That Triathlon Life Podcast - Coached triathlon workouts, DNFs DNSs, and more!

Episode Date: August 21, 2025

This week we are back to our classic TTL Podcast episode format, starting with some Bike Tech With Eric, some life updates, and answering listener submitted questions. This week we discussed: Tubeless tires for heavier ridersTire sealant with latex inner tubesWhat Eric writes on his hands during racesNutrition strategies for open water swimmingRunning through transition with your bikeOur most memorable DNFsDealing with motion sickness while swimmingIncorporating outdoor workouts into a coached training planHow to mentally approach pulling out of an A-raceA big thank you to our podcast supporters who keep the podcast alive! To submit a question for the podcast and to become a podcast supporter, head over to ThatTriathlonLife.com/podcast

Hi, everyone. Welcome to That Triathlon Life podcast. I'm Paula Finley. I'm Eric Loggersome. I'm Nick Goldstone. And this is our triathlon podcast where every week we take your questions and we answer them, amongst other things like updating you on the news, potentially what's going on in the triathlon world, is going on in our lives, and any other fun games that Nick might come up with. Eric and I are professional athletes and Nick is a professional musician, a very fast age group, athlete and together we have a lot of years of knowledge of the sport so welcome to the show. How many years do we have? Can we do some quick maths? I was trying to add this up the other day and

it makes it starts to make us sound old. Oh, starts. I was like, Eric, we definitely are old. Like Paul and I have like 20 whatever. Man, what is it? Like I started when I was 11 and now 35. So like I have like 25 years, Paul's got around 25 years. So right there we're at 50. Wow. And I think my years count as like half, but that's been, it's been eight years of racing for me. So 54 years, we'll count, we'll say. Why do your years count as half? Just because I'm not a professional. No, but you're still been doing it for, yeah, it's still like a wealth of years of knowledge. Yes, for sure. Of different experiences. And dare I say that, and I don't want, I don't mean to be insulting at all. And of course, you guys have achieved way more than I have.

But I think you guys have gotten way further and you're way faster. But I may have done in the last eight years more like, how do I get faster kind of research, whereas you guys have just been getting faster, you know? Or slower. Does that make any sense? Or just trying to decrease the rate at which we get slower. Sure, sure, sure. I think this is a secret gift of being an age group athlete is that we can reasonably still get faster. Whereas a lot of pros, it's like, I would just like to have the same season I had last year.

You know, that would be great. And like mitigating that. There's a lot of low-hanging fruit for those early years are the golden years. For sure. Anyway, what do you have got lined up for us this week, Nick? Okay, well, we have a couple of bike tech with Eric questions focused around tubeless. Eric's going to update us on some Devo team epicness that happened this past weekend. Eric's also going to update us on his little pro kit release that went well.

And then we have a bunch of questions. Sweet. Triathlon questions. This is like a tried and true classic TTL podcast episode. Yeah. The kit release has not gone well. It is going well. It is not over just yet.

When this podcast comes out there, it'll still be a little bit of time on Friday. We shut an orders down on Friday afternoon. So if you've been digging the kit that I've been wearing, now is your opportunity to get one. As far as the news goes, huge weekend for the TTL development team. If you're not familiar,

we support a group of young athletes that are trying to make the transition from age group athlete to pro. Some of them are in their first or second year of pro and we're just trying to give them a little bit of a boost to getting to their, that point of being a professional athlete in the sense of it's their job. And that is not an easy jump to make. So first off, Mimi Carlton, she took the overall age group win at Ironman 70.3,

Czech Republic. She had the fourth fastest female bike overall and second fastest run, which is awesome. She is one of the athletes that we have that is in the process of turning pro. And she's just one of the nicest people and we're having a blast wash in her race. Biggest exciting news of the weekend is Zach Cooper. Man, this kid's on a tear. Faster and faster every time. Qualified for Iron Man World Championships, which will be in Nice. Not easy to do as a pro. You think it's hard as an age grouper. It's very hard as a pro. Not easy at all. He did it at Iron Man Copenhagen. I think he came what place? Fourth. Fourth. Yep. That's good stuff. Good job, Zach. He's just crushing. He had a great race to challenge Roth. It's been really, really fun to watch his season. So Zach, me, me. If you're not following along with these guys on Instagram, go do that now. They're a lot of fun.

I got a little bit of news to add myself. Friend of the pod, Jackie Herring won Ironman 17.3 Louisville. Saw that. Oh, Jackie. In the heat. She was away at a wedding in California, so I was kind of surprised that she was going to race the next weekend. But she said she's at the point in her. training cycle where she needs snacks and cheering. So this was a catered workout? Yeah, it was a catered workout in the heat. It seems like a heat prep for Kona and she won dominantly, which is not a huge surprise. And then Jason West won the men's race who also is an old friend of mine from back

of the day in Boulder. So good weekend for the American pros. Yeah, I didn't actually end up checking in on the results of the men's side post race. Paul up was updating me after everybody'd come off the bike and it was shaping up to be an interesting duel between, I think, was it Ben Canute and Trevor Foley that came off more in the lead and Jason was a little bit down and ran all the way up. Yeah. That guy can fly.

Cool. I think that's all the news. Sweet. And let's get right into it here. Before we get into our general questions, we haven't done a bike tech with Eric in a while. So, Eric, you're going to bestow your wealth of knowledge 54 years. Well, now 54 years, I guess 20. but upon us as a former bike shop employee in Portland

and now the official sponsored tech for Paula Finley. Oh, by the way, we're leaving for France later this week. And Eric, I need a two-by on my bike. Oh, there you go. They need to do that today or tomorrow. How complicated is that, Eric, by the way, to put the front derailer. You take the derailer off, right, when you have the one-by setup on? Yeah, I don't know.

It kind of depends. I've done this thing where I like pull the derailer hanger, the front derailer hanger off with the derailer. Therefore leaving the derailer. Right. And it's ideal orientation. So I don't have to reset that up. But it's still like I have to go through.

You have to repair all the blips and everything with the derailers because they act differently when you have a front derailer attached to them. If they don't think there's a front derailer, they're not going to shift in the same way. Wow. That's really interesting. Conversely, like if you have it set up as a two-by and you just pull the front off, the rear is never going to go into the biggest cog, the fastest con. Because it thinks it's in the small ring and it's going to allow you to cross-chain that hard.

Wow. That's the biggest thing. But I have to basically rebuild Paula's bike when we go to a race anyway because I have to take her front end off of her training bike and put it on the racing bike and then repair all the blips. And it's a whole thing anyway. So not that much more work. But since we're talking about it, are you guys still using the Evac Road Bike Pro bag? Yeah, we don't love giving them publicity, but yes.

Yeah, yeah, we bought with our own money. Oh my God, wait a second. I have a quick little story about this. So I came back from Spain and my bike did not make it, right? Yeah. That was on Wednesday. Today is Monday. Still didn't have my bike.

And also I had my helmet in there, whatever, not important. Yesterday, I got a call at 4.30 a.m. I assume it's spam. today I get a call from the same, well actually I get my doorbell rings at 520 in the morning. Whoa. And I'm like, what is this? And the last time my doorbell rang at 520 in the morning, it was the police telling me that someone had broken into our unit and stolen a bicycle. Right.

So I was like, not this again. So I pop my head out the window and I see a person there with like a little like iPad. And I'm like, hello? And I'm in my underwear. and the guy's like you guys start speaking to me in Spanish like like that like completely normally yeah like I'm in Spain

and I'm like okay perfect and he's and I look over and my bike is there nice in the case so he had come the day before at 430 I wasn't I didn't I guess I didn't hear the doorbell ring and then today at 520 because I noticed that the phone number

was the same as one that called yesterday Why so early? This is the smartest guy ever he's doing it before the fucking traffic Well, yeah, smartest guy except zero times out of ten, I think that's going to work. I just happen to wake up and walk over. I think what they do is, like, they make two delivery attempts, and they're like, you didn't accept it. So now you have to come to LAX and pick it up yourself.

Wow. But yes, of course, there's no traffic. No, but he's been trying to call you to organize it. No, he hasn't. They haven't. I have been texting back and forth with the Iberia Airlines official thing, and they refuse to respond until they say, we tried to deliver and you weren't there. And I responded.

I said, when did you try to deliver? No answer. And then they just brought it back at 5.20. Yeah. Exactly. Some internal communication issues. You should have just left a note on your door. Please leave bike outside here.

Yeah. It'll be there for 13 seconds. Anyway, so I did get my bike back finally. And it was in that bag. Yeah. So anyway. Yeah, so you guys are still using that bag. And that still is there a lot of work to set up her bike.

But that's more because you have to switch it over from her other bike. Is that right? Not that much work. Yeah. This is his job, though. Yeah. It's one of my jobs. Also, Eric uses the Tully, not the Evonk Pro.

The only reason we use that bag is because it's good for accommodating aerobike, T.T. Barr, stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. Eric's going to bring a road bike, so he'll bring the Tully, which is our preference. Yeah. Sweet. Okay, so on to Bike Tech with Eric here. These are both about tubeless. I think there's a great questions.

It's actually insane how many questions are about tubless. Like, there should be no questions. You should just do it. I agree. I haven't had a flat in like 10 years. Do you agree with that too? It's, there you do it.

It's absolutely shocking that people are still asking this. I can't agree. Yeah, can't believe it. There's so many people still in the old mindset. And so I think there's this transition happening right now. Is this just because there's so many articles around from like pre, it being flushed out that people are still finding this? Or it's just full on wives tale at this point of,

I guess just people are scared of news. things. Well, the first question here actually, I think, I hope we will demystify a wives tale. So the first one here is from Wade. Totally get the benefits of tubeless tires and have considered them, but as an oversized athlete, six foot seven and range from 250 to 280 pounds, I worry about the risk of catastrophic failure at my size. Is my fear warranted Wade? Yeah, I did a quick, like, logic, you know, run through. And I couldn't come up with a reason. seems like it would for sure be better running lower chance of having a catastrophic pinch flat.

Pinch flats for heavier athletes are a bigger issue. So it's actually better for a bigger athlete. Yeah. Like once your tire is seated on these rims, like it is freaking on there. Yeah. Like the beads are strong. You're not rolling it.

Unless you're just forget and you're running like 2 PSI, which would be an even bigger problem. if you had tubes. You're good to go. Just remember, do you want, make sure you get tubeless wheels and tubeless tires? That's the only point that we can have a problem. Yep. That was an easy one.

Okay, next one here is from Robert. What up, TriPot? I have a bike tech with Eric question. I live in New Mexico where thorns and sharp objects are abundant. By the way, Robert, same with Southern California. I do not have tubeless tires. However, for about a year now, I have been running latex tubes with about one and a half ounces of Stan's orange seal in each tube.

and paired with Conti GP5,000's, this has ended up being a very effective for puncture protection and hasn't seemed to be noticeably slower on my typical roots. Questions are, I do not know of many people doing this and definitely isn't common practice. Why is that? Would you recommend it or not?

Do you think it is faster or slower than a regular clincher setup? Thanks a ton to the whole crew for all that you do. Robert. Do I have a 5440 on my front two-bye? That's one of the things you have, yeah. Yeah, that's what we got to use. Okay.

This sounds like a thing that would work. It's not going to be as fast as pure tubeless. It's going to be faster than regular tubes because latex tubes are faster than regular tubes. I've heard of people doing this in races with their latex tubes, but kind of what my mind goes to is like, let's say you get three little mini flats over the course of a month with your tubeless setup, complete non-issue.

If you're getting three little mini flats with this, whole setup. There's just a lot going on there in like sealant balls forming inside of the between the tube and the tire. And if you do have to change it, this is just, sounds like the messiest possible thing you could ever have. So why, this is what I'm wondering. I'm like, okay, yes, this works. And I have heard of people doing this in races. Actually, I think from you. But what is the advantage over just a tube-less setup? Yeah, I can't think of any advantage, to be honest. It's messier. It's harder to set up. It's more annoying to switch out the tube. Yeah, it sounds to me more like a thing

that you've been like racing with latex tubes forever and then you heard about sealant To give myself some peace of mind I'll squirt a little sealant in there and not have to go through the process of actually setting up tubeless or if you just don't have rims that are tubeless compatible I suppose

Okay, and just so I understand that what's actually physically happening here is the sealant going between the tire and the latex tube or is it going into the latex tube in the same place where the air is going? Theoretically, it should just be sealing the latex tube. But the way, what I'm imagining happening is, like,

sealants just going freaking everywhere and you're kind of hoping that it simultaneously seals the tube and the tire hole. And, like, there's just two holes now that need to be successfully sealed. Yeah. That's crazy. Kind of.

Yeah, it's... Got it. Okay. That's not how the whole... thing was designed. Yeah. And like all the research and tires and wheels and ceiling is not for this scenario. No.

No. Right. Oh, cool. Well, thanks for the question, Robert. Thanks to your expertise. Eric. We're going to move on to questions now. God,

we're being so efficient today. Is this because it's not even noon yet? We're far on. We're on a lot of fulnering podcast. Does anyone have any, does anyone have any life updates? Because I do. Paula, hit us with the life updates.

Life updates. I hope it doesn't. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Well, we didn't even really get a chance to talk about our personal lives. You're right. Okay. Hey, let's do it. Let's get cozy. Pull up a glass of water or some warm milk. Okay, health updates about Flynn. Here we go. He's deteriorated rapidly, mostly because it's our child.

Geez, dark. God. No, he's like, we're so dumb. We took him to the lake to swim because we thought swimming's good for him. But then the lake was shallow, so he actually was just running in water. and made it worse. Confirmed that he has an ACL tear, and I think he'll get surgery the week we get back from T-100 France. To clarify the timeline, ACL tear was confirmed prior to the deep, mid-level water running.

So we're a little bit in the like, does it matter? He's going to go in for surgery in a couple weeks. And yeah, he went running through the water, and he's definitely now in need of the surgery. To your guys credit, though, you guys, like, Flynn has been injured in the past many times, and you guys kind of ease him back into exercise, and then he's okay. So this is the precedent that you had set in your minds of what works,

and this is kind of what you did. And this time it's just something else, something serious. Doesn't heal itself. Yeah. Yeah. It's okay. So it's okay. If anyone has any, actually, no, don't send me any more tips.

Rip your inbox. Please don't send me anything else about dog tears. No, send, uh, we need to send, uh, we need to. You need psychological tips on saying no to your child. No, I was going to say that, but then I was like, actually, no, don't do that. The worst part about this is going to not just be the cost, but mostly the recovery of two months, a very, very limited activity. I mean, it'll build through that two months of being more walking, but at first, very, very limited. And we're fortunate that we can afford it.

I did a lot of, like, Reddit Googling on this thing and people. it's so expensive. A lot of people just cannot afford it. What are you supposed to do? It's crippling because washing your dog in pain is just horrible. I mean, and I don't, I don't want to, yeah, we kind of felt like this was coming.

Like when we got Flynn, his level of... We've been budgeting for it. Yeah, and we got pet insurance. Some people save for college, you guys save for ACL tears. No, I mean, just like you look at him in action, you're like, this is just a matter of time. Like, his brain is never going to calm down,

but his body is going to slow. wear out in that little time there in between is he's going to like hurt himself. So we do have pet insurance. He might cover half of it. Thank goodness. Oh, that's great. I bet you we could set up a podcast donation fund for Flynn. We'd cover it. No, I'm just kidding. I feel it's a bit immoral, but yeah. Yeah, we're not doing that. He has a lot of fans. He has a lot of fans. Yeah, okay, sweet. Okay, well, other than Flynn's life updates, how about Paula's life updates? Well, I've been doing okay except for quite tired. And then I tripped on Flynn's leash and whacked my head on a rock. Yeah. Injured Flynn took off after another squirrel or a dog or something so fast that he tripped

Paula and she fell backwards against a, what do you call it, a decorative rock outside of a coffee shop? It was like a huge boulder and I just like whacked my head on it. I get a little queasy just thinking about this. Yeah, I can still hear the noise. Oh, God. And then I didn't think I had a concussion, but today when I was coming in the house, I put my swimming pass number in our door code. Yeah, that's not great. Let's get on a flight to France right immediately. Yeah. Well, I'm going to probably get a lot of people saying you probably have a concussion, be careful.

Did you talk to Nate or anything? Did you do a little concussion protocol thing? No. My dad's a brain surgeon, though. He thinks I'm fine. Okay, great. there we go That's great

So you won't need brain surgery Is that what you're saying? Yeah, okay, good If she does, we know a guy Yeah Okay, Eric, what about you? Body, mind, how are you feeling post 50K now?

Are you fully healed physically? Are you fully healed mental traumatically with the amount of climbing? Yeah, yeah, I think so. I had a couple of days of extreme soreness, but not the worst I've had

and my hip did not explode on me which is, you know, one more race without incidents. Can you figure out why? Do you know why it didn't explode on you? I don't know. It was starting to hurt in middle of the race, but usually what happens is just like if I feel like my hip zone is like firing properly

and warmed up, then it goes well. And sometimes I just feel like I don't have that much control down there for whatever reason. And first half of the race felt like that. Second half of the race, just as we started climbing more, I felt like things warmed up. became less loosey-goosey. So I think that helped.

But I had a couple of days of soreness and then just like this, the kind of roller coaster of like general energy level where one day I feel like I can do anything and the next day just like I don't even want to get out of bed. Yeah. That goes on for a couple days. But I did go out with Paula on her.

She had a bike workout that was quite fun. What was it? There were a couple of like longer warm, like warm up like less like sub race pace type efforts in the beginning and then we rode across town to pilot but which is this what's a beaut it's just like a big cinder cone in the middle of town kind of and we did um quite hard hill things up that and uh i i like i have pretty good power yeah like i haven't done a bike workout and i don't even know when the last time i did a bike workout in but i kind of just rolled over there anticipating taking some pictures

and cruising around but felt inspired and enjoying for the whole thing. So that was very, very fun. And that concludes my week of whatever the heck I want. And I am officially on a training plan today. Kodiak. Yep. Yeah. I'm planned up, coached up, ready to rock and roll. Next race will be the swim run. But then, but yeah, kind of focus, main focus mentally is on that Kodiak race. Wait a second. So how often are you going to be swimming now? Well, it's funny you ask. I did 5K open water. 5K open water. With Bola.

I think his GPS was a little lanky personally because I did 5K and I swam further longer And you said I think Paula you said like 117 per 100 yards on my Strava it said that Which is extremely fast No that's actually totally accurate If you look at my this is what I Am skeptical about GPS is swimming

If you look at my lines on the swim They're perfectly straight Like not perfectly straight as in I swam in a straight line But the GPS line is straight If you look at Eric's, it has these, like, micro zigzags. Like little jiggles. Yeah. So I think that is indicating that, like, if he swam 100, the GPS line thinks he swam 110 or something because of those micro zigzags.

So it's giving his average pace is quicker. Pace and distance are inflated, yeah. Because I think, yes, you probably swam a little faster than me, but you didn't swim 10 seconds per hundred faster than me. Anyway, that's just a notice. We talked about this before on the podcast. Paces and swimming are not actually like 100% accurate. I think my pace yesterday was because my lines were straight. Yeah, so the newer watches, I think they apply some GPS smoothing in the algorithm

when they actually deliver the data at the end. And when I swim in Hawaii, there's like a very clear 500-yard segment. and I have my watch set up to lap every 500 yards and it was within like two yards of that. It might have been coincidence, but it was so, so, so accurate on that. My experience lately with the new watches is that they are very accurate,

but it's always hard because every time you put your hand underwater, it loses GPS. I wonder if I just never, like, locked onto enough satellites because also when I would pause for like, you know, 30 seconds to look and try to figure out

where Paul and the group was, it would throw up the thing it was like, wait for GPS signal. Mine does that too. And I just ignore it and push start. Yeah. It's called GPS soaking when you just like let it sit in the satellites and really let it get like its location. Eric, don't make that face.

Don't do that. Is that really what it's called? Yes, it is called GPS. I mean, it's a colloquial term. What's it called? GPS soaking. Why is that funny? It's not funny at all.

It's very serious. Totally normal. Okay. Let's move on. Okay. questions here. You can submit your questions at that triathlonlife.com slash podcast. And you can become a podcast supporter at That Triathlon Life slash podcast as well. This week, podcast supporters are going to get a little behind the scenes video.

We're going to do a question that only the supporters are going to get the answer to about pacing in a headwind with a bike. And in addition to that, we picked a podcast supporter to receive one of the TTL Orca swim caps. And this week, Lindsay Winter, you're a podcast winner. Thank you for being a supporter, Lindsay. Thank you, Lindsay. Thank you so much. You know, you're an unsung hero.

Well, right now you're the sung hero. And Lindsay's from Alberta? Is she from home time? Calgary. Sorry, Calgary. Canada. So enjoy it, Lindsay. Reach out to me or, actually, yeah, reach out to me

and confirm your address and I'll have that sent out to you ASAP. Okay. First question here. From Ben. A T-T-L fam. Just watch the latest TTL video drop about Eric's race.

Congrats on second place. I was curious what you had written on the back of your left hand. Love the pod. I'm a supporter and the YouTube. Cheers, Ben. Eric, was on the back of your hand, was it? Don't high five anyone and accidentally stop your watch that you lose track of your pacing. We forgot to say that Eric put out a vlog yesterday on TTL.

That's right. That's right. It's a good one. Yeah. Yeah. YouTube. YouTube is actually how TTL started. I have a wonderful race recap, race experience, sort of a situation from the 50K that I did,

which is actually, it's very fun because my dad, Wadi, and Jordan Briden all contributed footage to it. I think there's even a video in there from Jordan's wife of me crossing the finish line. So it was quite the trick to edit and put all this together, but it's fun. And I think, I don't know, it encapsulates the experience that we have for the weekend. So what I had on the back of my hand, which is a shot that you saw in there, were some just like key time splits on the course relative to the winner's time from last year. So basically I had like his time at the top of the first climb, his time at the first aid station, his time at, you know, when we crossed the highway,

just something, anything out there to give me some sort of an indication of like, this is going well, this is going poorly, just like almost entertainment value to a certain degree. Yeah, something to think about. A little bit, yeah, a little bit of pacing. I did that for Smith Rock and it really like kept me mentally engaged throughout the whole thing. Like, okay, I was 10 seconds behind there. I was 20 seconds ahead of the next thing.

And then also like I gave those splits to the crew so that they would have an idea of when I would come into the only crewable aid station. which I think I ended up being 10 minutes behind the play because I blew up pretty massively taken a risk with my pacing but yeah, that was on the back of my hand. Do you remember what the winner's time was this year compared to the winter's time last year?

Like was a good strategy? It's a slightly different course. Ah. But it was just, I mean, to give you an idea of how challenging the course was, the winner went, what did you go, 424? And like the time that I went at Black Canyon earlier this year was 325.

Right. And still with like plenty of up and down and challenging. Black Canyon is very fast course predominantly down. This is predominantly up. But that's what's kind of crazy about trail running is the wild variety of courses and the times that you can end up doing. So it makes it challenging with nutrition and then just pacing and thinking about when you're going to be certain places.

Yeah. Got it. Well, speaking of nutrition, the next question here from Frank, is it possible to take in nutrition while open water swimming? I think there's a business idea in there somewhere if we can figure it out, Frank. You know what this reminds me of when you see in the Olympics, like the 10K open water swimmers? Yeah. Do they do the feed zones with the rolling-over fishing poles hanging the bottles hanging off the front?

Do you want to actually describe that? Because for people who don't know it? So they got basically like a pole with a water bottle cage on the end of it, your, your or whoever that like they hang out over the water as you swim next to like a dock and you reach up and you grab the water bottle out of the cage and like take a couple like half one arm strokes on your back like squirting water in your mouth and then you like I don't know what they do with the bottle chuck it somewhere or something and then resume swimming it's it's actually pretty cool it's one of the more entertaining moments in the long distance open water swimming you got if you

haven't seen it you got to like find it on YouTube and check it out because it's crazy to see but in a 10k that's super essential but I would say For the most part, the length of swims that we're all doing as triathletes are not long enough to really need nutrition. And I think you could always tuck a gel into your wetsuit if you needed to have a little top up halfway through. So this has been a thing that I've spent a lot of time thinking about. And Orca does have a solution, of which I want to personally make a couple of modifications to and offer like a TTL edition. but what they have is a roll top, like, ring floaty toe behind thing. So, like, the roll top is a dry bag sort of a function in which you could put things that you

wanted to keep dry, or you could put a water bottle, or you could put your paddles. A lot of brands have this. Yeah, but I, sure, maybe. We have an orca one. There's an orca one. Orca has, like, five different bags for towing behind you. That's one of them. And then I have seen versions that are just, like, four.

fully open. Like you're, you're towing a little inflatable boat behind you, you know, so you don't have to, like, if you were, if you were swimming 10K, you need to bring a water bottle and buoys and I don't know what a GPS tracker and stuff and you wanted it all open access. I've seen versions that are just almost like a dingy boat. So you could just not have to do the dry bag thing, you know. Yeah, yeah. I think if you're in like a wavy condition or if it's to go through surf to get to the swim, it's not, you can't do that. But if you're in a lake, it's, that's probably the most. convenient thing. It's like, you don't have to open up a roll bag. Yeah. Yeah, bonus towing one of these things behind you is safe. I was thinking, because I have, when I swim here, I have one of those inflatable, like, buoys just so you can be seen. And also it's kind of nice to hang on them if you take a break. But mine came with a little, like, sealed off pouch, and you could definitely fit a few gels in there and, like, your wallet and keys if you need to.

My thing with the one that I have anyway, that's, like, fully a dry bag is if you want get anything out of it, it's all getting soaking wet. You have to like definitely stop at shore and open it up versus a version that you could get in and out of while swimming would be sick. And I feel like this roll top floaty version that Orca has, I haven't tried it yet. Could be sweet. See, like in my perfect world, there's also going to be like a spot on there that you can mount your watch. So it's always above water and you're getting the most accurate GPS possible. There's going to be a GoPro mount, you know, maybe you put a camel back in there and the tube is coming out so you just can drink straight from your camelback

like your bladder tube. Eric does one 5K swim and he's like, I need all this stuff. This is classic Eric. He's figured it out in one swim. I started thinking about all this when we were in Nemo Bay. I don't necessarily need it, but I'm sure that there are and it's fun to think about. I think we should develop this. This is, okay, Paul is not I think we should do it. Ultra tactical toe buoy.

This is great. Put the scientists on it. Okay, Frank. Well, thanks for that. New product coming soon. I fully want to. It's an R&D right now. Bleep all that out, so nobody steals my ideas.

Exactly. Okay, we'll keep our secrets. And next question here, from Peter. Hey, Tripod and Flynn, I've noticed a lot of pros run beside their bikes in transition, holding their saddles, which leaves the front end of the bike very wobbly and susceptible to going wherever it feels like going. My bike handlebars seem a lot looser to turn than pros,

and if I tried to hold my seat and run, my bike would surely fall on the ground. Do the pros just have really tight headsets, or what makes their front end less wobbly? Is this a stiffer front end better? Or is this all just preference? Thanks for all the multi-sport, really freaking cool. Peter.

Pros, we do not have overly tight headsets. Different bikes do this better than other bikes, but I think the biggest factor probably on whether or not this is going to work like a time trial bike definitely works better than a road bike because they're just built to be more stable. And then how much weight you have on the handlebar area, how high that weight is. So if you have a water bottle up high or you just have a lot of stack for your position, you know, your pads are really high. The more weight that you have up high on that is going to impact how wobbly that is. Less weight up high is better. But you do see sometimes these, like, even pros, like, lose control of their bike while running.

It'll, like, tangle up in them. It does happen. It does happen. I think we've just kind of gotten in the habit of it. It is easier because, you know, you don't have the handlebars to, like, bump your leg into. But if your bike just doesn't do it, it's really okay to, and much safer to grab it by the stem zone. The stem on a road bike is just easy to grab, but on a TT bike, it's usually not. I think that's a big part of it is like, where are you actually going to grab it in the handlebar region if you're going to go one-handed so that you can use the other hand to run?

Yep. Yep. The water bottle. That's a little scary. You start, you get over the mountain line and you try to mount your bike and all you're holding is a water bottle. Yeah. Hopefully with all these changing setups everyone has now. Yeah. Hopefully your water bottle thing is like real tight. But what you could do is like wheel it by the seat and then just like kind of guide the front with your other hand.

if you need to. Like, ultimately, I think this comes from ITU where the transitions are so fast. And I personally actually think road bikes are easier to do it with than TT bikes because they're just lighter on the front end and they go straight. Like, you have so much momentum

coming into transition. You just mount so fast, and then the bike just keeps going straight with the saddle. We've just always done it that way. And then, yeah, in 70.3, now we do that too, even though you don't have to be running

as fast in transition. And it's often over... grass or a bumpy parking lot or like not a perfectly smooth carpet. Yeah. Usually in T100 it's like dismount, rack your bike all super close together. So you don't have this issue as much. On a smooth carpet, yeah. So you roll it in and it usually tracks pretty straight.

But like somewhere like Boise where you're rolling it over grass, that's where I found the bike just kind of the front end gets all water leaves you. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Okay. Next question here from Lawrence. Hey from the UK long-time listener, first-time caller. Hope to keep my question and backstory short for Paula, but hope this triathlon topic could help others. A few weeks ago, I DNF for the first time at Alpduez Triathlon. It was obviously a bit of a bucketless triathlon to do

and to completely blow up 2K into the run from electrolyte and heat stroke mistakes. It's left me with real ups and downs about why we do triathlon. On one hand, seeing a finished shoot afterwards knowing you've never made it kills me. However, in line with Eric and Nick's film, without triathlon, I don't think I would ever be in such beautiful places, making memories over collecting medals. My question is, is there a DNF that stands out the most to you in your racing career and why? We'd love to hear all three as I think there's a difference between age group and pro. For me, it would be escape from Alcatraz when my stress reaction in my foot changed very quickly to a stress fracture running from the water. to T1.

I made it on to the bike. I made it through the bike in a lot of pain. But I tried running out of T2 and absolutely could not. I actually ended up sitting on the ground and it was so painful to like hop on one foot just because of the shock going through the other foot that I ended up getting wheelchaired back to the finish line. Wow. So hopping on your non-injured foot hurt your injured foot. Yeah, just because like the shock going through the, through the bones and stuff.

It was, yeah. So that stands out in my mind and I felt like I was very fit and that was my best chance since the first time I won to win that race. And I had to wait another few years. Yeah, and let's just be clear.

You waited a few years and then you did in fact win it again. Yeah. So, I mean, that's kind of, I guess, my feeling about DNFs is, yeah, it sucks. and it really it really sucks.

But there, it does kind of give you a moment for like realizing how special it is to actually cross the finish line. It's not a given. And when you do cross the finish line the next time, it's ideally more special than before. Yeah. Paula?

I don't know if I've ever DNF to 70.3. I'm going to check my stats. Not since I've known you. I had quite a lot of, DNFs in ITU in the period of time between the Olympics when I had like a great run of races and then from leaving ITU ultimately. And I was just struggling so much physically and mentally. But the one that stands out the most is where is gold chaos WTCS. My coach at the time when I pulled out of the race on the run was so mad at me. And that's what stuck with me the most. It wasn't

even like sadness about pulling out and frustration. It was like she wouldn't even talk to me. And I think that was the completely inappropriate response by her, but she was frustrated as well, obviously. What was going on with you that caused the GNF? Just like low energy. I don't know. I was so effed at the time physically and had so many health problems probably, but I was just like powering through. And your coach didn't recognize that. I mean, I don't know. But she's like you always finish no matter what unless you have stress fracture like Eric did. Right. But since then, I just really haven't DNF that much. It is hard to deal with, but I think refocusing on a new goal pretty quick is the best way to get over it.

Or fix the reason that you had to DNF. If it's because of fatigue and burnout and low blood or whatever it is, low iron, don't just wipe your slate clean and try to sign up for another race. Like get to the root of the problem, take some rest, and make sure that when you're going into a race, you know that your body is. is ready to do it. Yeah. My only DNF was very memorable. I was my first attempt at an Ironman, Iron Man Wisconsin a few years ago.

Do you want to tell us the story? I'm going to go get a tea. I'm going to go get a hot tea. No, there's a podcast episode that we did where you can hear the story. But it was a few years ago. Iron Man, Wisconsin, DNF. I was, I don't know, pretty close to hypothermic,

if not hypothermic on the bike when I got in, warmed up for an hour, made it out to the run, made it 13 miles before I started getting some pretty severe like IT band style pain and then eventually at mile 19 I couldn't even walk anymore. So had to DNF from that. That was memorable. And actually in a couple of weeks I am trying to redeem it. Going to Ironman Wisconsin and on September 7th and I'm going to try to finally finish a freaking Ironman. Nice. You did everything you could to finish that day though. That was not mentally weak. I did everything. Yeah. There was there was nothing.

There's nothing I, that's why I didn't feel actually that bad about it. It's like, well, that was literally all I had. And I had done everything I could in training. So I feel like it's just not meant to be that day. But hoping to fix that soon. So there you go. It happens, Lawrence. Happens to all of us.

I've done 3070.3s in my life and I've DN after one of them. Wow. Which one? Can you remember? If you remember, I'll give you a prize. And I pick my prize. Wow Was I racing it?

Yep Okay Wow this is a fun game That's the only hint you're getting though I can't think of it I think it was pre-planned as well I was like well I'm here Oh yeah I do know it

Okay what was it Cabo No You finished that? Yep I finished extremely slow Well you not finishing Cabo was a little pre-plan

So you went off the plan on that one I feel like if memory serves me But yeah no I don't know again I'm back to not Those Cabos isn't even showing up on my... You finished Boulder, which is probably the most scarring thing that I've watched you do. 70.3 Victoria is the one I didn't finish.

You didn't... Which is sad because that's the coolest race. Like you run around out twice. I used to train there, but I was really injured and I did the bike and then stopped in T2, which I hate doing. I completely forgot about that. But Eric, I think you are right about Cabo and it's not showing up on my... PTO triathlon stats. Yeah, come on.

What year was that? It's been like 18. Yeah, it's just not showing up here. Anyway, okay, next question. Next question here. This is going to be our supporter segment. So if you're a podcast supporter, you're going to get this as an email in your inbox

when the podcast comes out. And it's going to have us on video here chatting and answering the question as well. So here's the question. When racing 70.3, how do you handle the bike effort if there's wind? I'm thinking headwind versus tailwind on top of the course profile. Does that change your tactics knowing you need to push harder on the headwind to not gain any speed or maintain pace but hammer the tailwind?

All the best, Jeff. All right. So we'll see you on the other side if you're listening to the podcast, and here's the answer if you're a podcast supporter. Back to the podcast. All right there. Now everyone that listened to that is going to be way faster in the wind. and everyone who didn't, sorry, good luck.

Next question here is from Riannon. I'm new to triathlon and swimming, adult onset swimmer, only been training for a few months, and I've tried incorporating a pool buoy in my swim workouts to focus on my upper body and core. However, using the pool buoy makes me extremely motion sick. I can only do one length of the pool before I get so nauseous I have to stop and go back to swimming without it.

Any tips on how to mitigate this? Is it potentially an issue with my form and over-rotation? I've had no issues with motion sickness when swimming normally. I'd really like to be able to incorporate the pool buoy into my workouts, but it feels almost impossible with how nauseous it makes me. Thanks, Rian. Really interesting. I did do some reading on this,

but I'm curious if what you guys think is going on here. I've never heard of this. This happens to me when open water swimming in rough conditions. Yeah, that makes sense to me. Yeah. So what's the reason for the bull boy? So the pull-booy thing, it is a bit odd, but I think it is because this person is swimming differently in their upper body with the pull-booy versus without. Yeah.

And it is a head movement thing. This is why a lot of people feel sick when they have to sight because it's just like a lot of up and down and around. It's when your eyes and your ears are like giving you different information than what's actually happening physically. Even like there's this really cool mode in the new operating system for the phone. where if it senses like you're in a car, it'll have these dots on there that move with the gyroscope and those dots are enough

to not make you feel motion sick for a lot of people because they are doing the thing they're informing your brain of what's happening to your body physically. So with that same concept with swimming, the best thing you can do from what I read is really focus on

when you are not breathing keeping your head very straight, very still, staring at the line and I imagine if Riannon has been swimming only for a few months, that they're probably doing some flailing a little bit. And they're like, you know, their arms going in, their head's kind of doing this roly thing. Instead, really try to lock in.

And if you watch really good swimmers, they all do this. They're breathing, but when they're not breathing, their head is really stable. So, like, really actually using the line visually, like noting where the line is and trying to keep just good spine position, basically. Exactly. Lock that in.

And I think there's also a level of you've been swimming for a few months. This is all a new stimulus for your brain and your body, and you have to get used to it a little bit. Yeah. Wow, that's a good question, but also a very good answer, Nick. One length of a pool to feel really motion sick after one length seems so severe, though. I was going to suggest trying different types of poleboys, but I don't know if that would help. Like some pull boys are more like kickboard shape and they're skinny. And maybe that would prevent your body from moving around.

as much because it's a little bit of a... Oh, that's interesting. Like a rudder. Like a rudder. Yeah. Like the one I use, I think it's like, I forget what branded is, but it's much skinnier than like your typical pull boy that you get in the bin at the pool for borrowing. Like the speedo fat ones.

Let's talk about an ideal scenario too. Do you think when someone's using a pull buoy, should they be rotating more than they are when they're swimming without a pull buoy? What is the point? I don't think, at least not in your hips. You shouldn't be rotating more in the hips. I don't think it changes my stroke that much in terms of like from the neck down. Yeah. And I mean, I don't, it kind of depends on what the point of using the pull buoy is. But for me anyway, I still maintain like a very light two beat kick just for like the timing of where the power kick actually happens in the stroke. And that probably also helps just like stabilize me a teeny bit. I don't. Like counterbalancing.

You could think of it as cheating, you know, and sometimes we'll do a specific drill with a band on. But for me, this, like, has the pull buoy in, but also, like, maintains a more realistic swim experience. The reason I don't think of it as cheating is because I think for a lot of us adult onset swimmers, the pool buoy is actually an opportunity to just totally forget about our legs and really focus on upper body. You are such an experienced swimmer that it's actually not an issue. Like, you can still do the two-beat kick and it's not affecting how much you can focus on. your stroke, your entry, your pull, like that whole thing. Yeah. It happens with, I don't know, I'm not thinking about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Well, thanks for the question, Rand, and good luck. We'd love to hear an update if you can like work through this.

All right. Next question here is from Kate from Golden, Colorado, where Eric and I actually filmed part of our film. It wasn't quite in Golden, but we did spend some time in Golden for it. Yeah, I think Golden's awesome. Yeah. Hey, PENF. A few other sports podcast focus heavy on the latest studies coming out for optimal fitness, and it got me thinking, how much of your workouts is what your coach is deciding versus your preference? Do you have any say slash discussion? I can't believe I just said slash, discussion with your coach on what type of workouts you do. For example, if you read a study that a specific workout is more effective than what's in your plan, would you change your plan and talk to your coach about that? Or do you typically trust your coach

knows what's best? Just curious, since all three of you could be amazing coaches in your own right. Thank you for the vote of confidence, Kate. Yeah, yeah. Training well and being a good coach are two different things. And I believe coaching is quite the art form and a lot of communication and stuff. So have you guys ever gone off the rails and been like, no, no, no, I know what I'm. I need V-O-2 max intervals today, not like threshold intervals. Have you ever done that?

No, no. I personally like having a coach so that I don't have to put in all that extra thought. but there have been a handful of times in the time that I've worked with Paulo where I've seen a new study come out or I've seen other people doing things or I've just had a feeling like I want to do X and I've approached him with it and he's said oh yeah well you know like I read a paper about this and that and I think it's not effective here's the paper you can read it yourself and here's why we're doing what we're doing or yeah if you want to do some of that

in a couple months there's a good time so but it's it's not like a it's on this micro scale of not, today I'm just doing a five-hour round. Yeah, right, right. Yeah, Paula, do you kind of agree with that? Yeah, I never go off the plan. Yeah, and this is not the same as like, here are the power zones you're supposed to be in

and you're like, oh, I actually overdid it. Or like adding more time to your long run. This is like switching the style of workout on the day. That's what we're talking about. Well, I think that the way, the times where this is actually okay is if you're a boarding a hard session for an easier session, but I would always like have a conversation with the coach about it.

Because sometimes it's not smart if you're like fatigued, you're getting sick or bang your head on a rock at the bakery to do like a hard VOTU max session. For example, yeah. Yeah. So I think sometimes not like chickening out of a workout, but just like making

the best choice can sometimes mean making something easy or just taking it off. Yeah. And I think with regards to saying I want more run volume or I want higher intensity bike things like most coaches are going to recognize that like at least at our point in life like we have might have a good sense of what we actually need or and certainly a thing that sounds motivating

to us and that's that's very valuable to like I want to do this kind of workout exactly okay how can we work that in exactly it's going to give you confidence yep love that okay and last question here this is from sarah hi tripod sadly i just had to back out of my first full iron man Iron Man, California, two days ago due to a few injuries and then to be diagnosed with an autoimmune disease. Oh, wow. Currently going through all of the emotions, grief, feeling like I've failed, pride in knowing I'm making the right decision, and also relief as I've been feeling awful in training for months.

I've been a triathlete for 13 years and it's my first attempt at a full. I did all the things to try to stay healthy, hired a coach, massage, physical therapy, prioritizing rest, chiropractic, seeing my GP, general practitioner, when needed, Good nutrition, on and on and on. Do you have any advice on how to make peace with pulling out of your A-race and feeling devastated? Thank you for all the great weekly content. It's nice meeting you guys in Oceanside and seeing your film. My partner reminding me that maybe this is my opportunity to get back to seeking adventure rather than medals.

I think he's on to something, Sarah. So this is a little bit similar to the question we had about DNFing, but I think when you can't even start and that there are big reasons why you can't start, it feels a little different. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's actually like a very mature decision. Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. I think a couple of things. Like this definitely, it reinforces. Like, Iron Man's are hard and a lot of things have to go right in the buildup and not getting injured. And that's why when you cross the finish line of an Iron Man's, it's a really, it's a really big deal. And, you know, I guess I just, I would vocalize that, that it's not like a, everybody can do it. It's no big deal, you know, just like they're just cranking out Ironman finishers.

It's, even though it's, whatever, you know, there's a lot of around the world each year. It's a really big deal. It's a big accomplishment. So I wouldn't give up on it if that still sounds exciting to you. But at the same time, like when I crashed and really hurt myself, prior to Extera Worlds a couple years ago. Instead of that, I went with Nick to Mammoth and the conversations that we had there or what spurred us on to actually make look for things where you can find them.

So in this moment, I do think it's a good opportunity for some reflection. And if you come out of that with no, Iron Man's really what I want to do, then awesome. If this gives you an opportunity to be like, you know what, I love the entire process and I don't actually care that much deep down. If I did the race, then yeah, maybe try some different stuff. Or, you know, just like- Well, you could always sign up for an Iron Man later. Yeah.

Like maybe your body's not ready right now to do this one. Exactly. But there's plenty every year. Yeah. You could do a long time. I don't think I would go into an Iron Man with feeling like I, you know, you're like, oh, I signed up. I might as well just go. If you actually are injured and have some health issues, I don't think that's a good call personally.

Depending on, obviously, it's your own personal decision based on how you feel. it sounds like a bad idea. Because Iron Man's are so hard. Maybe if it was a half, you could almost like... Get through it. But Iron Man's are so long. And I think the... It's easier to sit here as like a group of fit people who are all healthy and be like,

yeah, just go try it. But you know that feeling when you're not fit and you're not ready to do even like a workout? And you're trying to force yourself through it? It's so mentally crippling. Yeah. Like, why would you put yourself through that? When you could just do one a year later? Yeah, like you want to do an Iron Man someday.

Like, it does make you a failure that you didn't do it this month. Yeah. You just, your journey just got extended a little bit. This is where my mind is going with this. And I don't want to be like the, oh, look at the bright side of this. But this is my perspective on this is that, without getting too schmaltzy about it, I feel like life is really about desiring and working towards things and having things. and having things to look forward to a lot of the time.

And this is why I discourage people from getting into triathlon and doing an Iron Man a year later. Stretch this journey out, stretch this passion that you have out, as long as you can get juice out of it. And here you didn't have control over how much you've stretched this out. But now this goal that you have that you excitedly work towards, that you work hard towards, you get more opportunities to do that and refine it even more.

And I promise you crossing that finish line when you do, if you choose to, is going to feel so much sweeter. This is how I've kind of internalized my Wisconsin DNF to next week, is having something to work towards is often so much sweeter than actually getting the thing. And it's not like we all have this all the time, these passions that we want to go after. So like hold on to that.

Wait, when is your Iron Man? It's September 7th. Oh, so you still have a little bit of time. Like a few weeks, yeah. A few weeks, okay. Is your parents going? Are you going by yourself? I'm going by myself, yeah. But I feel good. I did a big session two days ago, and I kind of mimicked.

Yeah, I feel like, I feel like I was worried about the same injury that stopped me last time. And I did a long bike and a long run, and it didn't hurt at all. So I think it's not going to be an issue this time. Nice. Cool. Well, I think that's all we got for today. That's all we got for today. That's it. All right. Yeah, that's it. That's it. If you're a podcast supporter, you're going to get that email. Hope you enjoy it. Have a little laugh. You guys are leaving for France.

Yep. Yeah, if we do a podcast next week, we'll be tuning in French. Yeah. When you're listening to us, we will be flying over the Atlantic Ocean probably when you hear this. Jeez. Jeez. Yeah. But when you do hear this, you'll have a little bit more time to grab one of my signature kits.

And then the other call to action. Seriously, go follow Zach and Mimi on Instagram. They're awesome kids. And then donate to Flynn's ACL funds. Don't do that. And don't give us advice on Flynn either. Yeah, we've got enough. No, we like the advice.

I like all the advice on Flynn. Except one person sent me a picture of their wire hair pointer who just had the same surgery with their leg completely shaved. And I'm like, oh, fuck, he's going to be bald for like five more years, which is the rest of his life. Yeah, it's like slow growing, right? Flynn's fur grows so slow. So I'm going to ask if the surgeon can shave, like, the minimum amount of fur off. And then we're going to save it and glue it back.

on. You might as well, like, do both rear legs to make it look like intentional or something. No. Portuguese water dog. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Oh, no. Okay. Bye guys.

Bye. See ya.