That Triathlon Life Podcast - Bilateral breathing in triathlon, pro triathletes racing ultras, and more!

Episode Date: November 7, 2024

This week we get ready for Eric's first Ultra: a 50 km race at Smith Rock, OR. We got some Bike Tech with Eric discussing bedding in brakes, and torque wrenches, and then we moved on to your general triathlon questions. This week we discussed:Minimum gear requirements for Unbound GravelDoes bilateral breathing have a place in triathlon?Storing a bike for the winterWhy wear a swim cap?PAULA RAPID FIRE 🔥Forced time away from triathlon - and how to handle itHow to handle a big DNF, especially with family presentA big thank you to our podcast supporters who keep the podcast alive! To submit a question for the podcast and to become a podcast supporter, head over to ThatTriathlonLife.com/podcast

Hey everyone, welcome to that triathlon life podcast. I'm Eric Loggerstrom. I'm Paula Finley. I'm Nick Goldstone. You have stumbled in to our triathlon related podcast. Paul and I are both professional triathletes. Nick is a professional musician, great friend of ours, amateur triathlet. And this is the audio arm of our little brand that we have. We have a website. We do some merchandise. We have a YouTube channel. And the latest thing that we have is actually an app, which is a little brand that we have. fantastic and you can talk amongst yourself, everybody who feels as though TTL, that triathlon life represents how they feel about the sport. So welcome. The bulk of the show is we talk

about questions that we get from listeners, which is fantastic. So thank you. If you send in questions, we couldn't do without you. And I think we're actually starting off today with some special things that Nick and Paula have prepared. Wow, Eric. Did you rehearse that intro? Made it up on the spot. He's like getting so good at intros, it's like the spelling bee. We're going to have to like... He's like a savant for the intros. Two hours into a bike ride.

Quick, make up an intro. Yeah, that's right. Okay, so this is both pre-race week for both of you. Paula, you're going to be racing in Dubai in the United Arab Emirates. Paul, you couldn't be racing further away. Eric, you couldn't be racing closer. That's not true. I could potentially ride my bike to the start of the 100-mile mountain bike race.

that I did earlier this year. Now I'm doing another long adventure, the 50K at Smith Rock. That is about a 40-minute drive. But that is, yes, about as close as it gets. Pretty luxuries. Have you done any more reconning since last week? So yeah, I did one additional workout out there.

I've kept on with the normal things that I was, business as usual, but I did go out there and I did three times the beginning like 6K of the run course. And I tried to do it at the course. record pace because I can see that on Strabo. And does that include Misery Ridge? Yes, this is up and over Misery Ridge and back down the backside and then you loop back to

the bottom. So I did that three times sort of tempo, race pace style to see what that felt like. And it felt pretty good. So I'm kind of going back and forth. Do I try to cue off of relatively what that course record pace is or do I run with whoever's around me and just try to enjoy whatever pace that brings? Haven't decided yet. Yeah, do we know?

So for 70.3, you are very much as a pro affected by what the other professionals around you are doing. Do we know if that is also the case for ultra running or is it a different beast and you kind of just like, nope, I got to stick to what my plan is. Dude, I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on running a 50K, but yes, there's not an aerodynamic thing like there's on the bike. To me, the biggest thing is that it would be cool to just run with people and there are guys, here who have done quite a few 50Ks before and just queuing off of them and seeing how they do it. And that's a little bit more fun than just a four-hour time trial. Yeah. Yeah, of course.

And I have, like I said, I could be dropped up to first climb. I don't know for sure. But anyway, I just, I tried to see what that pace felt like last weekend. What do you plan on bringing with you during the race? Like, what are you going to wear and what are you going to bring with you? It'll be pretty cold in the morning. So I'm going to try to layer pretty well, stuff that I, could take off, put in my ultra, you know, running backpack or whatever. But that first loop,

that's like 7K, I'm going to do that without anything. And then somebody can hand me my ultra backpack, running backpack at 7K in. And I'll have all my bottles. And we'll have two water bottles in there. And I'll have one extra water bottle that's just kind of like rolled up with powder inside of it. And I'll try to fill that up with water, you know, 30K in or something. Right. Okay. Well, I'm just so curious to hear how differently this, how different this feel from 70.3 racing, but also from mountain bike racing. Because I wonder if it's pretty similar

to your long mountain bike races in terms of vibes and what is required of you. My guess is that's going to feel similarly mentally grind where you're like, this is getting extremely uncomfortable. I can keep going.

I don't know if I want to. It's very uncomfortable. It's not like a searing pain. It's just this dull. Yeah. But I think it's going to be very, a very achy, like a very, yeah, like you would feel in the half marathon at the end of 70.3, but times two because you've got your feet for so long.

That's my guess. Paul, are you going to be out on course at any point or are you going to be resting? I don't know what I'm doing. I think you should probably be training. There's not a lot of opportunities to watch this. I think I'll come to the start and, like, you know, set you guys off. And then, I don't know, I have some hard workouts that day. But it's a week out from my race in Dubai, which is usually kind of our,

last main session. But I don't know, I've been like kind of training in the afternoon now because it's so cold in the morning. So I'll definitely come watch some of it. Yeah. Unfortunately, the crew stations, like the aid stations that are at mile or that are like kilometer 20 and 30 and 40 or whatever, roughly, you can't really get in there. They're pretty remote. So it's not a thing where like Western States, we could be at every aid station that Heather went to and helper and everything. Unfortunately, it's not that interactive, so it'll be a bit more like watching an Iron Man

where just bye, we'll see you in four hours. Those hills in there are only, like, how are the people getting there that are setting up the aid stations? Because it seems like... You might be able to get a permit to drive up Burma Road, would be my guess.

Or like go up in a gator or something for the sake of, you know, for this thing, but certainly not normally. But yeah. Anyway, like, it's going to be really cool. I'm hoping to put out a YouTube video around the time this podcast comes out with all the training preparation that I've done. And then I'm going to hoping to put out a pretty high quality YouTube video after the race with the actual recap. Okay, so shifting over to you, Paula, you're flying to Dubai on Monday after a weekend of fun in the trails.

This is probably too much information, but just like an example of the travel logistic gymnastics you have to do. to be a triathlet but my trip to Beijing and onward to Europe way back in the summer was paid for by the race so I was in Europe and I needed to get home obviously

but booking a one way ticket from Europe is so much more expensive than booking a round trip somewhere so I basically booked like my trip home from Europe in September and my round trip was back to Dubai for this race so I was like thinking ahead

but then I kind of like tricky You're just chasing your tail because then I needed to book a one-way trip back from Dubai. So it's just, I don't know, whatever. This is too much information. But yes, to get there, I go Denver, Frankfurt, Dubai. Oh, you go that way? I don't know why I assume you'd go west.

