That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Richard E. Grant

Episode Date: November 23, 2020

In this episode, Gaby chats with Oscar and BAFTA nominated actor Richard E. Grant. He shares what it’s like to be Oscar nominated and the unexpected success of ‘Can You Ever Forgive Me?’ with Melissa McCarthy. He recalls being star-struck at incredible showbiz parties with name clangs like Diana Ross, Timothée Chalamet and Winona Ryder. Meeting his hero Barbra Streisand and telling her that he has a three-foot sculpture of her face in his garden! He talks about his long friendship with comedy legend Steve Martin and his adoration for Dame Julie Walters. He reminisces about the cult comedy ‘Withnail & I’ and how he delighted fans by posting re-enactments on Instagram during lockdown. Plus, he reveals the astonishing secrecy involved when filming ‘Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker’ and the upcoming Marvel series on Disney + called ‘Loki’.              Produced by Cameo Productions, music by Beth Macari.  Join the conversation on Instagram and Twitter @gabyroslin #thatgabyroslinpodcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And welcome to that Gabby Roslin podcast with me, Gabby Roslin. In this episode, the hugely talented and completely lovely and humble Richard E. Grant. He tells us what it's like to be Oscar nominated and the unexpected success of Can You Ever Forgive Me with Melissa McCarthy, which I loved. I love that film. He tells us fascinating stories of being starstruck at famous parties. Honestly, he makes us feel like we're a fly on the wall at these superglitzy events. He talks about meeting his hero, Barbara Streisand, and commissioning a three-foot sculpture of her, bless him, his friendship with Steve Martin and Dame Julie Walters, plus the incredible secrecy involved when being in Star Wars and the upcoming Marvel series on Disney Plus, Loki. And of course, we chat about with Nail and I.

So the very first time I interviewed you, I remember I left and I felt like I was skipping on air because you are just, oh, Joy balloon. I don't know that my wife would agree with you that, Carrie, but I'm delighted to hear that on this rain-sodden morning, you feel that. Oh, no, I really do. And actually, it's very interesting because when I told people that you were coming on to the podcast, everybody said, oh, he just makes me smile. I'm going to take you back to the joy that you spread with the whole build-up to the Oscars.

I remember just waiting with bated breath for your next video that you post. on Twitter or Instagram, of you either leaping backwards onto a bed or talking about Barbara Streisand. And we've got to talk about her because that's where we last saw each other was at her concert. That wonderful childlike joy is something special. And you had that before for a long time, haven't you? It's very generous and kind of you to say that. Because I had never experienced anything before or since like that run up to the Oscars. It essentially began in September a couple of years ago when Melissa McCarthy and I had made a minuscule budget film called Can You Ever Forgive Me?

And they were already talking about the title was too long, who would go and see a movie with that title or these two people in it, about a lesbian writer who was a commodian and misanthropic who embarked on this fake letter writing crime spree. And when we arrived at the Telleride Film Festival in Colorado, which is literally a one-horse town ski resort, we had no idea that this film would have any kind of legs or life to it other than having a very, very small release. And we went to see it on a Saturday afternoon together for the first time, with an audience for the first time. And the quality of how people listened,

laughed and then we could hear them crying at the end was something that none of us anticipated. And then it started snowballing and started going from one festival to another and critics and journalists kept saying, oh, you know, you're going to be in here for the long haul. You'll be doing this until the middle of February. And I said, what do you mean the middle of February?

And they said, well, that's when the Oscars are. And that seemed so utterly ludicrous an idea that I thought that this was, you know, a case of American enthusiasm, which as much as it's welcomed when it comes hurtling at you at a thousand miles an hour and there's avalanche of praise, you know that equally quickly, they shift focus and somebody else or another thing will grab their interest, the next glitter ball of excitement. And you'll be left in the sort of soap suds of, you know, oh, what, yep, no, we don't remember what you were talking about.

So the fact that it's snowballed and continued to get the, this critical awards momentum was something that none of us could have anticipated. Melissa McCarthy had already been through this on bridesmaids and got an Oscar nomination about a decade ago. So I thought, well, she's the best guide for how to navigate all this. But even she said to me, nothing has been like this. So you couldn't help but, you know, just go along with it. And because I've been starstruck at my entire. life. I kept meeting people that I had so long admired or newly admired who knew my name or had seen a movie. So that was extremely welcome and delightful. And then what really made the whole

thing even more enjoyable, it sounds like a contradiction in terms, is that the five actors in my best supporting category, we kept meeting each other at various events and awards ceremonies and farla. It was crystal clear to us within at least two months before the BAFTAs and the Golden Globes and the Oscars was those of the big three of all these awards in the award season, clear that Mahershala Ali was going to win for Green Book. So we jokingly used to say to each other, and have you prepared your acceptance speech and we'd do this mime of taking something out of our jacket pocket and say, I'd like to thank Mahershala Ali because we just knew that he was going to win. So what I'm saying is that it made it somehow easier that there was no false delusion that we were going

to get there on the night and suddenly another name was going to be announced. So it meant that you could enjoy the ride of it without thinking, you know, do I really have a chance here? That old chestnut of saying, you know, it's just an honour to be nominated. I am living testament to what that actually felt like and it was genuine. So when people said to me afterwards, oh, you know, It must be awful. You must feel so sad that you lost. And I said, that is not how it felt remotely. It felt like a win-win situation to me. Oh, how fantastic. And I love, I absolutely love that you get starstruck. Who were the people that you just sort of would think, oh, look, oh, I've spoken to this one? After the Governor's Ball that happened straight after the Oscars, there are various parties that go on

all through the night. And I went to the Vanity Fair party. And there was everybody from, the youngest person who was sort of 19 and out of the hatches from Timothy Shalame and that generation of people to Diana Ross at the other end and Barbara Streisand and everybody in between that it was literally like walking to Madam to sort and I think because there were no there were no press other than I think they had a couple of official photographers at the Vanty Fair which you know took snaps of people as they were coming in but once you were inside the party, it was a real bun fight that everybody could do and say anything they wanted to without,

you know, without censor. So that was an amazing thing. It felt like the sort of A to Z of fame all in one room. It was, it was absolutely extraordinary. I loved it. Oh, well, I mean, that does sound intoxicating. When you were 16 and Bunny Barnes, your piano teacher, and I've read all about Money Barnes and your love for her. And she said, if I'm right, she said, you can never be too curious. And that, to me, is about walking into those places. And seeing people who have this incredible talent,

it must have just been glorious. It was, but what I was so touched by is that somebody who is a household name, and I won't say who she is. She's an American movie star. and she came up to me and her opening words were, you won't know who I am. This is a person who has won an Oscar

and has an incredible career. And in that moment, I said, what do you mean? I won't know who you are. I've seen you on Broadway and I listened to what I'd seen her credits there. I said, you know, I know you've got Oscar nominated this and this and this and you won it for that.

And her eyes filled up with tears and she said, I can't believe you know who I am. It absolutely summed up the formula that I've understood actors to be that on the one hand, you have to have a big ego in order to survive this career, while at the same time having low self-esteem, which is a contradiction because you think, well, if somebody is famous or talented or whatever they are, surely they must know or feel that they are, you know, 2,000% worthy of their position in the pecking order. But time and again, I've rarely met an actor who didn't fit this.

this combination of large ego, low self-esteem. It's the nature of what we do. Going back to your earlier question about the Oscar ride and being joyful about it, I knew that it would never happen again and never happened before. So just being there, being in that room, however briefly felt like some kind of achievement. Can we go back to Bonnie Barnes, your piano teacher?

How important is it? I think you're going to say very, but to have the support of somebody in your teenage years, who really believes in you? Absolutely profound. And I think from, you know, I remember that Tom Hanks talked at the Oscars and outed his great drama teacher mentor who hadn't been outed at that point. And I think Tom Hanks in, while generously saying how important this person was, didn't realize what effect he'd had on this man's life. Anyway, in relation to Bani Barne, she was a Scottish woman who had. come out because of lung problems from Scotland and come to Swazin because the climate was much more

suitable for her recovery. She came out there in 1950s and she was my English and French teacher as well as my piano teacher and we then became friends outside of, you know, while I was a teenager outside of school because she was the musical director of all the amateur musicals that were done at the Swazland Theatre group where I grew up and having somebody that absolutely believes in you who is in a position of authority, which he was as a teacher and then became a friend, was something that I can't even put a price on that

because if your own family is justifiably wary of you going into a profession that they have no experience or knowledge of whatsoever, but having somebody that absolutely says, I think you can do this whilst also being realistic and critical, who isn't in your office? family. That is, was gold dust for me and we stayed, uh, in touch, wrote emails and letters to each other, um, up until she died. Uh, yep. So she is, she's somebody that I value hugely in my life and I

feel that she's, she's still here. And I love that she knew that and I, and that she saw you become the huge success and, and doing what you wanted to do when you were a teenager. That's so lovely for her that she was able to watch over that. Yeah, no, it's true. So that was a real, real bonus. And thank you for bringing her up. Can we talk about, you mentioned Swaziland. And the very first time I met you, I told you my family all from Zimbabwe. And I'm passionate about Africa, the beauty and the people and the animals and the sky. The African sky, there's nowhere quite like it. That is absolutely true. But at the same time, I always felt because I, even though I was born, there, I'm a white person.

