That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Judi Dench & daughter Finty Williams

Episode Date: October 4, 2020

In this first episode Gaby is joined by acting royalty Dame Judi Dench and her actress daughter Finty Williams. It’s a fun filled chat including their love of sea otters, as well as Judi’s penchant for learning a new fact daily with her favourite TV programmes ‘Pointless’, ‘University Challenge’, ‘Tipping Point’, and ‘Who Wants To Be A Millionaire’! Both Dame Judi and Finty speak of their admiration for Morgan Freeman and one of the people Judi would most like to meet - Labour Party Leader Sir Keir Starmer.  Produced by Cameo Productions, music by Beth Macari.  Join the conversation on Instagram and Twitter @gabyroslin #thatgabyroslinpodcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to that Gabby Roslyn podcast with me, Gabby Roslyn. I am so excited to actually be launching this show at last with none other than the greatest living actress and her fabulous actress daughter, Dame Judy Dench and Fenty Williams. If you've ever wondered about what Dame Judy Dench has in the back of her sitting room or what she's done in her back garden with some trees, trust me, it's very magical. or what sort of sofa she sits on. Well, have a listen. Gorgeous ladies. Hello, gorgeous woman. Hello.

Oh, how dirty is your sofa, Judy? Well, I can't see, so it could be absolutely filthy. Okay. Finty, how dirty is her sofa? Well, it's quite... No, it's not. It's used. It's cream, so it's just...

It's quite dirty. Well, used, I like used, you see. I actually... I'm one of those people. I don't know what your house is like, but I'm not good with everything immaculate and in its place and super neat and tidy clean sort of thing. No, you have to have a house. It's a house where you live. Exactly. And then also, it's weird if everything's in its place. Please tell me the things aren't in their places. Oh, yes. Have you got about four hours? I just like to tell you, Gabby, the sofa that we're sitting on, it's very lovely, it's cream. The whole room is cream. It's beautiful.

We've got a sheep in the room. She's, the thing that's sitting behind her on the sofa is a bright blue furry octopus. And also we have, we have, we have a life-sized sheep in the room. Okay, so you have a blue octopus and a sheep in your room. Why are we just doing this in audio? Because there's a, you could tell me anything and I'd have to believe it. Well, quite. Swan and a duckling.

What, real ones? No, Gabby. We have got real ones that just outside the window, not swan. Or octopuses. We don't know, we might. Have you got a sheep in your car? Have you got sheep then? We've got a full-sized sheep in this room.

Yes, but not in the garden. No, in the room. We sound like mad women. But you do have, have you got biscuit the hamster still and the moorhens? No. Oh, no. We have got the moor hens and the ducks, but we now have, we share two cats who were actually bought from.

Mar but couldn't live here. But they're called Ron and Tits. Okay, Ron I get Tits. Tell me about Tits. Oberon and Titania. Oh, of course, silly minutes. I treat them like children. And Tits had to go to the vet.

And I said to think, don't what, the vet's bill was gigantic. I said, don't, please don't worry. I paid the bill. And so then I got flowers that were sent to me saying, thank you from tits and the florists rang fint and said there is one word about this that we don't think is correct we think we've misheard it we're not allowed to print it because it's offensive can we just start with laughing and and corpseing on stage because i know you two are just like me

have you ever had that moment on stage or on camera where you just cannot carry on because you're laughing i mean it's happened to me too many times gabby I got into really severe trouble. But the worst was, we're not on stage, so we can say Macbeth. We did Macbeth in a very small space with the audience just sitting around and I was kneeling at Ian McKellen's feet and the audience were about four feet from me

and he said, misquoted and said, light thickens and the crow makes wing to the rookie nook, he said, instead of rookie wood. And I had to turn it into, I made an excuse to myself quickly that Lady Macbeth at this point had a fit of hysteria and threw herself about a lot

and lay on the ground but the thing is that Ian had it as well you know Sir Lawrence called it exquisite agony funny enough the worst one that ever happened to me was also in Macbeth but not obviously not that production I did a production of Macbeth at the Globe

and one of my favourite humans on the planet is an act called Gorn Granger and he's I think he was 70 then and he we had to run on to do the sleepwalking scene with Samantha Spiro who you know and I ran on through the crowd of the globe and up the stairs and I had to turn around and deliver the first line to him and he'd run on behind me and then he was wearing like one of those long cassocks and he walked up the steps but every step he took he walked further up the cassock. So literally, but then couldn't work out how to step backwards and stand up straight.

So he played the whole scene as a sort of three foot hunchback. And then there was another weekend when we were doing it. They were both happened on Sundays, bizarrely. And the first line that the doctor says is, when was it she last walked? And Gorn Granger came on, managed to make it up the stairs this. this time. Samantha Spira is there doing her sort of mad, sleep, walking acting, and he shouted at the top of her voice, when was it she last worked? Walked, walked!

The other thing that I want to talk to you about, Judy, is that I read that you like learning a new fact every day. Is that still the case? Well, it is, and even more in lockdown, actually. I like, I just, I love learning. I just, it's only to keep my brain game. going, Gabby. All it is is to keep, you know, the machinery working. And I love, that's why my favourite programme is University Challenge. I absolutely love it. Because I just love to learn a new fact or a new word or, you know, something like that, or learn something. Or, you know, just to keep everything oiled. In fact, yesterday, Gabby, I came down here, we watched. tipping point, which is one of Marr's most favourites, then we watched Pointless. And then we've watched...

Then we watched Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? Do you know what? I think you should move in with my father. That was his whole day yesterday. He's the same age as you, Judy, and he loves the Chris shows. And he says it just keeps his brain ticking over and working. And word games, he absolutely loves as well. And he says that they kept him sane, especially during lockdown. Well, I quite agree. And I think to learn something new is wonderful. I racked my brain about giving you a new fact

because I thought probably between you, you had a lot of facts. So I've found a very sweet fact that you might not know that I hope is your fact for the day for both of you. So I've now learnt that sea otters hold hands when they sleep. They do. We've seen them. We've seen them. What?

Yes, we've seen them do it. In Canada. And one, they together, and they lie on their back, and one does link arms, and they both have a shell on their front, a stone on their front, to, you know, to break scallops or oysters or whatever, but one goes to sleep while the other steers. They fold everything in, so they fold their tails in and their paws and everything. I'd like to know that, I think you should know that we're acting out the sea otter.

just for our own benefit here. Which is the one that's asleep then? Who's asleep and who's holding the hand? They take it in turns. No, I meant out of you two now. Oh, well, Mar was just doing it. Mar was just doing everything. Okay, I'll tell you a good fact about sea otters, Gabby,

is that if you put your finger on a sea otter, the amount of hair that your fingertip will cover is the amount of hair that we have on our bodies. That's how much hair they have. What? Yeah. So if you were lucky enough to put your finger onto a sea otter... You might not have one afterwards.

You might not. You'd have to pick the one that was asleep. The amount of fur, the amount of hair follicles that your fingertip would cover on that sea otter is the amount of hair that we have on our entire body. That's how dense it is on their bodies. Wow. I can't believe you've... Of all the things to say, what an amazing thing to witness.

Talking of animals, this is a strange, it's a strange segue, but something that I was also thinking about the other day is SEO Trot, which I thought was one of the most extraordinarily beautiful things. I watched it straight through twice. We had 80 tortoises, Gabby. 80? Just the 80. Some of them were real. Most of them were real and a few were prop tortoises. But I don't know who appeared. I don't know who. I'm not sure that SEO was the same tortoise. But it was simply wonderful.

What makes you decide a yes or a no to both of you to something that's offered you? I just say yes, because I don't get offered that many things. I say yes too. Really? Do you ever say no? Well, sometimes, but rarely. Do you think, because you also, both of you have talked about gratitude and of being thankful. And you both use the word lucky a lot. Do you believe that those things carry people through, especially, obviously the last few months, not years, although it feels like years sometimes, but the last few months.

But gratitude and luck, do you think there are very important things for us all to be able to hold on to? I think it's incredibly, I'm just coming to the end of filming and I know how lucky I am. I know that this is just, this is something that Ken Brano has written during lockdown about his childhood and now we're just, we are filming it. I know how lucky I am. But I think, when you think of the number of people, especially in our profession, who want to act and have all,

all the facilities of acting and are just as good as everybody else. I mean, I think it is a question. I think it is often a question of luck of just being in the right pace at the right time. And therefore, unbelievably thankful about it. Can I just talk about your childhood, Judy? And then obviously your mother was a, she worked in the theatre. No, no, no, she didn't. Didn't she work as a wardrobe mistress occasionally?

