That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Tan France

Episode Date: January 11, 2021

In this episode Gaby chats to the fabulous designer and stylist Tan France! For those of you who aren’t familiar with Tan, this man is going to lift your spirits! He’s most well-known for bringing us the hugely popular and heart-warming ‘Queer Eye’ series on Netflix in which he helps people in need of a lifestyle makeover proving that how you dress can truly change how you feel. Tan also presents ‘Dressing Funny’ on YouTube; the Netflix series ‘Next in Fashion’ with Alexa Chung and wrote his memoir book ‘Naturally Tan.’ They chat about his childhood in Doncaster and working in his grandparents clothing factory from the age of seven and tells the most romantic story about his wedding day. Plus, a jaw dropping story about Disney and hilarious tales of what people do to him when they recognise him in public.  Produced by Cameo Productions, music by Beth Macari.  Join the conversation on Instagram and Twitter @gabyroslin #thatgabyroslinpodcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And thank you for tuning in. This week, I chat to the fabulous designer and stylist Tan France. Now, for those of you who aren't familiar with Tan, this man is going to lift your spirits. He's most well known for bringing us the hugely popular and heartwarming queer eye on Netflix, which he truly helps people in need of a lifestyle makeover. He also presents dressing funny on YouTube and the Netflix series

Next in fashion with Alexa Chung. He chats about growing up in Doncaster and working in his grandparents' clothing factory from the age of seven and tells the most romantic story about his wedding day plus a jaw-dropping story about Disney and some hilarious tales of what people do to him when they recognize him in public.

I'm giggling, just thinking about it. I hope you enjoy. Gabby? Yes. Are we not seeing each other? No, we're just talking. I mean, I did my hair. I put on a nice top.

Well, weirdly, okay, here's the thing. So apart from your hair, which I have to talk to you about, because I know that only one person has ever put their hands through your hair. Not even your husband. I want to be the next. But I felt that I couldn't just sit here

in a track suit. I had to dress up for you. Oh, that's nice. So did you? Yes. Even without a camera? Good. Yeah, no, because it's you, Tan.

It would just be wrong to be a slops. So what are you wearing? Tell me, talk me through what you're wearing. Okay, I am wearing sweat pants. However, the nicest ones I could find. I, during this whole lockdown situation, whatever we're calling it, I have lived in pyjamas and sweatpants. However, as far as I'm concerned, if they're the nicest ones you can find and they do you justice, I think it's wholly acceptable. You're at home, be comfortable. However, up top I'm wearing a lovely shirt that has a little bow detail at the front.

And it's something I like very much. What colour? Give me colours. It's grey and I'm decked out in a lot of my gold that I've accumulated over the last few years just to brighten it up. Oh, how gorgeous. And I'm wearing pink because I love pink. I do love pink. But you know how happy I was?

I think it was mid-October. you put a post on Instagram with you in this great bright pink sweatshirt and bright pink hat. I loved it. That made me a very happy girl. You know, it's so weird because I obviously feel like I know you so well because doing all of my research, I've been around your house with you. Are you in Utah? Are you in your house now? Speaking to me.

Yeah, I just got back. So we live in L.A. and Salt Lake in Utah. And I just got back to my Utah home very recently. So many things to talk to you about your home. Firstly, the size of your... Now, we say wardrobe, you can say closet. We'll say closet. Yeah.

So the size, you've got the whole of the top floor and then you've got the basement as well. Yeah. So the basement isn't done yet. We don't know what we're going to do with it completely yet, so we're taking our time. However, yeah, the full length of the house and on the top floor is a walking closet. And it makes me so happy. I know that anyone who ever sees it in the video that you're referring to or in the comment in person, I know it seems like a lot. However, it's your job.

Yeah, I work with clothes for a living and I get sent things almost every day and I need space for it. And so, yeah, it's something that makes me really happy. I love my closet so much. Oh, so do I. I honestly, I want to come to your house because you've got that beautiful table and you cook everything, although you're not allowed to make rice pudding. I think rice pudding is the invention of the devil. I love rice pudding so much, so much. However, if you do come to the house and you are welcome. Actually, let me get this out of the way really quickly. I'm sure your audience already feels this way, but I feel like I need to express it. I've loved you since I was a kid when you, I mean, you woke me up every morning and you were the first

person I saw in the morning other than my own family. And we met as well. It was well. It was Weld Child Awards. Beautiful event and a really important event that I got to go to and I don't know how I got invited, but it was very nice that somebody invited me. And I got on stage to present something with a lovely lady called Kirsty. And I went to say hi to you and you were just so kind. And you whispered into my ear, something along the lines of, I'm so happy. You're here or something very kind. I think I said I love you. I think I said I love you. You didn't. I didn't want to say it because I didn't want to sound really ridiculous by saying it in case that isn't what you said. And And I was a little too starstruck.

And then I saw you literally a couple of months later in the lobby of Chris Evans' show. Yeah. And it was just such a joy. And I said hi. And then I sat back down, Alexa Chung said, do you know? Gabby, I was like, nope. I met her once, but I feel like we're friends. Well, it's really weird because when I was going around your house on the video, I honestly was like, oh my God, there's my friend.

Look at his house. Oh, my God. And then I thought, oh, I'm going to speak. to you and I'll say I can't wait to come for dinner because I've seen that you've got Wuthering Heights on your bookshelf which is one of my favorite books ever. I just, I took it all in, you see. But there is another thing that I thought was, I'm sorry, but this is the, my 19 year old daughter, I rung her up and because she is such a super fan of yours and she's away at university and I rung her up and I said, okay darling, he actually has a cupboard of candles and she said, well that's it.

Now I love him even more. you actually have a cupboard of candles. Listen, any Brit that's listening to this will think I've lost my mind and I've definitely lost touch with, yeah, and I've lost touch with my roots. However, the houses in America are a little larger. And it's just my husband and I, and we didn't need all this extra space. So I thought, well, what are we going to use this closet for? I know what I have so much of in excess and it's candles. And I just, I was never a candle person before we got this house.

I couldn't care less about candles. And when people would gift candles, I just thought, what a strange gift to give? Like, you're literally burning money. However, now that I found the right candles that they just make the house smell like home, like without it, it doesn't feel as cozy. And so, yeah, that candle closet,

it's amazing how controversial that candle closet was for me after that video. I either got so much hate or so much love. The other thing, though, which I thought was so adorable in that video, was that you hide your awards behind a clock. I am still very English. I've been in America for 12 years now. And you're a citizen now, aren't you as well? A US citizen.

Yes, I am. I'm officially an American citizen. But I'm still a very proud Brit. I'm a dual citizen. However, there are certain things that you just can't knock out of a Brit, and that's one of them where it's kind of embarrassing the award thing. When I go to Americans' houses, I've become friends with, thankfully, many people in my industry and they house their awards so proudly. And it is something to be proud

of. However, it just gives me the icks if I have the awards on the shelf and people come over, so I hide them away. Oh, be loud and proud with those. So whose houses have you been to that put their awards out? I mean, Courtney Cox is a really good friend and she has more awards than most people I know. She should be absolutely proud. She's incredible. And then there's a guy called Bench Passick who created the show, Dear Evan Hanson, which is now actually in the UK. Incredible. He also created La La Land and The Greatest Showman, and he's got so many awards. Well, he deserves them as well. And so does Courtney. And so do you. Well, I don't know about that. I honestly feel, you know, it's always interesting when I speak to

the Brits. I don't do a lot of press in the UK. I mostly do it in the US. And it's always interesting when I speak to the Brits because I know that we were kind of discreet about successes. However, I've been here almost half my life now where I don't feel the need for faux modesty. I am really proud of all the things I've achieved, considering where I came from. And when I say that to a Brit, it means more to me because they understand that being working class from a small town, you understand that better than any American ever would. And so I am really proud of the achievements. It's just weird to have them on my shelf.

But sometimes my sister and my brother will rag me a lot. They make fun of what I do. And many people in my family make fun of what I do just to keep me grounded. But I do remind them, look, this is shockingly unexpected. Nobody expected Pakistani tan from Doncaster to be here. Oh, and that's what makes it even more wonderful. And that's where I whispered in your ear, I love you, because actually, that's what we still see.

So in Queer Eye and Dressing Funny, which I think is brilliant, all of the shows that you do, that's what we still see. And that's probably, like you say, you're teased by your siblings. That's important. You just seem grounded and you seem excited. When you were on Chris's show and I saw you last time as well with Alexa, I just thought you're just a regular guy who's very much real. And it hasn't changed you this fame, has it? Thanks. I'm going to take this clip and send it to my publicist because my publicist hate that I do not know how to play this Hollywood game. You're not meant to say everything you really think. You're not meant to talk about the things that you really feel.

You're meant to just play your cards really close to your chest. However, I do still feel like regular tan. I really do. Every time I'm around the people that I'm around inside, I'm thinking, how the heck did I get invited to this? This is insane. where I came out less than three years ago, many people are shocked by that. They think we've been around for years and years. We haven't. It's very new still. And so for me, I still very much feel like 10. And I just can't believe that I'm invited to the things I'm invited to, that I'm stood in the places that I'm stood.

And that I get to be on camera. I love that. Partly because I never tried for it. I don't know about you, Gabby, did you study performing arts or did you hope for... No, I just wanted to be a TV presenter from the age of three. That's all I ever wanted to do. I was the shy girl who wanted to be on telly. just to do it. And I love that almost everybody I know knew from a very, very early age,

that is what they wanted to do. And they, uh, thankfully they've achieved it and they're happy. For me, this was, this is my second career. Actually, this is my like fourth or fifth career. And I never expected it. And so I mean, I think I'm in a really different position where I didn't need it. I didn't long for it. And so I just get to enjoy it. And I say what I want to say, because I think if anyone ever kicks me out and says that's it, Tan, we're done with Tan in Hollywood, I can say, okay, I had fun whilst I was around and I got to say whatever I wanted to say unabashedly. How fantastic. But you're talking about your many careers. Your career started at seven years old. Yeah. When you went to your grandparents factory, which I've now, am I right in thinking they were,

you always thought they were making for Disney, but they weren't. You know, I wrote a book, and it's called Naturally Tan. I wrote in the book, that I used to go to my granddad's factory, I had to work in my granddad's factory over the summer. And he made denim for Disney. Up until the age of 13 when it closed down, that is truly what I believed. And I was so proud.

And then I wrote the book, went on a press tour in the UK, and did live events. And my sister came to one of them, and she rushed backstage afterwards and said, you've gotta stop telling that story about Granddad's factory. And I was like, why it's such? a proud thing to talk about. And she said, no, no, no, you were clearly way too young to remember why it closed, why it got shut down. I was like, it didn't get shut down. He closed it down. He retired.

She was like, no, no, no. It got shut down because we were making knockoffs of Disney products. And I had no idea. And Disney had no idea. So I started talking about it very early on when people would ask about my career before this when I was on the Prestoffer season one of Queer Eye. I talked about how I started to learn how to sew in a factory that made down for Disney. And so Disney was wonderful. They flew me out. They had me come to their events, their theme park. And then literally a year and a half later I had to say, I'm so sorry, apparently we were crocs. Like we took from you, we weren't working with you. They've been great about it. They've been so wonderful about it because obviously I wouldn't have known. But I just feel so bad now thinking,

oh my gosh, you guys were championing me as somebody who has been a Disney person from day one. but really we were stealing from you. Oh, I shouldn't laugh, but it's a great story. Oh, my word. But you actually did learn, okay, they were knockoffs. We won't discuss that. Yes, we will because I can't resist. But you were actually making denim jackets and things as a teenager.

So, I mean, that's a real skill. Oh, yeah. So I remember very distinctly knowing how to make jeans and denim jackets and denim, like, waistcoats and stuff, and saying to my mom, this is, this is it for me. This is my life, this is my career. I want to work in this. And it was so hard to convince my family that this was an acceptable path for a male,

a Muslim Pakistani male. Why is that? Because anyone who is listening who knows, who's close to Asian families or is Asian, knows that there aren't that many options that our families encourages to take. When you are immigrants in a nation, you want your kids to achieve the most respectable positions. and that in our community just so happens to be doctor, lawyer, or sometimes engineer, something academic. And so if you have a child who doesn't want any of that, all they want to do is make women feel the best they possibly can by making clothes with them, that is not something that boys do.

That is not something that immigrant children do. And so I fought an uphill battle constantly. And even until the point where I had businesses here in America where I was making women's clothing, even at that point, my mom, I think, well, not I think I know, she assumed I was just selling printed T-shirts out of the back of my car at like a car boot sale. And it was an established business that was incredibly successful internationally. And she just couldn't compute that making clothes, doing something creative, could really generate a career for somebody in success. All they've ever known is academia achieves that, not creative. And how do they feel about it now? How do your family feel about this extraordinary turn of the past three years? They find it really strange and shocking. So they don't get much of anything in the UK other than queer eye and they don't really see many interviews. So when I do do a press tour in the UK,

it's really cute when I'll go over to my mum's house and she'll play an interview that I've done on it, like let's say, for example, Lorraine. And she said, did you know you're on TV? I was like, yes, I know, Mom, I do that for a job now. I just, I don't think they can compute. And I brought some of my family out to London when I was on a press tour there. And they saw me in public for the first time. Normally I go straight to my mom's house or my sister's house and they don't see me out and about. So nothing changed for them in their minds. I was just their brother or their son.

And they saw me for the first time walking around the streets of London. And they found it so confusing. And finally, my sister just turned to somebody who asked for a photo and she said, it's just stupid, Dan. I don't get it. And actually, that was perfect. It really did make it so clear that they haven't seen a change. I just get to still be regular tan.

Do you come out to LA and what you do by any chance, Gabby? Well, weirdly, the last time I was there was to talk about Courtney, was to set up Courtney. I mean, I did meet her then, but it was to set up a friend special and the guys came over and did a friend special over here. And I found LA a strange place. It is a strange place. I do agree with that.

I didn't like it for many, many years. When I shot a show there last year, I fell in love with it. I was there for a couple of months and for the first time ever I thought, wow, I can make my piece here. So the only friends I have there are industry friends. It's hard to make friends in your 30s and all of my friends. I love them so much. However, at these events, you meet people and you just think, wow, I'm positive at some point. You were a normal person, but you've forgotten how to just have a normal conversation or talk about regular things.

and it happens so often and I really tried my best to make sure that I never become that person. I never become the person who doesn't remember where they came from. And I have things that I would never have had as a working class person in Doncaster. However, I still have the same values, the same morals. I live in Utah because I don't love the celebrity life. I don't go to clubs. I don't go to bars that most of the celebrities go to. I will go to events around the Emmys and the Oscars and that's it, because I don't want to get sucked into a life that isn't real for me.

Well, I'm going to bring you back down to Earth with a bang because I got very excited. This is going to show you exactly where I'm at. You worked for Zara. Yeah. I love Zara. Yeah, I loved it so much. So I worked for the Inditex Group in general, and then I started out with a company called Berska, which I don't know if they still have it in London, but they start. Yeah, they do.

Okay. They used to have it in Manchester and I loved it so much. You know, people really rag on fast fashion for so many reasons and for so many reasons they're right, the climate issue first and foremost. Oh, I agree, I agree, I agree. But Zara, I've got stuff from Zara that's old and I... Me too. I do shopping in your wardrobe and that's what I go on about all the time on my Instagram is if you're going to buy something, then reuse it, re-wear it. But Zara's fab. I talk about this a lot in any situation I get where people will ask me questions about shopping. The amount of times I've said, shop at the likes of Zara or H&M or Uniclo, those excessively priced places. But just choose the things wisely. Don't go for the hot new trend because that's going to last six months and then you're going to look silly when you wear that.

Go for something that's a little more classic, but you know you will get years of wear out of. And then fast fashion is great because it's affordable and it's something that will hopefully last two years. And I know that they say when you buy fast fashion it falls apart after one wash. That's not the case at all. Half my wardrobe, Zara, and I've had it for at least 10 years. I take care of it. Yay, half your wardrobe Zara. I don't know why that's made. I don't work for them.

I've never done anything with them. But it's because that's where I dress. So you've just made. And all the people listening to this are just going to go, oh my God, it's not just Chanel. I assumed this before I got into entertainment. Again, I didn't know anyone in entertainment. I didn't know this industry before I got into it. It was such a random fluke and stroke of luck that I ended up in this world.

And I assumed that celebrities just buy designer clothes all the time and that's what they live in. Actually, pretty much no one, even the wealthiest in my world, do not. They will shop at Zara with me. We've been shopping to Zara together. When we get those expensive things that are either gifted to us by the designer and we promote it in return, that's their version of marketing, or we borrow it. But I do wear designer clothes often on the red carpet, but I definitely am not paying for it. I borrow it and I return it after the event, probably within the first day or so.

I think that's a really common misconception that people feel they need to keep up. And so I find it really important to tell the average viewer of mine or the average fan of mine that, please don't be fooled into thinking I purchase this. I think it's a waste of money to spend $10,000 on something like this. If you are not a multimillionaire, I don't want you going into debt because you think you have to keep up with the likes of my world. That's not the case at all. But there is one thing that you can't live with that. And actually, I'm wearing some now. I have never seen a man with more white trainers in my life. It's changed so much.

Because I remember years and years and years ago, my mum died many years ago. But if my mom saw me going off to an event or to something in white trainers with one of my maxie dresses, she'd just go, Why were you wearing trainers? But now, what happened in the world that suddenly, was it you three years ago and suddenly we're all now white trainers? I would love to take credit, but I don't think it was me. I've been wearing white trainers since I was 17. I got my first pair. There we go.

It's you. It is you. I remember exactly where I got my first pair. Do you know Manchester much? Yes, I do. Yeah, yeah. It's always. Yeah, always.

Do you know somewhere called Afflex Palace? I don't know if it's still a thing, but it used to be a thing. No, I don't. If it's still around and you're in Manchester, please go, they have a load of vintage stores in there that are fantastic. And you will find things there that you will not find anywhere else. I promise you you'll love it. I don't work for them in any way. I'm not endorsed by them.

I just truly love it. And so I purchased my first pair there. And I just realized that they were the easiest shoe because they went with everything I owned, even a suit. And so I continued to get white trainers when the old pair would die. And so now every time I dress somebody, I will always put a pair of white sneakers, a trainers in their closet just in case they need them and they can't come up with something last minute. They're rushing out the house. Well, a white pair of trainers will go with everything if they're simple enough. And I think that's a case for men and women or non-binary.

Whoever you are, I think a white pair of trainers will just, they're the easiest go to. But it's awful. I've now become, so I love shoes. I've got silly. I've got too many. And I just love them. And they make me very, very happy. And I sometimes just take them out just to look at them because I love them.

Yeah, me too. Oh, yeah, me too. But my go-to are always, I'm looking at them. You can't see me looking at them, but I'm looking at them now. Are my white trainers? They've got a bit of pink and orange on the side. But just their go-to. I have so many pairs at this point because people know that I love white trainers.

So the companies that gift things regularly will just send them. So I have probably 40 or 50 pairs. every couple of months I will do a really deep purge of a lot of the things that I own. And there's a homeless LGBTQ youth center here in Utah. And so I will take it there. And I drive around Utah, running my errands, going to the grocery store, and seeing these young LGBTQ kids around town wearing all of my clothes is so sweet to watch. And they're all in white trainers.

And it makes me so happy. Oh, I love that. Okay, so you live in Utah. To me, Utah is, you're too young, but the Osmans. So do you just walk down the street and you see another Osman brother? And do they sing? And they called it puppy love. Or do they go past you and go crazy horses? So, okay, I'm going to tell you a little story that I don't think I've ever said before because my mom would kill me. I don't usually talk about my mom ever. So I was moving to Utah 12 years ago. I was living in New York for a short time. She asked me if I was going to move back to England and I said, no, no, I'm going to move to a different place. And we moved to a place called Utah. And my mom is an immigrant. She speaks English perfectly well, but it's definitely her second language and she definitely doesn't understand geography. And so I told her I was moving to Utah. And I've mentioned many places that have been before. She had no idea where

New York was. She didn't know where Dubai was, none of those places. But when I said Utah, she immediately whipped her head around and said, oh my gosh, the Osman's lived there. Yes, yes. And I said, Mom, how the heck do you know that? You know nothing about geography. And she said, I have only ever had one crush in my life. And that was on Donnie Osmond. Oh, that's so cute. It was so sweet. And earnest. I know. It was so sweet. And so she asked, look, if you ever, ever see Donnie or Marie, can you please just like get their autograph? I said, look, Mom, people don't do autographs anymore. I'll get a picture. No worries.

However, they don't actually live here anymore. The older ones do. But the young. The younger ones live in Vegas, they have a show in Vegas, so they live there. Oh, so you haven't actually seen them? No. They're like three people in my industry that live here, and I've met two of them only in passing. Do you know the show Modern Family? Oh my goodness, yes. Okay, great.

Ty Borel, who is the dad on the show. He lives here, and then he owns a couple of restaurants here. And then there's one other person, her name's Catherine Heigel. She used to be in Hollywood. She's not really around in Hollywood anymore, but she was a big deal in the early 2000s. And she also lives here. So there's literally three of us. Yeah, you don't really see famous people walking around Utah very often. Apart, listen, if you wait in the right places, I'm sure you'll see the older Osmond somewhere. Because I thought they had a theatre there. Years ago, I think they had a theatre there.

They did. They don't have it anymore. I think it ended in the 90s. It might have been because of the Book of Mormon. They might have put them off. Have you seen The Book of Mormon? It's so good. It's one of my favourite shows. I love it so much. Oh, don't get me on musical theatre because I love musical theatre more than anything. I went to something when I was 17, it was a date with a boy who wanted to take me to London for the first time. I was like, yes, wonderful, let's go to something called proms in the park. Being South Asian, we don't really know much about theatre.

We don't, our parents aren't definitely aren't taking us to that, not in the 80s. And he took me to watch Proms in the Park and the most amazing woman I've ever heard in my entire life, sang. Voice of a freaking angel. Her name is Ruthie Henshaw. She sang. It's a Ruthie fabulous. Oh my gosh. Her and I have become friends over the last few months by Instagram,

and it makes my heart melt. I love her so much. She was the one who introduced me to musical theater. She sang, I dreamed a dream. I literally sat there crying. I'd never heard the song before, but she was so beautiful. And then I made it my life's goal to watch as many shows as I possibly could. And I'm really proud to say a lot of my friends here in America are

musical theater people, and it's just, they're fascinating. What they do every night, blows my mind. Just, well, you've got, okay, so have you, West Side Story, I think, is one of the greatest ever. It's just wonderful. Then chorus line. I haven't seen it. I really want to. Oh, my goodness. And then Dear Evan Hanson that you just mentioned. And then Hamilton, so all the modern stuff as well. It's just, oh. I didn't think I would love Dear Evan Hansen. So, the creator of the show, Benj Pasek is a very good friend of my castmate, Anthony Pirovsky. And Anthony introduced me, and he's the nicest. Benj is the nice.

guy in the world and he said, have you seen my show? Nope, I have not seen it. Okay, I'm going to take you myself to see it. Wonderful. You are kidding me. Yeah, I know. It was so nice. And so I saw the setup and it was so modern. I thought, I don't think I'm going to enjoy this. I like that musical theater is usually, harts back to the old times, all world. And I sat there blown away. I thought that what they did is so special. And I've seen it, I think, eight or nine times now with him. Every time in New York, he's like, do you want to go watch me? Yeah, sure, let's go. It's so much fun. I love it. It's so Oh, musical theatre is just something that I always disappear into.

I absolutely love it. And actually, clothing is what. It's really interesting about, I'm not going to use the word fashion, because I think fashion, suddenly people just go, oh, no, I don't want about fashion. Yeah. But clothing is something that it's very weird and styling and everything, something I've always, always loved. And secretly behind the scenes, you know, people have always said,

oh, can you take me shopping? Can you do this? Can you do this? And I've always loved it. But it's for years, you sort of had to be quiet about it. It was one of those things that you couldn't be loud and proud about. People thought it was shallow. Isn't it weird? And now I think thanks to you guys and thanks to, I suppose, Trini and Susanna all those years ago.

And that people suddenly thought, okay, it's not just about what you're putting on. It's about how it makes you feel. And queer eye, it's just about giving people that confidence through clothing through how they feel about themselves, having their head. It's not let's inject you and let's make you. and let's make you look not like you. It's getting the real you out. And fashion does that, doesn't it?

Yeah, I think that that's what is so special about Kira. I don't know that's arrogant to say, but... Oh, it is special. It is. Reality shows have been around for a very long time. And they're called reality shows, and I've got my air quotes up, because they are real people, but they are often so heavily produced. They would say, let's say, for example, we're talking about the Kardashians. Kim, Courtney said this about you.

Courtney, Kim said this about you. and then they put them in a room and there's a fight. And that's pretty much every reality. Whereas the creator of our show and the person who directs and runs our show, her name is Jen Lane, she, on the first day, she said, we're going to try something different. We are going to do the most real version of an unscripted show that you've ever seen. So we're not calling it a real show.

It is an unscripted show. So there's no producer whispering in your ear saying, and now you should say this and this person said this about you. None of that. Let's say, for example, my scene in a store. I say I need, you're allowed two to three hours. I always take three hours because it takes them a long time to dress. I want my three hours.

I want my cameras to be here. And so you go those three hours talking about whatever you want to talk about, no producer in your ear. So everything we say is completely what we feel, not what a producer or director wants us to say. And we never, ever have reshot anything. No matter how important it was. If a cameraman missed it, if the sound guy missed it,

it's done. We want that hero, the person that we help, we refer to as heroes. We want those heroes to feel like it's just me and them. And they've got our undivided attention, that we're not being coerced into anything. They're not being coerced into anything. And so that's why I think the show is so beautiful. What we achieve is the most real version of reality. And so when I'm talking to them about clothes, what I'm saying is really how I feel.

I don't care that this thing isn't. fashion anymore. I don't care that you think that you're too big for skinny jeans. You're not. I want you to feel just as gorgeous as that person who's a size zero. Let me tell you, that person who's a size zero has just as many body hangups as you do. Now let me put you in this and tell me how you feel. I don't care if it's not trendy. Just tell me what you feel about yourself in this. Can you be kinder to yourself in this than you were in the thing you were wearing before I met you? And if the answer is yes, this is the direction we take. It's not my agenda. I'm never trying to put them in something that I think is the right thing because it's hot right now. It's everything is based on who they are

and the life that they want. And I think that's what makes queer eyes are special and what I'm trying to push as far as style and fashion goes. And I've had so much criticism from the fashion community who no, why? I'm just going to say the word, who will bitch at me constantly saying he's not about fashion. He's just a wardrobe style, so he's helping people look like regular people. And I just think, yes, I know you hate me for that, but that's exactly what I want. I want them to feel like themselves. I don't want them to have to compete with Ariana Grande or Nikkeman or any of those people or Julia Roberts. I want them to be the hero of their own life. I want them to look in the mirror and think, I still feel like Jane. I'm not trying to look like Julie Roberts. I still

feel like Jane, but the best version of Jane. And that's why it works. And that's why it works. That's why every single time I laugh, I cry, I laugh again. I feel it just makes me feel very excited for all the right reasons. And that's what clothes can do to people. And I get so many people, not obviously as many as you, nowhere near. But I get lots of people saying to me, how do you dare do that? And I'm scared to mix patterns and I'm scared to wear colour. Because I go on about colour a lot because I think especially at the moment,

everybody's very, very, you know, there's a lot of people who are very, very down and feeling very scared and very frightened. Yeah. And you just realize that it's just those simple little things. And the pastor one that sticks in my mind is that what you did with him, how you made him feel by putting on that jacket and then the T-shirt and then the black trousers, he'd just, he looked like he'd been elevated to a place that he'd always wanted to go to. Yeah.

I think sometimes they're waiting for somebody to say, it's okay for you to care about how you lock. I think there's been so much shame associated with taking care of yourself and doing what feels right for you because it seems selfish and egotistical. I know the words self-care, that term has been overused at this point. We're exhausted with it. But we talked about it so much in season one because that is what it is. Take care of yourself. Make those small changes that really do change the way you view yourself. I did a big tour a couple of years ago where I was on the road literally every two days.

I was on a flight and I would visit a different university. And I would talk to them about what they think of themselves when they look in the mirror. If they feel negatively when they look in the mirror and they think, well, I look like a slob, nobody wants to date me. I haven't got the life that I want. All I'm asking is that you try.

Buy something that you want, not just because it's a thing that you need for work, not because you need a black suit, you need this dress for work. Buy something that you want, that you like, that you've never dared to put on your body before. When you put it on your body, you look at yourself in the mirror. If you don't feel better, then I will accept that and I will never hop on about it again. But if it makes you feel something, a version of you that you so

desperately lacked, then it means that this matters to you and you should continue to do it. And I've done this so many times at this point, not just through queer eye, even though we've shot so many seasons. I know for a fact at this point, I will be hard-pressed to find somebody who doesn't feel better when they've made more of an effort in what they're wearing. Yeah, it's so true. And I think now, you know, we were joking about saying that wearing track suits and track pants and, God, there is a difference between the way, you know, Americans and English talk about clothes.

You know, I know you talk about dungarees and overalls and pants and pants. But, you know, everybody wants to be comfortable, but you're still, I remember a girlfriend of mine, the first lockdown. And she was really, really down. and she contacted me and she said, I just, I can't do anything to make of herself feel better. And I said, do you me a favor, put on a bright top and just put some mascara on? And she just went, why? Nobody's seen me. I said, put mascara on and put some lipstick. She said, oh, you always do that. I went, yes, yes. And it makes me feel better.

And it's those simple little things that anyone can do. And people are, I think people are scared to to admit that they're feeling down about how they look because then they think, oh, I don't want to, You know, there's so much, everybody's so judgmental. More so in the UK. After living in both places almost an equal amount of time, I find that the Brits are so much harder on themselves and less willing to accept that they may feel blue. We were taught from a very young age that we don't show our emotions,

that we don't cry, that we don't say that we need help if we are struggling with our mental help. And that is the one, there are many beautiful things about living in America, but that is one thing I really respect is that when somebody's feeling down, they'll say, I'm having a bad day. And I would love to talk to somebody and help myself get out of the situation. And I respect that so much. And I love that you told your friend to do those small things that, quite honestly, it's going to change your whole day. I don't know if you felt this way. I definitely felt this way. For the first couple of days, I made no effort. Because last year,

I had truly 19 days off. The whole year, only 19 days. I didn't have to do glam. I didn't have to be on a flight. And so this, when Corona hit and, and I knew I had to stay home, the first two days, I said to my husband, I'm not going to wash my hair. I'm not going to plan an outfit. I'm just going to be for the first time in years. He was like, yeah, yeah, go ahead. Do what, do what feels right. And then two days in, I would walk past a mirror and catch myself in the mirror and think, who is that person? I don't like that version of me. I don't like the laziness that I'm engrossed in. I want to make an effort because I want to feel the same joy I feel. I make an effort. My husband and I have been together for 12 years and I think that one of the

reasons why it's so successful is because we respect each other enough to make an effort for each other. I don't make an effort at home just for myself, even though it is important to it for yourself. I also want him to know that I respect him enough to make an effort for him and he does the same for me without having to ask and that really that really is important. You two are so cute together. Does he still leave a note for you every single morning? Yeah, pretty much. When did that start? How did it start? We had a lot of long-distant relationship months in our first few years.

And so it would start with like little Facebook message. We used to communicate through Facebook 12 years ago. And so it started with that. And then when I would be in the same country as him, the same house as him, he would leave for work. I wasn't working a regular job. I had my own businesses. So I worked from home. So every time he'd leave in the morning, he would leave me a note.

And this started, yeah, within the first year. And it's continued on. And every time I get on a flight, and again, I fly out when we're not in this horrible time we're in now, I'm usually on a flight three or four days a week. And as I'm leaving to go to the airport, and if he's already at work, I'll either find a note in the house or a note in my bag. Reminding me of why he married me. And it's lovely. How did you two meet? We met online.

We met on a dating website. It was before apps. I'm 37, he's 43. We met on a dating website where you had to connect to your Wi-Fi, which took a while, get on your laptop. And I was in Salt Lake City, Utah, visiting friends. And I made friends over the years. And they were getting really frustrated that every time we'd go out to a bar, I used to go to bars. I definitely have no interest in doing that anymore.

That's a young person's game. I would go out to these bars and clubs and I was the only brown person. I'm one of the very few brown people in Salt Lake City. They're really so, so, so few. And so I'd go to this bar with them and it was a gay bar and I was the only person of color there. And people just found it fascinating and they thought I was exotic. They'd even know where Pakistan was and I spoke with this foreign accent. And so I would get the attention of the people that my friends wanted a date.

And so they said, look, we're going to stop this. We're going to put you on a website so they can't hear your silly accent and fall for it. Let's put you on this website instead. And so I got on a website and within the first couple of hours, Rob messaged and said, you don't look like you from around here. And my response was... Sorry, the first couple of hours, it was that quick. It was that quick.

And she reached out and said, you don't look like you from around here. And I responded to say, yeah, no shit, Sherlock. And he apparently liked how a sassy I was. And so he messaged for a few days. I didn't want to date. I was only on there because they wanted me to be on there. I had no intention of dating. I wanted to be single for a while.

I'd gotten out of a relationship where I was dumped and left for somebody else, and it destroyed me. And so I wanted to be single for a couple of years and really be good being single and I was. And so I had no interest in dating. But he wore me down. And a few days later we got lunch and it went really well. And then we saw each other every day for the next few days until. I left and the rest is history. We we we we we saw each other every day via Skype.

That is so adorable. So tell me about your wedding. Was it completely incredible? I so we got married twice. We got married in the UK. That was our first one. And then we had to get married a second time in the US for my green card. A few years later. So we got married in the UK. We'd been together for a year and a half. We got married at the Islington Town Hall. We didn't want a big wedding. We've never been the grand gestures. kind of people. We do everyday romance. We couldn't care less about commercial romance or romance that is just a one-off. We don't see spending a lot of money on something or going into debt as romantic. And so we decided to go to the town hall. We had two witnesses and I had chosen my suit

a few weeks in advance and so had Rob. But when it came to the wedding day, Rob put his suit on and he didn't like it. He just felt really unhappy with it. And you should feel like your very best on your wedding day. And he loved my suit, and he was sad that he didn't feel the way he wanted to feel in his suit. And so I took my suit off and gave it to him to wear. So he felt wonderful.

And I wore his suit, which was a size too big. And it looked like I was wearing my dad's suit. It was horrible on me. But I didn't care because he felt beautiful. Oh, my word. It made me really happy, yeah. But that's the most romantic thing I've ever heard. We definitely don't do grand gestures, but yeah, just little things like that.

You got me there completely with that one. So now, something I always ask on this podcast is what makes you laugh? Because you do, you smile. All the shows that I've seen you going on and all the chat shows, you just have this smile. And in queer eye as well, you have that smile. And I can tell when you talk about Rob that you have that smile. So what makes you properly laugh, belly laugh? I love comedy so much, which is why I created the show Dressing Funny.

So if anyone hasn't seen the show, I take comedians shopping, some of the most incredible comedians. And so what makes me like fully guffal, like laugh so hard, is usually a comedy show. I have nobody in my life. And I've said this and it's very harsh, but I've said this many times before to groups of people. If you don't make me laugh, you're not in my life. I'm not a very serious person very often. I'm incredibly playful. And I like that you said, you always see me smiling and whatever I do.

My castmates will say, if you ask them one thing about me, I've watched many interviews with them, and they all say exactly the same thing. Tan is the happiest person, the most positive person who'll ever come across. No matter how crappy things are, I will find a way to make myself happy and to be positive and convince people that, I know it's terrible right now, but there's still light at the end of the tunnel. It's going to be okay. And we're going to work together to make it okay.

And so I always have a smile on my face. But to make me really laugh, it takes somebody who knows me, knows my humor. I hate to say, I know it's cheap and tacky, but I love some vulgar humor. I love an inappropriate joke. I just like somebody who is witty. I don't know if you, did you meet Alexa Chung the day that we did. Yes, I have a couple of times. Her wit is so inappropriate.

sometimes, but because it's in a moment that we shouldn't be making that joke and that's the last thing you should be saying, that makes me laugh so hard. We've had an unfortunate time in our family where we've had a lot of people pass away. I'm so sorry. Thank you. However, I get it from my siblings. We're all very similar where it doesn't matter what has happened. We will find a moment to laugh about the situation. Even though it's a family member who's passed away, we'll find a way to lighten the mood, not laugh at the situation, but lighten the mood.

and say, yes, this is horrible, but we are going to get through this together through humor. Oh, I agree. I agree. That's why I'm so playful. I agree. I mean, you know, people always say to me, do you just laugh all the time? Yes, it drives my husband mad when we wake up in the morning. I start laughing. He goes, what now? And I will just think of something stupid. My two favorite things about you that made me laugh so much when I was doing all my research was, you say that strangers come up to you and lift you up, and bounce you? Yes, not anymore. They had to stop because we, every time they come up, I now have to say, do not lift me. What do you mean? I, so on Queer Eye, I am surrounded by giants. I have four castmates who are all at least six feet tall. And I'm 5'9, which is the average height of a British and an American man, completely average height. However, people see me as

somebody that you can put into your pocket because I'm petite. And so when they see me in real life, the first thing that they do is they will charge towards me and lift me. And they're so excited that they'll bounce me up and down. And even though it's hilarious, it's horrible when you're on the receiving end because you have a stranger, a complete stranger. And they usually, I don't know why, they're disproportionately sweaty. and I have full body contact.

I don't get that close with many people in my life, but these complete strangers love to have me jump up, and then they will bounce me up and down. And they call me Tanny. Jonathan and Anthony, now the others, they all call me Tanny on the show, or Tanny Banny, just to be idiots. And so now strangers in the street,

when they're running up, they're like, oh my gosh, Tanny Bani, it's you, and then they'll pick me up. It's funny if you're not the person, who's being... No, I know, and I'm so sorry. And when I next see you, I promise I won't lift and bounce, but the fact that people lift and bounce you just had me in history. It's always straight men, Gabby, always straight men. I don't really walk around anywhere anymore just because for security, I do have to accept the...

Yeah, because you don't want to be lifting and bounced. I get it. And I have to accept that I am a gay Muslim man and a lot of people definitely don't love that. So for security, I'm usually in a car. However, in New York, it's definitely a place where you walk around. Getting around in the car is actually very, very difficult. It takes a long time. And so New York is always straight New York big burly men who will say, oh my gosh, me and my girlfriend, love you. And then they'll go in for it.

They'll lift and bounce. Lift and bounce. I got injured on one of these lift and bounces. So I fly between L.A. and New York very, very regularly. It's a five and a half hour flight. And one day at the LA airport, somebody got so excited that they lifted and bounced to me. Huge guy. And he threw out my neck.

And I was like, oh my gosh, you throw out my neck. Put me down. Please put me down. So put me down and I couldn't move. But for the whole five and a half hours, I had to sit upright and could not move at all. And so Netflix got involved and the security team got involved. They're like, what do we do to stop this? And they're like, you're just going to have to be mean and get that reputation of being mean.

to people who try and stop me. But when they come up, I'm like, so nice to meet, you do not lift me. I'd mean hysterics. When you go to the loo, when you go to the bathroom, as they say in America, that people ask you to do the French tuck. Yes. They will ask for a picture. They will ask to hug me or they will ask me to French tuck them. While you're actually peeing. It's very, very, very rare. I'll use a urinal. But if I'm forced to, if there's nothing else, available, I will have to. However, that's the time they get me every time. They will stand. No way. They will stand at least, they will stand in the slot next to me or the one over and they'll act surprise that they've seen me and I just think, I saw you follow me in. And then they'll

say, can we take a picture? I don't, I definitely can't take a picture in the restroom. Please, wait for me outside and I'll take a picture there. Or they'll just try and come up and hug me from behind. I'm like, do not. Please. No. The amount of times it's happened, Gabby, the amount of times it happened. It's insane. Oh, my word. So, okay, so the two things you don't want, you don't want to lift and bounce, and you certainly don't want a lift and bounce or a French talk when you're actually full mid-pee.

I will say this. I do feel, this is a weird comment to make, but I do feel incredibly lucky just because they're not doing this to most people in my industry because most people, most, Hollywood, they're acting. And so you don't know what to expect. You don't know if somebody's going to be mean in real life. You only know them as a character. The fact that they do this to me means that they clearly have a liking for me and they feel like I'm their friend.

And I think that's the most confusing part. That's lovely. So lovely. But not while you're peeing. Not while you're actually midst wee wee. Let me tell you. So I started to figure it out when I was in New York. I turned a corner and this was maybe a two or three.

weeks after the first season came out. And this group of girls saw me turn the corner of the, oh my gosh, what are you doing here? Without skipping a beat. Oh my gosh, what are you doing here? And I realized that, oh my gosh, they think they know me. Yeah. Yeah. And they think I know them. They think I'm their friend. And so we learned a trick from a friend of ours who has been in the industry for a while. The way you do it is you say, hi, my name's Tan. And that stops immediately. And they start to realize, oh, my gosh, I'm treating him like, I know him. He doesn't know me. I don't actually know him. I just think he's my friend because of TV.

And so that has done me so well. Every time that happens, every time somebody screeches all of a sudden, as if they've just seen their friend from 10 years ago, I say, hi, my name's Tan. Nice to meet you. What's your name? And it takes them right out of it.

And they're like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. You don't know me. I'm like, no, I don't know you, but it's so nice to meet you. Next time you're in the UK, just please let me know because I just want to, I will. I just want to sit and laugh with you. Let's go to dinner.

I would love that very much. And let's go shopping together. I mean, yes, of course. I would love that. Tazara. A quiet one, though. Not one of the busy ones on Action Street, whatever, or Regent Street. Let's go somewhere.

No, no, no, no. Actually, wait, I know we're wrapping up, but I've got a question for you. Go on. It's only fair. All right, yeah. Have you been tempted to do anything in the TV space in clothes? Oh my God, desperate. I desperately want to.

Everyone keeps wanting me to do shopping in your wardrobe on telly. I've just got to find the right way to do it. Okay, good. I cannot tell you what an... What a joy you are. Really, really, really you are. I've loved it too. Stay safe. I know that things are scary out there right now, but please stay safe. And when the world opens back up again, I'll be in London and we shall for sure get dinner. Bless you. Thanks, Tan. Take care. Bye.

Thank you so much for listening. Coming up next week on that Gabby Roslin podcast, the one and only, Sir Michael Palin. That Gabby Roslin podcast is proudly produced by Cameo Productions, music by Beth McCari. Please press the subscribe button and it will come straight to your phone on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you choose to listen. Also, please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts.