That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Kate Thornton

Episode Date: May 23, 2022

On this episode of the podcast Gaby is joined by Kate Thornton. Kate shares the story of how she started out as a journalist and became the first female editor at the age of 21 for Smash Hits Magazine. She speaks openly with some hilarious anecdotes involving Emma Bunton, Simon Cowell, Will Young and of course Ant & Dec. Kate talks beautifully about her son and the importance of being there for him even though she's a hard working single mother. Tune in for a fun filled episode packed with wonderful stories and a reflection on Kate's many years in the industry. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to that Gabby Rosen podcast, part of the Acast Creator Network. Kate Thornton is my guest this week. She shares the story of how she started out as a journalist and became the first female editor at only 21 of Smash Hits magazine. And when she joined, that was the moment that take that split up. Also, she tells me about when she lent Emma Bunton her bra, stories about Simon Cowell, Will Young, pop idol and X Factor. She talks about working with Antendek and how they said goodbye to PJ and Duncan on the front of Smash Hits magazine.

She talks beautifully about her son and the importance of being there for him, even though she's a very hardworking single mom. Kate is a supportive, nurturing, kind girl, and I do hope you enjoy listening to this as much as I enjoyed spending time with her. Please, can I ask you a favour? Would you mind following and subscribing?

Please, by clicking the follow or subscribe button. This is completely and utterly free, by the way. And you can also rate and review on Apple Podcasts, which is the purple app on your iPhone or iPad. Simply scroll down to the bottom of all of the episodes. I know there have been quite a few now. And you'll see the stars where you can tap and rate

and also please write a review. Thank you so much. Pete Thornton, oh my word, at last I get you to myself on the podcast. It's so lovely to be invited on in such esteemed company. Well, you know, here's the thing. The thing I always say about you and everybody I know who knows you is you are one of the most generous people. Now, you get embarrassed when people say nice things.

I'm going to say it. I'm going to get it over and done with and you can blush, okay? Kate Thornton is a woman's woman, is a man's woman, and is just the most supportive person. She's there for you no matter what, and she will always hold your hand. There we go. Said, done. That's how we're starting. You've put a little tear in my eye with that.

Good, good. But it was meant, no, it's really meant from the heart. Well, do you know what? If that is probably the nicest thing I could hope for anyone to think of me or take away from spending any sort of time with me. So thank you. That's lovely. I will have a little cry. Do you know what's so interesting? In our crazy business, and I call myself a presenter, You're an entrepreneur, a presenter. But I would say, first of all, you're a journalist. And you have, that's why you were so brilliant on loose women. I still stand by, I think you were the best thing on loose women that they've ever had.

Oh, thanks. No, but I do mean, I really mean that. It's not just, I'm not blowing smoke up anywhere. I really am not. But you're a journalist through and through. So when you do your interviews on white wine question time, which is brilliant and be going a very long time now and very successful, When you do those interviews, it's you get those very clever questions in.

So when I listen to you doing your interviews, I can hear journalist. Is that what you would possibly put at the top if somebody was, if you had to describe yourself in five words? Would you say journalist first? Probably broadcaster because of the entertainment aspect of what I do as well. But I think journalism would be in a journalist, underpins probably everything I do, even across shows like X Factor,

because you're still telling stories. And I think, you know, every week when you had to show like an X Factor, for example, you're storyboarding each of those contestants as the host so that the public can follow their story. And you're kind of their narrator. And I think every, I think I approach everything like a story, if I'm honest,

because I've just, you know, from being a child, you know, hiding under my duvet with a tour, so I could carry on reading at night. I've always been obsessed with stories. So I guess it sits at the heart of what I do. It's just instinctive now. I don't even think about it, to be honest. I'm just a nosy parker with a license to chat.

I mean, it's like winning the lottery, really. Because I, you know, as a nosy person who's, and I say nosy, what I mean is curious. You know, it's never gone, it's never grown old with me being interested in people. And that could be, you know, the other day I was on a, I was on a train up to Newcastle and got, you know, chatting with a guy for three, four hours. I'll never see him again. But I know the ins and outs of his life now.

He works in Saudi Arabia. He and his wife had three kids before they were 21. No one said it would last. And now he's a grandfather and I've seen pictures of his kids. I just, I love that. That's wonderful. Yeah, you know, so I guess it stitches its way through every part of my life, even the bits that I'm paid to do. Yeah, I see, that's where I still.

will say journalist because at the core of it all, that's you are interested and interesting. And I think, actually, I believe that everybody has a story and there are a few people that can get those stories out and you are one of them. So it's very interesting. So I've known you a very, very long time and adore you a very long time. And what's so interesting is every time I, so all the research and everything I did yesterday, that all say, Yeah, of course I had to, but to do my research. I know. It was loved.

No, it was all lovely. No, it's awful. No, it's not. I did the same to you when you came on my podcast and you do feel like you're sort of cyber stalking your friends. It's weird. I know. It's really weird. But I all say the same thing, the youngest ever editor of Smash hits.

