That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Sally Lindsay

Episode Date: January 30, 2024

Sally Lindsay joins Gaby for a chinwag about all things joyful! They talk about her fabulous Madame Blanc series, their love for their dear friend Paul O'Grady and what brings them joy on a daily basis. We also learn a few state secrets about Sally, never before revealed.... Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

quite like Sally. Really? That's how we're starting. Yeah, of course we are. Do you know the nice thing is that only people of a certain age will know that tune. Name that tune in one. Go, Sally Lindsay. There's no one quite like Grandma. It was number one in 1980 for four weeks, the Christmas number one, for four weeks. And you sung it.

And I was seven in it. And I was a standing for the lead. I was still in infant school. So they nick me from infant school. and a tiny little voice. How did that song? That didn't last. The minute it comes on

that any of us who were young enough to remember it, no, old enough, that makes sense, when we were young, it came out. But everyone's grandma. There's no one quite like Grandma. It was quite a phenomenon really because it was basically just the way that came about, if you're interested,

there was a song called Match Talk Men and matched cats and dogs by Brian and Michael which was massive. A painted match dog yeah about Lari obviously and it was our choir was used as a background and in just a normal school choir

like a local Stockport school choir and that led them to write Grandma and it was just an offhand thing that was never going to you know and it seemed to be the zeitgeist of the novelty record and that was it and we were everywhere it was ridiculous and then after that

We made about four, I was there for another four years. So Winifred's Girls Choir. School choir. Yeah, my brother was in it. And so I was there for another five years and we must have made an album a year. And we made them at TNCC Studio in Strawba Studios in Stockport. You're kidding me. You made more.

Yeah, we made like Disney albums, Catholic albums, blah, but any album you could sort of, you know, put a kid on. We made it. Oh, my word. Yeah, so, I mean, I'm not quite up there with my husband, but. Yeah. Well, we can get to Steve. Yeah, but I mean, you know, what they called the start, the start, no, I can't remember that. You know, Winifred School Choir, but the style, the style.

Style counsel, never heard of them, no. Never heard of them. Who were they? Yeah, we'll talk about Steve and the twins and everything. Okay. But I love that that's where you started and every, you know, that not everybody knows that of you, but when they do know it, you do twinkle when you talk about it because it's, I mean, you're seven years old. And it was great because I could take, I was with my brother as well, so I never felt frightened.

he's 50 months older than me and still one of my best friends and so I was with my brother because I was really, really little but I thought, but I always been quite brave so I had a lovely time and to be fair, people say did that start you off in your career?

Absolutely not. I didn't do anything till I was 24 after that. You know, just, I'd always love drama what was the time? What did you do then at 24? What was the thing you did at 24? So I did, so what happened?

I went to university to do English And I wanted to work in radio. That's what I really wanted to do. Still do. Love it. I'm sure you could. I sure I could, yeah. If I had the blooming time.

I know I really loved it. I really loved radio. And I think it's a great medium. And so I had my little radio show at Hill University. No one listened to it, the cleaner. And, you know, it was just me. But university radio is really, really vital. Yeah.

It's where most of the people in this industry. I mean, but I think I wasn't quite the zeit gas at the time because it was all terribly. You know, it was everybody, we were still there. And so I just sounded, I remember applying to a radio show up there in Hull, and they said, we don't need another Terry Christian, thank you very much. They didn't. Yeah, and I only wanted to sort of read the weather out or something.

And I don't think people were banging their door down, but, yeah, that was absolutely not wanted. And Hull's the strongest Saxon, even was stronger than mine. You know, it's here they're red. So I was like, oh, okay, fair enough. Anyway, somebody asked me to be in a play in the same year. It was my third year. and somebody had dropped out and I did the play

I don't have been interested in drama my degree was English and I was just really good at it and I've never said that about myself about anything you know I've always been slightly above average but I just found it terribly easy

and I thought oh I'm going to I'm going to audition for the next part and I got the main part in the universe which was no big competition let's be honest and it was a play call Les Dejeroz Lééééééééééééééééééééééééééééééééééééééééééééééééééé Reasons, Christopher Hampton, and I got the main part in it, Motoy. I was 21, I should have been 45 in it, so I could play now.

Well, I'm 50 now, but, you know, that kind of age. And my film tutor came to me, and he said to me, if, and he was called Neil Seignard, and he was a... Neil Sonior? Siniard. Oh, Signore. And he was a, it was quite a prominent critique, film critique at the time. And he said, if you could write your essays like your act, you know, you. You could get a double first.

You need to think about this, Sally. And I said, but actresses don't look like me. They're not from where I'm from. And this is not being a working class hero. It was true. I didn't know anyone at all in my circle of friends, anyone that was remotely anything to do with anything like that. So it seemed like I was getting a trip to Mars.

You know, it was crazy. I was like, what does that mean? But you find your way, don't you? So that took three years then, because you say it was 24. You did that at 21? Yeah, so what I did is I rang my friend, Sean, Sean Canning. He's one of the biggest choreographers for huge fashion shows now. And he did a bit of dancing at the time.

And he went, there's a guy who is a really good acting tutor called David Johnson. Now, David Johnson has taught the likes of Sarah Lancashire, Anna Friel's, my friend, Surin Jones, you know, Anthony Cotton, to name but a few. And he had a thing called the Oldham Theatre Workshop. and he was making a school for older people and it happened to be the older people. I was like 22. But it happened to be around the corner from my house. So I went and spoke to him and said,

look, I have no idea. I don't know what I'm doing. And he said, oh, and he was quite standoff fishing. He was quite hard, David. But, you know, he always had a twinkle in his eye. But he was very good. And so I literally was with him being tutored for two years. And I just paid, I had three jobs, you know,

just to pay for the tutorship, pay for him. my rent and stuff. And then it was such a ridiculous story because it's so different from the Rada group or the people who went to drama school and they get them to buy an agent. There was a local agent. It was Ricky Thompson's agent. And I knocked on his door. And I said, I want you to represent me and he went, who are you? And I said, I'm an actress.

And he said, what? Anyway, I mentioned David. He went, oh, no, I've heard of him. All right, then. What can you do? And he came to... This is fantastic. I'm not... I remember the dog's barking. and everything barking at me. I literally not on this, the confidence I had. I don't know where that's gone. Honestly, I just don't know.

I think I thought, because I was so shown up telling my family I was going to be an actress. If I wasn't an actress, then they'd never stop laughing at me. I don't think there was this burning ambition to be this big Hollywood star. I think it was that.

It was purely because your family go there. We told you. Told you. Well, they didn't. They just thought it was a bit weird and a bit what we were talking about. Get a proper job, you know. And I've never had a proper job since.

So then I got a, yeah, so then he took me on as an agent. And it took me, as a client, sorry, he took me a few goes, a few auditions. But he got me a few auditions. And then I got a number one tour out of an open audition. And it was at the Strand and there was hundreds of girls outside. And you're all about five foot, about eight stone with tiny little dark bobs or sort of swinging little short dark haircuts. And then there was me, massive doofus. like blonde and I was like oh this is I've been for the wrong thing yeah

anyway I got it and it was called Girls Night Outers it was a touring comedy Northern play and I got it and that was it and yeah I mean there's been there's been on and off patches but not many to be honest I'm extremely lucky it's so funny when people see an actor that they know and everybody knows you because you've been in some of the biggest shows and you've created some of the biggest shows and still going on, Madam Marwidge. And I've been around forever. No, no, no, I'm talking about the stuff that you've done

and as a presenter and as a, as somebody's very passionate about a lot of things, politics, people, you're very passionate about looking after everybody. That I love that that's how it all started. So it can't see. I do think a lot of actors think, if somebody wants to be an actor, I think, oh, well, I have to go to Radar, I have to go to Lambda. I have to do all of those things. No.

You don't. Not at all. And it's really funny. It's that eternal debate when you're on set with actors who have been to Rada and Lomda, which is amazing. They are great schools.

Oh my gosh. Amazing. But you say, you always say, oh, you know what? I'd have always loved to have gone to that kind of drama school. And they'd say to you,

why? So you think you should have gone and they go, there's absolutely a point. But that's always the way. It's the constant dichotomy and loads of people, you know, but it is easier.

I didn't make it easy for myself. No. The problem was, because I was working in class, I'd used on, My grant, we got a grant there at the time back in the day for university, so I didn't have any more educational grants. I can't just turn around and say, I want to be an actor now.

They went, yeah, right, whatever. And I didn't have any money to go, you know, even though it was good and I was going to pay that backing tax, you know, 10 million fold. They didn't know that. So I suppose my tax money or my education fund had been spent on my English degree, which has come in very useful. But that's common-handed because, you know, it's not like you haven't written. since and you have you know hello some of that you've won awards and you massive rating successes

and so many things that you've written you and saran you just mentioned i love that you say my friend saran i love that yeah she's doing all right as well as she never heard of her yeah never heard of her saran it's like style count yeah yeah never heard of her no we were just you know me and me and saran were mates we um met coronation street obviously she'd started a year before and there was three of us who were very close friends. Jennifer James who played Gina and Saranoe plays obviously Karen and me played Shelley at the time

and we're very very very close and there was loads of us there was Cy Gregson and Keith Duffy and Lee Bordman and Jenny had been married for well that long however that long is 20 or 20 years is it 20 odd years and I think it was about

we just I think the thing about me in Serrano is because we were we were just in all the time because she was sort of, you know, the Yeltsichana type of the, and I was behind the bar. So we were just in all the time. I think we sort of meant to be really that, you know, we still are now. But you wrote together in a hugely successful writing partnership.

And did that come from those? Did you have the ideas then? Well, actually, we didn't actually write that. We created Scott and Bailey. Oh, I thought you didn't write that? No, that was Sally Wainwright. But I created it with Saran. And what had happened, we were, she left and Jenny had left.

And I was a bit bored. And I met around the corner. She was a thing called Vincent with Ray Winston, which was all very good, but very like blokey and very, and she was running around in a little flowery dress. And she was like, oh, you know, and it was a big break for her. And, you know, she was breaking into that kind of, drama

and she was like yeah but it's like I don't really have anything to say and I said do you ever see a thing called Cagney and Lacey when you're a kid and she's five years

younger than me so it's really funny that five years when you're a kid it's sort of really it's huge it's a big five years it's nothing now

but it's huge yeah so I explained it to her she got a few we didn't have it was got a video for her and we didn't have like

you know I don't even think YouTube was going then and I got her a book on the feminist sort of, what was it called? A feminist principle of Cagney and Lacey because my mum used to sit and watch it with me and I just thought it was the most amazing show.

I remember Cagney and Lacey well. But it was so much more than it was. You know, it was basically two female protagonists and their lives and why everything was so much harder for them. And I said, why don't we make something like that? But, you know, 25 years on, set in Manchester with me and you, and, you know, we're obviously, our characters are completely right for the characters that are, you know, we're going to set. And then, and it took us about, I mean, we kept flogging that, blamish.

We've written other stuff before, it's never, there's never got made. But we haven't done fewer years, actually. We must do that. But I want more Scott and Bailey. That's out of my hands now. That's other people's owned by other people's. But it was, yeah, that was it, really. And I didn't do it because I was pregnant with my boys So I wasn't able to do it in the end When it finally commissioned after six years

I was pregnant with the boys Which was a much more of a joy But yeah But obviously now at the moment The thing that everybody The buzz is about is about Madame Blanc And many of my friends have been in it I don't need to name drop

But bizarrely my friend Harriet Who's been in it Our mutual friend Who's in EastEnders Yes Any excuse to talk about EastEnders And she loved everyone I know who went and has been on it. Loves it.

And the audience love it. And it's escalated Channel 5 to doing more drama. So you've been quite, it's thanks to you that all of this has happened for Channel 5. I mean, you've had massive ratings. Massive. That's a big thing to say. No, I am good. I'm saying it.

I work for Channel 5. It's very kind. I suppose. In a way, I think Ben Frow would always say that I was the first one to take a chance on the first drama, which was Cold Call. And that was the one that smashed through the two million. Gosh, that was massive. So that was the one that was, I think they tried a bit before, nothing really had smashed it. And then that was the one that.

I loved that. I loved Cold Call. It was really good to do. I think you still could see it, actually. And that was a really interesting concept because it was a new way of filming. It was very paired down. It was budgetary constrained, but it was also very freeing. So it wasn't, there wasn't like a million of execs around all the time.

You could essentially change lines with the writers approval on set. You know, it was that and I'm like that now. But you were buzzing about that. I remember interviewing you about that. You were on cloud 9,000, little on cloud time. I loved it. And I really loved it. And it felt like when I started doing Mount Pleasant with Sky,

and again, it was the first, it was the first big dream. they had their commission with Stuart Murphy. And I remember thinking I was at the beginning of something that was really exciting. And then Stella came along and then there was trollied and I think that was at the same time. And we did really well.

And then Sky, it just turned into, you know, go-to television. And it felt a bit like that at the time. Look how important do you are. No, I don't think that is. I don't think that's the case. I think I'm just a fair pair, a safe pair of hands, really. Yeah, but also, you're very strong. So we'll talk in a minute about our mutual, wonderful dear Savage, Paul O'Grady,

who very sadly is probably watching us now and swearing. Oh, my. Shut up, YouTube. You look at you too talking about me. But you know what you want and you stick to your guns. That's how I can see you and Savage getting on so well. I think he got the gush from me and he got the straight talking from you. It's funny, I was that kind of, I was that mate.

really and we worked together really well because there's a lot of stuff that it's funny I was cleaning my office out this morning because I'm obviously writing hopefully writing the fourth one and Madam Blown and my office was a mess because it always is and I thought this is ridiculous now

it's like the gaffer in the 70s and like everything's rubbish so I was clearing it out and I saw little notes and there was a little note from his book Eddie and And it was just really, I had to have a little sit down. And I thought, oh, bloody out.

Because I used to always FaceTime him in the office. Are you in your shed? With them up. You know, giving me dog them up. And yeah, so it was a bit, yeah, it was a bit funny one this morning, fully enough. And then I was coming to see you. I was like, oh, that's weird.

Actually, the locks up, let's go to Paul. Let's talk about him. Yeah. Because it's very funny because whenever I talk about him publicly, I'll always say, it's no security. He was one of my dearest friends. Yeah. But we can sit here and we don't need to say that to each other.

No. You know, he really was. He was very important in my life. And I knew him as savage because we met on the big breakfast when he was Lily. And he was the first person to take me to the Vauxhall Tavern. I'd never been. It's amazing. And he was still Lily.

And that was quite a thing. But, and then, it's in fact nearly a year ago since he died. It's March. I was looking at 25th. I was looking at me of dad. diary. And 28th, sorry. That funeral. Oh, because I lost my stepdad about three weeks before. And it was very close to. And my husband woke me up in the middle of the night. No, it was about four or five o'clock in the morning. And he has his radio one in the night. He's one of those blokes that slink through the radio, you know, with the noise, the white noise. And it must have penetrated. And he woke me up. And I hadn't got the nose. The text from Joan had not looked to my phone. That text.

And Joan is his wonderful friend, PA, but dear friend as well. His right-hand woman, Joan, was. And I couldn't, I remember sitting at the end of the bed. And my husband was just saying, I don't know what to say, Sal, I don't know what to say. And I was just, I can't even put it into words. I cannot put it into words. I didn't believe it. I was in, anyway, you must have gone through the same thing.

No, I just, I work up my husband. I just went, yeah. Paul O'Grady's dead and he just went Oh don't be stupid What is he, he thought because I was And I went Taking a Mickey

No, no no no He's gone He's dead and he went I did it so bluntly And he just went no And I went look And I showed him the text And he went

Are you okay? And I'm savage And I just But I just went numb And I didn't make any sense to me Because I've spoken to him And I had a note In my phone

A reminder to call him And weirdly the day that I was going to call him and it was just about something was the day that we went off and made the the special just a few days after he died. I mean, Vauxhall. And I got a reminder on my phone.

The Hall Savage and I was like, oh! And we all went off and did that special. Numb. Well, it was funny because I got... Obviously the calls came in to speak on television about him. And I was like, what are you talking about? But I remember when Bobby... died, Bobby Ball, who played my dad

for seven years. I was very, very close to Bobby as I was Paul. But Bobby was like my dad. You know, he was just so close. And I remember I didn't have the strength to do it. And I remember looking at the television and seeing these people that he couldn't stand.

And I remember thinking, right. So I said to my agent, I said, I will do one thing. And the reason I'm doing it is because I can't bear all these people coming out of the woodwork. you know, the cheeky girls and snobits. No, but also people putting up photos of themselves with him.

I can't. No, it makes me so... I just put up a photo of him and everybody knew. I don't need... I had a little one of... With these angel wings on when he came to see me in the Marlowe. And he said, go on, come on. And he went on and the house just went... Yeah.

He said, give me, get me some wings. And went on. And the house just went. There was no point going on after that. You know, he stole the show quite rightly. And that's why I did it. And I did one, and that was it. And I've not spoken about it.

since today. Yeah. Because I just find it all... Me too. I don't. I did that program. I wouldn't speak to anyone else if it wasn't you.

No, I won't. I won't. And people always say, oh, can you come and can you do an interview about Paul? No. No. Not ready yet.

But also he would be like, what you're doing? What you're doing? But we did that special. That was important. That was really important. And Julian was there was everybody there. Yeah, the right ones.

Yeah. And it was. And his funeral. which we won't go into detail but was the greatest funeral I have ever been to if there could be a greater I can't imagine a greater funeral

it was just there was you and there were the other people whose names were weren't mentioned and it just felt so intimate and so special and then there was a wonderful there was some couple of wonderful moments that Savage was so much a part of

he was a part of he was there some very funny things happened literally it was very funny it was very well it was something that I think he had thought a lot about let's put it that way I think there was a lot of

right of I think he would yeah I think it was his plan let's put it that way there were two particular things but we weren't sure what they were but they were two particular things I remember Al Carr who was there and he doesn't mind saying that

he was a very old friend of mine and Al Carr said you know when we we rang each other straight away you know and I said Al said I can't even imagine being asleep Paul being asleep

never mind dead I can't even imagine being asleep You know We used to go out for dinner And I was always there And for orders And we used to cry laughing

I mean I was exhausted after a night Out with them two Can you imagine? I mean it was ridiculous And Gosh, anyway Yeah He's still there somewhere

He's so much there Yeah If anyone could do a comeback It'd be him Oh don't That would terrify The Living Daylights Oh we'd love that there

Wouldn't it? It's me I'm back. Back. Oh my word. Full drag. Do you know what? There's one of those things though, then it happens when certain people pass that I wish they knew.

Oh, how much. I wish they knew the public outcry and the public, the love that was shown. People were devastated. Oh my gosh. I think I had more messages about him than I have about, I'm Terry Wogan. You know, another course. I did love him about Terry. But Paul was something.

thing, he was unique. He was unique. He was unique. I wish he knew how much everybody loved him. I think he was just so honest. I think that was his, well, he was unbelievably talented and unbelievably. Very honest. But he was so honest.

But with us as well. Oh yeah. He said it as it was. I remember there was a certain show I did and he just called me up and my mom died many years ago. And I'll tell you a lovely story which I will share about Paul. But he rang me up and go, what would your mom say? It was about something I was wearing I was like oh thanks Savage

But he did something very very sweet Which I have talked about But when my mum died He left a message for me Every day for two weeks On my answer phone He left me something to make me smile He left me messages

He left me jokes He left me Quotes all sorts of things Every day for two weeks And he kept saying Gab don't pick up Don't pick up And on the 14th day

He said right Your two weeks are up Now you can call me If you need me But he did it Every single day so I could get through the first two weeks after mum died. And that was just kind. He was kind.

He was a kind man. So lovely actually talking about him. So you, let's talk about Steve, who we did mention. He's a musician. He's a musician. Yes, he's a drummer. So Steve currently, him and his musical partner, Chris Hay, do all the music for modern blanche.

So it's a bit of a family bespoke affair He's my little show And he loves doing that But you would know him So he started drumming for the style council When he was 17 And then he drummed with Paul Weller Till he was

Gosh, I think till about 10 years ago actually 10 or 11 years ago Steve was so polite And are you unassuming Very gentle You wouldn't think he'd done two live aids and played every stadium in the world and he's like, he's just not like that.

His brother's not though, Alan White, you're drum for Oasis. They're very, they're just very normal people really in an abnormal situation. But it's really funny because a lot of drummers are like that. They're sort of the powerhouse of the band and they're the, you know, they're the, well, literally the beat, but they're also the, you know, they're the same ones. the ones who haven't sort of lost their lives in drug-filled frenzy.

The ones who are basically maths and music and it's a real, you know, it's a passion more than anything. And I think, and they don't get caught up with the stardom bit. Well, I know Steve never has. And he's never more mortified when people come up. Because when people come up to me in restaurants, they sort of depend on how much alcohol they've consumed. The a go out like it, they know me really, really well.

and sort of slow over-friendly, which is lovely, or they get me in a headlock, if it's sort of later on. Headlock, if it's later on in the evening, whereas Steve, they sort of treat him like some sort of demi-deity, you know, and sort of nearly bow. It's so weird, the different kinds of fame.

That's so funny. He was so taken about when we got together, so he was like 20 years ago now. Yeah, so taught me through that. Well, the real story is... There's a fake story. There's a fake story. I've peddled for years for the media,

but you can have the real one. So basically, and he was, I was in Coronation Street and I'd been there for, I think, two and a half years and I was really nailing it, I thought I was, and there was new producer coming in called Tony Wood, who's a mate now. You know everybody.

You do know everybody. I know this person, because he introduced me to Steve, but he was a new exact producer coming in. And on the cover of all the tabloids, he was called, I hate me for saying this, it was called Chopper Wood because everybody kept sort of getting sacked. So I was thinking, oh no, bloominack.

I remember looking at my little cottage thinking, well, that's going on it. You know, I thought I was doing really well, but everything changes in soaps all the time. Serial dramas, I should say now. Anyway, and I wasn't ready to go. I thought I was just nailing it. I was only two and a half years down the road.

I thought, I'm nailing this. Anyway, I got a call from him. And I was like, oh no, so I'll cut that story there. The night before Steve was on a tour bus, not with Weller, he was always in another band, Steve and it was always in like a drum-led band, a drum sort of funk led band when he wasn't playing with Weller. So he was always on the road kind of thing.

And it was called the players. It was fantastic. It was like it's acid jazz band. It was fantastic the players. I really loved them. Anyway, they were on the bus and they'd had a few, you know, a few tipples. And they were saying, who do you fancy off the telly? But not obvious.

And did he say you? Not obvious? Yeah. Said me. Who else did he say? He was going to kill me for this. He said me and Sophie Rainworth off the news. Do you remember the blonde girl?

Well, she's amazing. Yeah. He said, me and her. And that's who he said. Now, he'd forgotten. He'd said that. Completely forgotten. So that blonde woman behind the Bowerman Coronation Street

and that's Sophie Wehman. And he's got it. He woke up in the morning. And his best friend, Mattie, who was his manager, said, he's still his friend right now, said, I've got a surprise for you. Guess who's coming to the gig later?

Tony's asked her to call. Oh, that's just fantastic! Hang on a minute. Cut to me, I'm thinking I'm getting a sack, aren't I? So I get the call off, Chopper Wood, I'm thinking. And it was the most... I'll gather it was the most awkward phone call because he was sort of...

He was going, hi, it's Tony Wood here. He put his televoice on. Oh, did you go into... A shock, yeah. And I went, oh, hi, Tony. Yeah, I just wanted to sort of touch base. You know, I'm a new producer. And anyway, I've got a great friend

who's in town tonight. He's a drummer. is a great band and I just wondered if you wanted to bob down so we could meet he's a big fan of the show and he went

and I went what and he went I said are you not sacking me and he went oh god no and it was really I think I swore it was really embarrassing

and I went I'm so sorry and it was dead oh it was so awkward so then I got real I was like I can't believe somebody's rang me up

to meet in a nightclub I said that's a bit out of order anyway my best friend Claire Claire Bradley and this is how long and her son's 21 in February. This is how long we've been together. She'd had complications. He'd had complications when he was born.

And she just rang me up literally five minutes after and said, Sally, you can come in. He's all right. You can come in to meet him. And the maternity hospital, St Mary, which was opposite the Academy in Manchester. So I thought, well, I'm here now. So I may as well bobbing, you know. Oh, my word. I said, I would not have gone in. I was, because I was dead angry that. I don't dare. I should be met in offices. I was a bit of my own backside then. we should meet in offices

and I should be you know introduced to the new producer and all that and I just walked in and I met him that's when I met him yeah I'd never have met him before and that was it that was it yeah

oh my word it was bit on and off for six months because we were so busy he was on tour and I was in the Peter Barlow storyline so we're never available but it was really exciting

because I used to fly out and see him at gigs and stuff because well it was great he was a bit Corey fan so he was allowed on the bus and stuff oh you do and I know I just said it But you do know Peter Kate

Because you've worked for Peter, didn't you? Yeah, of course I did for years ago. I don't see him as much as I'd like to now because I'm in London and Pete's in Manchester. Is he all well? Yeah, as far as I know, he is. Good, yeah. Good.

And he does his residency in London as well. Is he still doing that? He does the old too, doesn't he? I mean, I've been... I can't get tickets. He can't give me free either. It would. Peter.

But you do know everybody. No matter who I, wherever I go. And I mean, I can be anywhere, the end of the East. I can not be anywhere and somebody will say, oh, you know, Sally Lizzie. How did that come about? I don't know. I don't know.

But you do know everybody. You keep them. You don't throw people away. No. I always have a massive cast list in my head of people. Do you? Always. Yeah, it's like, it's bigger than anything.

So, Madame Blanc, you're going to do more. Well, hopefully. It's not been a green lit yet, but it's doing really well. It's doing really well. So do you just, do you, when you're writing, when you come up with a character, do you think that's, okay, I want them for it. Yeah, definitely. I mean, does anybody ever say no? I can't imagine they ever say no.

Nobody said no yet, no. I mean, somebody, so people have not been able to do it, but no one's that, have he said, no, I can't, you know, I don't want to do it because it's rubbish. that you know, everybody said, oh God, I'd love to and then maybe it's not worked out time away. Who would you like that you haven't had yet? Well, it's cast. Well, I've got loads.

I mean, it depends on the part. Okay. So do actually, I've got... Can we do fantasy casting? Oh, I'd have everyone, one night, I'd have, you know, I've... Well, I've had really fantasy casting because... Like, for example, Sue Holdenus,

who everybody knows plays Judith in the show but was in Only Fools for many, many years as Marlene. and I did the vagina monologues with her in 2008 and I remember sat on the chair next to her just looking at her, she was in the middle and then sometimes she was on the end and we swapped round I just remember looking at her thinking you are the most amazing actress

and just staring at all with her so usually it's not about people I don't know it's usually people I've met that I feel right because the biggest thing to me Gabby because I'm 50 and I can't be bothered if I don't. You don't suffer fools but you never have

so if I don't like them I don't want them in Yeah, but... Oh, not, I don't like them. If I've met them and I just thought... They're negative people. Yeah. You just want positive people around you. I can't have that, no, kind of that nonsense.

Too old, I'm too off that nonsense. Oh, you see, you don't. But you're the same though, weren't you? No, I like positivity around me. Exactly, I like good people. Yeah, it's just, I'm too, I'm too off that. And it's not, I've got to say, it's not happened that many times in my life, to be fair.

But when it does happen, it can change a show. Yeah. And it's really important to get that balance around. It's usually how, however much I'd go, yeah, they'd be great in it. I'd think, oh no. Like, for example, I just got in this series, I've got Stephen Bailey, the amazing comedian.

And we met mutually through my business partner, Caroline Robert Cherry. And I just absolutely loved him. And I said, can you act? And he was like, I don't know, I've tried. And he was absolutely brilliant to the point where my director went, he's got to come back. He's amazing. I love working with him.

And I was like, so he's so. Sometimes you just give people a platform or a chance. Joe Lysett. Oh, Joe, God. I love him. I met her did meet you in one years ago. And I remember thinking, you are so clever. He's so clever.

He's so clever. He's a lovely guy. It was the thing after, what does it? The thing after Bake Off when they have that chat. Oh, no. The thing after The Apprentice when they have that chat. Yeah. And they asked me on that show and he was there. So it was many years ago when I went on right at the start of his career.

He's so bright. He's lovely. Everything he does is amazing. The first. season of this podcast he came on and people hadn't it wasn't quite that people got him yet

it was just waiting to happen wouldn't it? I could see it straight away I thought he's going to be massive. Just and he's so bright. It's a funny way he's like he's on it. Oh no I watch everything he does I think he's fantastic I think he's... You've got to get him in, but I can see him in Madame Blonde. God whether he do

I mean whether you say you know you he's amazing when you see these people and you think all the comedy's been done, all the drama's been done, all the singing's been done. And then all of a sudden people like Joe Lyset pop out. You know, and you just go, oh, it's not. Yeah. There's more genius. But also, it's about taking a chance. And I think television can be too safe these days. And I, you know, I bet that's a whole other conversation. Sally, just carry on doing what you do. Do you mean employing the same cast all the time? No, no, I know. I just mean it's all a bit safe. You know, I like, I like rebellious and naughty television. I think that's why I love. what Joe does as well. I mean, I come from naughty television. Oh, yeah, exactly.

You do really naughty television. I think that, and I'd mean naughty with a small end, not, not maybe not. Strange television. No, what have you got on you? Oh, you sound like savage. Oh my God. But long may you reign and you will.

So you've got other ideas. There's other stuff as well, surely. You'll never not have ideas. We have a company, which is me, Caroline and Martin, and it's called Saffron Jerry Productions. and we have lots of things on our slate, but it's quite female-led. I like diversity, but I also like women of a certain age.

So I think what happens is women get to a certain age, and then you just don't see them on the telly anymore, and you go, why am I not seeing them on the telly anymore? But no, people like you, Sarah Lancashire, Jamie Lee Curtis, I know what we're going, but suddenly out there, it's like, hallelujah. You're not invisible. No, because women want to.

to see us. This is the thing and once you're brave enough and bold enough to say that and say women want to see women who look like themselves and men. And men do, yeah. But, you know, that's who I'm writing for. And it's brilliant because when people come up about modern blanc, it's usually couples.

And that was like Mount Pleasant as well, weirdly, but it was couples and, you know, or we get, or people just really enjoy it. It's like a bit of I just wanted to make an hour of escapism really. I thought the world was so horrible during the pandemic and so

hard, it was sort of a fantasy that I created really that I wanted this sort of vision of loveliness and you wanted to go and sit in that pub and you... These keep doing it. You wanted to look at that antique and you wanted to spend your night with that mad couple from the chateau

and that's all I wanted. It sounds really simple but this recipe has to be right. But actually simple is the best. It's when you can describe something on the back of a match books. That's what I remember someone to say. That's when it really works. Sally, thank you. Is that it? That's it. Thank you.

Oh my God, we could have gone from us, couldn't we? Thank you. Love to see you, love.