That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Tom Read Wilson

Episode Date: April 25, 2022

In this episode Gaby chats with Tom Read Wilson. They talk words, dads, musicals and even have a sing-song! He chats about how he got cast in 'Celebs Go Dating' via his audition on 'The Voice' and his time on 'Britain’s Best Home Cook' and 'Mary Berry’s Fantastic Feasts'. He also tells Gaby all about his new books for both children and adults, 'Every Word Tells a Story'. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to That Gabby Rosin podcast, part of the A-Cast Creator Network. Tom Reid Wilson is my guest this week. He's an utterly joyous person. We talk words, dads, musicals. Yes, we couldn't resist having a little sing-along together. He chats about how he got cast in celebs go dating via his audition on The Voice and his glorious time on Britain's best home cook and Mary Berry's fantastic feasts. If there were more people like Tom, the world.

would be a much kind of place. He doesn't sit in judgment on anyone and we could all learn a huge amount if we just took time to listen to Tom's wisdom. Or now we can read his wisdom because he's going to have two books out, a kid's book and an adult book and he talks about those two.

Oh, and did I mention we talk about musicals? Please can I ask you a favour? Would you mind following and subscribing, please? By clicking the follow or subscribe button. This is completely and utterly free. by the way, and you can also rate and review on Apple Podcasts, which is the purple app on your iPhone or iPad. Simply scroll down to the bottom of all of the episodes.

I know there have been quite a few now. And you'll see the stars where you can tap and rate and also please write a review. Thank you so much. Hello, Tom. Hello, darling. How are you? Oh, my lovely Tom. Oh, it's so lovely to have you dancing on my tympanic membrane.

I can see your countenance so clearly. I'm just closing my eyes and imagining you. You are so beautiful. Are you surrounded by cushions and pillows and do-lots? Yes, I am. I'm going to tell you, I've got the blue sleeping bag that the kids take on school camp. I've got an old flowery zip-up sort of duvet sleeping bag for when the kids were little and their friends used to come and stay.

I've got my eldest daughter's duvet behind me, and I've got all the cushions off the bed to my left, and I'm sitting on two chairs. How about you? Well, my microphone is being propped up by my little William Morris pillow, and then I've got another pillow underneath the laptop, and then I've got a lovely old tapestry that my granny did behind me, and I'm on a share.

So I think I've got enough. padding and cushioning. I'm pretty well inspected. So how I'm starting this is my youngest daughter wants me to ask you something because as you know, the family adore you. You are officially a member of the family. But, okay, she wants me to ask you this.

Do you know the word flocky noki nahap? Oh, gosh, I don't, she says it. Oh, I. Floky no hefifidication. or something. Yes, it's supposed to be the longest word alongside anti-disestablishmentarianism, isn't it? Yes. And I know both of those words, but I don't know what the former means.

Okay, so I've got, I think I can say it, flocking no quillipification. That's it. So I'm going to, yes, but she wants you to do it for one of your words of the day. Oh, that would be brilliant. But can you imagine the etymology of that? There must be about 73 roots in it. No, I can't even, I don't know how. It's her most, she gets so excited about it because she just says,

I don't think Tom will know it. And she's been telling me this for days. Right. But my dad, my dad always used to cite that as the longest word in the English language because he was an English teacher. And then I have a feeling, and I might be wrong, and people must contradict me, but I have a feeling that anti-disestablishmentarianism is ever so slightly longer. But I may well be wrong because I'm often wrong.

Never, ever. Do you know, is it funny, I play a word game. My father's about to be 87 and my youngest is 14 and I'm 33 and will be forever. But the three of us, when my oldest girl is at university, so the three of us play the word game every week. So we choose a word and then you have to make lots of words out of one word. And it's really good for my dad's brain. And I really want my dad to keep his mind going.

And he loves word games. He loves Scrabble, all of that. Oh, gosh. Boy, after my own heart. But my youngest always gets the killer word. And she gets really chuffed that she finds the killer word. It's so she loves it. Well, well, I think our dads must be rather alike because my dad, he just, he was an English teacher before he retired.

And he just adores words and very often we'll meet up and he'll pause in the middle of the street and start reading off synonyms for the last word that he just said. And I remember the last. the last time it happened, he said, well, my children, this has been lovely but fleeting, brief, ephemeral. And he just went on and on with synonyms. And so you can imagine as sproglets ingesting all of this, how many polysyllibles we were exposed to, because he would stop in his tracks. And it was amazing because you'd see him sort of hypnotized by his own gray cells. for a minute. But that, I mean, you've got, because was it your grandfather and your great grandfather were all teachers? Yes. And I suppose that profession is responsible for my existence,

really, because I grew up first on Bradfield College campus. And my maternal grandfather was a French master. My maternal great-grandfather was a master. there and that's how my granny and my grandpa met. And my dad was an English teacher at the same school. And that's how they met. So it was most extraordinary. It happened for three generations. But it was a bit of an accident with my parents. And it probably... What do you mean? What do you mean? Well, it sort of... My mum was ripe for romance. And my dad was sort of sort of bumbling along a bit of a confirmed bachelor, really,

and was very caught up in it all. And I think they perhaps should never have getting married. But I'm glad that they were. And now I think they're both tickled by it because they were such extraordinarily divergent characters, which can, of course, work sometimes. But in their case, it was a very, it was. was the odd couple, you know, and it was never meant to be. But once they separated and we got to know them both individually, we were endlessly tickled by their mismatch. And I think so were they. And they,

they became great friends after that. Oh, how wonderful. Yes, yes. But they, I mean, they couldn't be more different. The closest thing, and I think it's why I love the musical so much, is my fair lady, because my dad was this sort of bookish, much older man, and my mum was this sort of fiery, glamorous young thing. And it was a kind of tempestuous, but wonderful and very entertaining relationship. I mean, it was most diverting as a child to watch them interact. In what way? What are your memories of that?

My dad was just sort of, I guess he was the kind of pragmatic person in the household. And my mum was sort of, she was very theatrical and quite fiery and very, very dynamic. And it just was a very curious balance. And I feel like a very strange. cocktail of both of them. Yes. The way you've described them, that's exactly, I mean, a very beautiful cocktail. I'm going to take the word strange away and replace it with a beautiful cocktail because the fiery actor in you and yet this great knowledge of the English language and joy of the English language. So the two haven't created, the two of them have created you, which

and you sound like that perfect cocktailism. Well, I always think that my kind of naughtiness and my anthracite twinkle, which occasionally flares out, comes from mummy. And then my slightly, and I emphasise the word slightly, more sensible side comes from daddy. But she was a wonderful actress too.

I mean, I remember seeing her, because these schools that I grew up in, Bradfield and Pangborn, they're now both mixed, but I think I'm right in saying that when they met, they were both boys' schools. And so they would ask sort of younger spouses of faculty or daughters of faculty to play parts in plays. And I remember seeing my mom in black comedy. that wonderful play that Maggie Smith did and she was brilliant and I was really knee-high to a grasshopper so it's a nebulous memory.

But then I saw her when I was a bit older at Pangbourne playing Desdemona and she was electrifying. She was absolutely wonderful. So that is exactly where you get that side of you. I mean, it's interesting because I think a lot of people, you know, people first saw you, I suppose on the voice. Oh, you were so wonderful. Exceituate the positive. Oh, get me.

I can't believe you've seen it. Well, yes, completely, of course. Of course. Well, it's our mantra, isn't it? Accentuate the positive. Absolutely. And what you did, you lit up the screen when you came out. And obviously, your word of the day or social media, which is huge.

And, you know, the most engaging thing. I love looking. enough, I mean, apart from the fact that I always want to know what the word is and my kids always do as well. And my husband, who's not on social media, but he'll say to me, oh, what's Tom's word today? Oh, sorry, I haven't shown you. Oh, that I love. No, seriously, that's true. But what I love is the comments you get below from people from all walks of life.

And it's you're bringing the English language to life for them. But sorry, what I'm going back to is that they don't know that they see you as a present. and as this sort of this beautiful character. But they don't know your musical theatre that you've trained as an actor at Rose Bruford. They don't know that side of you. Well, yes. And of course, that's how we first met, because I was training at the Royal Academy of Music. And I know that when you did, when Harry met Sally in Chicago, you had voice lessons from the Dwighten of voice, Mary Hammond.

And I always feel like saying Dame Mary. I know she should be. She's not yet. Yes, from our heads to someone. With her bright red hair and all of her jewels. Lame red hair and jangling. Exactly, yes. And she was, it was her penultimate year when I was at the Academy.

And she did this wonderful class called the integration of acting and song. And I used to bake for it every week. So I would rate very tall, as they said in musical, with Mary because she liked that. And we did a big Christmas concert at the Actors Church, and you were hosting it. I was, and I remember it so well. It was for an AIDS charity and HIV and AIDS charity.

And she was there, and I was so thrilled that she was there, because she really is a character. Well, she greeted you with a B-flat. You know, suddenly there was this sort of penetrating B-flat from the back of the, I was going to say, the stalls, the pews in the actors church. And you spun round and said, oh, Mary. Could only be Mary. It could only be. But then, so you performed there beautifully, you all, you sung. And then we were lucky enough to meet on the moonwalk, another charity.

You do so much for charity. but on the moonwalk for breast cancer charities. And we sung musical theatre from midnight to four in the morning walking around London. Well, I remember you and I saying what would be apropos? What about a moon medley?

And then we were both completely flawed by just how many songs there are about moons. I mean, we did Moon River and by the light of the silvery moon. By the light of the silvery moon. I want to a spoon, one a spoon, one a spoon to my honey I'll croon loves tune. Oh, you've just got such a lovely voice. But it's in my boots today.

You're boots in beautifully. All of this, though, is, it's very interesting because when people know that we're friends, they'll say, oh, you mean the guy from celebs go dating? And what that did was it catapulted you to an audience that would have never, ever known you. It couldn't be further from the audience that already knew you, really, could it? No, and you're right. And it was complete accident rather than design in sort of three phases, I suppose, because I was doing a play at that lovely Theatre Royal Windsor.

and it was very dodgy old Francis Derbridge murder mystery and I was a very unlikely suspect. Oh, what was it called? It was called Sweet Revenge. Love. But you know he used to write radio plays and he never really modified them for the stage. So you would have things like Marion would come in and saying,

gosh, these suitcases I'm carrying a heavy. And you'd sort of think, you know, the audience can see them now. You don't really need to say that. But anyway, so I was doing that, and I sort of thought, this is silly. I'm very lucky to be working, but I'm sort of bumbling along, not really penetrating the upper echelars. And I've got to do something bold and intrepid, which is not in my nature. And so I decided on a whim to audition for the voice. And I did.

And you probably know this, Gabby, but it's quite different from the exes. factor. And so far as they do all of their auditions, good, bad and indifferent on screen, whereas the voice do a great many behind the scenes. I think I had about six over the course of that summer and I had to kind of steal away from the show and do the audition, come back and wait and wait and not tell a soul. And finally, I got on screen before the judges and I flopped terribly, but the show itself was incredibly kind to me because on the day to sort of warn me, they said, you know, because you've flopped,

if you're lucky, you'll get your whole song, if you're unlucky, you'll end up on the cutting room floor. And I said, okay, fine. And then I watched it. And there was eight minutes of me. I mean, my whole interview, my whole backstory, my whole exchange with the judges, indeed the song as well.

And because of that, a wonderful lady named Frankie Nicol was putting together celebs go dating, and they knew they wanted two love gurus. And then a third character who was sort of inexpert, but very kind to people, sort of an ear-should-a-bosom-type role. And then she thought of me, and so she asked me to go to line pictures. and I remember very, very greenly, sort of sitting, talking to camera for an hour, and that was it. Wow.

The thing that really sold it to me was that they said, you can't really go wrong because we don't know what we want this element of the show to be. So you may end up being cut as though you were never there, cut out totally. Or, you know, if we like, little bits and pieces, we'll sieve the golden nuggets and we'll put those in. And so it was really after the fact that I discovered what was useful to them and what they wanted

and what the edit would tickled by and what they weren't. And so then I learned. I sort of cut my teeth that way. But it's a great way to do it. No, but it really is a great way to learn. And obviously with somebody that had every confidence in you, I mean, you know, you're, when you stand up and accept every BAFTA that will be coming to you and every TV award and your Oscar and your Emmys and all the rest of it in the future, you'll always have to thank her because she, she put you there. And that's so lovely to name her. She is amazing, Frankie, because she does an enormous amount of casting. and her antennae shoot-up. For example, she was responsible for casting Kemp in Love Island, and he had been on celebs go dating.

And Ken is quite diminutive. And a lot of the girls that series were particularly tall. And so they tended to gravitate towards people of their height. And Frankie just knew that he was special. And so she thought, okay, well, I'm sort of pleased in a way that they didn't pick him because I'm going to save him for something else because she's very, very good at spotting people. And I love that. There is a benevolence to that kind of casting.

Yeah, and it's wonderful, though, that I love people that, a proper casting agent, oh, they're very valuable people, they really are. If they're listening to this, I really do mean that. because I don't need to be cast, thank goodness, in anything. But so that's not me. I'm not blowing smoke up anybody's bottom. I literally mean that. I'd love to do it for a while, though.

Oh, goodness me. I'd love to cast. I don't know if you know this, but that's my sister's job. And there's never been any nepotism. Actually, she specialises in casting children. And she did all the casting for what would your kid do? And I love watching her cast because the reason she's so good at casting children is that she becomes a kind of tabular rasa for the child to paint on. So I think very often the casting people are enormously charismatic and gregarious.

And that's how they get that sort of ping pong in a casting tape. But Miranda's sort of the other way. She's like a great lung fishing line and she draws people out. And I think that's why she's so effective with young people, because they'll start off rather shyly, and then all of their timid nature melts away as she bolsters them. And it's a wonderful exercise to see. I've seen her do it a couple of times, and it's dazzling to me.

Well, that she gets that obviously from the teacher element throughout. Yes, you know, I've never thought of that, but you're quite right. Yes, it is. I suppose it's that sort of munificent, benevolent steering. Yes, and patient. You're quite right. I've never made that connection. Yeah, I've thought of something that Tom hasn't thought of. That's so true.

That's so true, darling. I just want to go back to celibicode dating because as I was saying, it's one of the, you know, I hate the expression guilty pleasure and you and I've had this conversation before. I hate it when people say, oh, my guilty pleasure is, whatever. Why can't people just, say, oh, I enjoy watching that.

And I remember there was a show years ago called Blind Date. And nobody admitted that they watched Blind Date. And I was, I then, I was very lucky to do a Saturday night show for four years on the BBC called Whatever You Want. And people used to say, oh, no, no, no, I don't watch that, but I love that moment that that child won the ice cream thing. And I love that moment that, but I don't watch it. And I just think, what? It is funny. And it's the same with

celebs go dating that I'll you know, I'll mention you and so I'm going to say, oh, he's that guy that does that show where the, you know, the celebrities who I don't know

who they are. They date, but I don't know what it's called. And I'll say, oh, celebs go dating. Yeah, I don't watch it. But did you see that guy from Tawi?

Oh, yeah, oh, how did you see it? Oh, I don't know, it must have been on in the background. It's funny, isn't it? Is that, what is it? Is that a snobbing thing? I guess. so. I guess so. And it's a funny thing because actually, funny enough, talking about the early

days of celebs go dating, I am genuinely one of those people. I mean, I would watch Question Time and the odd Attenborough documentary. You sound like my husband. And I remember saying to the gentleman and whose baby it was, I said, do you mind? Is it awful? Should I do my homework and know everybody as they cross the threshold? And he said, no, please never do your homework because we're quite tickled by the fact that you're not sure whether they're from a documentary or whatever it might be. And so I didn't in those days. But now, by default, and just through celebs go dating, I do know a lot of the people because there's a lot of interconnectivity. But I still have never watched a single episode of Taui or Made in Chelsea.

But I love that because it means that when they come to us, I have no preconceptions at all. They really are a tabular rasa and I can make my opinions based on what I see. see and and and their conversations with me and I think it's probably the best way. And what I love is that your one your real friendship that you have with you have the most eclectic group of friends you know from from the Tawi people to to wonderful Harriet Thorpe who is a great dame I would just adore her you know she's a great dame of theatre and of television and was in abfab and all sorts so you know so you know, You know, you've got across the board and there's no snobbishness or no, you don't sit in judgment.

It's a very, very rare thing to have somebody who doesn't sit in judgment. And you are one of those people. You don't judge anybody from their background, their accent, their color, their religion, their sexuality. If more people could be, and I've said this to your face, if more people could be like you, this world would be a much. much, much kinder, friendly or warmer place. But where does that come from? Was that something that you just, it's just in you? Or is it something you feel very passionate about?

I mean, you are like that, and I hope you admit that of yourself. Well, I think, I think really that you waste so much time and you waste so much of people. if you're not looking for everything that's delicious about them, you know, because to sort of say I have a type of person, that is absolutely baffling to me because there are all kinds of intelligence, there are all kinds of insight. And I think the rich are your tapestry,

the more effulgent threads pop out at you and you think, gosh, if I'd never met that person, I'd never have had that perspective. And to fill your life with people that are so like-minded that you're looking at one tiny little patch of that tapestry I think is very short-sighted and I think it doesn't serve you. You know, I think the rich pageant of life has so much to offer. We must never limit ourselves or box ourselves off or in or anything like that. You love a conversation there as well.

And I mean, you're like, you know, know, I'm fascinated by people, as are you. But I don't believe that anybody's boring. I think everybody has a story if people will just listen. Oh, absolutely. No, absolutely. And I think that everything, I think when you see somebody and you see the way they interact and behave and realize that there are myriad, tiny gossamer threads that led to that

complete person. And I'm one of those people, and I think you are too, darling, that just wants to sort of pick at them a little bit, tug at them and sort of see which one had what kind of impact and when and where. I just find it interminably fascinating. People are fascinating. I think that's why people can sit in cafe windows and be hypnotized by people walking past and sort of thinking, I wonder why he's slightly slumped. I wonder why he walks leading. from the sternum. It's part of being an actor too, isn't it? You just sort of watch people and you think, oh, look at that person. Their toes are always upturned as they land on the floor.

And they sort of have a benign smile as they move about. And you sort of think, gosh, I'm a have-a-go anthropologist, really, because humanity in all its facets and hues is endlessly, endlessly diverting. I could do it all day, though. I could literally sit and watch and listen other people all day, and I wouldn't have, I wouldn't think it was a waste of a day at all. No, no, no, no, no. And very often if I see celebs go dating back,

there will be great swathes of stuff that I don't remember because I was sort of sitting hypnotized by somebody, just listening completely agog, you know? And I go, oh, yes, oh yes. Do you know, it's very interesting. I think another thing that you have is that I think anybody would trust you with anything. Do you feel that responsibility? Oh, gosh, I am a bottomless well of other people's secrets.

But do you feel that that's quite a heavy thing to carry around? I think it was when I was a child because I had I held all of my parents secrets and most of my family secrets. And I guess because I was the eldest, the bucks sort of stopped with me in a curious way. But now I don't mind so much. In fact, I'm always very, very flattered when somebody picks me to be their counsel and their sucker, really, I find it enormously flattering that they should think that I could be able to help or just be the best person to listen in that particular moment. I love that. And it's a lovely

responsibility and it is a responsibility, but it's one of the nicer ones in life, I think. Yes, actually, that's right. One of the responsibilities you don't like, which are the ones you that you're not interested in. Any brown envelope that comes through the door, I could happily do without. Oh, I'm with you there. I'm with you there. Talking of responsibility as well, that's where I want to come back to your sister, because you're super close and as you are to your beautiful nephews.

Oh, my beautiful, beautiful nephews. Well, the thing is, they were born in. in Woolwich and I was living in South London at the time and I would have Artie I mean they called me the third parent and I also have three godchildren in Maswell Hill and they call me the third parent and I spent most of my free time in those days anyway zipping about all over London to take them on adventures and it sounds enormously altruistic I honestly it was was the most selfish thing because I loved it. And I even loved the yucky stuff.

Like I love, I love changing nappies. I was thinking it's, it's the... You can give them back and you don't have to do it constantly. Well, that's true. That is very true. I've not had to do it around the clock. But I always think it's the only gift a baby can give you, you know, is the filling of their nappy.

And I think, oh, thank you, Dan. I'm glad you decided to do it with me. Just remind me when I'm an old lady to come to you, go, oh, Tom. I have a gift. No, but I just, I adore them. And once a week, at least once a week, Artie and I would spend a whole day in London and we'd go to the Science Museum and the B&A and we'd see children's shows.

In fact, I took him to the theatre for the first time when he was 10 months old to see. an adaptation of his favorite book, The Very Hungry Caterpillar. And he was the most, he couldn't be more different to his little brother, Albi, who was the most placid baby I've ever met. But Artie was so active. He was so high octane right from the beginning. And this was the first time he was ever still. And at 10 months old, he had 10 words.

And we went, one of which was wow. And we went into the theater. and he looked up at the gods and he just went, at 10 months, he just went, wow. And I thought, oh, I've got him. I've got him. That's just giving me goosebumps. That's incredible. It was amazing. And for the first time in his life, it was designed for children, this adaptation. And it was only 45 minutes long, therefore. And he was. stock still for the whole thing. And it was the first time in his whole 10 months that he'd been

still. And it was, it was dazzling. It was dazzling. And he, he adores it, Gabby. In fact, not that long ago, just before the pandemic, actually, we went to see Mary Poppins and at the Prince Edward Theatre. Wonderful. And just before, no, it was in the interval, he looked up at the box and he said, Uncle Tom, is that a very small theater? And I thought, isn't that clever? Because you know how it sort of, it does almost look like a Prossarch? And I thought, gosh, this sort of fascination in the anatomy of the theatre is starting to develop too. And he was fascinated when Bert walked up the Prossarch and tap danced on the seat. I mean, as you would be, but it was the kind of architectural nature of it. He was kind of fascinated by it.

Such a wonderful show. Oh, isn't it brilliant? We did sing that as well. Walking past Mary Poppins, we all sung Super Califragilistic and it was one of my happiness. Oh, yes. If you say it loud enough,

you'll always sound precocious. Can you do it backwards, darling? No, you can. Go on. You know, you can say it backwards, which is Doshia sannie ex-bistic, Fratricati Rupus, but that's getting a bit too far, don't you?

Yes. So, when the cat has got your tongue is no need for dismay. I love it. I love it. Do you know, it's very interesting. I have this conversation all the time at home because my husband, of all the ridiculous mismatches, my husband does not get musical theatre. We took him to, my girls who are 20 and 14, I asked the 14 year old the other day, what's your favourite band?

Because I was going into Virgin and they were talking about a new band. And she said, why? So I said, well, have you heard of blah, blah? And she said, no, mum, all I want to listen to is musical theatre. And my big girl is the same. She only listens to musical theatre. And same with me. And I work out to musical theatre.

But my husband doesn't get it. And we took him to 42nd Street with Bonnie Langford. And he walked away from that and he said, okay, that I get. That is musical theatre. But he doesn't get the other stuff, I suppose. But you see, this. this is the difficulty with saying I don't like musicals because saying I don't like musicals is very much like saying I don't like food because they're so different, you know, and there are

musicals that I can't stand. I'm not a big fan of jukebox musicals because I'm so, so profoundly appreciative of the artistry of having a scene and then very, very carefully segueing into a song almost seamlessly that that sings the subtext of the preceding scene, you know, that all that all that amazing subtext that you get in a play, the character is allowed to tell the audience in a musical soliloquy. And I think that is art at the very highest form. And if it's just sort of dialogue, clunk song, to me, that's not necessarily a musical. very, very snobby. But, you know, I think sometimes when people say,

I don't like musicals, they have legitimately had a very bad experience of a bad musical. But it's like when Follies was on at the National, which is sort of perfect. And I saw it four times. And there were people that I had seen, you know, who go to the National all the time,

and they go 99% of the world. the time for plays and you knew that they were there because it was it was part of the national season and that they were coming back because they recognized something really superlative and it's it's funny because when you know musicals intimately you sort of look for things like is it a perfect rhyme is that song completely bespoke to character or could any character have sung it um is it singing the subtext of the scene do they have really singular voice is all of those things. But I think everybody, when confronted with a musical that does that,

and there are some brilliant modern ones too, like Hamilton and Come From Away that do that. Oh, come from away. Oh, dazzling. Wow. And people just know, they might not know why, but they know that it's next level brilliant, you know? Yeah, I agree. I absolutely agree. I mean, for me, musicals are, I, that's what I'd go and say.

see and I love going to see plays. Don't get me wrong, but I will probably choose, if I'm honest with myself, I would choose a musical before a play. So if I had to go to, you know, I was invited to two plays, two shows on one night. I think I would choose the musical over the play, purely because I disappear into them. I just love them. I don't, I don't, but I don't like a bad musical. So I won't name, but there's a couple that are on at the moment in town, which I think are just trying to be what they're not. But anyway, I'm not going to name them because I've never seen anything horrible.

You can probably guess which one of them is. But also, dear Evan Hanson, now that's an incredible musical. And in the Heights, which the film, if you haven't seen the film, oh my word, it's just... I haven't seen the film. Oh, we'll go together again.

I watch it again and again and again. It's just... Brilliant, but it's brought musical theatre to a different level. And people are now watching it. I mean, you know, Hamilton, people can say, what, rap for a whole musical? Musical now people are playing with that. And I think that's the same with television, with plays, with everything. We've got to be able to embrace a newness.

Well, I think Hamilton, I think Hamilton in many ways is also a love letter to how musicals first came to being because there's everything. in Hamilton from sort of jazz to rap, to even some classical musical influences. And if you think about the early days of musicals, people were sort of saying, well, now, what is this? Is it opera? Is it jazz? Is it, what is this musical style? And it was a kind of wonderful melange of all of those things. And it made a very singular, sort of by the 40s, very easily identifiable Broadway sound, a big lush Broadway sound. But at the beginning, people sort of were retraining their ears and they were saying it's not quite operetta. It's not, it's not quite

jazz. I'm not sure. And I love that Hamilton does that all over again. It sort of says, oh, well, we can be a bit of everything. We can be a kind of delicious jumble because we've got this undergirding of incredible cleverness, you know. He's a clever man. He really is Lin-Manuel. He is a very clever man, isn't he? Back to you and your wonderful career, because obviously we can see you on television at the moment with Mary Berry's Fantastic Feast.

Was that a joy to film? Oh gosh, it was so incredibly joyous because that show really is all about altruism. That's the kernel of the whole thing. I mean, Mary finds somebody that is a deeply altruistic person, and in our case it was a lovely Welsh lady called Soraya, who runs a youth charity. And then she takes three people that want to surprise them

and helps them with their scant, at best, knowledge of cookery, to create a bespoke feast for that person to surprise them. So they really are pouring all of their now and all of their affection and all of their thanks into their dish. And we had three delicious guys. Their Mark and Callum, who felt utterly indebted to Soraya. And they tried so hard, not without hiccups, a few burnt scone bottoms on the way, but they got there.

They got there with aplomb. Do you know, and it was, it's such a warm, warm show. It's a show that sort of wraps you in a really lovely, warm, cake-like hug. Oh, but that's the perfect description. I think it's so true because I think that, you know, I think many people that's lives are pure altruism, as Surreyas really is, I think they almost forget themselves, you know. I think they plow on and they work relentlessly and tirelessly. And their reward is seeing the kind of beaming countenances of the people that they've helped along the way. But they seek no personal reward.

They really don't. And so I think when one comes to them, it's such an ineffable surprise. And she was truly dazzled. She was really dazzled by all that they did for her. Well, I recommend everybody watch it on IPlayer because it's just, it's lovely. It's beautiful. Yes, Kleenex at the ready, I think. Oh, yes.

I mean, I needed it. I was liberally leaky. Librily leaky. You and you're leaking. You do like to do. You and your leaks. It's very funny. I do.

I do. I'm like a geyser. Well, the boy that took his finger out of the dyke, you know. Oh, let's just leave that hanging in the air. But the other thing as well is now they're announced and I knew about them. But this is just fantastic. Your books. So you could not just one, but two.

Two. Tom read Wilson books, one for kids and one for adults, although everybody could read them all. Oh, Gabby, well, it's so dear to mention them. I know that I've been harping on about them for so long to you privately, but it's because they've been in gestation for such a long time. I mean, I've been scribbling away for 18 months. I mean, it's been such a mammoth task, but also such a labour of love because, you know, my dad really instilled this passion for language that we discussed before. And, I mean, I remember passing a shop window with him, a beautiful, very festive window display. And he said, what a lovely window display.

window, van der Alga, the wind's eye, nothing to do with glass, everything to do with ventilation. And I remember eight or whatever I was thinking, oh my goodness, and realizing that every word tells a story. And indeed, that's the title of the children's book. Every word tells a story. And it goes through the alphabet from A to Z and uses poetry to unpick the etymology, hopefully by stealth without the listener really realizing that they're learning the constituent parts of a word. I can give you an example if you like. Yes, please. A is Ardvark. Ardvarks like pigs have a very long snout, helpful when termites and ants are about. They snuffle at night time for all their worth and use their strong paws for digging the earth. In Dutch Afrikaans, we are given a clue by splitting their name from one into two.

Ard is the earth and piggy is vark, for only an earth pig eats ants in the dark. Oh, Tom, I've got goosebumps. That's just wonderful, and I didn't know that. Now I know it, and I just, oh, that's not for kids, it's for everybody. Oh, well, I hope, well, from your lips to someone's ears, Gabby, I do hope so. And then the adult book just has all the smut

that I couldn't put in the children's book. The other side of Tom Reed Wilson. But they're joyful. But you can also, you can order them already. So you might not get them in your hand, but you can order them. Yes, that's available for free order, aren't there? Yes, in this amazing digital world

where things sort of come out virtually about six months before and so you can make sure that it lands in your lap on day of publication. Congratulations on the books. Thank you for mentioning them, darling. And then let's go back, if I may, to Celebrity Best Home Cook. Now, you were wonderful on that.

And you brought a whole new audience to the knowing you and knowing Tom Reed Wilson. Oh, darling, that was so lovely. You did enjoy it, didn't you? You really enjoyed it. Because you see, we filmed it coming out of the first lockdown. And you could see in all of our. our faces when we went into our kind of cubicle marquee. Oh, people, people. And Ed and I would do the crossword every day. And Ed Byrne and I had this wonderful game where we played six degrees

of separation and he would say something like Samuel L Jackson and I would say Margaret Rutherford and he had to link them by co-stars, which sometimes took us an age. And we'd just, And Desire adored, and we went to the theatre together last week, and they've all remained such chums because we bonded so furiously because of those circumstances. And also we were sharing tips and hints. And if one of our home ex had said, oh, it's a good idea to roll pastry between two pieces of parchment.

We'd tell our chums, you know, it really was a kind of sharing learning circle. You know, it was very, very munificent. It wasn't sort of compested in a horrible way at all. And it was just lovely. And I'm still so fond of them all. And cooking. You love cooking. I love cooking.

And I always say, I think I get this from my maternal granny. I put a big dollop of love in every dish. I'm not a culinary wizard by any means, but I cook with enormous passion and love, and I always hope that that might dance on the tongue a bit or on the palate afterwards, and they might be able to detect it as my most secret in creed. Well, not secret at all, actually.

I sing it from rooftops. But I always say to my brother, I put a big dollop of love in this, and he goes, hmm, delicious. Perfect place for me to ask you what makes you. you laugh because this is what we always ask in the podcast, what makes you properly belly laugh. So you laugh for everything, don't you? Well, I do like a bit of filth.

I do like it as smart to have to say. Oh, God. And also, I'm very drawn to very dry humor and comedians because I think I'm so interminably moist, you know. I just sort of, I cannot, I cannot achieve dryness of. any kind. So anyone that's sort of very brittle and, and slightly macabre has me in stitches. In fact, the spouse of my best friend and mother of my Godkids is incredibly dark and incredibly dry. And when people meet him for the first time, they're never quite sure if he's joking. And that has me

bursting at the scenes. I mean, I make puddle. I've always been a rather leaky individual. Both ends, actually. My bladder's far too close to my eyes as well. Like at the Garrick, darling, when Judy did, our revels now I ended, these are actors, as I told you, our spirits. And I was in a puddle on my seat. I think it was a little bit of both, actually, on that day.

That was incredible. We're talking about because we went to see Judy and Finty, and Sammy. Yes. That was a wonderful evening. And then that divine surprise and do you know what I found so funny was that Judy, she said, well, I think the only thing that's appropriate for the end of the evening is Prospero's speech. Our revels now have ended, which is the speech that sort of says, you know, it's, it reminds me of it's only a paper moon where you sort of say, you know, it's all, it's all of Oh, go and sing that. End this with you singing that. Oh, well, I think this is the perfect song about the arts because it basically says everything that I list is pretend, but it won't be

pretend anymore if you just believe in me. So it's only a paper moon floating over a cardboard sea, but it wouldn't be make believe if you'll believe in. me. Yes, it's only a canvas sky hanging over a muslin tree, but it wouldn't be make-believe if you'll believe in me. Tom Reed Wilson, thank you. Oh, darling, thank you so much. I've loved it. Thanks so much for listening. Coming up next week, comedian Paul Chowdry. That Gabby Roslyn podcast is proudly produced by cameo productions and music by Beth Macari. Could you please tap the follow or subscribe button? And thank you so much for your amazing reviews. We honestly read every single one of them and they mean the world to us. Thank you so much for listening.