That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Michelle Visage

Episode Date: February 1, 2021

In this episode Gaby chats to a person she describes as ‘The Best’, it’s Michelle Visage! Audiences really got to know Michelle through the hugely popular ‘RuPaul’s Drag Race’ but she has such a fascinating career and story. They of course talk about Drag Race, her friendship with RuPaul and that it was actually Michelle’s idea to bring the show to the UK.  Also, how much Michelle adored being on ‘Strictly Come Dancing’. Plus, they chat about her childhood, feeling like a misfit and the importance of not caring what people think. Michelle loves the UK so much she is actually eating beans on toast while talking to Gaby!  Produced by Cameo Productions, music by Beth Macari.  Join the conversation on Instagram and Twitter @gabyroslin #thatgabyroslinpodcast For more information on the sponsors of this episode: Grass and Co. - Find your calm 25% OFF, plus free shipping at: www.grassandco.com/GABYUse discount code: GABY at checkout. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and thank you so much for tuning into that Gabby Roslin podcast. In this episode, you'll hear me describe my guest as the best, and she is. It's Michelle Vizage. Audiences really got to know Michelle Vizage through the hugely popular RuPaul's drag race, but she has such a fascinating career and story. We, of course, talk all about drag race and her friendship with RuPaul. In fact, it was Michelle's idea to bring the show to the UK. Also, how much she adored being on Strictly Cumb dancing.

Plus, we chat about her childhood, feeling like a misfit, and the importance of not caring what people think. Hoor to that, I say. This woman loves the UK so much, she's actually eating beans on toast while talking to me. Enjoy the chat, not the beans on toast. Unless, of course, you're eating beans on toast,

then you can enjoy them too? Please, can I ask you a favour? After you've listened to the chat with Michelle Vizage, could you please subscribe? rate and review, if you could. Thank you very much. That's very kind of you. Michelle, you are just the best.

That's it. That's the headline. That's the top line. You're the best. Well, what did I do to deserve that, Gabby Rosslyn? So I've been watching you for a long time. My 19-year-old daughter has never gets excited about anyone I ever interview on TV, on radio, podcast. And now I'm cool, Mom.

Everything's thank you for that. My 13-year-old cannot believe that I'm speaking to you. My father, who's in his 80s, fell in love with you on strictly last year. So all in all, you're just the best. That's it. It's simple. I mean, what a lovely thing to hear. What a lovely way to start a conversation.

I mean, you can say anything now and I could never hate you for it. Bless you. That one right now. Just wait. Do you know where I really want to start with a quote I found? And it has blown me away. And I hope you did say it. And it's once you stop caring what people think you'll be free.

Yeah. It took me a long time to get to that place. I'm 52. And it probably took me, I'm embarrassed to say, but probably well into my 40s to get to that place of, oh, right. So I don't really have to pay attention to what people think of. of me because it's going to be, you know, it's not going to make a lick of difference if everybody loves me or if everybody hates me. But I think with that statement, you have to really believe it because you can say it. But if you don't believe it, it's not going to help. Because I've

been in the public eye, and you'll understand this and you'll relate. I was in a girl group when I was 19. And I remember, you know, performing in arenas. It was a pretty big girl group. It was called Seduction. And we had some huge songs in 89 and 90. Opened up for Millie Vanilli on a nine-month, you know, world tour. Obviously, they were massive and selling out arenas. So it was an honor. But I remember if there was one person who wasn't paying attention or had their back turned, I would work 10 times as hard to get that one person to love me, to want me, to pay attention. And completely ignoring the 10,000 other ones that were screaming and freaking out and pouring love and adoration at my feet. And that's fundamentally dysfunctional.

As a society, we are teaching our youth to pay attention to the negative comments. and take them as gospel. And herein lies the problem. Absolutely. And I mean, that really does worry. I mean, you were 19, as you say. So I know you've got two girls as well. And I've got teenage girls.

