That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Katie Piper

Episode Date: July 21, 2026

Gaby welcomes model, writer, and activist Katie Piper to the pod! 'One of the most important voices today' says Gaby - who believes we should all listen to Katie and her wisdom...and has been, for 18 years (which is the first time they met!)Pain transformed Katie's life (negatively for a long time after a horrendous acid attack) but has also given her purpose and direction and a joyful attitude towards life. We hope you enjoy this powerful and empowering conversation - and remember you can watch all our episodes on YouTube (and we'd love you to follow and subscribe there so you never miss an episode) Here's a little more about the book:In 'Still Beautiful' bestselling author, broadcaster and charity campaigner, Katie Piper challenges deeply ingrained societal thinking around beauty and ageing, and empowers women to embrace the process of getting older.When a life-threatening acid-attack left Katie physically and visibly scarred at just 24, her approach to ageing was irrevocably changed. Now in her early forties, and at an age she wasn’t certain she would reach in the early days of her recovery, Katie reflects on what it means to age ‘well’ in a world that places so much expectation on how women look. She wants to encourage women of all ages to embrace who they are and to question the reasons why we may not feel comfortable with our ageing bodies.

Katie Piper, on the front of your book, I've said one of the most important voices today. And I absolutely mean that. Every single word of that, you were a voice of our generation. Oh, you're always so good to me and you're so good to me for 18 years. I met you 18 years ago. I remember. I remember it so well. But I really, really mean it.

You can change the way people think. You can change the way people feel. And obviously we all learn lessons, we all learn lessons. But whatever lessons they are, we need to listen to you. Well, I think the first lesson for myself was knowing I could change the way I think and feel actually. And I do think that everybody at some point in life will have that opportunity, usually through pain, not through pleasure. Well, sometimes you can get it through pleasure. If you're appreciative and grateful.

But how do you get the perspective of the pleasure if you haven't had the pain? You know, it's hard to... I suppose pain is different for everybody. If people think of pain for you, it's very different than it would be for somebody who may have gone through their parents divorcing and they still are. You know, whatever it is. Yeah. Pain is a difficult word to describe, isn't it? It's a misleading word because it is a spectrum.

And I think if you're empathetic, you don't devalue anybody's pain. Absolutely. You know it's relevant. But I suppose it's a big word for me because pain did transform my life and negatively for a long time. And then when I learned how to use pain and pleasure actually, use pleasure in the right amount, it stopped using me, you know. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. What a powerful thing to be able to say about yourself?

Yeah. A long time. time wasn't sort of like this epiphany overnight thing. Well it never means really. No, but that was transformative for me and I hate using the expression that it gave me purpose because I always think then that attributes other people to your sort of successes and I don't think it gave me purpose but it introduced me which is something I know you talk about is acts of service. I'm really it's quite an empty life of acts of service so there's some kind of purpose from that painful moment I space, yeah. Do you, I mean, your book still beautiful. I was very lucky to read it before it came

out and I absolutely loved it and it because it is about, I mean exactly what it says, that embracing age with power and purpose. But it is about being happy in yourself and learning to be content and happy and joyful, which is one of the things. Obviously I talk about joy. But it's about it's about growing older and just thinking, okay, okay. I don't need to worry about what so-and-so thinks of me. You know, it's those things that we learn, and I wish I'd known earlier. Yeah, and also being honest about the conversation. I mean, even the title's a bit cheeky, right, still beautiful,

because people still, that's what they do when they greet me and talk to me. They go, oh, you're still beautiful. And I think, oh, so we're still, that's still important, that we're still grading it by that. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, and it's like, so all these 18, years ago, when the public first come to hear about me from being burnt, I got this message that beauty is one of the most powerful tools a woman can possess, especially a young woman, right? If you are beautiful, you are powerful, you are worth listening to, you can get married,

you can do all these things. And so that was half of the battle when everything changed for me out of my control, you know, what am I going to do now? And then after a while, I thought, I'm going to do anything I want. That's what I'm going to do now. You know, it's going to be a slightly different sort of less stores are open and some are closed and it's going to be a different route but I'm still going to do whatever I want to do and then when I first started writing that book I mean as you'll know it takes a couple of years to get publishers to agree and then you sort of do your drafts and your manuscripts and I was actually turning 40 and again it was this old kind of messaging that I was getting more more from women actually female journalists that would say to me I'd be doing

an interview about, I don't know, I'll be promoting a beauty product and I'm 39 and they'd say you've got a really big birthday coming up this year. Do you mind if we talk about it? Oh, don't. Don't. It's my absolute bug bet because, and I say this to all journalists, they always write my age. I'd say, I'm 33 every birthday. I'm really privileged to be alive. My mum died young. My friends died. Some of my dearest friends died very young. And I get so frustrated when they say that, they say, oh, aren't you? you happy for your age, aren't you? Yeah. And it's just take away the for my age and don't print my age. It's not because I'm ashamed. I'm proud. I'm 33 every birthday because that's the number. And that's it.

Yeah. And it's like... Stop with the age. I can't believe they did that to you. Well, as I was turning 40, and sorry to bring this off at this, is emotional for you. But Deborah James was dying as I was turning 40. And I was really following that story. Her mom reminded me of my mom.

My mom's a hospital mom that has slept on the floor, been in the room all the time. And I was just like, this is so trivial and embarrassing. You know, how am I going to conduct an interview about, oh, I'm 39? It's so young being 39, right? And then I realized it's that same message of actually, what the second most powerful thing a woman can be is youthful. You must be young. And if you are old, please look young and act young and dress young. And I was just like, these are the same people that know that living for me is an absolute bonus.

I have always fought to live, right? So I'm definitely not feeling negative about doing the opposite. it to dying. And then, you know, when you see these self-help books on aging in particular, they give us advice on how to age well or how to look like we haven't aged. And that's not what this book's about. This book isn't giving you any answers or any solutions about how to be younger in any way. It's actually telling you, if you ever felt not good enough, if you ever felt like you didn't meet the criteria or fit in, you were never the problem, you were never, ever the problem. But look at who made you feel that way. They often are selling you the solution.

And it's actually about trying to keep women trapped where they need to be young, they need to be beautiful. Otherwise, they have nothing or bring anything to the table. For me, what's sadness to me about everything that you said is that it's very often that it's women. It's very often female journalists. It's very often women in work who are, I mean, this happened to somebody I know. It happened to me where a woman said many years ago, she said, oh, you're just too old to do that. Yeah, they do say that you're face in the industry. What?

Yeah. What? I'm very lucky that I'm still going. But it was extraordinary. And then the, but why is that from a woman? And it's not about you. It's always about them. Yeah.

And also it's not true because now we have social media platforms. We get to see our audience and the people that relate to us. And guess what? 20 year olds can relate to 40 year olds. They can find what they say quite interesting. You don't need to be the age of somebody for them to consume. your content. I had this conversation last week with some people who we were talking about how I don't

think it's right to make content, television, radio, whatever, and think I'm making this for 16 to 24 year old. Yeah. I've got girls who fit in exactly those ages. Yes. And they do not want to see 16 to 24 year olds. They're really happy with seeing a person of any age. Any age.

so long as the messaging is the message. I mean, I used to like Bruce Forsyfe, but I wasn't 80. Yeah, I was probably school age. It's absolute madness. Yeah, and it's hard because also for me, life really sort of got back together when I started living maybe in my 30s. So here I am going to 39.

I'm like, I've only had nine years. That was a short sort of, you know, I feel a bit like a cat where it's all getting separated. But yeah, I felt really passionate about, well, I live quite an unusual life. You know, most women, when they go through the ageing, It's gradual. They see things. Self-esteem will change.

Confidence will change. But I just don't feel like that because I had such an unusual path where I've realized the fragility of life. Everything did change really quickly in a few seconds. I've had wrinkles since I was 24 because of the skin graft, right? So I suppose it's a gift that I have. And I think this was my gift back to people to say. That's just amazing.

Yeah. Isn't it interesting, though, that people still worry so much about what somebody else thinks or or I mean I always say to people when you look in the mirror instead of going oh I want the you know we all we everybody does it listen what he guilty over here yeah yeah but smile at yourself yeah yeah I think compassion is key and also like I'm a realist I'm not going to sit here and say to people it doesn't matter if you age that's a lie it does matter if you age in certain industries it is harder to date when you're older that the truth is we do live in an ageist society but also what's exciting

is we have the power to change it collectively, but it needs a big group of us. It needs voices. It needs people to keep showing up consistently because we're in a time where people power and people pressure is the best currency, right? We all have a platform. We all have a voice. And I try to use my voice for good, for advocacy, and it is important to me. But, you know, I have my faults too. You know, you mentioned about self-compassion. I would say I can be very mean to myself. Really? Yeah, I think so. You know, I used to think I was sort of disciplined and motivated, but sometimes I think I'm like a horrible boss to me, you know.

Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. And I think maybe it's having daughters and thinking, God, if I was their boss and being like this to them, I'd be really unhappy with that kind of treatment. So why do I treat myself like that? But I'm trying at the moment to connect with, like I've gone through lots of changes in the last few years. And realizing the one person that's always been there for me is me. You know, she has been through everything. I mean, you've gone through more than most people have in 20 lifetimes.

Yeah, it does feel like that. But then so I should really trust me and know that I can count on her to sort of pull through. Do you trust you? I think I've found this sort of era now. I'm going to be 43 this year. I've definitely noticed I've probably got hormonal changes. And I think it does affect your judgment and you're confident. Yeah, a little bit of self-doubt.

And it's not in the obvious ways. It's nothing to do with my appearance or what happened to me. It's just sometimes you get a little bit of shaken from the core. Then something good happens to remind you who you are and what you're capable of. But it just comes a bit wobbly sometimes. Do you, does it get to a stage where, because obviously everybody knows who you, well, not the whole world. But everybody that we can think of knows who you are, knows your story. Does it ever get a time where you want to just go, ah, this is me.

I'm not my story. Because to me, you're not your story, you're you. I don't think of you as your story. Does that make sense? Yeah. I mean that as a compliment. No, I know what you mean. And it's a bit of a weird one because obviously you choose to be in the public eye and you can choose not to be.

You can encourage it or, you know, take a step back. So I think there's a lot of privileges that come with it. You know, even just having a subject like this that you want to write about and people buying the book and saying we want to hear about it too. So that is an exchange of services and goods. And I think you have to respect. that when people come up to you and talk to you. Oh no, that's lovely. Yeah.

And you chat to everybody. Yeah, because I like talking to people. I like talking to people and I also think I'm not a singer. I'm not an actress. I am somebody that has shared, you know, trauma and actually majority of people that come up to me, it will be because of that connection. And who am I to shut somebody down when it could be their first ever time talking about that?

Their first ever time, even just giving an exchange of a nod when we both know each other has survived something. So I would never shut people down like that. But I do think there's a, there's an, I must be honest, there's a really draining side to that as well. And it's really hard. And there's a role that you don't apply for that everyone automatically gives you of being on a pedestal, being inspiring, being a role model. And I think that's quite hard in cancel culture because you're not going to not do something wrong or something that's not. Yeah, it's hard.

And I had a whole life before this life, you know. And I think once you have a, whether you call it a visible difference, or a disability, you are seen as quite wholesome, you know, that's a comfortable place. That's interesting. Yeah, so you would never be seen as something that is sexual. You wouldn't be seen as somebody that swears. It's like where do we feel comfortable with disability and what's palatable? So it's like, I believe in role models.

I have people that are role models to me that they didn't ask to be. I don't think women need perfection in their role models. I think they need honesty. I was going to say real. Yeah. So in this day and age, I think, well,

when do I'll get cancelled? Because I'm not inspirational and perfect. You're not going to be cancelled. But it's a scary pedestal. But you're not going to be cancelled because you're just, you give. You're a real giver.

But it's the job I never replied for. I know. But it is, it's probably, I mean, I would say, without a doubt, that you were like this

and you didn't know you were like this before. Maybe. And it might not be the job that you, chose beforehand, but this is what you were meant to do. I mean, I think that we're very lucky to wake up each day and what we're supposed to do. We have a reason for being here. I'm a, you know, I do believe in all of those things. I'm like, you do have a reason for being here.

I really relate to, and there's something that you do that it's just what I do, and I really relate to it when you go for your, you know, you walk to work and you see nature and you take little pictures. And that's my day, every day. I walk everywhere I can. I've also got a dog, so I've gone my dog walks. and I just stop and look at things sometimes I take a picture

sometimes I just look at them smell and touch them because it's just I did that with some Jasmine earlier I was walking along and there was a beautiful bush of Jasmine and I just stood there

with my head in it just stood I didn't take a picture I didn't yeah yeah yeah I just was there for the moment and there was a builder opposite and he said you're all right Gabby said yes come and smell it

and he came over and he smelt it said I've never thought of doing that and you made him put down his tools and you made him be in that moment yeah Jasmine. And it's just such a great gift. And maybe people understand it more post lockdown and COVID, because you were denied of basic stuff. But if you've ever been denied of that kind of stuff, you do realize as cliche as it is. Like that is, some of this stuff in life is the glue, right? And then that is like the sort of bits between it. But I suppose for everyone else, they're late for work. It's a fleeting moment. But you can still do it. I know. I know. You can still do it. You can just take that moment to listen. That's. Just that. That was one second of silence. It's just that moment.

Sometimes I think I'm a bit crazy because I'll do things like... Crazy's good. I like crazy. I'll go running. Sometimes it's just no headphones, no phone. Because I just don't want everyone texting me and things like that. And I don't always need music and stuff. In fact, I nearly quit music because I just listen to podcasts now. I don't listen to much music.

As long as I will verse in Citi as running and I don't mean sadness. I don't know if it's just like a release, overwhelm or actually joy. It's a release. Yeah. And it's like for other people, that's a shower or that's a phone call or it's a biscuit or a cup of coffee but sometimes that just happens to me and I don't I feel a bit indifferent it's a bit of a strange feeling but like I needed it yeah but that's good and it's really good to let go yeah which is what you too you talk

about you talk about letting go of those things and feeling that we all need to do it we all need to we all need to let go of things that we hold on to every you know I go on about living in the moment. But it's very difficult for a lot of people because you do think of the past. You do worry about what's going to have. Of course, we all worry. How are you going to pay the mortgage? All of those things. Yeah. How am I going to pick up the kids in time? Whatever it is, the big worry, the little worry, the huge worry. But it's about living in the now. And I get that you live in the now. Yeah, I feel like I do because I think we're sort of punished into living into the future because we have to economically, right? We have to plan for the future. We have to provide. We have to

work out if we're going to still be in our house by next year. And I suppose, like, very, it sounds a bit selfish, but that got taken away from me where I went to live with mum and dad as an adult. And very kindly, they said, you don't have to pay rent. You just have to get better. And you have to get independent. So it was tough love where they were like, you can stay here for a while, but not forever. And you must get a job. And previously, I'm from a very small town in Hampshire. When I was at college, I'd worked at Tesco. So my dad was like, maybe make a goal to go back to Tesco when you're signed off medically and you can work your way up to have a career as a section manager or do something like that, right? So they were like very clear that I had to

get an income somehow. And I just feel that that kind of not having to pay rent, not having to row, I just had to do physio, do counselling, go for walks, try and look people in the eye, try and make new friends, try to get rid of anger. Which was huge. It was a full-time job, right? That was huge. And then mum and dad would pay for the prescriptions, pay for the hospital parking. It sort of unburdened me of that sort of like capitalist society and I found myself, you know, and I never ever, you know, when I think about my career, it was never about seeking fame or money. It definitely was before I was burnt. That's what I wanted to do. I wanted to work in telly, wanted to be a model. But after what happened to me, you know, my very first book that I wrote

because I didn't have a big profile, it wasn't financially viable the book deal I had, but I wrote it anyway for closure. And then, because that became Sunday Times bestseller, Then the money followed where I could change publishers and negotiate deals. So it was a real lesson of it is true not to follow and chase money, which for some people will piss them off because I'm like, well, that's all right for you. But I'm like, no, I didn't follow and chase money when I didn't have any either. And then it came through the passion-led staff monetised. Yes, but also money doesn't make happiness.

I remember talking to a man at a charity event, and I was sitting next to him, and he had a lot of money. And he was unbelievably generous to this charity. And his big thing was giving to all charities. He was a lovely man. And he just very quietly, before I went back up to host it, he said, do you know what? Just because I've got money, I can give it away.

That's the happy part. The rest of it doesn't make me happy. And I just remember taking his arm and I said, you're not happy. He said, no. I believe that. And I thought it would make me happy. That's why I give it away. He was a lovely, lovely, lovely man.

He still is, I'm sure. But, you know, it's, and I think everybody wants fame and money, and it doesn't make. It's so interesting. Because the whole thing of, you know, when I set up my Burns charity, there was the sort of practical, logistical side of providing rehab, scar management. There was a sort of well-being side of. The foundation. Yeah. And, you know, the social impact of helping people return to work, return to relationships.

But unknowingly, what it did is it opened me up to all of these people. You know, you go and meet major donors. You go to these. fancy black tie balls and you meet people that have stuff in buckets right and they are so lost and not to say they're not good people but they're i say also they attract a lot of bad people around them who are using them so they never really that's what that's what he was saying yeah that's exactly it's not like they're bad people actually it's the fact that they they find it hard to get authenticity um and they're good people because they're giving to charity

but it's that reminder of if you spend your whole life seeking this when you get there you still might never arrive. And I think that is quite a sobering thing for me that I'm around two sort of worlds in my charity, the major donor world, and then I'm around the patient world where it was just a normal day. Everyone wakes up and it's just a normal day till it wasn't, right?

It's the girl that straightened her hair. They blew up in her face, the brave as flammable, and she was a ball of fire. It's the dad that drove up the motorway to work and got in a pile up and got trapped in a burning car. It was always just a normal day. So I meet those two ends of the spectrum. And they both have their battles.

And actually they both need each other. Yes, they really do. There's a wonderful little girl who we both know, who always, whenever she contacts me and she writes joke books, all sorts of things, and she's just lovely. I won't name her here because she's very young girl. But she always, she loves it if I ever repost something of yours. I know who you mean.

Yeah, yeah. And she always messages me. She says, Gabby, I love that you love Katie too. And what's so lovely is, it's not that she looks up to you, but she thinks, I'm going to be okay. Yeah. Because Katie's okay. And she is going to be okay. That's true.

She's such an amazing. Yeah, I mean, she's quite a dynamic person. She really is. Yeah, she's a doer, she's a giver. But also she's making an impact, you know, her life's been really difficult. And sometimes you can't change aspects of that. But selflessly, selflessly, what she's done is made life less difficult for the people coming up behind her, which I, I, I think that is the true word of inspiring, isn't it, saying,

Yes. I can't change this, but maybe I can for the next gen. Which is what you do. Well, you do, you do. You have to accept that. Yeah. I'm not going to use the word inspiring because you don't like it. Yeah.

But you do because she's only a little girl. Yeah. You've helped her. And, I mean, hearing her parents say that when they walk down the street, the faces that people pull. Yeah. It just sickens me. I mean.

There's so much fear, isn't there, about what we don't understand? But I mean, I hope in my heart that somebody that says something horrible to you or somebody says something horrible to her or to anybody that has anything that's different to what they expect, I hope that they don't realize how much hurt they're giving. Yeah. Does that make sense? And I don't know if they do, but what living with something where you never have a day off has really taught me that fear. is so powerful and fear really grips some people and it changes all their actions, their interactions. But I don't know. I mean, I feel like not that I want to talk about politics, but I feel like in political landscapes at the moment, you are seeing fear and when

people are frightened how that you can have known them for years. And all of a sudden they're acting in a certain way because they are fearful. And, you know, that's what's happened to me as a young girl losing my beauty being disfigured, as a midlife woman getting older, but always on the inside thinking, I'm the same person who you used to receive in such a different way. What is it about me that's making you fearful now that you either receive me in a different way or you totally reject me? You know, it's really interesting if you do that work. Because when I think about the stuff that I'm fearful of, I think I understand why now. And I think I can like sit with it and process it and not reject it and try and sort of do something in that.

I mean, for me, all these cliches that people talk about, about, you know, discomfort being the most transformative place, I do subscribe to that. And I do think I've done some of my best things being uncomfortable. But you do get to the point where you're like, can I have a bit of comfort now? Can I have a bit of luxury? Yeah. I'd like a little bit of comfort. I don't want to stay in the trenches. Yeah.

But you do it. You really, I'm going to go back to what I said about being a voice of today. I think you're a voice of a generation. And I think a really important voice as well. but there's the other side of you. You're a mum. Yeah, yeah. You're just a regular person at home.

Yeah. A husband and you've got two kids and you're a mum. Yeah. And that's another part that you also, I like that you keep that separate. I like that you cover their faces. I like that that's your life. You know, that life is important. Yeah.

Although I liked it when you showed your tummy. Oh, yeah. And you went, no, look, it's skin. It's skin. I just, yes. Well, it's just, all of us have. it. You know, it's normal. Yeah. But you don't shy away from things, but you also keep some things private. And that's important as well. Because everything is so very public with you. Yeah.

You all know so much about you that I like that you keep a bit back. Maybe I, maybe it's a control thing for me because I can't hide this anyway, even if I wanted to opt out. You know, the gig is up really for that, right? So I do like to have control and like autonomy over my body, over my life in many other ways. And I think the decision. not to sort of show my children. And I've gone to great lengths to give my children a private life where they have different surnames to me. They actually look different because their heritage is part Jamaican, part British. It's not that I look down on people that show their kids on social or think that they shouldn't, you know. I'm not judging anybody. But I'm talking about you because everything's so public. Yeah. It's quite nice to keep some back. And it works for some people, but I know it wouldn't work for us and our family. And it's really funny that up until this

point, I've been able to really control that nicely. Well, now I've got a child in secondary school. Who hates me? Oh, yeah. You get them back at around 19. They sort of come back and they're, hi. There's that weird thing, isn't there? That's night, love you.

And then the morning, what? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, she's just pushing back where she wants to be on TikTok. She doesn't want me to like she has this, it's not social media, but she has this account where they share dance videos and she doesn't want me to put comments or be associated. She doesn't want me to walk next to her. She doesn't want me to use her first name in a

crowded space. Yeah, no, no, no. I get that. Yeah. That's teenage. Teenagers. Yeah, it's hard. And we were all like that. Wouldn't you like that a bit? Yeah, I was terrible and I definitely never let you get the child that you deserve, right? I mean, I was a nightmare for my poor mom. And I think, in what way? Well, I think by the time she got me, my mom's retired school teacher, right? So she was so hands on, like she dedicated her life to us. We were learning to read and do, all kinds of educational things before we even started school. So, you know, I should really have like incredible academic letters to my name, which I don't. By the time I got to sort of 13, 14, poor mum just kind of lost me to like drinking, smoking, dating and just doing everything that she probably hadn't envisaged for me at all.

But probably because she raised quite a confident, fearless child, you know, because it was such a supportive home. And because they, she empowered me with lots of reading, lots of books. Mum loved reading, right? books are wonderful. It gave me this imagination and I lived in a small village where I was like, there must be more to life. You know, I thought I was in a Disney film where I wanted to go out and see the world. So she gave me that curiosity and that feeling that I was invincible, which wasn't a bad thing and it really served me well later in life in a way that I could never have imagined. But yeah, I mean, we'll see what sort of full teenager I get. She's only 12.

Oh, no, no, you've got a few years of it. Tweedager at the moment. Yeah, good luck. That's all I'm saying. Yeah. But actually, we were all there and I just what I can't bear is something oh I can't bear teenagers don't no they're people they're just going through stuff like we do when you're older yeah women men

everybody does tendency to be really down on young people at the moment as well and blame them for everything no it's really mean because you know like I talked to my daughter about so many different things she gives me such great advice about how to use Canva and how to edit and how to do certain things and I'll ask what music I should put on a video and like young

people are just full of bright ideas that aren't jaded by what other people think of them because they haven't got to that stage, you know, she's 12. So actually, she's quite fresh. She's quite authentic. And I think if you're working in the creative industry, that's an incredible gift, you know. Good for her. Well, both of them, both of your girls. So let's also talk about where you, you've just come back. You've, there's a video with you in Africa. Yeah, I went to Ghana. So I just came back like 48 hours ago. Am I allowed to ask about it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I, yeah. I, It wasn't a, well, we did film, but it was actually, I became, in January, I went to the World Economic Forum in Davos.

I've never been before. Very male dominated space. Trump was there. And I went to, I was booked by World Economic Forum directly and it was sharing my story and promoting my book. And it was actually, ironically, I was talking about misogyny. And this guy started recording a voice note whilst I was talking in the audience as I was talking. No. Did you point him out? Do you know what? I did.

Good. And a younger me would not have done that. And I was just like, can you not? Can you go outside? What did he do? He did stand up and go outside. But it's like, you wouldn't do that in a thing. What's the rude thing to do?

Yeah, you wouldn't do that in the theatre. You know, this is a, I'm giving in a performance of speech and you're in the audience. It's very disrespectful. But maybe because he felt it was a work conference, I don't know. Very bizarre. Anyway, so I went around and I went to go and listen to other. sessions because I quite and I love traveling on my own and I love you know I don't just think oh I'm booked for a job I'll do my bit and then sit in the room and just go on my phone I think

well let me go to other people's sessions and listen to how they speak we have to listen to what people yeah because they don't even if we don't agree with some more so I think it's actually better to go against opposing opinions and listen to that and you know I'd never think oh well I do talks all the time so I know how to talk because actually you can pick up great things from other people plagiarised a few bits as well along the way. So I went to all these different sessions and lots of people were there for not for profit, sort of global not for profits. And I thought, God, I've only ever done charity work in the UK with my Burns charity. And I suppose I've never wanted to do something where you just kind of cut a ribbon, you know, I want to run workshops,

fund things, you know, proper charity work where you're in their life. So I suppose that's why I've only done KPF because it is quite consuming. I am founder and trustee and volunteer, fundraiser, There's a lot of stuff when you've got other things. So I started to think, well, if I was going to do something international, it would need to be really related to how I could give back, not a celebrity sort of patronship. And I found out about Smile Train, which are a cleft-lit palette charity. And they were based in New York for their international offices,

but work around 73 countries all around the world where they have cleft centres. Just amazing work they do. Yeah. So we got in touch, as you do, in the very professional way. on Instagram DM. Slide in the DM. Everyone else is getting chatted up in the DMs and I'm talking to Clef Ballot charities.

And I just said, look, you know, I feel like I could offer you guys something and maybe there could be an exchange of we could give each other a value because I wasn't born with a facial difference. But when I look at other countries, how it's received, you know, there's a lot of misinformation where people believe it's a curse on the family.

Some people believe it's a religious thing where there's like Satan in the child and there's a lot of shame around the child being seen and children are kept in the house. Or they're disposed off at birth in a home birth. You know, they're suffocated or they're drowned. So we just have some brilliant zooms. That's heartbreaking. Yeah, really heartbreaking in 2026.

It's quite heavy stuff. And also when you look at cleft surgery, I mean, medical people, I'm probably saying this wrong, but it's quite simple procedure, say compared to like burns reconstruction, you can really change that child's life. they can just access that one-off operation. So I said, I'd love to wait a few guys, but I don't want to just be announced as an ambassador. I should come and actually do something or meet people. Yeah, because otherwise there's not much to talk about, really.

Totally get it. So I said to my husband, I'm going to go to Ghana, because they've got a whole Clef Centre there. And so my husband's like, oh, God, I'll look after the kids. I'm staying at home. It's term time. You and your crazy ideas, no thanks. And that's the marriage.

He's just used to me having these, like, crazy ideas and then doing them the next day. So he stayed at home and my younger sister Susie came with me. Lovely. And we went out there. It was a mixture of going to like rural places in Kumasi in Ghana and helping moms and children get in our transport and taking them to the city so they could have operations. But also understanding what comprehensive cleft care is. So it's actually orthodontic.

It's actually speech therapy. It's nutrition because the children can't breastfeed because they don't have the closure. It's care for the rest of their lives. actually it's not just one operation, but it's the difference between not just the child being ostracized, but the whole family can be ostracized outside of the village. They can't work. They can't be part of their churches, their community. So even just turning up... What a difference that charity is making to those families. It's massive. And also it's not white people coming in and doing operations and leaving. It's training local staff so that cleft care happens 365 days a year.

It's not a white saviour thing. You know, you're training anisotis, surgeons, speech therapists, and so they can access cleft care every day, you know, which I thought was a good. Yeah, I thought it was a good model. And also it was interesting because I, you know, I'm not known in these parts of the world. I mean, I saw some like British people that were going to Ghana who, you know, originally from Ghana, lived in London, now gone back. They would recognise me, but majority of people out there didn't, you know, nobody did, rurally. So I was received differently to how I've got used to

You know some people thought maybe had I had a clef Some people didn't understand why I looked different Some people were fearful of me Some of the children cried when they saw me I'm sorry Yeah I think I think it might not just be the disfigurement It might be I was the first white person they met Maybe in the rural villages as well

But yeah it was interesting going in Looking visibly different and doing that work And then when we had lunch breaks actually talking to people, sometimes with translators, sometimes we would all be speaking English. And they'd be like, so are you, do you have a husband? I'm like, yeah, I got a husband, I've got kids, showing them pictures of my kids on my phone. How lovely to be able to do stuff like that. And I still stand by that you were probably going to do all of that when you were younger, but you just didn't know that you're going to do that. I guess we never know, we never know, do we?

In hindsight, it's such a beautiful thing, isn't it? But I suppose it has opened up my world and my life. And I don't want to sound so cheesy, but I... You never do. No. You like the way you do. You were apologising before you said, I mean. I just think I wouldn't want to do this life without acts of service. It wouldn't have as much meaning.

Like, you know, me and you, we go to some things where you sort of, you're at events, red carpet things, you do certain things. And it's not the most fulfilling. Some of it is really fulfilling and you connect with people you wouldn't have normally met. But some things are a bit through the motions. And I think I probably wouldn't be here. anymore if I didn't have those acts to service. Yeah, I think that that's for me that if you're working for charity, you're working for a charity.

Yeah. Just going to go, oh look, I can't bear all of them. Yeah, yeah. We're really lucky to do what we do. Yeah. Very lucky. And also, you are changing lives and you have a gift. You have an absolute gift.

Please keep sharing that gift. No, really, really, you know I mean it. I wouldn't have, I wouldn't say this to your first. face. I wouldn't say it publicly. I always do. You're a really, truly special person. Thank you. You really are. And carry on flying, please. Oh, that makes me feel embarrassed. I feel like I'm blushing. Keep flying. Thank you. I don't know if you've brought something, because we always ask people to bring something that brings them joy. Yeah. So have you brought something along that brings you joy? It's not glamorous. No, we don't know. We honestly, it's all sorts of

things. Right. Okay. So every single morning, I have a bit of a ritual. I have a bit of a ritual. I have to have a coffee, right? And everyone knows, don't speak to me until I've had my, have my coffee. So I mustn't ring you early in the morning. Go, hi. No, no. I'll press red. And my youngest daughter, she's only eight, right? She goes to this little craft club. And she brought this item back from craft club. And she said, oh, mommy, I've made you a coaster, a mat for your coffee cup. Because you could use it in the mornings. And I tried to make it heart shape so you could know that I always love you. But, Mommy, I always see when you go to all your nice events,

your handbags are really small. So I made it really small so you could always carry it around. That's precious. Every day, do you know what I do in the morning? I get my coffee and I genuinely do that. Oh, I love that. You put your coffee cup on it. On this minuscule inadequate coaster.

But I just love it. Do you know, sometimes I find it hard, and this is something I always like to just really say how it feels, is I do find it hard being the breadwinner, being the working mum, and, you know, Richie's a good dad. I'm not lucky, he agreed to have kids with me too. You know, that was what we both signed up for. But I do sometimes feel out the loop and like not the better parent, you know.

So when, and I suppose this is a bit needy, but hearing that she thought about me in Craft Club and wanted to show me that and she sees my ritual and did that for me, it's got such a deeper meaning than she'll ever understand. She might know when she's a woman if she chooses to go to work. and be a mother too. But it reminded me that I'm not doing this all wrong and when I'm away that they still think about me because I don't know about other mums that work.

But for me, the truth is I think of my life in seasons. So when I have a season of really good work, so I'm making a TV show in America. I mean, last year I went to New Orleans, made a show in prisons, right? It was going so well. And the commissioner was happy with me and I was getting more work and it was great.

And things in my marriage and with the kids were very like tested and it was difficult right and suffering back at home then when i got back i took some time off from work and i was reading the bedtime story i was volunteering at the school i was helping richieville his stuff allowing him free time and i was constantly worried being self-employed looking at my peer group on instagram doing different jobs thinking i haven't really worked oh i could have got that job but i didn't even get the offer or no have i fallen out of favor so i i've never ever like balancing and juggling. I'm always in seasons

and excelling in one and failing in the other. There's no failure. Well, I'm always overthinking it. I'm always over, you know. But also the industry is a really, really, really, really odd industry. And never, if you can,

we all do, we all do it and think, oh, I wish I could have done. I would have loved to have done. I wanted to do, but nobody wanted me. Yeah. But all of that. But just be true. to you and you always are.

Katie Piper, you're wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.