That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Paula Radcliffe (and family)

Episode Date: March 4, 2025

Paula Radcliffe joins Gaby for a chat about all things joy! She has a new podcast herself which they discuss, as well as the competitiveness she still has when it comes to running. Paula is joined by her two children, who tell Gaby about having a fast and famous mum, and also about Isla's cancer diagnosis - which was a tough time for all the family, but something they pulled through together.If you're a fan of running, of positivity, of staying joyful in the face of adversity - then this is a must listen for you! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Paula Radcliffe, welcome to reason you. It's to be joyful. This is joyful because we've got a family affair going on. We've got Ailer and Raph as well. Welcome both of you. Thank you for having you. Is this your first time? Not on the podcast, but on being recorded.

Yes, this is our first time. Not for me. Not for you. No, because you've spoken before. Yeah, yeah, I've spoken before. But this is my proper, like, real one. In a studio, but. Real, Wiley.

Yeah, no, not a real one. No, no, say that. It's a very cool studio, though. It is a really cool studio. It is lovely here. It's so, it's wonderful to have you all here. Paula, when you came on my radio show, we ran a race. Can I just tell you, I beat your mum.

I just tell, that's what I tell my friends. It's what I tell my family. What is it like, Isla, having a mother who was the fastest person on the planet. Is that weird? It was very inspiration. as a young child, but it's also, she was never pushy with us. I think you can agree. Yeah.

She was never pushy for us to do sports. Sport in general, yes, but never to do running. So we did a lot of other sports growing up. But it was really inspirational and we got to do loads of like cool stuff growing up. Yeah, you win the mum. Well, I think because I knew and my parents were brilliant in terms of letting me discover my passion and finding what I wanted to do. and I found running fairly easily and fairly soon

but I was really keen that they're physically active because we all know how that's good for you but that they try all the different things to find that sport that they're really invested in that said I love running with them I was going to say so do you now play the sports and all run together? We haven't all run together for a while now

but I do love that but when we do my family's on track event which we have to get you along to at one point but that's when the family all jumps in yes absolutely It's totally for the family just to exercise together and have fun. So you complete 10K as a family but running loops of 250 metres, 500 metres and 750 metres. And then you get different coloured balls at the end and the family adds up the 10K.

And when you finish, you do it in fancy dress, you all finish together. So the aim is that little kids can run the loop on their own. Yes. And we've had grandparents come out. We've had people walk the loops. It doesn't matter. Can I dress up as a blow-up dinosaur? You absolutely can.

We've had those, haven't we? We've had the flintstones. Flintstones? Oh, you see, I've been a blow-up dinosaur on the Joe Lyset show. I need to be another blow-up. Come on, Raff, what else can I run out? Give me some ideas. No, walk out. What do we say, run? Walk. I love my walking. What can I blow up what, Raff? Sometimes we've never actually gotten, I see them quite a lot online, but those like alien blow-up ones.

Okay. Raff, that's, comes together. Yeah, sure. We will be aliens. For you as well, how are your friends at school about having Paula Radcliffe as a mum? Now, to you, it's totally normal. But for your friends, it's like, your mum, she's so far. Did you feel that?

Not really. It's mostly when I do well in running and I like win races or I qualified something. They're like, oh yeah, but it's just because you've got good genetics from your mum. But they act like I've been doing nothing since I was five. I've just been running, running, running, running. Isn't that funny people just think automatic? It's something you have to work out, isn't it? But they also, they don't have my surname.

So they have my married name. So that helps a little bit. And you kind of, for both of them, it was a while into their schooling before the penny dropped that mum and dad weren't like everybody else's mom and dad. And I can remember Ila and you were maybe five or six and she had to fill in something at school, like what my parents do. It's like my mummy does running and my daddy does emails.

I love that. That's brilliant. What did he say to that? I don't know. He was a little bit hurt because he kind of did do a little bit more than a few emails. So how old were you, Paula, when you just thought, this is that I'm going to run? When I discovered how much I enjoyed running, well, I just remember loving the feeling of running. And it just made me feel alive, particularly in the forest.

And we lived by a forest because I grew up in Cheshire. And so I would meet my dad who was getting ready for London marathons And we'd give him a little drink and a snack And I'd join him for maybe a kilometre or so Half a mile And I just loved running through the trees And so then as soon as I was old enough

I pestered and pestered him And he took me down to the local athletics club And then once I found that running feeling It's just for me it's just a feeling Of like the trees going past you And it feels like you're going quickly And it just made me feel alive and I just loved that feeling,

but then I got really into the competitive side, and I liked pushing myself too. And then it's not gone full circle. So now I'm really not bothered about the competitive side anymore, but it is my joyful place. It's my place that I go to just to feel better, to process things, to put things in perspective. If I need to think about something,

so often before we record a podcast, I'll go out for a run, just so that I feel a little bit fresher and a bit more on point in my head before I start it. We will. We're going to talk about your podcast, of course. I'm going to talk about the marathon and Ila doing a marathon with you. But I'm so fascinated by the running thing because there's a guy that we both know. I think his name is Chris Evans. I'm not sure. I think that's his son. But he found running and it changed him. And then everybody else I know becomes, I'm using the word lightly, obsessed with running because of how it makes them feel. People say that I'm like that about walking. Walking, I think, is one of the best things for mental health. And obviously, the planet and our heart and our soul and all of it and physically. But what I just fascinated by what it is, the DD is that this thing does to us. And it's hard to fully put your finger on it, I think. I mean, I think a lot is to do with maybe just increased oxygen flow to the brain,

just being in that happy place. I think it, and that's why I always say to people, really just try everything and find the one thing that works for you. Because for some people, it might be, I mean, it's my worst nightmare, but it might be sitting under a tree doing some yoga. Wait, is that your worst nightmare? Yeah. Yoga?

Not flexible at all. Really not flexible. But yoga, you can still do. You could do it downward dog. No, because I can't even get my foot. No. No. No.

No. Oh, no, of course. Your foot. You can't. So, yeah, so I can't do things like that. But running does it for me, so it's fine. I don't need to find anything else. I love that.

Your son's there going, no. I can't do it either. I'm really not. He inherited my friend. I was never ever flexible. Can you, Ila? Yeah, I used to do gymnastics, like pretty high level, but then I stopped. But now I wouldn't say I'm very flexible.

But you're a runner now? Yeah, it's... Well, you are, because you're doing your first London marathon with your mum. No, not with my mum. Oh, not together? I'm doing... I'm doing Tokyo and Boston. Yeah. Tokyo is the 2nd of March, and Boston's the 21st of April, and London's the 27th.

Yeah. So we'll all go to Boston. I'll finish my six marathon majors, so get the six star, hopefully, when I'll finish those. I think we can say right. And then Ila will run in London. And she's doing it to raise money and awareness for children with cancer UK. And also just because she was so captivated by the atmosphere, right? Yeah, so this is your first one, though?

Yeah, yeah, because I just turned 18. And so you can't run it if you're under 18. But me and Raff have always been around, like, the marathon atmosphere and everything. I think the one that really like marked me was 2015 and seeing how big of a deal it was and how much support you get from people and I think just the atmosphere you always talk about it

but is really magical and I haven't even ran it yet so I don't even know like... So are you training? Oh that's a stupid question but I don't I've never run a marathon you're not trained, your mum's just saying no ish I think I'm not going full out I'm not trying to do two hours or whatever. But I want to run the whole thing, yeah.

I love it, silence. Because mum's here going, I really want you to also concentrate on your exams because she's doing her final year of school, ready for uni. So she's under a whole lot of pressure. And I'm okay with it as long as she's using it to balance that out and not putting any more pressure on herself in terms of time-wise. So yeah, I'm okay with her just doing it to finish it and not really pushing hard. So you've got no fixed time.

because that's what people do, don't know. They want to do. So you did two hours and 15 minutes? Yeah. I couldn't do that now. I did do that 20 years ago. 22 years ago. Oh, my God.

It's just insane. That's incredible. It just feels like yesterday and it's not. Okay. I have asked you this before, but I want to know, have you done it yet? Have you put all of your medals on and carried them around all at the same time?

No. I don't think they're all in the same place, to be honest. They kind of spread out. Have you ever put your mom's mind? We'll kind of find them around. There'll be one over there, one over there. I love that. Yeah.

How many medals, if you tallied them up? Do you know how many? No, I mean, because I remember I started racing when I was nine. So I used to have all of my kids' medals in boxes and things at my mum's house. And she was like, can you just please just clear these out? So I did go through all of those and just keep the ones that were really important to me. So now all I've got, well, the ones you see lying around, like they say they see him lying around. They're like trophies that they give you for the London Marathon, Chicago, New York.

New York is actually their fruit balls on their rose balls and stuff like that. So they are about. And then World Championships, medals are, they're actually in the safe. Oh, well, I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised. Paula, do you know the most incredible thing about you? I think you're, I'm obviously, I'm not your child, which is obvious. But it's for meeting you, you give out such positive energy.

You've been through your struggles, but you give out so much goodness and so much energy. No, no, I'm being serious. It's when I saw you when you came on my radio show, I left there. I was properly, I felt like I'd been given an injection of oxygen. Is she like that as a mum? Depends on the day. Depends if... Oh, see?

No, it depends whether she's had her run or not. Yes, that can be true. She'll be so grumpy before she's had her run. Everybody's allowed to be grumpy. Yeah, no, no. Especially. I am all the time. Oh, you know, I don't believe you are all the time.

You're a teenage girl. Of course you are. Sorry, I've got a teenage daughter. Yes, I know. So for you, Paula, as well, there was, you know, to read about it. People talk about your asthma because you get asthma. You're not asthmatic, but you get... I am asthmatic.

Oh, you are? Yeah, I am asthmatic. So technically, mine was exercise-induced asthma. That's what I was going to say. But the worst asthma attacks I've had have just been either in, dusty environments like old cinemas and things like that. When you used to be able to smoke on planes, it used to really trigger me. That was awful, wasn't it?

Yeah. And then now if I get a cold, the risk of it developing to bronchitis or even pneumonia is greater for me because of my asthmatic, just because of the weakness in your lungs. But then it goes together with sport. So through my sport, my lungs are stronger. So would you advise people with asthma to then do more sport? Totally. And that's the biggest thing that we try and pass on.

And so I worked also with Asma UK. And just working with kids just to say, okay, you have asthma. It doesn't have to control your life. You control it. So you learn how to use a peak flow monitor and make sure you take your inhalers correctly. That's the biggest thing with kids is they take the inhaler and most of it goes out the side. It doesn't actually go down to where it's needed. So making sure that that happens and just learning to manage it and you're still learning.

That's so good. That's really good. Right. Let's talk about your podcast before. we get on to Isla Story and why you're running for children with cancer. Tell me about the podcast. So the podcast is fun and we're really, really having fun with it and enjoying it. And it's supported by Children with Cancer UK. And it is a 16 weeks, 17 weeks to London build up for the London marathon with a 17th episode afterwards, which is a bonus episode to wrap it up and tell all the

stories of the race itself because we have 1,200 runners raising money and funds and awareness for Children with Cancer UK. 1,200? Yes, in the London Marathon. So they're one of the biggest charities out there. And the London Marathon itself holds the Guinness World Record for the single amount raised on any single day. And that is, I think, is 73.5 million pounds.

What? I did not know that. It's huge, huge in terms of the difference that it makes there. So all of those people out there, I mean, we applaud anybody getting ready for the marathon and working towards it. But when you're also making a difference for those charities and when it's making that much difference to so many charities. So it's really just kind of celebrating marathon running, helping people, but lighthearted. And we have guest experts that come on each week. So we will have Hu Bracia, who's coming up in some.

The next one that we have dropping is Wendy Rogers, who's next speaker. but in nutrition and talks about the improvements in the gels and the fuels and everything like that. We will have... But you just do past or is that a myth? No, you do. Oh, you do, but carbloid. So she talks about why you carbload.

Right. And we've had the physiologist also come on and talk about that. So we had my physiologist that worked with me since 92, which was interesting. Physios are going to get coming on coaches and just trying to kind of share things like that. We had Nelma Candrew on, and that was brilliant because just, how enthusiastic she is. Bear in mind she was, well, I think she was doing a bit of glamour modelling. She'd done some fitness videos.

And then she came out and she ran 254 back in 2012. So pre-shoes revolution, which was absolutely phenomenal. So she talked about how she did that. So we're learning things. We have a little clip in each week about the children with cancer and why it's important, why the work that they do is so important and talking about different things there. And then, yeah, we just have some question and answer sessions, which we love doing.

It's going to help so many people. It's going to help so many people. Ila, you very kindly said you're happy for us to talk about your story. So people might not know what you went through when you were young. But if you're happy to talk about it. Yeah, so when I was 13, I was diagnosed with a germ tumor. A malignant germ tumor in one of my ovaries. And so this is like right after, well, during the COVID pandemic,

which I think made it a bit worse because... Of course it did, yeah. When you go through something like that, you are separated from your friends because you already feel different. And then that just made it a lot worse because I really couldn't see them then because of the cross-contamination.

Well, it's because after each of the chemo stays, she's immunosuppressed. So because of COVID, normally the kids can go back to school once they feel up to it, but she couldn't. So you basically missed the whole term up to Christmas, didn't you? Yeah. So how long did the chemo last? So I did three rounds.

So I would stay a week in hospital, a week, yeah. And then every week I would go in and have one drug. Yeah, so she would have a five-day stay of chemo drugs every day. And that was two of them. And then you'd stay for another two days while they saline flush everything out of her system. And then you'd go back every, so for the next two weeks. So that would be three weeks of the other drug. And so that went in those cycles

So cycles of three weeks A little bit longer as it went on Because you would take a bit longer for our white cell count To come back up to normal But it worked It worked very well And they got me in as soon as possible I was diagnosed

And then within a week I was already getting treatment That's incredible Yeah So did you have symptoms then Were there some symptoms And you suddenly thought I don't feel good

Started with minor tummy aches No No So throughout the summer I felt a bit faint and then because it's all kind of linked, I thought I'd started getting my period, but I would start fainting and I was in a lot of pain.

And so it got to the point where I asked my aunt, who's a GP, what's happening, like, what should I do? And my mum ended up just taking me to my pediatrician. And as soon as she felt my stomach, because I thought I'd gained weight. And so I started doing more exercise, but I was just so exhausted that it just, exhausted me more.

So as soon as the pediatrician felt my stomach, she's like, you need to go get an ultrasound. And so that's when they did all the testing and blood tests and stuff like that. And then they figured out what it was. I'm so pleased they found it quickly. How are you doing now? Yeah, now I'm doing completely fine. It's just like the years afterwards where you still do feel the effects of it. I remember going back to school when it was a big thing with heat flushes or memory.

It affects your memory a lot. And so I really had to work at that But I think now it's helped me in the long run I couldn't say I'm happy to have it. Really? That's incredible. In what ways it helped you? Because I've built up my memory because I had to go from a point where I would learn something

and then two minutes later I would completely forget having learned it And so now it's just like really Because the memory is a muscle So I've trained it, trained it, trained it And so now it's back to normal So it's just stronger. You're your mother's daughter, aren't you? Training yourself.

Now for you, Rav, that, you know, it was also COVID- but also to hear that your big sister had cancer, it must have been a very tough time for you as well. It was a tough time, but I was never really ever allowed to go see her because of COVID, so I would just have to sit out and just do homework and get on with it.

I was never ever really being able to show my sympathy for her while she was in the bed. I wish I could have come and see her while she had it, but I was never allowed. You could see it? Because we did FaceTime you in there, I didn't want to show you. I wish I could have seen it in your life.

You know what? It was a really tough time. not just because you had cancer, but COVID was a really tough time. And I think especially for young people. But he was brilliant. I can tell. He also, he'll play it down now, but he used because she lost her hair, he would sit for hours and let you curl his hair and style his hair.

The only supervisor being, she had to brush it out before we went outside the apartment. I'm not surprised, yeah. What did she do to your hair? I actually would let her sometimes do, like, whatever she wanted to do on my eyebrows and stuff like that. You still let me do that. Yeah, but. occasionally to get a favour from you. You know how to work your big sister.

Okay, I get that. For anybody who's going through what you went through, and for you as well as a brother and for you as a mum, any young person that's listening or to a parent or a carer who's listening, what advice from each of you can I, could you give? Paula, what advice would you give to a parent that's going through this? I think the biggest thing is to really rely on your family and friends. that is the whole support network that you need to have there

and it's really hard to describe how many ways they come into play like from Raph talked about the fact that he couldn't come in and as a mother of two children obviously for that short time one has to take priority but you still really worry about the other one so I have a very good friend whose child was in the same class as Ruff and she was basically I've got this I've got the school work I've got the school pickups I've got all of that if he needs to stay over. It's all sorted. So that's already one thing ticked off my mind to help. I have another one who

the first day you wouldn't eat anything would you. And we were really struggling to find things that she would eat. So my friend called and she said, she thinks she would eat my homemade pizza. And this was in the middle of COVID lockdowns. And she was like, yeah, I could. So she drove from Monaco to Nice to the hospital with the pizza homemade wrapped up in foil. It wasn't allowed into the hospital. So I had to meet her in the car park, take it in and then she ate it at all. You ate it all? Oh, what a huge compliment to her. That's fantastic. So yeah, you're right. Friends are. So I think that just being able to talk about it and just being able to process the fact that it's not just the child who's going through that.

It's also the not going to the effects on the family. And making sure that all of that is okay. But the other big bit of advice I would do is really leave the planning in the hands of the professionals because our doctors were amazing from the beginning. in telling us, right, this is the plan, it's going to work, put your faith in this. This is the cycles that we're going to go through, and then just taking it day by day, just doing what you can do each day. That's really good advice. And that's really important.

How about for you, for a young person that's listening to this that's going through that, or anybody who's going through it, actually, any way. Stay off social media. That was my biggest thing, because when you're online and you're scrolling or you're looking and you see all your friends are doing this and they're going out and they're all together. And that was a big thing. Yeah, that was a big thing for me, just seeing my friends, doing all that, and it made me feel left out. Of course.

And it's not something I could have controlled. So I think if I hadn't have been on social media, it would have made me feel a lot better about myself. That's such a good tip. Thank you. And I think that's for any age. Yeah. And also, you know, losing your hair for... Yeah.

It was a big image thing. Because you would see, like, people on TikTok or Instagram. And they show their hair. Like, I'm curling my hair or I just got my hair dyed or look at this new hairstyle. Oh, you can try and like, oh. Yeah, of course. That makes absolute, what a, that is the most brilliant bit of advice. And I'd never thought of that before, but thank you for that.

And how about you being, you know, being in the family and that's all going on? What advice would you give to a sibling? To try and show your support, even though you can't be with the person, to try and show your support and not, like, get stressed and stuff, that you can't do anything about it, just to, like, kind of be sympathetic and be nice to the person. while you still can. That's such a brilliant bit of advice. You too.

That's cute. You're so lovely. How did you look to have the rabbit for her? Yeah. Oh, what's your rabbit called? Jackson. Jackson. Yeah.

Good name for rabbit. Is the rabbit still? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. She wasn't allowed, because she was immunosuppressed again, she wasn't allowed to clean him out. But could you stroke the rabbit? Yeah, yeah.

Okay. I didn't know that. I didn't do the cleaning out. Oh, yes. It's like that. Oh, you can't if you've got cats as well. And so, yeah. Yeah, okay.

Get your brother to clean the poo. That's actually the thing. That's what you should say. I'll always clean out your animals. So for you, Paula, now you said that you've put aside the competitiveness. Does it really, really go? I think some of it is necessity. I know I can't run as fast as I used to be able to.

And yeah, you're right. I mean, I think it's always there at some point. like I'm very much a person if I commit to doing something, I want to do it as well as I possibly can. See? But I'm also very accepting of the fact that I can't do it anywhere near as well as I possibly could have done 20 years ago. And also, I think the period of time that I had out when my foot injury was really bad in 2012 really made me appreciate just being able to run. And so that really helps me not to be as competitive as I could be now,

because I want to be able to keep the possibility. of running in the future as long as I possibly can. Yes, of course. So, because it is a very osteoarthritic joint in my foot and they basically had to kind of remodel it with bone grafts and things. So it doesn't look like a normal joint. It doesn't behave like one. It doesn't look.

Does it not look like a foot? Yeah, but it's a very lumpy foot. It's got bumps and things sticking out. Because it's kind of like it was the navicular, which is in the arch of your foot. It was a stress fracture there way back in 94 in the beginning of my career. But then scans weren't as good and they didn't find it.

So it stayed. as a non-union. So it was basically where everybody else had one bone, I had kind of almost two, because I had a fractaline through the middle of it that never healed. And then bits would break off and it caused damage to the cartilage. So that was what the pain was. The two bones that are supposed to be spaced by cartilage were not on each other. And that was the pain. So they kind of fixed it, but it is osteoarthritic. And if I'm on it too much, it is sore. So I am very well aware of the fact that the day after the marathon, I won't be able to walk properly. but four or five days later, it should be back to normal.

But if I'm trying to do it too much. But aren't they quite close to each other, the ones that you're about to do? Five weeks. That's okay. Should be all right, yeah. Yeah, it should be all right. Maybe even fixing me. I actually do run.

I just recently qualify for the nationals in cross-country. Oh, please. Yeah, I do run. The nationals. He hasn't done very much before, have you? You've got more into it now. Yeah. Well, I was into it a lot when I was younger,

but then I just got a bit less into it with school and then I tried other sports but then now I've just come back to it a bit. Now that I'm a bit older and a bit more concentrated about it and do it a bit more seriously, it's just a bit better when you're more concentrate. That's just so cool. You just, what so fascinates me about you, Paula,

is that you've been so single-minded. And you know, you and I've said this before because I was, from the age of three, I knew I wanted to be a TV presenter. You knew from a very young age that you wanted to be a rummer. Some people give us funny looks when we say things like that. They go, oh, that's all, oh, and it's as if they don't like the word determined because it's sort of got negative connotations.

But it's not. You shouldn't have no, it shouldn't have at all because all you're trying to do is go after your dreams. And I also always say that I'm extremely lucky because I got to make my career out of my hobby. And I would have been squashing it around a day job if that's what I had to do. But I wanted to see how good I can be, could be.

And I was just lucky that it was good enough to make a career out of it. And then now still I feel like I do work and I work hard at what I do, but I love what I do. And it's very mixed up in lots of different ways. I get to meet some amazing people. I get to travel, which is what I always wanted to do

career-wise anyway. So yeah, I just feel like I'm lucky to be able to combine all of those together. How did people react to you? I mean, there was somebody here before who came and said hello to you. How did people react to you because you are a sporting hero? You know, you are. And there's no two ways about it. Is it a, what's people's reaction when they see you maybe running or walking or just around?

And everybody knows, Paul O'Recliff. You know, how are they towards you as they would be? to a rock star or a film star or something. It's a different thing. It is, particularly if I'm running. I think particularly if you're in running care and you're with a bunch of runners, I always say runners are the most friendly people.

Most people will shout out, hello, or good morning, good afternoon whenever you're running to each other. And I think they're pretty approachable. And I don't think I'm a really intimidating person. You're a lot at all. I think people do just come up and say, high and I love that. And if they just want a picture or if they just want some advice, I kind of want them to be able to do that because, like I say, running has brought me a lot of joy,

a lot of fun, met some amazing people. And I love to meet more. And often they're really, really interesting stories behind the people that will come up and introduce themselves or just ask a question. So I think that's really nice. And that running camaraderie, I can totally see why Eila feels pulled into wanting to do the marathon. And that's part of why I'm coming back to do it now. It's not, I've got no time goals whatsoever. I have no ambitions that I want to tick off there. Will you not look at the time? You will look at the time. I'd rather actually not know, because it's a lot slower than I know I would have done before. But it isn't there, I haven't run the marathon, but I've been at the finish line. Isn't there a big clock that tells

you how long? You can't really get away from it. So it will be there, but that won't be something, like I won't be checking my split times because I really miss the bars. For people who don't know what split times are, I'm sorry, if you go through the different marker points, so like 5K, 10K, half marathon points, there will be big clocks at that point as well, so you can look at those. And a lot of people, will we advise it in your first marathon,

is to not go off too quickly. So really check those early times through the first couple of miles, through 5K and 10K, not to go too quickly because it's much easier to finish faster than it is to go off fast and try and hold on. In the marathon, it doesn't work that way. It's painful. Do you listen to any music when you run?

I don't when I'm running, just because it wasn't really practical and available when I was growing up. And also, I like to be aware of my surroundings. And particularly in a big race, I would advise people not to, because the atmosphere is so electric outside of that. You don't need it. But a lot of people do during training. And if I'm on the treadmill or in the gym, I absolutely have to because I find that boring. But outside, I like to be in my own. There's nothing to look at or listen to other people's conversations.

But yes, I totally get that. Paula, as I said, you're a total joy. People can get your podcast wherever they get their podcast, can't they? Yes, absolutely. On Apple, on Spotify, bits on YouTube as well. So, yeah, it's all out there. We have an Instagram account as well where you can link to the podcast from there. And that's at Paula's Run Pod.

Lovely. And good luck to you for the podcast. Thank you. The podcast. Oh, yeah, for the podcast. No, for the marathon. Your very first marathon. Good luck with that.

And you were just the best brother. You were my younger brother. I really do. I think you're fantastic. Thank you all very much. Thank you for having us. Thank you very much.