That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Mel Robbins

Episode Date: January 10, 2022

On the episode this week, Gaby chats to Mel Robbins, the author of 'The 5 Second Rule' and her latest book 'The High 5 Habit'. She’s also a motivational speaker and TV and radio host. Her Ted Talks have been watched by tens of millions of people. Her social media is all about support. She is a force to be reckoned with. She is honest about her very tough past, how she felt about herself and how she feels now. They discuss the emotion of jealousy, she talks about the difficult time her daughter went through after leaving University and they look closer at the High 5 Habit and how we can change our lives by simply treating ourselves better, learning to like ourselves and how we should all be showing ourselves respect. She believes our dreams are always calling us. She also shares an extraordinary story about a painting! You’ll have to listen to hear more. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to that Gabby Rosin podcast, part of the Acast Creator Network. This week, my guest is Mel Robbins, the author of the five-second rule and her latest book, The High Five Habit. She's also a motivational speaker and a TV and radio host. Her TED talks have been watched by tens of millions of people. Her social media is all about support. She is a force to be reckoned with. I could have listened to her for hours and hours. She's so honest about her very tough.

past, how she felt about herself and how she feels now. We discuss the emotion of jealousy. She talks about the difficult time that her daughter went through after leaving uni and we look closer at the high five habit and how we can change our lives by simply treating ourselves better, learning to like ourselves and how we should all be showing ourselves respect. She believes our dreams are always calling us. She also shares an extraordinary story about a painting you'll have to listen to hear more. Please can I ask you a favour? Would you mind following and subscribing, please,

by clicking the follow or subscribe button. This is completely and utterly free, by the way. And you can also rate and review on Apple Podcasts, which is the purple app on your iPhone or iPad. Simply scroll down to the bottom of all of the episodes. I know there have been quite a few now. And you'll see the stars where you can tap and rate and also please write a review.

Thank you so much. Mel, what a way to start the year with you. I just think you are the most inspiring person. I was lucky enough to speak to you on my radio show. And when I did, I knew I wanted to talk to you for possibly the next 28 hours without stopping because I think we could talk about so much. So thank you for being on this. It's a real joy to have you at the beginning of the year. Oh my gosh. Well, thank you. And you know, I have to ask. I keep hearing everybody say that I'm so inspiring, but being me, I don't know, I'm just curious to hear why you think that. Because you say the things that many of us feel and believe,

and there are, there's a whole group, I know you spoke to it, my lovely friend Chris Evans as well. You know, there's lots of us who feel like you, but you've gone out there and you've done it. and I think that's why it's inspiring for me personally and it's interesting after you did my radio show I had a few messages from people that said I've done this I've tried to do this and yet when it doesn't happen for me how do I keep going and I'm so pleased I get the opportunity to ask you that because of course we're going to be talking about the high five habit which is this

amazing book, which I've bought for so many people, and I gave them for Christmas. I know it's going to change the way they feel about themselves because the past two years have been very difficult. There's the five second rule as well, which was the other book, which I think is absolutely superb. But they have asked me, and others, say, I stay positive. I really believe. I have all of those.

I have a light way of looking at my life. I don't judge myself. I dream. I have ambitions, which is how I feel I have since I was three. But when it doesn't happen, how do I keep going? So I'm delighted to be able to ask you that as a first question. Well, I love that you ask this question, and I think it's a really important conversation, not only to have at the beginning of the year, where most of us have a sort of renewed

sense of optimism and inspiration and we feel like, okay, we got a new year, I got a fresh start. This is going to be great. But this is also a really important question just for day-to-day life. How do you keep going when you're not getting what you want? How do you keep going when you've worked really hard and you face a massive disappointment? You don't get recognized. You lose the job. You have somebody that you've been with for a long time say, I don't love you anymore. How do you pick yourself up? How do you keep believing? And, you know, the first thing I want to say is that it is a skill that you can learn to be more resilient.

It is a skill that you can learn to keep going when life knocks you down. And, you know, one of the things that I will also say is just because you have a positive attitude and just because you are something, somebody who keeps pushing forward, it's not going to protect you or insulate you from massive disappointment and heartbreak and setbacks and injustices in your life because life is full of those things because life is the greatest school that you will ever attend. And what I'm here to tell you is that when life does knock you down, when you do face disappointment, when you don't get what you wanted and what you deserved. You know, like, let's just take an example that is really relatable. Let's say that you have decided that this year is going to be the year that you

take your health seriously. And so you pick a diet after studying a bunch of eating programs. You cut out the sugar. You cut out the gluten. You start walking every day. And you have been at it. You have been up. You have been working hard. You have been putting away the, the cell in the water instead of the beer and the wine. You are doing a great job. And you step on that scale after a week or 10 days. And literally, it hasn't moved. Like in those moments, nobody wants to keep going. You are a human being that has been trying. And, you know, when you try, you want to get rewarded. And so here's what I do in those moments when life punches me in the face. or I don't get what I deserve or expected.

First of all, I get really angry. And, you know, for me, I like to yell. I've been known to, like, smack a wall or hit a pillow. I will have a gin and tonic. I'll, you know, I'll literally complain to my friends or my husband. I'll just kind of bitch about it. But I don't stay in that negative space. I allow myself to be human.

I allow myself to ride the wave of life. I allow myself to feel the low, to be pissed off, to feel just robbed or angry or frustrated or resigned. And it's important to allow yourself to feel that stuff because otherwise it builds. If you don't get resignation and disappointment out of your body, Gabby, it literally becomes the reason why you stop working on what you want.

then here's what I say to myself. The very next morning or the morning after that, I look myself in the mirror and I practice the high five habit as part of my morning routine. And when I raise my hand and I high five myself into the mirror, it's interesting. It's like it sets a reset button in my mind. I've allowed myself to feel the low and now I'm going to high five myself just like in sports. If you do a terrible play, a teammate high fives you to say, shake it off, get back out there. and then I say something to myself on repeat, and there's two versions of this that I want every one of you to write down. I want you to steal. I want you to make it your own. I want you to teach it to your kids because this is a secret weapon in life. The first version of this is when you're working hard and you don't get what you want.

And so what you say to yourself is you just have to say and repeat, if I keep working this hard, I will be. rewarded. And I didn't get what I wanted because something better's coming. And that's why I got to keep going. And, you know, it's interesting that we're talking about the health thing because our daughter came home and graduated, you know, from university. And her last two years were just destroyed because of COVID. And so she lost out on half of her college experience. And I think, Gabby that she basically drank her way through the depression over that. And when she graduated from university, she's not only grieving over the fact that it wasn't the experience that she had expected, that she deserved, that she wanted, that she had worked hard for, but that she had also

compounded that upset by coping, by drinking and eating away her negative emotions. And so she took on as, you know, a project this summer getting healthy again. And she got into therapy and, you know, we're super, super proud of her. And, you know, this is the thing about having whether, you know, it's, we're talking about what do you do. But I think we all also, you can be listening to what Gabby and I are talking about and be thinking about, well, how does this apply to somebody that I love? And the really difficult thing is when somebody that you love is struggling, you can't fix them. you can't do the work for them. Oftentimes when you push them or you remind them,

it only makes them feel worse because they already know what they need to be doing. And now you're kind of just harassing them about it, which makes them feel even more down and defeated. And so, you know, I've found that, you know, when somebody's down, you just listen and you ask a lot of questions and you, through the questions, get them. So what do you think might help? What have you been thinking you might do? And through the talking, they come up with the answers. What do you need support with? And so she took on, you know, this big exercise program and this online health challenge called 75 hard, which Jesus, I don't

I mean, I could never do this thing that she's doing. And the first two weeks, she literally saw no result. And when I tell you this kid was defeated and I started saying to her, you know what, there's no way when you're working this hard, you will not be rewarded. Maybe you're not seeing the result yet because maybe the way your body is processing all this, it's still in shock. And maybe next week or maybe the week after, you'll be startled by what starts to happen. And that's exactly what happened. And the important reason why you need to learn how to both feel the disappointment, but also to pick yourself back up, with this realistic optimism is because if you allow your mindset to feel defeated or get negative or get cynical, you will lose all inspiration to keep working hard. And then the other version of

this that I use is, you know, I say during periods that are really difficult and periods where I'm experiencing heartache or I'm experiencing betrayal or I'm experiencing a really profound level of hurt or sadness or insecurity or I really screw up. I say to myself, this moment, as painful as it is, is preparing me for something amazing that's coming. This moment as painful as it is. See, I believe this. I believe, I've lived my whole life as this. I used to apologize for always being very positive. And the press for years always said, oh, why are you so happy? And I'd say, oh, I'm sorry. I don't apologize for it anymore. I've been, as a child, as an adult, I'm very positive. I'm very happy, Skippy, and I've gone through tough stuff. I mean, it's no secret.

My mom died very young and all sorts of things. But one of the things that I was taught by my parents, actually, there are few things, is that you follow your dreams, don't hurt anybody in the process, and you brush yourself off and you start, you keep going. You don't start all over again, you keep going. And that you've got to, if you've got to, if you've got, those dreams, hopes and ambitions, everything happens for a reason. And I always say that with friends. You know, a friend of mine went for a huge movie the other day. She's a very well-known actress. She went for a huge movie. And it was hers. It was hers in the bag. She's made for it. She didn't get it. And she's wonderful. And she said, I didn't get it. Oh, I wish I'd felt like

this when I was 21. And I said, what do you mean? And she said, well, I know that the next part's going to be there. And the reason I'm not doing this part is because the next part's going to be there. And we had this whole conversation about being the age that we are now, we can feel like that. So TV shows, radio shows, podcasts, whatever it is that I'm doing. I can feel like that because I've learned that. But it's very hard, you say your baby girl who's just finished university, but it's very hard when you're younger to be able to say, everything happens for a reason and believe it. Well, it's true because wisdom comes from experience. Yeah.

And experience comes from time and failure and mistakes. And when you are older, I'm 53 this year, you've had a lot longer runway to gather that experience. And so what I find, though, what I find is that it doesn't matter how old you are because everybody has, the same experience of being able to look back on bad things that happened in your past, even if you're only 15, even if you're only 20. And we can look backwards and see these really hard things that we've faced in life. And then we can stand in the present moment and see how that shaped us in a way to prepare us for where we are right now.

And what these two mantras do, the first one being, hey, if I'm working hard and I didn't get it, it's because something better is coming. And that's true whether you're applying for a job or you're dating and somebody goes to or you're looking for an apartment in a certain neighborhood at a certain price and you keep losing the ones you're applying for over and over and over again. Saying in this moment, if I keep going, something better is coming. Yes. Keeps you going.

Yes. Yes. Keeps you going. And we all know that you cannot think your way to a better relationship, a better body, a better relationship with your house, health, more money, a better apartment, a better role. You're going to have to act your way there. And so this little sort of mindset flip, something better is coming will trick your brain into processing the disappointment and then getting back to work. And the other one, which is, this is preparing me. This is preparing me. I don't deserve it. I don't want this heartache. I didn't ask for this. But it is preparing me for something extraordinary that's going to happen. And when you can reframe heartache and pain

into lessons and preparation and something that is building character in you or giving you a relationship or giving you an experience. Like, you know, look, I would not wish on anybody the experience that I had when I was in fourth grade and I was molested by an older kid. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Now that said, and this is true based on research as well, as, you know, people have researched the experience of having any kind of traumatic event, and survivors of massive heartbreak, massively traumatic events,

almost universally say they wouldn't change anything because they can see now how that hardship shaped them into being the person that they are. And if they hadn't had that hardship, they wouldn't know the strength that they have inside them. And that experience, is something that has equipped me to be able to help so many people because I understand what trauma is.

I understand what it means to be a survivor. I also understand, by the way, that the older kid that was doing this to me was probably a victim in his or her own house. And so there's a tremendous amount of depth and wisdom and grace and maturity that allows you to become a better person and that also equips you with the ability to help other people and to face the things that are coming.

So you do this millions and millions. I mean, the stats on you are extraordinary. The millions of views of your TED talks, the millions of sales of your books, the millions of people who come to you and talk to you through your social media. And for you though, I think a lot of people, we've got to talk about the painting story

because that's incredible. But for you, the things that you've been through, there's a wonderful, there's that trigger moment where you go to see Oprah Winfrey. And that moment at the beginning and you're there and the music's playing. And then for me, I know many people might not have picked up on this being a trigger moment.

And I know you've gone through, I mean, crippling debt, almost a million dollars and, as you say, the abuse and all of these things. But it seems to be that that moment changed so much for you, just being in that moment waiting to see Oprah Winfrey. And I'm not hooking it on to Oprah. I'm just, let's sort of put Oprah to one side that you were standing there in this conference center, this one moment. Yeah, yeah. So a couple things. What you're talking about is, boy, decades ago, I went to kind of one of these big sort of life improvement seminars. And Oprah Winfrey was putting it on.

It was called the Live Your Best Life Tour. I was there because I felt stuck. I was there because I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life. I was there because I figured that maybe going to a seminar and listening to people who seemed to have had it figured all out, but maybe I'd find some answers for myself. And, you know, they're playing music and everybody's doing. dancing and, you know, wearing name tags and super positive, the kind of thing that you and I love. And all of a sudden, the music dies down and they announced some woman whose name I did not know,

and she walks on stage and she starts talking. And in my body, I had an experience that felt like a combination of jealousy and divine intervention. And in a split second, I was wildly envious of this woman who was on stage, and I felt myself say, I want to be doing that. See, I find this incredible. That is this tiniest moment where you felt, you properly felt this.

This was in your gut. Yes, and you know what? I believe that you have an extraordinary life, that is meant for you and you alone. Yes, yes. And I believe that your dreams and your purpose are hardwired in your DNA and they are with you from the moment you are born. And I believe that your dreams, your destiny,

this calling that's inside you is always calling to you and that there are signs and signals all around you, every single day of your life. And the self-doubt and fear and anxiety and overwhelm and constant negativity in your mind is what is putting a lid on that deep desire and dream within you. And every once in a while, you'll have a feeling. And that feeling is your dreams and your destiny trying to call you.

for most of us, by the way, we've been waiting to kind of have that like feeling in our gut. We're waiting to feel like, sure. I'm here to tell you the fastest way to access what is meant for you is jealousy. Really? Oh, absolutely. We have been... It's such a bad emotion, though. It's such a negative emotion.

No, it's not. No, it's not. Oh, my God, no. Jealousy is one of the most useful emotions in the world. You see, jealousy is just blocked desire. Jealousy is what happens, and it's what you feel when your dreams are screaming at you, and your dreams are blocked by insecurity, fear, anxiety, and negative self-talk. The person that was nasty to you had huge dreams of doing what you're doing.

You represented those dreams. and because of their own insecurity and because of their anxiety and because of their anxiety and because of their trauma and because of whatever, they don't know how to channel that feeling into action.

And so instead, the blocked dreams consume them. And so when you take what you're jealous of and, you know, because here's the interesting thing, about jealousy. You can only be jealous of something that's actually meant for you. You know, I'm, I'm not jealous of somebody who has a hundred million dollar penthouse in Dubai because I don't want to live there. Me neither. But when you find that you're jealous of your friend who's renovating her

kitchen, stop and ask yourself, why? What is it about that? Is it the project? Is it the financial freedom? Is it the creativity? Is it the partnership that she has with her spouse? What is it about that that is triggering you? Because inside the jealousy, if you actually turn inward and you take the time to unpack it, there is a message in there for you. So for me, for years, I have been wildly jealous of people like you, Gabby, who are already in the podcast market. And for years, I have told myself it's too saturated. I'm too late. I really blew it.

If I got into the podcast market now, then I'd just be copying everybody. I got nothing new to say. Everything is, like, I literally have dreamt about doing this for years because I got my start in radio 10 years ago. And I would wake up and kick myself every day for not having started sooner.

And then I would see folks like yourself, and I would feel jealous that you're already in the game and you're already doing dynamite, and then my insecurity, my inferiority, my anxiety would keep the lid on my dream. And now that I understand jealousy, I've unpacked it. And, you know, this year will launch a big podcast. Because I've...

You'll do it. I've used it for its true purpose, which is jealousy is a directional signal. It's trying to get you to change directions. It's trying to get you to point your attention and your effort towards something that's meant for you. Isn't that cool? It is. Turning something around like that and making a positive out of what's always perceived to be a negative is a real gift. And I think we all have it in us. Let's talk about the high five habit because of course now it's been out for a couple of

months and people are doing it. When we spoke, I told you that it makes me laugh. And I have this thing where I tell everybody that what they must do, and I've said it for years, you've got to, when the minute you wake up, before you think anything, smile. And everyone just goes, oh, and a friend of mine went through the most awful, awful stuff that she was going through. And she was sitting in her car and she called me up and she was sobbing. And I said, look, she said, I don't know how I'm going to do this. And I said, please, when you wake up in the morning smile and she just went, oh my God, I can't. I went, yeah, you can. You can. You can. You can. You can. You can. And I You really can. Anyway, for two weeks, she did this. She called me at the end of the two weeks. I've told this story before, so apologies for people rehearing it, but I'm telling it to you for the first time, Mel. And she said, and I said, and I said, how do you feel? And she said, well, put it this way that every single morning, I put a smile on my face, and then I thought, oh, fuck you, Gabby. And then that made me laugh. She said, so I've had two weeks of waking up laughing. And I said, and how do you feel? She said, weirdly, I feel better.

she's one of the people that I bought your book for. She's gone through all the stuff. She's happy. She's beautiful. She's, what she went through was really awful. And she now does this. It's her mantra.

It's her thing. And I was, so the high five habit, I called her when I knew I was going to be talking to you on my radio show. She looked you up on the TED Talks. I know, oh my God.

I've been, this is, I know, I know Mel Robbins. I mean, I've been looking at her TED Talks, and the whole thing. And I said, right, try the high five. method and she said, oh, am I going to be swearing at her in the morning? I went, yeah, but it will make you laugh. And so I called her this morning before speaking to you today and I won't say her

name because it's not fair. I called her up and said, okay, have you high-fived? She said, I do it all the time. She said, now I don't walk past a reflection even in a shop window without high-fiving myself. She said, it's just, I feel like I'm walking on air. And she wasn't, she wasn't in a bad place, but it's even lifted her even higher. And it's such a simple thing. It literally is high-fiving yourself in a reflection, in a mirror. And it's uplifting. It's just, it makes you feel good. Well, it does because, you know, I, for those of you that are just hearing it, here's how I want you to practice it. I want you to do this five days in a row. And there's research behind why five days is important. The other reason why I want you to try it five days in a row is because for many of you,

you have spent decades beating yourself up, criticizing yourself, picking yourself apart, focusing on the negative. And so a habit that is really grounded in self-acceptance, self-respect, self-worth, self-empowerment is going to be something that's going to feel very foreign and very corny and very silly. And so I need you to do this for five days to really push through the resignation and let the sign. and what's called neuro association work their magic on you. And so after you brush your teeth, you're going to put your toothbrush down,

and then step one is you're going to just stand in front of the mirror and you're going to look at yourself. And for most men and women, simply taking a moment and looking at themselves is the hardest part of the high five habit. Because 50% of men and women will not or cannot look at themselves in the mirror because they are so disgusted or disappointed with themselves.

And for the rest of us that can look at ourselves in the mirror, when we look in a mirror, our subconscious habit is to focus on what we don't like and what we need to fix. That's a habit of self-rejection. That's a habit of self-criticism. And that habit is so pervasive in your life, you're not even aware of how pervasive it is. And so just look at yourself for a second, and then you're not going to say a word. You're just going to lift your hand like you would to a mate,

and you're going to high-five yourself, the human being that you see in the mirror. And a couple things will happen. Don't rush it. Don't slap the mirror, and then go, this is stupid, move on with your day. Just, you know, raise your hand and high-five the mirror. And you're going to notice what Gabby's saying. First of all, you're either going to laugh, or you'll crack a smile because the neuro association is so powerful. Your brain knows what a high five is, and your brain has neuroassociative programming in it related to the action of a high five. So when you high five yourself, number one, your brain gives you a drip of dopamine.

Dopamine is the reason why you smile, and it's the reason why you're laughing. It's the chemical that boosts your mood and increases your focus. The next thing that you're going to feel is you're going to feel the critic in your head shut up because your brain already has neuroassociative programming that is related to the high five and that programming is all positive. You've never high five somebody Gabby and thought I hate you. Your face looks awful. Boy, are you fat.

I hope you lose today. Every time you've seen somebody high five one another or you've been high fived or whatever, It's been, I believe in you. I see you. I love you. Keep going. We got this. We're going to win. Shake it off. It's positive. It's always celebratory. It's always empowering. It's always confidence boosting. It's always this amazing feeling. And so your brain only knows that messaging. So as you go to high five yourself, that messaging infuses with your own face, your own body, your own being. And then the final thing that happens for neural association is that, your nervous system. Your nervous system is a lot like electricity in your home. So when you walk into your house at night, everything's dark, but the electricity is still running through the walls. You reach for a switch and you flip it, and then you turn the electricity on and the lights come on. You tap into something that's there. Inside your nervous system is celebratory energy, just like electricity.

And it is there to be used at any moment. So, for example, when you cross a finish line, you raise your arms. When your favorite team scores, you raise your arms. When you shout surprise at a birthday party, you raise your arms. When you go to wave to somebody or hug somebody, you raise your arms. When you go to high five somebody, you raise your arms. So when you go to raise your arms, it's like flipping a switch. in your nervous system and that vitality, that celebratory energy that you need,

comes coursing through your veins. And it's why, even on the lowest of mornings, you can drag yourself into the bathroom feeling like the weight of the world is on your shoulders. And a simple moment staring at yourself and raising your hand in a gesture that communicates, I see you, I believe in you, I got you, you're going to be okay, you know, let's do this without saying a word, boost your mood, gives you dopamine, makes you feel supported, and it gives you that little jolt that you need, and you'll leave the bathroom feeling lighter. And the reason is because of science.

And then there's one other final piece to this that's pretty miraculous, and that is that, you know, there's a whole body of research called behavioral activation therapy. And behavioral activation therapy, in many cases, is even more effective. than cognitive behavioral therapy. And behavioral activation therapy is very simple. It just is act like the person you want to become. Now, this is very different than fake it till you make it, because fake it till you make it presumes that you don't know what the hell you're doing. Acting like the person that you want to become has an intention behind it. If you would like to feel more empowered in your day-to-day life, if you would like to be kinder to yourself, if you would

like to notice all the things that you do right every day. If you would like to feel like you have your own back, that you are your own best friends, if you want better boundaries, if you want to stop people pleasing or feeling guilty, if you'd like to look in the mirror and see a human being that you really like, when you start to high five yourself, your brain is watching and you are acting like a person who likes themselves. And without saying a word, your brain starts to change its programming in real time, and it starts to relate to you as a person who respects themselves, who supports themselves,

who treats themselves as this they're worthy because your brain is seeing you take action that demonstrates it. That's why this simple high five as part of your morning routine, even though it's cheesy, even though you'll resist it, Give me five lousy days and you'll be shocked at how much changes. Because what's changing is your relationship with yourself.

How about, can we go on to something that sort of, I do talk about this a lot. And I think, I think through social media, we're even more judgmental than we have ever been. But I think possibly women are more judgmental than men. Girls are more judgmental than boys. But sitting in judgment over others, how they look, which is about, absolutely wipes the floor with so much these days. You know, young girls who are, we know that eating disorders are up, we know that fillers and Botox and all of these things.

If that's what somebody wants to do, it's absolutely up to them. I'm not frowning on them because then I'd be being judgmental. But I think being in the public eyes, well, everyone has an opinion. And how do we unlearn being judgmental? How do we make sure that our daughters, our sons, our parents, our grandparents, whoever it may be, stop being as judgmental? So we don't look down our nose on somebody else because they're not tall. They've got red hair. And we're watching Anne with an E on Netflix at the moment.

It's all about Anne of Green Gables and she has this, I'm sure you know the story. But you know, she's a red head with freckles and she doesn't like the way she looks. and people say, oh, you look like a dog, all horrible things. You know, it's, and that was written in 1908. This is sort of inbuilt. How do we stop this tide? Well, you cannot stop what somebody else is doing. So number one, the only way that you're going to change behavior with your kids is by demonstrating

the behavior you want them to learn. That's number one. number two the reason why everybody is so judgmental of everybody else is because they are so judgmental of themselves your relationship with yourself is the foundation of every relationship that you have in life when i looked in the mirror for so many decades before i discovered the high five habit in april of 2020. I looked in the mirror and I saw a woman who was never doing enough. I saw a woman I didn't like. I saw a woman where I thought something was wrong with her. I saw all the things I wish I wasn't, all the things I wanted to fix. I started every day by rejecting myself, by picking myself

apart. So it's no wonder if I'm leaving my bathroom every morning, feeling beaten down, feeling insecure, and feeling picked apart, it's no wonder that I would then step out into the world and be an insecure person. And it's no wonder that I would seek validation and worth and love from other people because I had withheld those things for myself. And if we want to fix this problem, which I agree is a massive problem, it begins by you changing the way you treat the most important person in your life, and that's yourself. And that can change every single morning by how you treat yourself in the mirror. When you break the habit of beating the hell out of yourself, when you break the habit of like if you're not looking at yourself in the mirror because you're

disgusted or disappointed or you don't like the person you see or you wish you were different that's self-rejection if you can't they're putting out on other people of course of course because you know we as human beings have fundamental emotional needs you have a need to be seen You have a need to be celebrated and appreciated for the unique individual that you are. And you have a need to be heard, meaning understood. And when you're not seen, you feel invisible. When you are not celebrated, you feel alone. When you are not heard, you feel completely forgotten and disconnected.

And that's how so many of us go through our day-to-day lives. And we push it down and we bury it. And then we chase big jobs and we try to make more money and we get a better car and a nicer house and a, you know, great-looking vacations online. And all of this is driven, this like intense drive to accumulate and achieve and look better and use filters. It's all just masking this deep. Insecurity. And I can't explain how transformative it is when you can look in the mirror and see a person you like. I used to be a chronic people pleaser because I believed there was something wrong with me.

Because I picked myself apart all the time because I focused on everything I wasn't doing instead of the thousand things a day that I do do. And so of course I would be in relationships with friends or family or, you know, boyfriends or whatever. And I'd be seeking approval because I wouldn't even give myself approval. And that means, you know, my self-worth was never in my control. That meant that somebody else's opinion of me was more important than my opinion of me. And one of the coolest things in the world is, you know, if you can learn to accept yourself, if you can learn to like yourself, if you can learn to like yourself, if you can learn how to treat yourself with respect, how to cheer yourself.

You know, and you don't have to like where you are right now. You don't have to like your body. You don't have to like your job. You don't have to like where you live. But you do need to look in the mirror and treat the person that you see with some respect because they're trying hard and they're beaten down and they need your support. And the last thing they need from you is more negativity and more criticism. They get that from the rest of the world.

They need you of all. And then you'll be a people pleaser, won't you? Yes. You'll please people because you'll be nice to people. You'll be kind to people because you're being kind to yourself. And it won't be about I'm judging you because this is, you know, a lot of people say it's about putting a mirror up. So when somebody says, oh my God, you look really old and fat, that's how they feel about themselves. I know I'm putting it into the simplest.

See, I don't think people, I think people pleasing is more about doing whatever you can to make sure people like you. And I think it's more about seeking acceptance. Yeah. And because you're not feeling that from yourself. And what happens when you start treating yourself with a little bit of worth and a little bit of respect and a little bit of kindness is that you start to like yourself again. And when you like yourself, something magical happens. When you go out into the world and somebody disrespects you, it doesn't change the fact that you respect yourself. Yeah.

When you like yourself and you go out into the world and your friends all go out to lunch and they don't invite you, yeah, it stings, but it doesn't change the fact that you like yourself. When somebody breaks up with you, yeah, it hurts, but it doesn't change the fact that at the core, you know there's nothing wrong with you and you like yourself. And so from within, you can build a stronger foundation. From within, you can create a relationship with yourself that will be rock solid so that as you experience the ups and downs and the waves of your life, yes, you will get knocked over, but you will have within you the strength to pick yourself back up and high five yourself right back on. You are great, Mel. Let's talk about this incredible painting story. I mean, it is, it's amazing. I sort of, I want people to read it in the book, but also, I know millions of people have bought the book, but to hear you telling the story. I mean, it is incredible. Yeah, what she's talking about as a story in chapter 14 that feels like a little bit of, of a kind of departure in the high five half. because the book starts out with the story of me kind of stumbling into the high five habit. And then we go into the science of why a high five in the mirror works.

And then we just really unpack information about your brain. And then we talk about it. Like, it's just this super rich, amazing book. And the high five in the mirror is sort of the... Yeah, it's very easy to follow. I just, it's not a heavy tone. It's easy to follow and you'll devour it. You'll laugh.

You'll cry. But at the very end, I wanted to include this incredible story so I could pull all the science together and prove to you that your mind, body, and spirit are designed to help you get what you want. Again, I said earlier in our conversation that I believe your dreams are always calling you. I believe that the things that are meant for you are trying to find you. and when you can change the relationship that you have with yourself and you can quiet the self-doubt and quiet the anxiety and quiet the negativity, you will start to feel the pull of what's meant for you. And in Chapter 14, I tell this remarkable story about seeing a painting when I was 21 years old and having an experience when I saw it, just like I did at that Oprah Winfrey conference,

where somebody walked on stage and all of a sudden I felt in every fiber of my being, I want to be doing what that woman's doing. And you don't need to know in the moment. You don't need to have it make sense. You just need to give yourself permission to want what you want and to believe that with work and that with a right attitude, eventually, eventually what's meant for you will come you. And so the story is 10 years long and it ends in the most remarkable, remarkable way. And no, I didn't get the painting that I saw in that restaurant. I got something a thousand times

more remarkable. And in the telling of this story, as I'm sobbing on the audiobook, I'm also weaving through the science of your reticular activity system, a filter in your brain. I'm also teaching you about something called the Zygarnic effect, which is a checklist in your mind. I'm talking to you about the waves of doubt and your nervous system, and I'm training you in real time using a story that is nothing short of a miracle to prove to you that everything that you're going to learn in the high five habit all comes together to help you train your body and your nervous system and your mind to work for you, which was how it was originally designed. We always ask everybody on this podcast, what makes them belly laugh, properly lose it laughing. And so I'm asking you that same

question. What makes you really, really laugh, Mel? I have like the sense of humor. of like a seventh grade boy. So, you know, kind of raunchy jokes, uh, slightly offensive comics. Um, one of my favorite things to do is to, you know, turn on those Netflix comedy specials and just laugh until snotts coming out of my nose and I'm grabbing the back of my head, you know, going, oh my God, I can't stop laughing. I shouldn't be laughing.

That joke is so bad. Why am I laughing? Like it's, that's the kind of thing that just, makes me belly laugh. Although here in London, you know, I've been over here with our daughter and my COO, who also happens to be my sister-in-law. And boy, we have had an amazing time. We were walking home from DeShoom back to our hotel and I had a couple gin and tonics and I was just rip, roaring funny, laughing the whole way, cracking jokes. I had my daughter believing that, in fact, here to promote the high five habit. I'd come over to do dental surgery because we passed this

like dentistry hospital. So anyway, I'm just, I love laughing. I love having a good time. I think life can get really serious. And one of the reasons why I love sharing these simple tools that I've discovered that work in my own life with the world is because if a tool is simple, you'll use it. And too often, we think, you know, our problems are big, so the solution has to be big when it's actually the opposite that's true. The bigger the problem, the bigger the challenge. Yeah, and you're smiling is exactly the same thing because you're getting dopamine. Laughing.

Laughing. You know, the past two years almost now have meant that people want to laugh and need to laugh. And they need to – actually, everyone, what they need to do is by this book, the high five habit. Take control of your life with one simple habit. Mel Robbins, what a pleasure to speak to you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. Coming up next week, the actor Jason Isaacs. That Gabby Roslyn podcast is proudly produced by cameo productions. Music by Beth McCari. Could you please tap the follow or subscribe button? And thanks so much for your amazing reviews. We honestly read every single one and they mean the world to us. Thank you.

Thank you so much.