That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Richard Armitage

Episode Date: January 21, 2025

Richard Armitage joins Gaby for a chat about all things joy and acting and bookishness and other things. They talk about Richard's books and writing (which have been picked up by Netflix to be adapted) and some of his iconic roles over his career.Richard has always been busy, but is finding joy in slightly slowing down - and in not knowing what's coming next - and Gaby asks him about the ups and downs of being an actor. (She also makes him sing, but that's another story) We hope you enjoy the episode and remember you can watch it all (and our extra Friday nuggets of joy) via our youtube channel! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Richard Armitage. Hello. Hello again. And every time I see you, I look at you in the eye and I tell you, the latest thing you're in is my obsession. How do you do that to us? It's become a kind of yearly event, hasn't it? It really has.

You become everybody's upset. I mean, back in spooks you were and even before that and everything. Oh, I thought you were talking about... I'm talking about missing you. Oh, missing. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, what did you think I should do?

I don't know. Oh, tell me. What did you think I meant? Did you just mean in my dream? I thought I was saying I'm a yearly event, but the show is a yearly event. No, it's been interesting. I've just put together a kind of Armitage brand deck, which I've never done before, which is gathering all of the work I've done over the past decade.

So it's a show reel in the old day? It's like a kind of visual thing where you just put down how many people watched it, how much money I took it the box. And I don't read reviews. I haven't read reviews for 20 years. Well, they're very good. I can tell you. I had to go through them or to pull out quotes. It's quite mortifying. So what did you

find out? Just the amount of people that have been watching the Harlan Cobain shows. How many? Coffee! Here's your coffee. Here's your coffee. Oh, perfect. That you are wonderful. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Look at that. That's good. I'm so demanding. No, I know. She, he brings it to me. I love it when it happens on it.

That's perfect. Makes me very happy. I'm slurping. So, yes, what did you find out? Just things like 293 million viewing hours, number one global, all of this. What? 293 million viewing hours, which means that's how many hours people viewed it for. Yeah, those kind of numbers blown my mind.

That's, that you can't That's, that's But also seeing it build from the stranger To stay close to forming ones And they're missing you like There's been a graph that went whoop So yeah, they're all very, very pleased So next January

There'll be another one lined up There will, I don't think I'll be in it Why? Well, I'm not in it Well, you know you're not in it I know I'm not in it Well they think I'm not in it I might just turn up in Manchester

And stroll on to see if they notice You can't, we'll just call Harlem though What do you mean? He's not in it. What do you mean? But the crew wouldn't notice. They'd be like, yeah, Armitage is supposed to be in it.

He's in all of them, wouldn't I? He's in all of them. I could just improvise my way. God, isn't that an extraordinary amount of people, though? I mean, that's the power of television. From when you started out in TV to now, and we were talking sort of 20 million people were watching shows and everyone was saying,

that's a vast amount. It was never going to be like that again. Yes, it is, but it's just in a different way. Yeah, and I, you know, there's part of me that, I'm glad I've lived through that bridge but I look back on something like Spooks which I just loved, loved, loved, loved, loved. I loved, loved, loved watching it.

But it never really caught, it wasn't at a point where there was a streamer. I mean, it was shown, I think they showed the first three series in America. But if that show was on now, it would be a Netflix show or it would be a global show. So, yeah, so I've lived through that transition. But it is amazing.

And I think Netflix is kind of unique in that global platform that everything's on at the same time, drops at the same moment. So I love them. I love being a Netflix boy. So I'm just going back on what you said, an Armitage brand. Yeah. Sounds weird. Did you just say that about yourself?

You are, I suppose you are a brand there because you're an author. We're talking about that in a minute. You're an author. You're a writer. You're a voiceover artist. You're an actor. You can sing and dance because that's how you started. and you still sing, because we saw you recently sing.

So you, you, yes, you are a brand. Do you have a clothing brand? No, I do. Do you have watches. I would love to do that. Do watches. You could be one of those, you know, that photograph with you just. Well, people on red carpets when they hold their arm like that,

and you're like, why are you starting? Oh, you're showing off your watch. Your watch. The reason I did it was because I've just taken on new reps in America because I haven't had U.S. representation. as an agent for a while. And actually it's like I need to sort of reintroduce them to me and to the marketplace,

which is slightly different to when I came out of The Hobbit 10 years later and I'm older. So I needed to do it. But it was quite useful exercise for myself. But yeah, I mean, it kind of is a bit of a brand like voiceover writing. Yeah. So which was you put at the top?

The top was the film. Was film first, then television. No, but I mean, what do you put at the top of you? Because you are, you do many things. You're in the old days, an entertainer. I'm an entertainer. Yeah. And actually, I really love that.

That's what, you know, from Robbie Williams to Judy Dent. Judy Dench says, I'm an entertainer. Yeah. So would you call yourself that as well? I would, in terms of where my passion lies, I would call myself a storyteller. Okay, like that. Okay. Because that incorporates music as well.

Yeah. Like my passion for music is a sort of storytelling adventure as a musician and as an enjoyer of other people's music. It's definitely storytelling. Okay. Dance. Dance is storytelling, isn't it? It's very interesting.

I was reading about you that you sort of felt that you had to turn your back on musical theatre years and years ago. Yeah. Because it's not serious acting. Did you feel that at the time? Yes. I imagine you don't feel that now. Not so much, although it's a skill I haven't gone back to.

I've been asked to, but I haven't. And I think it's because I've got other things I want to explore, and it feels like a part of my life that I did leave behind. But yeah, at the time, if you were in musical theatre, crossing over into TV or what's called straight theatre, I don't really like that. No, I know exactly what you. Yeah, yeah.

It was not, you just weren't in the room or on the list. Less so in America. Like in America, if you're a. Broadway star, you move around all over the place. It's not, we don't have quite the same. Snobby. I think it's a snobbery. Completely. I mean, I'm lucky that I did, I did a musical for a year in town.

And people, oh, so you're not a TV presenter anymore? No, I am. I can do, but no. Because you're just in their lane. You just stay over there while you do it. But look at someone like Hannah Waddingham. I mean, that's where she came from. She was a huffer at the same sort of time I remember, you know, on the audition circuit,

you'd see her name on all these lists, and it'd be like, ah, Hannah Woodrow. Well, actually, Bonnie Langford. Bonnie Langford then was suddenly on television in many dramas, Doctor Who, and then East Enders, and people said, oh, you can act, which is so patronising, no. But you say you've been asked, so would you be tempted? As a musical theatre fanatic, would you be tempted to go back?

Can we cast you? Yes, definitely. I mean, I would love a challenge. I have Kiss Me, Kate has brushed past me twice in the last five years of pretend. Was that it as a pun? Brush, but you know the songs in it.

That was very clever. People don't, they're not going to know what I'm talking about. But yes, so that, and you're tempted? I look at that type of musical, which is a kind of old-school book musical, and I know there are people out there with a much better ability to do musical comedy. If it was a Sondheim or something

kind of with a bit of dark, in it. Sweeney Todd, for example, I would jump at the chance. Oh, you'd be great as Sweeney Todd. Yeah. I'd love what I'd love to try. Don't laugh. They'll do it. The menier will be onto you. They'll say, darling. There are people out there with like phenomenal

singing voices that... Sorry, didn't put yourself down. I've heard you sing. We've all heard you sing. You can sing. You're a dancer. It's been a while. You can't sing. These old bones. You can sing. You can sing. You know you can sing. You're looking at me. Don't leave a pause like that like you're I'm expecting you to sing. Others have.

Many have. You did. Actually, when he came on my radio show, you did a little bit. Did I do a bit of Misty Mountains? Yeah, go on. Not I told you anything. A little bit. You just have some coffee.

You've got nice water. It's warm in your... It's not dairy either. It's oat milk. So you can't even say, no, I'm drinking dairy. There's a daylies in here, isn't that? You were, that's what you'd like. You could sing later if you like.

I'll sing later. Okay, sing later. But then, so from musical theatre, you then moved to screen. And then years later you went back to stage. I've seen you on stage as well. I sound like your stalker. That's really weird. I have because I love life theatre.

I had to go back to drama school in order to make that transition. I love that. So while I was doing Cats in the West End. Macafti. With Sarah Hadland. Yeah, with Sarah. And I did 42nd Street on tour with her as well. Yeah, I had made the decision that I couldn't,

I had to go back and retrain. to get a different agent and to learn classical theatre. So I did that for three years. And actually, the last year in Cats in the West End, I was squirreling away all of my understudy money. And my first term at drama school, I was still in the show. So I was finishing the drug. Oh, they crossed over.

Yeah. I was doing my drama studies in the day and then whizzing off to the theatre at night. And all of my people in my year were like, where are you going at night? They didn't know. Why are you not in the pub? I was like, oh, I've got to go do my job. They didn't know. Oh, I love that.

Whizzing off to put on a cat suit. Put your paws and the tail and the ears. Okay, so then you retrained. So you're very focused. I mean, I think you'd say that of yourself. You're quite determined and focused. And I mean that as a compliment because I think being determined and focused

about something you want is actually a really good thing. It's what people call manifesting or whatever word you want to use. Yeah, I think it comes. from dance training as well because there's a discipline there. I remember being in a dance studio looking at myself in the mirror,

looking at other people and thinking I'm not at your level. I've got to triple my work ethic to get to where you are. And I don't think I've ever lost that feeling of I'm always catching up so I've got to work twice as hard as everybody else. Well, that's interesting.

It gives me pleasure. Working hard. To do that work gives me good. Yeah, I totally get that. So you did your training at Lambda, and then you left and you did screen stuff. Yeah. And pretty quickly. Pretty quickly. Fairly quickly.

And then did you then sort of land at that after doing cats and all the other stuff you did? Did you land in that and just think, ah, this is what I wanted to be doing? Yes. And I think it was to do with the strange dichotomy of being quite. shy and introverted, suddenly being in theatre, which is a very kind of performative exposing medium, thinking there's a slight disconnect here going on to a TV set where you kind of work in private in a small way piece by piece on a daily basis. If you get it wrong the day before, you can start again the day after. No one's really watching until it comes out on telly,

and then I've run a mile. So yeah, that I really, and still, really enjoy that, the privacy of filming. That's interesting. Yeah. Can you explain that? Because I've never heard anybody else say it like that. That's very interesting. Well, you learn your scene and you go to work

and there's usually two or three people in the scene and a crew that aren't really interested in the acting. They're just interested in what they're doing, their piece of technology. So you feel like you're working in private in a way. Oh, that's so... It's intimate. It's much more intimate.

And then, of course, It took me 10 years to go back on stage, I think because I'd got so comfortable with the intimacy of filming. So then I went to do The Crucible, and that was a moment. Oh, gosh, I'm going to be on stage every single night with all these people looking at me. How was that?

I needed a ramp that it was like I had to kind of psych myself up to be in that public arena. It's very interesting with a lot of people that come on this. And I'm very open and I talk about it as much as I possibly can because I don't think enough people talk about it, talk about shyness and being shy and the awkwardness that comes with shyness. It's something that I've always, always dealt with.

And it's interesting hearing you saying that as well. There are a lot of people who are out there listening to this and thinking, hold on a minute. She's on telly, he's on telly, he's on stage, he's in movies. It is still there, but it's, we do what we love. But the shyness sort of doesn't go. Does it? No. But I, that's why I kind of advocate a lot. I don't actually do anything. I just talk about it for drama in school. Because I just think, for me, I was the kid who could barely string a sentence together because I was sort of introverted and, I mean, bullied.

But I think I couldn't work out quite why. I think it might have been because I was introverted. But drama and whatever it was, whether it was playing music, speaking, some text or reading, when I had other people's words, I suddenly flourished. And I look at school and I think it's the best thing we could give to children is the ability to communicate with each other with other people's words. I could not agree with you more. I go on and on about it. I think it's vital. I think it's vital nowadays when there's far more anxiety and every. Everybody's on their screens and there's a lot of closing down and fear out there that drama is just, it's vital.

