That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Paul Chowdhry

Episode Date: May 2, 2022

In this episode Gaby chats with comedian, actor and writer Paul Chowdhry. He talks about his career on the comedy scene doing stand up in all sorts of venues - from stranger's living rooms to selling out Wembley. They discuss his acting roles including starring in the hugely successful Disney movie 'Cruella' with Emma Stone and the Sky Original Drama 'Devils' with Patrick Dempsey. Trigger warning - Paul talks openly about the extreme racial abuse that both he and his family received in the past.His tour 'Family Friendly Comedian’ will start back up again in October and the list of new dates and tickets can be found on www.paulchowdhry.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to that Gabby Rosen podcast, part of the Acast Creator Network. This week my guest is Paul Chowdry, and we start this episode of the podcast, chatting about hummus and smart fridges. As you do, we talk about his massive sellout gig at Wembley and heckling. We discuss his choice about not doing too much stand-up on TV, even though he started out as an extra on television. He makes me giggle talking about doing his stand-up in people's homes, and how he started out, standing all sofas in nightclubs. We then have a natter about starring in the movie Cruella with Emma Stone and acting alongside Patrick Dempsey in Devils. Okay, trigger warning time. We do discuss the extreme and horrific racist abuse that both he and his family received in the past. His stories are

shocking and disgusting and that leads us on to talking about diversity across the board. Paul is very open about his mental health issues and is a very thoughtful but private man who shared so much and for that I am very thankful. I do hope you enjoy listening to this gentle man. Please can I ask you a favour? Would you mind following and subscribing please by clicking the follow or subscribe button? This is completely and utterly free by the way and you can also rate and review on Apple Podcasts which is the purple app on your iPhone or iPad. Simply scroll down to the bottom of all of the episodes. I know there have been quite a few now and you'll see the stars where you can tap and rate and also please write a review. Thank you so much. Paul Chaudhry,

how are you? Gabby, it's been a long time. Well, a few months. Too long in my world. Okay, too long. Because you're just a joy. Do you know, I just need to check, have you got organic hummus in your fridge? I have actually. How do you know about that? Have you got one of those smart fridges and you've got a link up to my fridge where you can, have you seen that? You can do these in the fridge and then you can find out what's in your when you're at the supermarket so you don't buy the wrong stuff. But you can't have a smart fridge and see in somebody else's fridge, can you? I think they'll probably invent technology where you can spy on someone else's fridge soon. Do you know I wanted to do a TV show for years where what's inside your fridge?

Because I think it says a lot about somebody. So it's apart from the organic humus. What else have you got in there? So mine's very basic, lots of salad, spinach, smoothies, a little bit fresh fish and, uh, Lots of oat milk. Pretty London fridge, I think. How lovely to talk to you. You missed of your tour, which still makes me giggle. I mean, yeah, your tour makes me giggle, of course,

but I meant your tour the name. Family-friendly comedian, No Children Are Loud. It's just clever. Well, I don't know why they had no children are allowed, but yeah, it's not, it's not Jack Anori, which you might not know, but that was a show where everybody would sit and read a story for children. It's not that, is it?

there was a 14 year old in last night with his dad and his sister another 14 year old so he seemed to enjoy it but yeah not for small kids not for small kids how do you know that they were in did you pull them out of the audience well they were literally in the front row and you can see the front row and I'm like how old are you and he said 14 does it is it do you need that do you need to be able to see the audience to be able to get that reaction not really I don't tend to have the audience lit I have the stage lit but sometimes that causes a bit of bounce, which is the technical term, where the light bounces off the stage and you can see a little bit of the front row. So you can generally see

a little bit at the front, but the rest of it you can't see. And it makes the performance. You don't want the audience too lit either. They get self-conscious. But why do you like it that it's dark? Well, it makes it much more enjoyable. experience for the audience as well because some people don't want other people to know what they're laughing at. But then it also can encourage heckling because when people are completely in the dark, they tend to try and get involved too much and think they can't be seen or, well, seen anyway. How do you feel about heckling? What is it like? I mean, do people heckle where you, you know, is it an expected heckle or do you like an unexpected heckle? Well, comics don't

really like heckles in general, but when they happen, we deal with them. And I think it's a British thing where we really destroy a heckler. And rather, in America, it's like, hey, you do not heckle the acts, let them do their act, and they finish their act, and you can give them some feedback. Whereas in England, you're like rubbish or something. When's the jug going to start? Oh, that's horrible, though. I don't like that. I mean, you've, you know, everything that I've read about, you had a tough childhood and you were, I mean, endured racist abuse and the stuff that I've read has just broken my heart, so I'm so sorry you had to go through that. But does that sometimes, I know this is a sort of weird leap, but does the heckling sometimes feel like bullying that you've

experienced? I'm not so much at my own shows because now when I'm touring, the fans are already fans of mine so they're already on board some to some extent where they've seen my previous work but when I was at the clubs and I was getting heckled and yeah it was a different type of thing then when you're just one of the acts going on a bill of other comedians and I tended to be the only non-white person in the room at the time because there wasn't much diversity in entertainment 20 years ago do you feel that that's changed that's changed a little bit not not that much But it's changed slightly. Yeah, it's, but then I'm a touring comic,

so I'm the only guy on the show now. So they're coming to my show now because I've built up a fan base. So it's, yeah, and then the audience become quite diverse now because they see much more diversity within the performance media. Quite frankly, there needs to be more, I'm going to say it. I just think there should be. Okay, so let's go to selling out women. to 10,000 people.

I mean, that's rock and roll. I mean, that's incredible. Please tell me you were delighted and happy and surprised. Yeah, that was a few years ago now. Doesn't matter. It still happened. It happened. Yeah, and that tour I did 100,000 people in total for the tour. So that was one of the dates.

So yeah, about 100,000 people saw that tour. So it puts me in like the top 10 UK selling comics. comics and I'm probably the only non like the person who's not a household name on that list like the other people sell out Wembley that year was Mickey Flanagan and Jack Whitehall and they can't even go to Sainsbury's. So how does it happen then for you? I mean is it is word of mouth I presume. Yeah a lot of word and mouth is quite an organic following. People tended to tell their mates about it and you know I'm not a regular TV comic but

I'm known for delivering a decent live show. It's very interesting though. Have you made it a stand of yours not to do more tele? Because I know you've done live at the Apollo and you've, I mean, you've done a few TV shows. You've done Taskmaster and eight out of ten cats. But have you sort of made it a thing that you don't want to go on to the usual panel shows? I've done, yeah, I've done bits and pieces. like I did Live at the Apollo

a couple of times and the thing about those shows is and even Taskmaster back in 2006, I haven't the series three that was when it was on Dave and now it's become a huge show on Channel 4 but

when I did those shows like there were small shows at the time well the Live with the Apollo is quite a big show but I only done one or two spots on it but it's whether the audience latch on to that and think oh this is an interesting individual or comic or perform where you can watch and we'd like to see them live. So you really need to capture the public's attention with any performance you do on TV.

There's no point in being on everything and being less than average. If you're on one or two things, try and be great on them. And then you'll build an audience that way, I think. So how did it all start? I know that you were an extra in things like Holby and a couple of films. I love that giggle. So you did all the extra stuff and then you started doing the comedy store,

the open mic nights. But when did it become that you knew you could earn a living as a comic and not do the extra work anymore? Yeah, that was... Yeah, so I graduated. I got a degree in media film and TV and then during that I was doing a bit of extra work.

London's Burning and a few films. Holby City, I was in the entire. first series of that with Michael French. Do you remember from EastEnders? I do. Yes, very sexy man. Yeah, he was like the sex symbol of the time and I was like his kind of assistant doctor in it, walking around with him with a clipboard saying the odd word here and there at BBC studios where they would film Top of the Pops the last ever season there in the same building. And then in the evening I would go to to the comedy clubs and just try out stuff I've written over the years.

And I wanted to start when I was younger, but I just didn't have the bottle to go and do it. And I tried it. And then it became an addiction. And then, you know, you ended up getting 50 quid. That was the first ever. And I think I won a competition. I'd just gave that to my parents. The 50 quid, because I'd lived with them for so many years.

It was the least I could do. And then within two years, I think I'd broken into the two major clubs in England, which was the comedy store and jonglers. So they tended to pay a slightly more than 50 quid, so I could pay the bills a bit. And then I just carried on since then and carried on doing the club circuit for 10 years. Isn't it quite a daunting thing to suddenly...

to become a comedian? I'm fascinated by you guys. And I hate it when people say it. But yeah, I do know some comedians who are very close personal friends. and I just sometimes just sit there and look. I'll be with whoever. I was going, how do you do this?

I mean, that idea that it makes me, I'm scratching my chest now as if I come out and hives. It does. It's a terrifying thought. I'll go up and do anything in front of millions of people, but stand up. God. Apparently it's the number one fair public speaking

is the issue there, I think, with human beings. I'm not sure if it's the comedy. We're scared to publicly speak in front of others. for some reason. That's a fear. And I think comics have that thing in them where they're not scared to speak in public unless they're trying to be funny.

You know, they're trying to be, because comics essentially, we're public speakers who had jokes and punchlines to our sentences. So as long as you can get over that public speaking fear, the rest is pretty easy, I think. No, the public speaking thing I get, because that's what I've done all my life.

And I love it. But it's that thing of trying out a gag. And what if somebody doesn't laugh, I think I'd be. That's what's making me pull my jumper away from my neck thinking, Oh, my word. Well, they're not going to laugh at all your jokes. That's the thing. So for a joke to work, you need to test it quite a few times.

When comics say jokes in front of an audience, half the time it might not work. But that's the development of stand-up. where you have to keep on writing the stand-up and adapt it. It's like almost like a book read or, you know, like a test screening for a film, and then they'll adapt, then they'll do another edit for that film. It's the same way of comic would work. They'll test that material.

If it doesn't work, you'll have to go back and rewrite that line or change things around. That's the nature of it. We don't all just go up and speak and it's all hilarious. Oh, that's it. You shattered all my illusions. I thought that's what you did. You just naturally. How do your family feel?

I mean, I love the story of your dad coming over here and working on the buses and then buying shops and was it a news agent and a sandwich shop and all sorts of things. So you're so removed from what he did. How did the whole family take on board Mr. Showbiz selling out Wembley? I'm going to keep bringing that up because it is cool. Well, he actually pushed me into the performing arts. so he's quite oh really he's been such a fan

of the entertainment business and watching comedies since the 60s and 70s that he got me into acting and he was very supportive of my comedy and he still is like

he gives me advice on what to do and inspires me to sell out Wembley which a lot of people would say Oh, what would be parents say? Your parents must be, but I think any family would have an issue with their child if they want to become a rock star. But my family will always supportive of that.

But that's so lovely to hear. I mean, it's very rare that you hear that. So how did he push you into it? What did he say? How did that all change? What was his kick up the bottom? He took me to acting classes when I was a kid. And then I got a bug.

for the performance art. But comedy was something I used to watch in my spare time. But stand-up comedy wasn't that big in England in the 80s as it is now. But it was much bigger in America, so I'd end up getting the videos of Eddie Murphy, Richard Pryor, Sam Kinison, Bill Hicks, and all those guys in the 90s as well. In this country, I used to watch all the TV shows from Walken Mawyers to Bob Monkhouse.

I thought Bob Monkhouse was a great comic. He managed to adapt himself to any environment. And when he'd go into a corporate event, he would write the material about the... We'd have jokes about the specific company he was performing in front of which I adapted to my corporate work where if I'm doing a corporate show for, say, you know, the Tech Awards,

I'd have jokes about technology or some of the people in the room might get some information about them before the show starts. And please share my favourite story. You know I'm going to ask you to tell the story because you've told it before when I've interviewed you. About going to people's houses and doing gigs because it is my favourite story, so please share. Yeah, I mean, I do get lots of emails saying come and do a show at our house. And I did a show, I think it was Leamington Spa when I thought it was going to be. a hall or maybe they've got a big attachment to their house where they've got an annex or something

where they've got this stage. But when I went to their house, it was actually the living room around in front of the sofas and in front of the TV and the TV was still on. So all the family were there, the extended family, the kids were running around in the living room and then I just got thrown into this living room. Yeah, but without your shoes on? I had to take my shoes for front door, yeah. So you've got your shoes in your hand and you're standing in front of there on television. How did this happen? Yeah, weird. They must have been watching me on TV at some point and then I'm in front of the TV. It must have been like some weird 3D thing. Or he's come to life. Lying the Witch and the Wardrobe situation where all of a sudden this guy is

now in the living room. They must have been pretty freaked out by it. Well, I'm pretty freaked out about just thinking about it. So what did you do? I mean, did you do your routine? It was very hard to do the routine. So I just had to kind of talk to the entire family members. And I wrote some jokes about the family members, which I was given beforehand. So I kind of did, which some went down well. Some was like, you know, we're trying to heckle me back. It was like literally this whole family heckling me. And I'm kind of one by one take on the entire year. And then the little, I remember a girl sat on her dad's lap. and said, Daddy, why is he making fun of you? She didn't understand why this, they're not going to understand.

They just think, why is this guy that's not even related to us, walked into the house with his shoes and his hands? And now he's taking the mick out of my dad for no reason. It's not up to talk I walked in out of the street to just rinse their family. What? How long were you there for? I stayed there for about three months. Oh, no, it was about, it was about, It was about 20 for half an hour or something.

Did they offer you a meal? Yeah, I had to have a meal with them afterwards. Oh, my word. Which is as hard because then you're trying to eat and then they're trying to talk to you afterwards. But they did have a pool in there, like a pool table in one of the adjacent kind of extensions. So that made it a bit easier because someone playing pool.

Oh, is it? So it wasn't all focused on just staring at me while they... Hold on a minute. So the TV's on, you've got your shoes in your hand, and the family are watching you, the little girl doesn't understand why you're completely ripping everything out of her dad. And then there's still family members playing pool next door

whilst you're doing this. Oh, that was afterwards, yeah, but I'm sure there weren't people playing pool. That was afterwards when I, because I couldn't, it literally was packed in this living room. It was, and there were people sat on the floor in front of me. There were people in the sofas. There's people going in and out of the kitchen while I'm on. I call it a stage but I was on the carpet.

So would you do this sort of thing? I mean, I love the idea that they booked you. Can you come and play in our front room? There is a TV show in that. You know there is. Dave would love it. They'd love it. But have you done other,

have you done other strange, weird and wonderful places? Yeah, I probably have done strange, weird and wonderful places. Like, what's the weirdest one? I mean, that's probably one of the weirdest. Or like back in the club circuit days, when I was on the club scene, you'd get bookings. And one of the weirdest ones was in a nightclub. They used to do stand-up in nightclubs.

So what they would do, and I was in this nightclub, and then it's like 11 o'clock 12. But then it's only one half one in the morning. And people are quite inebriated by that point. and they're trying to talk to girls and men are trying to buy girls champagne all this kind of stuff you know what it's like in a nightclub

you're frequent yeah me yeah I'm a real nightclub but yeah yeah and then all of a sudden they'd stop the music at half past one in the morning and they say look everyone stopped and then everyone goes what's going on

why's the music stop well we've got some comedy now and then all the we've got some comedy now we've got some comedy now and then they'd give you the microphone and there's no stage and you'd have to stand on one of the sofas so one of the spotlights was actually lighting you because it's so dark and these nightclubs and they'd turn the lights up a little bit and you stand on a sofa and do some stand that comedy so I realized this was almost an impossible task to achieve after one of them so then the next time I did it I got a support actor open for me

So when they put in one first, nobody would laugh. But they'd get used to the fact that there was a comic on stage and then I'd go on second and then it would go down not as badly because they think, all right, we might as well listen to the next bird. How weird! And they'd still do that. They're suddenly like, we need to do a night up. And then since then I've just turned them down to night.

I just don't do nightclubs. That's just so weird. You're dancing the night away at 1 o'clock in the morning and then you have to stop and you've pulled someone and you really fancy them. No, hold on, let's just listen to the very funny man. Although, you know, I would stop and do anything to listen to you because you do make me love. We're going back 15 years.

So they didn't have a clue. Okay, not now. They didn't have a clue who I was. You know, you're just an unknown comic. Oh, we see. Yeah, not now. This is way back in the day. And now, if I walked on, they'd probably give me like a couple of minutes.

But even now, at 1 o'clock in the morning, I wouldn't walk on in a nightclub. I remember like the hippodrome. They'd have Jason Donovan going on that have all these celebrities doing sets. So these nightclubs at the hippodrome. Hippodrome. Remember that in Leicester Square now, it's a casino. Yes, I do. And then Jason Donovan used to do like stints there or X soap stars

would all of a sudden become singers back in the 90s. Oh, it's just quite a wonderful thought. Can we go back to, obviously, a difficult time? If you don't want to talk about it, please don't. But I was really shocked reading about how much racism and abuse you and your family. received growing up. Is that one of those things you just had to get used to? I hate that I'm even putting it like that.

I mean, I find it horrific. What I've read is utterly disgusting, and I'm disgusted that you went through it, and I'm heartbroken you did. But what was it like living through times like that? Well, it wasn't, in our eyes, in our world, it wasn't, we didn't even consider it disgusting, it was normality. So the way you would look at it now, or even you're looking back at it thinking, oh, that's

terrible, but to us or ethnic minority groups in England in the 80s and the 70s, and even the 90s to a degree, and to some extent now, not as much, but it's because it's not as blatant, but it was just normal if you'd get, you'd get spat on, you'd get racial abuse, You'd get your parents, you know, people shout out racial slurs at you, that'd be attacks, and we'd just get on with it. But now it would be headline news, it would be trending on Twitter, and people would be outraged by it. But it was normal, and you just get on with your day.

It wasn't something. But normal? What's normal about that? There's nothing normal about that? Yeah, because if you look back at even entertainment, and if you look back at the speeches of Enoch Powell, the Brissers of Blood Speech, and the riots of Southall and Brixton,

it was just a tension that was through the community and a lot of people didn't want immigration and diversity in England at the time. And they still don't, but back then, it was much more open and accepted that you either want them here or you don't want them here. And if you didn't want them here, you'd tell them in the street and you'd tell them to their faces,

you wouldn't go to the politicians, you'd actually go to the source. If you don't like a member of staff in a shop, you'd then complain to the manager. You don't then just attack the staff member. but that's kind of how it worked. So we were just living through a time where we knew we had to get through

and it was just a part of the societal norms as we saw it back then. I'm not sure others can relate to that, but it was much harder for, you know, my father coming in 1964 wearing a turban and the racial abuse. And he'd said if it was working on the buses as a bus conductor,

if someone gave him racial abuse, you'd just get on and not get a, ticket off him and whereas another person of an ethnic background would have it have an issue with it and they'll just get attacked and then nothing can be done. I mean your father was very seriously attacked there as well. Yeah, he was attacked and he just, but then he took quite a few stitches to the face and it was a life attack and the people were never caught and but he got on with it and he never hell grudges.

An amazing man. And I've been, yeah, I've been attacked. I've been, there's lots of stuff has happened to me. But you can't let it affect you because you know that this is a part of human nature. Unfortunately, it's some of the darkest sides of. I mean, I, my heart bleeds for you. I mean, I was speaking to Vex King on this podcast when he was talking about the racism that he endured. And honestly, I, I.

It just, and it sounds patronising to say it makes me sick to my stomach, but it really does. And just knowing that your dad just got on with it and you just got on with it after what you went through. And now you're up there making everybody laugh and feel better about their lives. It's quite remarkable. It really is. I'm just sorry that you had to go through that. I don't know what else to say. And I just hope.

No, it's nothing to say really. No, but I hope that kids today don't continue, this doesn't carry on. Well, there's much more diversity in the country now. It's quite a different country to what it used to be in the 70s and the 80s. England has changed, but it can become slightly more underground. And it's interesting how the media circles of, But there aren't as many people of different sectors of society within production in media yet. But it's changing.

And we need portrayals of all different types of people and genders. And it's good that things are going hopefully in the right direction. Do you feel that when you watch television and when you see films? Do you, I mean, you know, more people with disabilities, more people of colour, more people who are old, older, you know, all of these things. Do you feel it is changing? Well, hopefully, it's changing slightly. Well, you know, when they discuss, why is there no black James Bond, for instance. I always find that quite an interesting topic of discussion when that comes up, because

they're like, well, why are we only talking about a black James Bond? What about all the other different sectors of society, James Bond? Yeah. It's almost as if there's two races and that's what we're going to talk about. and they think they're kind of tackling some kind of cause, but they're not, they're just saying, why there's no black or white James Bond? And it's great, the strides that the black community have made.

I think it's incredible, and they're very outspoken within their communities, and when there's injustice done, and if other races were as open about it, there'd probably be more progress. I think you could be James Bond. I think that's what you say. They've never said, is there any Indian James Bond ever. Well, maybe you can do it. I mean, look, you've been in Hollywood movies now,

Mr. Movie Star with Creweller. Yeah, I was in Creweller with Emma Stone. I mean, Devils with Patrick Dempsey. Look at the way you just dropped that in. Yeah, we'll talk about racism. And then, hey, let's go straight to Emma Stone and Cruella. Why not? That's the joy of this podcast.

So tell me about that. Tell me all about making that movie. It was huge. Yeah, it's probably the biggest thing I've ever been in, considering. And those kinds of films will outlive us all, don't they? It's like any Disney film in hundreds. of years to come. Someone will watch that

and they'll see my cameo appearance in it. But people don't recognise me from it. Yeah, they don't recognise me from it. Because I'm wearing this big wig in it and I put on this accent for it and they didn't quite notice me and I thought, oh right, it's actually

that was you. It doesn't quite clock because Emma Stone you won't even recognise obviously with her. I knew it was you and I knew it was Emma. Yeah. You're unmistakably you. I'm sorry. No, people will. You didn't get us too mistaken, did you?

No, no, no. I didn't. I'm very pleased to say. You're famous for all your accents, though. That's your big thing, isn't it? It's so funny when you mention your people, oh, he's crazy accents. Actually, when I started stand up, I used to do impressions. Who did you do? I can't remember back then, like Chris Tarin. Al Pacino was a big one, stuff like that. Oh, come on, come on, you can't say it and not do it. Do you remember that was, I used to do that line from Cent of a Woman?

Do you remember that film, he won the Oscar for? where he played a blind teacher. Yes, I do. And he said, I think, you couldn't see her, but she said, she's got a great ass! I've now interviewed Al Pacino. Right, who else are you going to be? Tonight, Matthew, I will be.

Where's Matthew gone? He's an actor. He acts. He's, he was just in the, was he in the dresser with Julian Clary. There we go. All right. Very fine actor he is. Julian Clary was probably one of the first comics to kind of get cancelled in a weird way.

when he had that channel for a show and he was one of the first comics to have like a mainstream show with the alternative guys. Do you remember that? Yeah, I do. And then he got into trouble for something he did. I think he said something about Norman Lamont,

the MP at the time. At an award ceremony, something to do with his fist or something. That's the one. And then everybody went up. Everyone was very shocked. Although if you see the stuff that goes out now about everybody.

And, you know, let's say, some, although people won't know if I say X certificate because it doesn't exist anymore, but a lot of comedians say things, as do you that possibly you can't say on television, because, you know, people come along to your stand-up shows, and they might be surprised and shocked from some of the stuff that you say, and you get away with it. Comedians get away with it, ventriloquists get away with it. You say things that lots of people would like to say, but daren't say it.

well yeah they say it and i think within the context of the show it works so when you're coming to watch a comic do an hour or two on stage it's all in context but when you snip a sentence out a show which is nothing to do with anything else and then you put it online or it will go viral then all the sudden what happens how could he say such a thing how could she say that when when it's been taken what you thought it's taking a line out of Shakespeare having it stand alone with that, that's disgusting. I could. Yes.

Even Romeo and Juliet, one of the most offensive plays. Yeah, taking it all out of context. For you, Paul, is your stand-up, as I said, you're in midst tour, so that's lovely to be talking to you midstor. But is it the acting side that you want to develop more? Because there's something,

I just get the feeling that you want to do more of everything. That you don't want to just sit back on your laurels and go, well, look, there we go. I sold out Wembley. You see, I mentioned it again. I've been in a Hollywood, massive Hollywood blockbuster. Or I just get the feeling that you want more. Well, I enjoy doing the stand-up more than anything, really.

It's like anything that comes around the stand-up is a bonus. So when the Hollywood cast and directors asked me to play cameos or become a regular in a drama, what should I mean? Devils. Look at you with Devils as well. Yeah, Devils. I've just finished season two recently and that comes out in Easter. So, and that's broadcast around the world. So when I do stuff like that, it's great. But stand-up is what I'm, I think, the best at. And still learning, even after 23 years, I'm still learning how to improve as a stand-up and be more honest and change and evolve. I think that's how people like Madonna have continued their careers for some years because they keep evolving and reinventing themselves.

That's quite important because you don't want to bore the audience and become the same act for years. You are very honest, because you're very open about mental health issues and everything as well. And I do, you know, honesty obviously works for a stand-up comedian as well. Yeah, honesty, I think the audience appreciate. And also you're sharing a space and time with an audience when you're up there for a couple of hours. They're spending time in your company rather than just hearing the jokes. So when you watch the jokes at home or if you take out of fight, The Apollo is almost like a trailer to what you can expect to see when you see that comic.

But it's interesting. Some comics have done five, ten Apollos and still don't tend to pick up an audience. And I'm quite lucky to have done one or two. And all of a sudden, I've built up quite a good life following. I'm quite humbled to have that. But you're in this massive Sky Show Devils, as we just mentioned. You've been in the films, you've sold out Wembley, yeah, that's about the 20th time I said it. But you're still, you're very, you keep yourself to yourself, you're very private.

You know, when I do my research on any of my guests, you know, I traw through everything. And there's not a lot about you. So thank you for sharing some tough stuff that you shared. But do you think that's also important that you keep a part of you, locked away and not for the general public. Well, entertainment has changed to the point where when I was coming up, you needed an equity card to be on TV or I remember it well.

Yeah, you'd have to have this equity card. And then when reality shows kicked in in the 90s and all of a sudden, the equities, power diminished slightly because they waver all their rights as performers. And I think reality TV changed that. So now we live in an age where people want to know warts and all about everyone because they're on reality shows, but those lifespans of those, I wouldn't call the performers, I think they're just people on TV, really.

It's quite interesting how that's changed. So you want to separate yourself from that. type of entertainment, even though stand-up comedy is quite a real thing, but we're performers, it's a craft, it's an art that we learn and develop, whereas when you're just being filmed, living in a house, it's not, it's a different thing, isn't it? And that can be, it's select, is that C word, celebrity. Exactly, is the C word, yeah, the C word, celebrity, what does celebrity mean anymore? What, because back when, when I was growing up, people were known for, doing something. There were celebrities because they were comics or actors or

Paul or painters or you know there were then there were real celebrities playing to 20 million people an evening and this is and when you ever saw them you like it's incredible but now everyone's a celebrity an online celebrity there's so many different types of celebrity but you don't even know what they do it's making me sound quite old now actually isn't it? No it's not it's just you're being honest about it and I what I get from what you're saying is that you are not a celebrity. You go out there and you work for your craft.

Yeah, I consider myself, there is the C word involved, which is a comic, so rather than a celebrity. So when people tell you you're a celebrity, I'm like, no, I'm not really a celebrity. I don't go to many celebrity events, very rarely. I keep myself to myself. And when people see me, it's on stage or doing something hopefully funny rather than just doing anything they're offered. So when you're on the set of devils

and the publicist comes up and says, hey, you're in the biggest show until it goes around the world, everyone's going to see it. We need you to do a front cover of this and a this of, we need you to publicise this and we need to do that. Are you the person that just said,

no, thank you, that's not for me? No, you have to do the obligations when you'll see the, and it's, you know, you do interviews or press spots for them. So it normally comes with the package in these things, which is why you see press junkets for the leads in films, Keanu Reeves or something. He'll do that all day, and there'll be, there'll just be a conveyor belt of journalists going into that room,

which is why you see that same shot in every interview. You know, you've been there. I've been there, yeah. But for you, but for you, you just, that's not a part of what you want to do with it. I mean, that comes with the territory. If you, you have to publicise, like, even my tour, you have to talk about the tour for people to know about the tour. And then obviously you can just spend money in advertising, but then on top of it, you want to give a few interviews. No, but what I mean is that you don't want to be a part of the, right, let me get down to the nitty gritty of your, of, you know,

okay, we had to laugh about your fridge. And we took you back to some very painful memories. But it is extraordinary how everybody, like you say, probably because of the reality shows, everybody wants to know your deepest, darkest secrets. And I get the feeling that you just keep them close to your chest. And I think that's wonderful. I actually am I'm applauding you for it

because when you do go and see you and you stand up, it makes it even better. Yeah, and I've spoken about situations like that before on stage, and it's a way of doing it. And I think you have to be careful in the way you put those things across. and not as blasé about such serious issues and even use them people would think as a publicity stunt and that's not what I want to use my experiences for if I'm going to say them hopefully they can

help other people deal with issues that they may have experienced and there are lots of dark places in life that people have gone through and you have to be I think quite you handle them with with the you know it's like handling an egg really if you if you handle it the wrong way it's going to crack and it's the same with a sensitive piece of information yeah I get that

Paul thank you it's always lovely to speak to you really you're a very gentle man so thank you for that and you're a very gentle woman bless you take care thank you so much for listening coming up next week one of the stars of Heart Stopper on Netflix

Sebastian Croft. That Gabby Roslin podcast is proudly produced by cameo productions and music by Beth McCari. Could you please tap the follow or subscribe button? And thank you so much for your amazing reviews. We honestly read every single one of them and they mean the world to us. Thank you so much for listening.