That Triathlon Life Podcast - Eric and Paula crew Western States 100 mile ultramarathon, best money spent for new triathlete, and more!

Episode Date: July 4, 2024

This week we start out with Eric and Paula telling their story of crewing for Heather Jackson as she ran her way into 7th place at the Western States 100 mile ultramarathon, and then move on to your questions. This week we talked about:Best bang for your buck upgrade for a newbie triathlete.What to do with a wet and dirty bike after a race.How important is bike and run diversity to maintain positivity and focus?How often should you be swimming open water?Best camera for a young kid interested in filming action sports.Do Eric and Paula keep race logs or journals?Powering a Wahoo KICKR from a van.Thank you to all our podcast supporters for their generous monthly support. You too can become a podcast supporter and submit your questions for the podcast at ThatTriathlonLife.com/podcastHere are some of the links we referenced in the podcast:Orca safety buoyTTL Mammoth youtubeTTL Santa Monica youtube"Bitter Sweet Symphony" by Nick Goldston

Hey everyone, welcome to that triathlon life podcast. I'm Eric Loggerstone. I'm Paula Finley. I'm Nick Goldston. This is our triathlon podcast. We love talking about triathlon. We had so much going on our triathlon week this week. We actually have some single sport adventures. I'm just a little bit tired because I've been working on our vehicles all day long. We just sold a treadmill that I had to dismantle before selling. It's been a wild ride, but we're psyched to be here doing the podcast right now. There we go. Wow. There's enthusiasm. Now I need to level up my enthusiasm. Yeah, get on this program.

I'm so amped. So speaking of enthusiasm, what was your enthusiasm on the 100-mile race at Western States before versus after being there and experiencing your friend do it? I think we need to explain what's going on. Yeah, let's back up a little bit there. Let's hear it. Let's hear it. What is Western States? First thing.

Well, Western States is like probably the biggest ultra race in the U.S. I would say it's up there in like top three in the world in the world. The fans of the Western States thing, we experienced firsthand being there witnessing our friend racing, which we're going to get to, they're nuts. People are like standing at this track, like ushering people in, you know, that are finishing the race for like 24 hours straight just because there's a like 100 chance that they might get into the race next year. Yeah, so it's a lottery system. There's only 300 starters, but you can get a golden ticket by one. winning another ultra. There are some sponsor slots through Hoka. So there are ways to get in it if you're a fast runner, but otherwise it's a very, very

low chance that you'll ever get picked to do this race because it's such a limited start number. And the race goes 100 miles from Olympic Valley in California all the way to Auburn through a bunch of elevation. Very circuitously, not straight. It's net downhill, but that's like hilarious because it still has about 5,000 meters of climbing or whatever it is. So our friend Heather Jackson, who's a former pro triathlet, now races professionally in the

gravel scene and ultra running scene, did this race last year, DNFed because of an injury, but this year came back way more prepared, way more ready to go and invited us to come and help crew and film and just be there for the week. And since I just got back from Tram Blanc and Time Trial Nationals, I had kind of an easier week and thought it sounded amazing to go support her and witness the whole. thing. That's what we did. Yeah. I was, my job was to film on behalf of Hoka. They're doing a special thing for her around this event and her journey and all the things. So, um, Paul and I actually didn't spend any time of the 15 hours that Heather was racing together, maybe three minutes.

Yeah, the way that, like, I don't think we should get too much into depth on this because it's just insane and I can talk about this for hours. But it'd be fun to have Heather on the podcast to kind of relive her experience. But when I agreed to go, I was like, yeah, I'll come and cheer and support. But I fully got thrown into being like one of the crew members. And that in itself is a whole day of logistical gymnastics and very important job for being there on time, having the right things, making the transition smooth for Heather at all the aid stations. And I was paired up with Heather's sister Becca. and there were two or three different crews who were kind of like leapfrogging

the different aid stations and as we were going to the first one which required a three-hour drive park the car and shuttle up I was saying they should do a documentary on the cruise because what we're going through is actually like very interesting

and of course what the ultra runners are doing is interesting of course but there's tons of documentaries on that and what it takes takes to finish this insane event. But I think the other half of what it takes is having the 15-person crew that's helping you get through it. So it would be so cool to like see the behind the scenes because I was fully blown away by how much it takes to get to the finish line from a full team perspective. I would love to shoot that documentary. I think it should happen next year for sure. The first aid station is Robinson Flats. It's called. And to get to it, you kind of have

to drive all the way from the start past the finish line and back up through the middle of the mountain sort of. And we're winding up through this insane road. They're like no idea why it exists, maybe for logging, but it's paved. But steep cliff drop off on one side. And as these cars are winding up to give aid to the runners, I'm like, there should be a drone shot of this. This is insane. Like this many cars heading up here to help all these people. So anyway. Do you feel like it's possible or even allowed to, let's say you somehow qualify for this race, you get a golden ticket or whatever, do you think it's possible to do it by yourself, like, without assistance? Yeah, we were talking about this, and it is because there are, at every aid station, there's a

neutral aid, and you can drop off pre-bagged things for yourself. So I don't know if anyone does it that way. The fastest people don't, but there are people who for sure, like, came over from Australia. They can't bring their whole family of, you know, 15 people along with them to do the whole crew thing. So in that case, yeah, then you put like an extra pair of shoes and socks like at the Mile 30 aid station and the Mile 70 aid station. And you can do that plus just grabbing the graham crackers and the M&Ms and whatever they have at like the neutral aid station. But if you want to be super fast and win, like it's like full on pit crew. And have your own nutrition and cold drinks. Right, right.

Yeah. But I think Katie Scheid, who ended up winning by like an hour or something, she's amazing. had a really lean crew. She didn't have as many as some of the other runners did, and she didn't have any pacers. So I think in terms of what it takes, there's very varying levels of support that you can have through this whole thing.

But I think what Heather had was, I don't know, helpful for her anyway. Yeah, I think the best thing that you can have is be way better than everybody else. Like physically, like fitness-wise, technique-wise, like be this complete athlete. and obviously have an insane engine. But I think some people are like,

we'll get really excited. Heather got really excited about seeing Paul and Becca, and then we like needed to do the leapfrogging, and then we had a camera crew. And it's, I think it kind of depends on the athlete, but crews are huge. Did you guys see, you were crewing and you were at those crew stations a lot? So did you see any carnage, like people just zombie walking through?

