That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - The Cast of BBC's 'Ghosts'

Episode Date: October 17, 2022

This week Gaby is joined by the incredible Mathew Baynton, Ben Willbond, Martha Howe-Douglas and Laurence Rickard from BBC's phenomenal sitcom 'Ghosts'. The cast share anecdotes from their time working on 'Horrible Histories' and how that developed into the making of this hit BBC show. They discuss life behind the scenes, their writing process and how each of them is perceived by the public when they take part in other shows. A heartfelt, honest and hilarious episode.All episodes of 'Ghosts' are available on BBC Iplayer. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And welcome to That Gabby Roslin podcast, part of the Acast Creator Network. Hello, thank you so much for tuning in. On this episode, we have the cast of the BBC's brilliant sitcom, Ghosts. I absolutely love this show and love them. They're also the people behind horrible histories as well. So on this episode, we have Ben Wilbond, who plays the captain. Lawrence Ricard, we also call Larry. He plays Robin the Caveman.

Matthew Bainton, who plays Thomas the poet, the man who is in love, of course, with Alison. And Martha Howe Douglas, who plays Lady Button. Oh, they are a complete joy. I mean, we laughed from beginning to end, and we talk about horrible histories, we talk about ghosts, and they are just, oh, four of the loveliest people. In fact, I'd like to move into Button House and live with them,

Maybe not as a ghost, though. Don't forget, you can keep up to date by following and subscribing, please, to the podcast, where a new episode is released every Monday. Leave us a rating on the Apple Podcast app. And whilst you're there, why not leave us a review? We love to hear your thoughts. Now, on with the show. Matthew Bainton, Thomas, Lawrence, Ricard, Larry, Robert.

You see, so many names for you, the caveman. Martha Howe Douglas, Lady Fanny. And Ben Will Bond, the captain, welcome to the podcast. Hello, dear. Thank you so much. You know, you can see, unfortunately because this is only sound, I have got the biggest smile on my face because I've lucky enough to have interviewed you all before. And I think horrible histories is just genius, but then you're bringing ghosts.

Oh. Yeah. Heaven in everywhere. Okay. So will one of you tell me how you all first met? Who was the person that created this amazing rep company? Well, I was in prison for a little stretch. Yeah, thanks, Ben.

No, no, no. How do we mean? What was the very first moment? Because you're all performers. Sadly, there isn't one day when we all met for the first time, is there? Because we'd all, some of us had met each other, some of us hadn't. Yeah. We were all cast in horrible histories.

So credit for that should go. Cassie King was the casting director. Yeah, good, pretty cool. And Caroline Norris, the producer, and Dominic Brickstock and Charles Pilbrow. That's the team who were deciding who got to be in that show. The people, some of the people that I used to work with on the Big Breakfast. Right. You go.

Yes. Wow. But then when you, I thought that you as a troupe, because I love that, everything that I was researching about you yesterday, The troop, which I think is lovely. It's a bit old story. It's very Shakespearean. But the gang, the troop, the rep company that you are.

I thought that you all came together before the start of horrible history. No, I didn't know any of them. Me and Matt were the only ones who hadn't met anyone, right? No, no, I'd met Simon. Had you? I haven't met you? I don't. No, we hadn't.

But we realised we'd been at a number of festival. I'd seen his poster all over the end of French festival. I got, who's that idiot? That guy. I'd see Jim and Simon Lydden. I don't met him and hadn't met him. But then you're writing, you're writing heads because you all, you know, you develop all these characters, you create these characters, you write it all, you produce it. When did that start happening then?

Well, I think we were all doing that before on the circuit in one way or another. I mean, I knew Simon and Jim from doing Edinburgh's and that's what we did. We just, we did silly sketch shows and characters. And I was on the horrible history. Yeah, yeah. As a writer, sort of first and foremost, and then when the makeup changes just weren't going to work, they're like, it's no good,

we're going to have to get Larry to do one of these sketches. It's the only one we're going to get through the day. So I was sort of doing bits and bobs through that first series. Suddenly he was there. As a gladiator, it was like, who's this guy? If you keep turning up and go, yeah, I'll put a beard on. Yeah, yeah, you can put a wig on here. They'll just let you go on.

Yeah, they'll just let you go on. Yeah, they'll just. Is that what it is? That's what we all need to do. So with horrible histories then Okay, so I'm going to ask that question again Who was the person that said right Let's now create other things

Well we all said that I think after the first series Second series we were going in We were like we've got to We've got to keep this fun going Because this might stop at any minute And then how are we going to have this much fun So you had as much fun as we did

Oh totally We were so young If we did If we did that show now, it would break us within a week. But we were young enough and energetic enough that we did just love it. Yeah. I mean, it was so fast. It was so silly and fast.

We had very, very little time to make decisions. You always hear actors, like the real great actors, going, well, of course, when I prepared, I had to make several decisions. And we were just going, looking at the sketch before we went on, with hair and makeup being applied to our face going, right, what voice are you going to do? Yeah. I'll do a sort of Michael Cain.

Can you do a Michael Cain? I'm going to be one of sort of up there on that way. And then it was kind of all done in the makeup trailer. And then we got onto the set and then did a very quick rehearsal and then adjust, you know, because you can feel whether something's working or not. And then just shoot it. They literally just wasn't tight. If there wasn't something technically wrong, like something had fallen over.

It's like doing doctors. Then that was it. It was in the can and it was done. To the extent that there is a sketch in, I think, series one, which is Gladiator School, where I laugh and I try to hide behind a stick. And they didn't do another take because they didn't have time. So it's just in the show.

My favourite is that one where Jim did the whole sketch with his eyes shut. And it was about halfway through shooting, and Dom the director went, was he been doing it like that the whole time? And it was clear that he had? And at that point, you're too far in to go back and start again. So we just did it with his with his eyes. There's so many.

If you comb through it, you will see a lot of people turning slightly away. Or just sort of, you know, grabbing their faces. It was so that we've often done things where you go, that's turned out really well, but it wasn't a great deal of fun to do. Or that was absolutely brilliant, but it didn't turn out great. I think the fact that the show went down so well and we had so much fun doing it, that felt like kind of lightning in the bottle. and that's why we were so keen to try and do something else together.

But it's the enormity. I mean, horrible histories is still, is enormous. You know, people, you were so much a part of people's lives. Adults and kids alike, and I know we'll go on to ghosts, and that's a big part of it because it's for everybody, which I love. But horrible histories really captured everybody's hearts. I mean, it really did. Did you have any idea when you were doing it, apart from?

I think the first series we look back. If you look back at that, it felt very, it really doesn't look a lot like the fifth series. It's not very good. I actually can't watch it. It's not very good. I can't do it. But there were moments in series one where we went, oh, this is good. And they stood out.

There were certain sketches and songs where it was like, oh, I remember the four Georges was the only song in the first. series that was a sort of a parody of something and it was a parody of a boy band and when we were doing it was like this works yeah yeah and then that sort of set a template for how the songs were done beyond and i remember watching the sketch with um with you and jim being cavemen and that moment of sort of full ball breaking and dropping a character when you're like that's my man that's my end of the day yeah and i was like that that that's great you know that that sort of almost pulling your beard down and looking at the audience and going And we're having to laugh too. Yeah.

That felt like a certain moment where you felt like that that was the way forward. We couldn't quite believe we were allowed as well because all that stuff wasn't scripted and we just did it. It wasn't scripted. Well, stuff like that where that's, um, yeah, I said ugly bugly and he said, do you mind? That's my nan at the end of that. I'm really, really sorry. And then we go back into character. That was us amusing each other.

Yeah. And then because the director thought it was funny. he was happy for us to do it and we thought well it won't make the cut but it's making us laugh and it's getting us through the day and then it went in and those things became part

of the tone of the show and sort of yeah I mean writing on the second series we had so much sort of knowledge of the things that were that tone that had come out that you could start to write sketches going I know how they'll do it now because when we were writing the first series we didn't know who was cast so there was no sense of sort of the tone of it

that all became so much easier honestly it was brilliant It's made me hearing you talk about it again because we do watch it every so often at home. I have to say it's how my kids learn most of their history. Oh, us too. I mean, that's how we learned. I've forgotten it.

Oh, I've forgotten everything. Like literally everything. Well, now because you're ghosts. Don't ask me a fact. Ghosts don't have memories apart from their own life. We've been around too long. We can go to yonderland, obviously, next. Because then obviously, horrible histories you realize that you're a troop

and that you want to do more together. Was it a very easy step to make that next step? Yeah, pretty much. I remember having conversations about exactly what we were just saying, which was that something in the anarchy of horrible histories work, something in the spirit of... Sounds like we're having a wee. Ben is now having a wheeze.

When you've got to go, you've got to go. When you get to Ben's age. Podcast records a very long time. He needs those men's pen of pants. He's frequent breaks. Sorry, yeah, something in the anarchy of it, something in the spirit of the twinkle in the eye of being naughty, being the naughty kids at the back of the class.

Oh, isn't it the best thing? Best thing. And so when we started writing Yonderland, that was a conversation we had, which was like, okay, now we're the writers, all of us. We've got to make sure that we don't get really respectful full of the writing because we need to have that same spirit of anarchy. And it's harder to do that if you're the one who's written the script.

Does that make sense? Yes and no, I think. Because what we were just talking about, you know, those moments where you're filming a sketch and you sort of, there's that freedom to play. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And be a little bit naughty. So is it not right? So, are you underwriting then? Well, no, not underwriting.

It's just, it's a sort of how to put this. I think if we got so in love with our characters and our stories, I think as actors we would have less freedom. Oh, that's very interesting. You kind of try to work the scripts up as far as you possibly can and make them as watertight as special as possible. But you're in the back of your mind, you're always sort of going, and this is 95% of it.

And that other 5% will be on set and has to be on set. and that's the bit that makes it feel like us. And so you always know that there's a, whatever line might be, and however in love with it you might be, something will be done that will probably change it by 5%. And it would be funnier for it. So it's, yeah, sort of it.

So not being too precious. Yeah, and sort of not just accepting that, but kind of embracing it because you go, that thing that will change, will make it almost always make it better. You know, and then that reflects on your script. And you go, yeah, that was a great joke, wasn't it.

I remember writing that one. And, you know, it wasn't. That was something that popped up So how do you, with hats, Martha, with a writing hat and an acting hat, how do you, if you've written it and you're acting it, how are you able to, is there a big difference? When you're performing it, do you think of it differently? I do, yeah.

I kind of leave the writing at the door then and do the part. I think it's more of a responsibility when it's your script and your thing. Like when we were doing that horrible histories, we like actors for hire. When we started on Yonderland, I think that that came with a lot. Like I look back on the days of horrible histories and I think it was just so fun.

There was no responsibility. But when it becomes your thing that you're writing, you're producing, there's much more kind of there. So I think it's important for me to leave that bit at the door when you're acting. That's interesting. Yeah. It's a real double-ed sword. Yeah.

It comes with more weight and more pressure, but it means that it, yeah, but it means it can be your own, thing and that you have you know that you've got more control over it but it does mean there's more weight and more pressure and it's it's less sort of frivolous and fun so it's um yeah it gives and it takes away i think what happens if you just give yourselves the best lines we did yeah it's always a little bit yeah i think that's part of it's kind of a good part of the process as writers because it's like it it's um you know i think writers who perform especially with

comedy, there is a sense that you know what a delicious moment feels like when you read a script. And we're not just doing it for ourselves, but we're also wrapping gifts up for each other when we write. And while you're writing an episode and you come up with something good for someone's character and you know that person really well, there's that feeling of like, oh, Martha's going to love this. I can't wait to see what she does with this. and, you know. But yeah, of course we're trying to give ourselves brilliant lines, you know. I remember the Lady Button line that's in this series with the Pet Cemetery. Yes.

Where you get to say, no, that was when they're talking about your dog and how it's buried. And Alison goes, but I thought your dog was in the house. And she says, no, that's just the crust. This was the meat. We buried the meat. It's just like, oh, yeah, they have a ball with that line. And it's such a lovely moment. I love you said those delicious.

Okay, let's go to ghosts because it, I mean, it is sort of bigger, I hope it's bigger than you ever imagined. Did you think it would be like this? No, I didn't, no. No, we were just making it up as we went along. We went into pitch to the BBC going, well, I don't know, we maybe, maybe. Well, we talked about, it was something we really wanted to do and couldn't make work for ages. We talked about ghosts and we loved that idea.

And every time we talked about the idea we could find so much that was funny in it. And then for ages we couldn't make stories work because stories sort of need stakes like money and death and all the things that don't matter to a ghost And we kept putting it away and going on to other ideas And then coming back to it, it wouldn't stop sort of niggling And then it was sort of, you're hitting on Mike and Allison And them having the stakes, you know, them as the living people

And then having one of them can see the ghosts, one of them can't The way I remember it's the big breakthrough was that they was that the ghost story in the pilot would be them arguing over who gets the dead ladies room. Because it was like, oh, that can be their stories. The stakes can be tiny and like petty as hell. But it matters to them. But it matters to them and that will give them some stories. Actually, in the writing process, your brain does now default to that state.

What are the stakes for the ghosts? what tiny little things will matter to them individually. And as you get to know them more, you start to find those little things that just really matter to that one ghost or those two ghosts, you think, oh, they're really going to scrap over that. And then you've got half an hour to play that out.

There might be big stakes in the episode for Mike and Allison, but for the ghosts it might be, they've heard that they're going to ban bait beans. We haven't done that. That's really good. Pat would absolutely lose his mind. You are? You've got to do that now.

You've absolutely got to do that. I read that you have said, Matt, that it was, there was something to do with the Danny Dyer story on who do you think you are. Oh, yeah, yeah. And that's, yeah, I'd forgotten that. And Rocky Horror Show and, gosh, all sorts of things. Going back to the conception of the show, yeah, one of the things we spoke about a lot in the pilot was Alice was, What would...

Asim, sorry, it was the idea that Alison would get really into and excited by this lineage that she suddenly discovers that she's got. That's where the Danny Di reference was, wasn't it? Because they had just done the series of who you think you are where he found out he was related to Henry VIII, descended from Henry.

Yeah, he was. Henry the Eighth. Almost certainly. Anyway, some king who in common with several, with hundreds of thousands of people. Yes, exactly. But that was just sort of an amusing thought to us was like the idea that Alison finds out

that she's got this kind of aristocratic lineage and is really into it immediately what sort of embraced that side of herself. And also it said Renta Ghost, which is something that I don't think any of you were old enough to remember. No, Rentaghost is one that other people bring up but I never watched it. Because to me it's not.

Because it's got ghosts in it. That always annoyed me a bit. Well, there was a tweet. Yeah, it's also a bit like ghost in that there's a ghost. After our first outing, the first series. The first show, someone tweeted, well, it's not rent a ghost, is it? So I'm not going to watch it. I think that was the one critic.

I can't remember. It wasn't. It was someone who did. Won't be as good as rent a ghost. It's no renter ghost. And we're like, well, no. No, no, it's not. Thank God, it's not.

No offense to Rentico. Well, I don't remember Rentico. We weren't trying to make that. Well, but this, so this season, so there's no spoilers. Just in case you haven't watched some of the episodes, you can get them all on BBC I player right now. But I have to say, even though I'm smiling, there is a part of me that is broken.

because my youngest daughter does an impression around the house. Get out, get out, wedge! I can't do it and she wouldn't let me record her doing it, but it's very good. Oh, we had some tears this season. And that was very, very sad because we've all, we all love all of the characters. I have my soft spots for all of you, but there's a couple that. And Mary was one. And she's passed.

over. Yeah. That's what she wanted. Yeah, it's what she wanted. But, you know, if you're going to go, if you're going to do a deep dive on the whole theme of the show, let's get into existentialism, right? Because at some stage, we're all going to go. And, you know, it would be remiss of us not to touch on that.

It's a show about ghosts. And they haven't moved on. They're stuck in a house together, arguing away. and living their after lives and then, you know, it's got to win some... Yeah, no, absolutely, of course. And actually that's what makes it a bigger, deeper, deeper, sort of thicker show.

There's more meat's there. An autumnal soup. But so how do you... Not a con soume, yeah. It's a broth. It's a broth. Definitely a broth. It's soup season.

So, okay, so talk me through the process of how you sit down. I mean, you're all. all, you said you're very tired because you've been working and writing so much. But how does it work? Then you all get into a room together. Let's not talk about the COVID one because I know you all did that separately and then got together. But you just go, okay, time to sit down.

We'll all sit in a room and then this is my character. This is what's going to happen. How does that work with such? I know America does it like this. We very rarely do shows like you do. We just sort of happen to because there's a bunch of us. It's strange. I think the reason people often question, though, why?

don't we do writers rooms in the UK? It's economics. It's literally like American shows have 20 episodes. English shows have six. But we want 20 of yours. Sure. But like the minute you have a writer's room, you know, all those writers have to be paid. And if there's only six episodes to go around, you can't put 10 people in a room because they don't each get to write an episode.

But basically because we love it. We do all of that stuff for free. And the reward is we get to write a script. So we've sort of happened into something that's somewhere halfway between the UK kind of authored voice, you know, of the writer-performer and the American writer's room just because there happens to be quite a large group of us. But it's great. You know, we sit and brainstorm stories and lots and lots of ideas come up far quicker than they would if you're on your own stare at. a computer screen. And because it's us and we've known each other and worked together for so long,

it's so sort of, the tone of that is so generous. As where one comes and goes, oh, I had an idea. And it's not necessarily about, you know, I thought this series, my character could do this. You would go, I had this idea for a really great Pat story. And then, you know, that might just be a line. And from that we start to extrapolate. Oh, yeah, and then that could happen, that could happen.

And then, you know, you get three or four of those threads and suddenly you've got the bare bones of an episode. So it sort of works quite organically. and then we go off and write them sort of individually or impairs. And then it comes back around the table and we polish it up and read them out and see what, you know, specific lines and tweaks we can all bring to it. It's great because you don't, it's not just story you come away with because people will have improvised just naturally when you're talking through ideas.

People will just improvise little moments. So you come away with the bones of a story from the work together. but you'll also have literal lines of dialogue that, you know, any one of us will have just improvising. We go, oh, that's funny. And you write down the line and it's there in the script, you know. So they're, yeah, they're very, I mean, yeah, it's like you've been sort of gifted this. Again, I'm going to just keep talking about presents.

But I love that. You walk away with a gift with a bag full of gifts, basically, you know. And it's fun. It's a fun. It's a fun. We had a room. We had a room in a really, I won't name the establishment, so I don't want to do them down. But we had a room not so long ago in a really weird dilapidated rehearsal space

because it was where we could get. And we all sat down together and it was one of those days, you know, to go through script ideas, it was one of those days where got to the end of the day and my face hurt from laughing. Same. And it's, you know, that's so rare as an adult that you get those. And they do feel, you know, really lucky that we have that. You know what's so special about the show And I sort of touched on it before

And I know it's important to you guys But I am passionate about television for everybody And naughty TV And I mean naughty in the way that you make shows The way that I feel about television And there should be more of it, quite frankly There should be 20 episodes of you guys But it's very much, isn't it, Ben?

That this show is for all ages Because at first, you know, it was started after Waters Post-Whorpe. watershed and it's it's always been my 88 year old dad loves it my kids love it 15 year old daughter loves and all of us in between yeah i think it's because we all well i speak for myself growing up uh watching comedy i loved watching comedy obviously and there wasn't any demarcation of this is a comedy for teens so you can't watch it because you're an adult there's none of that there really wasn't it's like there's the there's the comedy slot this is what's

on and hope you enjoy it. And, you know, I have memories of sitting down with my family and watching, you know, initially things like Dad's Army, which my dad still watches. But it's wonderful. And, you know, the captain is a little bit mannering. Yes. Obviously, you know, you can't get away from that. But, yeah, it was for everyone.

And everyone enjoyed it. Everyone loves sitting down for that half hour. I think that's what we always felt. was maybe missing and we just want to go there it is just just sit around and have a laugh with your family that that it's fine to do that I think that was the the interesting thing for us as well about doing something on BBC one is I think there are a lot of comedy writers where their particular dream is sort of on something which is I don't know I don't know I don't know whether it respected is the right words but I suppose is um can be quite thoughtful

when the adults were like and respond too well and it's that sort of 10 o'clock BBC 2, slightly intellectual spot, and to write something that was going to be pre-watershed BBC 1 would be the compromise. And I think the tone of the stuff that we've done together, and it's not always the case with our solo stuff or other projects, but for us, that felt like a natural fit. And so to go, would you think about doing a sitcom

for pre-water shed for BBC 1? And that wasn't us having to get a crowbar in and going, how will we make that work? We were like, yeah, that feels like a home for us. Yeah. And, you know, from those very first scripts, that's what they felt like. We didn't have to tweak them to make them fit that slot. That's what they were.

It went out post-watershed because of compliance, didn't it? Because I think it was seeing Humphrey's, the stump of Humphrey's neck, and that Lady Button jumps out the window. Yeah. And that Thomas says, I'm going to drown myself in the lake. There were a number of things where the compliance came back and said, these are references, you know, these are sort of imitable, imitable behavior like jumping out of a window. You can't, you know, because someone might go, oh, I'll try that.

You know, so there were sort of, it wasn't designed to be post-watershed, but there were these reasons why it suddenly had to be that were so 11th hour that we couldn't have rewritten the show to accommodate. them. But I think when it went out, it was then really clear that in context, none of those things were problematic. Yeah, absolutely. And so by the time the second series came around, I think there was a relaxation of that stuff, which was like, oh, actually families are watching this show and it's not problematic. It's all clear in the context of the conceit, which is that they're ghosts. You know, when Thomas says, I'm going to drown myself in the lake, it's clear that that's funny because he can't

because he's a ghost. And there were a number of people, you know, they couldn't argue with the fact that so many people were going, this is great, why isn't it on 830? You go, yeah. Yeah, that's the good question. But it's one of those shows that, I mean, we dip it in and out of,

we go back to our favourite episodes from all of the seasons. And we do that, as I said, my 88-year-old dad loves it. And he sits around at our house, comes around to eat at our house. It was ghosts. And we put on,

even when it's not on. And so we put it on and he'll say, oh, can we have the one where? I was like whatever. And it's, for me, that's,

and he sits and giggles like a child. And that's quite magical to see. And we all, well, you know how much I love it. I've told you what to your faces before.

But, but it just works. And when something works like this, I hope it carries on and carries on. I hope you don't do the, well, we've done it all now we're fine old actors

time to move on you know just please keep it going I don't know obviously and you won't be able to say but is there a Christmas special? Yes yes so we are allowed to know well we said it now so whether we're allowed or not you do know that's as good as being allowed there's only a couple of months away

exactly yeah and it's a I'll say this because Matt can't because it's here his and Jim script but it's a great Christmas special yeah it's my favourite really Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's absolutely. So you did it, you and Jim did it, just the two of them. Me and Jim wrote it, well, but in the same way that we just discussed, you know, we had a gift bag.

You gift! These are the Christmas gift. We had a Christmas gift bag. And, yeah, this is an episode that we happened to. It was a pharma. It was a fernem of mason. Oh, you're going to top end. It was full of pickles and all sorts.

Two bottles of one. Two bottles of one. I do love the people. That was absolutely useless for writing an episode. But you have a lovely afternoon. Oh my God. Do you know what's so lovely as well? You know whenever I interview actors and they say,

oh yes, it was marvellous on this show. We all got on like a family. You always think, no, everyone says that. But actually you guys really do get on. And that's why, I mean, whether or not you're putting it on now, I don't think you are. But that's why it works for all of us. because I think on television you can tell if it's not a happy place.

I mean, I think, again, it depends on the tone of the piece. I think with ours because hopefully it's sort of warm and inclusive and there is still that slight sense of pulling down your beard and going, we're having quite a lot of fun here, that that's really hard to fake. And the fact that there are shots in it where we're on the edge of corksing, you know, there's something that you can't really fake about that. So how do people react when you do things? out of the troop.

And I don't mean fellow tropees. I mean, the audience, because everybody thinks of you as a group. I know what it's like because I've done co-hosted shows and people think, oh, you can do something on your own

without Chris or without Terry or whatever. But how is, how do people react to you on your own? Does that make sense? Yeah, I remember Jim had some backlash, didn't he? and he was, what was it, he did a broad church?

Yeah. People said that, that's ruined my child. Yeah. And people were like, you've ruined my child. He was playing a quite a horrible murder suspect, wasn't he? Yeah, yeah.

And they were like, that's the guy from horrible. Why has he done that? I mean, it's sort of, I think when people then see the, again, see the things in context, you can see it's just, it's kind of exercising a different muscle. And I think when we do things on our own,

whether it's intentional or not, They always feel tonally slightly different because they haven't got all of our senses of humour ground into them. But does that, does it worry you? Do you get concerned about people thinking of you as? I think we were all doing stuff before. So it might have changed now actually because ghost has probably cemented us as a troop. I don't know. I did more than more.

But, you know, I did a show before we did horrible histories called Pants Off, Dance Off. Which I think is still the high. I mean, televisionally, that's the one that people talk. People think of, when they think of me, they go pants or dance off, and horrible history. Exactly. And I think, you know, if there's anything that people in the street say, it's when are you going to do more cancer? Is he telling the truth? He's completely made up.

I did it. It's the only thing that's not my story is extraordinary. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is neat to me as well. You also used to do body piercings or body art. I did, no, body jewelry. Body jewelry. As in his bedtime time.

Sorry. No. Larry's TV is an elaborate, what was it called? It was called Pants Off Dance Off, Charlie Brooker, one of the greatest comedy writers of our generation in his screen might guide

of the episode, the first of these shows that I'd written on, said, I think he said, it was not just the worst thing on television, but the worst thing that's ever been created. Wow. And he's right. Did he write it?

Well, no, it was like the show was. It was like on MTV or something. When was there? Oh, I don't know, like 15 years ago. Can we find it? Could we watch it? No, none of it exists. It was all burnt.

And then you think that actually... Is he telling the truth? No, I'm genuinely telling the truth. What was it about? Well, it was like a reality show. And when people went on and went, I know, hello, my name's Olga. I live in me a little sex and I'm going to be taking my clothes off to do you think I'm sexy. But, and...

What? They were strippers? No, they were just people from the street who were gum in. I mean, this is the time it was. Sorry, were you don't. dancing as well. No, no, I had to write. There was then like a kind of...

Although, ironically, he never dances with his pants on. Hello, my name is John. I live in Essex. I'm going to dance now. And how does it end? I'm trying to tell you. Let him finish. There would be like a sort of pastiche Dave Lamb

come down with me voiceover, but not Dave Lamb, like someone else doing a Dave Lamb, I think. And you had to write a voiceover going, oh, well, Hulga seems to be entering into the spirit of this. So I had to write, And this was like series too. I think a friend of mine

had written on the first series and couldn't do the second one. It got two series. Yeah, yeah. Oh my God. Yeah, yeah. But hang on, were you in it? No.

No, I was just writing. I was writing the voice over. So in the joke that we were doing, people were recognizing you for writing. From my writing for a voiceover of Pansoft Angel. That's the bit I was doing. I have got to look this. But they're actually naked.

No, no, they would get as far. as underwear or there would be something put on screen to cover their modesty. But yeah, it genuinely exists. And it would be one of those. So I'd sit in an edit suite in the studio all day and then watch these tapes and write this dialogue. You know, for the voiceover person to record. And then I'd walk out at the end of the day and I'd stand in a street in Camden and consider my life choices. I think I said, I think they thought would you do it?

And I was like, and I like said, well, I know just because everyone always haggles with your day rate. And I was like, I don't know, we'll just say what the day rate is. And my agent went, they'll pay it. And I went, all right. And I turned up. And from the first minute, I was like, I'm not sure about this. And I remember saying to producer, do I have to put my name on this? Like in the credits.

And he went, oh, no one's using their real name in the credits. No. The credit role was like pure fiction. What are you credited as then? I don't know. I can't remember if I did or not. Harry Lickart. Yeah, it was so just the weirdest.

They were so nice. Everyone working on it was so lovely as well. They were all like, yeah, I know. You know, it was like the entire making of this show was like an internal joke. It's terrible, isn't it? Come on, everyone. Anything else anybody wants to admit to doing that you haven't told? You can't talk that?

Can you? Can you? You did doctors? Not quite the same. No, and listen, I loved doctors. I'm not ashamed of doctors at all. It was such a good training for me, actually, because I went to drama school, but you never did any sort of TV training at all.

Which drama school did you go to us? I went to the Rada. The Rada. Yeah. And, yeah, there it is. And so, yeah, I did a year, just over a year there. And I absolutely loved it. I'm from Birmingham, so I was at home.

And all my elderly relatives used to gather together in one house. Lunchtime to watch me. Yeah, it was really cute. Sounds like you wish you were still doing it. Are you not happy? No, I'm really happy. And then I met you guys. That was my next job.

So, and the rest is history. Horrible. History. Matthew, as well for you, you know, wrong... Man. I was saying wrong men. I know, I said wrong men.

Yeah, wrong man. There was an urge to correct the wrongness of that title. Yeah, suddenly. Right, yeah, so wrong man. And that was a huge hit. And then that just went. Why did that go? The co-creator moved to America.

Are you still in touch with that? Unspoken about co-creator. Every now and again, yeah. He's quite busy. Yeah. I don't know whatever happened to him and he went to America. Good luck to him.

He's trying his hand out there. We'll see how it goes. Yeah, that was again, like we had horrible histories was either, no, it wasn't finished, was it? I did that while we were still doing horrible histories.

Yeah, and I think we'd all, as I say, before horrible histories, we'd all done lots of other stuff. So at the time I was doing the wrong man's, it felt like I didn't feel like I was defined by horrible histories or that my career had been defined by it. It's weird how that you don't really know that's happening until afterwards. And I think you'd done two things with James before you started on the romance.

Yeah, so I'd been in Gavin and Stacey and I met him on a film called Telstar. And but as I say, it's sort of, it's kind of after we'd finished doing horrible histories that you started to go, oh hang on, that's the one that's defined my career, it turns out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I don't think anyone go, like, I often think about Brian Cranston because basically Malcolm in the middle defined him. And then he had to just like, he had to just reject comedy for a solid amount of time before Breaking Bad happened.

And then that completely redefined him. But you don't really get to choose. Oh, please. don't redefine yourself. Don't do that. But what I mean is like, if, I guess your question was,

how do people see you when you do stuff? When I did the wrong man's, I don't think that anyone was going, oh, but hang on, he's the horrible histories guy. Yeah. Whereas I think now, any one of us doing something outside,

we might find that there are people who are like, well, hang on, I'm used to seeing you in that tone. And I'm not sure I'm comfortable. seeing you in another tone. But, you know, yeah, Jim did Broadchurch. I did the split and I didn't really get people going, no, I can't believe you in drama.

Well, me and Ben and I have just done something, which is the two of us writing it, but I think it was sort of a slightly subconscious decision that we're in it, but almost like as cameos, because it then gives that. Has that gone out yet? No, that's in November. Soon, isn't it?

Yeah. What is that, Ben? It is called We Are Not Alone. And it's a comedy about, an alien invasion, but it's set after the invasion. It's like we'd always thought to ourselves, what actually happens? Because you get these Hollywood movies. We go, my God, the aliens are here and we've got to fight them.

And then we just thought, well, what if they won? Because they would win. What happens then? Do they stand around and go, right, what do we do now? And it's all about them coming to terms with the fact they've got to live with humans and sort of try and fit in and, you know, try and figure out how we how we operate. It's really, it's really a big sort of deliberate exercise

in which they go, aren't humans pretty stupid actually. Yeah. So we can do, so we can, the aliens can sit around going, hang on, sorry, just remind me about your energy policy again? How do you design? How does that work? What are you burning? Why are you burning that?

It's that with those questions. Hopefully we don't need alias to remind us, but what a great way to talk about. Where's that going out? So it's going out on the 20th of November. It's a pilot. BBC? On Dave.

Oh, Dave. Oh, Dave. Yeah, so it's a feature-length pilot. So we're keeping up fingers across that they commission a series, but they're well within their rights to go, this is awful. Why would they do that? No, but that's so it's a feature-length pilot. So it's...

But that's one of those things where you say that the, the way that we approached it, the roles we take on. I don't know whether it was conscious or not, but the fact that we've kind of remained largely behind the scenes on it. Yeah, I think it was sort of a separate thing, but it was two of us from the gang rather than one of us. It didn't feel like a funny thing, in it? Yeah.

But it felt right to do that. It felt right to just take a step back and not try and try too hard in that, you know, trying to try to be front. I'm going, this is our show! Because we're not like that. No. And it needed young people. You're all very young. Stop. Stop. Even younger, if you can imagine such a thing.

Do you know, okay, so let's end on our love of ghosts. Obviously, I have to ask, and you're not going to be able to say, but let's hope there's going to be more and more and more, I presume you can't say, but would you all be open to keeping this going? Because we do love it. Yeah, we love it. Good. Do you love it as much as we love it? We love it.

Yeah, it's funny. You do fall in love with characters that you write. And we've never gone, we've never done anything that's lasted this long with characters that we've created and a group of characters. You know, Yonderland had Debbie at the centre of it, but then just a, you know, it was just new crazy people. Yeah. And the puppets. Whereas this is something where we've got to know these characters and got to know more and more of their backstories. and yeah, it's, they're real to us.

And the world knows. Does America make their own? It's their own one, not you guys? No. Well, it's American history. So it's, you know. Do you write it? We go back to.

No, they, they've, they bought the format. Right. But it's all been done with our permission. So we're all, um, uh, you know, named on the show and it's all been sort of handed over. As it always is, because these big networks, you know, they've got to work really fast once their pilot gets picked up. They work really, really fast.

They've got to turn around 20 show. You know, it's got to move really, really quickly and be their thing. I think it's today, in fact, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Their second series goes out. And by the time they finish that, they will have made more episodes than we have. But there is some crossover, Matthew. Do you want to talk about that?

I'm in it. You're in it? I'm a little guest role. A little guest role. And it was very sweet of them. And I think, you know, I hope that more of us will sort of get the invitation to go out there and play. Honestly, they are so grateful for the concept, the idea. The gift.

A massive gift to America for this special relationship. It was a massive one. And it costs a lot to shift. across there's a big gist and they unwrapped it and went my goodness

I think we can make this work they didn't say in that accent no one has destroyed the point it might as well use ours

if they're going to do that voice it was better than the accent he had of the girl from Essex which has worried me she was a Polish

descent but she was living in Essex that's what I was going she's definitely stuck in your head guys thank you thank you for ghosts thank you for being

on the podcast but really and for the films and the oh are you going to do a Oh my ghost. You did, Bill. Well, everyone's got a spare 10 mill knocking out.

Yeah, it will cost at least 10 to 15 to 20 million pounds. Well, I mean, we're always looking at stuff. Other stuff to do and whether that would be, you know, live or features or other, you know, features are very tricky to get off the ground. And of course, that's a whole new, that's a whole separate podcast. Gabby, the answer is yes. We'd love it. Okay.

So somebody's listening that wants to give you was at 10, 15, 20. 20 to 25, to 30 to 70 million. A man called Greg Phil was just suddenly woken himself from a dose. They need my money? Well, of course. Well, of course. Fetched my enormous check. Yeah, yeah.

My name is Greg. I'm Greg, Greg, Greg Finn. You are a joy, all of you. Thank you so much, guys. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, thank you so much to that fantastic cast of

Ghosts, I've got to tell you, I completely fell in love with each and every one of them. And of course, you can catch up with the whole of this season and past seasons too on BBC IPlayer. Coming up next week, the multi-talented, multi-voiced Jess Robinson. That Gabby Roslyn podcast is proudly presented to you by Cameo Productions with music by Beth McCari. If you wouldn't mind, could you give us a like? a follow, a subscribe, and please leave a review. We read them all and love to see what you've got to say. See you next week.