That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Melissa Hemsley

Episode Date: July 9, 2024

Melissa Hemsley joins Gaby for a chat about the joys of food and cooking and ingredients. They chat about her new cookbook, which features some really easy recipes with ingredients that's easy to source. (there's also quite a lot of cauliflower chat) Melissa is a real joy, and we hope you feel the love too! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Melissa Hemsley, do you know, in every single way, you epitomize goodness, kindness, and you have the most beautiful soul of anybody I've ever met in this industry, and I absolutely mean it. You are utterly unique. You're a very special individual. I suddenly went emotional then. Abby, you've got me. No, no, no.

We've known each other very long time, and I mean every word of that. You've got a new book out. Now, we're going to go straight into the book, okay? We're going to talk about so much more, including what you and I did. in COVID. Wasn't that incredible? I was reflecting on this. We smashed it and we're ready to go again, aren't we?

Oh my goodness, mate. Every week. I will explain what we're talking about. But you've got a new book out, Real Healthy. And I've pulled Ed out of his glass box. Hello, Ed. Hi, I got to be. Come closer to the microphone.

You know about microphones. I should know better, really. So I just opened your book, Real Healthy. Unprocess your diet with easy everyday recipes, Melissa Hemsley. And I opened it up. Okay. This is absolutely sweet. Reenact, Ed.

What happened? You ready? Let's see a role play. Okay. Okay. They're sharing a mic at the moment, by the way, everyone. So look, Ed. Oh, I love your book.

Love your book. Oh, let me open it up on the very first bit. Okay. Okay. Roasted cauliflower grain salad with almond dressing. I love cauliflower. Say it again like you said it. You were more dramatic.

Genuinely, I love cauliflower. I can see it. I can see your eyes like, That recipe got me written all over it. Could you make it tonight? I think you could because the whole thing is easy to get ingredients, easy to make. You could bring some, you know, in a lunchbox tomorrow if you're recording again. Because it's hard like, you know, has everyone had lunch today?

Look at that. Look at that. Look at his face. Look at the way you. I think I'm going to have to do that. Do you know, in my life and I'm 33 again every birthday, I don't think anybody has ever said to my face, I love cauliflower. Thanks, Ed.

What have I done? Look at him. He's in his, he's in like a cauliflower well-way. He is. He's still reflex, has to adjust the mark at the same time. Bye, Ed. Bye! Bye! Collie-Ed. I'm never ever going to think of him in the same way. Thank you, Ed. You guys are like the first people to look at that because obviously it's not out. Well, I don't know when this is coming out, but you are always my first person. A couple of weeks before it comes out. So you and Ed, Ed is the first person to comment on the cauliflower. His arm's going to hear. Annie is it.

Ed, will you eat the cauliflower leaves, though? That's my next question. Excellent. He knows what he's doing with his cauliflower. You taught me about broccoli stems and leaves and to cook them up with ginger and garlic and chili. Did I? Yeah. You said don't throw anything in the food waste. Which is what we talked about when we did our... COVID.

When I was allowed to close your show, your weekly... We did it every Friday, didn't we? It's all coming back now. Every Friday, in the tens, in the 20s, 30s. Oh, we did loads of them during... lockdown. And each Wednesday Gabby would text me and go,

hello, how are you this week? How's your mum? Because you're amazing like that. I love your mum. And then you would tell me who your guest was and I would try and come up with a little snack or snackette based on your guests and what inspired me or what I thought they might like. It was hilarious. I need to watch them back. We had the most incredible guests as well. You did. Of course you did.

Because everyone was at home. No, but everyone was at home. Yeah. Yeah. It's okay. But you said, do you want to come on and have a good time and let's make some people smile on a Friday afternoon during the COVID? Yeah, and we whipped better, didn't we? Oh, I always whipped my steps. Can I tell you? Are you whipping your cottage cheese, though? Because whipped cottage cheese is the new whipped better.

No. In every way, that conversation, I can't have it. Is it taking you back to the 90s in the 80s? No, that's in every single way. I have a real problem with cottage cheese. Do you? Yeah, because that was the thing when everyone, when we all went off, I went to Gilford School of Acting.

And we always offer me, it's cottage cheese. That's what we're going to have for it. We're going to have, because we're all, you know, I'm trying to be a TV presenter. I'm going to have cottage cheese. And walnuts. And celery. But walnut. We were quite ahead of ourselves.

Oh, yes, you were because you knew brain food. You knew you needed to be having the stamina and so on. We're going to talk about walnuts in a bit, by the way. Are we? Well, I don't want to hint. But I just have dropped a big wonger. Can we please? Only you can say wonger.

Only you. Can we talk about whip fetter? How? how much you have changed my fetter world. Do you know what I love? If you got a fetish for fetter. I have. Whipped feta with watermelon.