And there's no way that a teenage girl will listen if you say, stop caring of what people think you'll be free. I mean, I've read about, I want to talk to you about your teenage years and being awkward and being bullied. And I was so shy. And I was always worried what people thought. And surely at 19.

it's understandable. There you were thrown into the spotlight. You are going to worry about what people think and you are going to take it to heart if there's nobody there saying to you, don't be like this. And there wasn't. You know, my mother, rest her soul, was amazing.

And she was the one who would never let my feet leave the ground. So if people say, well, how are you still so regular? How are you still one of us? How are you, for a really big lack of a better term, normal? My mother would have slapped the crap out of me if I would have disrespected someone if I didn't treat everybody with respect and equality and dignity. So she never allowed that. But she didn't have the wisdom or the wherewithal to teach me about not paying attention to the background noise that's in the world constantly. And it's been there all the time.

It's just the difference is now kids are so much more accessible. than they were when we were growing up. And I was bullied, but I was not as accessible. You know, now with cyberbullying and everything that's going on there, it's way too accessible and the kids take it way too seriously. So you are correct. I have an 18-year-old daughter and a 20-year-old daughter, and I have pounded into their head for as long as I, you know, I've had them.

Please stop caring about likes and Instagram. Please stop caring about what people think. I have a gay daughter who never fit in. She was always a weirdo. And I cultivated that. And I wanted her to be able to kind of be who she always was. And one of the most proud moments I've ever had with her, and mind you, she's only 20, was her last year in high school before she left to go to uni, before she graduated.

She created something called 20 Time, which is their version of a TED talk. And she created it with her favorite English teacher. And she did a speech. And her talk was simply titled on being a weirdo. And it was 10 minutes of celebrating what she has become through self-love and acceptance. Now she still struggles. But understanding, and this is a kid who's publicly dealt with depression and anxiety and really battled it in a way that no kids should ever have to,

no human should ever have to battle, in hopes to help people. understand that depression and anxiety in youth is very common and you are not weird. So she's embraced that kind of title, that moniker of being a weirdo and turned it into the positive. How incredible. Yeah. Gabby, it was a moment of like, wow, okay, I might have messed up in many ways. But in this moment, I feel like I've led her down the right path. Listen, as parents, we all mess up. you know, those, I won't read a book about it, but my mum died.

You lost your mom, you were the same age as I was when we lost our moms. And strong Jewish moms and, you know, they said it as it was. Yeah. But we're all going to make mistakes. But you, I mean, you are now, and this is a huge thing I'm about to give you. But I think a lot of people out there see you as their mother. I mean, that's probably the word that they wouldn't use, but you're out there speaking up for them,

no matter what their sexuality, no matter what their color, no matter what their religion, no matter whether they are into the plastic surgery, not into plastic. I mean, I've heard you, today I've just been reading everything about you. I've watched everything about you. And it's as if you are taking care of everybody. Would you like that as a child?

Even though you were this awkward teenager, you have this nurturing effect, just watching you, you're nurturing all the time. Thank you. No, I was the opposite. I was very selfish. And I think my mother was a nurturer. Now, I'm adopted.

And I think my issues of selfishness and the need for approval and the fear of abandonment come from imagine being a child who they say that you can feel and hear things in utero. Imagine being in utero. You have carried your children? Yes? Yeah, yeah. Okay. And I've carried mine.

I'm adopted, so I always ask that question. But imagine being a mother who is carrying a child knowing that they can't afford this child or that they don't want this child, that this child was unexpected, whatever. But they have to go to terms with it, come to term, you know, go to full term with the baby, give birth, and then immediately hand it off. So I think that energy gets passed on while we're in utero. and I'm not trying to be too, you know, ju-ju-mu-moo-woo here. So I was given up to a foster family where I lived for four months before my parents who were waiting three years to adopt me

received me. So I think that my fear of abandonment and wanting everybody to love me comes from the fact that I was given up, I was abandoned, and I wasn't loved. So growing up, knowing that I was adopted, which my parents told me the whole time, you have a sense of I don't fit in

