That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Nadiya Hussain

Episode Date: March 28, 2021

In this episode Gaby chats to the hugely talented cook, writer & presenter Nadiya Hussain MBE. They talk about her gorgeous cookbooks, most recently ‘Nadiya Bakes’ and her sweet children’s book ‘My Monster & Me’. She talks openly about her relationship with her mother, her own parenting and baking during lockdown. You’ll also hear about her incredible work helping to dispel myths about mental health in the Bangladeshi community. Plus, what it was like to bake for The Queen and a very sweet story about why Mary Berry is now The Queen in their household! Produced by Cameo Productions, music by Beth Macari.  Join the conversation on Instagram and Twitter @gabyroslin #thatgabyroslinpodcast  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of That Gabby Rosin podcast. On this week's episode, I chat to the hugely talented and honest world changer Nadia Hussein. We talk about her gorgeous cookbooks, most recently Nadia Bakes and her very sweet children's book, My Monster and Me. Her relationship with her mother, her own parenting and baking in lockdown. Also, her incredible work helping to dispel myths about mental health in the Bangladeshi community. community, plus what it was like to bake for the queen and a very sweet story about why Mary Berry is now the queen in her household. Please can I ask you a favor? Would you mind please subscribing by pressing the subscribe or follow button on the show? And then if you wouldn't mind,

rate and review on Apple Podcasts, which is the purple app on your iPhone or iPad. You simply scroll down to the bottom of all of the episodes and you'll see the stars where you can tap to rate and press write a review. It would mean the world to us. Thank you so much. Hello, lovely Nadia. I just heard you're not feeling 100%. What's the matter?

I'm not sick. I just don't feel myself, I suppose. Soup. I know a good cook who could cook you some nice soup. Problem is I have to cook it. That's the problem with being sick. It's like, even yesterday, it was like I was looking at everyone's like,

guys, I don't feel like cooking. You have to get up, you just have to get up and do it. I mean, they're great. They're helping the house and help around the kitchen. but ultimately it's me that has to get up and do it. And I'm bad at looking after myself, greater looking after everybody else. As a parent, once you have kids,

you just, you have to put yourself lost. Always. And when I, God forbid, put myself somewhere at the top where, I don't know, I might go and see my mom. And that's a thing that I have to do because, like, I have a responsibility to my mom. If I have to go and see my, oh, you're going to nun who's, oh, can we come?

Oh, it's not fair. You always get to go and see her. I was like, guys, I just want to see my mom. Leave me alone. It's great that they want to see their grandma, but sometimes I just want to go and see my mom, and that's not even selfish. And most of the time she spends telling me off,

so it's not like I go there for a treat. Does she really? What does she tell you off about? Oh, everything. I'm like petrified about it. I mean, even if I have a haircut, and it all gets round because I showed my sisters, and she's already seen a picture before I've even spoken to her.

And she said, oh, I've seen what you've done to your hair. I've seen. And I was like, okay. And then I'm trying to cover my head with a tea towel. And she's like, no, no, let me see. No, let me see. And then she's like, oh, no, you look like a boy. You look like a boy.

And so she, like she's one of those parents, like a lot of our parents. There's just no filter. And I quite like that because I think we live in a world where we are so almost gagged of an opinion sometimes that it's refreshing to go home to parents who just say it like it is, I quite enjoy that. It's really liberating to go to parents who just say, no, no, you know, your fat looks fat in that. And it's like, oh, okay, thanks, mom. I quite like it. Are you like that as a mother? No, I'm the complete opposite. I'm, I'm, no, yeah, I can't, I can't do the whole, like sometimes I might say something, but I'm the kind of parent who

apologizes. Like, when I've done something wrong, I will say, I'm sorry, but I wasn't raised in a family where the parents ever apologize. They were always right. Whatever they did, whatever have they said we didn't get to question it or interrogate them about it. So I'm the complete opposite where I don't always, I don't sugarcoat, I do tell the truth, I've been better at it. This time last year I made a resolution and said, I'm not going to lie anymore. I'm not going to create small lies to get myself through things. So I was like, no, always tell the truth. This is mostly for my children where I would tell them something just to kind of spare them. But actually when you tell the truth, it's quite lovely to tell them the truth. If it's not going to hurt them,

the truth isn't a problem. It's quite liberating to be able to tell your children the truth. Well, if, okay, all right, let's do one of those scenarios. Yeah. So they've just brought back some artwork from school. They're super proud of it and you think it is complete rubbish. It's the worst thing you've ever seen. Don't tell me you're going to say it's complete rubbish. No, I'll say I'll find a room where it looks nice. There's got to be a room where it looks nice, right? The second I've said that, they'll work it out. I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, there's definitely a room in the house somewhere where we can, and I think if it goes into the utility, they'll know that it's probably not that great.

And what would your mum have said if you brought home that piece of artwork? Oh, she'd chuck it straight in the bin. That's so funny. She would chuck it straight in the bin. I love that. As a youth, when I was younger, I used to find it quite hurtful and I used to hate that she wasn't, I mean, I grew up in a community of Bangladeshi, so no mother was unlike mine. they were all the same. They were all telling all of us the truth. So there were these bitter,

angry teenagers all in school together. So I didn't know any different. So I used to think, oh, God, I wish you would just kind of just once just say, oh, actually, that looks quite nice on you, or actually you look quite pretty today, or I'm really proud of you, things like that. And really, it's really weird because, like, now that I'm older, I really appreciate her honesty, because we do live in a world where you can't really tell the truth anymore. You can't really say how you feel all the time. You're always met with some sort of debate or some argument. And I quite like that.

I can go to my mum and she just says, you know what? No, actually, that's not okay or that's not acceptable. And that can't be done. And I like the honesty sometimes. So she's the only place I can go to to get some real, real home truths. So that's why I see her. I see her enough. But would you not like her to say, I mean, has she said now as an adult that she's

proud of you? Never in the words, not the actual words. Really? Yeah, because I don't think, I don't even know how to say it in Bengali. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say it in, and I speak Bengali, so I don't know how you would say, I'm proud of you in Bengali because I've never actually heard the words in the language. That's interesting. Yeah. So maybe it's just not in the psyche.

No, I don't think, I just think there's this certain cultures where praising your children or raising them above parents isn't natural. and no matter what I do, no matter what job I do, no matter how many episodes of cookery shows or books I publish, none of that is going to make me higher than my parents in terms of the hierarchy. And it shouldn't because they are up there and that's exactly where they should be. And if I go to a house, then I will, you know, I'll get in there, take my scarf off. If something needs hovering, I'm like, right, come on then, I'm going to hoover, I give it a little tidy up. And I can do that. And I love that. I can do that because often I can't, I can't go to anyone else's house and do that. And I love that my mom. You can come here if you

want to Hoover. Seriously, you can cook and Hoover and that's it. I mean, you're always welcome, Nadia here. Let's talk about your new cookbook that when you, each time you get a cookbook out, do you still have that feeling? I remember chatting to you, gosh, it was a while ago. I think it was. Yeah, it was. It was maybe two books ago. and you were saying it's quite frightening putting your book out there because it's so much a part of you and then suddenly everybody's picking it up and reading it. Do you still feel like that?

Oh yeah, there's this moment just before. I can't quite explain it. There's like a seven, eight, ten days between publication and me sat down and just it dawns on me. It's just I can't quite believe because a lot of hard work goes into creating a cookbook And I'm lucky enough that I get to do a cookery show. I've done a cookery show now.

It's my third one. So to be able to do that. And there's a lot of work. And I think it's been particularly difficult because of lockdown. Because, you know, the book was released a little bit later. And so things moved and shifted. You know, I think we're all quite fragile. We're all emotional.

And we're all struggling. And we've got different struggles that we're dealing with right now. And my hope was that this book would create some light in the dark and give people something to concentrate on. something to have fun with, something to enjoy. And I think, yeah, it is always really scary, but social media is wonderful in that I get to see people cooking, baking from it, getting really excited, asking questions. And that's what it's all about. That is what it's all about because now more than ever we need some distraction. And I really hope that it's a sweet, cakey distraction

for people. Oh, it certainly is. And that's what you do. And you're a joy. Well, you know, I think that because every time I see you, I just tell you what a joy you are. I think you're a world change it. I really, really do. I do believe that of you. Doing a book, it's very interesting. You say it's hard work. And I think a lot of people, and why should they know, they just, they get their cookbooks, they love you, they get a cookbook. Oh, good, another one. And they don't really think about the hard work that's involved in putting that book out there. They just think it, oh, well, I'll write it. Takes me a couple of days. We'll do some pretty photos done. That's not the case with a cookbook, is it? No, it's months and months of writing the recipes. And the thing

is for me is I don't like I have a I have a small kitchen very small kitchen people always ask me have you got a lovely kitchen oh you know what it's you know what no it's it's small it's small and it's not ideal for work and domestic and home and all of that because from my kitchen I cook meals for my kids and I test recipe after recipe so every single recipe gets tested in my kitchen before it even goes to another tester so all 120 recipes get done within a few months from my heart and house, I write them up, I send everything over to my editor who then sends it to a recipe tester. They get tested twice over. They get sent back to me. I make amendments and then I send them back complete. And then we put in photography. We do all the photography for the book within sort of

14, 12, 14 days. And then it's just, you know, gets edited and put together. And then between all of that, we're kind of dealing with the cookery show at the same time. So it's from start to finish. months to a year? When I said it's hard work, I actually didn't realize it was that long. That's my ignorance because I've never made a cookbook. Yeah, it's back and forth, quite a lot of back and forth. And I'm a little bit kind of like, it's detailed for me, it's really important. And I mean, it would take a little bit less time if, because I write every recipe from home.

So, like, I know some people, they don't always write the recipes from home. They get tested elsewhere and other people test them and write them and they come back. But there's that extra step of me saying, I need two months to write these recipes. myself at home. So when you're kind of making a spaghetti bolognese for the kids in trying to test a cake three times that's flopped, it's kind of, it's always a little bit tricky. So I was asked for a little bit. I'm like, no, I need a couple of months at home. Just stop. Just stop. No, no, sorry. We can't just sweep over that. You just said a cake that's flopped. Surely you don't get floppy cakes. Come on. No, not floppy cakes. You, I get floppy cakes. You don't get floppy cakes.

It's usually the flavor. So sometimes I might make something and think, oh, I don't know if I like that flavor. And I'm quite lucky in that. I've got three children who are so critical. So they've definitely got something of my mom's genetics. Your mom, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If there's something they don't like, they'll just say, mom, that's not nice.

And I'll just change it. They're really good at tasting recipes. But usually things like I might make a cake once and then put one icing on it and think, oh, I don't know if I like that icing. And then I'll make the cake again and maybe make a different ice cream. and see if it looks nice or if it tastes nicer. So it's also aesthetics. Does it look nice?

Does it taste nice? Does it hold properly? And I mean, I could be doing one cake all day. Wow. One cake all day. But I mean, that being said, I have very good neighbours who are willing to take the cake, usually. Now, listen, if you're going to have a neighbour, you're going to want you as a neighbour. Let's be honest, especially during lockdown.

Did you spend a lot of time making all your neighbours' cakes and food? I bet you did. You would think that I did, but just like everybody else. I don't, I mean, I don't have a special butter and egg and flour supplier. I like everybody else, have to go to the supermarket for that. And the stockpilers got to it before I did. So, I mean, I'm lucky because we've got chickens. We get four to maybe six eggs a day. Love chickens. Yeah, eggs-wise, we didn't have a problem. So, but we had to ration. So if we wanted cake, then we couldn't have eggs for breakfast two days. So we had to really think

about that and that's something that my kids have never had to do. A lot of our kids will have never had to think about, well, if I'm going to have eggs today, then I can't, Mom can't bake a cake? So sometimes my kids wake up. So can we have eggs for breakfast? And I just say, I've got a recipe that I have to test and I need at least eight eggs. So they won't be able to have eggs for breakfast. So little things like that, they've never experienced before. So but like everybody else, I ran out of flour. I ran out of sugar. I ran out of butter. So, you know, we had to be very careful. So when I did make, cake, it didn't last long enough for the neighbours to get any.

One of the things that I loved, when you're on your own website, there's a quote at the bottom. If I may quote this back to you, because I think this is just perfect. Here's for today, so we may live to dream tomorrow. Do you still dream? Do you still have dreams? Oh, I'm the biggest dreamer and much to my husband's annoyance because we are. very different in character because I dream. I'm such a, yeah, I am I am such a dreamer. I think about you know, where my life could take me. I think about all the wonderful things. I mean, the one thing I do do a lot of is imagine having this amazing like Willy Wonka type kitchen. Just I, I do, I just imagine this because I love kind of, okay, so what's your dream kitchen like then? Explain it. Oh gosh. Oh,

it would have tall, tall ceilings, like the ones that you have up north, not the ones down here. Because we live in Milton Keynes and they're all very new houses and I just, I don't like the ceilings here. But really tall ceilings and one end of my kitchen would have just a wall of, wall of books like the library in Beauty and the Beast and I have a ladder that would go across and I could swing across and get all my cookbooks. I would love an auger maybe one day. I would have a massive island and it would, I don't, and I just, I have this dream of this beautiful kitchen. that I could, like, the kids could be at one end having dinner. I could be right at the other end testing recipes and we'd have to get binoculars to see each other.

That's how big it would be. I don't care about the rest of the house. I don't care about the rest of the house. Bedrooms are for sleeping in. Who cares? Like, who cares? Like, the kitchen has to have the, like, for me, that's the dream to have this beautiful kitchen.

I love the books everywhere as well because, I mean, you're not only do you write, because also your kids' books. Let's talk about your kids' books because they are incredible. your kids' books are, there's a tremendous honesty. Funnily enough, you're talking about honesty, honesty and warmth in your kids' books. You've got another kid's book out. Where do you find the time?

I'm a dreamer, like I was saying, my husband who's a complete opposite, he always, whenever I say, I really want to do this thing? And he always says, do you really have time to do this thing in between everything else that you're doing? And funnily enough, I weirdly can make that time. And sometimes when I have something that's bubbling away inside, I have a notebook by the side of my bed, that I quickly jot things down so I don't forget them

and then I wake up in the morning and revisit them. And writing children's books has been really important to me because like growing up, we didn't necessarily, there was no culture of reading your children a story before bed or reading in general. And I only really discovered a library, the mobile library, where we were when I was, oh gosh, I think about 11 maybe. So it's the first time I'd step foot in a library

of any sort. And it was a mobile library, a van that would come and kids would get their turn to pick up a book. And I didn't step foot in a library till I was 17. 17. Goodness me. Wow. Yeah. So reading culture wasn't a big thing in growing up. So it's always been something that has been important to me for my children and having books everywhere, just them lying around everywhere. And every window sill, every bookshelf, everything has a book. Whether it's one that that's sentimental or one that you could just pick up and have a look at and read. My kids love reading. My kids love reading. And so that's where writing picture books became really important, especially for children at a young age, because that's when I started to read

to my kids. And they knew what a book was very early on and turning pages and that kind of anticipation. And so, you know, writing this one, today, I'm strong. All of my books are about dealing with feelings and expressing emotions and finding strength in yourself. And that's the kind of pattern they all seem to follow. And this one has been really important because it is about finding your voice and it's about being strong and finding that strength. And working with Ella Bailey, creating the illustrations, was just, just brings the whole thing to life. Well, they're beautiful. As everything that you touch, I'm going to keep saying it throughout because you know, I think you're amazing. Oh, you're lovely. The thing about

the strength and having this inner strength, that obviously comes from everything that you've been through. And you talk so openly about mental health. And I think what you've done has lifted it from being sort of one of those quietly discussed things, especially in your community where people, you know, as you say about your mother, she's very honest and everybody, the family sticks together. But being out and open about panic attacks and all the rest of the things, It's just been so empowering for your community and for everybody to see. Do you feel empowered by coming out and talking about it? Do I feel empowered?