I mean, I don't know. That was the option. The other, and on the way back, I go Dubai, San Francisco, Redmond. Oh, so you do go the other. Going around the world. I don't know. That's so cool. I mean, none of it is cool.

And I don't know what's better because the Dubai, San Francisco flight is like over 16 hours. So you're just on the flight forever. Versus the other flight you get off in Frankfurt and you get a couple hours to like reset before the six hour flight down to Dubai. So I'll be able to tell you which one sucks more after all this. Yeah. Okay. So you get off the plane and what are you, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's damage control for your body. Do you, you don't go for a run. Do you, what do you try to do? At the airport?

No, just like you get there. Upon arrival. Oh, I land so late. So go to bed. And I'm hoping I have the same experience as China where I'm like, I get to fly business. So I'm sleeping the entire way. And then I sleep when I get there and then I wake up feeling like a million bucks. Which is good because I'm not getting there very early. In fact, when I looked at like my timing, I was like, what was I thinking back in the summer and getting there so late? But, the training there is super challenging. Like you're at the hotel you can barely run from the door. You're just riding the trainer.

Logistically, it's better, I think, to be in your home environment as long as you can. But the downside is it's cold here. And I'm doing heat training in the bathroom to try to get ready for this race, which starts at 1.30 p.m. in Dubai. Oh, my God. And we'll be over 30 Celsius. And I'm, I don't know. I'm trying to like accept it because everyone's doing it,

but I'm real mad that like for the well-being of us, we're starting in the middle of the day. It's absolutely crazy to me. What is, is there any explanation? It's probably like a broadcast thing or I have no idea, but. I mean, it stinks for us. If it's 1.30 there, it's 1.30 in the morning for us.

Yeah, you're going to be sleeping the whole time. I don't care about that part. I just think that racing in the heat of the day, the peak of the heat of the day is a little bit dangerous. and just setting us up for a death march and whatever. Maybe I'm being whining about it. But I'm trying to do anything, every thing I can here to prepare for that. But it's super challenging when you live in the Northern Hemisphere to be racing in November somewhere that's like the surface of the sun.

So for Kona, for Iron Man World Championships, people will sometimes go out there several weeks in advance to try to acclimate and train there. Is anyone doing that for the T-100 grand final, which is this race that you know of? Yeah, people are going early. Which again, I'm like, frick, I should have gone early. But then I don't want to be in Dubai for two weeks. So I'm at peace with my decision. Yeah, you just said how the training is not great. I mean.

There's probably places like out of the city center that are fine. But I don't know. Kona's one thing, but this is like the race number seven of the year of the series. and it's a lot to go all in and travel overseas for two plus weeks. Yeah. Yeah. Arguable easier for Europe-based people who just fly six hours to get there. It's a little bit quicker.

Yeah, of course. But then they've had to come out this way. Oh, yeah, it all balances out. I'm not saying it's more fair either way. Yeah, they had to come to Vegas. So I don't know. We were talking about this in Vegas. Who has it better?

The Europe-based people are the North American-based people. and it's like splitting hairs. I don't know. We've all traveled for certain races more than others. Well, yeah, this is the last T-100 race of the year, the grand final, so everyone will be there. I wish we could watch, but I think that's going to be a real early morning to be able to watch it.

And when we'll wake up, we'll just have the results. I might do it. I might do it. Oof. I don't have anything else. I mean, you know what? I'm going to be like probably still barely walking after doing this 50K. Right.

You know what? Yolo, might as well wake up. I'll do it if you do it. I mean, Nick does not have to. Yeah, dude, it'll be fun. You're awake at that time, half the time anyway. That's true. What's another couple hours of doing a week?

It's true. I have a little housekeeping thing. When are we opening applications for the Devo team? And when are we putting these hoodies on sale? They're not actually hoodies. They are jackets. If anybody remembers, jackets that we did a year ago that have like a high neck and they're just they're an incredible

I love and they're so thick such high quality they're an incredible nice warm fabric brushed on the inside super nice and soft those are going to be launched on the 16th right around there paula will be in Dubai um then the devo team applications as well as the team TTL kit orders that whole thing that we do that is going to be kicking off on December 1st so if you're not If you're not familiar with that, what we do is we sell a whole bunch of kits to anybody who wants to get one. This year we will have a couple more options for things. We'll have a higher end speed suit that you can race in. Cycling kit will be doing more of those adventure hoodies in two different color ways because we did a poll.

There's a dark one and a lighter one. And the money that we raised from that is going to go help support the development team that we sponsor. So development team, we pick out six athletes. This will be our third year doing it. Up and coming athletes. Isn't it four athletes? Five? Never mind.

Yeah. It's between four and six athletes, but we pick out athletes that we feel like giving a little bit of our expertise and sharing their story with TTR here on the podcast on YouTube and everywhere that we can, we'll give them a little bit extra bump and hopefully help them make it to make the jump to turning pro. So keep an eye out for that.

Let's keep it rolling with Eric here and do some long-away and delayed bike tech with Eric. Bike Tech with Eric. Okay, so we have two bike tech with Eric questions here. New to disc brakes would love a rundown of betting in and Eric's preferred method on road slash TT bikes. So Eric, what is betting in? Basically the gist of betting in.

The way that disc brakes work is it's not actually just your disc brake compound rubbing against metal that slows down your bike. you need to transfer some of the pad material that's on the actual brake pads onto the disc brake surface. And then it's those, it's the brake pads rubbing against the brake pad material that is bedded in to the disc brake rotor. So if you were to go out... I don't think I knew that. Yeah. So if you were to go out and just for the very first time, try to stop as quickly as you could.

It's not going to stop. Your disc brakes are not going to stop as well as after going through the bed-in process. So betting in typically is you were like riding back and forth on the street or you could be going in a straight line if you got some time and a lot of street to work with. And you want to get up to speed and then slow yourself down almost to the point of stopping, but not all the way to the point of stopping repeatedly. Do this like five or six times. Just slow all the way down, hold on to the brakes, but don't actually come to a full stop. Basically, you're trying to get a very even coating of this brake material stuck in the brake, disc brake, road. but not actually get it, you know, a big gunk spot in any one spot from really coming to a full stop.

No, it would be funny if we did a poll of like, who knew this and who didn't know this? Because I had no idea, personally. Nick didn't either. I didn't realize that the material was instrumental in creating the stopping power. I didn't realize that. That's, that is why it's important to not just change break compounds out of the blue. You know, if you go from one break counter and a break. pad compound to another brake pad compound on the same rotor, it can cause some issues. Okay, so I have a question asking for a friend, of course not myself. Let's say the rear disc brake on a bike was extremely loud and feels like it's losing braking power.

But the front is fine. What would you do in that situation? I mean, if you just wanted to make sure you could just start completely over. You get new brake paths and new rotor. Front and back. No, just in the back. The front's fine. You could obviously start by replacing those brake pads in the back. One thing you could do is you take isopyl alcohol and you could rub basically like try to clean off that rotor because you could just have some gel or some sort of junk of some sort on there that's messing with the breaking performance. Sometimes what I'll do is I'll sand down the brake pads, the existing brake pads a little bit. I know like sometimes in bike shops it'll actually flame them like with a blow torch. Yes, I remember saying that, yeah.

I don't have a blow torch. So I just, I just sand them down and blow them off and then like I'll clean the rotors with an hyperest probal alcohol. That's my kind of thing to do. And then if I, not me, if someone else, this hypothetical person did successfully clean off the breaking surface off of the breaking, whatever, residue off of the disc, would you then to bed it again? You know what? Just, I guess personally, if it was me, I would probably do the same thing. But like, it's not often then break to a full stop. Anyway, maybe just like, do

it three or four times just to be super, super sure. Why not? Yeah. It hurt anything. Great. Great question. Great question. Great answer. Thanks, Eric. Okay. Next, bike tech with Eric question here. Hello, quick bike tech question. How important is it to have a torque wrench so I don't overtighten things more than the recommended Newton meter level. I've done okay in life just tightening things by feel so far, but just curious about your take on it. Love the podcast. Going for my first full Iron Man in three weeks and chatty. This is an old question, obviously. But I pulled it from the archives. Cheers, Don. So how important is it and does it depend on where on the bike? Does it depend on that material? Like, what are we thinking? What are we going to do here? How important?

7.2 on a scale from 1 to 10 important. On the Richter scale. I would do it. Just think about how devastating it would be if you did crack something. Imagine you tighten your seat post collar and it cracks your whole frame and you need to replace that frame because you were pretty darn sure that your forearm was super accurate. I don't think torque hunches are that expensive, right? Like what's a, just like the park tool,

Thor Crunch cost, maybe $100. Oh, you can get them for less than that for like a whole set. Mine was like $40 or something and it has like every little attachment. Why not? Relative to a $2,500 frame replacement or something? Is there any part that you feel, I'm just thinking like pedals? Is there any part that you feel like, no, torque crunch is not necessary every time you take this thing on and off? Yeah, pedals.

Or like cassette or something. Pedals, cassette. I don't really care about the through axles. Basically, the stem bolts, any of the stem bolts, the seat post bolt, binder bolt, those are the important ones. Spider. I mean, I stripped some spider ones because they're so sensitive on my bike. Like on your crank? I broke the head off of the.

Frank spider? Yeah, exactly. So yeah, do it. I definitely do it. Do it. You know what I want. Plus it makes you feel cool. You're like, I'm doing science.

High importance. Tools are cool. When are we doing Paula's segment? Paul's secret segment? In a few questions. These questions are submitted by our listeners. You can submit your own questions at Thattriathlonlife.com slash podcast, where you can also become a beloved podcast supporter.

We love our podcast supporters. Thank you so much. This week we're going to do a little video segment of one of the questions as well that the podcast supporters will get in their inbox. And we are also, Eric and I, before this podcast, we're gearing up to do some extra special, giveaways for some cool orca gear that's coming up and you will have to be a podcast supporter to be eligible for that. But we'll get into that in a future episode when we're more dialed on that.

This week, we picked a random podcast supporter to win our new Orca swim caps, which I just got in the mail today. They'll be shipping from me and they are siak. I love them. I have a favorite one myself, but I'm curious to see what people will like the most. Because there's four different colorways. I like the teal stencil on the white. I just think it's kind of cool. But I wonder if it's just because I've seen the color logo so much that I like the, like, to me, the evolution of it is just the stencil logo. Yeah.

I don't know. I've been going to go back and forth. I felt like the color, the full color, was just going to be the instant winner. But then Paula today was wearing the blue cap with the white stencil on it. With a white, yeah. Maybe I had to go back to that one. That one's looking. Basically just if Paula wears it, I think it's pretty cool.

You can get the whole set for. an affordable cost. Yeah, I get the whole set. No, actually we did set that up. I'm super psyched on this. I emailed Danny, my best friend and web guy. I was like,

can we like make a cap? Like a three pack? Like if people get all three, like three. Well, there's, you can get four, but like if you do three, you get a discount on.

It's like 15% for we get in the three pack. So you don't have to choose. Oh, that's cool. Wow. We are just like moving up in the tech world so hard right now.

It's exciting. Momentum is strong. When the app came out, it was the top 200 social media app. I think we cracked like the top 60 in Canada social media apps. Wow, guys. Because our Canada crew is strong. Okay, well, I was getting to our winner this week, a random podcast supporter winner, is Jared Gentile. Congratulations, Jared.

I'm going to be sending you a swim cap. So just email us with the address you want us to send it to, and we'll send it out to you right away. Congratulations. And thank you, Jared. Podcast brought to you by Jared. Yeah, this podcast is sponsored by Jared. First question is from Bill. Hi, Paula, Eric, Nick and Flynn.

Let's keep it short for Paula. You talk a lot about minimum gear requirements for TT and Road, but what about for gravel? I just entered the lottery for the 200-miler at Unbound Gravel, but I'm so unknowledgeable about gravel gear. Should I put different wheels on my road bike? Do I need a new bike? Would love your thoughts on new wheels versus new bike.

What specs to look for in the used gravel bike market and what other gear might be key. I've heard the mechanical issues can be a lot more intense than a standard flat kit could handle. Thanks so much, Bill, from Austin. You guys, I think we're more qualified to answer medical advice than we are to answer this. Oh, I totally disagree.

I think there's so much here that could be answered. We've never done unbound. We don't know what the minimum requirements are for it. Well, okay, but I think doing it with a road bike is a scary idea. Oh, yeah. You need a gravel bike. There's no way where you're going to do that. You need a gravel bike, minimum requirement.

I'm going to say if like 45C tires. That's a muddy race. I can't think of a road bike that can fit 45C tires. That wasn't like maybe one of the super new endurance ones or something. You want to grab a bike with a ton of clearance because there's a ton of mud there. And I would think I would want to run 45C is definitely tubeless, ideally hookless. Ideally, the new 303 explorers from SRAM that are aerodynamic and so fast. that those, I'm obsessed with those wheels.

They ride so nice. It's not even just about the wheels fitting, though. Like a lot of the time, the geometry is much different on a gravel bike, for comfort, for stability, for all the things that come with gravel. How much do you feel the difference between your tarmac and your diverge in terms of geometry, Paula? When I'm sitting on it, it fits similar, but it's the way that it like handles and rides and the stiffness going over bumps, like all that is much more comfortable on the diverge.

It's a very, very stable bike. It feels like you could take your hands off the bars at 70 miles an hour and it would just track perfectly straight. And the same thing, you can take your hands off the bars on gravel and it just feels rock solid. Okay, so yes, none of us have done this race, but Eric and Paul, Eric specifically, you guys have done long gravel rides

and stuff goes wrong. So what do you bring with you on a long gravel ride that you wouldn't necessarily think to bring with you on a long road ride? Well, definitely, so Dina plugs. They've got a, I think it's called a racer kit, and that is a thing that you just jab into your tire and you pull it back out,

and all of a sudden there's this little rubber plug that's in the hole that you just got, and then you hit the tire with some CO2. Ideally, you have a shit ton of sealant in there, so in case you get multiple flats, You can seal all of them. And then I would still also, maybe you carry like two CO2s for a race this long. I'm just making this up.

And then I would also carry a hand pump. Like for me, having a hand pump is just ultimate peace of mind. I have a little silka makes a really cool one. And then I have a little Lazine, Lysine one that has like a bendy tube on the end of it. There's just something that's, you know, like eight inches long, six inches long. Just like emergency status if the CO2s are gone. I guess you could bring a tube but I haven't put a tube in a tire

I wonder if I'm bound I know the pros have their aid people waiting for them at the aid stations but there's got to be neutral aid where they might have backup tubes and stuff I'm not really sure if you can get there yeah so you just might be walking for a while yeah true I don't know if there's like a roaming

aid big thing is nutrition yeah so some sort of definitely a camelback hydration pack of some sort, like one and a half liters, two and a half, two liters, I would say minimum. It's not very common to see races where people are cycling races where people are using hydration packs.

No. But for this race, it is common. Yeah, depending on how fast or slow you are, you could be a long time between aid stations for you. And even the pros rice with a hydration pack. And I feel like at least coming from mountain biking, like that's much easier to take a drink without potentially crashing and taking your hands off the bars too much. So I'd probably have a couple bottles on the frame plus the hydration pack.

One option, if you don't like wearing a backpack, Castelli has this really cool jersey that I used for High Cascades that can actually hold a hydration pack in it. If you have a crew, the master move is you have a crew person like Paul that did for the High Cascades, they just give you your next hydration bladder and you slide that into your jersey. If you have the Castelli one, or you put it a new back. thing into your backpack. Cool.

Good luck. This is cool. This is cool. This makes me want to do this race. It's not like a bicycle hot spot necessarily. Right. The percentage of people that ride bikes versus the percentage of people

that don't ride bikes and might be excited about the race. Very cool, Bill. Good luck. That race is awesome. That is just like such a cannonball into the deep end. I don't know much about gravel

and I signed up for the biggest gravel race on Earth. I know. I know. I know, that's wild. I mean, he didn't really, we didn't really say what to look for in a used gravel bike. Oh, right. But do you feel like it's less, I mean, less picky than when you're buying a used road bike? I mean, if it says specialized on the down tube, you're probably dialed.

That's right. I mean, I usually, like with a gravel bike, you could have big nicks, big, like, dense chunks out of the frame from somebody, like, hitting a rock or something like that. Make sure the derailer hangar isn't bent off. And just, I would be, like, more concerned with frame cracks from, impacts than I would be on a road bike. Yeah, yeah, fair. Okay, good luck, Bill. Next question is not from Bill, but from Will. Hey guys, I'm a swimmer only by way of triathlon.

Oh, I get that. And have always been self-coached. As such, it has always made sense to me to emphasize bilateral breathing, to avoid the asymmetries that come with unilateral approach. All of my swim training, every session is always done breathing every third stroke. However, during racing, the intensity sometimes forces me into breathing on one side. Although I always feel like a good gauge of proper swim pacing is being able to breathe on both sides. Am I crazy and am I compromising my race performance?

If so, should I be practicing unilateral breathing during practice too? Love you guys and keep it up. This is so interesting. At least to me, it's so interesting. But what do you think, Eric, have you ever thought I should be bilateral breathing right now? otherwise I'm not pacing it right. No. Do you ever bilateral breathe?

I forget you've answered this, but I don't remember your answer. No. I mean, occasionally, just for shits and giggles, or if there's a specific set, sometimes we like to do a thing where it's like,

do a 50 breathing every three and do a 50 breathing every five and do a 50 breathing every seven. And that's just more of a being comfortable with the uncomfortableness of not having enough air. That's a hypoxic drill. That's not a bilateral breathing drill.

Like the thing about it, saying that was the extent of it growing up swimming i think that as a young swimmer like in my you know nine 10 11 years old coaches would say to bilateral breathe just so you could like not get overdeveloped on one side or compensate or have injuries and i think that's the idea behind bilateral breathing but if you watch swimmers in the olympics even a lot of them don't bilateral breathe they'll only breathe to one side i definitely have a stronger side where it's faster if i'm breathing to the right versus the left. So I think bilateral breathing,

especially in the sport of triathlon, is like a bit of an unnecessary thing to think about. In fact, when we were training in Flagstaff doing hard 50s, Paulo was telling us to breathe more. Like if we breathed anything more than every two strokes, he would tell us to get more oxygen in and breathe more. Because ultimately, it's just the first part of a very long race.

And if you're restricting your oxygen intake, the domino effect throughout the whole race is not good. Like, why not breathe more if you can? So I would say throw bilateral breathing out the window. Yeah, you are compromising your performance if you're trying intentionally to breathe less. Yeah. I think it doesn't hurt to throw in some bilateral breathing and the warm-up and stuff, but I would probably just go with when you're doing race intensity in the pool, at least,

always breathe to the side that you're best up. Yeah, I mean, it's actually good to be able to breathe to both sides. So whether you're breathing every two on one side or the other side, like you could switch that up a little bit because depending on where you are in a pontoon start or if the sun is shining in your eyes or if there's waves coming from one direction, I think when you're swimming open water, being able to switch without it being completely foreign to you is really important. But in terms of just speed and going fast and having one side and only breathing every two is fine. what I will do sometimes is breathe every single stroke. That's kind of insane. I've heard of this. How do you do that?

It seems impossible. It feels so inconvenient. It's a bit head up. This is like head up. It's so choppy that you didn't get a breath and you're like got to get one over here and then you go back to the other side. It's not like a seven in a row kind of a thing. Yeah. Yeah.

The other thing about breathing every two is in the case where you are breathing a lot more frequently, it's important to be an efficient breather and not breathing completely dismantle your stroke and your elbow drops and you're not catching water on that side. In order to be able to breathe that often, you do have to have a really good stroke during the breath stroke. But you obviously see when you get underwater shots of the Olympic swimmers that are breathing every other stroke. They're very, very fast at it, obviously, but it could be slower if every time you breathe, you're like dropping your elbow and your wrist and everything. That's all I'll say on that.

That's cool. That's all I have to say about that. I love it. I remember thinking exactly the same thing as well. I should be bilateral breathing because it's symmetrical and I don't want to develop

an asymmetry in my stroke. It's very logical. And you notice all the fast people don't do that. But also, are you swimming 20,000 yards a day for 10 years from the age of six? Of course.

I think you probably won't develop like a wildly, obnoxiously large lat on one side. I feel pretty good. No. Right. Right. Right. Right. Of course. And if so, so be it. Okay. Next question here is from Olivia, from Montreal. Hi, TTL fam. I'm looking for advice on the right way to store my bikes for winter.

Since I have a kicker bike and I live in Quebec, I most likely won't be using them from now until April. I don't ride tubeless, so the sealant thing isn't an issue. Is there anything else I need to do? Thank you for everything you do for the community. Olivia. interesting not riding your bike for like six months I you know honestly there's really nothing you have to do yeah I agree it's just like on the other end when you go to ride it again

maybe make sure that the chain's intact and you know if you're storing it in like minus 30 or something yeah yeah if you're storing it in a really cold thing like the grease could be have gotten weird but it should be like warm when you take it back out And then the other thing I guess would be is if you have mechanical shifting and brakes, like those, it's called cable stretch, but it's really the housing compacting. That could have happened and like the gears might not shift as well.

So don't expect to just pull that bike out and have it shift perfectly after having sat for six months. Wait a second. Wait a second. You're telling me that the cables themselves don't stretch. It's the housing that changes length. That is another mind-blowing thing. Dude, how, what was the last conversation that you and I had about this, that it took you like months to wrap your head around? Embarrassing. Embarrassing how I just couldn't figure it out.

It was, it was, it had to do with the cables. Yes, it was with cables. It was its housing. And I just couldn't understand how you could change the length of the housing. And that would change the case. I can't even explain it, but I don't get it. It was a barrel adjuster in housing. It was a barrel adjuster situation.

That's exactly what it was. Which I understand. It broke my brain. You kind of have to have like touched this and worked on it to really grasp the mechanical concept. So the barrel just changes the housing, but the cable length stays the same. How does that change anything? But I do. Yes, exactly.

There's more slack in the, I do get it. It's hard to explain without having it. So bikes these days have no cables. Well, I mean, some people's bikes do. But new bikes have, yeah, like, electronic shifting. Oh, okay. So electronic shifting eliminates the need for these so-called cables. You just need, you're probably going to have to charge your battery. Yeah. Okay, what are we even answering right now? How to store your bike in Quebec. No, you just ride your kick, ride your

kicker bike. Don't store it in the sun. I think that it'll be okay. They don't live in California. Well, I just like the, I feel like the tires like kind of like become brittle. Yeah, maybe if you're like storing it outdoors in like Dubai. Yeah, just don't. Not indoors in Quebec in the winter. Yeah. Great. Good luck for the upcoming winter.

Yeah. Stay warm. Join the T.T.L. Zwift Club. Okay. Next question here is from David in Surrey, BC. New swag looks awesome, especially the different color options for the swim caps. My question is, why should I wear a swim cap at all? I've only started swimming in the last few years when I gotten to try and only tip

wear one on race day when they make us. I'm a dude with short hair, so never really understood the point other than making new friends at the pool with the cool TTL logos on my head, which I feel like it's a big part of it, by the way. So anyway, moving on. Will it make me faster? Will I look more legit? Will it fix my terrible swim stroke and general lack of buoyancy? Thanks for all the great content and Thursday morning fun, David. Okay, I want to start by saying that as a person who needs all the help they can get, the swim cap 100% does make me feel. like I am going faster and that my form is better. I'm not saying that.

It actually does feel like it. And I feel confident that I am measurably faster with the swim cap. And I have short slash no hair. So I don't know. Am I crazy? Do you guys feel this? It feels. Swimming is all feels.

So I don't think you're crazy. Is there a measurable difference? Yes. Is there a feelable speed? increment, I don't know, but the feeling is undeniable. So that is important. And if that's how you feel, then do it. You don't feel like it's you're more buoyant when you have the swim cap versus not?

Your head is more buoyant? There's not air trapped inside of it between your dome and the swim cap. I think it's, I think that TTL orchid caps are extremely buoyant tested in the lab to increase buoyancy. Let's come up with the way to test this. And we're not just, Nick didn't just answer like that in order to increase sales. He truly believes it. I stand by the products. For people with long hair, men or women. Absolutely necessity.

Impossible to answer this question. I've like, the only time I've tried swimming without a swim cap is when I'm like, you know, splashing around in the waves in Los Cabos after the race. And it feels like you got a big mop on your head. So I couldn't imagine not using it. But certainly swim caps are more aerodynamic, hydrodynamic than no caps. But we're talking like

if you want to win the 100 freestyle at the Olympics. Yeah. That type of hydrodynamics. Not like you're trying to get out of the water a couple minutes quicker

in a 70.3. Like that's not how much faster it. It's not going to be minutes. Man, if you have like long flowing locks. Oh yeah, for sure if you have long flowing loss, but not if you're Nick.

No. Hey, hey, let's cool it. For me, Like I actually, I do like the feeling of swimming without a swim cap, but these days I prefer to have my hair not be brittle green straw. Yeah, actually, that's a good reason for this person that is questioning whether to wear one is it protects your hair quite a lot from the chlorine. Yeah. Much better for your hair.

If you don't care, you don't care. That's a good enough reason in its own. Yeah, that's the reason I do it. Wow, Eric really cares about it. No, I just, your hair gets so nasty. Yep. So David asked, will it make me faster? Yes.

Will I look more legit? Yes, for sure, by the way. For sure, the swim cap makes you look more legit. And will it fix my terrible swim stroke and general lack of buoyancy? Also, yes. So it's a slam dunk. You got to do it. You definitely get the three pack, dude.

Get the three pack. You earned it, David. Put them all on at the same time. Clearly, this is the person who doesn't even own that many. So he needs three. And the star of a penny, potentially, just like old race ones. If you're someone with long hair and your swim caps breaks before you swim, it's like catastrophic. Oh, yeah.

You can't swim. You got to borrow one or buy one. So, buy the three back. Or be the hero when someone else's swim cap breaks. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay, are we doing my segment yet or what? Your segment is here.

I programmed into the show notes right now. It says rapid fire. Okay, so Paula, at the beginning of the show, before we started recording, said that she wanted to do some rapid fire. So Paula has come up with 10 questions for Eric and myself, and we have to answer them as quickly as possible. How do we want to do this?

You just scream it out when you have the answer. Your answer ready. Okay. I'm just going to be casual about it. Not overthink it. And also, some of these are not, like, they could potentially be more of a deep dive than a rapid fire,

but I really want you guys to answer rapidly. Okay. First thing that comes to mind. You've always been a real, real stickler for that. You do not like it when we control our philosophical wanderings. No waxing poetic. Okay. Number one. What was your first job? I think flag football referee. Guitar, guitar lessons. Teaching guitar lessons. Yeah. Okay. My first official job, I worked at Abercrombie and Fitch as a sales person on the sales floor. But you made money as the guitar teacher before that. Yeah. Under the table.

Don't listen, Uncle Sam. And Eric, you made money doing refereeing. Yeah, very little money, but some money. Okay, number two. What were you refereeing, Eric? Sorry, Paula. Not allowing for other questions. B, who do you text the most?

Eric, obviously. Yeah, it would be a tie between. Probably the two of you, probably the two of you together. It's my main text thread. Yeah, Nick and Danny. Three, describe your style in one word. I'm wearing it. T-TL, baby.

hat and sweater. What I see when I walk in the closet. I would say Eric's is like easy, stylish. These are two words, though. Number four, how often do you floss? Once a week. Five days a week for me. Monday, Tuesday, once a Thursday, Friday, I floss, and I take the weekends off.

You take the weekends off of flossing? Yeah, I take the weekends off. It's got to feel nice. Just straight into bed. Your life. Okay, Eric, this needs to change. You're getting roasted. And we are upping that number for sure.

You should have lied, Eric. I'm just going to say I've got fantastic teeth and dentist always raves about them. Yeah, but. I also don't have any gum recession problems. Number five. What is one thing you wish you enjoyed more? Time management, not procrastinating. Okay.

That's a good one. Organizational stuff. Yes, organizing. You call are so good at. Yeah. I love being organized. but organizing is really hard for me. Okay.

Number six, can you name more than 10 U.S. presidents? We do it together. We have to go separately. You want to tag team at? Eric, you did well in school. Okay, I'll go first. Jefferson, Jackson, Lincoln, Eisenhower, Bush, Senior, Bush Jr.,

Obama, Trump, Biden. That's 10. Wow. Wow, you guys are such smart. Americans? Well, I feel like we cheated. There was all the ones that everyone knows. I don't know a lot. Like Garfield, I wouldn't have remembered FDR Nixon. As a Canadian, I honestly don't think I could have done that. So, good job. Next, do you have your own Netflix account or do you use someone else's? I use my sisters. Oops. Yeah. Oh, we use Eric's moms. My parents used mine for like four years and then now we've been using theirs for like three years. Yeah. We aren't quite adults yet.

But I did the nice thing and I paid for my mom's Spotify account because I want her to be able to listen to music on Spotify. Nice. So you're equal. Are you what you're saying? We're equal. Yeah. We're equal. We're equal.

We're equal. We're equal. Yeah. Number seven. Now we're even mom. Anything you did for me. It's over. What was your last impulse buy?

Oh, I bought a pair of Viore pants that I'm in love with that I wear every day. And I just walked into the store and was like, okay, fine, I'll get them. Is that really an impulse buy? I don't know. And when was it? I'd say it's an impulse buy. That's definitely not something you need. No, a month ago.

Okay, okay. Yeah, my impulse buy is usually, I would say, more have to do with food that I probably don't need to be eating. Like a triple chocolate chiro. That's fair. That is an impulse buy. Yeah. The one I can think of is those sunglasses that have just a cord instead of. like solid.

Oh yeah, those are cool. I would just, yeah, we went in a surf shop and I have to have those. Number nine, would you rather travel to the past or to the future? Past. I would really love to be able to drive down 101 in California in like 1910. Yeah, I agree. Like a place that's very developed now to see what it was like back down. That would be so cool.

Yeah. Oh, that's great. I want to say future just because of the kind of morbid curiosity. curiosity of where all this goes. Yeah, that's the thing. You could definitely not like what you find. Yeah, I don't want to go to the future. I think that's the fear.

Last question before this gets too deep. If Flynn could talk, what would he say about you? I just want to make you proud and thank you for being so accommodating. No, it's not what you wish he would say about you. It's what you think he would actually say about you. I think he would also be like up a little bit apologetic about I know I seem manic at times and not appreciative but I really am I just have a hard

I can't speak English and Right As much as I try Wow that's sweet I think to me he'd say Dude you train a lot for being this slow It's true he would say that Is this in like your whole life? Why are you dragging ass all the time

You're holding the group back It also says, Uncle Nick, where do you go for all the times when I don't see you? Where do you freaking live? You're here. I don't understand. You show up in these random places in the world and I'm there too. I don't get it. Do you exist when you're not here?

Okay, well done, Paula. That was fun. That was good one. Thanks. Kyle Glass is texting me from ProTry News. What's he saying? He actually just sent two pictures of the swim caps. He bought them with his own money.

He didn't ask us to send them for free. And he says, which one of these colors will make me swim fast? And I said, yes, they are. Thanks, TTL fanboy. He said, I just like paying to be friends with you guys. Yeah. Oh, gosh. Very nice, Kyle.

He did get, he got the distensal ones. Well, yeah, just keep buying swim caps and we'll keep being friends with you in one month increments. In fact, Kyle, if you subscribe. to the podcast. You can have permanent friendship. Conditional. Locked. Locked.

Great. Okay. Next question is from Emma. Paula, Eric, Nick and Flynn, have any of you been in the position where you had to take time away from competing in sports? I've been on endurance athlete

for almost 20 years, first a rower, now doing triathlons, and cycling and running races. Going through a forced rest period by my doctors due to soft tissue injuries that wouldn't go away likely due to the fact

that I've never taken true time off. if you have what did you do during the time away how did you deal with the mental aspect p.s your podcast kept me company when my boyfriend who was also triathly and i were long distance and my german short-haired pointer river enjoyed it too emma cute oh i've been i've been pretty blessed to not have a lot of injuries i think i've you know just like kind of injury not an injury prone person but the injuries that i have had um the most recent one was when i broke my foot I got a stress fracture, I had escape from Alcatraz, and I had to take whatever that, you know, like the 12 weeks that a stress fracture takes to heal. And I sort of treat it as you're saying, like, hey, my body needs this.

I am going to catch up on all the things that I have been depriving myself of because I've been so focused trying to be a professional trathlete and do a good job. So I went camping with my dad. My dad and I did some fun filming things that just I wouldn't have been able to take time out of my, you know, normal training schedule to do, and I sort of just made a plan and plotted what I was going to do when I came back. But I was very not stressed about it. I thought, this is my first vacation in five years. I'm just going to enjoy it. And when my foot's ready to go, I'll be mentally ready to go. I'm not stressed out. Yeah, that's good. I feel like that might be rare amongst pro triathletes, or do you think? I agree. Okay, Paula, what do you think about that whole situation and then for yourself as

well. Yeah, I think a lot of people when they're injured or forced to take time off for an issue, they'll do whatever they can that doesn't aggravate the issue. And for triathletes, there's always one sport out of three, at least, that you can do to cross-train. Or it's not even cross-trading because you're training for a very specific discipline and a charathlon. So it's a slippery slope, it's a little dangerous. It's not like getting injured as a runner where then you, like, go water run at the pool or you ride the spin bike and you're just trying to keep. keep you some aerobic fitness. It's when you're injured running, you can full on go and do a swim program or ride extra hard. And for me, that's what I've done every time I'm hurt. And most of them

are running injuries and I'll just go like double down on the other two. And if I had one thing, I could go back in time and tell my like teenager self, it's to do more of the resting thing when you're injured versus trying to make up for it in the other sports. And your bar, needs rest to heal whatever the injury is. So if you're just completely running it down by training too much in other arenas, it's not going to be able to heal as quickly. So I think that's what I constantly did growing up. And still like kind of do a bit, but I just haven't been injured for a while.

So yeah, I don't know. I forget what the question was, but those are two different answers. It's also like how do you mentally handle it? Is there any kind of mantra? That's how I mentally handle it. is I go and I train hard in the other sports. That's not a healthy way, but that's just how I think a lot of triathletes manage it. Yeah, I have tried to frame it as this is my number one priority right now is to get healthy.

Does what I'm about to do, if it's go for a bike ride or go for a swim or try to test it on the run, does this make me heal faster? Because until the point where I can go out the door and run, no problem, I'm not in training mode. I'm in heel is the number one thing. So that helped me a bit. And also when I broke my foot, it hurt to ride the bike for a, for like a little while. I couldn't do it even.

So I was more, okay, I guess I'll like fix that thing on the car. I guess I'll like learn that thing on video editing and try to pick up a couple little mini hobbies in the meantime. Well, that was the question I was going to ask both of you. Do you think in general triathletes could benefit from having. another area of passion that they have, that they can kind of also nurse along with a triathlon thing,

and this is a time to give yourself more to that? Or do you think the mind of the triathlete is, it's hopeless. They're so focused on triathlon that the only way to do it is to do what Eric is saying, which is now the sport is healing. That's the sport. That is the game.

That's the area of improvement. That's what I think. I think pro-tra athletes probably need, it would be good if they had some sort of a hobby that, you know. This is exactly what I was thinking. Was low energy output, like learning guitar.

But if you're an age of your athlete, 100% of your day is taken up with things. Right, right. And if you can't train for travel on, you'll redistribute your time very easily with what you already have going on.

Yeah, right. Right. You need to take up knitting. Yeah. Right. Spend more time with the kids, vacuum. Right. Just, like, life shit.

People are so behind on so many things because triathlon takes up that maybe tiny window where they would be doing those other things. So when triathlon's off the schedule, like, yeah, like Eric said, get caught up on everything. Clean up the leaves. Wash the garage floor. Yeah. Et cetera. Get all the brakes on all the bikes.

Four runner starter. These are not. I'm just making these up. Except they're real. They're not related to your life at all. 0%. Okay. Last question here is from James.

Hi, TTL fam. Got a DNF yesterday, which is a did not finish, attempting my first Ironman Sacramento with all my family there, and I was more concerned about their disappointment. I thought about how Nick overcame this back and got stronger and qualified for World Championships 70.3. For those battling a DNF, what advice would you guys have for us, James?

This person said Nick DNFed Sacramento and then battled back to qualify for 71-3 worlds. Well, they DNF Sacramento, they were referring to my Wisconsin DNF. That's what I mean. That was like two years ago. Yeah, yeah. Like I would have hoped you would have gotten over it. I wasn't still weighing on me two years later. Maybe they just binge two years of podcast in a week, so it seems very recent.

Right. Well, maybe I'll just give my quick experience with that whole process. Okay, how did you recover? Tell us how you recovered. First of all, for me, having my family there made it better, not worse, because I know that they saw that I gave it everything I could and that they were there for me. whether I crossed the line or not

and they knew all the work that I had going into it but the reality is that it's the TTL community itself that made the emotional recovery from that so fluid and

and like that healing felt so accelerated in a healthy way because of the outpouring of people that shared their own stories of adversity with their own DNFs so I think hearing other people's stories helped me a lot and having my family there, it made it better for me.

I think if I were alone there, it would have felt so isolating to not have them there. So I kind of feel the opposite of this. But Paula, we were talking about this question before the podcast started. And you were saying how you do have this feeling sometimes. Like when Eric flies out to a race, you have this thought while you're racing, like, I need to do this for Eric because he's here. or just like if there's thoughts of not wanting to finish or dnaving or whatever it's like eric's here my mom's here yeah it makes it harder to fail or pull the plug or if you have a dnf it makes

i would think brings a bit of a feeling of like guilt but spinning it the way you are neck is a much more positive and obviously they just care about you they don't care if you finish they want you to be happy and achieve your goals etc but they're not going to like love you any less if you don't finish. You know what a big difference is here, I think, is that often when amateurs' DNF, and it certainly was the case for me, we can't go further. We went until we could not go. There was no more going.

I think when pros is DNF, it's sometimes like a tactical DNF, right? Where it's like, why? I'm in like 10th place and I'm overheating. There's just no reason I'm going to ruin the next two weeks of my training because just to finish this race that I'm not going to do well at. I understand that there was your point of view on that. Yeah. Yeah, you could DNF and not have that same piece that you had Nick where you're like,

I literally couldn't, I gave it all, I'm okay with that. And I'm a piece with it. And a lot of the things you can, just to comfort yourself, it doesn't mean that you suck at triathlon suddenly and you can't, like Nick did, qualify later for 70.3 worlds or whatever it is. A lot of the times the conditions just win on the day. And that was kind of the case for you, Nick. It's not like you weren't physically able to finish an Ironman or you hadn't trained for an Iron Man.

It was so insanely cold and rainy and wet that your body broke down. And that was completely a result of conditions that were out of your control. So I don't know why this particular person didn't finish, but it doesn't mean that you're not a good athlete or that it's not within your ability to do another one, even next weekend if you were to have another race, you know? Well, so last weekend, I have these like race prep runs now that happened on Sundays. They're an hour and 45 minutes long and they have these long race pace intervals in the middle. And I had one last weekend and it just went so badly from the start.

And I don't know why, but I just did not feel good. I couldn't run at the pace I needed to run at. I just felt bad the whole time and I ran slow. Stunk. I had the same exact workout two days ago. Oh, yesterday. And it went fantastic. I ran 45 seconds per mile faster and never had.

to stop and felt better the whole time. And they were just a week apart. Yeah. Sometimes it's just like you have days where like you ate something you don't even realize or you didn't sleep well or it's a little hotter and it makes a world a difference. Totally. Yeah. That's how I help myself mentally recover from a bad race.

Like Vegas. I really think it was like that day. I felt awful. Not like, oh, shoot, I'm not fit anymore. Eric, do you feel like you have this variance in. how your body shows up for you in sessions? Or do you feel like it's pretty consistent with what you, you know what you're going to get?

Yeah, yeah, I do. What I was thinking is that the difference between, I feel like a skill that pro athletes have developed that might be slightly sharper than an amateur athlete is the ability to, in training, push through that. Like hearing a 45 second per mile spread between you feeling bad and feeling great, that doesn't happen to me. It would be a much smaller difference.

And yes, the effort is much higher. And I was going 10 seconds per mile slower last week than this week. But I feel like we have a pretty good ability to always get a little bit more out of ourselves, even when we feel crap. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think I wonder if part of that isn't that as amateurs, we don't give enough credit

to how much of a part the mental game plays in it. And you guys are so much more dialed on the mental game. You're like, nope, this is what the plan is today. And I am doing it. Whereas amateurs were a little more like, well, how much do I feel like doing this right now? Like, do I feel like suffering for an hour and 45 minutes? Yeah, exactly. And ultimate, the ultimate motivation, your life, your income stream, your whole existence is not hinging upon.

And sometimes we have that feeling of this workout is the most important. If I mess up this workout, then how does this relate to the race in two weeks? And that's a big prize money race. And that's a big points race and all this stuff versus, you know, if there wasn't that on the line, it would be, I know I would struggle massively. And just, I'm like, ah, you know, today's not the day. I'll do it tomorrow. Yeah. It would have been curious to see how you guys would have been as athletes if you weren't professionals, like in the age group field.

I wonder how different your training would be and your motivation would be. I don't know. I mean, we... Did you ever race amateur? Paula? No, I never did. Yeah, the first race you ever did,

she won the overall, right? Right. I mean, I raced... It's so different in Canada because we don't, like, call ourselves pros when we're in the Olympic stream. I don't know.

It's kind of different, but I started, I did my first triathlon when I was 16 as a junior. and then I went to junior world championships under triathlon Canada and went through that pipeline versus starting in the end. Anyway, this doesn't matter.

What's the question though? I was just going to say that I did start out as an amateur and I think probably the way that someone who is ultimately on the pathway to becoming pro, the way that your brain has worked and it will not let you not do a session and it feels every session feels super important and you have to nail it.

I feel like that's... That's just who you are. Kind of in your brain. But before I had that realization around 18 and I got second in the country or whatever in my age group and I thought, oh, wow, maybe I could do this, you know, as a professional. I don't know. Before that, I can definitely remember, man, I should do this run because my coach is going to ask me. It'll be really embarrassing if I have to tell them, no, I didn't run on Tuesday morning. It was a little bit more like I'm checking the boxes and I hadn't developed a long-term vision yet.

Right. Anyway, right. Cool. That's how I can relate to it. Yeah, cool. Fun. Well, those are all our questions. Eric, you're racing your first ultra this weekend.

Anyway, we can do a pod when you're here on Sunday. We'll do a pod, yeah, for sure. Eric and Eric will be in a cast, in a full-body cast. We'll bring him upstairs and plop them in the chair. Now, I hope not, Eric. I hope you won't be too beat up. I think he'll be 100% fine. I think he could run the next day.

Yeah. We'll see. I'm not saying he will. I think he should. He could if he needed to. If I absolutely had to, I feel like there's a chance I'll be able to. But it'll all depend on that last 5K bombing downhill. That is, I mean, that's going to be full send. Yep. And who knows if I'll be at the finish line already or if you'll be at the finish line when I'm finishing. It's a race to the finish man. So what are the timings? Like, how far after do you start, Nick?

I started an hour and a half after he does, I think. Oh, interesting. Okay. So I think there's a very real possibility that we'll finish very close to each other. So if I did four hours, that would mean that it would have to take you two and a half hours, right, for you to do your half marathon? Yeah. So that's a bit long, probably. Like, I think I'll be more like two, ten or something like that.

But you never know. Anything can happen out there. Misery Ridge, you know. So if you have a little bit of a rough day and I almost set the course record, we might watch the finish line at the same time. High likelihood. So could happen. I don't know.

We'll see. That'll be fun though. Okay. Well, next time you'll hear from us, we'll all be in the same room and Ben. Doing a recap of the 50K. I'm looking forward to that already. Oh, yeah. What, the recap?

Yeah. We're going to be totally different humans. All right. Cool. Thanks guys for listening. Thanks. Later. Bye.

I'm