Where am I? Where do I belong? My parents are not my parents biologically. They are the best parents I could ever ask for, but I don't look like them. I act like them because I grew up in their household. Subculturally, you know, you are what you're around. So for me growing up, I was very selfish. I wanted everything. I didn't have. We did not have a lot of money, but my parents did everything they could to give us what we wanted. and I wanted the attention. I wanted the boys. I wanted to be the cool girl. And the irony was, Gabby, I wasn't any of that. I went into theater because it was the only place where I got attention because I could sing and I could act. And I felt like, I remember the first time I performed in front of school,

I sang New York, New York, Liza Minnelli's version. And the whole school was like, oh, my God, she could sing. And it was a moment of, oh, this is what I could use. the light bulb went off because the boys didn't like me. I was too chunky and I wasn't cute. And the girls dumped me because I was not cool at all. So I was kind of on my own with the freaks and the misfits, hence the bullying. And nobody ever stood behind me.

So when I was young in elementary school, the primary years, I had a lot of friends. And then when changes started happening, they all dropped me. And I remember thinking, I don't know where all. of my friends went. So when I get bullied or beat up physically, there was nobody getting my back. I had people that I grew up with who wouldn't protect me and I didn't understand why. So when it came to a point in later years in secondary school or high school, I realized that I had a big mouth and I was going to use it to defend the ones that weren't being defended. So that's where it comes. That's where it comes from. Started with a gay boy in high school and the cool straight boys,

so to speak, we're picking on them, and I couldn't just stand by. Because nobody was there for me. I was going to be damned if I was going to let that happen to him without at least saying something, and I'll put myself on the line. And that's kind of where it came from. So there's a lot of kids that don't have anybody to stand up for them. There's a lot of people, even older people, that have never felt good about themselves because they've never had anybody in their corner. So I'm not the only one, you know, out here being an ally or an advocate or somebody fighting for their rights. But I just happen to be a loud one. And I think that's why it gets seen and heard.

And if it makes a difference. Yeah, but you can be a loud one and you can act the part. But you don't act. This is very much you. And, you know, the makeup and the look and everything, that's a part of, you know, that we all see. And my God, the makeup and the hair is stunning. But the real you that's under there, you are that loud person who wants to protect others. And I go back to being that everybody sort of looks at you to be the great protector, to be the mother, to be the carer, to be the nurturer.

It's a responsibility. It is a big responsibility. But it's also, I don't look at it as a responsibility. You hear a lot of people, like let's say Taylor Swift, for example, who's like, well, I didn't do this to be a role model. And neither did I, but the responsibility is not as much to me as it is the honor. Because if I can give somebody who doesn't feel loved, even five minutes of feeling what it feels like to be loved genuinely for who they are, even if I don't know them, then I feel like that's what I am here to do.

And it's just a small thing because all it is is time and dignity. It's just, it's just respect. Everybody wants to feel heard. Everybody wants to feel loved and everybody wants to feel like they matter. It's really not rocket science. Are you chopping up something on a plate? It's very funny. I'm trying to work out what that noise is.

It's beans on toast, Gabby. I love that. Oh, my God. You have completely, you've become so, you've come to this side of the pond. It's beans on toast, but it's, you're not going to be happy because I put onions in it because I'm American. So I saute onions first. Try HP sauce in it as well.

I don't love HP sauce. I know it's not very British of me. No, but try it on baked beans. It works on baked beans. I'll give it a try because you said so. What I find so amazing about reading about everything about you and the 1980s and being a part of that whole club scene. And we see it through the eyes, I suppose, before we all knew who you were.

And obviously, everybody in the States knew you before we did. And now you're, you know, you're British as well, as you know. I am indeed. I love it. But we see it in the movies. So we've seen it in the movies about the 80s. We've seen it through Madonna's eyes. We've seen it in pop videos.

But that whole club scene in America, was it as incredible? I would have died of embarrassment because I wouldn't have fit it in. But I would love to have been a fly on the wall because it feels like it was the most monumental time. Everything that you see, it actually really was. And I'm going to tell you right now, I owe a lot of the reason I'm here to it, because of the fact that I didn't fit in,

it got to the point in high school where I had to say, I am either going to do this for me or I'm done because I was having such a hard time getting accepted and getting boys to look at me. Whatever the situation was, it just wasn't happening.

And I felt so alone. And I had one best friend. And we started going to teen nightclubs. And a teen nightclub was, you know, you literally could only go in if you were 13 to 19. If you were 12 or 20, you're out. And it had a, you know, soda bar. So it was basically just cola. And so you couldn't get alcohol. And you were just there to dance. And the club nightlife like was huge for me because I met all these people that were from other towns who didn't know how not cool I was. So these are people who loved me,

accepted me, welcomed me. And I found a new family. So when I moved to New York City and became part of the ballroom scene like you would see on pose. It was through the nightclub scene and that's where I met RuPaul first and foremost. And it was all because of these, these were my people. This was my chosen family because the people who I always tried to assimilate with didn't want me. So how did you and RuPaul meet? You were both there in the club, but who made the move first? Because you two are best friends now and your relationship looks so special, so wonderful. Who made the first move? How did, who made the first move. How did you to become such close friends? You know, it's so funny. So we used to work in this nightclub for a legendary party promoter called Suzanne Barch, who still is doing parties in New York

City. And she's unbelievable. It's actually a really good documentary on Netflix called Suzanne on top, I think, and it's about her way. But anyway, she saw me vogue at a ball and she said, darling, she's from Austria. I won't do a horrible German accent, but she said, darling, I want you to come work for me. And I said, what, God, I sounded Romanian. So I said, what do you want me to do? And she wanted me to run a voging troop. So it was literally me and four beautiful gay children. I was the youngest.

I was, you know, 18 at the time. And these were kids who were like, I don't know, 21, 22. And we would get $300 for working the entire night. And we'd have to split it amongst five of us. And we would get free drink tickets. And I never drank, and I still don't, ever a day in my life. So all they cared about were the drink tickets. So they'd say, girl, you take the money, give us the drink tickets.

It was kind of that thing. And then Roo Paul would be hired to do the same parties. And Roo and I would see each other because Rue was hired to be Rue, this seven foot tall, amazing drag queen. And Lee Bowery was there, the legendary Lee Bowery, Michael Alec, like all these legendary people. And that's how we first met. And then I left kind of the scene because I was in the girl group and we blew up. And when we got really big, we started touring the world. so obviously I wasn't in New York to just do nightlife.

And then I had a song that I wrote and I performed on the bodyguard soundtrack. And RuPaul had a song called Supermodel. And they were both out at the same time in 92. And we did a dance music seminar in New York City. And we were both in the green room getting ready to perform. And I walked up to him and I said, I don't know if you remember me. And he looked at me in the face. And he said, bitch, you are a motherfucking superstar.

I have been watching you. Yes. Do I know who you are? And Gabby, it was the first time in my life that somebody apart from my mother told me that I was a superstar. Like in my head, I envisioned being Madonna 2.0. And it didn't work out that way, but with my pop career, but it was the first time that I was like seen. And that goes back to what I was saying about people just want to feel seen. They want to feel validated. They want to feel like worthy. And it was a moment of really? And he's like, bitch, I've been watching you forever.

And it was a moment that, like, I'll never forget. Obviously, that was 1992. And then time went on. The music career kind of went a different path. And I ended up starting a career in Breakfast Radio. You are brilliant on radio. Wow. Thank you.