So my father was very, very clear, ever since I could remember, he said, even though you're born here and insisted that I learn a language, he said, never forget that you're a guest in this country. Yes. I think that that was, on the one hand, it's saddened me because I thought, well, do I, do I, am ever able to properly belong here? And I suppose, in a sense, I don't. but it leaves a mark on you that, as you just expressed, is indelible.

So whenever I go back there, which I try and do once a year, I know whether you have this experience, but just landing there and the smell of it. The smell. The landscape and just everything about it has an enormous impact. I took my husband and the girls who'd never been. And I'm actually going to get really emotional, weirdly, suddenly saying it. But landing there and showing the girls where my other home was just incredible.

When you said the smell, that's what made me suddenly emotional. The smell of landing in Harari and coming out and imagining that my granny was still there and my cousins were still there. And saying, this is where I used to come every year. This is my second home. And then they landed and they went, look at the sky. And I just burst into tears. and I just, it's such a special place. Well, that's, you can't, you know, you can't bottle that.

No. Although you tried to with Jack perfume. Are you still doing perfume? Yep. I just brought out a fourth one called Jack Richmond, which is based on the smell of, smell and memories of Richmond Park, which is where I live.

But the perfume thing came about because when I was 12 years old in 1969, I had a mad crush on American girl called Betsy Clap with a double P and she was very fast talking and chewed gum and it was the first American I had ever met. And it was, you know, the summer when Neil Armstrong landed on the moon for the first time, everything American seemed so exotic and glamorous to me. And I didn't have enough pocket money to buy her scent for a birthday present. So I tried to make it out of crushed gal demure and rose petals boiled up in sugar water in jam jars.

So, of course, you know, it turned a stink bomb. It took me another 40 years to actually do it professionally. And I was on a chat show during the Oscars run up. And somebody asked me about my perfume, just as you have kindly done. And I then got a message from Betsy's sister to say, you are talking about my sister, Betsy Clown, because I had no contact with her whatsoever in four decades. And I found out that she was living in Maine and that she was widowed.

And so I then started up an email correspondence with her. all these years later, which was absolutely bizarre. Never thought that would happen. How incredible. I love stories like that. But you're very good about keeping in touch, I suppose. I mean, because there were so many stories when I was reading all about you. Your diaries, though, the curiousness and the memories and everything,

because you've kept diaries since, were you 11? When I grew up, there was no television. They got TV in 1979, I think. It was a way of, I suppose, keeping yourself company in some way. And it's also because the things that have happened in my adult life are so beyond anything that I could possibly have dared dream would happen in my life. It's a way of making them real or grounded because at the end of the day, if I've met extraordinary people or done something that was absolutely amazing, writing it down, it's a way of making it real and understanding that if I look back and go, well, in 19, whatever it was, this happened on this day. and I didn't meet this person. It wasn't just a phantom.

That's what it comes down to. So what did you write the day you met Barbara Streisand? Because this love for Barbara, I mean, I love her too. I mean, our faces at the Barbara concert, we waved at one another. I, beyond excited. When you met her, what did you write in your diary? That I had a 22-minute conversation with her. I had this extraordinary situation where I was filming the play.

that Robert Altman directed in 1991. And I was at a party above Sunset Boulevard. In this room, every single person was household name incredibly famous. And a 19-year-old actress came up to me called Winona Ryder and started quoting Wisniel to me. And I said, you know, thank you very much. And she at that time was with Johnny Depp. And they said that they loved this movie.

They knew every line of dialogue. and that I had to be in Dracula, that she was going to be in, to be directed by Francis George Coppola. And while I was listening to this, at the corner eye, I saw somebody that I thought was Barbara Streisand about four meters away. And I said to Rosanna Arquette, who was talking,

who was with Winona. And I said, is that Barbara Streisand? And she said, yes, do you know her? And I said, no, I don't. And I started sort of frothing at the mouth. And she said, well, do you want to meet her? And I said, you want to meet her. So she said, well, hold on.

She said, I know her. So she went off. And I said, oh, but you have to know in advance. I've just seen a preview because I knew the screenwriter, Becky Johnston, of Prince of Ties that had been done. Just tell her that, so that at least that was my sort of get in so that she wasn't just being asked to meet a total stranger. Anyway, Rosanna Arquette went off.