She just happened to make the costumes for the mystery. Yes. Yes. And you had actors in your house when you were a child, did you? staying? We had, we used to have members of the Doily Cart. When they went on tour, they'd come and stay. And we were all tremendous Gilbert and Sullivan fans. So we always used to sing and know all the lines and sing, get them to deport things. The last thing they'd want coming in from the show was the whole family saying, oh, do do do that bit and do that bit. So, but we were, it was, although my power was a doctor, it was very theatre-orientated in the,

fact that we were taken to the theatre all the time. And my father used to be able to do the whole of the Mort D'Arthur. And he used to wake me every morning with lines from Omar Kayam, awake for morning in the bowl of night, hath flung the stone that sets the stars to flight. And lo, the hunter of the east has caught the sultan's turret in a noose of light. He said it every morning to me. Not a surprise, I suppose, that one of my brothers was a doctor,

one was an actor, Jeff, and I followed him. So was it the same then for you, Finty then? So Judy, you had all these performers around. And Finty as well, you had, I presume, not necessarily staying in your house, but you had obviously your incredible father as well and mother who were performers. So was it always, I hate to say inevitable,

because that word annoys me somehow, but it just feels such a glory. profession to go into and I can imagine you felt quite wide-eyed about it did you? I did. I wanted to be a dancer, really. A nurse dancer or something? No, acrobatic nurse was when I was about four. You know those things that you pull yourself up on in hospital when you've broken your leg? I thought that they could act as very small trapezes. Oh, I love that. But it would have been a triumph too, swinging down the ward and taking your temperature upside down the nurse. I mean, it would have been thrilling, wouldn't it?

That's what they should do. Yeah, I think so. I might offer my services. Then musicals have always been my absolute passion, and so I wanted to be a dancer, and then I was offered a television series when I was still at school, which I took with Ma and Dadden's support. And then I did a play, and then I went to drama. school. So I'm loath to say that I ever particularly made the choice, but that I ever didn't

sort of make the choice, if you know what I mean. Yeah, completely. I completely, I'd completely understand. Did you, were your parents completely supportive of your choice? I know you wanted to be a theatre designer, but, but were they completely, did they say yes, do this, go for it? They did. They did. And Jeff before me, Jeff went to Central before me and then won a Fulbright scholarship and went to Atlanta and Georgia and came back and he actually is the actor who's been longest ever at Stratford. So yes, I mean we we was so lucky and they were so enthusiastic and we always taken. I remember as a little little girl being taken to York Wreck by mummy to see cuckoo in the nest and there's a moment when a man stands up at the end of the bed out of a kind of

two people are in the bed and this man stands up wearing combinations, do you know, those long trousers and vest and things. And I laughed so much that I made myself sick. And so mummy had to take me out. And I was so cross on the way home and crying and saying, but I wanted to know what happened to the man. So she took him back the next day. Oh, she took him back.

She did. Oh, that's fantastic. But all those young people who were just leaving drama school, and, I mean, what on earth are they going to do? What advice would you give to them, Judy? Oh, it obsesses me each day. I mean, I kind of feel that people, we've had a go, a lot of us. I mean, I'm meaning my generation,

but for young people and also just going to university and just about to emerge into a new job. And, I mean, Sammy is, it was going to do a new job. job and of course that's held up because that's to do with the theatre and you know what what hope have we got and that their enthusiasm should be taken away you know because you can be enthusiastic for so long and then you know the the longer this goes on the more difficult it's going to be oh I despair I heard somebody the other day really interesting it was not apropos of this but I heard a woman being interviewed, she was the headmistress of a school in America.

And she said that when she became a headmistress, she realized she had to do three things. One was, remember that young people aren't just small adults. Number two, never ever talk down to a young person and make them feel patronised. And number three, never let them be without hope. and I thought that was so pertinent, you know, about now. Do you live for the day, both of you, or do you look forward or are you very good at living in the moment? I'm a terrible one for living in the past.

Me too. I have a great yearning to go back to places that remind me of people. I hang on to groups of people from the past because I want to sort of hang on to that happiness. I always, I still always think that like my life's going to turn into a Disney film. I still think that that's going to happen. It's going to be the Disney ending. I don't know, I think lockdowns made us all appreciate just how much we have without looking forward or back.

It certainly made me realise what I have immediately surrounding me. What lockdown has done is it has brought out, people have got. inventive about so many things and I just love that I love it that you know people went out on their balconies and and I mean certainly for the NHS of course but but that there's been quizzes online and and what's that thing called Zoom yes which I don't know about and Zoom so you know there is and I heard the other day a wonderful wonderful story about a woman in Northern Ireland who came out and that alleyway running along the back of our house, she saw the children playing and thought, this is too grim for them. And she said to somebody, would you

put the dustbin somewhere else? And he did. And she and then her neighbour and then the person across the way, then the other one, they've all become a community for the first time and have created in this alleyway the most wonderful garden. Well, that's so, such a regenerative feeling to have and you think what a, that wouldn't have happened maybe if lockdown hadn't happened. Somehow, somehow, if you can, find the pluses.

And my God, there are a lot of minuses, but somehow to find them. Can we just talk about obviously a horrible time in your lives? I mean, my mother died of lung cancer around the same age as your dad and your husband as Michael. having each other there through all of that.

You know, that's another time that you just realise how important family and friends are, don't you? I'm going to be very honest. I wasn't very present. You know, I've been sober for a long time now, but I wasn't at that point. And I wasn't as present as I could have been. and you know that's something that I will always be really regretful about so I know I know who the friends are of Mars that got her through that time and I will always be very grateful to them and you know you can only hope to

make up for something by carrying on being well? It's all a bit of a haze to me, actually. It wasn't the best time, was it? No, it wasn't the best time. But Gabby, I tell you something the other day, I came into the house from the garden, and I said something out loud to Michael, because his presence is very much in our house,

and the garden and everything. And Finter and I talk about it often. and I went upstairs and the curtain in my bathroom had flicked open in somewhere or double back and I straightened it and there was a bang on the wall

and I looked down on the floor was a round tin with I Love You on the top of it Now you can interpret it any way you like you can say well the tin was I don't remember the tin sitting there at all don't remember the tin but those kind of things do you know whether it people will say oh it's your imagination I think that those are the kind of things that sometimes just happen at the most perfect time and the other one was when we were isolating do you remember and I was standing in my garden in Stockwell and and I spoke out loud to Dad and although obviously he never saw that house

There are many reasons why I think he chose it for us. But I was talking out loud to him and I said, please just tell me that the family, all our people are going to get through this okay. And I went in and his favourite song, well, not his favourite song, but a song that he and I loved more than any other used to make him howl with tears,

was Whitney Houston singing, I will always love you. And it comes on the radio at the moment. bizarre times. And I'd had, I think it was magic at the musicals on the radio. And I walked into the kitchen and it was playing. And I phoned Maher straight away. And I just couldn't stop crying. I was like, listen, listen to what's playing. Listen. So, you know. And as Ma said, you can take that as coincidence or... No, don't. I believe I'm exactly the same as you two, exactly the same. Let's talk musical theatre, which is something that all of us love deeply.

Judy, I was listening to Cabaret, and wow, it's incredible. Isn't that an amazing show? It is a wonderful show. And I got the most wonderful, I pass this on all the time, wonderful piece of advice from Hal Prince that you could possibly hope for. And my goodness, I hung on to it. He said, you must never finish, if you speak, in a musical. You must never then go into another voice to sing the song. It must be the same

person who spoke the lines before. And it's a wonderful, wonderful piece of advice. You know, you don't suddenly go into singing mode. Well, I can't because I can't sing it. Well, you can't. Well, you say you can. But you've done, I mean, also you did send in the clouds. I mean, that's an extraordinary song. And there is something, I remember my singer-teacher always. saying, you've got to act the words, not just think, oh, can I hit the note? Yes, that's right. And he, that's right. I remember because he also said, if you can't get to the final note in Cabaret, act that you can't get it. That's brilliant.

Because it takes anxiety away from you. But Finn doesn't have to do that because she's got the voice and she can sing it. No, not at all. No, don't say not at all. You are a singer. She is a singer. I'm not. She is definitely a singer. I sing in my car.

I absolutely smashed the songs from Frozen 2 on the way back on the M4 the other day. I sang them like nobody else has ever sung them. You really do want to be in a Disney? I want to be full Disney or a Muppet. That's my dream. You want to be a Muppet or you want to be in the Muppets? No, I want to be a Muppet. You must only have scenes with Animal.

And Elmo. And Elmo. I'd like to be, I'd like to be, I'd, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, would very much like to, you know, be in charge of a Muppet. Right, we have to come up with a Muppet name for you then. We do. Well, I've got, I've already gone, there's Ivy Tower. You know, and she speaks like this. She's a kind of, you know, real Broadway sort of girl. That's brilliant. Ivy Tower, because that was the name of the place that Joe stayed in when he was on Broadway, was called Ivy Tower. So I thought that she should be a person. Oh, my God, you've got it.

What does she look like? You're the designer, Judy. Come on. We've got, we won the whole set. So Finty, what does she look like? Judy, what's the set like, please? Well, there's a glass floor then that she dances on. Yeah. A glass floor? She dances on a glass floor. Tricky, tricky glass floor if you're a Muppet. No, not if you're a Muppet. No, feet. Yes, but then everybody will see her pants if she wears a skirt. I'm sorry, you can't have a glass floor because if somebody's walking underneath, forget that you're a Muppet. I don't mean you, that Ivy Towers a Muppet, everyone's going to see your pants. What if she's not wearing pants? Well, quite. Oh, gosh.

She doesn't strike me as a girl who'd wear pants. No. Judy can ask you something else as well. In Desert Island Discs, you said something that has never, ever left me. It's one of those, there's two things actually, which I'll tell you about, she's quite a nice coincidence. But one of the things that you said, and I think it was about five or six, seven years ago maybe that you just said this, but you said on the desert island, and this made me cry, and I'm not going to cry now, but you said you wanted cutouts of friends and family. Yes, I did. Well, I'm no good on my own at all. I'm absolutely hopeless. I'm hopeless. I'm very, very, very bad at my own company.

And I think I always have been. So I think to have, you know, like that thing of, is it Eastern? Island, you know, and if you had all your friends all over the island, well, how wonderful that would be. Would you have like a little speaker with their voice? No, I don't think I would. I think it's just lovely to see them. My garden's full of trees that are all planted to our friends who have died, and they've all got their names on.

Little wooden plaque with their name on. A whole garden is full of friends. Oh, wow. May I ask who's in your garden? Oh, Alec McCown and Mikey, of course. Natasha Richardson. Natasha and Kevin Colson and Ned Sherrin and Frank Hoza. Yes, Ian Richardson. Lou Gish.

And John Rogan. Oh, imagine the conversations with all of them. They're all having a chat out there. And Uncle Peter and Uncle Jeff and Dad and Mama's best friend, Pink. they're all in the same bit, so I imagine they have quite a nice time together. They are. And Minnie, the dog. And Minnie, and Lorlos, Loford, and Lazarus, the goatfish.

And Biscuit, is Biscuit the hamster there? Biscuits out on the rockery. What a beautiful thing to do. I love that. I love, but my husband wants to go round the world planting trees. That's his life. Oh, what a brilliant thing to do. Can we come with him? Tell him that we'll come.

You bet. Happily, happily. Oh, goodness me. The other thing that you said on Desert Island desks, Judy, and this is a very in-thing, but you said you love the shipping forecast, and my father used to do the shipping forecast because he was a radio four newsreader and announcer.

Oh. Oh. He used to do the shipping forecast, and I told him that yesterday, when I was redoing all my research, and he said, well, that's made my day. Oh, how lovely. And did he say Finister? He did say Finisterre? I said to him, did you say Finisterre?

He said, absolutely I said Finisterre. She's literally, you made her day. Finisterre. There's no more beautiful name than that. But they did change it to Fitzroy. Mind you, he was on the boat, so it's all right, isn't it? He was on Darwin's boat. So Fitzroy, he's allowed to be there.

But Finisterre, God, it's romantic. Oh, well, that's love. You can tell your father that you literally made Mars Day. Well, I must have listened to him all the time. Yes, possibly. I remember it was great when I was an older teenager, and I wasn't sure what time my father. I wasn't sure about my parents coming in

if I had a boyfriend at home, but then we'd know that my dad was doing the shipping forecast and you might be on his way home. So you'd be safe till after German bite. Now, the two things, I don't know. if you're allowed to talk about what you're doing, Finty, but you're doing something for Netflix. Are you allowed to talk about it?

I don't know. Should we just talk about it then? Just don't tell me too much. Okay. It's so exciting. I'm extremely lucky, extremely lucky, and I know I am, that I am doing an eight-part series for Netflix.

So I go away next week for eight weeks, which is, I'm a bit like Mara. I'm not very good on my own, so the thought of, being on my own is a little bit scary, but they've been very kind and it'll be, you know, it'll be really lovely to be working again. The three of us have that thing that we're very shy. You and I've spoken about it before, and I know that Judy you've spoken about it. But going to a new job, I sort of go all funny in my tummy because I'm desperately shy.

And, oh, a new job makes me go. So I could hear the way you were talking about it, that sort of mixed excitement. and dear. Especially because it's the second series. Like 80% of the people all know each other and they're all very cool and trendy sort of people in their 20s and I genuinely feel like the person who's joined the school where everybody's wearing sort of Levi's and cowboy boots and looking cool and I'm wearing a pleated skirt and a pair of Clark's shoes.

I keep sort of. I keep having this weird thing of thinking, I must show them, I have tattoos. We'll flash our tattoos. Yeah. So I can be sort of cool. I think I'll probably... That'll all change. I'll be in my room sort of reading books and learning Italian while they're all sort of being cool somewhere else.

Do you know that's absolutely not the case, but it's before you do it is... Are you the same duty? Do you still get those shy moments? Yes. I get, I get, I'm, I'm, I've always been the whole of my life, paranoid about walking into a room on my own full of people. Same, same. I am still like it. I'm 85 for Christ's sake.

Are you? I'm joking. I'm going to be 806. But I, yes, I mean, I, what is it? I don't know what that's about. I don't know what that's, well, I suppose you're born with it. Like we all must be. insecure, is it, or frightened?

I mean, what will we frightened of? I don't know. I've often tried to understand, but it doesn't help the feeling. I'm fascinated by shyness, though, because I wonder if some of it comes from, I mean, it comes from insecurities, and I've read Finty that you've said about that, and I've read that you do as well,

that I don't like everybody looking at me, and yet I'm up there on a TV screen, and there is nothing I love more than doing my job. Do you think it's to do with social, fact that we're all allowed to have, whether it's presenting or, you know, working on a film or being on stage, that we're allowed to have an alter ego. And within that alter ego, you're allowed to be anything or feel anything. And that actually one of the reasons we do it is so that we don't have to confront the things that we really feel or how we really look or, you know, because on stage,

I'm 5'11 and have a 23-inch waist and 42-inch legs. And that very, very long hair right down my back. That really long hair. I know. People think because you can get up and you walk on a stage and do something, you must feel very secure about. Who says that? Where is the rule that says that?

You know, perhaps you're just brave or foolhardy. But so what we give out is absolutely the antithesis of what we're. we are inside maybe. We put up all sorts of bluffs for ourselves, do you know, to be able to get through things, I think. And once you've done one day, it's never quite as bad after that, I think. It's quite scary with everybody wearing masks at the moment, because you can't quite work out who people are. And so there's that sort of strange added thing of not, you know, we take for granted how much we take in from somebody's face, whether they look kind or whether they look a bit stern

and we might give them a bit of a wide berth or whether they look like somebody who'd be fun to be around. You know, and when you can only see people's eyes, also, poor Mar can't hear what people are saying. I can't hear, nor can I see them. So I can easily go up and play a whole scene with somebody. Totally the wrong person. Totally the wrong person.

So how much can you? Can you see? I know a lot of lovely people who have macular degeneration. And how much can you actually still see? I mean, can you see it? Can you see Finty now? Oh yes, I can. And yes, I can. I am sitting about 10 centimetres away from you. I can't see to read anymore. I can't read anymore. So I have a different process for learning. And I can't, they say, you see, if you can't hear of a lot, well either, that you look at people's mouths, that that's how you hear what they say if you can't see them. But if you can't see their mouths, because they're behind masks. They're talking about the masks with a see-through bit around the mouth for people who lip-read. But surely if you can't see terribly well and you're lip-reading, how do you see what they're saying?

Oh, you just have to be pointed in the right direction, don't you? And get closer. The excuse is exquisite, of course. Because if anyone, there's a whole crowd of people and they say, look who's here. I have to go for out six inches away from the person to say, hello. Talking of showbiz things, what is this about you being locked out of the Oscars?

Oh, yes. We were. We were. What happened? How did you get locked out of the Oscars? They locked the door. They shut the door. And we were that very tall.

No, we weren't. Yes. No, we weren't. Yes, because she was so. Okay. Yes. But so Gabby, the thing is that like, you know, the extraordinary thing about the Oscars is that bank of in people wanting to interview you if you're someone and you're on the left-hand side of the rope. If you're no one, you're on the right-hand side of the rope. But that bank of people wanting to interview you can take two hours. And because Mara is, Marum wanted to do all the interviews that she did. could and was being really kind and saying hello to everybody we didn't know that there was a time

limit on how long we had so it was we ended up in a doorlock with Morgan Freeman and then suddenly era she was and Charlottisbury Cruz and we were held in that door lock and they said you're not allowed to go in and then suddenly the doors flung open and tall Charlize Theron came in and said no I'm sorry I'm needed

and went straight in and then we went in and we were directed to some seats and then they realised that they'd put us in Morgan Freeman's seats and then we had to swap seats

it was a real nightmare we were like a couple of gerbils scurrying along behind Charlie's Theron going oh do we sit here no we don't I'm so sorry I'm so sorry.

But we had Morgan Freeman, hadn't we, for comfort? We did. That was good. Morgan Freeman is one of those people on my list that I think I'd go a little bit silly over. Yes, I'm afraid. It's very beautiful. He came and knelt down once. We were having a drink at the four seasons.

And he came and knelt down and said hello to us. And he was there with three ladies. And we introduced... Were you with... me down, yes, I was. You and Tor. And Tor, yes, and Tor, yes, and tour my agent. And he said, oh, how do you do? How do you do? He said, and these are my

wives, he said. He did. He did. He was so beautiful. Do you, so, oh, please, oh, other stories like that of you two at the Oscars. I love these. See, I love a bit, when I was a child, these are the sort of stories I used to dream about hearing. I just think they're wonderful, magical things that we don't ever see or hear about. Ask Finn about Antonio Bandaas. Go for it please. Oh man it's literally it's made my legs go like

the marinaura trench in one go um so it was the first year that mar got nominated and we we had an absolute blast we had the best time and there was a smoking area and I had very long do you remember when like we used to stick false nails on with super glue I had very very long nails and I was feeling extremely sort of glamorous and one of my nails, thank you mum, one of my nails popped off so I was busy trying to sort of handle the Lulu Guinness handbag whilst trying to stick the nail back on with super glue, realizing I'd stuck my thumb to my nail with the super glue and at that point so this was probably about four years after Evita came out when Antonio Banderas was the man I would have probably died for.

And he came up and he leant over and he said, excuse me, do you have a light for my cigarette? And I managed, with my thumb still stuck to the other one, I managed to get a lighter out of my little bag. And I held it up and I shook literally from head to toe trying to light this man's cigarette. And I thought, I'm going to blow up Antonio Banderas in a moment. because I'm just going to set fire to him.

Oh, man. He was so beautiful. I love all of those. You see, I love all of the fun little stories that people, that sort of keeps the magic. I think there's so much, well, I'll go back to the word judgment. I can't bear everybody so judgy, judgey, judgey of everybody. And this, oh, what's she wearing?

And who's this? And what are you wearing? And let's see inside your reality life. and let's see up your pants. I don't know whatever it is. It's all just everything's exposed. That's the glass floor. Yes, with a glass floor.

But it's just nice to hear those magical moments that we don't know about. Okay, who, for both of you then, who were those people that just make you, when you met them, that you go, so we know that yours is Antonio Banderos. But you're both allowed two more, one each. Yes, I got one.

After a matinee of Amy's view in New York, Richard Ayer came in, who was over for a short time, I think came in probably he'd seen it or give note or something like that, and there was a knock on the door and in walked Sydney Poitiers in a brown Macintosh. I'll never forget it, ever. And actually, in all Richard, we've talked about it so often since. That was a really fantastic moment. What did he say? What did you talk about? Can you remember? just adorable, elegant, exquisitely mad man. And, oh, he was, he was wonderful. I've got one too. Go. Go on them. I very significantly lost the plot when I met Cheetah Rivera. What happened? Tell me, tell me. No, it was at a very dear friend's memorial service in New York and I had to read a poem. And the reason that I I first went to New York was to see her. Dadden took me for my 21st birthday to see her in kiss of the spider woman.

And she happened to be in this memorial just before I was. And at the end, she said, oh, hang on a second, I must say hello. And she turned around and started speaking to me. I have no idea what she said to me. But I cried so hard that I said to Joe, I said, you have to tell her

how much this means meeting her here. and Cheetah Rivera. I mean, like, she's a goddess. And, you know, so much part of my childhood and, you know, how we've all heard West Side Story for the whole of our lives. You know, and it was just amazing. It was amazing.

I have to say, Gabby, there was one night when Ma was in New York doing Amy's view when the phone rang at about 4 o'clock in the morning. And I answered it, and this voice went, Vent! Fent, the Fons is in my dressing room. And she'd gone into the other room and he'd taken the phone into the cupboard to tell me that Henry Winkler was in her dressing room.

It's true. It was very excited. Well, I couldn't let it go. No. Gosh. Who would yours be, Gabby? Ah, there are, Desmond Tutu and Oprah Winfrey. Oh, golly, how wonderful.

Those are two people I would love to meet. The person I went a bit silly over was Donnie Osmond, because he was on my wall when I was little. And I was going to marry Donny Osmond. And I remember on my seventh birthday, I got a Timex watch. And I showed my poster of Donnie Osmond, my new watch. And I believe that Donny said, that's a really lovely watch. And so when I met Donny Osmond, all I could think about was that he'd seen my red watch

when I was wearing a nightie when I was seven. Oh, I hope you told him. I did. But he was probably, he was Donnie Osmond. He was probably quite used to so many people saying that to him. Saying, I showed you my red watch when I was in my night at him. That's so adorable. I have to say, just like you, Finty, I cried afterwards.

Oh, darling. No, I did. It was, there was the man I was going to marry. Yeah. Have you got people that you would still like to meet both of you? I would like to meet Keir Stama. Yes. Actually, weirdly, so would I. And I'm trying to find a place to get him onto this podcast because he's a fascinating man.

You can surely do that. Well, I'm going to give it a go. I know nothing at all except seeing him on television. But you know he's a man of such authority. I'd like to meet him. Okay, I'm sure that we can arrange that stuff. I have a feeling that might. I'm sure that can happen.

Finty, you've got, you're a loud one as well. Not so much for me. I'd like to meet Ben Platt. And I'd like to say thank you for the impact that he had on my Sammy when he did Dear Evan Hanson. Because suddenly Sammy said he felt like, well, actually it was more when he saw Sam Tutty do it here. But Ben Platt was, is God. But Sammy said for the first time he saw himself on stage. And for that, I just want to give him a really big hug.

So if I could have Ben Platt and Sam Tutty in a room, I'd be really happy. We lost Sammy to Ed Sheeran for quite a few years. He's got good taste. He has got very good taste. He also gets mobbed by people because they think he is Ed Shearan. Marr very brilliantly managed to organise a meeting between them before his concert for Sammy's 21st. Oh, my word. So that's his one.

That's his tummy looper one. And as we were walking out of the room, at the cheer and caught my arm and he went, excuse me, can I just make sure we're not related, are we? Oh, that's so lovely. But he's very prolific on, on, we're going back to TikTok because every time I think of TikTok, I think of my girls in lockdown going,

and you both can do do do, do, do, do, do, do. And you both can do it. I mean, you can all do it. I still can't. Oh, you could do that one, guys. Abby, that one's the easy one. I do the wrong arms. I'm not. Don't. It makes me go, no, that's, see, the idea of somebody teaching me a dance. Makes me go funny. You were in Chicago. You can do all of that. No, no, I was in Chicago and the only thing that Mama Morton had to do was to do one turn and I asked them, please, because I cried. I said, please, because I can't remember which way to turn. Can you take it out? And they did. And that's completely true. because I can't remember which way to turn.

That is so dear. That's so dear. That strictly come dancing thing makes me go wobbly. It's, ooh. No, so I can't do that. But the tune is in my head. You learned so many. We did.

Well, it's because I had a task master. Yeah. You liked that really hard one. With this one. With the time. Oh, gone. That one. Yeah, that took me ages to that.

Is that the one with the, you look at your wife? Yes, that's it. I'm impressed. You know, if in the whole, the wonderful lineup of things that you've done in your life, both of you, that I'm sitting here and telling you I'm impressed with a dance that you did on TikTok. Oh, tell the director as soon as I see him. Well, listen, will you send Sammy, my love, and say thank you for keeping us all just joyous over this time. But thank you both very much.

and it is an absolute joy and a pleasure and an honour to speak to both of you. And every time I see a glass floor, rather bizarrely, I'm going to think of No-Nickers. No-Nickers. Ivy Tower and no-knickers. Perfect. Bless you both. Thank you very much.

Stay safe. Thank you so much. Gubby. Take care of yourself and your family. Keep well. Keep well. Thank you so much for listening. Coming up on the next episode, the one and only, angel himself, Mr. Robbie Williams. That Gabby Rawson podcast is proudly produced by Cameo Productions. Music by Beth McCari. Please press the subscribe button and it will come straight

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