And that is just a great tag to carry through your life. And actually, I've always said that about you and I knew it about you. I didn't realize how young you really were. Well, 22. You probably think, no, I was. 21. I've got to get my Wikipedia page corrected. I know, but also equally, you know, whilst it was brilliant to be the youngest person in the chair, for me, I know 21, it's ridiculous. The thing I'm most proud of is I was the first woman in that chair. Yes. Wow. Now that to me is

more of a kind of standout moment because it was a magazine that was written for fundamentally teenage girls and it'd been going decades by the time I got there and I couldn't understand why a woman had never been trusted with speaking to readership that she understood and as bonkers as it was to give somebody of 21 that level of responsibility. I think there was also a case in point that actually I was probably as close as you could get to the audience that I was talking to, the reader, by way of very very much. that was legal. But how did that happen?

How did it come about? Because there seems to be a sort of a gap between the lovely stories of you as a child and I've met your daddy, lovely man. But that and then suddenly becoming an editor, as you say, at 21. And an editor means that you were in charge of that magazine. Full stop, the buck ends with you.

I know, right? So what were they thinking? What happened in between? To get that, in order to get that job, I went to journalism school. I went to the London College of Printing. A part of the studies. The part of the course there is that you had to get two work placements, which was really hard

because most people just don't respond. And I managed to get two. And I knew out of those two I had to get a job or I'd have to go home back to Cheltenham in Gloucestershire where there are no publications beyond the local sort of evening newspaper, which I'd already done work experience and bits and pieces for. So I had to make that work. So I ended up working on the Sunday Mirror magazine. And I was literally making tea and jazz handing, put in my hands. up going, please, can I do something? Please, can I write a caption? Can I just get something published before I go? And just really tried to sort of make myself known. And there was a wonderful editor there called Kate Hadley. And she just took to me, I guess, and said to me, you know what?

You're all right. Yeah. I mean, and I said, would you, would you give me a job? And she said, yeah, when you finish your studies, come back. And there'll be a job here for you as an editorial assistant. And I literally finished my exams at lunchtime and was there sort of 20 minutes later. Wow. Going, I'm here. And got promoted up to write in a youth column for the Sunday Mirror because they had nobody young on the title and their readership was dying. And the children of the readers that they were losing were not them picking up the paper and carrying it forward. And it was during that, I mean, literally that lasted about a year.

During that time, I met a guy called Mark Frith, who is now, I think, the end of the end of the paper. editor of the Radio Times. And Mark was editing smash hits. And my column was, you know, sort of reviews, competitions and a big interview with the pop star every week. So we were on the same circuit and he said to me, I'm leaving, you know, I'm going to go and edit Sky Magazine. Do you remember that? Sky Magazine. Oh my word, yes. Yeah. Yeah. And so he went up to do, he went upstairs to do Sky Magazine. He said, but you know what? There's no obvious internal candidates. So why don't you apply? And I was like, well, I've never applied for a job in my life. And he's like, we'll just do it for the interview experience.

It would be good for you. So I did. I went and did like 10 hours of interview, never expecting to get it. Because why would you give somebody that had probably a year of employment a job like that? But they did. Amazing. They saw, see, they saw what we all see now. But it's fantastic that you've got the job.

And then. Well, do you know what? The boss is on that, though. were pretty remarkable. So you'll know these guys. So the guys that formed that sort of, the hierarchy of the publishing, uh, world at E-MAP then, uh, two of the guys, one was Dave Hepworth and the other was Mark Helen and they've both been brilliant presenters of the old grey whistle test, but they bought magazines like, you know, they bought smash hits up through the ranks. Um, they'd edited Q, they put, they launched Q magazine. They really knew what they were

doing. And I don't know what they saw in me, but whatever they saw, I'm to, I'm to the this day, eternally grateful. It's interesting, isn't it? There are teachers and they're the people that give you your first jobs that you will never forget the name of

and you will forever be thankful. Yeah, and you know, yeah, exactly. The moment you said that was like, Mr. Pugh, my English teacher, the only teacher that ever saw anything positive in me. I still communicate with him to this day. We are still in touch. It's a lovely thing.

Oh, that's very special. Can you hear that kind of buzzing? Yes. In the background. Yeah, do you want to just, hold on one second gaps. Let me see. It's my neighbour. I'll just shout out the window. One sec. Dave. Dave. I'm so sorry. Is there any chance that I could have half an hour? Thank you.

I'm loving this. He's jet washing his. We're going to keep that in. I love that. Dave. Dave. Bless Dave. Keep it in. We're going to keep it in. I couldn't live with that, Dave. It brings all my parcels in. He's lovely. And yeah. Yeah. He is lovely. So yeah, and also he's a props man, so he understands things like this. I don't have to explain. Oh, perfect.

Yeah, all right. Was he there before you? Were you there before him? Yeah, he was here years before me. See, check out your neighbors before you move in. There's a really, I'll tell you what else. I'm going to give Dave a shout out here on his hedge management because we share a hedge. And he's turned it into sort of like an ornamental masterpiece.

I'm scared to touch it. If Ben drops his bike into the hedge, I'm like, watch Dave's edge. Oh, go Dave. Well, actually, don't go Dave at the moment. Just wait half an hour. No, don't go, Dave. But so back to smash hits. When, and then, obviously, you know, people talk about Take That and Spice Girls.

Now, a mutual friend the other day told me that you're the one that named the Spice Girls. And is this true? No, sadly not. No. No, it's a complete fallacy. No, it was a really good friend of mine who was the rival editor of the rival magazine at the time, which is very funny now. He's a wonderful man, a borderline popular musical genius, I would say.

So his name's Peter Lorraine, and he was the editor of Top of the Pops magazine, and I kicked myself when we saw that he had come up with these phenomenal names that just stuck with the Spice Girls. And Peter is now a really good friend, remains a great friend, but he puts together. the other girls allowed, the Saturdays, and now he manages, I'm going to get this right, Jesse Ware, all saints, steps. I mean, you know, the list

goes on. It's quite a roster he's got. And yeah, and a thoroughly decent bloke as well. So you, all right, so the Spice Girls is an urban myth, but it's not an urban myth that you, it was when take that split,

that you were then editor of smash it. Oh, do you know, the timing could not have been worse. You know, when you sit there and go, really? Thank you very much. So I'd accepted the job pre-Christmas with the view of starting in January. And literally, I think it was in that timeframe. I know basically by the time I joined the magazine, they'd split up.

And we just had to rinse the demise of take that with memorial issues, you know, reflecting on that kind of, you know, I think. I think they're only together four years. You know, we really, it felt very, it was very emotional, certainly for the readers. So I did as much as I could sort of, you know, literally rinsing the demise of take that. And then setting up all of the solo careers

with different cover stories and interviews with each of the boys. As an if and when, they went out with their own material. And then we hit this kind of dearth of like after, after that, I mean, I think we only got about three months out of that. And then we had this sort of, it was the summer of indie. It was blurvy oasis. It was Euro 96. It was Jarvis flashing Jacko at the Brits.

And all of that was sort of great, but it wasn't what teenage girls wanted to see on the cover of a magazine. And so it was a tricky time trying to navigate how you make Brit Pop work for a 13-year-old in, you know, scumbull. And then suddenly the answer arrived in my office one day. And that was the Spice Girls. I mean, they kicked their way in.

They had Nikki Chapman as their plugger. A pluggler is somebody that promotes acts to magazines, newspapers and TV shows. And they arrived unannounced, jumped on all the desks. I was in a meeting with one of my publishers. It was like some sort of video or some sort of spoof of St Trinians where they just refused to leave until we came out and saw them. And they were so compelling and such a force of nature. And they played the right card with me. They're like, you're the first woman in this chair.

You should be supporting bands like us. And I was like, damn right, I'd like, I will. But they were, they were punchy. They were going, we want a cover. I was like, you've got to get a hit before you get a cover. But I'll definitely give you some support. You get a number one, you got a cover. And they did and we did.

How amazing. And you're still very, I mean, one of your best friends is Emma. Emma. Emma. Yeah. Do you know, that's the other thing. I know, is that funny? It's lovely though, because another thing of all of, you know,

if you look, if you have a look through your whole career, if one were to look, look through your whole career. You've taken all these people with you. And that's what I was saying at the beginning about your support. So you were there and you supported them and you still do. And then you've got your core of girlfriends who you're very, very strong and you're all together and you're backing each other. And isn't it lovely that all these years later, you and Emma are still you know, best friends. It's just wonderful. And there she was coming, running into your office and jumping on the table. I know, right? And in fact, on that first couple,

a shoot. I maybe it was the next one. I can't remember which. But she had a kind of white, lacy little mini dress on. And back then, you couldn't Photoshop and touch things up in the same way with the same ease that we do now. And it was a bit saucy for teenage magazines. We were like, do you have a bra that you could put on with that? Because there's a little bit of a nipple. And she's like, no. And I was like, oh, what size are you? And back then, you know, 34B. I was like, do you want my bra? So I did that shoot bra last so that Emma could. I can tell you my bra. And then a lovely mum, Pauline,

laundered it, wrapped it in tissue, and had it sent back to my office. How lovely is that? Oh, that's so sweet. And I reminded Pauline of that. Because Emma and Jade recently got married, and we just so happened to be five minutes staying up the road on holiday when they did.

So zoomed down to see them. And Pauline was there. And I said to Pauline, do you remember? You know, when you wash my bra and sent it back And she's like, yes, I do. I said, Paulie, I wish I could remember when I had a 34B chest. Because it just won't stop growing in old age. That's the 90s for you.

Everything was different in the 90s. It was different. Well, I think, you know, the funny thing is that, you know, everyone thought that we were raucous and rock and roll. And actually, we were just sharing bras and sent them home to our mom to do with laundry. Yeah, I love that. I love that. And actually, that's, there was, even though you say they were,

jumping on the desk and everything. There was, there was, and people, obviously, my lovely Chris Evans, you know, he'll say, oh, I don't know if I was there when he talks about the famous Oasis gig and, you know, with the film coming out and everything. But the 90s weren't just like that. There was, yeah, but the 90s were also, there was a, I know people are going to go, what? But there was a sort of innocence about it all as well. Oh, I think so.

because we were, we'll think about where we were at, right? It was, so I remember editing smash hits. I didn't have email. I had a mobile phone, but I was the only person in the office with one. And like if somebody had to go out on a shoot and there wasn't going to be a phone that I'd lend them my mobile, but they had to charge it up first. And it had a strap so you could carry it over your shoulder. Oh my God. And if you wanted to ask the call, you had to pull the aerial up.

So you think, you know, 96, as much as the internet was. was a thing it wasn't in wide use at all. You know, we used to send everything like if when we did, when we pushed the magazine to publication, we'd get chromalins back. Chromelins like, you know, big, big pieces of paper where we'd mark them up and send our changes back to the, to the stone, to the press prints. I mean, that just doesn't happen anymore. So I think when you say there was an age of innocence, there really was.

A, I think culture was undergoing, you know, popular culture was undergoing a massive upheaval. So we had dance music kicking off, rave had happened, indie music was imploding, but pop was still wrapped around it in some ways. And then we had, you know, that crazy summer of 96 with Euro-96, Nebworth. And then, of course, you know, I think a year later, Labor came into power, didn't they? So there was, it was seismic change in the country. And to be sort of, you know, in the thick of all of that, helping to tell that story to young people was brilliant, you know.

But then also, and I'm going to stick with that theme of innocence because Pop Idol happened. And then I know you were doing other television as well, and don't try this at home. Which I love, I love a show. Lovely show. You did get up to some crazy things and you were absolutely divine. That's when I first was aware of you.

And I think I, so the first, first time we met, you were doing, don't try this at home, you probably won't remember. And I remember saying to you, because I thought you were brilliant in it. And I remember saying to you, you should be doing more. You should be doing more. You're so good because you're really real and you're enthusiastic and everything. And that was, I don't know what you did. You did. Don't try this at home. That would have been 98, 99. Right. And then suddenly you were doing, not a suddenly, but obviously you did other stuff. but then you were doing X Factor.

And there was a palpable cheer from everyone I knew that a woman was fronting this sort of show and I'm still going to use the word innocence. X Factor then was so innocent. It was full of hope and promise and excitement, not money and fame. It was a different feeling, wasn't it? Well, I mean, all I can do is tell you how it felt on the ground at the time

because obviously I didn't go on to do, I think I did three or four seasons in total. But I, you know, absolutely the, when you talk about the innocence of it all with Pop Idol 100%. I'm really, you know, it was really lovely yesterday. I got this email popped into my inbox from somebody that works for a beauty company now. But she said, Kay, I was in the final 50 on Pop Idol 1. I was like, no way! She's got this really high ranking grown up job now. Wonderful.

So we were chatting. So actually. And I said it did feel like such innocent times because there were no talent scouts out looking to bring people to auditions, which is I think what happened later down the line. You know, literally it was we're auditioning, do you want to turn up? And what was funny with Pop Idol was previous to that. And I think maybe one of the, I got bought in when the show was already six weeks

on its legs, on its feet on air. And it had been so successful. I was brought into the ITV2 spin-off show. And they've never done one before. of you two is still a relatively new channel. So that's how I ended up being in the mix. But previous to that, because pop stars,

the rivals had been such a big thing, I was working on this morning at the time doing, I remember the entertainment coverage. You were doing showbiz stuff, yeah. Yeah, showbiz. So I shared that role with Claudia Winkleman and Mark Wogan, Terry's son. And so I went in.

And what was great then was that you could just go in. And because it was a live show, you could pitch an idea. And if the editor, Nick Bullen, liked it, you'd just put it on there, right? It's great. So it's a great way to test ideas. And I said, why don't we try and do like a this morning boy band? Because that was, you know, everybody was going nuts for pop stars, the rivals and girls on loud come out of that. And, you know, it was, it was very much consuming what people were talking about and watching. So we said,

yeah, yeah, let's do that. Let's, let's do a boy band audition. So I bought in a producer to sit alongside me as a judge. I was judging as sort of the, you know, the former editor of smash hits. And And then I suggested, I said, I've got this guy that's, I think he's funny. He kind of reminds me of Mike from the young ones. He's got Simon Cowell and he's an A&R guy. So he came into the judging on it. And we put this boy band together. And in that boy band were Anthony Costa and Lee Ryan, he went on to Form Blue, two of Lisa Scott

Lee's brothers from steps. And then the fifth person was Will Young. Wow. Yeah. That was prior to pop idol. You're responsible for a hell of a lot. Not really. Don't put me in charge.

No, so that was weird. And then when we did Pop Idol, we knew we had loads and loads of great stories, you know, in terms of like, you know, great contestants, Darius was back. We knew that Gareth was magic in the room because he'd moved all of us. And we got to the last day of auditions

and the very last person to audition in Pop Idol won was Will Young. Wonderful, well. Yeah. So I think that was entirely. Yes, it did feel like very innocent times. I loved working on those shows. They are amongst some of my fondest and happiest working memories, for sure. And, yeah, I mean, look, it went on to...

And you were really good at them. Oh, thank you. See, no, but as somebody who watched them all, I mean, as a viewer, you were really good at them because you got your enthusiasm, but also I'm going back to what I said at the beginning about being a... journalist, you would get people's stories without one, you know, without that, I have to say, I do get bored in every reality show of everybody's, um, heartbreak story, you know, from now them, they do it in the voice and they do the walking up and they say, you know, I'm very sorry that they might have lost a member of the family, but I know my kids who are, well, 20 and 14,

and they were much younger, obviously then. They were littlings and they loved everything about the show. But even they were, oh, no, they realized where. and they were being played. Yeah. Yeah. If it feels contrived, then. It didn't then, though. It really didn't know.

No, it didn't. And I don't know what changed because obviously I, you know, I left after a certain point. But yeah, they were. They were the best of times. And for me, I could never have gone on to do X Factor had I not had two years, literally, working at the feet of the Masters. And that's Antendek. And our relationship had started years previous on smash hits

when we killed PJ and Duncan and reinvented them as an end deck, which of course they were at the deck because that's actually their names. But PJ and Duncan had stopped working and they were like, what's it going to take to update it and, you know, make us cover worthy again? And we were like, well, maybe you just need to sort of get rid of the PJ and Duncan thing. Biker Grove's, you know, done now. And they were starting to do kids' TV where they're getting into lots of trouble

for shaving children's eyebrows off. That's right. Yeah, they did the big breakfast. They presented the big breakfast. And I remember saying to them at the time, why don't you do more presenting? And it was sort of, really? Yeah.

I think they did it for a week. Well, they had their own children's TV shows. I think it was on the BBC. And they had to do this thing called Beat the Barber. And anyway, some kids, they got into trouble for shaving children's eyebrows off. I just thought. And I was like,

You guys are brilliant at that stuff. And they were working out, you know, they were a fork in the road. Do we carry on being sort of pop stars or is there more to us? And we could all see that there was so much more to them. So we said, look, why don't we kill PJ and Duncan and we'll shoot their funeral and then you'll reemerge as Ant and Deck?

And you're gonna be the hosts that they were hosting that. We'd asked them to do their first big sort of live telly event, which was the Smash It's Poll Winners Party to host that. Which all felt... Oh, weren't those great? No, they were the best. They were great. Gongs for worst haircut.

I know you're talking. Which is great. And the best thing was, though, we did this photo shoot. We got this really fancy photographer in, Rankin, who never usually shot for publications like Smash Hits. And that session created not only our cover as we staged this kind of funeral for PJ and Duncan, but it also gave them the imagery they needed for their new album, which was going to be called the cult of Anten Deck.

And all of this was going to kind of come, the album was going to be released around the poll winners. And it was all dovetail to kind of give them, you know, a new identity to their fan base. And we said, you know, you're going to have to look quite different. And at the time, Ant had those sort of hedgehog spikes that Gareth Gates had, you know, that was a very 90s thing. We were like, the spikes, let's get rid of the spikes.

He was like, yeah, I'm on board with that. So he just had a buzz cut. And we said to Deck, what can we do with you to make you look different? And he was like, why don't we send you blonde? like a surfer, but it didn't take so well the colour and he ended up ginger. It wasn't happy. Oh my God.

Not because there's anything wrong with ginger hair and just didn't really suit him. But you see, and you're still friendly with them now. And again, you know, you take all of these people through life. I mean, your little black book is extraordinary. But also it's their real friends. These people are all real friends. I think, you know, probably the greatest lesson I learned from Ant & Deck was,

don't present, just be yourself. Like, they gave me sort of permission to do that because the way they hosted was so relaxed. It was so kind of, you know, big smiles now and everybody over-enunciates. And, you know, they just didn't work like that. And because they set that as an agenda, I suppose, on that show, I just, I just traveled in their slipstream and just love. Learn, learn, learn. So that by the time the X-Factor came around,

I felt like, you know, I was terrified. But I thought, maybe I can do this. See, that's the thing. Absolutely, you could do it. You were so right for it. There was a woman fronting that sort of show. You looked fabulous in it because you were, and I'll still say, you were very real.

And I think that's why everybody took you to their hearts. It was wrong that you didn't carry. on doing it, but that's a whole other conversation. Oh, thank you. And you know how we feel about that. Well, you know how I feel about that. I've always said that. Very publicly, I've said it as well. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. I mean, it was, at the time, you know, I was gutted.