Well, it gives you empathy as well. You know, you kind of tap into your own feelings that you don't always know that you've got. But weirdly, once you're in the play and the thing has started and you're in your character, I'm kind of sailing and flying. it's the getting from my house to the theatre through the stage door that that process takes a lot of mental agility. Because you're doing what you love when you're doing it but it's the actual, like you say, the ramp to get there is

that I'll take a deep breath. And I really struggled with, so for example, at the Crucible, it was such a long show and such a short gap between shows that I couldn't do any autograph signing after the matinee because I only had 40 minutes to get back on stage. So people would wait outside before the show and I just could, it almost would stop me from doing another play,

the thought of having to do autographs or photographs before I performed. So I would try and find ways to sneak into the building in disguise. But that's not because you really appreciate the fans. Absolutely. But it was just, I was in a headspace sort of like I've got, I'm, you know, about to do this performance. I can't break out of that.

Yeah. weird thing. But I love that you talk about it and it's important you talk about it. It really, really is. Let's talk about the, let's talk about missing you, which is on at the moment. I mean, yes, I binged it. I spoke to lovely Harlan and Rosalind the other day on the radio show and I speak to Harlan once a year about his latest show. I will be saying to him, why is Richard not in the next one? It doesn't make sense. But it's bingeable and we need it at this time of year. And this one, oh, I can't say too much so I don't want to do any spoilers. I was just about to say something. Episode five. Yes. And there are only five, aren't there? Because when people

say episode five to me, I'm like, that's three before the end. Yeah. It's heartbreaking, isn't it? Oh, actually, don't we can't? Anyway. Harlan said it's the one show that's made him cry everything time. That's what he said on Sunday. He said it's made him cry. And also, what I love about it is, All the twists that we expect and all the turns and all the surprises. And my husband, last night, we watched the final part. And my husband was saying, this just, it just never stops. It just, I'm now, you blame everybody.

You hate everybody. Every single person. Well, it's them. No, it's because of that. Oh, it's because of them. It's so clever. I mean, but all of them are so clever. He's a master at the, like you say, the up all night, page.

turning bingable. I mean, his books are the same. I love his books, yeah. But, I mean, I've really taken a leaf out of that book of how to construct a kind of thriller because especially a crime thriller, which I think this is, or it's a psychological, it's probably crime thriller, isn't it?

Because crime's been committed. Yeah, but it's like it does your head in. I mean, it is. It's playing your head. But making everybody a suspect. Yes, every single person. Every single person. But also applying something.

which you can relate to your own life. Like he always, I think a little itch that he likes scratching is digital fingerprints. So how we are online, what trace we leave behind, how we think we are anonymous when we're not. He used that in The Stranger. He uses the dating app in Missing. Yes. And though that scenario, I'm always like, where did you dream that up? Because, you know, finding somebody, finding your ex who suddenly disappeared from your life on a dating app.

and he's still around. And it's unfinished. I mean, that's the opening sort of... Yes, there's no spoilers because everybody knows that bit of it. But what I love about it is at this one, and the one last year,

and the year before, and the strange, all of them, is that it's a conversation starter and a conversation piece with friends you haven't seen for ages. You're saying, oh my God. So this year's... Oh, my...

Did you think it... Did you... And did you think it were... I can't say any of the words because I don't want to give anything away. But... it goes where you didn't expect it to go at all, even though I think, because it drives my husband, man,

because I always say, so-and-so did it. On everything we watch, and he'll say it. Did you think I did it? We can't say anything. We can't say anything. We can't say anything. But your character is not the nicest character in the beginning, is it? Oh, we can't say anything.

Oh, it's so frustrating. I'm quite good at this, because I used to have to do it all the time on Spooks. It's basically try and talk about it without telling you anything. Yes, I guess he's a man who was around during the time of what I would call the earthquake that happened, which is the death of Kat Donovan's father.

The father, yes. He's seen everything. He kind of knows what happened. He knows everything. He knows everything. But he's locked it away in a box, and she's looking for the key. Oh, that's good. You should be a writer.

Oh, you are! You are. Let's talk about yours now. Let's talk about Geneva. Isn't that exciting? It is. I mean, I actually don't have any acting work slated yet for this year. I've got my producer hat on because this week I'm sitting down with my writer-director and Sony to basically kick off 2025 with Geneva, the TV series. It is happening then? Yeah, yeah, we've got a director. Oh, congratulations.

That last time I saw you, you said I can't say anything. Yeah. So it's all moving forward. It's all moving forward. Are you in it as well, though? Yes. I have to be. It depends how long it takes to get it up and running, though,

because you know, TV development can take five to ten years. Oh, don't be ridiculous. I might be in my 60s, but no, hopefully we'll move it along quickly. But yeah, writer and director, so we will create a pilot episode and then go to all the broadcasters and say, well, what do you think about this? or world? Probably UK, but it is quite an international story. Yes.

And there are Americans and Canadians in it. So I think it could probably cross the Atlantic. Well, obviously, you've got a very good relationship with Netflix. I do. That's my little goal. Okay. Oh, this is so exciting. So when are you taking it to them?

We've got to write the pilot first, which is roughly 60 pages. It's like an opener. You've got to set up the story. but I've got quite a pretty strong idea of what's going to be in that first episode. So we should get that quite soon. Oh, this is so exciting. Yeah. Look at your face.

You look so exciting. So when will we all, when we'll be able to watch it? I'm saying January 26. That would be... That would be very quick. No, January 26. Well... Couldn't it be January 26?

It could be this time next year. It could, but we... Because it's set in a winter story. Yes, it's winter. Geneva, obviously. During the winter. Good title. We have to be filming it now.

So we would probably have to film it end of 25 into 26. And then it would probably be later in 26. So September 26. That's very, very optimistic. No, September 26. Yeah. The new season. I mean, six, six, I mean...

Yeah, no, you do really quick. Six months post-production. No, you don't need six months post-production. Because you know what you're doing. You're all really focused. It's fine. You can edit it. Yeah.

You can come in and edit. I'll come and do it. an on set report because I just I love the book. I really love the work. Thanks. It's do you know what? It's very funny because when I sat down, because I knew I was chatting to you last time, and I sat down and read the book

and usually what I do is, and I'm sure you've done it as well. When you get a script, you sort of skim. But I actually sat there and I was on the train. I was, okay? Oh, I've got to get off. It was that. Oh. And I was going from London to Manchester to do morning life. That's a nice. That's a nice tree. And I was sort,

oh god I get off the train it was that sort of book it's really good book I think it's wonderful you must be thrilled though the reaction yeah and also it was never supposed to be a book it was only going to be an audio book so

you know whenever people are you know potentially reading it and I was like have a listen as well because it's Nicola Walker reading the other character and it was created you and Nicola from Spooks days and that was completely accidental what do you mean it was accidental

audible kind of gave me a short list and I said yeah any of those actors would be great like looking at Nicola thinking she's not going to want to do this and then she said yeah and so we I mean this is quite a while back now this is 2022 we record but yeah I mean if you

if you liked reading it have a listen because she she's but I know what's going to happen phenomenal I know but and I love Nicola I have to say I do love Nicola why didn't you do your own because you do so many you've done how many million books Three million books

I did I did it's me I read it No I know No but why don't you do them all You could do every book You do three million I haven't listened to your one

I did read missing you Yeah Can you believe that You did miss you Yeah What the audio book Yeah Before you knew it was happening

If there isn't enough of me In the whole In Cobain universe I've just recorded missing you Does that go in brand arm I feel like it would be, it would be Holland Copenhover. He'll be rolling his eyes going, God, not him again.

You know, come on. You do know that I'm going to, at some stage, sort of at one o'clock in the morning when I'm doing breakfast or saying, when I get up really early, I'm just going to WhatsApp you, Brand Armaged. Oh, my God. What have I said? Giving me nightmare.

What have I said? So, what, you did that all those years ago? You did the audio book for missing you? No, only recently. Literally this year. Oh, I see. Okay. I did go, I did kind of go, you sure you want me to read it as well?

as be in it. And anyway, it was quite a breeze because I knew all the character's voices. I'd literally just been on set before. That's fantastic. But no, really, I love audio work. I love it. He's doing something with Reese Witherspoon, isn't he? Yes. So you could do that? You could be in that? Yeah. You and Reese? Rees. Yeah. So you know, so you lived in America, though. You lived in New York. Yeah. I do. Do you still live in New York? Yeah, I split my time between New York and London. So, so. Brand Armitage. So when you get to America, And it's Brad, do you say it differently? When you go on the shows in America,

is it, hey, I'm in New York? They call me armetage. Do they? Yeah, they frenchify my name for some reason. I'd slightly wince, but. Brand armortage. That's quite cool. Thanks.

It works. Okay, so you said you've got no acting work lined up. I think that brand armortage isn't going to be the sort of, I do think, Richard, you're not going to sit back and go, oh, I'm not going to work. There will be stuff coming and the exciting thing is that you're working on your own stuff and you'll be able to say, I'm so sorry I'm busy.

Yeah, well, normally I would be in a slight panic going, well, I've got no call sheet, I've got no set to be on. But actually, I've got quite a lot on my plate because the work on Geneva, the cut has also been optioned. Which is amazing. We're still in contract. But then I'm planning a third book as well. So it's...

So you're writing. at the same time as well. Yeah. Well, I'm going to try. I need to see the workload, but I'm going to... Oh, that's, that is crazy. I've been plotting. I've got a couple of, I've got a couple of treatments for the next story. But whether I've got the time to do it is... Oh, you have? You'll find the time to do it, because you love what you do. It's my, yeah, it's my Sunday morning treat to sit down and just write a chapter. I love it. One chapter a week? I'll get the calculator out and look at the deadline and figure out how quickly I have to write. I love your outlook on life.

So apart from going and doing Sondheim and doing your TV show for Netflix and the next book and the next one as well for Netflix, so that's a double whammy. And probably turning up on set in Harlan Coben's next thing in Manchester. And the musical, yeah, we mentioned that. What about music-wise? Are you going to carry on doing music?

One of the ideas I had for a third story, I probably shouldn't say this publicly, but I did want to try and incorporate music into somehow weave it into the story so that it bridged both an audiobook and a kind of vocalist, vocalist, so I would potentially sing through the book. Oh, I love that.

I don't know whether it's possible. Of course it's possible. It might just sound a bit like a vanity project. So what? I'm thinking about how to weave in music. Because you know Spotify started producing audiobooks and it's like, okay, So if the music channel can do audio work, then maybe the audio work can use your music.

I know, I'm looking for new avenues. Go on, now you can say, because you mentioned it. You did say at the end, you'll see. Is it the end? Well, not yet, but it's just saying. Should I do Misty Mountain? You can do whatever you want. Happy birthday to you.

Happy birthday to you. Is it your birthday? No. Not for a long time. Birthday, not for a long time. Not for a long time. Happy birthday to... Oh, well, that's it. I can see.

Yeah, yeah. You know what? That's how to copyright. So you can sing that anywhere. Do you know, years ago... You're not allowed to play it, though, are you? No, you are. But not in a movie. Oh, on television and radio, you're allowed now.

Oh, are you? Yeah. Because years ago, when I used to do a breakfast show, with a guy called Chris Evans. And we used to show called The Big Breakfast, and we weren't allowed to sing Happy Birthday then, because it was in copyright, and it would cost a fortune. It's gone.

But now... You can. I like to think that was the alternative Marilyn Monroe. What you... Marilyn Monroe after she said I'd had a lot to drink. That was the armatar version. Oh, you're just so much joy. Oh, I just think you're fantastic.

Carry on doing what you do. Please don't stop. And carry on being on every show on television. That's right. Because there's just not enough brand armaged around. I can't believe I'm embarrassed. You're never going to be able to forget it. You are a good joy.

Look out for my clothing line. On the watch.