And 10 minutes later, she came back. And she said these magic work, she said, Barra Stryton, this is Rishi Gras, this is Barreux, this is Barstresson. And Stratton said to me within the first, I think, 60 seconds, she said, are you stoned? I said, no, no, because obviously my pupils were about dilated to the size of golf balls. I said, no, no, I'm just completely, ah. And she was, you know, she obviously has, you know, spent decades of her life dealing with maniacs, like you and I coming up to her and going, you know, sort of unable to, you know, keep it together.

and like a good psychiatrist in a mental asylum, she diverted me and started talking about something else, and she said, you know, I'd seen you in Henry in June, can you tell me about Philip Bruselow, the cinematographer, and then got round to Prince of Tides. And so that was the conversation we had. And then I subsequently seen her at concerts and things, but when I tweeted this thing during the Oscars

that I had written a letter to her when I was 14, and I quoted what this letter was, and this accompanied a picture of myself standing outside her gates at her Malibu house. And a day later, she replied, which absolutely flawed me. And she was very complimentary about the film. And she said, love Barbara at the end of it. And I literally, I levitated. And then I subsequently met her for an entire evening at Donna Karen's house.

So I had a two-hour one-to-one conversation. with her that went on until one o'clock in the morning sitting closer that I am sitting next to this screen talking to you right now and that I remember every I literally as soon as soon as I went back to where I was staying I wrote down verbatim every single thing that we had discussed so one of which was that I told her within about five minutes of speaking to her that I had commissioned a a three-foot-tall sculpture of her profile. And she said, no, you're crazy. And I said, yeah, I know that.

And she's no, no, no. You are insane. So I said, yes, gratefully acknowledge that. So I have that. I know what you've, I've seen pictures of it on your social media. It's beautiful. It is. Absolutely amazing.

Huge. And so it's in my garden. So I see her every day. I love that. I got two hours with somebody that you've felt so passionate. about since the age of 14? Yeah, and there was no, you know that thing where you can meet somebody who's your idol and you can be disappointed because the flesh and blood version of them doesn't begin to match

the fantasy conversation you've had with them in your head and your heart for decades, but it was amplified rather than reduced meeting her in that circumstance. But I think it, you know, people always say, and I'm sure people always ask you, Was it disappointing to meet so and so? I don't think anybody should ever be disappointed to meet whoever it is. Because so long as you're curious, I'm curious. I'm nosy, actually. I'm just nosy.

But everybody has a story. And to meet the people that you've always wanted to meet, it's such an incredible. We're so privileged to do that. I agree. And her husband, James Brolin, was very accommodating because there was nobody left at this party by one o'clock in the morning except for James Ronan was talking to Donna Karen

and I was sitting on a sofa bed next to a pool, yacketing away to his wife. So I'm very grateful to him for him allowing me that amount of time. Oh, that's so lovely. Do you still feel that about anybody else? Is there still somebody that you'd like to meet now? There are lots of people that like to meet, but the person that I like to jump the bones on, that's, you know, that remains the one and only. I ask everybody in this podcast, what makes you laugh? What makes you properly belly laugh?

There's an actress that I'm sure you've never heard of called Dame Julie Walters. She's extraordinary because Julie is not anecdotally funny in that you don't sit with her and she tells, you know, endless showbiz stories or things that are funny. she just has funny bones. And to be in her company is one of the great privileges and delights of life, never mind just the fact that she happens to be an actor as well. So her view of things and her generosity and inclusivity are something that's, and I don't see her that often. But when I do, it feels like the sun has come out for.

five times over. So she is, she is the person that is the funniest person I think I've, I've ever met and know. I'm just going to tell you a story about her, because that's very interesting. Earlier you said about, do you know who I am? And I, I don't say this publicly, so I'm saying it now for the first time, but a few times I've met, Julie. And each time she comes up and she runs up to me, she says, I don't think you know who I am, but my name's Julie. Do you remember me, Gabby? And each time I, I, I just hug her and say, are you, are you mad? She's just lovely.

Yeah, I agree, wholeheartedly. Can I just ask you about Steve Martin as well? Because this is somebody, because you did LA story with him, and I read that you've kept all of the faxes that he, in those days of facts, people who are listening to this might not know what are faxes, but those were when emails could be printed at home through a funny machine. But you kept all of the faxes backwards and forwards from LA story. Is that right?

He has kept them all. I've kept, I've obviously have the emails that we email correspondence over the last 20 years but he kept the stuff that we faxed each other since 1990 and he said to be rather cryptically it's as thick

as a Bible and I said this has to remain completely confidential and he said well I've got this so you know as you are if you're great friends with somebody incredibly honest and forthright about stuff so yes it has

I hadn't taken on board how thick it was, but when I last saw him, he showed me this file that filled a shoebox. He has the evidence. I love things like that. Okay, we have to go to With Nell and I, and the joy of your doing the quotes, the lockdown quotes from With Nail and I,

do you remember every word of the script? I mean, we all do. It was the only script that I've ever remembered, apart from bits of Shakespeare, but and those lockdown quotes came about because somebody on Twitter asked me to if I would record a line and post it so I did and then as these things happened and without any premeditation or you know planning or whatsoever that snowballed and people said well could you do this line or so I became a it's kind of

human jukebox of, well, could you do this line or could you do that one? So that's how it came about. And I had no idea that it would become as big a little thing that it did. Did you know that the film would become? None of us had any idea because when it came out, it was, I think it was released in about six cinemas, was around for a few weeks, got pretty mediocre reviews, and then disappeared, obviously video and then subsequently DVD prior to streaming, were the thing that gave it this student in university life and developed a cult following. But without that, then, I think nothing would have happened to it. So it then got re-released, I think 10 years after the film was made, a much wider release.

So it's been a real slow burner of a success story, really. And they had nothing going for it because they said the title was unpronounceable. Nobody knew any of the actors at the time who were in it. Crocodile Dundee was the big hit of 1986 when we were filming it. So this film had no women to speak of crocodiles or car chasers. There are any of the things that were supposed to be box office at that point in time. So the fact that it has this status now as a great British comedy is something that none of us could have anticipated.

So, you know, very grateful for it. But I get that. every time you talk about it, you can hear the gratitude. I get that you're pretty grateful for a lot of things. I mean, if you could, you know, that is definitely a sliding doors moment, that film for you. But if you could go back and do any of the film, this isn't my question. Okay, this is my 13-year-old's question. She wants to know if you could go and do any film again.

I think she wants you to say Star Wars, but I haven't told you that. If you could do any film again, which film do you think, oh, I'd like to do that? all over again. Gosh, you know, I never, until I get, I'm in the situation now with you asking me these questions, I'm always thinking about, excuse me, the next job that I'm doing, or the one that I've just finished. So I don't look back too much. That's a good way to be. You're talking about things that you're doing in the future. So obviously, everyone's talking about Jamie, seen the stage show. I remember seeing the original documentary. So you finished doing that, That comes out any minute, doesn't it?

Well, it was supposed to get, because of COVID, it's now coming out at the end of February. Okay. And also, are you still doing the show in the States? You're still doing dispatches from elsewhere? No, I finished that last year, and I've just come back from Atlanta, and I've done a part in the Loki series with Tom Hiddleston. Of course, Loki. So when does that come out, then? I have no idea because they're still filming it as we speak.

So I literally have no clue as to when it comes out next year, next year sometime. And do you know what the next job is from now? Or are you having that? I do. And because of the things are so, people are so wary of information getting out or what parts people are playing, that I'm under embargo to not say what it is. I love that. I love that.

But isn't it like that when you do Star Wars? Because Star Wars, you're not allowed to even tell anybody the name. of the character or something. Yeah, absolutely. They called the film something else. While we were making it, I never even told my wife and daughter the name of the character. And you had to go from,

you had to be covered in a hood and a cloak going from, you know, the trailer where you get dressed and made up into the actual studio because there were drones flying overhead, trying to get information. And I know on a daily basis, the makeup and hair and costume departments were, sent misses from various

tabloids and magazines saying, can you please give us any information? We'll pay you this money. That is how curious people are. The same things happen

on this Loki job as well, same thing. You have to wear a cloak and... You're kidding me! Seems ludicrous to me, but that's the way of the world at the moment.

So with all the important things that are going on, they put send drones over Loki and Star Wars so you don't know who might be coming from a trailer? Exactly. Yeah, or what character they might be playing

or what costume they're going to be wearing. You know, in the scheme of things, it's, you know, it's complete bonkers. I think we need some bonkers. We really do need some bonkers right now. Richard, you are a complete lot of joy. I know I started like that, and I'm going to end like that, because you really are a joy. And for so many years, you've given me such pleasure

with all of the films that you've done, all the interviews I've watched, and each time I've met you, and on social media, please carry on doing what you do because I hope you understand what pleasure you give a lot of people. And I know from the beginning you obviously don't like a compliment, but please take it. And I mean every single word of it. So thank you so much for joining me on this. Thank you, Gabby.

Thank you for having me. I'm so grateful. That Gabby Roslyn podcast is proudly produced by Cameo Productions. Music by Beth McCari. Please press the subscribe button and it will come straight to your phone on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you choose to listen. please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts.