That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Steve Backshall

Episode Date: October 20, 2026

Gaby welcomes naturalist, explorer and writer - Steve Backshall - to the studio. They chat about his passion for wildlife, animals and nature - and his new Deadly Live tour! Steve believes we all have an inherent fascination in nature - and gets so much joy from sharing his love of nature with audiences, especially with young people. From his early career in TV, to bestselling books and shows - Steve is as passionate and joyful as ever - and his enthusiasm is infectious! Tickets for the live show are available now: DEADLYLIVETOUR.COM

Steve Baxhaw, truly one of the kindest people. You've just told me something before we started recording. Are you allowed to say it out loud? I think so, yeah. Let's do it. Say it. My very first job when I was about 11 or 12 years of age was being a volunteer for the RSPCA, and now 40 years later, I am about to become their president. Which is, I think, the proudest moment of my life. That's incredible.

Was it a phone call? hey Steve Baxhill, wildlife deadly 60 man who can do anything, would you like to be president? Well, I've been there vice president for a while now, and it was something that I really, really wanted to do, and it's taken a couple of years of kind of me just poking people and going,

oi, oi, well... Oh, how wonderful. When do I get to take the big job? And, yeah, it's now. So your love of animals did start, then, when you were tiny? It really genuinely did. And I think one of the most... amazing things is that I'm a dad of young kids now and I see that same natural connection to animals

that I had when I was a kid. I can see the utter joy it gives them, the unbridled joy that they can't, they can't hide. And I had that same thing and it's given me so much through my life. And I just, there are times where it's very difficult not to be really preachy because there are so many things that I have seen and done that I know make me feel good. and could do the same thing for other people. You just want to grab people and go, look, it's so obvious. And animals is one of those things. But why do you think some people it's not obvious for?

That's quite interesting that you want to grab people. I get it because I'm passionate about animals and our planet and all the same things you are, but you've gone out there and you've done it. How come some people aren't like that? Do you know, I heard Sir David, doesn't need to use the second name, Sir David interviewed about 20 or 30 years ago, and someone asked about where he got his love for nature from and Sir David simply responded with,

when did you lose yours? I, like Sir David, kind of believe that it's something that is inherent in all of us. And before I did this for a living, one of the other little jobs that I did was animal introductions. So I had a whole bunch of animals that I kept at home and I would take them around to kids' parties and to schools and to scout groups.

And one of the most amazing things was seeing the difference in the reactions from the young kids to the slightly older kids. If you were to go to a group of three-year-olds, four-year-olds, five-year-olds, and take a snake out of a box, every single one of them would hold that snake. If you took a spider out, big hairy tarantula, every single one, without exception, would be just purely fascinated. If you came back to the six, seven, eight-year-olds,

they pick up on the signals of everyone else around them, and particularly from the adults. So if they had an adult in the group who was like, ugh, great big hairy spider, then the kids would go, oh my gosh, that's something I should be frightened about. They pick up on that, and they would have the same fear. So I think, and I have no good science to back this up, that there is in all of us an inherent fascination in nature. And it kind of makes sense that there would be.

You know, the vast majority of our evolutionary history has been spent outdoors surrounded by animals, animals that could be our potential food source. They could be threatening to us or they could be our companions. Wanting to know about nature has kept us alive, has helped us thrive, and I think it's there in the back of our brains. it's just whether we nurture it or we let it fade away. When we're all very little, the wolf is the baddie. The fox is the baddie.

Isn't that the craziest thing? Yeah. I mean, this morning on the way here, and I put it on my socials, before I knew I was coming to see you, but I stopped and I talked to a fox for five minutes. We actually had a conversation, and I love animals, as you know. But I just stood there, and people walking past laughing, but nobody was scared of the fox, and they just went,

what are you doing? I said, I'm talking to the fox. He stayed, and then I said, look, I've got to go. I'm off to see Steve. And the fox then left. And then I spoke to a squirrel for five minutes. This is honestly true. And seeing that there were kids that were walking past, and there were a few moms going, oh, no, don't talk, no, the fox, it's really dirty fox. But the kids just wanted to stand and look at them. Yeah. It was that simple. And your day will be just a little bit more joyous from having had that encounter. The fox is a really interesting one because in cities

there is a completely different relationship between the fox and people that there is in the countryside. For me to be able, I would say that all of the closest encounters I've had with foxes and I've lived my entire life in the countryside have been in cities

because foxes here have far less fear they are far more bold, they're far more likely to be out at times that we might and if there's food around then they have no problem getting close to you. There's also obviously the sense that they're dirty and ugly

and they bring disease and they're noisy in your back garden and all that kind of stuff, which I totally get. They are very noisy, aren't they? Of course they are. In the countryside, growing up in the countryside, every time I saw a fox, it was a moment of excitement. Yes. And I knew where all the foxes' earths were,

where they would come out very, very occasionally. We spent our lives trying to stop them killing all our chickens. But to see one, to see this element of mystery in the countryside, was always a beautiful thing. And it's so strange that we develop this really weird dual relationship between the urban fox and the rural fox and how we see them. But all animals as well, something that I'm very openly passionate about is very anti-trophy hunting, very, very anti-caged animals that shouldn't be,

and circus, oh, makes me really upset. And animal tourism and all of those things. You know, oh, look, there's an elephant, I'm going to ride it, and do photographs with it. But what you have done through, I mean, personally, but also for all of us over the years watching you with our kids and the kids watching you and people growing up with you

and Clara here who was nodding and saying, yes, I've watched him all my life, that you have brought that excitement without being patronising, without being preachy, you've just brought that, actually, that love, that love to us all. And that's where TV can do some more. real magic. And do you know, it's where I think kids television is so, so important. It's so

important. When I started doing kids telly, I'd already had five years working for the National Geographic. You know, I was a broadcaster already. And then I'd started doing like the expeditions for the BBC and, you know, was set on this course to doing big picture, natural history stuff. And when I came up with the idea that became deadly 60, the reaction from a lot of my colleagues was, what are you doing? Oh, did they? Was it really like that? Why would you want to take a massive downgrade step

to working on kids' television? I mean, the head of the Natural History Unit at the time literally told me I was out of my mind to be thinking about working with kids. No. I'm passionate about kids telling me. I can't believe somebody said that. Well, neither could I.

And over the years, what's become more and more apparent is that it is far and away the most important kind of media because for the only time you are talking to a group of people who haven't decided what their thing in life, life is going to be. They haven't decided what tribe they're going to be a part of. They haven't decided what thing is going to be their enthusiasm and they will change their mind. Trying to get

someone of my age to take on a new passion, to take on something that is going to be their obsession is near enough impossible. But you speak to a six-year-old and you can capture them in a way that will change their life. But you do it with adults as well. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but you do. You change people's opinions. You do. Everybody's. Well, that's really nice to hear. That's really nice to hear. But kids isn't, it's wonderful to get them. It is. And you know, one of the coolest things is, as a

parent who is surrounded by all the terrifying messaging that we have about young people today and about all the things that are seeking to poison their minds and capture them with algorithms and all this other scary stuff, I get to see the other side of the coin. I get to see youngsters who are infused by natural history

or adventure or the outdoors or nature or animals or wildlife, whatever. And they're amazing to be around. A young person who knows everything about dinosaurs will blow most adults' minds and I can talk to a room of 5,000 of them. I can stand on stage and put up an obscure species of dinosaur

and say, what is it? And you can see all the adults in the room going, oh, come on, backshore, as if anyone's going to know that and 5,000 young voices will all chant back. It's an amalgasaurus. And you see all these adults' faces like, what?

Where did that come from? So I was going to ask you, because you're doing your live tour again, and sell out last time, and I'm so delighted you're doing it again. Who's the audience? So it is, it's mixed. Well, it's very, very mixed. We've had everything from two-year-olds through to professors of marine biology, which is wicked.

And I mean, I think that one of the best things about what I'm talking about is that you can talk at a surprising level to young kids because they will take from it the bits that interest them. some of it will go over their heads that's not a problem they'll come back to it later kids aren't alienated by hearing stuff

that they don't understand or they don't know whereas adults can start to switch off if they feel like they're being talked to in a way that is beyond their comprehension if all they take from this is a bunch of beautiful imagery of animals

and a bunch of poo gags that's fine that's absolutely fine we all love a poo gag we all love a poo gag let's not you know beat around the bush but there are an awful lot of them

who will take home deeper message about how we come to be here, what evolution is about, what the common ancestry of animals that we have today is, how everything fits into the neat picture from the genesis of life on earth through to modern times. And that's really, really exciting. I hear a surprising amount from five or six-year-olds who are recounting something that they've picked up from that show and you think, how can you even process that? And that's one of the coolest things about doing things like this. Plus, you know, also, I mean, it took me a year to write this show, and a lot of it is picking up on that thing that Pixar and people do so well,

which is making sure that there's stuff in there that works for the grown-ups. The kids, you know, they're not going to get it, but that doesn't matter because, you know, I want to make sure that nobody is like I have been so often sat in the back of a theatre show for kids going, oh my gosh, this is hell on earth. I just want to be anywhere else other than here. Totally good, and it's wonderful. But that's what I think about your TV shows, whether it's the kids tell you, whether it's the television for everybody.

I don't think your show should be called Kids Tele because I think it is for everybody. I remember watching them with my two. And we all learned stuff. And there I am thinking, I know about that. Oh, look, I didn't know that. And I love that. I love learning.

I think everybody does. And I think as adults, we sometimes can close off to that. But we want to be taught. We want to be taught by people like you. And you also, while you're teaching us and helping us, you're learning. Let's go to sharks. I mentioned sharks already.

Wow. You changed people's opinion on sharks. I mean, that's quite a massive headline. It's definitely not something I've done alone. I've been lucky enough to work with some of the finest charities, people who genuinely own this and give every single day of their lives to repositioning people's perception of sharks.

After Jaws, the film. Yeah, after Jaws. I mean, there's probably about five or six creature features. this year alone that are, you know, Jaws for Netflix, 26. It is a persistent theme, and I understand why. But I also think that if the media has been one of the most powerful forces in portraying the shark as being this demonic presence that is out to get you the second during the water, well, we also have responsibility to make sure that we tell the truth too,

because Jaws' awesome film, but it wasn't a documentary. Yes. And there is no such thing as a shark that will. deliberately target and hunt down a human being out of malice. That is absolutely not true. And I think that, you know, it's something that I'm seeing an awful lot of now, particularly on social media, is way, way more stuff that is just celebrating the beauty of sharks and nothing else.

And I think that's hugely important, because hundreds of millions of people are going to see that, and they're going to see an animal that is not something that is malevolent and out to get them, but it's just beautiful. And it's been around since before we had trees and flowering plants, on our planet and has just as much right to exist as the dolphins and whales do. Let's, if we may talk about you, obviously we're going to come back to animals, but you as

well, I mean, you don't sit around really with your feet up, you and Helen, do you? No. You're quite fit. You get out there. I mean, was that another part of it? I mean, we've seen all the things. We're going to talk about the planet as well in a moment, but I want to talk about you. You're not somebody who sits still.

you like to keep fit? Let's just put it as bluntly as that. You do some extraordinary things. I would have said that I was someone who liked to keep fit until I met my wife. And all of a sudden I realized, I mean, I've said this lots of times, but I kind of had always figured, do you know, I could have been an Olympian. You know, if I found the right sport at the right time in my life, you know, I'm someone who's really fit. Did you ever say that out loud? Probably. Probably in my early years. You know, I would have thought as someone who is physically fit and quite physically capable, that the only thing between me and an Olympic gold was I didn't find my sport at the right time. And then I met Helen and I realized that there is something unique about elite athletes.

There is something that is just beyond anything that I have personally. And her ability to withstand, to enjoy pain, to put herself through training. Enjoy? Oh yeah, oh yeah, absolutely. Wow. To 100%. And I would have to say that I have, I mean, obviously I'm Helen's biggest fan, the year that, the pandemic year where she just had the twins, where she was retired from rowing and she saw that Tokyo was going to be bounced back by a year and decided at home without a coach, without a dietitian, without any of those things that athletes have, that she was going to take herself to the Olympics, and doing it with three kids under two years of age, two newborn twins. just set up a rain machine in the front room

and got herself to Olympic level is the most inspiring thing I've ever seen. It was just phenomenal. Obviously there's physical involved, I know that. But is there, what is it in her brain? How does it work? How does that brain click into that? So there's an interesting thing in which,

because she had a very unique process to getting into being an athlete. She hadn't rode three years before London 2012. She was picked up by a talent ID program with someone super fit whose skills could be repurposed to a different sport. And in the early sessions of training, she didn't quite meet the physical requirements.

She wasn't tall enough. But they wrote on her form a big M and nobody really explained to her why that was. And then a couple of years later, she met the coach who had assessed her and said, you put a big M on my form. What was that about? and he said,

it's a bit awkward. He said, well, no, go on, tell me. He said, the M was for mongrel. Because you have no pedigree whatsoever. You are that scatty dog with no pedigree, no background, but if you were backed in a corner, you would fight until the death. And he said, I've never met anyone else like you

for that degree of just psychological dominance, and that is what Helen is. But the two of you together, then, that's really formidable because you're like that. You're not going to give up. No, I'm very different to Helen. Very very different to Helen. But I don't maybe not as, well, you physically as well, you've done extraordinary things.

But with your care and your passion and your love for the planet and the animals and your family, I feel that you also have that drive. Yeah, I think I have it in a different way. I'm someone who always wanted to do everything, who wanted to leave no stone. turn to experience everything in life and to get as much joy out of our few years on this planet as I possibly could. And once I became a dad, I transferred that to wanting my kids to have that same joy out of every single day of life that they have. And I think it is different. And I definitely saw, you know, in the years after being an athlete, as Helen sought to find out who she was

outside of that lens was particularly interesting. And it's, you know, it's a whole area of psychology about which I knew so little and which I've learned so much from, you know, studying for one of the better word my wife. Okay, let's talk. Actually, you mentioned, as this is, reasons to be joyful, and you mentioned my favourite word joy. What brings you real joy? Apart from family and family, that goes without.

saying. So we can put that to one side. But what brings you? There are so, so many things, and I'm very lucky in that all the things that bring me joy I've managed to make a career out of, you know, going on expeditions where we've set foot in places that you can say with absolute certainty, no other human being has ever been in before. What's that like? It's the most remarkable thing. The uncertainty, the unpredictability of opening up your tent door in the morning with no idea of what is going to happen in the day ahead of you. To just take one example, we did an expedition in Borneo where we went searching for caves that hadn't been explored in modern times and within those caves were handprints and etchings

and sketches from 55,000 years ago. And after trekking through these jungles for over a week, eaten alive by leeches. My camera operator had a horrific gash in his leg and basically couldn't walk. We clambered up this mountainside and went into a cave system and got inside and found all of these paintings that nobody had seen in 50,000 years

and walked around getting this sense of how, since then everything's changed, right? Everything in our modern world is different from back then, but you got a sense of that some things hadn't changed at all that those people back then still wanted a roof over their heads,

they wanted clean air, they wanted a full tummy, they wanted protection for their families. There was this just incredible melancholic moment where we found these handprints from a small child that had been placed onto the ceiling. And the Indonesian guy I was with told me that they were from a child who would have died and the parents had dipped their palms into paint

and placed their hands onto the wall in memory of their child. And as it would happen, my kids were only like two years old, and we had just, Helen and I, before I gone away on the expedition, done that thing of getting their handprints put onto plates and cups as a memory of the kids that they were. And we were seeing this happened from, you know, people living 50,000 years ago who had the same impulse as I had. Isn't that incredible?

And, you know, you get up to the place in the cave that had the most concentration of artwork was the place that had the best view and the best view for me as a modern human. It was the exact same place that my ancestors, tens of thousands of years ago, had thought was beautiful. There was a wall, this almost blank wall inside the cave, and it had glorious, glorious paintings on it. And we checked it out, and it was a line. so that when the full moon came up and was at its brightest, it would be shining in as a beam onto this wall

and illuminating these paintings like a cinema screen. And you just kind of think, everything's changed but nothing's changed. Yes. And it was a really, really emotional and absolutely joyous moment. I can feel the emotion coming from you. It made me very emotional just listening to what you have to say.

But when you put your hands on there, There's a strange thing to us, but our planet has, it has a vibration, doesn't it? The vibrations in there must have been extraordinary. It's so difficult because, you know, I'm not a religious person and I get a little bit kind of, it makes me feel weird talking about stuff that is so evidently metaphysical and spiritual. But I've experienced so much of that in my life. And I don't know how to explain it or put it into what. words, but there are landscapes that zing with an energy that is not corporal, it's not something

tangible, it's not something that you can even really put into words. And that was definitely one of those places. Another place was this remarkable landscape in Venezuela. Sadly, you know, Venezuela has been in the news for all the wrong reasons over the last few years, but to the south of Venezuela, as it borders Guyana and Brazil, is this unbelievable landscape. with these ancient sandstone massifs called Tapuys, which if you look at the rock, it has ripples in it from the beaches, the sandy beaches over a billion years ago, and you don't find any fossils in it

because they were formed before there was life on our planet. And yet you are looking at ripples in the rock that are exactly the same as I would see on a Cornish beach after the tide's gone out now today. And that landscape, you walk around it and it puts the hackles up on the back of your neck. There is something there, some deep, deep history and energy

that I can't quantify. And I don't know how to explain it. I don't know if I want to explain it. No, don't. The word energy is just perfect, which is something that you give out so much of. And let's talk about energy as far as our planet goes, because we, you know,

it astonishing, me that people say, oh, just enjoy it, it's all fine, there's nothing going on. How do you, with somebody who's so passionate about the planet and the animals on it, and humans as well, most humans, how, what do you say to those people? I mean, we, I mean, I know David says it, and other, so David says it, but, and Chris Packham says it, but we can make a difference. We absolutely, we know we can. I'd love to. to hear what you feel about it. So this is a learning process.

If you'd asked my opinion on us, five years ago, ten years ago, 20 years ago, it would have been different each time. I made my first program on anthropogenic climate change in the year 2000. I made my first series on it in 2005. And back then, we were already saying, I mean, the program I made in 2000 was like,

you know, the data's in, the scientists are absolutely 100. percent sure that this is happening and this is how we deal with it. And, you know, it's time for us to stop all the talking and get stuck in and get started. That's 26 years ago. And the, the fury and the frustration that I feel today to hear the same arguments being used and being used by people who know, who absolutely know, it is, you know, a multi-billion dollar industry to obfuscate and confuse and muddy the waters to make sure that there's enough people out there who don't even want to believe it's happening that the process of change is so glacially slow. And I could get very

ranty and very angry, but I still mostly work with kids. And kids are an audience that need to be treated in a particular way. you can talk to kids about every single subject you can be far far harsher and harder than you would think you can involve much more information and much more depth of information than you would think but you cannot be bleak you cannot do...

But there is hope, there is hope isn't there? And you have to find it because a young person who is who believes that they have the tools of change who believes that there is something that they can do can become an unstoppable force and can become... You know, I'm so lucky to have worked with...

You know, we've had an awful lot of focus on Greta Toonberg, but there are tens of thousands of Greta's in this country alone. And you get to spend time with any one of them and their eloquence, their ambition is extraordinary. And they believe they can change the world. I have to believe they're right. The trick is making sure that every message I give has an element of empowerment at the end

that always has some sense of positivity, always has some sense of we can do this. Do you believe we really can? So we have precedent. There are things in the past that we have done that have made a massive, massive difference and have shown that we as a species have the power to act.

There have been crushing disappointments in recent years. a lot of them coming from across the pond and ways that we have taken so many big backward steps that it can be a tough life working in conservation you know you can work really really hard at achieving something that feels big to you and then something enormous will kick you up the backside

and set you all back a decade but we have to believe that it's possible because you know the other side are very, very good at coming together and very, very good at working. I'm very, noisy. And very, very noisy. And we can be,

we're very bad at kind of shooting ourselves in the foot quite often. And we're not always good at coming together and knowing who our friends are. And, you know, I find there's enormous frustrations with so many things within, can call it a movement. I'm not even sure that you can because we're so disparate.

But meet one of those young climate activists. Meet one of those youngsters who has decided that deforestation is going to be their cause for life and you'll think, yeah, that person can change the world. And I have the opportunity to speak to those youngsters before they get to that stage. Fantastic.

And let them think, yeah, maybe that's going to be my thing. So for everybody who's listening to this, If, you know, not just one thing. I think, I remember talking to somebody recently and they said, oh, we sort out our plastics and we sort out our paper and that's recycling, but it's not really going to make a difference. And I said, yes, it is.

It really is. You have to do it. And then they said, yeah, and we've stopped buying cucumbers wrapped in plastic. I went, that's fantastic. But it's so small. I went, no, because if everybody did that, there's a wonderful ripple effect,

there's their knock-on effect. And so anything that anybody can do, even if it's, they think, they perceive it as small, is quite big, isn't it? Absolutely, absolutely. Small changes made on a massive scale are what we need. And be loud about it.

Yeah, and be loud about it. And don't let people get away with the nonsense. You know, don't let people say things that are clearly untrue about our world and about climate. Just firmly but politely, put them in their place, let them know what the facts are. And I think recognize that we need to all be working together. Everybody who is good and who is kind and who thinks that. our planet is important, just, you know,

look at the other people that do that as well as your friends and that we all should be working together. Can we talk about it? I really am very passionate about it. I've been very outspoken about it, but I'm very anti-trophy hunting.

Can you explain to me what's going on in their heads? The heads are the people that go trophy hunting. Oh, look, there's Cecil the lion. I know, I'm going to kill him and I'm going to hold the head up with that woman with the giraffe and she says, look, what I've killed. I'm very lucky to have been brought up part of my life every year in Africa

because that's when my dad was born and I'm very lucky to have seen animals in the wild I do not understand where somebody goes with a gum and shoots them in the head there's an awful lot of things that people do that I... I understand some animals that they're getting out of control and I know that there's certain things that have to be done. It's got nothing to do with that. But it hasn't.

That side of things can be used as a justification post-the-fact. it's about power pure and simple it's about you know having your having something that is incredibly dramatic and powerful and has a historical power

that everybody understands instantly having that as your trophy it's horrible gives you dominance over something I'm talking as a six year old that's not nice no no it's not it's but you know there's a lot about

what people do that isn't nice but there is there's no it's not an accident that it's the biggest trophy male lion that is the one that is most prized that you know there are places in Africa where you can go and shoot a tiger you know they're brought in and bred in Africa so people can go and shoot them in a cage it's bonkers it's absolutely bonkers and yeah I mean I think that you know maybe that's what we we need to be saying we need to say listen I see you I see why you you're doing this, I understand why you're doing this, there is something missing in you that

you need to prove yourself to the world like this. There are so many more beneficial things you could do with the money that it's cost you to go and shoot that line. You could properly achieve something that could make you feel that thing that you are lacking that you need. And if needs to be, I'll show you what those things are because there is nothing that will give that to you better than altruism will. Go and do something for someone. else, go and do something for animals, that will make you feel good. That will make you feel a lot better. That will return that part of you that's missing that you feel you need to fill with the

trophy of the lion. Okay, so for people who haven't been lucky, as you and I and you much, many more times, but what is it like seeing a wild animal in the wild living as they're supposed to, oh, suddenly made me really emotional, living as they're supposed to live? Can you, because you, you, I've seen you talk about it before. it's there's nothing quite like it is there there isn't and you know i i think that that there's one thing talking about the way that i as you know a self-confessed animal lover feel about these things i think some of the most affecting moments that i've had have been

like for example um i'm going back to india in a month's time and the first time i went to India filming tigers. We went to a particular reserve, and they had just had a big influx of people from the local villages who had all come in in jeeps and things, and it was all quite busy, and the crew and I were getting, we were getting really hacked off because we were like, oh, we came here to see tigers in the wild, and there's people everywhere, and, you know, this is, and then we saw the tiger, and all these local Indian people were in tears, and they were beside themselves.

They were so moved and so emotional. And we felt really, really bad about ourselves and really guilty because we had kind of missed that. And actually that was the most important thing, that connection that this animal, their animal had. And that going and seeing it had all of a sudden driven this need in them to treasure it and treasure the place where it was. And seeing that there was just that absolutely universal,

emotional response to seeing this animal no matter where those people came from and no matter what their background was no matter whether they thought they were animal lovers or not was a wake-up call because it can do that for absolutely anyone and you know one of the coolest things that I get to do now is to

is to take young people out to their school yard and go and look around their concrete playground and go look at this bug have you seen this before this is a parasit it was but lays its eggs into caterpillars look at that great big long line coming there off the back of its bottom. That's this egg laying tube

and what it uses to sting as well. And it's going to sting a caterpillar and lay its eggs inside it and they'll eat it from the inside out and then emerge as this alien creature. And it's in a London playground and you can see the kids going, oh, wow, that's exciting.

And getting to have that little bit of exciting about things on your own patch is second to none. Steve, your tour, how do people get tickets for the tour? Oh, is it deadly live? dot com. Oh my gosh, that is so depressing. No, that I love that.

If you were to look at, look out for Deadly 60 Live or the Deadly Live Arena tour, then it will pop up. We are at Wembley Arena, how cool is that? Bournemouth, Brighton, Blackpool, Nottingham, Liverpool, Sheffield, Cardiff. It's going to be absolutely amazing. And books, more books coming out, please. Yes, yeah, very much so. Your books are wonderful. We have your books at home. I mean, you know, because I've said it to your face, what a huge.

fan I am. But I just, I really from my heart, thank you. Thank you for caring. Thank you for caring about young people. Thank you for caring about animals. Thank you for caring about our planet. And please keep them coming at us. And can you make some more television, please? Could you be on it? Could you be

on seven days a week? No, I'm being serious. If you could just let the BBC know that, then 100% I will. Seven days a week, we need it, but also what you do is you make it all accessible for all of us. And thank you. Thank you caring. Well, thank you for having me on. It's been an awful long time, but it's been a lovely,

lovely chat. Thank you so much.