I'd like to, I suppose you feel like for someone like me who never used to speak about it before, to come out and say something so openly that doesn't get spoken about. I mean, when I speak to you, when I speak to other people, like we're quite open about talking about mental health and how important it is. but there's that moment where I can kind of be somewhere where I'm within a, kind of within my family or members of my own community or Bangladeshi people. And there's a silence that just afraid will never go away because even now, to this day, I have never openly spoken about my mental health to my parents.

They have watched the documentary and they know that I suffer with mental health issues, but we've never spoken about it. And it's not something that I've tried to broach with them and I've tried to speak, but they don't speak about it because there is no terminology. There is no terminology for mental health illness within our community. Often it's, there are different words used such as, oh, she's gone mad or they have been possessed. Oh my word. Yes, or they're on drugs. So there are different ways of explaining or understanding mental health through a different avenue, but there's no actual word to explain mental health issues or a mental health illness. So how can you talk

about something that doesn't even have a word that isn't even in their vocabulary. So for me, as a Bangladeshi woman, talking about mental health isn't as easy within my community as it is outside of mine. So yes, it's liberating, but I'd love to be in a position where I could speak about mental health issues within my community and people not saying, well, even people within my own generation do not like the word and say, I don't want my family to have that label. I don't my kids to have that label. So I don't want to see a doctor. I don't want to do all of that. So there's a massive stigma attached to it, even within people within my generation who understand it. So there's a lot of work to be done and it won't be done via one documentary and a couple of books.

It's just not going to happen. It's way to a complicated situation for one for one book or documentary to fix. So it's something that I work on all the time every day because it is liberating in moments, but really the truth is I've got a long way to go. We've got a long way to go to dispel the myths that come with mental health illness. Isn't that extraordinary that it's still, you know, do not discuss. Naively that we've all seen the documentary, we've spoken about it before, but naively, I thought that your parents, your community would embrace you. But there are many communities where this is exactly the same, exactly the same. You just, you don't talk about it. You don't talk about mental health issues. You don't talk about sexuality. You

don't talk about all of those things. And it's sort of swept under a carpet. So I mean, I applaud you, loudly applaud you for what you're doing and the work that you continue to do. How do you feel when you read that you're in the top 100 most influential people in this country? And also, when you read, there's a wonderful quote from an MP who says that you've done more for relations and people understanding the Muslim community than anybody.

else has done. And you've only been in the public eye for the past five years. You've done an immense amount, Nadia. It's incredible. I'm proud of you. I'm not your mum, but I'm proud of you. I know. I know. Thank you. I don't really, I think if I think about the, if I just think of the kind of the size of what you've just said, I think I'd be slightly overwhelmed because I work every day to kind of manage my own mental health. So when I think about, oh my goodness, the responsibility of those sentences that you just repeated, I would, I think it would blow my mind. Sometimes it feels really stressful, the responsibility of being, of being a role model, because the reality is, you know, I only ever wanted to be a role model to my children. And,

and it's definitely much bigger than that. And that in itself, you know, I've got two teenage boys. I'm my little girl turned 10. Just like, that's it, double digits. That's, I will never have a little, she'll always be a baby, but, you know, they're just getting big now. And the responsibility of being a role model to them, but also dealing with the trials of having teenagers, which, my goodness, my goodness, nobody warned me. Yes, welcome to that world. Nobody warned me that it's not fun.

No, but also there are some very funny things that happen. You wait until your daughter becomes a teenager, girls at teenager. What were you like as a teenager? Oh, I was all of my three kids put together. I was horrible. And I'm paying for that now. I know I'm paying for that now because, Like, I've got a 13-year-old and a 14-year-old.

And at the time when I had them one after the other, and the midwife, after I had my first one, the midwife said, I'll see you next year. And I said, get lost. I was back next year. And I was having my second son. How did you do that? I mean, I don't tell. I know. I know how you did it.

Yeah, that's a different podcast altogether. But, but yeah, it was at the time, it was lovely having two babies who were just kind of like, they just kind of, they just, they felt like twins. And now, as teenagers, I'm like, oh, my goodness. This morning, the 13-year-old just howled at my little girl, just howled at her and just shouted at her. And she just said, Mommy, I know, get it. They're just always so mean and moody. And I was like, oh, my goodness, I feel really sorry for her because actually she's having to deal with whatever it is that I'm dealing with

because they're actually really grumpy at the moment. You wait until she gets to 13 or 14. Oh, gosh. Really? Everyone's warning me and telling me that it's not. No, it does. My oldest, she, you know, no, no, mommy. She turned off the light.

The next morning, yeah. what? It literally was overnight and now she's back again. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. So they do come back. Yeah, yeah. Oh, they come back. They come back. They come back. Nalia, what makes you laugh? Because your giggle is infectious and your smile. You've got the most beautiful smile. What makes you laugh? What makes me laugh? What did, I don't know. I think it's usually, well, it's, I think silliness. And I think as the kids have become older, we've learned to be really silly together. And my husband, who's like, the most logical, very serious human being ever is really silly, like really, really, really silly. Like, how? How? Oh, gosh, he does, oh, he's, so he's, like, he's an amazing, he plays guitar and he's an amazing, he sings, he's got an amazing voice. And he does silly things, like, he turns really ridiculous things into songs. So he will, you know, he would turn Trump speeches into songs and, and it just, it just makes me laugh because it's really silly. And Trump speeches

into songs. Yeah, he puts music to Trump speeches, is all I'm saying, is my husband. And nobody needs that. Nobody needs that in their life. The kids have become really in their kind of weird, moody teenageness. They also are, they just love it when we're a little bit silly. And they do voices and things. And just this weekend, we got cards against humanity, the kid version. Oh, the kids one. Okay, that's good. Yeah, not the, not the adult one, not the adult one, but the kids version. And it is the silliest game I've ever played in my whole entire life. And it's, but it made us laugh all weekend.

So for anyone who wants to play a game that is really silly and talks a lot about poop, then definitely, definitely get that game because we giggled so much this weekend. And I tell you what makes me laugh is when, like, terrible things happen, like when my husband falls and stuff like that. That usually makes me laugh. It's my favorite thing.

Literally, if somebody walks into the tree, I am the happiest person. As long as they're not hurt, it makes me pee myself, I laugh so much. Yeah, I just, it's, I don't know what it is about other people's pain that's quite funny sometimes, which is terrible to say, but the other day, a bird flew into my window, into my son's bedroom window. And I just, I shouldn't have, I laughed really, smack. And then I, and it flew off, it was fine. It didn't even get, it didn't even look days, just flew off. And I was, it was hilarious. And I laughed and I said, oh, at least my window's clean.

Always look at the bright side. Right, let's go back to the kitchen, right? So when you're sitting in the kitchen and there's absolutely nothing there because I'm not a particularly good cook, I like, I know the flavors I like, okay. I think I discussed with you before about how I'd never baked a cake and you were so shocked. Still haven't. There we go. Not even banana bread. Because that was the thing, wasn't it? Lockedown banana bread in. Sourdough? No, I... No desire to? No desire to? Because I don't eat it, I think that's probably why I don't. My husband, you know, he just gives me that, please make cake look. And when I bring your books home and when I said I was talking to you, do you think you could something about cake? And I just,

no, I just, I don't know why I'm fearful of cake. I just have that sort of fear. But I know the flavors that I like. But if I sit in the kitchen and try and think of concocting something, You know, can you just go, ah, I'll whip this up. Please tell me that's what it's like in your world. Well, yeah, I think it is. It is a lot like that. It's just kind of like, if I look at things that I've got at home and I'm like, oh, I'm just going to make a bit of that. And I'm a bit of, when it comes to cooking and being in the kitchen, I'm a bit of forward thinking that when I can, I try and make two things at once.

If I'm going to spend an hour and a half in the kitchen and I'm going to turn my horrible induction hob on, then I'm going to turn it on and I'm going to make use of that time. So I'll put two things on. So, like, today I'm going to go down and cook some dinner for the kids. But at the same time, like, they want lentils, they want lentil soup for lunch tomorrow. So I will put the lentil soup on at the same time. So I'll do two things at the same time. Then I'm not having to slave tomorrow. And then usually when I cook dinner, there's enough leftovers that I can kind of bulk up with some vegetables.

So today I'll be in the kitchen, but the intention is not to be in it tomorrow. So I can do other things. And so it's all about forward thinking and planning slightly. And, you know, we have no cake in the house. But I said to the kids, if you want cake, you've got the weekend, you bake it yourself. And so they're just not something up themselves, banana bread or... Oh, no, don't. Now that puts me that...

Oh, come on. The man needs a banana bread. Give him some banana bread at least. Go on. No, he just, he wants cake cake. He just want proper cake. Okay. What was it like making cake cake for the queen?

That was a bit of a surreal moment for me because it was one of those things. I saw the email and I said, okay, that's just a hoax. And then my agent said, no, no. that that's for real. So I happened to just be, when I got the email, I then flew out to Bangladesh to film Chronicles of Nardia out there. And while I was out there, I was kind of scrambling for paper and a pen in the tip of the ganges while I was looking out with my binoculars for blind dolphins and trying to create this design on how to do this cake and try and send it over. So it was one of those things that was just slightly surreal. And I think had I thought about

the real, because I just feel like because I was so naive to the fact that I was making a cake for the queen, it was just all very, it's just really weird because I suppose I didn't, you know, growing up in an immigrant home, like my parents are not royalists, you know, like they're not, they're not at all interested in the royal family, not one tiny bit, you know, they don't, like, they know who they are from Diana onwards. They've been interested, but anything before Diana, not really, they're not that interested. So for them, it wasn't really a big deal at all. Like, so I suppose I didn't realize how big a thing it was, but it was scary. It was very scary. See, like, what flavor do you, I mean, of all the cakes that I've made in my whole life,

and there are hundreds and hundreds of cakes and flavors? Like, what do you make for the queen? And so when I asked my little girl, this is how I did it. I went, I asked my little girl, I said, what flavor cake do you think I should make for the queen? And she said, oh, but you've already baked a cake for the queen. And I said, no, no, I haven't. She goes, yeah, you have. And I was like, no, I haven't. Who are you talking about? And she was adamant. I'd baked a cake for the queen. I said, no, no, no, I really haven't. And she said, yes, Mary Berry's the queen, right? And I was like, oh, oh, no, no, she's not the queen. And she's like, oh, yes, she is. And I was like, no, really, she isn't. And she argued with me. This is a four-year-old at the time. She said, no, Mary Barry's the queen.

She was convinced. And I said, okay, so, no, this is the queen. And she said, I don't know who that old lady is, because she's not the queen. And so she said, and she said, you can't make a lemon drizzle for her. She said, you can't make a lemon drizzle for her because you've made one for the queen.

And I'm like, okay, I'm really getting confused. It was a very confusing conversation. So I decided on an orange drizzle and she felt that the queen, the real queen, should always get second best to Mary Berry. And I, in some ways,

I don't mind because it's like, we love Mary Berry in our house. We adore her. And in our world, Mary Berry is our queen. Thank you very much. That is the perfect place to end this. You are a joy. And I really do mean it, Nadia. And I've said it to you before and I'm saying it to you again and please take it. And I honestly from my heart, I think you are a world changer. I think you're an opinion changer.

And I think you're a truly good soul. So thank you for doing this. Thank you so much. That's so kind. As always. Bless you. And next time I speak to you, I'd like to know that you've made a cake. Oh, I knew you were going to say that. Do it, do it, do it. Shh, shh. My husband's going to hear this. No, shh.

Thanks for listening, and next week, my guest is the wonderful Jason Watkins, the star of The Crown, the Nativity Films, Des, and MacDonald and Dodds. That Gabby Rawlsing podcast is proudly produced by Cameo Productions. Music by Beth McCari. Please press the subscribe button, and it will come straight to your phone on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you choose to listen. Also, please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts.