non-stop. Didn't get very little time, very, very little time off. No real kind of help with our mental health. And I think that was the toughest thing, because at the time I didn't know what mental health was, really. I didn't know. You know, there would be times where I'd ring up and make an excuse,

not wanting to come into work. But that was because I was anxious. Now I can understand that was because I was anxious. I had anxiety attacks at times and things like that. And how would they be manifest themselves for you? Just, I would just wake up and just be terrified to leave. the house, terrified to attack the day and get through the day, really. And I felt numb.

That was what I could describe. But it's crazy because that was what I had auditioned so many times to have this success and have this kind of, you know, these experiences. But it's so tough. It's so tough. And when you, when you, when we were on top and when we were doing really well and things are going great and we were selling really well, et cetera. it was brilliant.

But then the moment that things you start to sense they're not going as well, the people around you and manage, you know, there's nothing that they don't care anymore. They move on to the next act. They move on to the next person. That's brutal.

It is brutal. It's absolutely savage. But that's the industry. It's a money making, if you're making the money, they love you, in inverted commas, love you. But the moment they sense...

But you're real people. Exactly. Exactly. You know, if I... Because it's funny, because since, since doing this, there was a period in lockdown that I said, I want to be a manager. I want to manage acts. I want to manage people because I know how I would want to have been treated and managed. So hopefully I can use my experience to manage really well and actually

be a nice person, a real person and treat them like human beings. Because I just think that there's so few of those out there now. And it's a shame. But the experience of Union Jay was amazing, but also extremely damaging at the same time. And obviously with George going and then you leaving, was it, if you're honest with yourself, was it quite an easy? It was quite an easy leave then. Yeah, it was, I just knew it was right.

To be honest, we always say now, me and the boys, that we should have, when George left, we should have just called it a day then and sort of to take some time out, not necessarily called it a day, but just taking some time out to work out what we wanted to do. and there's always a time you know there's always a shelf life for bands but then there's always a time that I think you can come back and have some success again if you do it right and maybe we try to

carry on longer than we should have done as a three and we know that now but it did make you know I always think it's quite funny when I when I think about leaving and then there's just two of them I always imagine those two on stage like it just isn't it just can't work no but um it's just a couple of Yeah, it's like Anten Deck. It's just, yeah, it's just odd. But I had to make the decision for me. It wasn't making me happy anymore. And ultimately, in an industry where it's so cutthroat, you occasionally have to think of number one, because otherwise you just, you end up suffering as a result. So the moment that you said, right, I'm leaving. Yeah. What was the next day like? It was really, it was really brutal, actually. I had management at the solar management. at the time that were advising me through the whole thing. And I actually felt like I let the boys down a bit because I didn't tell them in advance that I was doing it because my management at the time was saying, look, this is the best way we don't want it to, you know, we don't want, you can't trust

people, et cetera. And it was tough because I think I let the two lads down. But also part of them, I think, knew the time was right as well. And one of us had to make that step to do it. And it's not, It's crazy because, you know, six years, five, five or six years later, we're now back together. Yeah. And we are genuinely stronger and happier than ever as a band. So it's really nice. You're grown up, so. We're men.

We're old men. Yeah. Well, no, you're young men. Young men. But I'm just interested in the next day where you were no longer because you had the label of Union J, of your head. And then the next day, thank goodness, you were just you. You were Josh. did you feel elevated?

Did you feel down? How was that feeling? Felt quite alone. I felt quite alone because for years I've been Josh from Union J or Uni & J's Josh Cuthbert, whenever there would be press or anything, that would be me. And that's quite hard because, yes, I'm part of a band, but I also have my own feelings, you know, identity, passions, etc.

And it was very scary, but I also knew it was the role. right thing to do. I had, I think just after that, I did Celebrity Master Chef, which I loved. And that was the first kind of TV experience I did on my own without the three boys. And I had no idea if I was capable of handling myself of being capable enough to actually stand alongside other celebrities in a big show and hold my ground. But I was really proud of myself for doing that. And I managed to do really one on the show and I loved it and it was the best experience. So for me that was an eye opener to think, come on Josh, you can do this. You don't need three other lads next you all the time. Yes, it's great when they're there, but you can also be successful and have

great experiences on your own too. You use the word celebrity because it was celebrity, it is Celebrity Master Chef, a huge show and there's celebrity. Everything. And of course, George did the jungle. Yeah. How do you feel about the the word celebrity. It's a really odd word. Isn't it? It's a really horrible word. I don't like the word.

I mean, I do not. I'm definitely not one. You know, for me, celebrities are George Clooney, you know, Tom Cruise, those kind of absolute monsters that you look at and you think, oh my God. But it's a really odd word. I don't like it. It makes it feel uneasy. I mean, a lot of my mates go, oh, look at it.

Whenever I'll be out with that, you know, my mates and someone comes up to me and says, oh, can I have a picture or whatever it is. It's, they all always go, oh, celebrity. You know, oh look, a celebrity friend. You know, because it's a really... Yeah, but that's great because they are. It is. Of course they are. And I love that.

But no, it's a weird word, isn't it? It is. It's very odd. So, okay, so let's move on from... We'll come to the reunion and the documentary and everything in a minute. But that time where you weren't Union J. And you then... Social media has become very important and you're very powerful on social media.

And suddenly you came out and spoke. about mental health. Now, it's enormous somebody like you doing it because older men do it, younger men do it. But not many people in your position do it where people perceive you as you're a pop star, you're very handsome, you've got a beautiful wife, girlfriend at the time, of course,

that you've got a modelling career. Oh, how can he have mental health issues? Because people put their own story onto the pictures that they see. So it's a huge thing that you've done this. How did you have the balls to do it? What was that kick that made you do it? I think it was, I was so down, so down for a long time. Oh, it was a long time.

I just think I, and I, you know, I had therapy. I still do. I checked myself into a mental health institute for 10 days that I went away to. But you did this for yourself, which is amazing. Yeah, yeah. And I could start to see a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel with it, a tiny, tiny bit. And that was enough of enough. I had enough strength inside me to kind of talk about my journey.

And I thought, you know, I'm just going to be honest with my following about how I'm feeling right now in that moment in time. And I remember I just got back from Costa Rica, a work trip in Costa Rica. And I felt really happy for the first time in such a long time. And I was confident enough to talk about my mental health journey. And I did. And the reaction I got was just, like, it makes me, it makes me emotional thinking about it now because it blew me away. And the thing that really just, I found crazy was how many men messaged me. It was, I'm talking hundreds.

I'm talking, you know, I'm actually talking over thousands of messages about it. And for me, that was just like, oh, my goodness. Like, I'm not alone. Because at that time, I generally thought, like you said earlier, what have I got to be depressed about, be down about? And that's quite tough because a lot of people I'd speak to go, oh, come on, mate. You know, what have you got to be down about? But that's the worst thing.

Yeah, of course it is. Because every person is going in having a different journey. Yeah. And it's so easy to, you know, to generalize someone. I think, oh, his life's great. but you don't know what's going on in their head. You don't know what's going on behind closed doors. You don't know how my relationship is with my wife.

You don't know anything. You just see a kind of highlight real on my Instagram at times. And that's when I thought, you're not, highlight real isn't enough. It's not real. So I've got to be more genuine. And as soon as I did that, it was just an amazing response.

And I thought, I've got a duty of care to these people that follow me that also struggle. And if I can make one other person to other people, whatever it is, feel better and help them and make sure they know they're not alone, then that's job done. And it's funny, it used to be one or two people, but now I know it's a lot of people. And I have this, I feel like I have this responsibility on my shoulders now to kind of help people. But I like that because it helps me too. It's like we're helping each other. And it's really nice.

And I think that being a guy, in particular being a bloke, is challenging when you have mental health issues. because in your social scenes at the parable with the boys or at football, whatever it is, lads don't open up. Why? I don't know. I don't know. And that's a question I don't know. I think it's, it probably goes back to years and years ago.

Hunter and gather. Yeah, it literally does. It literally does. And I think that needs to change. And I think it is slowly changing. And I've encouraged it in my friendship group to, you know, not just ask. You're right, mate. Yeah, good.

Yeah. And then that's it. And not listen to the answer. Exactly. Exactly. ask how you are twice, three times, four times, if you think. Because let's be honest, we all know when someone close to us isn't quite right. And that's where I feel like it's my responsibility to help those other people that follow me.

It's a big responsibility on your shoulders, though. Did you realize, though, I suppose you didn't, but when you first talked about mental health issues and admitted everything you'd gone through, when you started getting the feedback, were you aware about the responsibility on your shoulders? Or did you just think I'm going to help people? I'm not myself. Let you say it is a two-way thing. Of course it is.

And I don't mean that in itself to come across in a self-ish way. No, no, no. I get it. I get it completely. It's kind of therapy for me too. Yeah. It's kind of therapy knowing that I'm not alone. And like I said, if people look at me and think he's got a great life and he's

feeling like that, then how, then I can, you know, I can understand why I'm feeling like that too. So, no, I didn't have a. clue about the responsibility but I just love the feeling of of knowing that I am helping other people out there that just feels really good because life is so short so so so short and you know like we've seen with Tom Parker recently it's it's important to live every day to the max so if I can help people have a better day then that's one more day that they're happier than dinner than they're not so that's how I've lived my life I think

if you can pass on some joy and so listening is so important. How do your family feel about you being so open about it? I think they're really proud of me because my mum, you know, my wife, Chloe, who's just the best thing in the world. She's, you know, she could have left me so many times when I was down and struggling. So it got you were that, you were that down. I was, yeah, I was a very difficult person to be around for quite a while. because of my mental health struggles.

And she stuck by me and I think she knew that the kind of happy Josh, that at peace Josh is the person I want to be with. But, you know, she would often call my mum because she didn't know what else to do. So my mum and family came around loads of times when I just stayed at bed for days on end or whatever it was. So I think they're proud of me because there's no way I would have been able to talk about my mental health journey when I was in my lowest headspaces. So I think they're just proud. I think they yeah. And also it's funny because even though you don't actually associate, I never thought my parents would have mental health issues because they're older and they're wiser. But you know, just speaking to to sort

of family members that are older, they've all, everyone has them. Well, especially recently. I think, I think with the two years of COVID that we all face, people being much more open about mental health issues but I think it affected many people and I think over the years we're slowly going to see the effect it's had on on kids on elderly people and everybody in between and so everybody talking about it

hallelujah absolutely amen to that I mean you to me you seem like you're in a really good place right now and I'm sure you get do you get down days of course you do yeah yeah you know I'm on I'm open and honest with my followers about the medication I'm on. I'm on antidepressants. And they've helped for you.

They have. They're very mild, but they just help me wake up every morning feeling a little bit more positive and a little bit kind of have the confidence to deal with the day ahead, really. And you don't tell other people that this is the only way. Of course not. That's what's important, which is great. I love that.

It doesn't work for everyone. And I'm not saying, if you're listening, I'm not saying out there to go and if you're feeling down, that's the answer. Absolutely. You know, I've had therapy for two years. And it got to the point where I just needed a little bit of extra help. And to be completely honest with you, I'm not ashamed of it whatsoever.

No. And if you're listening to this and you are on medication, don't be ashamed. Don't think it's a sign of weakness because it's not an actual. I actually look at it as a sign of strength that you are strong enough in yourself to seek help. Absolutely. I love that. Yeah. Absolutely.

And it's very funny that for years, nobody would say I had therapy. and then people would suddenly come out and say, I've had, just say, go on, you can say it. Listening and being able to talk and saying, having somebody listen is very important. So you guys getting back together again.

Yes, yes. Now that sort of came from nowhere as far as your fans. Probably they were all hoping for that one day. But with you talking about all of your mental health issues and you were pleased that it was all over, bam bam, here you go again. straight back in the deep end.

Here we go, Josh. No, but it's, do you know what? It's come at the perfect time. Lockdown, you have so much thinking time. I'm sure you know. You sit there and you think, just think about life. You think about everything, don't you, during lockdown? And I think we all thought, let's give this another go.

And George's come back and we're back as a four, the original four. And it's, it's lovely. It's really nice. Is it really? It is. It is. It's, yeah, you know, you get the occasional kind of where you freak out a bit and you think, oh my God, am I actually doing this again?

Because it does bring up old negative memories and things like that. But actually, you know, we've got a sold out show at the Palladium. It's the end of May. In the May, 28th of May. So, I mean, happy day. It's just going to be brilliant. Like, we're just going to be up there performing again. And if that's, I always said, if that's the only thing that we do as a band again,

then I'm happy with that. I hope it's not. I hope we go on and do loads more things. But things didn't end the right way last time. So if this is the final hurrah. hopefully it's not, then I'll be happy with that. So, and the documentary as well, so you're doing a documentary. How, have you seen what the others have said?

No. You haven't. I've seen bits. We got the kind of highlight reel that was pitched to all of the television shows and, but not going deep. Now that, that, that, I said some pretty brutal stuff, being honest, and I'm sure they did too. Because, you know, I just think honesty is the best policy of this. We, we have, I said to the boys when we came. back we just have to be honest. If we piss each other off, then we have to just say it. Life is

too short not to say it and we didn't do that before. So, but no, honestly, more positive note, it feels brilliant to be back and I'm really excited. So, okay, it's that awful. I hate it when, when I ask. So I'm, forgive me. But what happens after the Palladium gig? You know, have you got plans, hopes and dreams and ambitions still with the guys? Or are you just closing that off and just seeing where it goes. It's a tough one. It's a tough one because I would love to do more, but it has to be right. It has to be right for us all. We have to have the right team behind us because I'm not letting us get in a position again where we can get screwed over and take an advantage of. So if everything feels right after the show, which, and in my head I think it will,

then there's already talks about tour. There's already, we've got an offer of a tour, should I say. So, yeah, that. As well. Yeah. You know, music, music has changed so much. It's not about charting the, it's, it's in such a different place as to when we last release music. It was all about getting top 10, number one, number top five, whatever it was, whereas now it's a bit different. So I would love to release new music. You know, JLS boys have done it, the ones who boys have done it since they've come back. But actually, neither of them have really charted. It's kind of just for their fan base. And I think that's really nice. I think it's just nice to put out music without the pressure of charting. It's not all about

that anymore. But there's so much more that you personally can give. I mean, obviously, you know, there's, there's, there's, I can, there's books and there's all this, all the, the stuff that you can do. But, but, but I like the fact that from what I can tell that you are Josh, who's in Union J, you're not Union J's Josh this time. Thank you. Does that how it feels? It does. It does. Yeah, it really does. That's really nice of you to say that, because that's, it does feel like that. have my own identity. I've gone off for the last five, six years and followed my dreams and had my difficult days, but also got through it. So I feel a lot stronger. And that's another thing. I feel if this was to work out again with the band and we were to go on and have some more

success, I feel like I would be better prepared for it this time round, which that's why I want it more than ever, because I would genuinely not take it for granted. I would enjoy every second of it and just smile my way through it this time round. But did you take it for granted before? Do you think? I mean, that's for you, from what you've said, it broke you. But did you really take it for granted? Not deliberately.

I didn't take it for granted deliberately. But when I look back, I kind of did. I think we all did. Because you don't think it's going to end. You honestly don't think it's going to end. And, you know, you spend money like your Bill Gates, which are far from not. And you just think this journey is never going to come to an end because you are, like you said before, you are kind of going around the country and you've got loads.

You're very lucky. We were very lucky to have loads of fans and do loads of shows. And you just think there's no, why would this ever end? Right. Okay. That's the thing. But then it does. It really does.

So that part you took for granted. Oh, big time. Right. Okay. Big time. And it ended so abruptly and so out of nowhere that, you know, we were number one. six, seven weeks before we got dropped, which just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

So what's the reason that that happened? At the time I didn't know, but now I've known, and it's probably not my place to, there's a few, let's just say if I said them, I don't think I'd work again. It's pretty brutal. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. And you've found out what they are? At the time, we kept everything from each other,

and we weren't very honest with each other. And I think that there's been, now that we've spoken and got back being honest with one another, we've found out things that happened that, you know, that were a bit crazy really. But at the time, we didn't know that.

We just, our whole life just got completely turned, you know, we were on the highest of the high seven weeks before to then be told, essentially you're out of a job. That's your dream over. Thank you very much. See you later.

That's how brutal it is. And out of nowhere. Because with things like, with things in the music industry, when I watch the documentaries of other bands and they go through their journey of how they were dropped, most of them could see it coming because sales were going down

and, you know, tours weren't going as well and there was less demand. But with us, we were, we genuinely felt the most secure and successful that we'd ever felt as a band. That was why it was so hard to process because it just happened out of nowhere. Well, it was. You were the most,

you suddenly, like you say, you were number one. Yeah. Wham bam, bam, that's it. I mean, it's cruel. It's nuts. It's actually very cruel to do that to four young lads as well. Oh, my word. Sorry, I don't need to come on here and be all doom.

No, you're not. And don't apologize because I think, you know, a lot, because I've been looking, reading about you and reading interviews and looking at your social media. I love you for your honesty, but also that it's not doom and gloom because you're honest. And so you can't do anything else apart from just be honest, Ken? you that's the thing but I there are other things that I think you I mean you please tell me you're not finished with musical theater I would like do you know I went to see Hamilton last night isn't it great it's just the best thing ever it's the second time I've seen it in a month and it just I sat there and I was saying to my wife I was saying I could be him she was like which which character

would you be then I was like him and she was like no I don't think you could you could be him so it's kind of it has I would love to explore that you've got to do my music theater come from away have you seen come from away? I haven't. Good? Incredible. Incredible. Do you Evan Hanson? Yes. That's good. Very, very good. Yeah. There's that, do you know what? I actually would love to. I feel like maybe it's something I pursue in my 30s, I think. I think it's all there for you. I hope so. And big, and doing TV presenting. I would love to. I would absolutely love to. I've, I've, yeah, TV for me. I had my own radio show for a bit, you know, you are, you are kind of a role model in that, in that side of things. No, you are. You are.

Are you and I don't mean that. No. No. But like I would love to do that. I'd love to. Yeah. I feel like actually in TV presenting, the older you get, the more opportunities come. Would you say that?

Maybe not when you're a woman, but that's a whole other. I'm sorry to hear that, because that's very unfair. That's a whole other story. No, no, don't, don't apologize. But radio, I think you've got it all there ready for you to take. and it's just doing it at the speed you're doing it feels the speed feels right speed. Do you feel that? Yeah, 100%.

100%. It's on my terms now. And when an opportunity comes about with my management, you know, we'll sit down and properly assess it and not just say yes to everything. The biggest thing is being able to say no. 100%. 100%. There was something I turned down recently that, you know, as a child I'd have gone, oh my God.

but actually it would have been detrimental and could have had a negative effect on my headspace. And I just wasn't, I didn't feel like I was strong enough in that time to do it. Don't do I'm a celebrity. No, you don't think so. Is that what it was? No, it wasn't. I always said, strictly you'd be very good at. I'd love to do.

Strictly would be fun. They'd have you in an, like that. It's always the, I would find it very challenging for my, because you know what it's like, the strictly curse and all that. I mean, my wife and I, we are so tight and so amazing. but it's a tough it's a really intense thing to put your partner through i think um i was only talking to scott mills about it a few you know a little while ago and he was saying about you know what happened behind the scenes of the show and it is pretty crazy it's quite an intense thing

to throw yourself into but i also know people that have loved it and had the best time so i've got friends who've done it and loved it i mean absolutely the most unlikely people who went into it and in fact I saw him on Monday and he was saying he still has the most fantastic memories of doing. I couldn't believe it when he was doing it at the time. But all of those things. They're all, but I think you're more than that. Oh, thank you. No, you are.

The future is there and you've just got to embrace it. And as you say, learn to say no to all the right things and say yes to the other ones. Thank you, Gabby. No, but it's brilliant. Josh, I think you're lovely, so lovely. So thank you so much for doing this. No, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

Thanks so much for listening. Coming up next week, TV presenter, radio broadcaster and podcaster, Kate Thornton. That Gabby Roslin podcast is proudly produced by Cameo Productions and music by Beth Macari. Could you please tap the follow or subscribe button? And thank you so much for your amazing reviews. We honestly read every single one of them

and they mean the world to us. Thank you so much for listening.