I was like, hang on a minute. I really loved this show. And you said that I, you know, you said that my job was my job for as long as I wanted it. So that was a bit of, but you know what, life lessons, right? That gave me, um, yeah, yeah. That gave me a real crash course in resilience. and also perspective because it felt enormous, but it really wasn't. It was just a job.

And actually, that gave me a much healthier perspective when it came to my work life and not giving heart and soul to everything and making sure that you've got a life as well as a work life. So, you know, not all negative, but ideally, yeah, wouldn't have. I would have rather it didn't end up like that. Yeah, of course. But actually taking the positive,

about something is always hard at the time, but looking back, you know, and we're always ever, ever learning. But then again, loose women, we won't, we won't do too much on loose women because, I mean, you were, but we can. I loved it. Well, well, I just, what I don't want to do is talk about shows that you got and then you didn't do, because I think throughout all of that, you, you, there was never a time that Kate Thornton wasn't doing something. You know, you were radio two, which I still, was it paper cuts? I thought was a brilliant... Yeah, we're doing some more of those actually.

Oh, good! Yeah, we're doing some more, which is great. On Radio 2? Yeah, I'm really excited. Good. That was a special. That was a very, very, very special show. And that, for me, after, after loose women, it just all of that,

there is still a buzz that Kate Thornton is the girl that knows. that you have a knowledge beyond your years, which obviously those people saw when you were 21 being editor. You know, you do have a knowledge over your years. I think I was always a little bit sort of old for my years when I was younger. I might have caught up with myself now. But no, listen, paper. I think, you know, fundamentally, much like yourself, I'm freelance, right?

So you're always out there trying to pitch for the work that you love. Well, I certainly was. not quite as out there pitching as I used to be. But for me, paper cuts was the show that I was passionate about. And Radio 2, I mean, it took me six years to get that commissioned. And actually, in the end, yes, six years of them going, we like it, but we haven't got a slot for it right now. And I felt like, you know, Radio 4's got Desert Island discs.

Does Radio 2 have a sort of, you know, a home for those big interview pieces? and could I, you know, could I pitch an idea for that really? And that's what paper cuts was. Paper Cuts is when you present somebody with their life as reported and ask them to kind of, you know, juxtapose that with their own take on it. So it's fascinating and I love doing it. And we've done some great guests over the years. And in the end, I actually was talking to, everything goes full circle, doesn't it?

So one night I was out. at some sort of party, and I was with And then deck. And we were talking about formats and ideas. And, you know, the boys are real businessmen. And they are hugely involved in all of the, I mean, like Saturday on Takeaways is pretty much them as an ideas bank, you know. And they're great at formats. And they've got a huge, they've got a really smart, sharp tele radar, I think. So we were talking about ideas.

And I mentioned paper cuts. And they were like, that's amazing. You've got to make that. I said, oh, you know, every year, Radio 2 sort of go, yeah, we really like it, but there's no room in the schedules this year, bring it back on the next commissioning round, which I always did. I never let it go. And they were like, nah, you've got to make this. Because once they hear it, it's going to be great. And they did my pilot for me and gave up their time.

They said, they said, come to our house. They didn't live together, but went around to one of theirs, set up a couple of microphones and just. recorded a demo that got me the commission. So I took it into radio too and said, you've got to listen to this. And they listened to it and went, can we put it out on Christmas Day? And I said, no, it's just a pilot,

but you can have a series. And that's what we did. Yeah. Oh, fantastic. I'm so pleased they're going to be more because it is so good. But on top of all of that. Thank you.

But you know what? A massive respect to Anton Deck, because you know what? They really don't need to find time to help someone like me in that way. But they do, and that's amazing. Yeah, and they're just, to you, they're just regular guys because they're your mates. But, but, and that's what's the special thing between you

and all the other people that I was saying. But also, you're also an entrepreneur. So you have, you know, you have a jewelry range that's now available in Next. Yeah, so yeah, the jewellies available on Next, but it's also going into Very and will hopefully live with Debenhams as well. Oh my word. So, this is fantastic.

Yeah, that's, that's been super. exciting and was wonderful to sort of learn a new skill in my late 40s, you know, learn how to do something that I had a load of interest in, but absolutely no skills. And I literally went to school and studied alongside a design team for six months working up parties before I committed to doing the range because I just thought otherwise it's just really insulting to people that have actually studied this as a trade. So that I wanted to come at it to be in a way that was at least. least slightly informed.

And yeah, thank goodness, it's really worked. And it goes from strength to strength. So yeah, I launched that on the podcast at the same time and thought, right, let's see if either of these things will work. And they both have, which is just lovely. Huge success for both. But also now you've got scarves. You've also got royalty TV.

Is it Amazon that that's on? So, so yeah, the Royal Bee is, this is an unexpected treat. So when Harry and Megan got married, I did the coverage as a live stream for Yahoo worldwide. And we did this five-hour broadcast and literally from a conference room off Tottencourt Road. And we had a hoot doing it. It was brilliant. I had brilliant people on like Vanessa Feltz and Reverend Kate Botley. And we did, you know, this huge five-hour run. And I didn't know if anybody would watch. And when we got off that, we'd had 28 million views, which is crazy. I know, right?

Wow. So then we thought, there's gold. It's kind of like there's gold in them hills. So that sort of switched beyond to our royal family and the history of the royal family and how much it informs so much of what is Great Britain and the Commonwealth and everything else. So yes, so then I was approached by my old boss from this morning who agreed to do the boy band search with me all their shit. ago again, 360. And he said, look, I've got this, he's a channel that he runs called True Royalty and he wanted to do a sort of a new show about all things that are happening

within the royal family as well as looking back at the sort of history of them and the social history that sits around it. And I said, it sounds great, let's do it. Not thinking it would do as well as it's gone on to do. So Amazon Prime have signed it, which is amazing and it's getting really good numbers in America. I don't think you can get it on Amazon Prime here, but in States it's um yeah it's doing really good so i mean who knew oh no well i'm not surprised at all and is there a chance that you'll go over and do more stuff in the states as it's doing so well in america would you take you and ben over there oh do you know what i almost did that about i can't remember how many years ago now a little while back he was still at primary school so yeah

it would have been six or seven years ago but yeah out of nowhere um i was asked to go and do a talk show in the States. Like a panel show, I think they'd seen my work on loose women. This was not long after I'd left loose women. And we're like, look, we think, you know, I was like, is this a wind up? I actually text on and deck going, is this like some sort of set up for takeaway, you're taking the piss? It wasn't. And, um, yeah, I was, I thought I was, yeah, it was only the visa issues that stopped me going. And then, you know, as they do in the States, they, you know, you have to sign up forever to do a show. It's five years.

It's five years, yeah. And it meant moving us to the other side, you know, the Atlantic. And my mom and dad agreed to come with me to help with my son. Oh my God. Oh my God. And we were like, okay, well, if we're going to do this, this could be fun. It was LA. I've got lots of friends in LA.

It's like, we can make this work. This could be really, this could be a real adventure. And then it all fell down on VIII. visas. Oh, no. And then the show went to air without me and I think was cancelled off to six episodes. And so you go, oh, okay, maybe great after all that I didn't move my entire life to America for six weeks.

Because that's the nature of this funny old business that we work in, Gabs, as you know. Yeah. Well, yeah. So I almost did. And interestingly, you know, when I was doing X Factor, there was always the push of, do you want to go to L.A. and do some meetings. And I was like, no. I actually don't.

I love my job here. I love my life here. Like, why be greedy for more? This is, like, if this is ever as good as it gets, this is great. So I just didn't have the appetite then. But it also be hard now because Ben, Ben is a teenager and, um, oh, listen, I don't think they're all sat there going, we need a 48 year old, you know. Why not?

Why not? Well, you're absolutely right. Why not? And actually, I think in the States, they have. have a far greater appetite to employ women of our age and beyond than they do here. Yes, they do. Yes, so back to Ben. So you have a teenage boy.

And you two, you know, you have a great relationship and he's, he just looks like such a good boy. And I was speaking to a mutual friend a few months ago. I think I told you when we walked in lockdown that our mutual friends said, just Ben's just such a lovely kid. And I thought that's what you always want to hear about your offspring. He's just a lovely kid. And I just thought that's such a, that's great. That's what you want to hear.

Yeah, you know what? He is a lovely kid. And he is, yeah, he's my greatest achievement in life. And the relationship we have is something I am so proud of. And as we sort of enter into his teenagers, now I really hope I can preserve that. Because if he's anything like I was as a teenager, you know, pray for me. But he is, and I think honestly, a hot mess, nightmare. The relationship we have is probably quite intense because it's always just been the two of us.

Well, since he was not even two, it's just been the two of us. And you know what? You know, you realize when you become a parent, as Aidan, you'll probably be nodding along, agreeing with this. You just don't know what kind of parent you're going to be. And you don't get taught. No, they teach you how to give birth. And that's it. And then it just falls off a cliff after that.

And you're like, um, sorry, what? Hello. Anyone. And you go home with this baby and like, shit. But you've just got to kind of, you know, you got to figure it out as you go along. And it's instincts, I suppose, that really drive you. It's like you have to do what's right for you. And I have, my 13 years of raising that boy have been my greatest pleasure.

and privilege and of, yeah, here's everything to be. He's my heart, my soul. I would say to him, he kind of rolls his eyes and now, I say, you are all the colors in my rainbow. Oh, oh. Yeah, you'll get a lot of eye rolling. He's 13, so talk to me in a year's time and see if he's still as lovely.

Good luck with the teenage years. My big girl is through all of that now. And it is extraordinary. When you're right in the middle of it, you think, oh my God. when they come through the other end, it's, hello, girl, there you are. There you are.

Welcome back. And I think, you know, when you used to think back to the early stages, early phases of parenting, you know, my mantra was, it's just a phase. Everything's a phase. In three months' time, this will have changed because kids develop and change. And, you know, the challenges are addressed and then you move on to the next set of challenges and everything is momentary. And the same with teenagers.

It's just, yeah, they, I mean, the difference is you can't put them to bed at 7 o'clock. Oh my God. Tell me about it. I want to watch. I want to catch up with this thing that we're watching at the moment. And my youngest isn't interested. And I'm sort of sitting there drumming.

My fingers going, just go to bed. Go to bed. Go to bed. Because we don't have a TV in her room. It's just something. We don't want her to have a TV in her room. So we sit down there. It's all family time as well because we sit and watch shows together.

And I'm drumming. Okay. Do you want to go to bed early? Go on. Go on. Off you go. Off you go. No, we won't.

I know. I know. Seven o'clock bedtime. Yeah. So do you remember those days? Yes. Yes, I do. Lifetime again.

Thank you for all the lovely kind words about Ben. That's really, really sweet of you. And yeah. He must be very proud of his mum. He's aware of what you do. And I think it's a great, I think it's great for kids to see working moms. I mean, it's so very different two generations ago

that kids weren't brought up with that. And it all shifted. I mean, my mom worked. and I've worked from the day, I mean the day, I'm 15 and my kids know that I've always worked. And they know that it's important to me. And you, you seem to have that work life balance perfectly. And he says, all right, look, my mum, she's done it on her own. She's, she works, but she's always there for me.

That says to me, you've got the balance. Well, I think, oh, God, I tell you what, it's been a struggle over the years. Because the one thing I didn't ever do was, was, and not there's anything wrong with hiring help or having a nanny. It just didn't, it just wasn't what I wanted to do. And I deliberately dialed down my work certainly for the first four or five years because I just thought he's probably going to be my only child. I was, you know, I was, I was, I was single by the time he was two, by the time you're thinking of going again. So that wasn't really an option. If he is my only child, I want to be here for all of these moments, not chasing around doing TV shows and not being here. So I made,

some big decisions around what I would and wouldn't do work-wise. And thank God I did. You know, I'm so grateful that I had that time with him. And I put him first. And really, it's only in recent years, I've sort of dulled the work back up again. Because I always had to, I wanted the flexibility of being able to say, so when a job would come in, I would just say to my agent, that's great. But could you make sure that I can get back in time to pick up from after-school club?

and, you know, I can start, but only once I've dropped him at breakfast club, and that's how it worked for a long time. And now it's a lot easier because, you know, he's far more independent. But for a long time, it was a real juggle. And the only way I could make it work was because I was lucky enough to be able to sort of say, I'm going to work less. Yeah. But thank God I did.

I wouldn't have changed it for anything. Do you know what? You are a joy. You're a, you're a real nurturer as well. That's another thing. I think you like to nurture a friendship. Yeah, you nurture friendships. You nurture your businesses.

You're a, yeah, you're a nurturer. Okay, so we always ask on this podcast, what makes you belly laugh? I know you can giggle. I've seen you cry laughing. Sarcasm. Is that it? Oh my God. Just somebody's super sarcastic.

Ideally, their sarcasm directed in. entirely at me. The idea of somebody shredding me with sarcasm is almost sexy. I love it. I really do. The more sarcastic the better. Yeah. Literally, that is the way into my heart is literally to shred me with sarcasm.

And literally from the one of the first phrases Ben used to say to me, he could never say sarcastic. But he's obviously been raised on sarcasm. He's just to say, Mom, stop being so startastic. Oh bless. You should have that on a t-shirt. Yeah, Star-Tastic. You should do that. You know your t-shirts that you do with... Yeah, with the lips. Read my lips.

Yes. You should put and put stars on it and say Star-Tastatic. Or just sarcastic one-liners. Even better. Yes. Oh, my God. Listen, good luck with everything you do. Gap's thank you. And carry on being this nurturing, strong, journalistic, Broadcaster mum. Re-dewy-making, mum.

Everything. All of it. Well, you know, it's just, as you go through life now, I'm just sort of, I've decided just to say yes to the stuff that interests me, and I don't care if it fits or not, you know? And actually, that's quite liberating. So who knows, in the year's time, I might have another few things to add to that list.

Or I might not. Well, also, you're doing your live shows. You're going around the country doing live chats and lunches. you've got your live shows at the Leicester Square Theatre. So you're open to say yes, but also you will still say no. And that's the other thing that's very powerful. I think the power of no is actually informs all of the great yeses. Yeah, for sure.

So you need that on a T-shirt as well. Kate Thornton, I absolutely adore you. Thank you, my gorgeous girl. Oh, Gavs, thank you. Thank you. Coming up next week, the wonderfully funny Nick Mohamed, who of course is Nathan. Ted Lassow. That Gabby Roslin podcast is proudly produced by cameo productions and music by

Beth McCari. Could you please tap the follow or subscribe button? And thank you so much for your amazing reviews. We honestly read every single one of them and they mean the world to us. Thank you so much for listening.