That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Oscar and Rae Duke

Episode Date: September 22, 2025

Dr Oscar Duke and Rae Duke join Gaby for their first ever podcast together! They chat all things joy, empathy, and the amazing things that people will tell (and show) a doctor! The couple met at University and are both complete joy spreaders - through their work and attitudes. Gaby tries to embarrass Oscar (who famously cannot be embarrassed) and also attempts to get them both to do panto. Oh yes she does! Remember you can watch all of our episodes on YouTube channel - where you'll also find our little extra nugget of joy every Friday (our Show N Tell episode!) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oscar and Ray Duke, Mr and Mrs Duke. You know what, if you become a Duke, will you be Duke Duke? I know. I think Lord Duke. Is that what you're going for? That's what I'm going for. Lord Duke. Lord and Lady Duke. Then you can get multiple titles. Yes.

If you become a Lord, you're a Lord doctor on you, or are you a Doctor Lord? Oh, I think Lord. I think Lord Trump's doctor, doesn't it? I don't know. We need, what's it called? DeBrette. There's Robert Winston. He was Lord Robert. Lord. Oh.

We have this issue with my dad, don't me, because he's just got a doctorate, but he's also a reverend. And so it's like which way. So which is he? He just said, he goes for the reverend first because that's what means the most thing to him. Exactly. But I think that's a real doctorate. Once you have a PhD, they're very rude about us, medical doctors.

It's an honorary thing for doctors. Is it? I mean, you don't get it. You haven't got a PhD. I mean, lots of doctors do get PhDs. But you're a doctor. It's a nice title. And you're a real doctor.

It's a good title. I'm sorry. Sorry to your dad. It's nice when you finish university and there's your title. There's your title. If the Lord is not forthcoming in every way, then albeit I'll remain Dr Duke. Doctor and Mrs Duke. Oh, I love that.

Thank you for both coming on together because I know you both separately because of Radio 2 with you, Ray, and Morning Live with you, Oscar. And now your podcast. So many things that I want to talk to you about and I'm so delighted this is your first time together. I know. Thank you, Gabby.

We started by having to find our way here. First time. Both of our Google Maps. Did you do that way? Guess who sorted the route. Right. Yeah, obviously. Do you take control of everything?

Would you say so? A lot. A friend of mine has this lovely phrase, CEO of the home. That's just like, you know, all of the admin that comes with, you are CEO. Yeah.

Oh, actually that makes sense. It's very sweet to, you know. But I'm never at home. That's the problem. I'm always. work. Almost always. You're always at work

because you are a real doctor. All jokes aside. No, you are a proper real doctor. Not a Lord, but a real doctor. Yes, you are a real doctor.

And a Duke. But also, if there's a medical issue, do you think you're a doctor? Because I can't... Oh, you don't. No, that I absolutely would... No, Ray can't even watch casualty

or that kind of level. Like, Ray's mum, who I get on with very well, is a, it was a midwife and a nurse and a health visitor. And she used to watch casualty, didn't she? But you couldn't bear to watch. Really? It's too gruesome.

Yeah, that's not my thing at all. So we're very, very different, I think, in areas of interest, but then also... Occasionally, Ray, will find a photo in my phone that somebody has sent me of their child's rash or whatever it might be. The things his patients send him, Gabby. I don't know if I want to know. You know, really don't. And she just can't look? No. What happens with your own kid?

You're... And that's amazing. I mean, most of my friends, they've had to go to A&E because you phone 1-1-1, and that's where they send you. but I think as we have you We did have a recent trip actually to poor little teddy our youngest absolutely face planted into the pavement Was he all right? Well he was all right wasn't he But he had a cut on his head which was bleeding quite a lot

I thought it's fine You know I used to work in He sterry strips out We had some people It's always happens isn't it Just as someone we had some people coming over for a barbecue Some chaos and blood everywhere And so I sterry stripped his head

And he said every time he laughed The stery strip just sort of pop off it We just need a bit of that glue But of course you don't have that glue work in A&E. So back to a good old King's College Hospital. We went where I used to work. Many a night shift.

Okay, so let's go back to you and your doctoring and all of that. Was this something that you always wanted to do? Yeah, I think it was. There was definitely a phase where I wanted to be a lifeboat man. And barrister crossed the horizon as well. My dad was a doctor, but very kind of unpushy about me being a doctor. In fact, I didn't know this at the time, but it, has subsequently turned out that there have been Dr. Dukes directly in my family since the 1700s

before you could even be a doctor. They were like apothecaries in those days. Goodness me. At one point there were five Dr Dukes, who are all brothers, who lived in Kennington, not far from where we first met. How did you just suddenly find this out? Well, I knew my grand, I didn't know my grandfather very well, but I knew he was a doctor. So my dad's a doctor. And there's somebody in our family who says, kept this family tree, a distant cousin, who's got all of these amazing images and the house in Kennington where these five doctors live,

they had it as their practice. And so there's the sort of coach and horses and I think he's called Creedie, the coachman, who used to take you on your home visits if you're a GP back in the day, which is... How incredible, will you write this as a story? I've actually not joking. No, I think that sounds incredible.

I mean, it's so sort of extraordinary about this particular bit of the family because in those days, it's pre-NHS. So if you were anyone in medicine, you were a doctor in Harley Street, that's where the sort of reputable people wanted to be. But they decided to leave Harley Street and move down to Lambeth to be nearer the workhouses to sort of do more philanthropic work. And there's this amazing book where they describe how people paid. So it'd be sort of like Mr. Jones, Lance Boyle, one apple or whatever. Oh, this is incredible.

So people would bring, I guess, what they had. And I know you don't like it and you do get embarrassed, but I'm going to say it to your face again. I think you are possibly one of the kindest people I've ever met. And you are so... Not sure my wife would always agree. You're so empathetic and it makes so much sense that you're a doctor. Yeah, I think that it does make sense because I just loved chatting to people.

I think because I was born with a visual impairment and a lot of things I couldn't do or couldn't easily do as a result of not being able to see very well, chatting was not excluded from that list. But it didn't stop you. It didn't hold you back from talking to people because a lot of people who are visually impaired. Sometimes it can be, I mean, you spoke on my radio show

that you were bullied and people said nasty things. And that can create a sort of shyness and not wanting to talk to people. And yet I feel that it was sort of the opposite for you in some ways. Yeah, I think my parents are probably to blame for that. No, they're brilliant. Yeah. Because they just...

A confident parent pushed you out to do it all. Pushed me out into doing it. Yeah. And they went... My... If you had to talk to my mum about it, she said, you know, it was the first time I realized

I had to be a really confident person in terms of fighting for what you needed as a child. And I think, you know, lots of parents... Oh, you mean for her to be confident. Yes, because she wasn't somebody who'd necessarily say, no, no, this is this way or that way, you have to do it like this. But, you know, when I was starting to go to school,

I think they went to... visit a school specifically for visually impaired children and just felt that I should try not to have to go to an inverted commas special school if I could possibly avoid it. They felt that wasn't right for you. They felt it wasn't right for me. Yeah, and for many people it absolutely will be. And of course it depends on your level of need as well. And I think they hoped that for me, I would be able to cope with additional support in

mainstream school, which I did. But it's not without its challenges. And I think there were times, there were times early on in my school career where the school called in my parents and said, you know, he's very chatting. He's obviously, you know, he's perfectly bright, but because of his eyes up, we're not sure if we can keep him. And it was then that my mum said, well, hang on, you know, you've got to try a little bit harder.

Gosh, what a line. But he didn't he then dodge a lot of the sports stuff, which then, and you then headed to the theatre. Yes, you're right, yeah. Which then has become a real love of yours. So, I guess, formed your character and your personality. That helps. I mean, theatre really helps. I mean, for you, Ray, though, for you and you're a great, a learned teacher and an advisor and a scholar.

I taught a student who had albinism when I was first training as a teacher. And that was a real moment because I thought, gosh, well, this was what Oscar was like at school. And I think it was in year eight. But it was just... So you were with Oscar then? Yes. Yeah, yeah. So you had a bit of an insight.

I did, yeah, which is nice. And I think, hopefully, yeah, he appreciated that. I would just blow up all his work had to be on, you know, A3 sheets rather than A4. Everything was like massive when I was at school. When you were school. Yeah. They had these sort of folders, which is huge A3 folder. And I remember you saying that as well, that actually you then develop really good relationships with adults and could have great conversations because you would always be front of the class and we'd need to get on with the teacher to be able to get on rather than kind of messing around at the back.

I think that's a hidden benefit. It's probably a benefit now that I have no worry about talking to anybody. But I think when you're a child, that's not always a good thing because you have to be, I knew I had to be the teacher's pet, really. I had to be in the front of the class. I had to be concentrating. So you then, your whole personality is affected by that because you can't be the kind of cool kid at the back of the class

because I just would have learned nothing and been able to do anything. And you're also asking quite, I was always conscious, even at a young age, that I was asking quite a lot of the teachers because I, for example, could never read the whiteboard or the blackboard or whatever it was. So they would always have to read out what they were writing or come and give me an extra enlarged worksheet.

So I always had this sense that they were putting in more effort for me and therefore I should give that back to them, which probably helped in terms of, you know, I did relatively well at school, but in terms of how you're perceived by your peers, that doesn't always make it easy. I was going to say that exactly. I was thinking, I think I imagine the other students weren't so nice.

The teachers might have been nice and helpful, but I imagine the other students didn't like it. Yeah, I think you, I mean, you gravitate towards, you know, I had some wonderful friends who would equally sit next to me in a class and help me to read things out. Oh, that's so lovely to hear. Some of them are my best friends now. So you've got that benefit.

But yeah, there's definitely people who think, you know, this geeky boy who's got massive glasses. Different. People have a problem with different. But I think less so now, I think being different is cool now and working hard and wanting to do well. From my perspective, as a teacher, I think I've seen that real shift from when, you know, the 90s,

and we were at school and now. That's so wonderful that you see a difference. Yeah, I think that definitely has shifted, you know, along with our conversations around mental health and that which has been so transformative as well for young people. I'm sure it's changed. Yeah, I'm sure it's changed for the better. Oh, goodness, I hope so. Ray, how did you stop?

Because we, like I said, I met because you thought for the day on radio too, but you're a teacher and a scholar and an advisor and you're just a great all-round lovely person as well. You two. Wow. But how did it all start for you? How did you, I mean, your father, the Reverend Doctor Reverend. Yeah, the other way around we choose to go. I think probably actually, yeah, Dad was a really big influence,

the kind of conversations we would have at home. Again, at the time, you don't think anything of it, but actually it's as you grow up, you think, oh, actually, that was probably a bit different to the kind of conversations that other families might be having or things that would be going on in our home and its connection to the church and all the sort of social community aspect of that. And then at school, RS, RE, religious studies, was always, and philosophy and ethics,

was always my favourite subject. So I did that university and then I did the teacher training after that and went in and did teach first and where you sort of train on the job. But then always had this love of media and TV and radio. So then decided to sort of do that as well. And I've had sort of years where I've been teaching full-time and then times then I've been just doing the media stuff and kind of flip-flopping between the two

and then sometimes them running together. And that's great. And I suppose, you know, pause for thought is that it's taking what I love and the kind of subjects that we talk about in the classroom and putting them in mainstream media and giving everybody that space to reflect and pause. How important is religion to you then? I suppose as a family it's important.

Yeah, it is. I mean, I think I have, I think in my own way, it is, it is important. Our daughter's actually just become a chorister, hasn't she? So we. Local shirts. Yeah. So we do. We do.

We're there. And we, and love that. And I think increasingly, almost when you have your own children, it's then when you make that rule decision, don't you? But how you want to raise them and sort of those rituals and practices that would be important. I mean, I definitely have a lot of issues with a lot of, like, religion and, you know, Orthodox Christianity and certainly evangelical beliefs. beliefs and

thoughts on ethical topics or whatever but again I think as the years have gone on you can sort of dial down that noise and just tune in to the bits that feed you and that... But I get that from you that you both of you hone in actually you hone in on people

and what people need you give people what they need so you're both feeders you're both givers and it's always been the philosophy bits and the sort of big questions that you've loved haven't you which I guess fits perfectly for pause for thought because actually it doesn't have to be theological

but there's always a big question about should you do this or how does that make you feel? In other subjects at school you kind of if you're in your history lesson or English lesson you might sort of end it and your brain shuts down that particular topic whereas I think if you've been looking at is their life after death or how did the universe come to be here or those sorts of is a sister dying you know ethically okay or not you just it will just stay with you and you just keep thinking about those sorts of things

and trying to work out what you think about them. You must have the most fascinating conversations at night. We have a perpetual battle as to whether art subjects or science subjects are better. And Ray tells me, which is true, that you just forget most of the facts that you learned in maths or science, but you always remember.

There's some really fascinating research that if you assess students who've got A's and A stars in GCSE, English and maths, three weeks on, three months, six months on, those that have done the maths and have done really well, they retain so little of what they've learned. Whereas English, if you ask someone in their 80s... Can you come and visit into my house?

Unless you keep using it, I guess. You're a-level English text. Never going to leave you. You're always going to know those characters and the themes that are brought up in that... But you said that you found theatre, though, when you were younger as well. I did. When I was about four years old,

we were having some work done at home, and I suppose this just shows how much for a talker I was. I convinced the carpenter to make me a stage in the corner of my bedroom. I wish I knew him then, Gary, then. When I say stage, we're talking like maybe at most a meter by a meter that. It was really tiny. Oh, I thought you meant the full thing. No, no, I mean.

But I was the width of the room, I thought. Yeah, I mean, it was like a sort of corner of the room had this little, I mean, it was big enough for about. Oh, I mean, what didn't I do on the stage? I mean, any show, there was a band at one point, musicals. There was a full like Spice Girls, Instinct. With aulation with hanging posters and music. Disco-lite karaoke.

Why aren't we going to karaoke together? You know, this is how we met. No, I didn't know. Not karaoke. Although we just celebrated our 10-year wedding anniversary with a band-yoki party. You went to, you know, that was, yeah, concert karaoke. But, yeah, we met doing musical theatre.

So you auditioned me for your show. In the early days, I did do a little bit of performing. I was a sheep in the nativity. I think I was typecast, because I was. It was easy. No costume required. I just had a mask. And I think I probably should have done more of that.

But I did start to find... I did start to find it hard. And I loved the behind the scenes elements. So I used to do lighting design and producing shows and all of these sort of things. Where did you do then? At uni I used to do loads. Okay.

Did you meet at university then? Yeah. Right, okay. So I used to produce the Medical Society, musical at university and I must have been my third or fourth year when we went out

looking for the next stars of the show and the musical director found Ray and said I think I found her I don't think he had this in mine necessarily but you found

you found the star around the wife so that's how we met did you sing in the show yes what song singing so we did anything goes oh do you love it I'm obsessed with musical theatre

Ray was Irma with all the sailors be buddy beware do you sing around the house as well Yeah. Oh, I'm so pleased. With Teddy as well now. Teddy and Rory, yes.

We do a lot. There's a lot of music, isn't there? Yeah. How wonderful. You are joy spread as both of you. So let's talk about the podcast because obviously you're now, you're known to millions of people on Morning Live. And as the doctor who, I mean, I love the way you sort of, you myth bust. You're a myth buster.

Mythbusting with a bit of humour. With humour. But you always have humour, but you have humour, but you have such empathy. but that's the big thing. And then the podcast. So let's talk about the podcast. We'll come back to doctoring in a minute. Oh, that's, no, you can't say doctoring.

Yeah, you can. No, but doctoring sounds like you're doctoring. Fiddling the books. Doctoring the books. Yeah, and all doctoring. Doctoring. Anyway, let's move on. Back to the podcast.

Yeah, the podcast, Bedside Manors. It's been a while in the making because I had this idea. I think I went to meet people. with albinism in Africa for a BBC. You did a documentary, yeah. And it was when I came back from that that I had this sort of, I was inundated with messages, letters. And I realized.

People saying you've helped me. Yeah, people saying that not necessarily about albinism, but just that maybe they had somebody at home living with a difference or a disability and that they hadn't spoken to them about it or they hadn't ever had a really sort of in-depth conversation about it. And the documentary was quite harrowing. Did you find it harrowing to take past in you?

It was really tough to do. I'm sort of in some ways thankful that I think we didn't have children when I went to do it. I think now seeing the situation that some of those kids are in, I'm not sure I would have been able to speak to the camera really. There were a few times where it's interesting actually the times where I felt really emotional because you're sort of aware that for the team making it, your emotions are what they want to see. But it would be in this horror and for people who,

don't know, it focused about around the witch doctors in lots of parts of the world, particularly in East Africa, where they believe that body parts from people with albinism, which I have, bring good luck and fortune. And they put them into potions essentially and sell these potions. So there are gangs commissioned to go out and get hair or limbs or, you know, horrible, horrible things. And so we went into the most amazing, you know, as rural as you could, find in Tanzania, Malawi, drive for days. There was nothing really except for a small village and meet these people who had been through horrendous things,

you know, gangs coming with machetes. I mean, it doesn't even really bear thinking about. And I think the horror of that was so great that it's almost unbelievable when you're in that situation. And I guess when I was talking about going to do this documentary, people were a bit worried about me going, A, whether I'd be safe and B, whether or not I'd be able to cope with And I said, well, look, I do all day in my job deliver bad news

and hear horrendous stories from people, sadly. So I felt like I could do that. And most of that was actually okay, and you sort of professionalised that. It was when one of the little boys who we followed to the vision clinic to get his eyes tested and, of course, for some people in parts of the world, things like simple things like glasses that I had taken for granted

enabling me to see in the classroom aren't available. So this guy was going to go for the first time to have his glasses fitted at a charity who were providing that service for him. And we went into this sort of hall and he had to lie and I'm sitting there. And there were three or four seats and then one of the seats didn't have a cushion on the top

and it was just a frame with a hole. And he sat on the thing not realizing there was a cushion and fell straight through. And suddenly I'm there in absolute floods of tears because I just so was able to relate to that. That was the sort of thing. That could have been used. That was the thing that used to happen to me.

I'd be the boy who walked into the glass door at the shop because I hadn't seen. it properly and you just got all that kind of shame and you feel like the whole world is looking at you. And so that's where that's that's where the sort of experience and the idea of talking about these things came for for me. And I realized when I got back from making this documentary, the power that those conversations could have. And so I thought, well, why don't we see if we can get well-known individuals to come and talk about the medical issues that they've overcome in their life? And hopefully talking to somebody who's a-admiral.

doctor, but been through a few himself, will make it easier for them to have those conversations. And so slowly, bedside manners was born. Some people said, no, they'll never do it. No one wants to talk about it. But I think a bit like you were saying about embracing change. I think we are as a nation, hopefully embracing that a bit more now and people are happy to come and talk. It's very interesting. A lot of people say, oh, in my day, there weren't whatever, you know, dot, dot, dot, fill in the next bit. Yes, there were, but people weren't talking about it. And now people are, hallelujah to that, quite frankly. And your podcast is going to help a lot of people, but also gives us great insight. Because we need to understand. We need to be more empathetic and understand. I think that's so important because you, I sort of

thought, you know, so each episode focuses on one individual and a particular condition, but within the context of their life, which most of the guests, all of the guests have got fantastically interesting lives and they've achieved so much. For me, I thought, well, yes, okay, you might want to listen to an episode on ulcerative colitis, if you have ulcerative colitis or you know somebody who has ulcerative colitis. That's kind of a given. But actually, as you say, we should all know a little bit about all of these different health conditions. A bit like having literacy in culture or religion, you know, being able to understand a little bit of what somebody who we might meet who has a particular condition is going through.

What is Parkinson's disease? How might that affect you? It also makes it easier when somebody gives you that information because otherwise you can feel very scared and fearful of your lack of knowledge. And people go and search for something instantly. If they're diagnosed with dementia, because you said Parkinson's, I immediately thought of that. So if they're diagnosed, go and Google it, and all the sponsor stuff comes up at the top,

and it's all horrific and scary. And that's why we all need more empathy. with everything that's going around the world and let's not talk about all of that because it's just too bleak and too dark. But there needs to be more empathy, don't you think? It's how we build connection as well, isn't it? Through our vulnerabilities.

That's how we gel with people and actually you sort of taking these well-known people and really showing the full extent of their humanity and the things that we all share in common, having a health struggle, them just being open about that. I think it's really powerful. And often it's the thing that maybe they haven't spoken about that much

and you're focusing in on that. Yeah, and I think it's easy to think if people are on the television or have been in a reality show or they're a pop star or whatever they might be that actually, you know, they're in some way above that

and these things don't affect them, but of course, health affects everybody. And people are very frank and open about it. That's fantastic. And different people can get different levels of help potentially, but we're very lucky to have the NHS in this country and to be able to provide that support

to the vast majority of people who need it. For you, Ray, are you going to do more? Because I will, you do more. Do more, do film. I'll do more. It's an instruction, not a question.

No, no, but you should do stuff together as well. Yeah, well, maybe we could ask. We could, yeah. Get to it. Get those pitches in. Yeah, but you should. Why don't you do more together? Yeah, with the stuff, I guess, where we sort of overlap.

There is an often, there is. You should do a thing about empathy. Everybody needs more empathy. We do. I think I must have said that word about 200 times so far in this but it's I feel that at the moment there's so people don't have it anymore I think it was one of our first lessons in communication skills at medical school is it's not about sympathy but you have to understand the difference between sympathy

and empathy and that really putting yourself into someone else's shoes rather than just giving them the well there's that lovely visual of actually like climbing down the ladder into the hole into which somebody's sitting at that particular moment and being with them as opposed to sort of just shouting down, you know, you'll be all right in a minute or whatever, just the ability to sit with somebody who's struggling rather than, and you not finding that uncomfortable because I think most people want to fix something

and they don't, they're not just okay to be with someone alongside their difficulty. And I guess that's what, you know, you do a lot of. Well, so do you. No. No, but you do because the things that you talk about. So, okay, so away from all of the serious stuff and you do, you have a very, very,

very wicked sense of humour, Oscar. The idea of you having your theatre at home and being the all singing or dancing with your two kids as well just fills me with such joy. But we've got a drum kit in the roof that's... He's got a drum kit in the room. It's for our son who's... He wants to play the drums.

Does you know Oscar has vetoed? Every birthday. We brought it about a year ago. Sorry. What? Does your son know? No. He's asked for it.

And it's just, it hasn't appeared. It was a Christmas present. I've held back for a while for the sake of our neighbours. We've got the piano going and the cello for our daughter, Rory. So, you know, I think you're just concerned about noise. Yeah. And, I mean, he's only for a drum kit at four. Sorry, it's a lot.

You have a drum kit in your roof. In the roof. And you haven't given it to your child yet. Not yet. Cruelty Oscar. No. So Will, so Will, will, lovely will, through the glass. No, he's a saxophonist.

Oh. Well, this is, do you think they should give in the drum kit? Drum kit No Can you imagine how noisy that's going to be We will do we will do I mean it was last I think he was only three I felt it was a little

Yeah it's coming We'll brace ourselves For becoming the you know You do know I'm going to go around to your house now And raid your loft And say and tell your tell Is this Teddy? This is Teddy

What will happen is Ray will insist that it comes down But then when we have to get Teddy To stop doing it I'll be sent And then for the bad news Yeah you just in an area Yeah, you just say... Ray will have done a full concert

There'll be some sort of gig going on. Have you got a microphone at home? karaoke machine? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. This... I mean, Ray's the real singer.

I don't really sing. Do you still sing now, though, properly? No, I don't, actually. It was kind of a university thing. Why don't you do it now? Yeah, I should maybe, yeah. I'm actually... Well, I actually discovered that I have vocal nodules, didn't I?

And so that's slightly changed my range, but, you know, it's not... Are they okay of vocal nodules? Don't you have to have them? They're fine. You can have them removed, can't you? But it's, you have to do a whole, well, almost a whole week of not talking afterwards. Do you think Ray could do that?

No, not a challenge. And also we discovered it when I was doing continuity, like, voiceovers. Yes. And they didn't want me to change. Well, Ray, of course, has this lovely husky voice. You've got a beautiful, beautiful voice. But that may well be, that's what the consultant said to you, wasn't it? That may well be in part caused by these nodules.

You've probably had them all your life. In my whole life. So will your voice change then if you have your, if you have nodules? Yeah, I think it would go kind of cleaner, less. It could be. Yeah. I didn't know that. I know friends of mine who are in a musical theatre who have had them and then had them removed. Like after a party, I would then always not have a voice the next day.

So we'd kind of have focus. When we were doing our show, I remember that week at university to not go out for, I think I did it for about a fortnight. Obviously, that was like the longest hardest fortnight of all time, sort of waving my friends off in our halls. But it was just obviously worth it because I needed to make sure that I, I've hit the high notes. You need to go back and do singing and you need to be doing some acting.

You need to be in Panto. Why don't you do Panto? Panto, can you imagine? You've seen my dance in Gabby, could you imagine? No, I think you'd be wonderful in Panto. I'd be a great, I don't know what, I'd be a great. I would like it. Could be Prince Charming?

Yeah. The first blonde Prince Charming, maybe not first, but... You could be blonde Prince Charming, easily. Easily done. You could be Cinderella. Oh, yeah. This is it. I have to fight Geth in Jones for the Prince Charming.

No, I think you can definitely be Prince Charming. There we go. And the song that you're going to sing as Prince Charming... Prince Charming would be yours, what's your go-to? Obviously, I'm going to suggest some Bruce Brinkstein here, Osk. Yeah, you would. Oh, were you?

Huge. Yeah. Did you, have you seen him? And this is an area of contention, isn't it? Why? Well, because you're not, I was like brought up on Bruce. You know, knew every lyric from the age of about six. Ray and her family are like, it's hats.

Have you had a t-shirt? Have you? What was the world? No, not quite. And we're not, we haven't been to this tour. But you know. UK-wide. Yeah.

Yeah. K-wide. Yeah. I love to Birmingham. And I like Bruce Springsteen, but I'm not, I'm not. I can't imagine you and Bruce's not. I do, to be honest, I do find live event stuff quite tricky because I can't really see what's happening. Can I just ask you then?

So what can you see and what can't you see? Well, it's a difficult question because I was, no, only because I was born like this. So I don't have a sort of comparison. But so, okay. If I, if I go to the, if you go to the optician. Yeah. And you've got the chart. Yeah.

With my glasses and contact lenses at a distance, so distance is quite hard for me. I can see that top letter. But you read the auto queue? With a lot of hard work, yeah. So the team have worked really hard to, I mean, most of the time I'm doing is obviously talking about medical advice. I don't have to do.

But if I do read the auto queue, it has to be really close, super close. Oh, I see, right. And on very big font. But that's a hard challenge because, as you'll know, as a pro of auto queue. If you have really big letters, then you can't get the flow.

A whole word. You just get one word out of time. So I need, I feel like I need a massive screen, but then you end up going like this, which also look a little bit odd. But you have the best memory, so that must help. I was going to say, when you were at medical school and studying, a lot of it is memory then, I suppose.

Is it? A lot of it is memory, because, as I said, I can't, I couldn't, I wouldn't have been able. to see the board or the lectured notes on the board. So I wouldn't have been able to say a PowerPoint presentation. So I would have maybe had it printed out and had it in front of me and then that would be okay. But yeah, I mean, all through school, I was never able to reliably read what was on the board.

So yeah, you get very used to listening and remembering. And actually, those really useful skills for medicine. That's an amazing skill. And so I do, I do have a good memory. But when people come up to you with medical issues, now there's nothing to do with. This isn't going back to your site. This is just people, but when people know that there's a doctor around, they will show you anything and everything.

They will. Too much. My grandfather was a consultant surgeon. My uncle's consultant surgeon. My mom, she died many years ago, but she was a doctor's receptionist, believed that she was a doctor. Yeah. Probably nearly was. Yeah, yeah.

So we, so, but anywhere we go, if I'm ever with my uncle, people will also, David, can you, and he'll have to look at something. Does that happen for you? It does all the time. Oh, I like that, raise nodding. A lot. And actually, I do love that. You don't.

My people showing you their bits at various times of day and night. How much we're allowed to say? I once worked in a sexual health clinic. Yeah, you could say what you were. And I always used to say when I was training, I would obviously explain to my consultants about my eyesight. Many of them actually never knew because it wasn't, you know, I only ever wanted to be a doctor if I could do it as well as any other doctor.

Now, I knew, of course, I wouldn't be able to be a brain surgeon and do microscopic surgery or anything. That wouldn't work. But I didn't want to have to have, just because of my personality, it might work for some people. But I didn't want to feel in any way that I couldn't achieve what everybody else could achieve at medical school and in the sort of junior doctor years. So I was always able to do all of the procedures. Yeah, I'd have to look a bit closer. And I remember when I worked around the time we got married at, so I was working in the sexual health clinic in Soho, the most lovely team that I remember saying to the consultant, just so you know, I do have to look really closely because of my eyes. Where are you going?

Where are you going with this story? Will's suddenly looking up. Will's looking nervous. And she said, that's fine. No, if you get a water on your nose, we'll know you've looked too closely. And that was it. Oh, okay.

I'm there. Yep. And I thought, fair enough. And I never did. You have such high tolerance, though, for stuff like that would just gross, I think, most other people out.

We're quite often at the table. And you get told by a lot of our friends. It's too much now. It's too much. See, I have to say, I'm very lucky I did a show called City Hospital for a few years for the BBC live in a hospital and I used to go to all the operation I loved it I don't mind anything I don't mind opening up the only thing that I nearly fainted on telly was when they did an injection into an eyeball

and I didn't my knees went wobbly I didn't know that I was going to happen but I don't mind it all so I talk about it all and I you know I'll be around people and it's going can you not But with a doctor, you just, you can't say, can you not? That you have to... It becomes so normal for you. And that's what I'm always saying on morning live. And anything I've told, you know, when you were encouraging people to come and talk about something embarrassing, it doesn't even blip on my radar. So nothing would embarrass you?

Almost nothing, I would say. Yeah, almost nothing. Now I've got to try about. Now you feel, now it's a challenge. Okay, we are going to make you, what can we make him do? There's a great... Surely you can embarrass him. I feel like that's a bit much.

Is that too much? Oh, no, it's not. Go on. Go for it as our final story. It can always be edited out. No, go on. Will, we want to know, don't we? Will, we want to know.

He's nodding. So, I... I think we've done it. He's embarrassed. No, I had to. He is. I'm only worried about your listeners. The...

One of the things you have to do is to learn to catheterize people. So you put a catheter into the urethra where the we comes out of. So in a man, that's a little bit. easier than a woman. He's got to find an elusive hole, should you say. And there was a certain lady as, it was my dad's story, actually, this wasn't me. My dad's story that he was sort of, as I said, a doctor and giving me some advice on how

that you should do this when you were in early days. The main advice was get the nurses to do it because they're really good at doing it. But if you have to do it in the middle of the night or in a night, this is how you should do it. He said, when I was first doing it, this lady's looked down at me and said, doctor, if you carry on like that, you're to ring my bell. Oh my worst. Thank you very much. You're welcome.

What's your dad's? Oliver. Oliver. Well done, Oliver. Oliver, thank you for that. Very accomplished. Not a urologist later in life. Start and end it with both our dads.

There we are. Thank you so much for both of you. Thank you so much for having you. Thank you. Thank you, Gabby. It's been such a pleasure to be here.