Oh yes. Oh gosh. Tis the season. This is the perfect time to do it. And red onion. I think you gave me the recipe. And red onion. And for people that think, oh, they're not sure about raw red onion, you can either pour boiling water on it to like temper the flavor a little bit

because it's quite spicy and hardcore. Gabby and I love it. Or you could pickle them with a bit of lime. lime pickled red onions on watermelon with fatter and do you remember we put the whipped fatter on like we made mini baked potatoes like a jacket potato but we made mini ones like a canopy sorry I didn't make it for you I made a few online

online but no you went to pickles that is my obsession pickles and ice cream and the other day I had pickles in ice cream because oh um the hambah hain marsh her cafe she has a pop-up ice cream place in London.

So if you're in London over the summer, you can have olive ice cream with lumps of olives in and Piccoli ice cream. Oh, okay. It was lovely.

And peanut butter ice cream, that's what I had. Did you have all three in one? I had olives and peanut butter. Wow. Really good. We're going to need to take some votes on that because I'm up for it,

but I'm not sure about the... I could do one of those, but not all. Because olives and ice cream get that. Absolutely the salty sweet. Peanut butter. No, the peanut butter, yes, but the pickle lily. I have to say I liked it.

Yeah. Because I love pickles. I love pickles. I love putting pickled cucumbers in vanilla ice cream. That's how I love them. I haven't tried that. Oh, you're teaching me things. Really good.

But it just the picol lily, it just, the onion kept coming up back and saying, hello. And the cauliflower. Sorry, Ed. And the cauliflower was going, hello. It was saying hi to you. How interesting. So not just, she's obviously super cool. Ania, not that I know her, but to have an ice cream pop-up is cool, but to have an interesting, not just bog standard.

Jaffa cakes, I can't eat it, but Jaffa-Cates, all sorts. Just last thing on ice cream, because you got me, my mouth going. It's really hard to find a mintchok chip ice cream these days. I don't know why. You can make it. I can make it, obviously. But when I go to gelato, pistachio I love, but I don't know what's happened to mint chip. A flavour of our childhood.

Shall we open a pop-up next year? Let's do it. Mint chock chip. ask Anya if we can borrow her ice cream. Can you imagine? But I was just thinking Gabby's, like Gabby's pickles. No, I've got an idea for a pickle shop. Do you need an investor? Because you know you've got

things like online marketplaces now where you can just come up with your thing and it's just like a it will fulfill. Oh, that's quite hard to say. What were you going to say? A fulfillment site. Oh, that's not you worries me. I don't want to go to a fulfillment site. That's not the sorts of sites I'm going to Google. From whipped fatter to

a fulfillment site. No, a fulfillment site. No, a fulfillment site. like, like, they, they fulfill your stock. Oh no, stop it. So you're stop. No, stop. No, get me your jaw. Ed is younger than both of us and he's saying no.

Your jaw are pickles. I'm not having anybody fulfill my whipped fetter and pickles. No, leave it now. Ed's like, can you get back to the script? He's got, he's taking his glasses off. He's got his head in his hands. He's shaking his head in his hands. He's mid-20s and he's embarrassed.

He's embarrassed by the two of us. Okay. We are in such a. lovely studio. Only you would have the nicest podcast studio to record it because it is important to have lovely surroundings. It is. Isn't it? It is. And this place is so wonderful. And I'm going to kick back in this corner. Can we just, can we just talk about the quote on the front here, Tim Specter? I know. That's kind. A delicious guide to eating the healthy way. So you've always thought, I don't know how many years ago it was when I contacted you. And I said, come on my radio show.

Oh, Gabby, you've been supporting me for 15 years. Is it 15 years since you had you? So I Was that your first book? My first book. I started as a private chef, as you know, for take that and some actors and some really lovely people in the entertainment industry. And everybody knows it. So you're not name dropping because we all know that you cook for Gary. I wouldn't name drop unless you, you know, said it first, which he did.

Hi, Gary. But then we, my sister and I, we had a column in vogue. Back when it was, there was no real food, like we were a nation of food lovers, but we sort of food got lumped into like the beauty pages. So the beauty person said, do you want to publish some recipes? Did that. Long story short, started writing books and you very early on because you have been a long time lover of and an public pub. Oh, you.

That's you. Thank you, Abby. But you also have been talking about healthy food long before it's become fashionable. I mean, I can't even believe I'm saying the words healthy food is in or out of fashion. But people are interested in talking about healthy food now. And you have always apprehended. And you weren't. And you weren't.

And you got us on your radio. show and I remember our publishers going, oh, it's a fan fantastic to be on the Gabby Rosling radio show and we brought you in snacks and you've had me in every single time since and then of course we support the same charities and we see each other and I've done menus and we've preferred each other

and we've just done some good stuff together haven't we? We really have and when I know that you're involved I just think this place that's because you're special and what you do is you then spread that as well but it's very interesting talking about healthy, gut health

and everything, because I went on about it because I'd talk about it all the time, but my dad had bowel cancer 28 years ago and survived it. And mum had lung cancer at the same time. So I decided I want to learn everything I possibly could about health because mum, mum sadly passed away, dad survived and I wanted to know what we were putting into our bodies. But I was poo-poohed. Although that is important. Talk about that too, because our lovely friend, oh, bless her, thinking about Deborah. But everybody poo-pooed it. Everybody without fails,

we went, oh God, you're going on about sugar again. Oh, you're talking about your gut. Stop talking about sugar and, you know, talking about what people can and cannot buy. Nanny State. Yeah, they really didn't like it. I remember going to a network television company, and let's put it like that,

and saying we should do a program about health and nutrition. Oh, nobody's going to be interested. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We should. People would be really interested. I'd love to talk about gut health. Gut? What you're talking about, the size of your gut? Don't even say the word. We weren't allowed to say the word gut in a cookbook. They said, it's disgusting.

When my dad had bowel cancer, we were interviewed because he wanted to talk about it. And this is honestly true. The man said, this is great, Clive, because my dad was a newsreader, so he knew what you could and couldn't say. And dad said, bowel cancer. and the matter said, can we just talk about it without saying bowel? Dad said, no, that's what I had. He said, well, so Dad then talked about it.

He said, obviously, I found blood in my poo. He went, don't use the word poo. You can't, and don't mention blood. Yeah. So Dad said, right, there's no point interviewing me. I want to talk about the fact that I had bowel cancer. But now it's changed. At least we are talking about these things.

And you're a big reason that they're talking about. And the legacy of Dame Deborah, you know, because people are more comfortable. with the word gut, poo, blood, as fellow, as women in the room, you know, thank you that we're talking about blood. And Tim Spector, brilliant, gut, lots of people like him. The late, wonderful Michael Mosley. Yes. Oh, what an amazing man he was. I think of him every time I brush my teeth, because you remember all of his Just One Things, which will live on forever, I, when, one of the things I learned from him is, when you brush your teeth, balance on one leg, and then swap over.

Yes. The way to get the balancing in. And so I think of him, And I think, you know, oh, that was so much he shared and we learned from. Loved to his family. He has incredible knowledge and tips. And this is what's so interesting now is, you know, we are, we are hugely knowledgeable. I know you are about nutrition and food because we've, as you said, you went away and learned, learn and I have done so. And we're interested in it and we love our food. Just because we love healthy food doesn't mean we don't love food.

but the rise in doctors and nutritionists who can talk on social media about it and get more people interested especially because we know that GPs and doctors in general generally have about one module or even one class worth of nutrition and then that's all they learn

and they don't have time in their 10 minutes with you and the GP surgery to talk to you about food so you know this book is not about what you shouldn't eat because there's no judgment there Everybody's trying their best and I think we have to be super sensitive that food is an emotive subject. Food should be simple in a way, but it's hugely complicated. The food environment in the UK is grossly unfair and unequal.

You and I have both done lots of work with food redistribution charities. Oh, the Trussel Truss or you work with so much. Fair share. Amazing people. The Felix Project, UK Harvest. Sadly, I could probably list a hundred different food charities that I know of because we have. Isn't that shocking? Yeah.

And in the UK, we have a food waste issue. which is what you started off talking about broccoli stems and leaves. We have a food waste issue and then we have a hunger issue. In the UK, people are going hungry. The amount of children in poverty. And, you know, I'm going to say that I spout about it all the time about food and eating healthily. And I remember going off, I won't say with who, but I went off with the project. and I met the most incredible families.

It's not long ago. And we all sat around together and we talked about health in the broadest sense. And we talked about how important it was to get outside. And they all got it. They talked about their fears and their worries for their kids. The kids were there. The parents were there.

The grandparents, aunts, uncles. There were a lot of people through this charity. And then I said, I know this is really difficult to talk about food, but can we talk about it? And the amount of parents who said, we do not have enough money to have fresh food for the whole family. So then I just talked to them about breaking it down and saying, you know, even an apple. And they said, well, the kids don't want an apple. They want processed food.

And it's cheaper. And I listened. I wasn't judging them. Then we talked about chopping up. It was very funny. We did a very sweet thing. We chopped up apples and we handed them around to the kids and all the kids were like, oh, that's amazing.

And then I've got peanut butter and they were dipping into peanut butter. And they just was like, oh, this is really lovely. And then we talked about the price of fresh food and all of that. And they really, all these people were wanted to learn about it. But they didn't want somebody preaching. And they didn't want to be called families in poverty. They don't want that label either. It's very, very difficult conversation.

Yeah. It is truly difficult and we're talking from a privileged position because we are here saying, you know, we like talking about food. We're sat and, you know, we're sat with our drinks and we have the choice of drinks, the choice of food, the chance to eat three times a day plus snacks and we get to celebrate with food. So it is an incredibly difficult subject. And as you know, I often get pure, I get, every time I release a book, I get, I'm so excited

and I have the fear in me because I want so badly to not offend anyone and I'm super sensitive to that, but I also don't want to be quiet because it's so important to talk about food. So I hope through joyful, delicious recipes, I can have serious conversations about the food environment and the new government, whoever they shall be, have a huge job to do because, as we know, I know you know this very well, food affects so much more than just the survival and the health of our nation. It impacts everything from schooling. How can kids eat? Oh, sorry, how can kids study or learn or even, you know, I'm doing quote unquote behave, like be able to sit still and pay attention and concentrate if they haven't eaten.

it affects people's ability to do their work so a lot of people will say I'm not eating because I want to make sure my kids can eat. My kids eat. Absolutely. There's lots of research that says that key workers, because remember we were all celebrating them not so long ago, cannot afford to eat and the highest proportion of people using food banks at the moment. That's shocking. How it affects the NHS when it comes to obesity and all the consequences of type 2 obesity. Yeah, well, it's the process. food, but also the environmental impact. The environment and you're passionate about that as well.

And also if the government just want to think in 20 years time, they surely want a healthy, strong workforce. I mean, if we really put it down to that, you'd think the government would go, what's going to happen to the next two generations? Because as you say, the kids that you're chatting to, you know, when we were growing up, okay, we might have been able to buy an apple

or have an apple served to us in the school canteen. We might have been able to get an apple from the news agent. Our parents might have tried to give us an apple. We might have preferred something else. But ultimately there wasn't so much processed food about, you might have it for your birthday, in the party bags, at Christmas at Easter and so on. Now, it is hard to find an apple.

Newsagents don't have fresh fruit aisles anymore in the way they did. In the supermarkets... God, I'd completely forgotten that. Think about it. Next time you go past the newsagent, see if you can see actually any fruit and veg... I forgot from that. Like a banana. or an apple, just the basics.

My husband keeps going on about there aren't enough fruit and veg places around. There should be more. Because the supermarket, I don't want to swallow it up. Well, the profit margins aren't there. The profit margins that they get on processed food. So I, and I know you are not about saying any extremes. So we're not saying, oh, yeah, we, yeah, or anyone should or shouldn't eat ultra-process diet versus a whole-food diet. But there's no denying that, even if we look at five years ago, it's exploded.

You, you, you, it's impossible. I mustn't be extreme. It is really, really hard. Even for me who prioritises this and is in a privileged position where I talk about food and get to shop all the time for my job, I find it sometimes hard on the hoof to find something to eat. And as parents too, I've got a one-year-old now. I read some research. Summer.

She's a cutie. I've read some research that says about the impact, because there's loads of new research coming out about ultra-process foods. There wasn't before because they are quite a new-ish phenomenon. And that says that we are really, they're having such a detrimental effect on our kids

because they're losing healthy eating habits that they would hopefully have as adults. And they are unable to tolerate vegetables. You know how kids, there's always that thing of like a kid is not going to eat. eat Brussels sprout we're unlikely to. Oh, I love a Brussels sprout. Did you as a kid though, Gabby? I love them always. Really?

Okay, you must be one of the... I'm a freak. I don't really like sweet things. I always... You love Vicar of Dibbley, don't you? There's that scene where they do the Brussels sprout at the end of the Christmas table because in it the vicar has said yes to four different Christmas dinners because she doesn't want to offend anyone. She opens her mouth. We're going to have to put a little clip of that up and she shoves that last Brussels sprout in to win the Brussels sprout eating competition. Anyway, these kids are now unable to tolerate

or on their way to being unable to physically, like, will be sick if they smell or taste green veg because their taste buds are geared towards sweet and sugar. And, shocking. Again, another shocking statistic I heard is in the UK, I want to get this right, about 67% of our daily calorie energy intake. So basically what your average per day is made up of two thirds. Thank you for summing up for me.

Made up of ultra-processed food. So the plate, if you imagine that plate, is dominant. by ultra-processed foods and that is more than any other country in Europe four times that of Italy and in under 14s

it can rise up to up towards to 80%. But we have to remember it's not just food it's drinks. You know those I don't even know the name of them

those awful awful and again I don't want to be extreme but these these drinks are awful because they're full of caffeine full of sugar and they are cheap so kids are drinking them

I've got to say something very funny that I overheard yesterday is completely true I was sitting down waiting to go into a meeting I was sitting in an outside cafe and these two people are having a conversation

and I'm very nosy I listen to go on, pull your tea it's delicious. I'm trying not to... Lemon and ginger. It's so good. Oh, that does look good. It's really, it's very strong ginger. I love it when it really hits you. And the conversation was these two young men

and one of them said to the other oh, I like fizzy water and the other guy said, no! Fizzy drinks are really bad for you. And the guy said, no, it's just water with fizz. He went, no, fizzy water is not. Fizzy water, they put sugar, they put caffeine. And he went, no, he goes, don't you know?

Have you not seen the headlines? Fizzy drinks are bad for you. So we have to point out that fizzy water is just fizzy water. But you're making such a good point. And I've also just got this visual of you listening in. I was trying not to laugh while I'm drinking my fizzy water. Is that we have to, again, be careful. I don't want to caveat everything, but there are sensationalist headlines like Vizzy Water is Bad for You or all ultra-processed foods are bad for you.

Of course they're not. It's a ginormous category and all food is processed to some degree, whether it's being washed, plucked from a fruit bush or whatever by bush. But all food is processed. So we're not saying all processed food. Yes, actually that's the thing. It's very interesting because I work with lovely Dr. Zand and obviously his brother wrote a brilliant book about ultra-processed food. I devoured it. Wrong word, but I really did.

But I think the thing is that everyone said, what does that mean? Is that just, you know, that brand of driving with arches? Is it just that? No, it's not just junk food. No. You could sum it up by thinking, it's the food that we understandably have lent towards,

as we have got busier and busier, lent towards more and more convenient options in life in general, right? Whether it's TV, transport, everything, digital and food. We've tried to scramble back time and conserve our energies. And what's happened is we've dropped cooking, which is mad because the number of cookery shows and the number of cookbooks, mine included, the sales are up. We love watching and talking about food, but we're not cooking it ourselves. Anyway, another conversation for another time.

but I would say and you mentioned Zan Van Tolerkin and his brother Chris who yeah Chris's book is amazing and it is very much the definitive book on UPFs at the moment, ultra-processed foods, UPFs or UFOs. It's very hard to, when you're excited

and want to talk about them. UPFs, the definitive book is that you can consider them foods that are foods with ingredients that you wouldn't necessarily find in your average home kitchen or restaurant kitchen foods that you

perhaps didn't exist 15 years ago and foods that are often wrapped in plastic with health claims because real food and what we mean by real food is food that doesn't is not claiming to be anything it's not. So like broccoli, rice

your humble chickpea maybe a little kidney bean which I know lots of people do not like and that's where my recipes come in. They don't have or sweet potatoes, they don't have a marketing board or shareholders promoting them, let's say. So one of the things, going back to what I was saying about the new government, there's an amazing food campaign called Bite Back 2030. And I've been following them. They've made up of young people, because it's about the future. Bite back. Bite back. Okay. And they say things like, come on.

Like, you know, they've, and there's, there's campaigns like veg power. And they've, they've worked together with TV channels, it has to be said, who have created, have made that junk food is now advertised after the watershed, which I think is an amazing incredible moment. I wish supermarkets would do it because you go through a supermarket aisle and everything, you know, at the end. And it's at little hands. Well, this is it. You have to go searching for the fresh food in a supermarket. Again, walk yourself down an aisle in your local shop. It can be hard to find your fruit and veg and then you think about maybe your fruit and veg takes up one aisle. That means that 99% of the shop is made up of

of the foods that make the supermarkets profit. It's very funny because we do talk about this a lot and very publicly. The other day I was on coming back from morning live. I'd been doing it for three days. I was coming in to do a podcast and then I was going off to do an event. And I had grabbed from a famous supermarket a gluten freak because I have a real allergy veggie sandwich. And these people are looking at me and go on it.

I'm in a hurry. And actually I've got, it's got red, Cabbage, it's got red onion. It was so far. And I suddenly thought, oh, no, no, no. And I just went, you know what? We all do it. I'm not telling everybody not to do it.

Yeah. I've got the big brand ketchup in my, also another just thing. Do you keep your, if you have sauces and ketchup, do you keep them in the fridge or the cupboard? Because my boyfriend and I always argue over this. Mayo in the fridge. Red sauce not? In the cupboard. Oh, interesting.

Okay, so mine is in the fridge. And the brown sauce in the cupboard. Mine's in the fridge. And I say that. in my book because I've tried to make my own. It was a faf and it didn't hit the spot. There is a brand that does a really good one. It's there.

You'll have to tell me. But this is the thing is you and I and anyone that loves these conversations and we're here to open up a conversation because it is important. I think ultimately what we're trying to say is and I know that my publishers would say, just talk about the book and say, you know, and say it. But what I do is what I'd rather do is have a more broad conversation in general on my Instagram, you know, it's, it's, I remember my poetry just going, you haven't talked about your book very much and it's about to come out. And I was like, but it's, I'm saying,

what's in my book is what I always say, which is let's talk more so that talking and it comes back to the early conversation of you, talking about gut and so on is, the more we talk about these things, the more it becomes a mainstream conversation for everyone, everybody benefits. So, yes, you grabbing a supermarket sandwich is real life. And this is why the book's called Real Healthy. I also will grab a sandwich here and that. I'll tell you why I don't really like doing it is they're really expensive. They are expensive. They never fill me up.

It really annoys me because it's not like they're delicious, but brackets in my head not great for me. They're just, they never fill me up and they're not particularly delicious, but they're convenient. So I actually recorded some video before I came because I was doing something for today. And I was trying to show because I've got a really busy next month. And I mean, most of us are really busy all the time. I was trying to challenge myself

and as to how I could get through today without buying something ultra-processed. And, you know, I'm only halfway through the day. Let's see what happens. But I'm trying to experiment with myself. I'm in a city. Again, I'm in a privileged position. I have a lot of food in the home

because it's what I do for a living. But it is difficult. I will be grabbing and going here and that. And also, as my daughter, we've stopped breastfeeding. I'm weaning her. You know, I'm starting to look at packets of food for her. I'm like, what is in that? Because we don't always say what's in it.

Because there's some broad terms. Things like natural flavourings, I definitely learned this from the Van Tulligan brothers, who are both doctors and very much go and read about them. And also B. Wilson is a journalist and author, and she writes amazingly about ultra-process foods. Because I don't want people to think this is an ultra-process food Bible. It's a cookbook about, remember what we said before?

Two-thirds of our plate is dominated by ultra-process foods. It's about trying to flip that back. Yes. and bring it back to real food. Real food. And what is real food? And keeping it simple. See, that's the thing about your recipes.

As I've said to you before, there are very few recipe books that I can keep up with. And I cook out of your recipe books. And I'm picturing in my kitchen now. And behind a glass cabinet, there's Melissa. You're there. I see you every single day. Peaking out saying hello every day. But you're just thinking of the most wonderful things.

I'm just looking at some of these other things. You've got to do a TV show. It would be a national health. It would be in the national health benefit. It would be a great TV show with you being joyful and positive and non-judgmental as you are talking about these things. Because I know so many people, GPs, people working in hospitals. You know, I've just had a baby. So, you know, I didn't have anything particularly complicated.

But I was in and out very much so chatting to midwives. And they were when I, you know, as you get chatting. You probably could, while you were giving birth, you probably gave them some. Well, I'll tell you what. No, no, no, no, no, hang on. I can't say that. I didn't give because I was being selfish because I'd just given birth, but we did end up. There's nothing selfish about giving birth.

No, but I mean, that's giving. I didn't share my snacks. Oh, okay. But what I did do is, as you know, I turned up with a fan today. I gave birth basically this time last year in North London University College, University College London Hospital. Yeah, not in university. No, it's not a random university.

And I had my first. fan. I had a big old fan so all the midwives were coming in to use my fan because they particularly they not only was it hot they were keeping it warm for the new little bubbers. So it's boiling in there and we were chatting about how hard it is especially around this this you've got me saying university now, especially around this hospital to find any healthy food because I was in for three days. Oh yes. And the midwives and all the people working and they were going well how do you think we feel this is where we work and we work really long hours. We're absolutely exhausted and we have to buy our lunch from vending machines or or dash to the nearest

like that's what are the options for people so even that that's why there is no no judgment and why and everybody's doing their best but the landscape has to change and these foods need to be more available i mean for example no one's saying tax ultra-process foods or junk foods or whatever you want to call that category which as we've said is really broad but why doesn't the government spend more money on promoting the healthier foods and positioning in supermarkets and all of those things. Because the bog-offs, buy one, get one, freeze. You should be voting you in.

And also this is the other thing. What people will say is, okay, let's say I can buy the food. How have I got the time to cook it? You know, I'm very mindful. Lots of people say that. Yeah, here's me banging on about batch cooking. And people are like, well, I haven't got a very big freezer space. Or I haven't got a freezer.

or I haven't got the containers to put it in or I don't know how to, lots of people are scared to reheat because people go, don't reheat rice. Yes. Be careful about reheating this. So there's an education piece, which you mentioned when you were chatting to the kids and the families.

And then there's practical steps that people need to give to help people put it into practice. And then, yeah, supermarkets, not blaming them. They are a life force. I use supermarkets, but it's about positioning in aisles, maybe, you know, there's a lot to say. I want you to be a lot of positives. Can we vote for you, please?

I get scared about any kind of conversation. No, don't be. You're just, I'm sorry, I'm just looking at this. We've got to listen to the young people about climate, about food, about health, about it all. About them as well. About them. Yeah, absolutely. Loneliness, which is a whole other thing that I'm working on.

Well, this is another thing. Community food spaces. In my local area, there's, you know, I think it's a rarity to have a community center now. and there are places that people can drop off, you know, for spare food they've got. But then also it's like come and come and have a bowl of soup and a chat. And, you know, chat Tuesdays and all that, love it. Food is, yes, it's fuel, yes, it's nourishment. It is community.

It's the way we celebrate. It is a great way to literally break bread. I was very lucky to be invited by the Royal Voluntary Service to one of their lunches. and that it was amazing. These elderly people who all were on their own and were lonely and there were quite a few people with dementia and their partners were there and so they feel very alone. And then there were the lovely people who worked there,

the volunteers and the cooks, but it helped everybody. And they were all, like you say, breaking bread together. I'm just looking in here, this is Clementine. Do you say Clementine or Clementine? Oh, any which way. Okay. Chocolate dippers. You see, it's, and then apple nut butter dippers.

Oh, as you mentioned, didn't you? You mentioned that apple and peanut butter. What a combo. Two, red lentil and tomato super sauce. So that, Gabby, what I say is one of the most bought foods, as per my unofficial research survey, what's happening all my friends was, they buy a lot of jarred tomato sauce. Yes. There's lots of different ones. It's amazing.

Different budgets, different brands, different tastes. and I thought about this and I thought well nothing wrong with buying one of those in a hurry absolutely I've done it in the past my boyfriend's done it in the past let's say but you can make your own and this has got red lentils in it which are cheapest chips they cook in 18 minutes

and they add protein creaminess all the good stuff and then what I often do is is great a carrot in so you've got that extra veg to go with your tomatoes and you can't taste it and then use it for soup use it for pasta sauce you could have it for shucks sugar eggs you could simmer it down and make a thick tomato. Could you add capers to it?

Oh, you could add capers to it. You could add olives to it. I've just been thinking about Ed though. When you talked about older people, I remember once going to... He's not that old. No, no, no. His face. His face.

He's mid-20s. He's going to cut this bit out, isn't he? To sabotage me. No, I went to see the Chelsea pensioners because, as you know, my dad was in the army and we were doing a piece on Remembrance Day. and so I was asked to go to chat to some of that for two of them. Aren't they just wonderful? They are amazing.

They honestly, their eyes were rolling back in their heads because they thought they were getting some slap-up lunch from a proper celebrity chef. I think they thought Tom Carriage was going to come and cook them some slap-up meal. I rocked up and I was like, I'm going to make Coronation cauliflower. Not that coronation chicken has got anything to do with the moment. It's right on this again. But if you imagine Coronation cauliflower, so like, sorry, coronation chicken, so the yogurcation tea, spiced, a bit of nuts,

raisins, some people's worst nightmare. I turned it into coronation cauliflower because I was trying to talk about food waste. So I had the crispy leaves in there and it was amazing. And one of the guys told me that he was maybe six years old during the first World War, let's say. Wow. I mean, this is

a number of years ago now. And one of his jobs was he had to feed the rabbits. They came home from school at lunchtime because you didn't have school lunches. And it was village schools. And his job was to feed the rabbits because the rabbits were then going to become their dinner. Sorry Gabby. Oh no. But he had to feed the rabbits and he read the rabbits. He fed the rabbits. He fed the rabbits or

the scraps. So he said we were really mindful of scraps. We didn't necessarily eat the scraps, but someone in the family did. Somebody did. Yeah. And that's reminded me of Ed and his cauliflower. And I will always think of you, Ed, when I make a cauliflower recipe. But I'm, I'm just going to shout out cauliflower here. People listening might go, but you're talking about food I just don't like cauliflower. I just don't like lentils. I don't like kidney beans. And you're just listing foods that I don't like. So my job is not to just bring out another cookbook to satisfy my ego and waste more paper. My job I see it very much as make recipes that are delicious with ingredients that people wouldn't necessarily want to cook with.

I think we all know what to do with potatoes and if you eat meat, you know what to do with your chicken, you know what to do with your fish. And kind of, you know what to do with baking. There's a bazillion baking books out there. nothing wrong with baking and baking a lovely homemade Victoria Spunge. But what I'm trying to do is think about the ingredients that are often in our basket that we either love or we buy them every week because we want to eat them. They end up going to waste. We just don't want to eat cauliflower.

But we bought it this week because we thought we would. So I'm trying to do that. That's my plan. I think, well, your plan works. You are just brilliant. You really are. And I know, I'm just, I'm reading it. I'm talking to you while I'm reading it.

I've just found the bit about ultra-processed foods. And it's just, the way you write is simple. Because we're talking sandwiches. Yeah. I've got some double-page spreads in the book called How to Build A Amazing Sandwich or how to build a fantastic salad. Because I think we all know how to get two pieces of bread and put things inside, but how to make it really satisfying, how to get your plant points,

lots of people listening who might be interested in the same things as Gabby and I, or maybe not, or I've heard the term, plant points and getting 30 plant points a week. So I think it's the American gut project have stated that a target could be to have 30 different plants including. And that's your herbs and your spices. Exactly. Not just veggies and fruits.

It's really positive for your gut and their for your mental health and your overall health. So this is not, again, a book about plant points. But I've tried to bring in lots of different things that I know people are interested in. So how to eat more vegetables. Do you remember when we were told to eat five a day, five a veg? And then everyone went, hang on a minute, that's the bare minimum. Yeah, but also it's a great starting point for people.

And I think it's the way to open the door and go, let's try for five. And then when they learn that it's herbs and it's all sorts of things. Also, interestingly, I had a conversation with those young people about baked beans. And they didn't realize quite, why would they? They said, but baked beans aren't vegetables. and I said, yeah, they're beans. And they'd never thought of it. Absolutely.

So you've got tomatoes? Yeah. You've got your beans. There's probably some onions and garlic in there too. Gabby, you made an amazing point. It's a great place to start. And I think as well, my top tip for anyone who gets the book or doesn't get the book is breakfast. They have to get the book.

That's it. It's actually a legal requirement. Thanks, Gabby. It's breakfast is a great place to start because, like most things, when you feel like you've ticked a box or felt good about yourself in the morning and a breakfast. and breakfast is a great place to start, it can then have a positive knock-on effect for the rest of the day. So you will always post things in the morning.

You're often one of the first things I see when I open my phone. You're walking through the park. You're stopping and smelling the roses. You're sharing something funny to make us giggle in the morning. Breakfast is a great place. Like, okay, if you have porridge,

hear me out. Could you grate some corsette because it doesn't really taste of much, let's be honest, or some carrot. And you could make like a carrot cake-inspired porridge. Just a bit of carrot cake. Not a bit of carrot cake in your porridge. A bit of carrot in your porridge.

porridge with maybe some raisins and some cinnamon, cojerk, because it doesn't taste of anything. Maybe if you have eggs, you get some veggies in there with your eggs, then you're ready. You're like, oh, I've got five fruit and veg in there already. I did this morning. I have to just share it with you because my husband said, what have you done?

So I made the scrambled eggs this morning because I do like my breakfast. Scrambled eggs, I put mushrooms. I put some sundried tomatoes. Yum. I put some capers in. My husband's, do you have to put capes in it? I think, try it. Yeah.

It was delicious. Do you love it? He ate it. He ate it. There we go. That's all I need. He ate it. I've just opened this.

Miso mushrooms on toast. Miso mushroom. Miso, what does it? Why do I love miso? It does, just the words make my cheeks go all. It's that umami, isn't it? Oh. Your taste buds are going, we like that taste.

No, even the photograph of the miso mushroom. Oh, really? It's a good photo, isn't it? I don't take the photo, so I can't take any credit. But you're right. No boring. People think healthy food and they think boring and bland. To be fair, we've just landed on the page with mushrooms, so it is a bit brown. No, that's not. You've made it interesting.

Yeah. So people who don't know what miso is, explain what miso is. Oh, well, there's lots and lots of different types of miso from colours to the base ingredient. And it gives food an amazing umami taste. And umami's the salty death of flavour. Like marmite? Like marmite. Exactly. That's a great one.

but miso can also be really beneficial for you depending on how you use it because it's best to use it at the end of cooking. You don't want to add it to something and boil away all its goodness, but it can be a fermented food. I mean, you want to look for things like properly fermented miso or traditionally made miso paste. That's the other point. People might say, oh, pizza, pizzas are drunk food or pizza must be an ultra-process food. No, not all pizzas. Pizza is traditional Italian food with, you know, great. bread, you know, like a great flour based base, tomatoes on it, loads of veggies on it.

Red onion? Red capers, mushrooms. Goat's cheese. Goat's cheese. Love it. You know, you can, pizza's an amazing vehicle for loading up your veggies, big time. And in Italy, they serve, and we all know that the Mediterranean diet is so good for us. By the way, I also had, under my scrambled eggs, I forgot to add. What did you have under there? We also have kimchi. Oh, well there you go.

An amazing product. But I also start the day with a shot of my gut health product, which I won't say which one, everybody knows. Oh, I'd say it's improved. Everyone knows. Yes. It's very, it's changing my life. Because our gut talks more, I did a gut health conference.

I did a whole day of it. Oh, please invite me next time. It was amazing. And I love so much more these people. But our guts talk something like five times more to our brain than our brain does to our gut. It's fascinating. It does sound like we're. It's fascinating.

But I've learned so much about it all. And I've learnt from you so much. I want to say something that maybe we can both share on is, okay, how do we not waste people's money? Because people might think, okay, I do trust you, Gabby, I'm going to buy this product, or one like it, let's say. How do I know if it's working? And this is a really interesting point, I think about what is healthy food. I will never, ever, ever talk about something that I never believe in. But you're the same.

Yeah. The food that you talk about, the food that you talk about, the food that you, you're not. you make, the books you bring out, the charities you work for, it's because it comes from some way you've learned about it. You never do anything without thinking about it first. You honestly are, and I'm going to say it again, I'm going to end this, because I know we do a little one on Friday that comes out, but I'm going to end this with, in my heart, I couldn't wish to know somebody better. It's made me emotional. You are truly a remarkable person and you are the kindest best soul of anybody

and Ed is nodding in agreement. Gabby, you're amazing. Thank you for saying for a lovely thing. And for chatting about... And will you give summer a big kiss? I will do. Anne Henry. Anne Henry.

Lovely. Thank you, Gabby. Bless you.