That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Passenger

Episode Date: February 3, 2026

Passenger (aka Mike Rosenberg) joins Gaby for a chat about 'The Unlikely Pilgrimage Of Harold Fry' - a new musical which he has composed. They chat about the magic of songwriting, how busking taught Mike his craft, and why being an independent artist is so freeing. He also treats us to a live performance of one of the songs from his new musical!

Mike, passenger, passenger, Mike. How lovely to see you again. You too. I absolutely have fallen in love with your musical, the unlikely pilgrimage of Harrow Fry, because I was very honored to launch it in London. Oh, that music. Of that story?

Yeah, I mean, the story is just sensational. It's so simple in a way, really. There's a beautiful simplicity to it, but it's just so moving. You know, I've been so close to it now for the last five years, and I see how it affects people. It's such a human experience, the book, the film, and now the musical. I think it's hard not to be affected by it. It's a story of a man walking and hope and love and, oh, goodness me.

So how did it also, how did you get involved in the music? musical? We just received an email out of the blue. You're joking. No, from one of the shows producers, a guy called Nick Ciddy, which he probably met Nick when you were there the other day. But he was a passenger fan and I think he knew the book, he knew my music and in his head he'd been like, hang on a minute, there's some kind of connect here. So he just reached out and said, look, a bit of an odd one, bit of a long shot, but would this be something you'd be interested in? and I didn't know the book at the time and writing a musical

had never really been on my to-do list. Really? Never? No. Like, it's never really been part of my musical palette. Like, it's not something that I don't watch a lot of musicals and not immersed in that world. So it just felt a bit left field, a bit like, it's lovely to be asked, very flattered.

And I'll read the book. And then I read the book and just fell in love with it. And I was like, yes, I do want to do this. This would be amazing. It was as simple as reading Rachel Joyce's words and you just thought, I can't help it. Yeah, I could just imagine, I then understood why Nick had kind of reached out to me specifically because it's like, yeah, I can write these songs, I can write for these characters. I know, you know, Harold, I guess for anybody who doesn't know the story, he's a retired man living in Devon,

living a very sort of sedatory life and receives a letter from somebody he used to, to work with, who he hasn't seen for years, she's dying, she's in a hospice in the north of England. And to cut a very long story short, Harold ends up walking the length of England to get to her. So yeah, he meets all these weird and wonderful people along the way. And I just, that's how I write. I write people's stories, I think. So I could see how I would write for all of these characters and for Harold and for Maureen, his wife. And yeah, it kind of, suddenly became a possibility to me. Your songs, all of your songs from the stuff that we know from before up until now and the musical,

they just come from somewhere so deep. It's as if you know how to twang our hearts and make us think and make us cry, make us feel actually, but also make us think. Do you have that intention when you write a song? Obviously for the musical it's different because the characters are there. in black and white on the page. But when you write, do you know the effect you want to have on somebody?

No. I don't think so. I think when I start writing a song, I often don't know what it's about. You know, it's a bit like, I sometimes describe it as like archaeology. You know, you're kind of brushing away at something and it's only a while later that you figure out it's what it is, you know?

So yeah, I don't know. It's as close to magic as it gets for me songwriting. I don't really know where it comes from. Oh, that's incredible. Yeah. Yeah, it does feel I've been doing it for many years, and I still don't really, if I knew the process, then I'd do it all the time. You know, it's like, it's not science.

It's, you have to just be ready to receive it when it happens, I think. Are you good at magic? Are you good at being in the moment then? And just, are you good at meditation and everything? Because that's what you just said is incredible. I think songwriting and playing is definitely flow state and definitely in the moment. I do meditate. I do a lot of things to try and be in the moment.

I've come off social media. I try to sort of, yeah, enjoy the present as much as possible. I think it's hard. I think it's a really hard thing to do. And especially in today's world, it's so noisy and distracting. but yeah I make an effort to do it and songwriting is a wonderful way of doing that you just kind of escape into another world but what's so interesting with you saying that because you do you write those songs that make us do that so you are sharing your inner magic yeah

your inner soul yeah I mean I certainly feel like that about other song songwriters it's hard for me to be objective about what I do but I think it always blows my mind when, you know, there were some fans waiting outside a radio station today at like 8.30 in the morning. So they must feel that. They must feel that towards me as I feel towards Paul Simon or whoever it is. So, yeah, it's an amazing, humbling feeling when you understand how passionately people feel about it. And what an impact you've had on all of our lives. Yeah.

Your songs are the backbone of our lives, but also with this musical. When people hear this, the soundtrack is extraordinary. I mean, I actually do know of by heart rather embarrassingly sung it in front of you a moment ago before we came into studio because it's so much in my head. But for you, was this something that you always thought you would end up doing? Not the musical, just music. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't have a great time at school, wasn't academically minded particularly. Like a lot of kids slash boys maybe, I don't know.

Like I've really struggled with school. I always found school was a very narrow understanding of intelligence. It's like you either fit into our little box of what's clever or you don't. And if you don't, well, sort of good luck. and because my version of clever wasn't that, I think I had a really tough time at school. Were they aware? Were your family aware, were the teachers aware that that's how you felt?

Your friends were. I don't know. I don't think it was noticeable. I think a lot of people kind of get lost in the slipstream. I think, and I'm not blaming the education system, but I think unless you are incredibly good or incredibly bad, you just kind of get lost in the middle. Yeah.

And that's, you know, it is what it is. taught me a lot of other things but I think music was always this thing where I felt like when I played a song or did something on the guitar that's when people kind of noticed what I was doing and it felt good so I just followed that and you just went with that yeah so with your

music you've done I know you're going to be embarrassed about it because when I said it to you before you got very embarrassed but you've done so you've done so much good and I don't just mean for all of us in our hearts but all the charity work that you do and you're this is something you feel really strongly about

isn't it? Yeah I mean I'm also in the unique or a very good position where I'm not with a major label you know I should say that because you know most artists don't have the opportunity to donate an album's profits to shelter or whoever

because they are tied in with a major label that would never dream of doing something like that. So we're in a great position where I fund all of my albums. We release everything independently. So it means that we can do something like that. So yeah, over the years we've donated to UNICEF and Shelter and the Trussle Trust amongst others.

And what's lovely about doing it that way is that, you know, obviously when you release an album, that's when it has its biggest kind of surge and people are excited about it and listen to it. But with Spotify and the way that people consume me. music now, it just ticks over. It keeps on going. So year on year, we're able to donate to these charities without even really noticing, you know? It's like, it's just happening. It's just ticking over and it's a really nice way of doing it for us. And environmentally as well, because you're passionate about the environment. So you've done environmental issues as well. Yeah, yeah. And I,

I mean, that's what sort of captivated me when you said it. You said that's why I'm not with a big label, is that actually the reason that you don't want to be with the big label, so you can carry on doing that? Honestly, like, before let her go happen, no big labels ever, I mean, maybe Ireland flirted with it once back in the sort of 1800s, but... But they're kicking themselves now. Well... I mean, that's one of the biggest, most stream songs, is it?

Yeah, of course. Four billion streams. I know, but it's easy in hindsight to... I mean, like, I didn't know it was going to be a hit. Like, I wrote it and thought, yeah, it's nice, you know. Another one to add to the list. I love that, yeah, it's nice. Yeah, but you don't.

It's a really good song. But before it is, before everybody agrees it's a hit, it's not a hit, you know. Oh, that's really interesting. Okay. And you look back in hindsight and you're like, well, of course it was going to be a hit. It's let it go. It's like, tell that to me when I was busking and, you know, it was like it was a different universe back then. I didn't believe I could have a song that would get big.

That's really interesting. I wanted to talk to you about the busking part because I just about, before I came in here a couple of hours ago, I was chatting to a lovely busker outside Kings Cross. He was amazing. Isn't he amazing? Yeah, I've just booked him for my radio show. Amazing. I just went up to him.

He's got a beautiful voice. Oh, oh, I was going to tell you about say, go and listen to him. So I was walking past him and I just stopped. And then I said, will you come on to my Sunday radio show? And he's like, this isn't real. I mean, yeah, it's completely real. My producer is going to email you now. And then he said, can I sing my song that I wrote for you as you walk away?

And he just reminded me of you. Yeah, he reminded me of me as well. It was, when I came out at the station, I heard him. And it was just like, that's not a normal voice. That's a bit showstoppy. That was really good. What was his name? I've got it.

I'm going to look it up. We shouldn't be like banging on about him and not say his name. No, I've videoed it. So I'm going to tell you what his name was because it's on the video. His name is Josh Robinson. Josh Robinson. Next big thing. Josh Robinson.

He heard it here first. Yeah, lovely guy as well. And I went over and did the little tap payment thing. And we had a nice chat. Really lovely guy. And I think he's seen me play years ago and blah. But like he, busking now, it's so hard. That's what I wanted to ask you about the difference between then and now.

It sucks for those guys now because they have to do the tap thing, which I'm sure works, but you know, back when I was busking, people just had change in their pockets. Yeah. They just chuck a quid in and it didn't feel like such a commitment for them. Plus, CDs was still a thing. So I used to sell loads of CDs busking. That was like the bulk of the money I'd make. But yeah, I mean, he's definitely going somewhere that guy. Oh, I love that you stopped and you said that to him.

Yeah. He's had a good day then, hasn't he? He's had a good day, then. He's had to both of us. For a radio show. God knows who else has had to chat with it. Oh, that would be so nice. So what is life like busking? I don't know, really.

It's easy to look back with rose-tinted glasses because it was incredibly liberating. I started busking when I was about 24, 25, and I think I'd had quite a negative experience with... My first album was with a band. and had a bit of budget behind it and it didn't really do what everyone was hoping for

and honestly it was pretty mismanaged looking back on it. It wasn't brilliantly dealt with and so coming out of the back of that the band broke up um had a really tough time in my personal life I broke up with a girlfriend I've moved back home with my mum and dad like the whole thing kind of fell apart a little bit

as it kind of has to I think at least once and I was like okay take away all of the BS I'm not sure if I can swear You can swear as a podcast Take away all of the bullshit Like what works about what I do

And I think it's the songs I know if I can get these songs to people I think it can affect people And I think I can have an impact So it's like what's the simplest way of doing that Well go and bust Like you're not asking anybody to pay You're not asking anyone to stay for very long

although they can if they want to it just turned into this really nice way of doing it it's just like I busked in Brighton for a few weeks and I was like this is really good so you did you enjoyed it as well yeah I loved it I was just like this is amazing I can play music because I think at the time I was working as a chef

getting paid like 150 quid a week working my off everything off exactly and then I'd busk for a week but make double the money I was like I think I'll just do this And so I went off and that was like, I started busking all over the place, went to Australia a lot.

Yeah, because you spent a lot of time in Australia, didn't you? Yeah, I did. Busking's weather dependent, right? So like I'd spend the summer. So you went there to busk? I'd spend the summers in Europe busking and then I'd go to Australia for six months and busk over there when it was cold over here. So for like three or four years I just went from summer to summer. It was glorious.

It was amazing. And didn't have a house, foot loose and fancy free, just. So where did you stay? Hostels, people's couches. I'd rent a place here and there. Like, it was really cool. But as I said, it's easy to look back on that time and think it was all really cool.

It was also fraught with anxiety and I was annoyed that, you know, I wasn't getting bigger and no one was taking any notice and I was working so hard and putting out these albums and busking and gigging. But, you know, it all does accumulate and it all does add up.

But in the moment, you don't always see that. So if you were to see you as a busker now... Tell me to shut up. No, you wouldn't. I don't know. I mean, you know, we're talking about it's Josh, isn't it? Yeah, that one we saw today.

I think, you know, I had the same reaction to him as I remember people having that reaction to me sometimes as well. It's a lovely feeling if you're sat there playing and you can see that people are like, Hang on a minute. I was going to go to W8 Smith, but now I'm going to stay and watch this guy. You know,

that's a really nice feeling. That's, and if someone buys a CD or, you know, gives you a quid or whatever it is. Yeah, it's a really, I think from being in a situation

where you're always waiting for other people to make things happen for you, with a label, with management, with this, that and the other. It's like,

oh, don't know if this gig's going to happen. Don't know if this is happening. You're constantly help, What I loved about busking is like you go and you just go and get it yourself. You just get up, go and do it, meet people, play your songs. It's so proactive. I think that was such a nice feeling after years of feeling like the music industry was just enormous and scary and where do you start, you know?

So now doing a musical, I mean obviously there you were chasing the sun and busking and doing what you love. and now doing a musical. And do you feel that everything that you always thought about is sort of growing when you didn't expect it to grow that is changing and growing and moving on? Because you wouldn't have had a musical down in your list of things to do. I certainly didn't. Yeah, I mean, it's been a big year.

Me and my partner Rebecca had a baby. Yes, congratulations. Little Bonnie, she's nine months now. So it's been a massive year of change And I think, you know, the musical sort of happening alongside that Has been extraordinary. I think it's been a really expansive year The way I look at the world and the way I feel about things.

Has it changed now having a baby, how you feel about it? Massive, massive change, yeah. Yeah, in the best possible way. I mean, it's the hardest thing I think I've ever done. But it's just, all of your priorities just shift, don't they? It's just like everything that I thought was important before is still important, but there's just this thing now at the top of the list,

which is totally non-negotiable, and I will drop anything to make sure she's okay, you know. And I think it has a really positive effect on quite selfish people like me. Are you selfish? Oh, yeah, definitely. But I mean, but you're a giver. You give out all the time. Yeah.

I don't necessarily think selfish is always a bad word either but I definitely kind of go after what I want But not to be ruthless I don't imagine you're being ruthless at all I think you've got all you, you ooze kindness Oh that's nice Kindness oozer That sounds like a German word

Yeah I don't mean it in a bad way But I just think like I think we're probably All a bit selfish into it It's going to sound so crap But like Having a baby just makes you less selfish. Yes.

It just does. Like, you can't be anymore. It's not just about you. You know, can't just lays about watching all of the football anymore. You just have to watch some of the football. Some of the football, some of the time. Exactly. Baby all the time.

Exactly. Your big thing is that you love actually doing it live, don't you? I mean, that busky thing, that busker in you must never go. So doing the live stuff. Yeah, I love it. And, you know, I think after busking for so many years and taking off those rose-tinted glasses again for a second, like, you know, sometimes you'd busk in the middle of a town on a Monday and it's drizzling and no one's stopping. And you know, like it's very easy to think back to the times where it's like, you know, town square and you'd get 300 people around you and it's amazing and the sun's out. But there were times when it was so bleak and I was on my.

own traveling around just thinking you know all of my mates are going to university and having babies and things and I'm what am I doing I'm playing in the rain in Portsmouth city center having a terrible time but I think you know with everything that happened and the fact that I get to play all these lovely gigs now I'll never forget those those busks I'll never forget how fortunate I am to be able to do this I think you know some people who fast track that process and are suddenly playing those lovely gigs when they're 18, sometimes don't understand how fortunate that is and the flip side of it,

but because I had a decade of not doing that and wanting to do it and playing pubs and street corners and whatever, you really, really appreciate it when you get it and that never ever goes. I was talking to a comedian, very well-known comedian the other day, who said, funnily off the same thing. And he said, you know, in the old days it was the working men's clubs, It was the small bars.

It was, and people, nobody would laugh. Yeah. And he said, but I wouldn't not have done that to be able to do this. And it makes me appreciate what I do even more. 100%. Aren't we lucky to do what we love? Totally. And there's a fortune in waiting for it and working for it.

There just is. You just appreciate it. And it feels good. It feels good to finally get that after not having it, you know? So you, what you've done is you've collided my two favorite things. Okay. So I'm obsessed with musical theatre and I love your music. You crash them together.

Thank you for that. I obviously did, just for me. Pleasure. But thank you. I'll take it. You know, it was just for me. But would you mind singing a song? Sure.

I mean, we were just going to have a chat, weren't we? Yeah, so this is really kind of you. Because you had your guitar, because I think you were playing it earlier. So I've played this soundtrack again and again and again. When I'm at home, I cry. So hopefully I'm not going to cry in front of you now. But if you can just, which one are you going to do for us? Should I play the one you were singing at me earlier?

I'm so sorry. No, I loved it. Yeah, so this is a song that to Harold, about halfway through his walk, starts to panic and he's like, I don't actually know if Queenie's still alive. I haven't spoken to her for weeks and haven't received any notice saying that she is. So he calls the hospice in a bit of a panic and asks to speak to Queenie. And Sister Philomena, who's one of the nuns who is looking after Queenie, sings this song in response to Harold's phone call.

It's called Keep on Walking, Mr Fry. I'm sorry sir but sadly You can't talk with her today Are you the man that's traveling from so very far away She has no friends or family She has no next of kin These cases tend to end quite quickly After they begin

So imagine our surprise To see the light of life shining her eyes every time she sees one of your postcards has arrived so although it may be lost on us and frankly sounds preposterous I think you might be helping her survive so keep on walking mr fry for you've a magic in your stride I don't know how I don't know why But sometimes if you try Even where you're falling You can fly

So keep on walking, Mr Fry I must admit I felt as if you hadn't understood The weight of Queenie's situation Like we thought you would I didn't see how walking Could save a mortal soul I've learned

over the years what's in and out of our control. So imagine our delight to see her carry on and fight. She's a candle in the window and your faith keeps her light. So although it sounds ridiculous, it's really quite miraculous, I think you might be helping her survive. So keep on walking, Mr. Fry. for you for power at your side I don't know how and I don't know why

but sometimes if you try even where you're falling you can fly so keep on walking Mr Fry for she waits for you waits for aid the patience of a say she'll wait for you she's a stay Hope you can understand why you must keep on walking, Mr Frye.

Sorry, I've got completely gone. Oh, my word. Good tears, though, right? I love that book so much. I love those people so much. And your songs, ah! But there's a line that you can, you know, even, oh, that you can fly. Bring myself back.

You've got this. Whoa! It's absolutely. beautiful. Thanks. I mean really, really beautiful. And the musical, I hope, runs and runs and runs. And Mark and Jenna together as well. You know, what a double act of it.

Sensational. Yeah, like two actors at the top of their game, I think, just like... And dog. And dog. Yeah, beautiful. It's the most real puppet. I don't want to say that he were. I feel like I'm being unfair, calling it to... Oh, it's mad.

It's mad. So Harold meets a dog along the way and kind of acquires this dog for a bit of the walk and it's, yeah, it's a puppet and it's played by a puppeteer and when the dog appears, you see the puppeteer for about five seconds

and then you forget that it's not, how does that work? You forget that it's not a real dog. But I was actually sitting next to the dog, talking to the dog with the puppeteer there. and I really rudely ignored the puppeteer because that's dog. Dog.

It's mad, isn't it? Thank you. Thank you for playing that song. I'm completely ruining me. Ruining you. Sorry. No, no, no, no. Please don't say sorry because it's so beautiful.

Like I said, your music is, for me, it's such an honor to meet you because I love your music so much. And it really makes such a difference. Thank you. But also, this is reasons to be joyful. And we always ask everybody, what brings you most joy?