Or did you feel like this event calls upon people who are so fit that, no, they're just like trucking through. At the 50 mile aid station, like 75% of the people who left there was like, they're not making another two miles. Right. There's no way.

Like, you're seeing like grown men, like their whole family or their crew like pushing them out. Like, you got this, you got this, you got this. And they're like bawling.

Well, Eric, we were there for the pointy end of the race. Like, we were watching the men that were beating Heather. Right. Right. And then Heather would go through

and we'd pack up and get out of there. So we didn't even see 95%. Exactly. of the race. You see that and you're like, wow, no one's finishing this. But it's hard to know because the people behind Heather are pacing it differently. They're going twice as slow. They're maybe taking longer rest at the EGG station.

Yeah. So you have to complete it in under 30 hours. Heather did 15 something. So very big differences in what people are trying to accomplish here. So it's an insane feat though. I think if you paid me a million dollars, I couldn't make it under 30 hours personally. What's funny to me is Paula, you're like, you guys were texting me during it a little bit because you were pretty busy. But Paula, you were saying like, it's like forget about the hundred miles.

It's not about the hundred miles. Also, coincidentally, while this is happening, I was doing 100 miles on my bike, but a very flat route. And Paula, you were like, it's not even about the 100 miles. It is the terrain and the heat that is just unbearable. Like, think about how hard it would be to run 100 miles and then add those two things into it. it feels impossible. Yeah. Yeah, I think physically my body could not hold up to that distance and obviously the technical.

But I thought Eric might catch the bug and think, like, I want to come back and do this, but he's not even so sure that he would want to do it after seeing what it took. I think, like, I've done a 100-mile mountain bike race, and I think I have slightly a little bit of ability to grasp this. But then, like I said, seeing people just destroyed looking at 50, one or whatever miles into the race and then processing that they had like 49 miles from now.

It's the middle of day and all the spectators are hiding in the shade and they're just like running in the sun. You're just like, oh my gosh. Like I actually cannot believe this is real. So I think for me, I think if you are ending up the place where you're like, oh, I want to do that, you have to have done a 50K and like maybe done 100K or done a 50-mile or some of these things

to where it starts to not seem so nuts, but just showing up to like our first ultra run and observing this was just, it was like too much all it was. Or like, wow, this is impossible. Was this not the race that Elise got your sister Elise kind of magically, coincidentally, did get a spot to? Yeah. Normally, yeah. So my sister applied to get into the lottery

and she got it on her first try, which is like a million to one chance. Normally the way it works is you have to, like year one, you finish a hundred mile race. in enough time or whatever, and you apply to get into the lottery, and you get, like, a lottery ticket. And then the next year, if you complete another 100-mile race,

then you get, like, three lottery tickets. Right, right, right. And it kind of exponentially grows. So there are people who have been doing a hundred-mile race for 10 or 15 years that now have, like, 600 tickets, and still have not gotten won the lottery to do this race. It's absolutely wild.

Yeah, that's cool. I remember when she was talking about that. Oh, my God. What a crazy race. Okay, so can we talk real quick about the Heather's experience? Because a lot of people that listen to this podcast are familiar with Heather. We've had her on the podcast before as well. I would love to have her own to talk about it.

Yeah, maybe we shouldn't go too deep into it. She can talk about it. We'll ask her. Yeah. She finished seventh, which is crazy. Top 10, get an automatic slot for the next year. Oh, that's good. She could do it again, which is prestigious, as Eric just said.

Very hard to do it to get in in the first place. I think her spirits were really high and positive throughout the whole thing from my opinion. Yeah. Just crazy. Yeah. Heather is a very positive person, but I know her sister obviously knows her better than I do. And Becca told me every time we saw her that it would be very obvious if she was really suffering or really not having a good time or not feeling good. And her attitude and demeanor at every aid station was very positive in a way that we thought, okay, she's got this. she's good. She's kind of in a groove. So every time that she left an aid station that I was at,

I was like, wow, that's amazing that she's feeling so positive. No one else looked as positive as she did. And you were saying she never quite hit any kind of like real catastrophic wall, the way that I thought in a 100 mile race you would hit at least once or twice. Yeah, I think she had some trouble in processing or nutrition and getting stuff in, but I think that inevitably happens to a lot people in these things. Yeah, but she didn't have, she didn't have like a brutal blister that, you know, like took off half of her foot or, you know, and she like had to do some crazy thing or like no knee injury, no taping required. Like for the most part, I would, I think it was kind of smooth. Yeah. Wow. What a crazy. It's such a crazy thing. And you're like 100 miles.

Oh, that's far. But think about like some 13 mile runs. How long that feels sometimes and just Oh, I kept thinking about that all day. Like I would. do a five-mile run. You have to do that 20 times. Yeah. Oh my God. I think I think the only I would say imagine running four miles up a ski hill. That is what we're talking about over and over. And then you have to turn around and run back down the ski hill. Like that's how this race started. It was four miles up a ski hill and then you bomb down the other side. And that's how it starts. And then like when I saw her, when you cross the river, this like river thing, that's, like, river thing. That's, that's like you ran down to that and they have to run out of this canyon,

which is like another four mile straight up a ski hill level intensity of like 20% grade on dirt. Like that is the insanity of this is just getting up and down in addition to the mileage. So anyway, it's like without seeing it, I think it's so hard to even process what we're talking about from like if triathlon is your background. And it's so cool that triathlon is her background. Trathlon's crazy in its own ways. But I think from witnessing it and not just because I'm a triathlon. athlete. I think an Iron Man would be

a hundred times easier than this race. I think most people would agree. I think most Iron Man finishers and 100 mile race finishers would probably agree that I mean, part of the proof is Heather did it in 15 hours

and Heather's not doing an Iron Man in 15 hours. No. Yeah, it takes longer. It takes a lot longer. In case anyone just wants to hear triathlon stuff, let's do the questions. Let's do the questions. So we had to touch on that because it was just so wild to us. That's so cool.

And will we be able to see Eric of the stuff you filmed at any point? Do you know anything about that? I think it comes out in like October or something. It's not that long. Okay. But yeah, yeah, I'm not editing it. I just was shooting. I was one of two people shooting and a third person is editing it.

And I think it's going to be really good. Awesome. We'll make a big deal out of it when it comes out. You don't worry if you won't miss it. Yeah, we'll bring it back up. I've also wanted to make a quick note about our episode last week, where we did a little fun departure from what we usually do in our storytelling, and we added some background sounds and background music and effects. I've received all of your messages, and I know that some people loved it, and some people found it very distracting. We just thought it was so funny and fun, and I thought it elevated the whole thing.

But I don't know where else to go with that, just being like, you don't need to tell me anymore. Yeah, it honestly didn't occur to us That anybody would not like that Yeah, seriously guys And that's not, we're not saying you're dumb if you didn't like it But it didn't even occur to us I just thought this is freaking awesome You know, like video

Like if you watch a movie in the theater You can hear things that are going on So I don't know Yeah, some people were saying it was making them feel sick And they couldn't even get through it And we're like, okay Sorry We won't

We won't try to you know go the extra mile anymore. Trust me, that took Nick forever. We're not doing that ever again. I mean, I have no regrets about it because I thought it was really fun and funny. And I've listened to it like five times throughout the week and just giggled to myself. But maybe like once every six months, we'll do like a podcast supporter. Like you can have access to the sound effects if you so choose.

That's a good idea. We'll be like disclaimer, may cause nausea. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's so funny. Okay, anyway, on to real questions here. And these questions, as Eric said earlier, they come from all of you, our listeners. You can submit your questions at that triathlonlife.com slash podcast.

And you can also become a podcast supporter there. This week, if you were a podcast supporter, you got a little secret email. We did something awesome. Yeah, we did. Eric, do you want to talk about it for a second? Because it was a success story. This was no small feat. We had the web developers, we had the scientists, we had the engineers, everybody all hands on deck to make it so that if you were a podcast supporter, you got 24 hours early access to the timeless collection.

And it came off without a hitch. My one concern was that potentially the podcast supporters would be so excited that everything would sell out before we even like made it available to everybody else, I guess. But that didn't happen. It was, I'd say it worked out perfectly. and I don't know, I'm super psyched because that's just like, that's a freaking cool feature. It's like me and my friend Danny working on this website

and we had like special access to only people who were logged in. It's like, that's freaking cool. Yeah, that is very cool. And sadly, if you're listening to this now, everything has sold out except for the new bottles. I love the new bottles. I order to myself.

I think they're so cool, but the hat and the shirt are gone. Yeah. That's not a reflection on the quality of the bottles. We just ordered a lot more bottles than shirts and hats. This was a total, like, out of the blue thing. We've never done something that doesn't have at least say that trath on life on it or is some version of our logo. And this was completely out of nowhere.

I think it was awesome. It sold out. So I want to make this like a recurring sort of thing. Like this was the timeless collection 2024 and we'll do the timeless collection 2025 and do this look on some more fun stuff. So fear not. If you didn't get something and we got more awesome stuff on the way, I'm super excited about all the stuff we have coming on.

What's so crazy about this whole collection is like I had nothing to do with it because I am never going to wear something that says drapon on it. All you had to do with it was naysing. Yeah, I was like, no, no, won't wear it. So there's like zero pictures of me in it. I didn't post, not that I was against promoting it on my own channels or whatever because, of course, it's TTL stuff. But it still sold out. It literally happened before my, I didn't even know it was happening. Eric's like, oh, I'm doing the newsletter for the supporters for the pre-order of the triathlon stuff.

And I'm like, what? You made this happen? And I had no idea. So, bravo to Eric for pulling that off. Yeah, we were stuck about this. Eric and I have been very stoked about this idea for a while. That's the crazy thing is I think people love it or hate it. Yep.

So I'm really glad that all of you guys who bought stuff really love it. Yeah. Because then I, well, I mean, I've been proven wrong. I'm sure there's people that also feel like I do, though. Oh, yeah, you've been right plenty of times too. Yep. Anyway, so if you're a podcast supporter, you get little cool perks like that sometimes. In addition to having the peace of mind that you're helping support this podcast.

So thank you to our podcast supporters. This week, we also picked a random podcast supporter to get free bottle and socks, TTL branded. This week, Olivia Beattie, or yeah, let's say Beattie, Olivia Beattie, you're the winner. congratulations. Make sure you send in your address to on the website that triathlonlife.com slash podcast. On to questions. You guys, this microphone is really getting on my nerves. I know. I just, I need to like attach it via a plank like we had back in the day with your mobile board. Yeah. It's really unsuboptimal. I apologize.

Okay. As long as you feel bad for me, you may carry on. I definitely do. I've spent so much time looking over at your whole situation trying to figure out where else they could mount it. That would be better. funny as long as you feel bad for me. Okay, go for the bike tech question. Here we go. Wheel balancing. Is it a good idea or is it fake news? I run a deep section wheel 90 millimeters on the back of my tri-bike.

And whenever I put my bike in the repair stand and turn the pedals, the bike and the repair stand shake violently as the rear wheel spins. I believe this is primarily because the wheel being unbalanced thanks to the roughly 110-mill inflation valve needed to accommodate the 90-mill rim. I've seen people on YouTube taping small-weighted strips to their rim on the opposite side of the valve

to balance the wheel the same way a car's wheel is balanced whenever new tires are installed. Certainly works to eliminate the imbalance while the bike is in the repair stand but if I'm being honest

I've done this with my bike and I feel no perceivable difference on the road. Do y'all do this with your wheels? Have I fallen for the hype? Do I need to watch less YouTube? Thanks and best luck with all your goals this season

and beyond. Jared from Fort Washington, Pennsylvania. I'm super curious. what brand of wheel this is. Because our wheels have this just a teeny bit. Like enough to worry if the wheel is sitting in the stand, it will eventually

the valve stem will end up at the bottom. But if I spin the wheel really fast, which isn't an unnecessary thing to do for the most part, it doesn't shake violently. So I'm just kind of curious what the wheel manufacturer is. But at any rate, I am

not at all surprised that you couldn't feel indifference on the road. That was my first thought before the question was finished, that this is just kind of a thing that happens in the stand, and yes, it's more important in cars than it is in bikes. You're not going to wear out your tire.

I've never done it. I haven't had a discussion working in bike shops with anybody who has made an attempt to balance the wheel. But if you want to, and it makes you feel better, and it annoys you that it shakes

violently in the bike stand, and I can't see any harm. Both of my road bike and my TT bike, different wheel brands, both have this issue. I wouldn't describe the shaking as violent, but it's pronounced for sure. And I remember having the same question of, is this bad?

Like, am I going around a corner and it's like you, you, you, you, you, you, you, but I never was able to feel it either. Yeah. No, it's, I mean, it's one thing when the wheel is spinning at like 50 miles an hour, the equivalent in the stand, because you were like cranking it up to speed to listen to your free hub. And it's another thing when like you have all of your weight on it. It's touching the ground. Yeah. If you want to wait it, add extra weight. your wheels go for it, but I don't think it's necessary.

Yeah, cool. Okay, great. Next question here is from Kezia. Hi, guys. I was recently introduced to the pod and have been listening avidly since, and it keeps me fired up to train and go hard. I'm an Edmontonian, mourning the loss of our Oilers, but now living in Victoria, BC. My question is a bit of a two-part question. I only started triathlon about a year ago, and I'm in my 30s, which feels like a challenging place to enter into training for three sports.

I also feel like there are always upgrades to be had. My first question for the newbies in your crowd are what pieces of equipment do you recommend investing in first? I have a wetsuit, a nice Treck-Madone, a dumb trainer, shoes, very basic by computer, and an Apple Watch. From your experience, is there a certain piece of equipment you have found that helps training especially for those just starting out? Second piece of newbie question is, of the 70.3s out there, do you have any favorites that are a good starter, half Iron Man? Thank you so much for the encouragement you all provide. I mean, is the Victoria half-ironman not a great race to do? It's a really great race.

We both love it. They just haven't had it as a pro race in a few years. Oh, but for a newbie race, it's a great one. Yeah. Is it like very challenging in some way that maybe a newbie wouldn't be aware of? No. The bike is a little bit hilly, but they're certainly more challenging bike courses. The run is all on soft surface.

Well, that's easy. Okay, do Victoria. So beautiful. It's a race I wanted to do. But back to the other question is, so if Kezia has a wetsuit, a bike, a dumb trainer, shoes, a bike computer, and an Apple Watch, where would you point them? To a coach.

Oh, a coach. Good idea, Eric. Yeah, I would say get some professional help in structuring your training, and that is probably the best investment you can make. that coach might, the next logical thing in that might be to get a power meter so that you can train really effectively on the bike. But generally, we don't recommend people just like get a power meter without getting a coach who knows how to work with power because that's, that is a whole thing to learn. But yeah, I would start with coach. What about a tri-club?

Do you think that's a good idea for a beginner? Is that something that comes later? Sure. I mean, if you're a social person and you want to go for bike rides and go for runs and swims with other people, 100% do that. Sometimes that comes along with a coach. Sometimes like a coaching group,

if you do it with one that's local, you know, they'll have a group ride with all the athletes they coach or they'll have a group run with the athletes they coach. That's how I got into triathlon with a local coach

that had a bit of a team and there were group activities, which is huge just for motivation and keep it on. It's funny, it's triathlon like you think, oh, it's expensive sport, but these are all,

like you can totally live with exactly these things. You do not need. more than this to have such a good time in triathlon. You could rock up on a borrowed bike and do a sprint or an Olympic triathlon, you know, if you just really put your mind to it. And I think that's awesome. Yeah, cool.

Okay, next question here, Kinley. Hey, lovely humans and Flynn. Cleaning question, what do you do with a wet, dirty bike after a race? For example, Paula's bike must have been kind of a mess after Montreinblanc. Did you clean it right away, somehow in the hotel room or wait until you got home? Thanks, Kinley. Oh. Actually, in Trombole, my bike wasn't that dirty because it was just so wet with like relatively clean rain on not muddy roads. So I got back to the hotel room and it was, it was a wet bike, but it wasn't a dirty bike.

So I could take my bike rag and just wipe it down. And I mostly wanted to make sure it was dry before like packing it all up in my bag bag bag. But for the most part, it was fine. I think what you really encounter in most Iron Man's are 70.3s is just. the gooey, sticky stuff that might drip from your bottles or from your... Face. From your face. Or from your goo gels or your wrappers or whatever. That's the biggest thing for me is just finding sticky things all in the nooks and crannies of all the bolts and stuff. And that I usually wait until I get home to give it like a more thorough deep clean, but you can kind of do a superficial wipe down before you pack it up if you want to.

Yeah, the gel stuff and all that stuff is going to come off easily with warm. water actually because it's all water soluble. So if you just want to like hose the bike down when you get home, that's a great solution. The guy from Silka talked about that, that wax chains are not great in the wet, which is surprising to me because I feel like they're just like hydrophobic and the water kind of is repelled. But I remember he specifically said wax chains are not great in the wet. So I really picked the wrong chain for Tram Blanc. Well, I think for a single race, it's okay.

but if you're riding consistently in the wet, you have to rewax a lot more often. I see. Okay, okay. That makes sense. It's crazy. Eric packed me two chains for my two races that I did,

the TT and then Tram Blanc and he waxed both of them. They are fresh, ready to go. And after the TT, I was like, I had helped to put it on for that. So I thought, oh, it's such a pain in the ass to switch it.

I don't really know how. I don't want to. I might just leave it. But I went for a ride the day after the TT and it was noisy already. Yeah. And then I put the fresh one on and it was silent.

Yeah. It is really nerve-wracking, though, and you don't really know bike tech that well, like me, to take a chain off and then put a chain back on and then go race on it. It seems like this could easily break, you know? And that would be catastrophic, like race over. Did you guys see the footage of who was it on a cyclist doing a time trial? And he tries to come out of the gates and he sheared the crank set off of the chain rings on a downstack. No, that was a time trial Wow

That's just that's some freaking Garage made Ultra light crank set is what's going on there Maybe yeah But it looked like maybe someone didn't tighten the bolts On the spider or something You couldn't quite tell but it like it looked like broken Like carbon you know just like

I'm just honestly I think there's just a lot of tinkering And not a lot of like Approval Yeah yeah yeah yeah Yeah On some of these like super custom high-end bars and you're just, or you're like crank sets, maybe, and you're just fully trusting

this person building this, you know, in their personal shop. It's not SRAM or envy or zip or, you know, like these bigger manufacturers that have to make so many have like super tight quality control things. A little risky. A little risky. Yeah. Okay. Next question here is from Kieran. Are all three questions so far from a K name? Yes, they are. Hi, TTL gang. Thanks so much for your brilliant podcast and YouTube content. Pod is the highlight of my week. I've timed my commute to work so that I can listen to it each Thursday morning.

Thank you, Karen. That's awesome. I'm an aging and slowing age grouper. The social element of triathlon has become more important to me than performance. I'm finding other events such as gravel cycle challenges, really motivating to keep me getting out there. I've been really enthralled listening to your journeys in this great sport and lifestyle. I hear the roller coaster of Paula struggle to enjoy the hardship of training,

but then her innate talent and competitiveness in a race. Then Eric's passion for his art through sport, and of course, Nick's infectious positive. We don't need to put any of this in there, do we? I think you should just include that way. You just like trailing off into, yeah, don't need to put that up. We don't need to, the compliments a bit much. Okay, but we appreciate it though, Karen.

Here's the question. How important is this diversity and adaptability to getting the maximum out of ourselves? Do you guys have any strategy or advice as you shape your future and try to maintain positivity and race focus? I think what I'm getting out of this question is how after 20 years in the sport, are we still finding motivation and excitement to go out and train and do a race and just continue to enjoy it? I think that's what I'm getting out of this. I think you're right. Yeah.

And if you've been listening to us or watching us on YouTube, you can dive. definitely see that we don't just ride our time trial bikes 100% of the time and we don't just run on a track because that is the most perfect condition. We're definitely trying with trail running. We're trying to go new places, pick new bike routes, ride all sorts of different types of bikes. We ride gravel bikes and time trial bikes and road bikes and mountain bikes. And I think that's all the things that we're doing to keep it interesting after so long. So I am right there with you. on the, like, you said you're trying to do a gravel race here and there and experiment with that. Like, if you've built up a really good engine in an aerobic capacity, there's a lot of really

interesting things that you can go do out there. And I wouldn't necessarily just, like, limit yourself just to triathlon because you feel like that would make you, like, not good or, like, un-serious or something. Just, like, do it feels like it's enjoyable. You got one life. This is what attracted me to triathlon in the beginning was that it was three sports, that it wasn't as singularly focused. And so this is just more of that,

which it feels like the DNA of the sport to begin with is to try things that push you in different directions and challenge you, and your training one day is dissimilar from the training the next day. Yeah, it kind of feels like if you got into triathlon, it's probably because you're a little bit of a curious person. And if you ride a bike, you're kind of going to go,

hmm, I wonder if I could ride this type of bike. And if you're running, like, I wonder if I could run over there. you know, not on the road. I think that's kind of natural. Paula, do you feel like, do you notice in yourself, gravel riding, road riding, and TT riding, do you feel like they help you find more motivation in the sport by being different from each other? Or do you think you would be just as motivated if you had to ride the TT bike all the time?

I just think it adds, like, some interest in terms of being able to do different routes that you wouldn't do on a single bike. Running a time trail bike has like very specific parameters of what is appropriate for a ride. Like it has to be relatively quiet roads and not a lot of stop signs and ideally a bike lane. And when you have a gravel bike and a road bike, it just expands the opportunities of what you can do on a day-to-day basis. And when we have so many rides we do per week, it is nice to mix it up, especially living here when the gravel roads and the trails are really nice. So yeah, I'd say it does help me stay motivated to get out the door. Some days riding the TT bike doesn't sound great. So I'll take my road bike and do intervals on that instead.

And fitness, I think at this point in my career is fitness. I'm still going to be able to go and ride well on the TT bike. But whatever it takes to, yeah, mix it up a little bit. I think that that's okay for anybody. But it does make it so that your garage is so full of bikes, you can't even lock in it. That sounds like a dream. Like having a lot of gear. Well, I mean, I'm joking about it, but it does get expensive to have a whole collection

of different types of bikes. So anywhere you can maybe do some crossover, like the crux could act as a road bike and as a gravel bike or put clip-ons on your road bike. I don't know. There's ways to make it so that it's more affordable to like have those opportunities maybe. Yeah. This reminds

me of when my parents bought me my first guitar and there was this thought in their minds of oh finally okay great now he has the guitar you know it's like no that's not how that's not how people who play guitars work it's n plus one for guitars it's n plus one for bikes it's n plus one for running shoes too like it just becomes this fun thing that they they do slightly different things from each other and they bring you in different kinds of adventures yeah that's what I thought about when this, the previous question when she was asking what gear she needs to get started, what would you invest in next? And she has all these things already. But I think the dangerous thing is that you want like a nicer what suit and a nicer bike and a smart

trainer and a power meter. So you really could escalate as far as you want to with that, but you can also do it at a very basic level. Yeah, it's true. Okay, next question here is from Schmitty. Greetings from Minnesota, land of 10,000 lakes. My question is about just that, lakes. I'm very much a newbie when it comes to swimming, but I completed my first Olympic in May and have another in the middle of July. I primarily train in the pool, but I am very blessed to live on a lake. I'm still a bit unconfident with my swim, and during my race was very dependent on my wetsuit. My question is, how often should I be swimming at the pool compared to swimming literally in my backyard in the lake. If I'm doing a lake swim, should I be training without the wetsuit or should

I use the wetsuit to have that additional support? Since the pool is so expensive, could I only train in the lake? Or is the pool important too? Thank you for everything. More questions to come, but this is my first one ever, Cheers Schmitty. This reminds me of when I first started triathlon, I was like, I'm not going to the pool. I live three blocks from the Pacific Ocean. I'm just going to train in the ocean. How silly of a thought that was that I realize now. How do you guys feel about a newbie having a lake in their backyard versus the pool. Well, Eric's going to have, I know what Eric's going to say. I mean, let's just imagine there wasn't a pool anywhere nearby.

100% you can do your training in the lake. I think that the key, the thing that the pool brings to the equation is this structure where it's very easy to do 10 times 50 on the 50 seconds, getting 10 seconds rest, and like tracking and seeing like, oh, normally I come in on the 37, and this week I was coming in on the 36, and so I can tell I'm getting better. And it's very easy in terms of that. But I do think that pretty much all pool workouts could be adapted into open water workouts, especially if you get something, if your garment or your whatever watch you use can like beep at you every minute, or if you get the form goggles, they can tell you how far you've swam. I think the trick is just being able to know

that you've gone certain amount of distance or certain amount of time and build workouts in such a way that you can train. Mostly for just to keep your brain engaged. Because I feel like open water when I go swim my Wahoo beeps at me every 500 meters and it feels like an eternity between 500 meters even if it's only seven minutes or whatever.

But I think another way to do it open water is to do it by stroke count. So if you're in the pool, you're doing 100 repeats in the open water you could do 75 strokes hard 25 strokes easy. And what you really get out of open water swimming versus pool swimming is the continuous nature of it and you just build a lot of fitness

through the act of not stopping at the wall so much. So doing a mix, I think, is like the ideal situation. Obviously in Minnesota, you're not going to be able to swim in the winter so you have to go to a pool. But as races get closer, I think the experience swimming open water, practicing in your wetsuit, swimming continuously, practicing sighting,

are all things that people don't do enough because they just don't have access to a lake. So personally, I would use that resource and do it three times a week and swim in the pool once a week. Wow. Wow, three times a week in the lake. Wow, that's... If it's easier, you're going to get just as good of a workout.

I think it's more sport-specific. And you're not doing it all year, you're only doing it in the summertime. What about the wetsuit, with or without wetsuit? I mean, I think let the 10th, temperature be your guide. If you're going to overheat in the wetsuit, then don't do it. If you need the wetsuit to stay warm, use the wetsuit. I wouldn't think of it necessarily like the training stimulus rather than if it's too cold. Swim in the wetsuit, for sure.

Yeah, when we swam in the lake this past weekend in Truckee, it was a super nice reservoir, very quiet. I wore a wetsuit and Eric didn't and it equalized us to the point where we could swim together the whole time. Oh, that's nice. And it was sort of borderline, you know, it was not too hot for me and it wasn't too cold for Eric. So that was the perfect temperature lake. But usually the temperature does dictate what you're wearing. It reminds me, Paula, we swam together here in Santa Monica and we were equalized, but I had to have fins to swim as fast as you.

You put on flippers. And then you just like did half the workout and I was swimming alone in the ocean, which was very scary. You made it. You survived. Yeah, I did survive. but I could swim in a lake by myself, no problem, but swimming in the ocean is a whole other level of scary to me. Yeah, and if you're going to do the lake thing,

just swim close to the shore if you're not confident in your swimming ability. Nothing says you have to swim across the lake. You can swim 10 feet from the shore and just fall to the shore the whole time. And I personally love those inflatable buoys that you can wrap around your waist. Oh, yeah. Love those because they're not just, they're always very visible, which is great, too, of course. But when you're, if you just want to float around and maybe you don't have the wetsuit so you're not as buoyant, you just kind of like wrap yourself around the inflatable. It feels great.

Yeah, I'm obsessed with mine. In this lake swim that we did, I had paddles and pull buoy, and then I put my phone and my car keys inside of the buoy thing because there's got like a dry compartment. But then it has a non-dry compartment where I could stuff my paddles. So I was doing like across the lake with no paddles, across the lake with paddles and like going back and forth, I just felt so freaking smart. Oh, that's great. Yeah, and this Orca makes these And if you're going to buy one, you should buy one from Orca because they're awesome Okay, are we able to put a link in the description to that?

Yeah, sure. This is not a fancy link where we make any money. I think Orca stuff is awesome. What I was thinking too, while I was open water swimming the other day, is going to the pool is so the same all the time. But when we and Eric swam across the lake and we were standing at the shore on the other side looking back at the van, that's kind of a cool feeling. to think, wow, I got across here by myself, like with my body.

Really cool. With no boat. With no anything except me. Yeah. Except Eric had paddles. I had a buoy for both of us. You know, had some paddles. But yeah, it's awesome.

We did like 45 minutes of let's swim to that tree. Let's swim to that bank over there. And we get to the bank and we'd chat about it and then go to the next thing. Whatever. Swim back to the van. Super fun. I'm realizing something. I wonder if you guys have this.

I think Eric, you don't. but maybe Paula you do. If you take all three sports, there's like the adventure outdoors version and then there's the more structured, controlled, indoor version, let's call it. So for running, you have running outside or the treadmill. For cycling, you have biking outside or the trainer. And for swimming, you have swimming in a pool or swimming open water.

And for some reason, I think a lot of people prefer, like in their ideal, they're running outside, they're biking outside, but they're swimming in the pool, not in the open water. Do you feel like, am I alone in that? Or do you feel like does that resonate a little bit? Yeah, I think most people

have just enough fear or discomfort with the open water that it's not worth it. That'd be my guess. My thought is that it's a purely accessibility thing. It's really hard to find a lake that's clean,

doesn't have motorboats, good temperature, doesn't take an hour to drive to. That is like a unicorn to find that. If people had that in their backyard, I think you'd see way more people open up.

water swimming. Okay. Yeah, this person is definitely the exception where it's easier for them to swim in a lake than to get to the pool. Right, right. Cool. Okay. Next question here is from Soren and Dylan.

Hi, Paula, Eric Nick and Flynn. Quick tech question. My eight-year-old son, Dylan, loves watching your vlogs with me and is building a desire for triathlon through you and watching his dad suffer through races, but mostly you all. He thought I was almost famous when I ran into Paula on a Zwift ride one. That's great. He is creative and always correcting me and mom when taking pictures. As a dad, I'm super stoked for his interest in the sport,

and I think he could love it more and more if I could record his love for it on our adventures together. So any recommendations on early entry video camera drone equipment to record our adventures for my son, a young aspiring TTR fan. As always, much appreciated in love, Soren and Dylan. What do you think, Eric? GoPro. Yeah, good answer. I would say cell phone, because it would.

we all have cell phones in our pockets, but if this is for a little kid, a GoPro. And you can set up a GoPro. My personal favorite currently is the DJI action cameras. They're currently on the number four. But it works the same as a GoPro. And you can just set it up so that you hit the red button on top and it turns the camera on and starts recording. That's as simple as it gets. And then to turn it off, you press the red button again.

It stops recording and turns it off. So you don't have to worry about that aspect either. Yeah. Super simple. And then they, you know, just depending on how much editing you want to do or not, like both GoPro and I think DJI have some. sort of thing where you like hook your phone to it via Bluetooth and it'll like make you a little edit out of the stuff you just filmed, which is, I mean, like, if that's all you're trying to do is like say, look, look at what we just did. That's super fun. The DJI, a little Osmo thing is,

you always say that's the best thing to get. Yeah, so if you want to level up just slightly, DJI has the Osmo Pocket 3, which is like a little mini gimbal, and that thing looks incredible. It's probably more than you need as a kid, but those would be my two recommendations. Getting the action four, which is shaped like a GoPro and is waterproof and all the things. And then the pocket three is a little bit more video camera-e. It's just a little delicate maybe for a kid. No? Yeah, that's kind of what I'm thinking. Okay, I don't think this kid is like three, though. Eight-year-old.

Yeah, you can do it. I mean, Eric just dropped his $12,000 camera in the woods. Oh, God. Doesn't make it okay. Don't remind me. And he's 35. 34. 3, 25 years old. Yeah, 3, 2, 5. Like, I would say if you dropped the Osmod, whatever the hell this is, it wouldn't break.

It would probably be okay. If you dropped it on the dirt, not on the asphalt, it would probably be okay. I was just about to say, like, that's what's nice about the GoPro, whatever, is it you can drop, and it's fine. But I cracked the screen on my GoPro a couple years ago, dropping it. dropping it from like chest height onto the ground in Yosemite. Yeah. I mean, this is the thing. They're action cameras.

They are for filming action. If you're doing action, there's a good chance that something's going to happen. It's just, it is what it is. It's part of it. The action line is definitely slightly more breakproof. Yeah, cool. Good luck, Dylan.

We're excited. We want you to become a triathlon filmmaker just like Eric and I are. As if that's a genre. Yeah. We're making it a genre. Okay. Next question here is from this. Ben, hi TTL crew, was wondering, do you keep post-race notes or document any race specifics

so that you can look back at them? Also really appreciate the YouTube videos Eric puts out as I'm not on other social media to follow along. Thanks, Ben. No. Like a diary, like a training diary. That's one of those things where I'm like, I almost feel irresponsible for not doing it. But it's working for me how. I'm doing it, so I'm just going to not think too much about it. But I think it could be valuable if you want to write notes about something you learned or talk through something. But in general, I feel like I've been doing it for so long that I don't have a big, you know, realization at

each race of something that I need to remember for the next race. And if you do, you probably, it's burned into your brain. It's all you're thinking about. Right, right. So I'm not very good about documenting stuff, but having the vlogs helps. Yeah. Like, here's how our race experiences work. We race, and then we think about it a bunch, and then we do a podcast about it, and then we make a YouTube video about it. And by, like, you've written four journal entries about the same thing, you know,

and I think it's pretty well internalized at that point. And we can always go back and look at our Strava and see what our, you know, power numbers were, what our paces were. We can go back and look at our Wahoo files, you know. It's all there if we want. to go look. And to make that all even more irrelevant, you guys have a coach whose job it is to do this

and figure out what's working and what's not working and then communicate that to you if he thinks it's the right time or way to communicate it. So it makes perfect sense. I'm not... Do you think other pros do this? Or do you think this is common? I think it just kind of depends on the person,

whether you're not... You're like a journaling, you know, person and like writing things. down helps you. I mean, how often do you go back and look at, you know, 20, 70.3, more obey your, all of your very in detailed notes? I think I'm the exception, but I actually do it more often than I think you would imagine just because I like to feel like, oh, I did better this year than last year. And I like to have the quantifiable growth in front of me. Nick, you actually have a physical diary where you write things.

I have two separate notes. One is all the races I've ever done. And for each race, I have my swim pace, the swim pace that the race told me I had and that my watch told me I had. Then I have bike power, normalized power, and average speed. And then I have run pace on there for every race I've done. So I can go through and be like, oh, I can just quickly see how I've gotten a little bit faster. you also have like amount of meters or feet gained and the quality of the pavement and percentage on dirt. You know, like there's, I guess where I'm going is I think why I've never done it is just because each course is so different.

And like the pro race dynamic, like that's more what I'm focused on. Like, do not get dropped by Camdye again, no matter what happens. Like all it takes, this is the only thing that matters. It doesn't matter how many watts it takes, you know. Pro racing is just slightly different. That's why I think it's another reason why it's not relevant for you guys is for us, it's more of a time trial effort. And for you, you're responding to things more so. It's more of a dynamic kind of race experience.

But I do have a separate note where I write down things in English that I feel like I learned. Like, don't take a gel two seconds before getting off the bike or whatever, you know, something like that that I can like, I learned the hard way. And so I wanted to write it down to feel like I didn't waste it. interesting i wonder if this like our lack of doing this is a little bit you know of a result of us starting in it u racing where it's so situation dependent and so dependent on other athletes and like your power file you can't draw too many conclusions from it except i don't know like maybe try to be a little less surgy or something but it's you kind of just have to go with what happens and maybe

we just brought those habits into 70.3 you guys just also race so much like you know it like you said you just know you know these things it's not it's not not, it's not as like us that race is twice a year. Okay. Last question here's from Katie. Hi, Paula. Quick question regarding the van. The hi, Paula, is because you read the questions first, Paul.

I think the question is for everyone. But I've been searching for the YouTube episode, but I can't seem to find it. And I remember which one of this, so we can answer this question. But you guys are in the middle of nowhere and you were able to do a swift workout from the back of your van. What was the hookup for that? Zwift, Bluetooth, to the kicker and the kicker to a generator, or the kicker was hooked up to the van for power.

I'm looking and getting a van, but would also love to bring my bike and stay close in unfamiliar areas. I thought it was a great setup and I would just like to know how you did it. Thanks for all you do and congrats on the double wins. Katie.

What episode was it, Nick? We were in Santa Monica. So I'm wondering if it's one of two episodes. You did it fully in a meadow in Mammoth and then by the beach in Santa Monica. She's probably thinking

the one by the van in Santa Monica. In Malibu, yeah. Yeah. So the vans, that was with the storyteller, and it has a huge amount of battery. I don't know the specifics, but Eric can tell you. So it does have enough battery power to just plug the Wahoo kicker into it, and it fully works. When we did that, I didn't use Zwift because that runs off Wi-Fi and that I'm like just burning through, you know, data on my phone.

But I was just using the Wahoo app, so I was controlling the resistance or the power of the watts or whatever it was through that. But the actual kicker was powered through the van, right? Yeah, they actually don't draw that much power, we discovered. We were so surprised to find that. Yeah. Our van has a huge inverter in it and can power a microwave in an air conditioner. But you really don't need much at all. I think if you had like a 500-watt inverter.

Like we ran it off a... Can we do it in our old van? Yeah, oh yeah, for sure. Oh, wow. Like Nick, we ran it off of, in Mammoth, Nick's little, like, portable battery bank. Yeah, it was, and we were like, there's no way this is going to work.

And not only did it work, it barely required anything. It was like five watts or something, like something crazy. Like the same amount of power to charge your cell phone is able to power the kicker. So,

interesting. You don't need much to make it work. Yeah, really awesome. Yeah, the biggest annoyance of doing the van kicker combo is just traveling with the kicker in the van. It takes up some space and it's heavy and you got to bring it in and out of the van. But if you have a dedicated spa for it and you are going to use it regularly, it's, I think, a great setup.

Yeah. Yeah. The goal with the van is to go places that you can ride outside. But there are so many times when it's like Paula did it that day because it was so windy. It was gale force winds or like a thunderstorm rolls in or something and then having that option is awesome. Or if you're going outside and I want to do a more specific. interval workout on the trainer that is always a really good backup plan

but definitely get a storyteller they're the best they're the coolest we're great with kickers the name of the episode by the way is called the long way home camping and mammoth after Oceanside 70.3 and it's a really great YouTube episode that's the one where I used it like out in the field

though in the meadow yes not with the storyteller that was when we were getting ready for Indian Wells I think okay anyway it doesn't matter but we were coming back from Oceanside in like late season. Yeah.

But then if you scroll through the one, the other one where she's doing it next to the van, that's like literally the thumbnail. I think it's like a year ago when we're in Santa Monica, a year and a half ago. The other thing I'd recommend, if you do have a way to plug things in, is to bring a fan that gets really hot,

doing the train of rides outside. But the storyteller has that fold-down table and you can have like your water and all the things. Yeah. Definitely have a full down table. We're going to have to bring a table. Okay, I found the other video, too, that I think Katie's referring to. It's called a random QOM attempt plus training in Santa Monica.

And I'll put both of these in the description as well, so they're easily clickable. Awesome. Okay, those are all our questions. Is there anything else going on in the world of TTL before we sign off here? Yeah. We have two different things coming up in launches, actually. we, the most important and exciting thing is probably the second installment of the shred till bed. Ooh.

For those who remember, Danny Gardner made Nick and I matching posters. Mine is kind of orangey and Nick's a little bit more greenish-blueish. Those shirts and posters are ready. They've been printed locally here in Bend, super awesome guy who did them. And actually, the last thing that needs to be done is Paul and I need to go and write number one of 150. That's so cool. Two of 150. So that writing on those will actually be our handwriting.

And then we're going to, then we'll be mailing them out. So stay tuned for that. Yeah. We're just happy to be home without any big travel in the near future. And it's really nice to kind of, I mean, yeah, be training again, but also take a little bit of downtime before the second half of the season because there's a lot that happens September till December. So I'm kind of treating the summer like a little rebuild period for that.

And it's, it's nice to be home. home and have the weather be nice and yeah all is good oh actually can i make a small announcement um the day after this podcast comes out on friday i have a song coming out and actually erika had a small part in this song he gave me some feedback that that made it into the song yeah i rick rubined it it's great because of me um there's a an old song many of you may recognize called bittersweet symphony and i thought it would be fun to do a cover of it and actually this was born when Eric and I were in Nemo Bay. There was a really cool piano there, and I started playing this core progression from the song.

And actually, I modified it a bit, but it was inspired from that. And then I came back and recorded a version of it, and it's going to be out on Spotify under my name, Nick Goldston. And you can check it out. Is it okay to promote that on the podcast? Yeah. I'll allow it because the song is great. If it wasn't good, I would just be editing that right out. I see, I see.

But I legitimately love it. our friend Jarris, who was staying with us, obsessed. He listened to it all the way home when he drove back to Canada from Bend. So definitely check it out, everybody. That would be really nice. Thank you, everyone. If you can listen and save it, that's the most helpful. Save it to your liked songs.

I'll also link to that in the description. I did a ballet dance to that song when I was a ballerina. Okay, so if you're a podcast supporter, you're going to get a video of this new version of BitterSuite Symphony with Paula doing a ballet to it. That's what you're going to get in your email. I'm obsessed with this song. It's so good.

Not just your version, but the actual version. That song is so good. Great song. The great song is great. All right. Let's get some dinner. I'm hungry. Let's do it.

Me too. Thanks for listening, guys. Yeah, we'll see you next week. Bye.