You and I have had this conversation. I think you should be on Radio 2 all the time. Oh, thank you so much. You're so sweet. That's really kind of you. But when I first started, I had no idea. I was somebody who just grew up in radio, who loved radio, never went to school for it. I was just always a hustler because my parents worked their asses off and we had nothing. And I didn't want that to be the case. So I was always a hustler. So I went from the music industry and like bullshitted my way into getting a gig and radio. They auditioned me for a brand new radio station, a huge megawatt radio station in New York City. All of the people were in from Chicago that were launching this millions of dollars in this launch. And I auditioned and I had.

had no idea what I was doing, faked it all the way through. And then the next week, they were auditioning somebody else for morning drive. And they said, oh, let's try Michelle doing the traffic. Traffic. I've never done traffic. So I bullshitted my way through doing traffic, making jokes, having fun. So then the third week, they put me in with somebody else. And this guy's been doing radio for a long time in New York. And he said, you're really good. I don't know what you're doing, but you're really good. And he gave me a lot of pointers in that week. And then the final week, they said we have one more person. It was fashion week in New York City. And they said, we have one more person we want to bring in, but we need you for this. And I was like, okay. So it was like, I don't know, in the afternoon. And I'm getting ready to meet the person on an audition with the following week. And in walks, Roo Paul. No way. Yeah. Rue didn't know that I was going to be there. I didn't know that it was going to be Rue. He walks into this hotel room for the meeting. And he looks at me. And I look at him and he goes, of course. Of course it's you sitting here. Who else would it be? all roads lead to Vassage.

And that was in 1996. And then he brought me in at his sidekick on his talk show on VH1 back then, which was a groundbreaking talk show. You know, you have this black drag queen on this talk show that was hugely successful. We were the number two show after, if you remember, the iconic pop-up video. But I've been sitting there watching this old talk show of yours this afternoon. It's fantastic. Yeah.

So then we started working together in 96. and we never stopped. I stayed in radio for a long time and he left the business for a couple years. But then when drag race happened, I was doing mornings in Miami and he said, this is what we're doing.

Please come be a part of it. But they wouldn't let you though, would they at first? They wouldn't let me, Gabby. I had signed... Okay, as you know, in broadcasting, in America, you may not know this. You get contracts.

And most contracts in radio are a year. So it's not unlike being in the military where you're, you know, you're living here for one year, you're here for two years. I got, my kids were very young and I got a five-year deal. So I couldn't pass it up. So I moved to Florida, the last place on earth I'd ever want to live. And I started doing morning drive there. And the boss that hired me got fired like not quite a year into my five-year deal.

And they brought in somebody who was like in. conservative Bible thumper type, which is fine. Everybody is entitled to do their own thing, but this was not going to work with my very pro-gay stance. So when I asked him to be let out of, not let out of my contract, but be able to take my two weeks vacation in America, you only get two weeks vacation on the radio. And one week is Christmas. Oh my word. I know. And they can't be together. Gabby, I had two children via C-section and I only got a week off for each child. You are kidding me. No. C-section. one week off.

You went back to work a week after having your baby girls? One week. They were still on my breast and I was back at work. It's disgusting the way our country handles stuff. So with that said, I went to my boss and said, I just need two weeks off. You don't even have to pay me. Just two weeks so I can go do this show.

And he asked me what it was. And I told him he said, oh, that's not a good look for a radio station. I don't think so. And I said, you are. what? I looked at him. I said, oh my God, you're a homophobe. And he said, oh, no, no, I just don't think it fits in line. And I said, oh, my God. And because I am the sole provider for a family of four, my husband's a stay-at-home dad. If I left that contract in year two of a five-year deal, they would have sued me for four years of pay. So I couldn't do seasons one and two of drag race. And then when series three came around, I have a really dear friend that's a pretty big sitcom. star in America called Leah Remini. The series is called King of Queens. And they do show it here. It's kind of like everybody loves to do. Yeah, I know exactly who she is. Right. So she's my best friend back home. And I told her and she said, Michelle, she was on CBS at the time. And she's, and I was

working for CBS radio. And she said, I will call the president of the company if you don't take this job because they don't just drop television shows into people's laps. I don't care if it's cable. I don't care what it is. You got to do this. So I said, all right, if Leah's going to call on my behalf, I look like an idiot, so I have to call myself. I can't have my friend call on my behalf. I called the president of the company. And he said, absolutely, I have no problem with it. And that's how it happened. I was able to go back. But they didn't, my fifth year of my contract, they didn't renew. So basically, they let me go. But I did one more year at a different radio station. And then I walked away from radio and went strictly into TV. Leah and RuPaul both said, you belong on television. Stop wasting your time chasing.

that gig. Yes. But actually, no, because you can do both. And you do do, you know, as I said, I think you're fantastic at radio. But the thing about drag race, and I hate it when people say, oh, did that change your life? When people ask me about shows that I've done. But in so many ways, it was just, it was the next step for you. But it was a big step, wasn't it? It was a huge step. It was the step I always wanted, Gabby, because I did do television in New York, right? So I did VH1 with RuPaul. And then when VH1 saw me on his show, they used me. me as like a VJ slash red carpet person. So anytime there was a movie premiere or the Grammy Awards, I would be on the red carpet. So I always wanted to be in television, not radio. I love radio.

But television is what I always wanted to do, be an actress. It's what I trained to do. It's what I went to uni for musical theater and to be an actress. So when television started, it was like, this is what I was meant to do. And then it never quite took off in New York. And then I had my kids and that's, you that old story. So I just focused on radio. So then when the TV show started, Rue said, you need to move back out to L.A. because I lived in L.A. for a few years doing radio. He said, you need to come back out there. You belong on television. You are a star. You do what nobody else does. You have a gift that nobody else has. You need to be out here. And I walked away. And I walked away with no money, really. All I had was the money that I had in the bank to live off.

And it was really dodgy until Drag Race really started to take off. And that show is, it's, I'm going to use a strange word, but it's a really special show. It's a very, I mean, it's like nothing else, and that's why I think it works so beautifully. All the queens are fabulous. I've had so many of them that I've interviewed on TV or on my radio show, the American ones and the UK ones. And, I mean, you know, put me in a room of drag queens. I am the happiest person. Same.

That's why you and I are sisters. Oh, my goodness me. Now am I right that it was you that said, I want to do this in the UK? You pushed and pushed and pushed for this. Yeah. So the reason I did Celebrity Big Brother was because I wasn't really known, except within the gay community, I didn't make Katie Price money. You know, so I didn't do it for the paycheck.

My goal, I have been in love with your fair country since I was 13 years old. Like I told you, and I'm not trying to cry poverty, but my family did not have a lot of money. We were lower middle class. We weren't poor, but my parents were. worked. And the one trip we went on as a family was a trip to the UK when I was 13 years old. And we split it amongst me wanting to shop and my brother wanting to see castles. My father rented a car. I remember trying to get petrol for the first time, him hitting the tank. Like it was a nightmare. But it was the, I can't explain the connection I had with this country.

And I still do. I get off the plane at Heathrow and I'm like, oh, okay, I'm home. There's such a connection. and I don't know if it's in a past life. I don't know if you believe in that. I do. I was about to say that to you. I do too. I'm definitely British, English, or something in my past life and probably Northern at that. But for me, there's just a connection with the people here.

And it's such an honor to me to be able to be on BBC Radio 2, to be on strictly. Like, it's not, there's a lot of Americans who come here and do the token reality show, I'm a celebrity, whatever, to be like, oh, my God, I love the UK. but I actually properly love the people here. I love the culture here. I love the food. I love walking the streets. Like, I love it here.

And I'm someone who could tell accents apart, not think Cockney's the same as Lancashire. Do you know what I mean? That's fantastic. I love it. So when Drag Race started to become such a big phenomenon, and I would come over here to perform, the shows would sell out in five minutes like I was Madonna in my head.

So I thought, you know what? British drag is so uniquely itself. and so different from the U.K., I mean, from the U.S., I feel like they deserve their own platform. Because these kids are so talented and they're not, because this show's based in America, they're not being able to be seen for what they are and how unique and different they are. So I did Celebrity Big Brother to bring attention to drag queens and drag world and, you know, the art form known as drag. And that was the goal.

And it took five years. But we never stopped pursuing it. So you just literally, you just made those phone calls, those same phone calls that you made in the beginning and said, right, this has got to happen. Why did it take five years? Why didn't somebody just jump on this? I mean, they're crazy. They're crazy.

It should have happened. But you work in television. It's the commissioners. Yeah, I know. So we've gone to every single channel. Every single. Sky. It was on E4.

They showed a RuPaul's Drag Race U.S. on E4 at like 11 o'clock at night or one in the morning or something crazy. I went to Channel 4, Channel 5, which I did Big Brother on. I went to MTV. I went to, I'm not exaggerating, every single one. Jonathan Ross was helping at one point. Everybody wanted to see it done here. And the commissioners are like, oh, big fan, loved you on Big Brother, and you're great, but we just don't think it's our audience. And it's so ironic that it ended up on probably the most conservative, conservative company of all, the BBC, but I think they understood it. We have some wonderful female commissioners at the BBC. And these are incredible strong women who really understood that this show is special. It is life-altering for so many

people. I'm not just talking about gay kids that are lost. I'm talking about kids that were like my age 13 when I didn't fit in and feel like they have nowhere to turn and they watch drag race and they go, yes, me too, I'm different too. And hetero-couples. And so many people love this show because it's so much more than people dressing up and drag. It's so much more than that. It's the tenacity of the human spirit and the stick-withness and determination for getting the most out of life that you can, despite what societal norms have kind of put upon you.

And you do that all the time, of course. I mean, you really do do that. And I think, you know, as I said, my dad, who's in his 80s, thought you were the most incredible thing on Strictly. I mean, obviously, he hadn't watched Rupor's Drag Race. He doesn't, you know. Right, of course. There's no denying it. And I said, oh, and I was sort of saying every week he'd say, oh, she's marvelous.

Oh, he's lovely. I love the relationship with the two of them. She looks fantastic. So he loved all of that. And then there were kids who got you. And everybody suddenly, the people who didn't know you, they took. you to their hearts. And you felt that because every interview I saw you doing around that, you were so thankful to be doing strictly. So thankful to Giovanni. You loved strictly, didn't you?

Oh, honestly, I asked the exact SJ. I said, can I please come back every year? Listen, I don't even have to compete. I just want to do the dances every week. Just give me a pro that doesn't have a celeb. And can I just compete? I had the best time of my life. Really? Really? More than the other stuff? Oh, different. Different. Different because I challenge. This is something that I challenged myself to that I was completely out of my wheelhouse. Look, shaking your, your bum in a disco is very different to learning how to actually dance. So I've never done anything like that. So for me, it was like the best experience of my entire life. Okay, that's my husband's like, hello, getting married, having children. I'm like, calm down.

That's not the point. The point is like, I never thought I can challenge myself to do something like that and be accepted and be like the judges say such amazing things. It's like unbelievable. So when I watch it, and by the way, it was the only show I really ever wanted to do in this country. Celebrity Big Brother I did because I wanted our show to get made. Strictly I did because I want to do. I just wanted to do it so much. So it was the best experience.

But you're also, you carried on dancing. You love it. You properly love it. People may not know this. I've talked about a little bit. The launch show on Strictly, I hurt my knee, and I had an MRI, and I was told that it was just inflammation, not an injury. So I danced the whole 11 weeks with a knee brace on, getting physio three times a week,

and it turned out it was an injury. And I didn't find out until I left when I went to an orthopedic specialist, and I needed surgery. Oh, my word. So I tore my meniscus. So I did that whole competition on a torn meniscus. And that's why I was like, can I come back? Because imagine how I can dance if my knee was normal. So I left.

I went home. I had surgery. And the reason I'm telling you this is two weeks after my surgery, I went right straight back into dancing. And I haven't stopped. I do it at least once a week for three hours, sometimes more. I have found myself through Latin and ballroom dance. Like I found this second part of my life, you know,

moving into the second half of my life, something that I really love to do. And it's so rewarding when you can leave a dance class going, oh, I looked good doing that today, or I mastered this that I've been trying. On strictly, it's different. You get one, not even a week. You get four days to really learn how to do a dance and you have to do that dance and then you move on to the next. So if you had to recall that dance, you'd be like, oh, how did that one go? So now I can focus on it and really learn how to do it properly with a good knee. How amazing. When I, another thing, I read about you was that as a child you had these big dreams. You wanted to be an act. You wanted to do all these things. And now you, if you, if that child now was watching you, you are doing,

you are fulfilling those dreams, aren't you? But I imagine for you that the dreams carry on and they grow and you've still got things that you want to do and dreams that you want to fulfill. Gabby, what would we be without those dreams? Yeah. I mean, that's what keeps us going. dreams and hopes and faith. And for me, absolutely, there's so many things I want to do on the television front, on the film front. And, you know, even over here, there's so many things that I want to do over here. I want to probably be here closer to full time. I love this country. So I have to think about my kids when they get out of uni. My husband's dying to come over here. We love it here. Build a proper, you know, house here and a life and television here. I love so

much. I love UK television. So you're not going to get rid of me anytime soon, dear God. Thank goodness for that. All my American friends will say, you don't know how lucky you are. Oh, your TV. I'm going to go, but no, look what you've got. Look what you've got. And it is, there is a magical relationship between the UK and America. There really is. Indeed. And I think New Yorkers like myself, I think the reason I connect is because there's a lot of similarities between London and New York. I love New York. Yeah, me too. It's the greatest city in the world. Sorry. I had to say it. It's the only place that when I get there, I feel like I can do 100 press-ups with a clap in between each one.

Because it's the most energizing place. I'm telling you, it's the similarities. There's something about it because I'm New York, you know, and for me coming here, it's like, oh, yeah, there's a rhythm. You understand the rhythm. You understand the beat. And the subculture and cultural things that you all have in this country, they tickle me. I love everything about it. I love learning things. I love hearing about things.

Colloquialisms, ways of life, the way northerners live, you know, versus somebody in Cornwall or somebody in, you know, whatever. It's just so interesting to me. I was even, and I don't want to admit this, but I was even looking online for UK geography lessons just so I know what I'm talking about. I know. And I hate geography, but I want to know where people are talking about when they're talking about, you know, being from a place and learning how to pronounce them.

I'm on the radio saying Shire when Shire is only in Lord of the Rings. You are fantastic. You are so lovely. Right, the question that I always ask everybody on this podcast is what makes you properly laugh? What gets you absolutely and flaws you with giggles? There's nothing funnier than a person that can laugh at themselves. I think it's the most joyous thing in the world when somebody could do something and just laugh and see their stupidity.

I love that. I celebrate that. Obviously, people hurting themselves is not funny, but people bust in their ass and cracking up and being totally fine about it. Or even like walking into things, you have to laugh. Yes. As long as they're okay. Yeah, it is very funny.

Walk into a tree and you make me happy. Agreed. Michelle, you are a complete dream. Thank you. Have a fabulous beans on toast meal. Thank you, Gabby Rossin. May you carry on being as gorgeous as you really are. Thank you. And you. I'm so glad that I got to meet you. I wish it were in better times right. I could have given you a big cuddle. But I will do it next time. I'm honored to be a guest. Thank you for having me. Thank you for such kind words. And you are welcome in my house any day for beans on toast. And you mine too. Thank you so much for listening. Please join me on the next episode where my guests will be the wonderful Rob Brydon. That Gabby Roslin podcast is proudly produced by

Cameo Productions, music by Beth McCari. Please press the subscribe button and it will come straight to your phone on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you choose to listen. Also, please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts.