That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Shaznay Lewis

Episode Date: June 18, 2024

Shaznay Lewis joins Gaby in the studio for a natter about her new album. She talks about the joy songwriting brings her, how she nearly fell out of love with the music industry and how she feels more open to new ideas than ever before. We hope you enjoy this upbeat, lively chat! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Shazne Lewis, you are glowing. Oh, that's very kind of, so are you. No, but no, it's not, this isn't about me, it's about you. You're very glowing. Thank you. You have the biggest smile on your face. You're happy. Yeah, yeah.

Always happy. That's so fantastic. So the album is out. We're going to talk about that. I love it, peaches is my favorite. I'm a loud of favourite. You're not, probably. You are.

I'm a lot of favorite. We're going to talk about pages in a minute. By someone, you came in. telling me about your kids. So your boy wants to be a criminologist? I don't know if he wants to be a criminologist, but he's definitely keen on doing that at university, that or anthropology.

He's been doing psychology, so I think he kind of, the interest from psychology has sort of led on to this. And yeah, I mean, I'm just happy that he wants to do stuff. Yeah. Yeah. That's fantastic. And your girl wants to be an actor?

She does. I know what that's like with my girls. Do you? Is it the same? Yeah, exactly the same. She's very much like that. She reminds me of me and my husband. She's very driven by passion.

And I remember very early on because she's a very, she was a fantastic swimmer. And she was on the, she's been on the school team and she's done meets and things like that. She used to do it for like county. And literally one day she just said, you know what, Mom? I don't want to swim anymore.

It's just not my passion. Wow. How old was she? She was, I mean, gosh, she was probably around 12, 11, 12 at the time. That's such a grown-up thing to say. Yeah. But she's very driven by those sorts of things. You know, so with acting, she's very artistic.

So, I mean, with acting and things like that, she seems very passionate about. So, you know, as much as, you know what it's like in the industries that we're in, and they're very hit and miss and, you know, not consistent. But she is passionate about it. And I think that that's, for me, actually, the biggest drive. If you can be passionate about something, I think that's half the job done. Well, you're passionate about football there? Because obviously she's got both of your genes, your sporty gene and your artistic gene.

I'm laughing because I did not play football. Didn't you play football? No, but this has been the rumor that just came so. So it's not true. It's not true. basically all it was was that whilst I was at school, because I went to school in Islington and Arsenal Ladies, I think they just started sort of coming up around that time because this was in the 80s. And they came to our school to sort of entice and interest girls into

wanting to play. They picked a few of us to play a few matches against some other schools. But now that's playing football. You played more football than I ever did. I had a couple of matches and decided from then on, actually, that I wasn't interested in kind of signing up to Arsenal or anything like that. And but then I did bend it like Beckham as an adult. And, yeah, but it's not really football. My son, who is a fantastic sports person, would definitely say, you know, Mom, you cannot play football.

Oh, no. But that's what a kid said about everything. You know, he would scoff at me touching a ball. I mean, we were doing actually funny enough. A couple of weekends ago, we were in the garden, all trying to, he was talking about curving it into the goal. And then I started talking about bending it like Beckham, because when we trained for that film, we did actually get taught.

There we go. Like I said, I'm not a footballer, though, but we did get, we did a lot of training for the film and we were taught how to bend the ball into the goal. So my husband, my son and I, we were all taking. turns in trying to bend the ball into it. And they were greater at it. And I mean, no, I wasn't able to do it.

I wasn't able to do it anymore. At the time when I did the film, obviously, because I was doing it back to back, I was able to do it. But yeah, I can't do it now. I love the fact that you can't, you could do that. At one point in time. If I kick a ball, my husband plays football still. He loves it just for fun and exercise.

Yeah. But if I kick a ball, he goes, what are you doing? Because I kick a ball, I see a ball and I kick it. I forget you have to do it with the side of your foot and I've never been able to curve a ball in. Sorry, in my eyes, that means you play football. There we go. So where did her swimming bug come from?

Were you both swimming? No, I'm not keen on, I can swim, but I'm not keen on swimming. But that's just a school thing, yeah. And your husband? So does he, so obviously, I mean, I know what your husband does and everything. But does he, is he, that sporty head? And also creative. Creative.

See, the kids, they can't help it. They watch you too. Yeah. All right, so let's go all the way back, if we can sort of rewind. All Saints were the coolest girls. They were the girls that we all wanted to be. Right. It really, I mean, the Spice Girls were sort of like a cartoon version of, you know,

they all had their names. everything, but also you were the girls that everybody wanted to be. That must have felt, you knew that, didn't you? I mean, I think it's quite, it just depends. It's like apples and oranges, because I mean, there are millions of kids as well that wanted to be, you know, like a spice girl. No, I know, yeah, yeah. But you were the cool girls.

Right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we were. Were you aware of it at the time? No, probably not. No. No. I know we wanted to be because I suppose at the time

we there were lots of comparisons as what like as bands kind of get and I think we just you know we wanted to be seen as a bit more serious a bit more cooler and you know all sorts of things like that I suppose so yeah I suppose we wanted to be but sometimes when you're in the glass bowl

kind of looking out you can't quite see what everybody grasps and what everybody's sort of taking from it all sometimes That's interesting saying taking because there was a lot, I think in the music industry, maybe more so then than now, there was a lot of people trying to take stuff. Right. I'm not talking about us as people who bought the music, who bought into the whole fashion thing, the whole look of all states. But I think the music industry was tougher then for women, wasn't it? Yeah.

There was a lot of taking, yeah. I feel really I'm pleased looking back actually that as a female that I was definitely a part of a group. I think we were definitely stronger in numbers for sure, especially back then as young women. So I felt like, yeah, we were probably protected just having each other in a lot of ways back then. But also what you did a sort of, you did something for women that was, I think a lot of, you. You gave us all confidence. Right. Which is, I know that's quite a heavy thing to turn around and say,

but I do think you did. I feel like we probably were quite confident actually back then, yeah. But the fact that you felt confident, but you put it out there for all of us to get something back from. Right, great. It was quite something. Brilliant. Also, the fashion, can we just talk about.

I mean, I know everybody does with you. You know, I was doing my deep dive yesterday and reading old interviews, And I thought, you must get so fed up with everybody talking about cargo pants. It's like every single interview. It's like, no. And there was someone's reading was, do you still wear them? I could imagine all of you. And Nick, I've known for years.

Right. Our babies on the same day. But for all of you, no, I don't. I'm not wearing. And if you do wear cargo pants, if you ever wear them now, do people go, oh, look. Yes, probably. No, I'm not, but I can imagine. I can imagine they would.

But it's funny because they've come back around, haven't they? They, the fashion is now exactly the same as it was. Then my daughter's, she looks, you know, she's wearing stuff that I wore. Have you still got them in your wardrobe? There were some things that I saved, because obviously you're always given lots of stuff back then. So there were some things that I held on to and I've given them to the kids. And they wear them like, you know, like as if they've just come out. Perfect.

Yeah. That's how it should be. Yeah. Okay, so let's go, let's, I mean, there was obviously a long time in between, and we're going to go backwards and forwards if that's okay. Sure. But I want to talk about pages because, you know, there's that thing about you suddenly, when you listen to music and you suddenly feel, this is quite a strange thing to say,

but I feel like listening to it that you've come home. Yeah. Does that make sense? It does make sense. That's exactly how I feel. I probably didn't even realize, oh, no, that I didn't realize, but I felt that whilst making pages, I felt the, especially when I wrote a song called Miracle, I felt like it was really important to just try and get back to the beginning and sort of find myself again in the simplicity of why I'm here in the first place and what this kind of, what I was chasing and what this was all about. And it's really simple, really. It's just for the love of. of writing because songs is nothing more

it's nothing less than that. Is it really as simple as that? It's as simple as that. And I think that that was probably what was lost for a long time because that's what happens. With art, that's what happens when people love painting or love writing, creating, whatever it is, how

you start these passions and what you get from them once you sort of bring them into the mainstream and everything becomes. becomes bigger, that innocence with it all and that connection can kind of get lost. Well, everybody's saying, I want this, I want this, do it like this, do it like that. Yeah.

So you didn't have that this time, though, did you? It was you? Yeah, it was. And it felt really good because I could have, I could have fallen out of love with it, really. Did you ever? Did I fall out of love with it? A little bit at times, yeah. A little bit of times, you know, I fell out of love with it

or just wasn't as excited about sitting down to write. And that's what I felt with this record. Like if every session I went, once I kind of, you know, got together with everybody that I was working with, I felt really excited getting on the phone to them or walking into a room. And that, I haven't had that for, gosh, years, like since the beginning. So like, and what was great was that, you know, these are people

that also work with many other artists. And I suppose sometimes, even though you're, you know, you're always passionate to sort of have somebody come in the room and be, oh my God, you know, really, it's like, guys, we're going to, yeah, I'm so excited. And they became really excited. And we didn't know what was at the end of it. It wasn't like I was walking in excited because I'd just been signed by this big label and, you know, like how you'd feel. in the very beginning of your career and you think, oh my God, I'm going to make this record and, you know, it wasn't like that.

But I felt excited. I couldn't tell you why. I was just excited about what the possibilities were going to be that day and what we would come up with. And everybody else got excited as well. We didn't know what was going to be at the end of it. Yeah, we didn't know whether it was going to, I didn't know I was going to get to a point where I'd even release it

and it would be a thing and people would hear it. But we were excited about what we were. doing in the room. And actually to the point when it was over, I remember when I did one of my last listening sessions with Aunt Whiting and Emily Phillips

and we hadn't worked together before, but on this record we did peaches. We did Kiss of Life and Miracle and I had a great time working with those guys and on our last day of sort of tweaking and listening and I

walked out of their door, leaving their front door and it was like, oh, well, I guess that's it. And we're like, oh, yeah, well, you know, no more sort of planning. And then Emily said, well, let's try and work something out so we can get together again. I'm right. I was like, yeah, of course. So, yeah. You're going to do more?

Of course, definitely. I love that. That's why you're glowing. It's really just when you talked about it now, your face, your eyes, I mean, they're glistening when you talk about it. Wow. So, and that excitement, and I think, I do think that sometimes it can go, people can get jaded by the whole industry, whatever the industry that they're in. But you can. And it's, like I said, it's like you've come home.

It's like, okay, this makes sense now. Yeah. Yeah. Why do you think it went? I don't know. I don't know. It's fine. Sometimes you can overanalyze and think, oh, it might be this, it might be that.

And you just go, that's so honest of you. Yeah. So you don't know. Because people take too much time trying to work it out. I feel like you're living in the moment. Yeah. Yeah. Very present.

God, yeah. Even at home. You've been quite like that though, haven't you? Pardon? You've always been quite like that. Yeah, I have always been very present. But I feel probably more so present because I feel a lot of gratitude at the moment, actually. Does that sound a bit much?

No. Yeah, I do. I do. I do. I feel a lot of, I feel a lot of gratitude. Gratitude. Life is simple, especially amongst all the chaos. Yeah.

There's a lot of that around. Yeah. And it's frightening. Yeah. So I feel gratitude. So do you feel that as somebody who loves listening to music and somebody who plays music if I'm doing radio and who I've had bands on TV shows and everything,

I think that music is really vital. Yeah. I think it is so. important and I get the feeling that that might be a part of it with you, you're the person that puts the importance into why I feel that. Does that make sense? A bit. I'm not quite sure what I meant. I think I know what I meant. I think I know what I mean. But it is for you, I feel like music's now important again. Yeah, it is. It is It's definitely a part of my makeup, you know, how I express or how I feel.

Like some people can, some people may go to therapy and, you know, things like that. But actually writing is pretty much a part of my makeup and what makes me tick. You know, I hear sounds. So I was laughing about this. What was it? Yesterday with my son, he said something to me and the climate, well, mum, you're a, can be a bit. Itsy. I said, it's not that. It's half the time I mean, you know, I've always got some whistling or something going on in my head, tunes or. I love that. Yeah, I do too. I really love it. I really, really do.

So if somebody is tapping, so if I start doing that. Oh, yeah. I'll make something out of that. Oh, let's do it now. Okay, let's write a song. I've never done this. Okay, keep going. Okay. Should I give you a word? Oh, no. No. Okay. Oh, it could be anything you can be.

I don't want to want to know. I can soul for a little dying of me. I don't want to want to want. Do you know what I mean? Oh, my word. I love it. Ed, who works on this podcast, is smiling, beamed because he also is a musician. And he suddenly, he was just, look at him.

He's still nodding. That was incredible. So, yeah, not quick enough at worst. Yeah, just, yeah. So, like, I'm always thinking of stuff. Oh, I love that. Yeah. Were you like that as a child?

Yeah. Yeah. But now I embrace it more, probably. That's what it is. I think I embrace it a lot more now. So when you started out in the industry, you must have already known that you had all of that in you. Yeah.

Oh, that's just, so it wasn't just a dream. You just went, no, I can do this. Yeah, yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. That was, I was like tunnel vision. This is what's going on. How old were you when you realised that you had tunnel vision?

Gosh. 13. Okay. Yeah. And what was the first thing you wrote? Oh, gosh. Yeah, I do. I love song as if I knew what love was about at 13.

Do you still have it? Just my luck. Yeah. Oh, it'll be somewhere. I mean, yeah, it would be somewhere there. Did you ever release it? No. Oh, you should go back and find it.

I love it with things like that happen. Yeah. So 13, you just thought that's it. I want to write music? Yeah. Then what do? You didn't want to do football? No.

No. Not at all. So with the kids, there's no music in them. They're very musical, actually, especially my daughter. She's, you know, she's gosh. She's like, she reminds me of me. She just knows with notes, with everything. And she loves writing.

She's really, really creative. My son, he has a lovely voice as well, but he doesn't want to sing. His main thing, to be honest, right now, he just wants to go to uni. He just wants to... How do you feel about to do that? I mean, I'm going to really miss him.

Oh, my gosh. When my first baby went off to university, I was a mess for five weeks. I don't mind of missing it. And now she's back. She can't afford rent in London. I'm so pleased that she can't afford it. Long may she've been.

badly paid. Long may she be badly paid. Oh, yeah. It's tough when they go off. Yeah, I can feel that coming. And I feel bad for my daughter as well, just, you know, not having a brother around. So, yeah. It's a whole new way at home.

Yeah. So for you, no, you're going to be doing gigs throughout the year as well. Is it about going out there and performing or is it just about the writing? I get something from both, to be honest. I love being in the studio. I love writing. And also performing.

Studio is the norm because I've always been in the studio by myself so that nothing feels different there. The performing has been different because obviously I'm used to performing, I've been used to performing in a band. But it's also lovely to have that new experience because, you know, the last what, the last eight years, we've been,

we've done a few, good few tours and we've done loads of festivals, which has been great, and we did two new albums. You've been very busy. Yeah, I've been really busy and singing old and new songs. And that's always going to be the thing. If I'm doing any shows, I'm always going to have to do some old songs. And becomes, you know, I think what's nice about that is that I'm also able to do some new. I think if it was just old songs, that would, how would I feel about that?

As much as I know people are enjoying those old songs, I wouldn't want to be, especially as a creative, I wouldn't want to be only ever known for that because I'm always, I'm actually always looking forward. So I'm always working, always writing. So having the opportunity to always do both old songs and new songs, I think is really important. It's a bit like, you know, I don't know, I can't think. But just, you know, if you're only ever associated with something that you just in the past. In the past, yeah, yeah. So as much as you said you're present.

Yeah. It's not all about the past. No. So I quite like, so, you know, doing shows and stuff on my own, it's really nice to be able to do. Old songs and you. How wonderful. I loved listening to you when you did in the piano room with Vern. Yeah.

That you sounded fantastic. I loved it. And I mean, that was the first thing that I'd ever done. And on this, when I wrote pages, one of the things I wanted running through it was strings. And so to have been able to have the opportunity for the first thing that I did was with strings with the orchestra. Honestly, I couldn't believe it.

I mean, I wouldn't even have imagined something like that ever happening. So, yeah. You have to do it again. Oh, it was incredible. I know you're doing all the various things, but I think, you know, somewhere you, in the Albert Hall with a full orchestra. That would be beautiful. And a choir.

That would be gorgeous. I'll just organise that. Yeah, please. All right. I'll see if I, hello, Mr. Albert Hall. Oh, thank you. It's been lovely talking to you. You too, so much.

Thank you. Thank you for having me. And keep spreading my joy. Thank you.