That Triathlon Life Podcast - Discussing doping in triathlon, faster transitions, sprinting technique, river swim safety, and more!

Episode Date: April 27, 2023

This week we start off with a lengthy discussion about doping in triathlon. On Monday, pro triathlete Collin Chartier was caught for taking EPO, a performance enhancing drug. As ugly as it is, it's an important topic, and something we feel very strongly about. Despite this, we still did our best to answer your questions about triathlon. Questions about mountain bike fits, mental health in sport, racing full distance Ironman races as a young athlete, riding in flats, and more! To help support the podcast, as well as submit your own questions, head over to http://www.thattriathlonlife.com

Hey, everyone. Welcome to that triathlon life podcast. I'm Eric Loggerstrom. I'm Paula Finley. I'm Nick Colston. And we are coming to you from Flagstaff Still. It's actually kind of a crazy day. It's pouring rain outside all of a sudden. So that's a new thing. When we first showed up, it was snowing. Paula got the snow. I missed the snow while Nick and I were in Hawaii. And it's been nice and sunny ever since. Sorry, not sorry. Yeah, that's the weather report. Other things of note, we have Colleen Quigley's dog with us. So if there's like, If we have some sort of a dog situation erupt in the middle of this, sincerely apologize, but they're both conked out Flynn. Pi is a very good sleeper. She's a Bernese mountain dog. She is kind of the perfect dog for athletes because she enjoys a walk,

doesn't need it, doesn't request it, and is happy just to sleep and chill. So it's not like you have to get back from a workout and take her out instantly. So just like Flynn, basically. No, opposite of Flynn. Never needs any attention. But we forgot to introduce who we are, what we're doing, in case we have any new listeners.

Eric and I are both professional triathletes. Nick is a musician, amateur triathlet, and we chat with you guys every week answering questions. And we haven't really had a normal podcast for a while because we've kind of been on the road and traveling and everything. But we've tried to kind of stay consistent with our release dates on Thursday. And the moods have been up and down, the vibes have been up and down. But yeah, we're generally, I think, all in a good mood right now.

I would say. It was kind of crazy because I was thinking about doing the podcast as we were swimming this morning. I was like, man, I haven't opened

garage band and plugged in the microphones and done a normal podcast in so long because we were in... Wait a second. We were in Santa Monica with you

and then we were in Oceanside and then we all went to Flagstaff twice. You know, it's been a whole thing. So this is the first time my computer has been recording the podcast in over a month.

Yeah. Wow, that's kind of a trip. It is. But it'll be great. We're looking forward to it. We're flexible. We're doing all kinds of stuff. Yeah. When is, Nick, when is your big musical thing that you're doing? Well, just for a little background. Normally, what I do professionally is I write and produce music. So in the same place that I'm podcasting from right now, I record music for artists or TV shows or whatever.

Why, this audio quality is so tasty. So buttery. But this weekend I'm getting to do something super cool. and probably once in a lifetime thing for me. I'm playing a guitar for Trixie Mattel and her band at Stagecoach, which is a music festival in Coachella Valley that happens the weekend after Coachella happens. So that'll be really cool. It's on a big stage, and there will be a lot of people there.

It's very exciting. And then get back from that Saturday night, and then Sunday morning I'm going to race my first race of the year. It'll be an Olympic distance race in Orange County. So I'm trying to have my cake and eat it too here. Yeah, I got two questions. What time will you be going to bed on Saturday night? And what is the actual race on Sunday?

What's the name of it? Yeah, so, okay, that's a good question. Will you be going to bed? Yeah, that's the problem. It's like, the show is actually at Friday night at 11.30. So we won't be going to bed until very late on Friday night. And then on Saturday. It starts at 11.30 p.m.

Yeah. Our set starts 11.30 p.m. Yeah, the headliner, I think, is at like a just before us or something. So those things are like late and interesting. Yeah. And then, so I'm not sure when that will be. But wake up nice and early on Sunday because I have to drive down there and like register, like sign in because I can't go on Saturday. So I have to get like the VIP package and do that.

And it's called an Orange County Try series. It's in Lake Mission Viejo. Yeah, April 30th. I know. I hope that if any of the listeners are doing that race, definitely look out for me and come say hi. I'm excited for it. Yeah. I love the local triathlon scene. That'll be fun, man. Yeah. Anyway, that's the update on over here. So it's going to be a bit hectic. But you know what? This is what non-pro triathlon lives are probably like. Like, you know, your lives are hectic for one way and non-pros are hectic because they have a freaking nine to five that they have to take care of.

100%. Sometimes it feels like the grass is a little greener. That sounds kind of fun going to local triathlon relative to like we're getting ready for a race that has $100,000 to win. And I'm doing like the world championship cross triathlon. It is fun. It is fun. And I have more fun at the local races than I do at the 70.3s, I think. Even though the 7.3s feel more epic, I just put so much more pressure on myself. And these local races, like, I'm just going to go out and go as fast as I can. And it's going to be fun.

It's going to be over in two hours, you know? Yeah. For sure. Nick, Nick, this is all this weekend, right, that you're talking about? Yeah. Because we're actually also racing on Sunday morning. We'll probably be done before you even start because we're racing on the East Coast. And we haven't really talked about this at all anywhere, but we're both Eric and I racing the St. Anthony's Triathlon and St. Petersburg before we fly to Abiza. So we're up at altitude right now.

And part of the tricky part of altitude is timing your drop down to sea level in a window where you feel good. And usually that's like you race right away or you race in 10 days. Like three days or 10 days. So we had to leave here 10 days before Abiza. St. Anthony's happened to coincide with that kind of window. And it's kind of on the way to Europe. We get three hours into the time zone. We get down to sea level.

So we're both going to race Sunday morning. And then Sunday afternoon we'll fly over to Abiza and be there for the week before the big, big race. St. Anthony's is a little bit of a warm up. there's a lot of prize money actually and not a lot of people go to it so it's an iconic race that's been around forever we did it last year it's a cool course it's just an Olympic distance

so we're going to treat it kind of like as our pre-race pre-race brick before we go to Abiza who won it last year by the way I won last year Eric was fourth yep so if we win it's like but that was a good fourth it's like uh... crazy field like I went underneath

my old course record getting fourth place and there were three guys in front of me everybody was like within a minute It was crazy race. But it's 10K to win. So we feel like, okay, this trip to Abiza all in is costing us like about 10K. So if we can just go win St. Anthony's, we'll kind of pay for that whole travel and take the pressure off Abiza. Because the prize money in Abiza actually drops off quite a lot more than the PTR races did last year.

So I think to break even, I'd have to be like fifth or sixth. Anyway, that's another thing. But we're trying to get points. We're trying to get points. ETO points, long-term things. And maybe I'll win. Who knows? That's right. Who knows?

Who knows? Anything can happen? Maybe I'll win, right, honey? Right, Eric? I did a good run yesterday. Babe, you definitely could, but you don't have to. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Are we cool to move on to questions?

Yeah, I just want to address really quick before we, I think the first question is regarding this. And it felt really weird to, like, do a podcast recording today. It's Monday. The news about Colin Chardier, taking EPO, getting a three-year ban was released this morning. And there's been this, it's like a crisis in our. our sport almost. It's a really sad day. It affects everyone in triathlon. And it felt like, okay, we should, we should really address this is such an important topic. But then is it even

right to like go on and answer questions from the listeners after we talk about such an important thing? And that's kind of a dilemma I'm still having. But I do think that although it's sad, although it's terrible, although it's kind of like destroyed a lot of trust and everything, we still should keep some normalcy to the sport and what we do every week and bring positivity to the whole thing. So yeah, that's why we decided to still put this podcast out. We're not going to talk exclusively about this whole thing,

but we need to address it. Yeah. For people who don't know what Paul is talking about if you're not really up to date on triathlon things, a top professional, Colin Chartier, tested positive in, I think it was in early February or so, early this year for EPO. And there's, you can go see it on Instagram. He's posted about it.

Most professionals have kind of addressed it in some way. Lionel talked about it. Ben Hoffman talked about it. And Colin actually went on the how they train podcast and kind of made a statement. So by the time you hear this, there'll be plenty of ways you can go get all the details on it. But from our perspective, yeah, it's, it's really hard news to hear. because he's taken, you know, he's taking prize money away from people who are competing cleanly. The trust is broken.

You know, he says he started taking drugs at X date, and you really wonder when that actually is. It's kind of like the same thing that we went through with Lance Armstrong years ago. It's like, man, it just, it kind of pops your bubble and your excitement a little bit for competition and makes you just think about a lot of things. What is the question? The question is a different and specific question, so I still like the question, but I don't think we should let it direct us too much. Like, I think we should kind of just talk about it the way we want to talk about it. But the question is, does triathling have a doping problem?

In light of Collins' ban for using EPO is more needed to catch cheaters. So maybe that my question for you guys would be, because I don't ever think about it. I never think about pros cheating, really. something that comes up in my mind. And then all it takes is this little thing for me to be like, wait a second. Wait, who is this? Who else is this? Like he was, you know, he was hanging out with Lionel.

He was hanging out. I mean, McCall was part of it. And I kind of feels like now it's like when you get like, if you have a bike crash or a car accident. And then the next like three months, you're so on edge. Like every little thing. You're like, oh, what is that? Is that something in the road? Is this car coming towards me?

It's like now I kind of feel like that a little bit where I'm like, wait a second. Could this be a thing? Yeah, it's 100% a thing. It was shown. And I think the positive out of this is that he was caught, and it shows that testing can work doesn't always, but he was caught. And I don't think it's fair to associate,

like anyone that he's at a connection with with this incident. I think, I truly believe Lionel is totally clean. Yeah. I don't really reflect his actions on any other athlete or anyone that he was associated with necessarily. I did just listen to the How They Train podcast and was pretty disappointed, honestly. I mean, everything about this is disappointing,

but he did state and kind of blame this whole thing on his mental health and not being able to control how out of hand that got with the pressure and everything. And all of us feel pressure. All of us deal with the same emotions, but he turned this complete other way. And he was also, my impression from listening to him talk is that he didn't even want to be in the sport anymore. He didn't really enjoy it. He was

kind of over it. The pressure was too much. But he said in the podcast, he could not walk away from it because he'd put so much into it. So it's almost like he was he thought to himself, well, why the f f*** not? Just try this. If I get caught, I want to leave anyway. Who cares? And he doesn't, he didn't sound like he was going to be living the rest of his life with guilt. He sounded like, I'm gone from the sport. Peace out. Never coming. back. This is going to be not a thing in a month. And I don't care because I didn't want to race anyway. All the rest of us, like, we don't just get to walk away from this. We have to think about this as well. And this is impacting a lot. It's a total lack of empathy. I think for me, it's like,

a lot of people struggle with mental health. And like Paula said, there's a lot of pressure in the sport to perform. I think we have a very, pretty much of, great sport where I don't get daily pressure from any of our sponsors like about races and stuff. You know, Paula had a race that she wasn't super happy with in Oceanside. One of our sponsors came up to her after the race and was like anything you need. And just like we're here for you. Don't worry. Just, you know, just do your thing.

And I feel like we have a good sport in that way. And the ultimate disappointment here for me is that like, okay, if you had pressure and you have this, you have a mental health issue, like go get professional help from. a psychologist or, you know, a sports person, whatever it is, it's, you don't go to the cheating. This extreme. He also said that he like, not the answer. Ordered the EPO online, administered it himself.

I don't even know how or what, if that's even possible. But acting alone through this whole thing seems very unbelievable, that he had just figured out how to do it himself, did it himself, got caught, immediately went on a podcast to explain the situation. It's such a backwards story. of how you normally watch these things unfold, you know, where it's like kind of a systematic doping thing. Coaches are involved, doctors are involved.

He was certainly more like the first half of the Icarus documentary than the second half where they exposed the entire Russian state-sponsored system, at least according to him. And like, that's like back to your initial point, Nick, of now it's just like, it just made more questions and more doubts and not just, that really sucks. And for me, like the biggest thing, the big takeaway here is, I guess the part that I would want to say is that having, I think what we have with that triathlon life and Paula and I having grown up in the sport and like you Nick obviously are doing the sport because you love it. Like hanging on to that and and being open about this stuff of like cheating is not okay.

If you do cheat, this is how harsh the reaction from the community is. So ideally that comes into your mind if you are a person who has it in you to go down that dark pathway that you'll be thinking top of mind. I will be disappointing everyone so much by taking this shortcut versus thinking about how I'm going to be disappointing people by not being good enough. Which is kind of what Lionel said in his video. It's not about winning and cheating to win obviously. So there's a lot of like really well-spoken, articulate thoughts that have been out. been put out there by other professionals and even some of his sponsors who found out the same way we all found out, which is mind-blowing to me, that he wouldn't kind of reach out to his management

and his sponsors beforehand to let them know this was coming. When I first read it this morning, I'm like, is it April 1st? No, this is not. This could not be a joke. So, um, totally, totally insane. Very sad. And I still like to, or I still know that you can, can win big races in this sport clean because I've done it. I've seen people that are clean win. I mean, most people, I think are. But it's really, really sad when this kind of news comes out. And like Eric said, makes you doubt everything.

Well, then a follow-up question I have for you guys is when I hear something like this, to me, like that athlete doesn't exist anymore. I don't mean they don't exist. Yeah, but he doesn't care. That's the problem. No, no, no, totally, totally. He's done, right? He's gone. But, like, is a three-year ban for doing EPO?

Is that appropriate? No, it should be a lifetime ban, 100%. Yeah. Like, that's it. It's over. You didn't accidentally cheat. You did this, and you were hoping you wouldn't get caught. And now that should be it forever. Like, I can't trust you ever again.

Yeah, maybe some of these stories of, like, I was caught for a substance that I unknowingly ingested in a supplement or something. Who knows if that's true or not true, but having them come back after three years, if they truly believe and know themselves that it was not intentional. That's one thing, but going the path of intentionally cheating

should be a lifetime ban. And I think Colin knows that. If he ever came back to the sport, he would be completely unwelcome. And there's no point. And he doesn't even seem that upset about the fact that his triathlon career is now over. He wants to have a family,

he wants to live in normal life, and he said that openly in the podcast that he did with Jack. So it's, it didn't ruin his life, you know? It's like sociopath behavior, though. It's like, come in, drop this bomb on the sport and all these people that have supported you and they just peace out.

Like, sorry, guys, I guess this isn't for me anymore. But I'm glad I- With the $100 grand. Yeah. Right, because, and they can't take that money away from him because technically he's tested positive after that and he's saying he started in November. The PTO hasn't said anything yet,

and it's not that they're remaining silent. I think it's just that this is such fresh news that they don't want to come out in a rush. And there's so many things that need to be investigated still on their behalf. And time zones are different. It's like nighttime there. So we've gone back and forth

about this a little bit as an athlete board. And why aren't we speaking up? And it's just because it's so fresh. Because it's a board. It's not any one person. Like there needs to be a consensus on how to treat it. And the last thing to actually address this question, do we think this like how widespread is this

in your opinions obviously like not that we can really know I don't know I personally don't think that triathlon quote unquote has a doping problem like in the way that you think about cycling the history of cycling where there's this omerta this unspoken you know like hey we're all doing it but that's just what it's got to be I don't think triathons like that I think it is possible obviously to be in the gray zone

and in whatever's past the gray zone, fully cheating and get away with it. But I don't think it's like a widespread 50% of, you know, at least I personally have to believe that. Yeah, I don't think it's a widespread systematic issue. I do think that with the increasing prize money, attention the PTO's giving athletes, and, you know, money in sport will lead to more of these problems

because people are willing to do more, when there's more things on the line. So it is a problem. It might get worse. And it's just like kind of the nature of their being more money influxed into the sport. I mean, I feel it personally, way more pressure. Way more stress daily to perform

and thinking about races and thinking about when there's $100,000 on the line or a million dollars on the line and the potential impacts on my life it could have to win race after race. after race and make all this money. It's life-changing. So what are people willing to do to reach for that, you know? And we certainly did not get into the sport to make money. That's not, I mean, and even as the PTO came out, that was not our intention. But just the fact of the matter is,

is it just, like, culturally, that's a thing that kicks in. And you're like, oh, my gosh, like, I could win $100,000 versus, oh, my gosh, I could win $10,000. It's different. It is different. And if you're able to completely remove yourself from that, like impressive. But even us, like, you know, we have great sponsors and everything. And if we didn't win a race all year, we would be able to pay the bills. But it's still just it impacts your feelings and your thoughts about events.

Yeah, Eric's like you're stressed about results and pressure and money. And you didn't take EPO. You're just mad every day. We can cut that out. We can cut that out. But there's other ways to deal. with this pressure and we're all feeling it in different ways. Yeah. I guess my hope would be and I think the PTO, I've overheard Paul on board meetings

and stuff. I think the hope would be is that as the more money comes in, like an increase, a proportional increase in money goes into making sure that the anti-doping is ramped up. And I know that's top of mind for them because it's just, it's a natural thing as it gets more attention and more money. Yeah. Well, we're going to move on, but this This is like, we all woke up to text from other people about this. I facetined you guys from bed this morning to talk about it. We've been thinking about it a lot. I've been talking about it with people.

It's not like we're not thinking about it. This seems important. Like, I just want to stress what Paula said earlier about, like, it feels a little funny to just answer questions about normal state of triathlon when this is kind of like rocked us a bit, but we're going to try to do our best to do that. I think this episode might be a little, we might be laughing a little bit less as a result of that. hopefully we can still, you know, put out, keep some normalcy, put out something that's interesting and, but we want to address it.

Yeah, our point with this more normal format from this point forward is not to say, okay, this is done, let's move on to the next thing. Right, exactly. You guys sent in a bunch of questions this week that are really good and we want to answer them. So we're going to do that and not just turn this into a call and shardier podcast because it's a little bit like we also don't want to give him all of this attention. I mean, it's happened already today.

No, it's not even, to me it's not about him. It's about the act of it and what it means, the implications, the ethical implications of it. And like how it shifts our perspective on something that we, you know, it's part of, it's for most of the people listening, it's part of our identity. And we can't, it's weird. Like in other businesses, it's almost like if you cheat to get ahead, like to you have a meeting with the CEO, you take him out to dinner or you're like, I don't know, something like that. It's almost like it's accepted in other worlds. Like, yeah, you've got to do whatever it takes to get ahead. But in sport, it is just like it's the dirtiest, dirtiest thing.

That's not the point. Yeah. At least you hope that's the page that everyone's on. Yeah. Okay, well, as difficult as a shift, this will be, here's the next question. The next question is from Claire. Claire, sorry that you are the transitional piece here. But, oh, speaking on transition, this question is about transition.

I'm targeting Sunshine Coast 70.3, Queensland, Australia in September, and I'm determined to PB and finally go under five hours after watching many inspirational moms crush races post baby. My fastest time of the course is five hours, 12 minutes. I'm confident I can improve my bike and run, but feel that a few extra minutes in transition could cost me my goal time. Any tips on little things that can wipe time off transition? For example, elastic laces, what do you use, gear layouts? Do those play a role? Thanks for continuing to share as much of your stuff. as you do and being such a great role models for my girls and me from Claire.

Oh, thanks, Claire. You're welcome. Doing our best. Can I give you my opinion on this before you guys say this as an age grouper, at least the thing that's made the biggest difference from me? I think it's easy to focus on things like laces and gear layout, and I do think you guys should talk about how you do it and things that you found out because it is important. But for these 70.3s especially, sometimes these transition zones are you have to run so far that running slow or running fast is by far the biggest difference

in what's your transition time is going to be. I notice that when I'm like, if I get out of the water and I'm gas, and I'm like barely running up a boat ramp or something like that, that takes up so much more time than if my socks are already in my shoes ready to go or whatnot.

You know, the way that I think people like to optimize those like half a second versus two seconds when it's like you're a minute slower running if you went too hard. There's low-hanging fruit. There's low-hanging fruit. Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that.

But that's kind of my age group perspective because you guys all run fast out of the water. But what do you, like, to Claire's specific question, what are the things that kind of can make it once you actually get to your area to transition quickly? Yeah. I think some of these things are not necessarily, like you said, Nick, you might save a second or two.

And it's not even about the time. It's more just about like the flow of it. So it is a lot easier to get into. that have elastic laces on them, for example. I'd recommend that to everyone. There's no point in sitting there and doing up your laces, having things kind of like organized and in a flowing way so that you know where they are and it's not stressful.

And I think another thing is a lot of the time in age group transition, it's very tight and compact and you don't have a lot of room to kind of lay out your things how you might want them. So just thinking about that and being organized in that way. But Nick, your advice about just getting out of the water and getting on it and running faster will save you more time than any of these little tricks and tips that Eric and I might have

that aren't even really helpful to the age group athletes, maybe they're more suited to the professionals where one or two seconds can make or break your race. I think a big thing with transition is to like be in the right, have like the right mental approach to it and that is like smooth as fast. Like getting there and like you've just run out of the water

as fast as you can per Nick's tip and then like, trying to rush through transition versus like being calm there and not messing anything up. Because if you're trying to get off your wetsuit and you're just doing it so frantically that you rip it or the zipper breaks or something like this versus like being calm and efficient, I think that's going to like ultimately net you the fastest transition time. Yeah. So another thing that really helps, sorry to interrupt your arc, but putting like a body glide oil type thing on your swimskin or your wetsuit will really help it slide off. easier. And Eric ran into trouble

in Oceanside getting a suit off. So I think that's a big issue for people is kind of getting stuck in their suit. And if you can cut the legs so the openings are bigger at the bottom and loob it up so it slides off. It could save you time. Are you using that on your whole body or are there specific spots that

you want to use it on? Oh like legs, arms, neck. Yeah, so those spots where like the wetsuit gets caught. Yeah. I think the best course of action here with the entire thing is practice. Take your wetsuit to the pool. try to take it off real fast. If there's a spot that it obviously gets hung up, put a little baby oil there. Yeah. If there's a spot that's obviously rubbing your neck or your armpit, put body glide there.

And same thing with transition. Like set it up in your driveway, have your husband or your wife like spray you with the hose so you're a little bit wet and then try to go through your process and put on stuff quickly and jump on your bike. And it'll be pretty obvious really quickly. Oh, wow, I should do this instead of this. I should put my hat on after I, put on my watch or, you know, whatever, stuff like that. But yeah, the real obvious things are have a triathlon shoe, have elastic laces, get yourself a race belt. It's like very, very basic things. And triathlon shoe, you mean like a trathlon bike shoe, right? You don't need a triathlon specific run shoe or anything like that because some people do make those. Yeah.

You don't even need a trathlon specific bike shoe. That'll just be easier. That's easier and quicker. And are there any like, does it matter which brand of elastic laces or? Are they all pretty much the same? Do they work similarly? I just ordered Eric a pair on Amazon based on, which we'll get here the fastest. Okay, so got it.

They're all elastic. I mean, you can go to your tri-shop and talk to them about it, or you can just look at them on the internet, whatever, and kind of get a feel for the system. But both Paula and I don't really use the type where you, you know, like pull on the end of the lace and then cinch down like a pinch thing. Yeah. We just put our shoes in there.

We put the laces in in the normal style and then like tie them off at the end. So just the elastic lace stretching is what allows you to put your foot in. And we're not like cinching it down after the fact. Yeah, any of the ones that have a fancy system, I would say, aren't worth using. You just need a piece of elastic and put it through as if your laces, like Eric said. Simplest way to do it. Yeah. Cool.

Well, hopefully that works, Claire. Under five hours would be a great achievement. That's great. Next question here is a quick one. And after St. Anthony's, you guys are going to PTO Europe. Is that what it's technically called in Ibiza? Is it the European Open? Yes.

European Open. Yeah. So, Hey, Paul and Eric, been an avid listener to the podcast for a while and enjoy following both your journeys as athletes. Noting you're both going to be in Ibiza, is there any chance that there will be a TTR fan meet similar to what you've done at other races on the island or any days prior to you both racing? Best wish is and good luck.

I'm racing my first age. group world champs, Elliot. If we don't have anything planned and we've had a few questions about if we're doing a pop-up, no or not, that's logistically really, really challenging, especially being in Europe, bringing any kind of hats or anything over there is not possible. But I don't know, maybe we'll do like a coffee shop meetup or something. We have not planned anything.

But if we do decide to, we definitely have to get there, scope it out, see how busy we are in the week. It's not our priority, but it obviously is something we'd love to do if there's time. And if we do, it'll be on the TTL Instagram page. Yeah. It's kind of like locations and times. The PTO events are definitely a little bit more labor intensive with like the media stuff that you have to do beforehand.

So there's a lot less openings between training and that for us to, you know, hang out at a coffee shop. But we'll see what we can do. Nick won't be there, unfortunately. Yeah, sadly. Okay, next question here's from Everett. Greetings all. I'm signed up for Exterra Portland and I'm going to get my first mountain bike fit.

Any thoughts on how I should approach this. compared to a TT fit. I'm sure the fitter will know what to do, but I'm not sure what to prioritize or ask about. As an aside, Eric, do you have any tips for training and racing at Sierra Portland? Thanks so much, Everett.

So, I mean, Eric, do you think there's a difference between someone getting set up for a mountain bike and a triathlet who's already used to an aggressive position getting set up on a mountain bike? I honestly don't know enough about this to like speak super intelligently to it.

For me, the biggest thing is getting the saddle height right. And then a mountain is, mountain bike is a little different than a triathlon bike and that if you like get a really upward angle stem or a really downward angle stem or you make your stem three centimeters longer like that's seriously going to impact the handling of the bike when you're trying to get over roots and maneuver it and stuff so this is a tricky one like if you just if you just make your road bike stem longer it's really not that impacting that much versus a mountain bike is kind of today's mountain bikes are kind of set up around like an 80 millimeter stem and if you go to a 120 you definitely

need some time with that so i would i would trust your fitter that's what i do and then um yeah just make sure the saddle height is is correct my my intuition is telling me yes there probably is a difference between a mountain bike specific athlete and a triathlet and their flexibility but the fitter is going to discover that when they're testing out your body so let them know i guess but there'll be there should be a conversation that happens during this whole thing anyway. Totally. And it's just so much less finicky than a triathlon bike fit where like your elbows have to stay in one place, your hands have to stay in one place, you cannot move, you need to be comfortable in that exact

position for four hours. Like a mountain bike, you're all over the place and it's almost like what is going to make the bike handle better, you know, could arguably be more of a priority. And then Everett also was wondering if you had any tips about Exeterra Portland, like maybe just like how technical is it, how. ready should ever be for it to be a technical course or whatnot? I would say it's not a very technical course,

but if you ride it really hard and fast, it gets exponentially more technical just because of the turns and there's blackberry bushes so you can't 100% of the time see how sharp the corner is and stuff like that, but there's no rock gardens, there's no drops, there's no jumps.

Right. You know, the most technical thing about it is it's not really a purpose-built mountain bike path, versus kind of like a hiking trail that works for mountain biking. So honestly, like the one I wrote it the day before the race, I thought it was a little bit boring, but then when I did it at full speed, it's super fun. Yeah.

So there's like a couple of punchy hills, but for the most part, I would just, I don't know, just practice your turning. Because if you can turn well on the tight trails, then you'll pick up a lot of time and save a lot of speed, not having to accelerate, save a lot of energy, not having accelerate out of them as much. I'm curious.

Now, you've done a bunch of these, and it's definitely something I'm interested in. and I'm sure there's a lot of listeners that are potentially interested in this as well. Portland's not very technical. Are any Xterra is very technical? Like, pretty much if you ride a mountain bike frequently enough, do you think you have the skills to do an Xtera?

Or are there some races where there are jumps and rock gardens and wet roots, cambered wet roots? Yeah, there are courses that are a little bit more technical than others, but everything that I've ever been to, you could get off your bike and walk down if you wanted to. like the course that I'm going to do in Alabama, Exetero Oak Mountain in a couple of months, that is probably,

that's probably the most technical one that I've done. And they're, I think blood rock is like the gnarliest thing. I don't know. Having come from Bend and ridden through some lava rock, it was not that big of a deal. But people crash on it. And if you're kind of like wondering if you have the skills,

it's pretty obvious when that kind of stuff comes up and you can get off and you can walk down it. It's not a thing where it's like a triple black, double black diamond, and you literally can't even walk down it. Nothing like that in Xtera. I think people who are pure mountain bikers would, for the most part, be bored with a lot of the Xtera courses. But people who come from just a road background are probably going to think that they're fairly technical and engaging and challenging. So it's kind of a tough blend they have to strike. Okay. Cool. Cool. Thanks. Thanks for that. Next question here is from Amanda.

Hi, everyone. I had a question about sprinting on the bike. In this week's video, when Eric was biking with that other guy, I think referring to Seth, he looked like he was using his entire body to sprint, particularly using his arms and legs, so it looks like the bike is tilting from side to side. I think it looks foreign to me, mind you, an untrained eye, because I imagine Eric and Paula can absolutely fly in an arrow position. I also imagine there isn't much sprinting in a 70.3-3-ddistance. Does the sideways movement allow you to use all your muscle power so it propels you faster than staying arrow? Is that the bike sprint form?

in quotes. I'm so curious. We'll keep watching and listening. You guys inspire me to get out the door and exercise. I listen to the podcast while I mow my lawn. It's so great. Yeah, I guess I never really thought about this,

but like how often are you sprinting out of the saddle in a 70.3? And basically never. I mean, it's so often. Occasionally out of a corner. Out of a corner you can. But these guys, like the sessions that they're doing, these ITU athletes up here, and us too, actually, yesterday we did this session,

is 30 seconds, maximum effort, power output. times a bunch of times. So he's not, I mean, ITU racers do get out of the saddle and accelerate out of corners, but in this video, Seth was like going maximum effort for 30 seconds. And that actually is the proper technique for sprinting on a road bike, which might look for. And if you've never watched a bike race or the tour to France or an ITU race online and you're just watching Iron Man races, I can see how that might look incorrect or weird or dangerous.

Yeah, it's certainly not an efficient. way to pedal your bike if you're going to be going for two hours. So yes, an arrow position will win out. But if you, like an ITU race, basically, they typically have like 50 U-turns in them. And they have to do that over and over and over again. And I think when he was doing that, he was, you know, his peak power was probably about 1,000 watts and he was probably averaging about 700 for the full 30 seconds. And that is just, if you're in the saddle, you cannot go that hard. You're going to get dropped from the group. This is a make an attack or not get dropped tactic.

It's funny because we're just talking about mountain bike. Like mountain bikers are so keenly aware of this like body bike separation. Right? You go around a corner, the bike is sideways. You go over bumps. You try to keep your body kind of steady and your bike kind of takes these rollers or whatever. And when you're sprinting, the same thing happens, right? The bike is moving underneath you, but your body should not be moving as much.

But I think if you're ride a road bike, like, that might be something you never even encounter. You go around turns kind of like you go around turns. You're always on top of the bike. So I do get why someone would be confused by this. And it probably takes some getting used to, like, muscularly to separate the bike from your body the way that Seth was doing. And he does it well too. Seth is a very skilled rider, obviously. He's actually a really, really good mountain bike rider, off-road rider.

He intuitively and, like, just through growing up on a bicycle, has really good skills and awareness on his bike. For example, if I sprinted 30 seconds on a bike, I would feel like I was doing that, but it would not look close to that. So there definitely is some side-to-side motion just so you can use your arms and use your whole body to get the most amount of power out. But Seth definitely accentuates that because he's such a good bike handler and bike rider. Yeah, if you go watch any video, you know, just like Google Tour de France sprint. It'll look like that. You're going to see a whole bunch of guys that look like their bikes are about to break in their sideways.

Yeah, yeah. Right. And is it is the point to get the most amount of leverage through the pedal? and the cranks. Yeah. Basically, you're pushing down, as you're like pushing down on the pedals, you're pulling up on the bike,

so you're kind of going in opposition to generate the most power through the cranks, yeah. Yeah, that's really cool. That's really cool. And that was a really cool part of the video too to see Seth like just go, go, go, go, go like that. Yeah, it's fun. Yeah, I miss that.

We don't get to do that kind of thing much with 70.3 train because, like you said, don't do that that often. Yeah, that's fun. Cool. Okay, next question here. In one of the pods, I thought Eric and Paula mentioned they swim in the Deschutes River. I live near a comparable-sized river to the Deschutes, and there are several small lakes in the area as well. I usually swim in the lakes during the spring, summer, and fall.

But I'm intrigued by swimming in the river and nervous about it at the same time, especially midsummer when the small lakes can get pretty warm. River swimming just seems more hazardous in my mind. Can you share your thoughts, some best practice tips, and possible workouts for river swimming? please keep the great content coming thanks so you guys have mentioned before like you swim slowly up and then like fly down right like that's that's one way to to do it but what about if you haven't been in a river before or if you're nervous about it i think it's important to know the river well and some rivers the current is just way too strong to make that even possible we swim in the river not just i mean it's it's more of a convenience factor we definitely would prefer to swim in a lake if it was like one

or the other and they were each as convenient as the other. But we know the disjutes is really clean. We know the speed of the water is pretty predictable and we have a safe place to do it where there's not like motorized boats or anything. But it is a true point that rivers are more dangerous. You can get swept away. There can be things coming down the river that you don't see. Things underwater. Things underwater. So it is a little more hazardous, especially if you're just jumping in your local river for the first time ever and it's not like a normal place where people might get in the water. So yeah, I think doing some investigating. Don't go alone.

Do some research beforehand to know if like the water's clean, obviously, and if there's hazards. I think certain times of year are more dangerous than others in terms of debris coming down. Like if there's been a lot of rain and it's kind of picking up stuff from the side of the river floating down, that can be more dangerous. But we really like it and we kind of structure the workout where we'll go swim a little bit harder upstream. And it'll take four times as long to get to a certain. certain point. And then we'll flip and use the downstream as a bit of a recovery because you're

literally fine going under a minute per hundred coming back. So we don't usually do structured workouts in the river. It's more like aerobic endurance, continuous swimming. Four K choice. Naturally going harder upstream easier down. And I'm thinking of like little things that I would try to make myself safe with. Like do you always want to start going upstream so that you don't miscalculate and then spend forever. Make sure that you can swim upstream. A couple of times we did that, just to mix it up, we went downstream first.

And just psychologically, it was super difficult because it felt like we were floating down for way too long. And I'm like, oh my gosh, we are never getting back. And it took us 35 minutes to swim upstream. So, yeah, unless you know the river well, like I said before, it's definitely better to go upstream first. And like maybe even like scouting out,

what if I did miss the spot when I was coming back? Like, you know, like, pick a spot, pick a thing that you see that's like, okay, here's where I turn back and go upstream. But like, if you miss it, what is downstream? Like, is there a little... Waterfall. Yeah.

Totally, totally. Oh, now I'm flying all of a sudden. Okay. This is not where I thought I'd be right now. Oh, totally. It's totally a factor of knowing the river, knowing what you're getting into, and having exit points if needed.

Yeah. At every point of when we're swimming in the Deschutes River, we can get out. It's not like there's huge cliffs on either side and we're stuck. So in case of an emergency, we can get out. It's pretty shallow and we have each other. Maximum caution. And you two are superhuman,

but I always recommend for all age rupers to swim with one of those like those little inflatable buoys that drags behind you. So you can grab onto them if anything happens. Wet suits, buoys. Wet suits kind of make you float. But I think those swim balls that you blow up and attach to your waist, you don't feel them when you're swimming. but they offer a little more visibility

so that boats could see you and flotation so you could hold on to it, most importantly, if you panic. And I think you can also put GoPro's in them, how yeah? And snacks, like, depending on the one. It's on my list of things that we should do for TTL, a really cool drag behind swim buoy for adventures. I would buy one.

I would put it on a list. I'll have a GoPro slot. It'll have a cliff bar spot. Phone slot. Workout, paper slot. We need all the things. Waki-talkie. Yeah, it's going to say.

But I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure like Zoot makes one, Blue 70 makes one. Yeah, they exist. They are readily available. Yeah, cool. Cool. Great.

Great question. Thank you. Next question is from Jack. Hey, T, T, L. I'm from Boston. Yeah, Boston. Training for my first 70.3 and first triathlon in general. Oh, boy.

This year, and been loving, listening to the pod and watching your videos throughout my training in the last six months. My question is, do you guys ever read any sports psychology-type books? And if so, are there any you have really identified with? I love hearing the different approaches of people like Rich Roll, David Coggins and Steve Magnus,

et cetera. And listening to you all and Kate discuss the hard mental side of the sport has me curious. Thanks for all you do, Jack. Yeah, 100%. My favorite one is probably, I don't know where sports psychology overlaps or whatever, but the obstacle is the way.

Yep. I really get into like the kind of philosophical, specifically stoicism type stuff. And that one's huge for me. And the general premise of it is that, like, yes, life throws you lemons, but then you can make lemonade, right? Like, this thing that seems like the end-all be-all you got injured and you got a stress fracture seems awful and terrible. But if you take that as an opportunity to rebuild yourself and come back better and focus fully on making yourself a better use of doesn't happen in the past, you could easily argue that six months from now you're so much better off than if it hadn't happened. And I think that's a powerful mindset.

I can I just say the thing that I So I got distracted as you were reading this Because Paula read a YouTube comment to me earlier About somebody who like tried to say hi To me in transition or something at Oceanside And it was something like I can't believe you treat listeners this way And I just started thinking about it because of this person

Talking about how listening to our podcast And watching the YouTube videos Has you know been a positive impact for them And I just want to say like if you If you did Whoever you are that said that in transition I probably had headphones on, and I think both Paul and I really make such a concerted effort, and we truly enjoy saying hi to people at races, just like Nick.

I didn't realize the context. You're saying that this person tried to say hi and that they perceived as you not responding to them? The YouTube channel was like, I will never buy anything you endorse because you don't say hi to people who watch your YouTube channel. It races. And that is totally not true. Yeah, it's not true. especially right morning when you might have headphones in

it's like there's a lot going on and if you're not directly in front we might not see you or hear you but we go out of our way to say hi and make time to say whatever we need to people that come up to us especially Eric especially Eric. Sorry, that's why I got distracted. Just like hearing that it like bums me out a little bit because like we care so much about it

and that's the entire reason what we do the podcast and make the YouTube channel is because we enjoy that connection. Yeah. Apologies if I've had, if any of us have ever had headphones and missed you when you said something, but we love it. This is like the brutal thing about social media is like we get 100 good comments and one mean one. And then that like impacts your day. And that's why social media can suck sometimes because it definitely affects Eric. And I thought about deleting this comment, but I actually just like thought it was funny because of how untrue it is.

It's not true. Yeah. So, anyway, yeah, that's. Well, he had good things to say about Paula. She was super friendly and said hi to him. I'm just a dick. Eric, after the way you disregard people who watch your YouTube channel, I will not be purchasing anything you endorse.

Paula was super nice when I saw you guys in transition at Oceanside, but you would not be bothered to even say hi from a distance. From a distance? Did this person just like wave or something? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Okay, let's get a next question. Okay, got it.

Got it. Okay, next question here is from Shelby. Hi, TTR. I have an injury-related question. Last year I did my first Iron Man at the age of 18. Oh, that is young. And went just under my 12-hour goal at Iron Man, Canada in Pentate. How do you pronounce this?

Penticton. Penticton. I think? Penticton. I've only ever heard it said Penticton. Got it. Penticton. And also managed to get my 2023 Kona slot by winning my age group.

This year I have two full Iron Mans, Cordillane in June, and Kona in October. The problem I've been having in last year's Iron Man prep, and this year as well as I'm constantly injured. Currently working through thoradic, nope, thoracic, thoracic, thoracic. That's the one. First try. Thoracic outlet syndrome in my shoulder.

I'm a top pack swimmer, so I'm not worried about this, and a knee injury that I am very worried about as running is my weakest. Can't seem to go more than a month or two of solid training without something coming up and having to take two to four weeks almost completely off running. No idea what to do.

I do strength training. I eat enough and work with a coach. coach. Could this be my body still developing? Am I too young to be doing this distance of training and racing? I'm definitely still going to be on the start line in June, just probably not very run fit. I would love your opinion. Thanks for the pod and the videos. Absolutely love you guys. Shelby. How old is Shelby? Yeah, I put this in there. She's 18. Oh, 18. Because I do think it's an interesting topic for someone who's that young and fully just going into Iron Man right away. And she's clearly aware of it herself that maybe that's the reason that she keeps

kind of breaking down is because she's not fully developed yet or her body's still changing and can't support that load of training. And often we see Iron Man athletes peaking in their 30s. So they've had decades of base training, making their body resilient, getting used to the training and developing kind of speed when they're younger and then transitioning to that more ultra-long training as they get older. So I don't know if there's a right or wrong answer of like, no, you're way too young to do Iron Man,

but I do think that that's probably the factor. My longest run in training ever is like 20 kilometers. And I think, yeah, I'm obviously at an age now where I could do an Iron Man and train for an Iron Man, but at 18, there's no way in the world that my body could have held up to the volume that's required to complete that long of a race and be competitive at it. Same.

I was just trying to run high school cross country and transition to college cross country. And if I had tried to do Ironman volume training coming from a swim background, I would have been constantly, like injured more than I was. Yeah. I think there's just, there's certainly a phase where you just need to like slowly, very cautiously, without any sort of like goal here to like build up run volume. Yeah. And let your knees and everything get on board.

I totally like respect if it's Flynn, no. If it's this person, if it's Shelby's goal to do Iron Man and she's so passionate about Iron Man. And I even think like Taylor Nib, her ultimate goal is to do Iron Man. That's what she's most passionate about. But she's taken this path of developing her speed first, racing some ITU, transitioning to 70.3. and I do feel that the half distance is pretty safe for someone of any age to race at. I think the training's not a lot different than Olympic and sprint distance. So maybe my advice for Shelby would be to scale back on the goals with Iron Man right now

and try to be faster at the half distance before stepping up. That'll allow you to kind of cut your volume down, but increase the intensity and maybe be healthier. So my question would be whether you're doing long distance or even short course stuff could it be that you're eating what society tells you is healthy you think you have a well-rounded diet

but then you get blood work done and you actually find out that you have an iron deficiency or a ferretin deficiency or something like that and at that point is it worth getting so into it that you're getting blood work done to check if you have these things or should you just focus on trying to eat healthy train healthy, not overtrain.

Yeah, I don't think it's ever a bad idea to get some blood work done to test and make sure that you're not kind of already starting in a hole and that the training that you're doing is just going to dig a hole any deeper. I think, for me anyway, like the different,

I would ask yourself, like, why are you trying to do an Iron Man? Why is it important that happens this year versus training for an Olympic distance? And I do think you can over train for anything, obviously, but doing an Ironman, there are definitely certain pressures and certain advice out there that say you should run, you know, a 22-mile long run before you do it,

and these things that push you towards a higher volume when maybe Olympic distance, you wouldn't feel the same need to go out and do that high volume, which could ultimately injure you as your body developing. Yeah. Yeah. Paul, you feel similarly? Yeah, for sure. Blood work's never a bad idea,

and there's a difference between eating enough calories and then just like the nutrient breakdown of what you're eating. So, yeah, that's a factor for sure. But I think the bigger issue, not issue here, but the more obvious answer is the distance. Yeah, 18, man. That is so young to be doing something so extreme. But good for you for having at least the willpower to go through that. Yeah.

I mean, this is always kind of an interesting thing for me because like if you're 18, you can go hike the Pacific Crest Trail. Right. Like that is a huge, that's a huge toll on your body. and if you, I don't know, if you're kind of like framing an Ironman like that of like, I'm going to go do this insane one-off thing. I think the issue here is if you're trying to do it fast

with competitively. Multiple times a year. Yeah, exactly. That's where it gets tricky with your like long-term health. Yeah, yeah, cool. Well, good luck, Shelby. Let us know.

Let us know. Next question here and also our last question from Jake. Hi, team. I'm another Kiwi fan of the pod and vlog since day one, day oner. I'm at the pointy end of age group racing. I swim about the same as Nick. You swim about the same as Nick and you're at the pointy end of age group racing?

Wait, and then bike similar to Paula and run similar to Eric. That is a huge contrast in sports skills. That's amazing. I would get you to the point of end. Wow. You were passing a lot of people on the bike and on the run. Let me tell you. Wow.

Okay, so the advice and stories I always feel personal and I get a lot from the show. Keep it up. Question about getting a flat in a race. close to T2 would you have to be to ride it in? And how hard do you ride it? There are frequent stories of pros getting flats and being close enough to T2 that they don't fix it, but ride it in. Obviously, lose the group they're in, but how hard can you ride on a rim? And what about aluminum versus carbon? Would a technical course be different to 5K of straight, flat road? Has this ever happened to you? Kia, caha, and much love, Jake. Wow. So, I mean, my number one piece of advice to you, Jake, is learn how to

swim better. If you're as fast as Paula on the bike and Eric on the run, maybe focus on that swim for a little bit. No, Nick, I think that you're not a bad swimmer, especially when you upload to Strava, your swim times. Like, you're a decent swimer. I'm fine, I'm fine. But if he's actually biking as fast as you and running as fast as Eric, then that swim is, relatively speaking, is like a huge weakness. That's like eight, I mean, whatever. It's not important because that's not the question. but I just, it kind of warms my heart to know that there's someone else who has similar, like low-hanging fruit like that. He can still be that fast, so that's great.

But what do you think? It's a good question about the rims and the flats. And it's definitely a question for bike tech with Eric, but is there a difference between tubular and tubes for riding in on the rim? Like if you're tube, or not tubular, tubeless. Like if I have a tubeless tire and it flats, can I ride it in for a couple K? that destroy my wheel? I wouldn't, I think I would be okay riding for 5K on a flatted,

tubed or tubeless wheel without turns. The turns is where it gets pretty sketchy and you're going to have to go very slow. Try to keep that on there. Another thing to consider with pros is that a lot of us get wheels for free. And if we absolutely destroy that wheel en route to winning $10,000, sponsor is going to send a new wheel. Totally fine. If you have to.

Yeah, but that shouldn't be. that sounds like a very privileged answer. Like, are we going to wreck the wheel or not? That's what I'm saying. We're less concerned about the extreme, the definite possibility that it could totally break the wheel. Yeah. I don't, I don't, yeah, it really depends.

If the smoother the road, the better, and I would still try to, like, if it's a front flat, don't get in the arrow bars. Like, try to keep the weight on the back wheel if you can, stuff like that. But if it's, if it's like truly 100% flat, I would not be going maximum speed just because your margin for air

if you have to break or do anything is not, you don't really have a margin for it. Yeah, obviously the advantage of a tubeless tire is that you think that you hope the sealant is going to seal it so it will have at least some tire pressure in it. Even if it's 20 PSI, you're riding on a little bit of cushion versus a tube wheel will go totally flat. You'll be literally riding on the rim.

I think I'd be a little more hesitant. and you can hear it kind of grinding. Yeah, oh my God. I'm getting anxiety just from thinking about it. Yeah, also that comes back to like if you're whatever race it is that you're doing the Malibu Trathlon, is it worth ruining the wheel, maybe crashing? Like I said initially, we have.

It can be dangerous to people around you as well. It's not just your own safety at that point. So if it really is 5K and you're in the middle of an age group field where the roads are pretty busy already, it might be better just to pull over and fix it. And that's why we advise everyone to definitely race with a flat kit and be competent in changing it so that even if it takes five or ten minutes, it's the safer way to go. You'll save your wheel. And maybe you'll make up that time at least a bit of it by riding at a normal speed into transition.

Yeah. This was more of an issue I faced in ITU because we would always have wheel pits every lap. So you were never more than two or three K from the wheel pit. And at that point, if you get a flat at the far end of the course, the wheel pit's coming up, should you ride it out? And oftentimes, I mean, every time, yes, I would, because you're not riding in an IT race with a flat repair kit. So in those cases, I would always ride to the wheel pit, which never happened to me that often.

And if you're pretty fast, like, if you're as fast as Jake is, what's this limit? You said, yes, you would ride in 5K. Where at what point are you like, nope, not worth it? I'm stopping and I'm changing this flat as quickly as I can. Yeah, like 10K. I think how slow you're going to have to go for like 10K

is going to have just as much of an impact on your race as stopping, especially if you have tubeless and trying to plug it or hit it with a CO2. Yeah, yeah. Even in professional races, I don't think that stopping to fix a flat is necessarily a death sentence. Like you can still podium and win a race

stopping to fix your flat. We've seen it. Especially in an Iron Man, especially in an Iron Man. Yeah. Cool. Well, great question, Jake. If you ever come to Santa Monica and you want to swim together, I'm down to swim with you. We can make each other faster, hopefully. And bike. Yeah, well, I can't keep up with you, Paul. So if he's really as fast as you, then I don't think. You can, Nick. You did a long ride with this last week.

Well, yeah, and it took 10 years off my life. So, God, that was a hard ride. I was thinking about it yesterday. And 10 minutes off your Iron Man time. Yeah, not worth it. That was so hard. Okay, well, those are all the questions we had. We started kind of on a more somber, serious note. And I think it was important to talk about it. And it's not going to be the last time. It's certainly not going to be the last time the three of us talk about it.

And I'm sure it'll come up again at some point on the podcast as well. But yeah, it's pretty fresh at this point. Yeah. But yeah, next week we'll be podcasting not from Flagstaff for you guys. It'll be somewhere else. Yeah. hopefully we'll have time to do one from Abiza for a little pre-race episode. If not, then after that we'll just be wrapping up this whole trip from back and bend.

Oh my gosh. It feels kind of intimidating to think about all the travel that's upcoming. And I think the mindset you have to take when you have impending travel and races that are a big deal is just like one piece at a time. And it's like approaching a hard training day. You can't think about the hard swim and the hard bike and the hard run that day. you just have to be like, okay, I'm doing the swim. Yeah. And then I'm going to reset.

So that's the approach I'm taking a bit is like, okay, I'm packing up the Airbnb. And then I'm going to St. Anthony. I love that. I love that. I love that. So, yeah, but like I think we're both feeling a lot better. I think that we're both optimistic about the benefits will reap from being at altitude for three weeks. And, yeah, it's no secret that this, like, a lot of people feel really good after they've been training at altitude and drop down to race.

So I'm excited for that feeling. and I think I'm in a better headspace than I was a couple weeks ago. So, yeah, the field is crazy in Abiza, but it's still only May. There's a lot of racing to come and just a good opportunity to see where we're both at, hey? That's how I'm treating it. My hope for you is that it'll feel like when you're wearing a heavy backpack all day and then you take it off and you feel lighter than you were before you even put the backpack on. That's kind of what I'm hoping you'll feel.

I hope so, too. The closest I've had to this experience is when we trained in Canmore before Daytona in 2020. That went great. And I was like 260 watts on the trainer for race pace. And then I went down to sea level and felt like I could ride that pace all day, which I did in the race. So it's cool. It doesn't always work. It's a bit of an experiment.

But if it works, you could win a race. So it's worth it. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thanks for listening, everybody. Hopefully we'll be back next week if we can get all the stars to align. well. We'll figure it out. We always do. We always do, even if it's 2 a.m. next time. That's right. I'll do it. Whatever it takes for the pod. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Nick,

is there a way people can watch you at Stagecoach? Oh, sorry, yes. On Amazon Prime, you can actually watch me at Stagecoach. Live or after the fact? Oh, boy, I actually don't know that. But it'll be on my story. I'll post it on my Instagram story. Okay, cool, cool, cool. So go watch our famous friend, Nick. Yeah, it'll be fun. I'm just playing guitar and singing background vocals, but it's going to be very, very fun. And Trixie Mattel is a drag queen and is a really, really fun entertainer to watch, so I promise it'll be entertaining.

Yeah, I can't wait to watch it. Yeah, look forward to it. All right, that's all. Later. Great. Thanks, guys.