That Triathlon Life Podcast - Eric and Paula's Kona recon trip, turning down UCI Worlds for Kona, is Nice scarier than Marbella, and more!

Episode Date: August 27, 2026

Paula and Eric are back from five days in Kona. Riding the Queen K in both calm and full-crosswind conditions, running the Energy Lab, and getting the lay of the land before race week. Eric also cracked a rim on post-hurricane debris in the shoulder. Meanwhile, Paula made the Canadian national team for UCI Time Trial Worlds in Montreal and had to turn it down. After some Bike Tech with Eric about traveling with pedals, we get into both before moving to questions.This week we discussed:Paula and Eric's Kona recon trip: Queen K conditions, the Hawi climb and descent, what the Energy Lab actually feels like, and why knowing the course before race week mattersThe Kona heat: over rated?Eric cracks a rim on hurricane debris in the shoulder, and a local cyclist pulls over before Paula even noticesPaula makes the Canadian national team for UCI TT Worlds in MontrealWhy sleeveless suits dominate short course and sleeved suits dominate long courseDo sprint intervals have a place in triathlon training, and at what distance do they stop mattering?Planning bike intervals on hilly routes when the downhills don't cooperate with your workout structureNice vs. Marbella: which descent is actually scarier for 70.3 Worlds age groupers?Trail and fire road etiquette: who has right of way, and what went wrong on Paula's run this weekGetting the most out of a gravel bike for a 70.3, tires, aerobars, and what's actually worth spending money onCycling and running cadence: training vs. racing, and high-cadence drills that actually workShould triathletes plan an off-year every few seasons to reset cumulative fatigue, and what COVID accidentally proved about thisA big thank you to our podcast supporters who keep the podcast alive. To submit a question and to become a podcast supporter, head over to ThatTriathlonLife.com/podcast

Hey, everyone. Welcome to that triathlon life podcast. I'm Eric Loggerstrand. I'm Paula Finley. I'm Nick Goldstone. I think this is going to be a pretty fun one. I've been looking forward to it. Paul and I just got back from our Conne of Recon trip.

We went down there. We saw the winds. We felt the wins. We saw the course. We peed in all the corners, marked some territory, et cetera. It was a fun trip. It was a hot trip. We'll get some of Paula's thoughts and reactions on that.

I can add some color. we if we want. If you're new here, Paula and I are both professional athletes. Nick is a professional musician, amateur triathlete. We all love the sport, love talking about it. Most of the show makes is made up by people writing in questions and asking us questions about our experiences, et cetera. So if that is you, thanks for doing that. Much appreciated. And welcome to the show. Paula, are you still hydrating from how hot it was there? Is that with that giant glasses? No, I just ran with Heather in the heat. but the heat here is different. It's dry. It's not humid. But you still get really thirsty here. Oh, okay. Overrated. Let's call back to last week with Rate It. The Kona Heat, overrated, underrated, appropriately rated.

Appropriately rated. I always thought what I wasn't there and I hear people talking about the heat, that they were overhyping it and overrating it. How bad could it really be? It doesn't look that bad on the weather app. It's 28. It's 34 here. Seems like it's hotter here. But you get there and it's like the humidity that really sucks you dry or makes you so sweaty and hard to cool off. So it's really appropriately rated. It's so hard to exercise in those conditions. Did you notice it on the bike as well or mostly just on the run? No, the bike for sure. The wind helps on the bike because it cools you a little bit. But still, every time you're kind of climbing or if there's a tailwind or no wind for any part of it, the heat is kind of reflecting off the pavement and off the lava rock and it feels like it's cooking you. But yeah, it is helpful to, I found, to like pour cool water on yourself or anytime I would stop at the van and get like a refresh of cold stuff. it kind of does revitalize you. So I'm imagining in the race when there's much more frequent aid stations than what you have when you're training, that'll be super helpful.

But it was really eye-opening just how important it is to get so much fluid in there and have fluid also to pour on yourself, not just the bike, but like especially the rod when you need ice. Yeah, I was following along on the bike and carrying as much water and ice as I could to like try to give her at least. a drink of water that she could also spray on her head every mile or so on her long run. And I finished up just like so cooked because I'm trying not to drink any of the water. And I'm like running to the gas station on the side of the road to get an extra thing of ice or an extra thing of water. And she's just dumping it immediately on her head. And just cruising along on the bike, like I was just soaked in sweat. Eric, it reminds me when we were there with Ralph and we were sitting at the swim start.

And it was, what month was it? It wasn't even, it wasn't even like, It was right for Oceanside. So it was like late April. Yeah, and it was so hot. And it was, it wasn't even a hot day. Yeah, it had a little bit, it had a little bit of that New Zealand feel.

Like I got that while I was sagging Paula on the bike. I never felt it when I was riding with her when she was also riding. But just that like my arms just felt like you were holding them in front of the oven or something where it's like, this feels like my side. skin is, I can feel it actively burning. So do you feel like overall the trip was encouraging,

informative? Like, how would you describe it? Yeah, I was a bit hesitant to go similar to Vancouver. I mean, I'm pretty tired of like having these trips, which I don't decide on until the day before. But Paulo, my coach was encouraging me to go. My friends who I've talked to have done the race were encouraging me to go all thought it was a good idea. It's a pretty easy trip from here. Like we woke up at 5 a.m. and Bend and we were swimming in Kona by 3 p.m. So it's like pretty easy, you know, from the West Coast. The time change works in our favor. So it's kind of a privilege to be able to live as close as you can get to Kona without living in Kona. So yeah, we took that chance to go out there and like you look at the course on a map and you're like, yeah, it's out and back on a highway.

technical could it be? How much recon could you have to do? But it was really helpful to see that it's not flat. There are some corners and some turns which are helpful to see. Like the climb to Javi was nice to see because it's not really a big climb. It just kind of drags on like skyliner here and bend. But the descent is really fast. And I did the full course twice. So the first time we wrote it, it wasn't as windy of a day. And the second time I wrote it, it was super windy up at Javi. Eric got some of the on video, like the trees blowing over sideways type of wind. The footage is banger. Yeah.

You don't have to use your imagination. And then that tailwind turns into a crosswind. So everything you hear about people talking about, we kind of got to experience like all those conditions. And you start early in the morning, 7 a.m. we were rolling out when it's not super, super hot yet. But then coming back on some of the climbs back into town, that's where you're really getting cooked. So just to feel the conditions changed throughout the morning, see the road surface. Like we were riding in the shoulder, obviously, but there was a lot of crap in the shoulder from the storms they'd been having, like a lot of runoff from the lava and from the trees

that were getting knocked down. So it was a little slow to ride in the shoulder, like just trying to navigate around some of the debris, but being able to see like, oh, the road is actually really nice right here. So in the race, when you can kind of get out of this shoulder and not have the rumble strips and not have this debris you're kind of dodging, it'll be a lot quicker. So there were some things like that that were nice to see and then just visually knowing like,

oh, I've heard of these places, but I don't know what they look like, and now I know what they look like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you're in Waikoloa and you have to get back to town and know what that feels like now. I know how far that is. I know the landmarks to look for.

I know what this hill feels like. So, yeah, you really don't know it until you do it. and most people that I'm going to be racing against have done it before. So coming in with like zero knowledge of the course, I think might have been a bit of a disadvantage, but now I know it, not obviously in race conditions, but just at least knowing how it feels. Yeah.

Eric, do you want to talk about your, I mean, Paula just alluded to the crap that's on the shoulder, which first of all, I feel like they must clean it for the race because there's so much footage of people training on the shoulder. Okay, okay. I think this was particularly bad because they had just, had that hurricane. And one of the reasons I was hesitant to go was this hurricane. You know, it's, it hits the island and people are trying to deal with cleaning up from it, let alone having tourists there.

There's trees down all over the place. It was like, you post-Hurricane Carnage, you could see. Yeah, but Jenny Fletcher was there with Crowley Alexander on a camp. And I asked her before we traveled, like, is this rideable? And she said, she told me that exact thing. Yes, there's debris in the shoulder, but it's totally rideable. So I knew. So Eric, what happened? What happened to you riding on the shoulder? Oh, so I have those 8-5-8 set up on my Shiv tri-bike.

And I haven't, I have not redone the sealant in a while. I kind of put a lot of time into, like, getting Paula's bike all prep for this and just like, oh, mine looks clean and nice and whatever and just kind of spaced on the sealant. So I think I got, they have these little things that are like, like, like, full-blown prickers that just like ended up in the road due to the hurricane. I think I got a couple of punctures due to those that just had my tires running at like 3540 PSI on the way back. Because I was also felt like I was working a little bit harder even than I expected with the humidity.

But then I, we came across just like this field of lava rocks that looks like just very, very large, chunky gravel. And I hit one while trying to swerve and it just straight. through the tire, smacked the rim, cracked my rim, slice the tire, clean open, you know, just like instantly to riding the rim. But I think that was largely, like I said, I think I had gotten a puncture probably in the last 10 miles.

I know the pressure was already pretty low. But you caoed the rim. The rim is ripped. Oh, yeah, rim's done. That hurts. Well, someone pulled over, before Eric could even come to a complete stop. A local cyclist pulled over in his car and drove him back to the van. Yeah.

Thank God, because Paula didn't stop. I don't think she looked over her shoulder for the next three miles. I mean, I looked back occasionally, and sometimes you were there, and sometimes you were not there. And what's so hard for me is I never know if you're, like, getting a picture or actually getting dropped. And, like, I needed to just do the ride. So I looked back to see if you were okay and you weren't even in sight. Yeah. So I called you.

Well, yeah, I mean, like 10 minutes before that, I think I said I left the car, the key here on the car because I'm feeling pretty shitty. I haven't done any heat acclamation, and I'm trying to do this three-hour ride on my TT bike that I haven't been on in two months. I think that was also a realization is I have been doing heat training all year, specifically like some pretty focused heat work in the last month. And I felt okay for much longer than Eric felt okay. Yeah. Every day we were riding. Like climbing up to hobby, when we flipped the first day riding together, I was like, okay, let's go. And he's like dying.

Yeah. It does work. It does work. Sadly, unfortunately. it does work. Yeah. It wasn't even, I wasn't like, like doing that. It was just like, my body feels like it's trying to go to sleep. And if I try much harder, I'm confident I'm not going to make it home. I think that would be a permanent sleep if you were to have gone to sleep there. Yeah. Everything in, everything inside of me is telling me, do not go harder. Yeah. Yeah, the worst,

the worst crack I had the whole trip, because for the most part, I was fine, was like running off the bike in the energy lab on the day. where I did the full course with efforts on the bike. And efforts are, you know, not that hard, but they're still... A relative term. Yeah. 220 watt for whatever. That's where it was really hard. And I felt, okay, the energy lab kind of goes downhill.

So I was kind of rolling just fine. And then coming back up it, I was like, oh, this is what they talk about when they say it's like really hot in here. And you just have to really keep your heart rate under control because once it goes up, it's hard to get it down again unless you. you do come to a complete stop and like fully cool yourself down. So after that run, I sat at the van for 10 minutes and then I could cool down really easy and felt okay. It's funny how similar this sounds to altitude stuff.

The altitude stuff helps with the heat. And then also same thing with altitude. If you like go too hard, then you're kind of screwed. Has the same effect. Yeah. Yeah. But even feeling that was good. So we are good realizing that was helpful.

But the other big thing is not just riding the course. even if we had gone to Kona just to see like where things were, that is helpful. Because now I know what grocery store to go to, what coffee shop we like, where the pier is, what roads to get there, where the Airbnb is. Parking lots. Parking lots. It's like people that have been there and done it know these things and you take it for granted when you've done it. But if you've literally never been to a place, then it's, yeah, it takes a bit of time to get the lay of the land, which we were able to do over the course of. the five days, which was really chill because there's not that many people there.

Yeah. How dead was it? Like, how chill is it when it's not race week? Pretty chill. Pretty chill. Yeah, I would say it like that, that whole area where the race is actually at, there's a bunch of like these little storefronts and stuff. And it feels like between one half and one third of them don't have any businesses in

them. And you kind of have this like, how do these places like stay in business? Because it's just, it's not bustling. It's not like Disneyland or something. You know, like downtown Bend feels bigger, feels busier in the summertime. Yeah. So it maybe makes sense why they were, you know, the town was kind of resisting the encroaching and growing presence that Ironman has during race week. Yeah.

I mean, I'm sure it's a big economic boom, but it's also just, you know, it's a pain in the ass and you hear all the stories of people. Yeah. just like doing dumb tourists. I'm a triathlet and I'm here for an important business. Rules don't apply stuff. So I think that's all I would say is be respectful. Someone said in the photos that I posted, they're like, it looks like you're the only one there.

Because I think I maybe saw two other people riding on the Queen K for the entire five days. But when you're there race week, you probably see hundreds of people every ride, which would stress me out. It's like you're probably getting passed by age groupers and, you know, coming. up on people trying to get around. The road is busy. So to be able to do a recon in a very calm,

relatively calm scenario where there's not other athletes around, I think is also a privilege for me anyway. Because I don't really get energy off of like seeing a hundred million people out training. It makes me stressed. Good thing you guys went, checked it out, saw where everything was, because that just kind of, even if it doesn't help logistically, it eases anxiety, which we, which is great. Yeah. For sure. And it did help logistically. I just need to say one more thing because Cycling Canada

just did this post. I actually, which is kind of crazy, qualified for the UCI TT national team for worlds in Montreal. We talked about this on the pod months ago and I thought there was no way I was going to qualify. I came second at nationals.

I'd kind of put it out of my mind. But I'd come to peace with it because the timing of world championships is not good for getting ready for Kona. It's one week after Nice. It's literally right in the middle of Kona and Nice, or niece in Kona. So I made the really tough decision last night, which was the deadline to let them know that I unfortunately could not race, which is devastating because worlds are in Montreal,

so to race as a Canadian in Canada for world championships. That's why I went to nationals to try to get on this team. It was hard to say no to. but with the bigger goal of Kona in mind, it just doesn't work. So they announced the team today, though, and my name is on the list. So it's just a little bit of like social media with actual, you know. Oh, so we kind of, we need to dispel the rumors, which seem official. I mean, Kyle Glass just texted me.

He already made a graphic that I was on the team. Like, Kyle, this got announced 20 minutes ago. That's the name of the game. He is on it. He is on it. I think Nib is doing all three. Nice, World's, Kona. But I heard she was doing all three.

And I'm like, don't let what she's doing influence that you're doing. You're not Taylor Nib. She could win all three. I can't win probably any of the three. But then again, if you try to win all three, are you going to win any of the three? I don't know. It's really hard to do all three of these races. That's true.

She literally could, though. I think she could if she picked one to focus on. Yes. I mean, if she can win all three, like magical, fantastic, awesome, but that's It's possible though. Freaking risky. Yeah, it's risky. I mean, the reasons I, the upsides are that it's so cool.

It's an opportunity I'll never have again. The downsize are like, I could get sick. I'm not going to be able to train properly for it because it's a very specific type of training. It's a different position on the TT bike. It takes away a week of heat prep and that time at home getting ready for Kona. in an already condensed bubble of time between the two events. Yeah.

It's really too bad. It's not 100K TT. That would fit in nicely. Yeah. I basically would have had to fly niece to Montreal, try to train there for a week in this place I don't know at all, do the race, travel home, recover from both of those races. And then a week later leave for Kona.

It's like you can't do that unless you're Superman. You're right. You're right. It's a good call. I was, the other, not to keep talking about this, but every single person I was asking about it, I was almost trying to get them to tell me not to, because I knew deep down that was what my answer should be. So my mom was trying to convince me to do it. And I was like, no, you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong. So I was trying to convince her to convince me to not do it.

Like that's at the bottom of that is you knowing that you shouldn't do it. Yeah, of course. I think we naturally do this as humans. Like, oh, I want to do this. thing. Who do I know that I can call that will tell me it's a great idea? Yeah, yeah, of course. No, I didn't want anyone to tell me it was a great idea. But my coach, Paula, wouldn't even tell me no. He was like, if you want to do it, we'll make it work. Wow. Wow. No, it's the right call. It's the right call for sure. Yeah, I agree. So this is a relevant bike tech question that I have for Eric. BikTech with Eric. So lots of traveling with bikes.

Some people do not take their pedals off because they do not see the reason why they should take their pedals off. Why should someone remove their pedals when flying with their bike? You really don't have to. I can get concerned about damaging wheels. Yeah, exactly.

That's my concern is that based on where the pedals fall, they could be very easy for them to smash into spokes. or the side of your rim. And it takes 30 seconds to take them off. So that's why I end up pulling the derailer off. I do pull the arrow bars off. I pull the pedals off.

It's like our bag, Paula's bag, specifically, you could leave all of these things on. It just feels like it's not worth the risk, at least for, you know, our livelihood depends on this. Eric, because of you, I also now remove the derailer. Yeah. It's quick-linked derailer. It's just not that big of a deal.

Yeah. The thing about the pedals is I think people over crank them and tighten them too much. So it's hard to get them off. You don't actually have to tighten them that hard. Oh, not at all. This is Eric taught me this trick. It's like the best thing ever. You barely need to tighten them at all.

I hand tightened them in Mexico for Cabo and it was fine. And then I couldn't get them off with my hands because, of course, they tighten. So people tighten pedals way too tight. Yeah, if you're cranking them as hard as you can, you're not going to be able to get them off easily, and then it's a huge pain in the butt. But if you just tighten them the appropriate amount, the peddling motion is the tightening direction.

And then when you take them off, it should be like, thunk off. No big deal. And after years of overtidding them and then Eric showing me the light, it's so satisfying when they come right off. Oh my gosh. Yeah, if I take my bike to anyone besides Eric

to do a check before the right, race, I'm like, oh, they're going to tighten my pedals down. I'm not going to be able to pack it myself. And sure enough, that's usually what happens. So even like pro mechanics or, you know, bike shops do this too. Crank them on. I mean, I get it. If you're

a bike shop or a pro mechanic and you, for whatever freaking reason, somebody's pedal does come off, you're effed. You are. Yes. You are effed. Okay, well, awesome. Well, we have a lot of great questions this week. You can

submit your questions to the podcast at that triathlonlife.com slash podcast, where you can also become a podcast supporter. And we have a podcast supporter who's going to win a special little prize this week. It's coffee themed, and I feel like there were a few different options. Eric, do you know what our winner is going to get this week? Instant coffee. Instant coffee from Thump, which is very, very, very good. We've mentioned this before. It is not your run-of-the-mill instant coffee. Even I can voucher someone who does not drink caffeinated coffee. I like this one. My opinion doesn't really matter on this, but it's great. Yeah, we've had it on sale for a while. Now it's the exact same coffee as we sell in whole bean form. So whole beans you thing. We got that

too. But it's a collaboration we did with Thump. We came up with the actual roast profile and everything that we tested like seven, eight different coffees. We did the slurp in test and everything. And we took it to Extera Portland and served that in the morning to everyone. And that is generally people's reaction. It's like, wow, that's instant cop. That's, this is really good. Yeah, the last, ever since me and Eric have been responsible for shipping out the prizes, we're so behind. I still have like one in my car that I'm supposed to drop off.

The children will understand. If you're a winner and you haven't received it yet, they're coming. They'll get it. Well, the winner this week, this is a great name, by the way. If this is you, Reed Bell, I feel like you really missed out. You should have been a famous celebrity. Reed Bell is just like two single syllable. It's just great.

Love that. Easy to spell too. So Reed Bell, congratulations. Reid, you've been a podcast supporter for a very long time. So thank you especially. Yes.

Appreciate it. Yeah, you can become a podcast supporter as well. So please do it. Do it. Do it. You know those things? Have you guys seen those memes where it's like the phones are listening to you? So you'll have like someone's partner or spouse like go over the phone

and be like, vacation in Aruba. Yeah. Or like, new carbon wheels. So they start getting ads for it. Yeah. That's how I am about being a podcast supporter, just slowly trying to incept. Okay, first question here from Opal. From who?

Hey, Opal. I couldn't read it. My eyesight's so poor. Hey, team, why do short course athletes wear sleeveless trisuits and long course athletes wear trisuits with sleeves? Opel, I love this question. You want to answer it? Sure.

Sleeved suits are more aerodynamic. And the number one thing you're fighting against in long course non-draft racing is aerodynamics. And in short course, you want the best range of motion you can possibly get when you're swimming specifically. And oftentimes you have to swim without a wetsuit and without a swim skin. And so those suits are specifically designed to be very fast swimming. just in that suit. And sleeves are not great in that scenario. Easy. Also, I just like, I feel like such an easy way to differentiate the look between the two sports. You turn on the TV. Yeah. If triathlon were on TV more. I do think I prefer the look of the

short course bathing suits much more. Oh, really? I guess I never, I love the way that the long course suits look. I guess that's just because it's the sport that I watch. You don't like watching girls run around in bathing suits? I do, I do, but there's something about like the what you wear. It just looks so legit and purpose driven. I don't know. And the short-course ones look kind of like just wearing as little as, I don't know.

Yeah, it's like seeing a TT bike with those big two shapes. Yeah. I wonder if part of that is because all the countries all have the same kit. So like all the French athletes have the same kit and then there's just white sponsors on it versus and long course, it looks pretty legit because the entire suit is a canvas

and you can just do so much with it creatively. I don't know if that might. I'd have something to do it. Yeah, there's more variety. There's more variety in the kits. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, you have a good chance to differentiate yourself and make a brand.

Yeah. Well, thanks for the question, Opal. It's Opel. I think you're saying it wrong. You're saying it completely wrong. Wait, why is O'Pol? Nothing. It's O'Pol.

If it was Italian, would you say O'Pol? Probably. Opal. Yeah, but It's not a Italian name So I don't know where I'm getting that from Opel, yeah, I've never met an Opel Well, you know, Bev, her middle name is Opel

Great, great Ants. Really, Beth? Like Mars Bar is Beth? Yes. Wow. Opel, okay, now I know. Next question here, do you ever incorporate sprint workouts in your training where the main focus is all out

max efforts like for 10 to 20 seconds with multiple minutes of recovery between intervals? My Garmin has been complaining I don't do enough anaerobic training. And at the same time, I have been seeing lots of content about how good sprinting is for you. I mainly do sprint triathlons, but technically speaking, a sprint try is not actually a sprint. I'm wondering at what distance race do you not need to do this kind of training, or can it still be helpful even for longer distance racing?

We did it today. In the pool. We did some pool sprinting for 10 meters and then just chill for the rest of the 50. I think it's good like neuromuscularly to maintain some connection with some sprint speed and like muscular activation.

I always feel really good. Like we always do early season, some hill sprints, which are like 30 second sprints, walk back recovery to like get some good activation and strength work early on in the season. And on the bike.

Paulo usually has us do like 15 second max sprints on the bike with five minutes recovery. early in the year. And they're really hard, but they're over fast. And then you have a long time to flush it out. Yeah,

it's not because we're going to go that speed in a race, but it is, you know, quote unquote, good for you. It's kind of like doing squats or like doing stuff in the gym to failure. It's a totally different

activation than doing low tension repeats for hours and hours. which is what like doing a two-hour ride would be. Yeah, right. Interesting, kind of fun, and definitely can be helpful. As long as you don't hurt yourself. Anecdotally, early season when we're doing these hill sprints

and we like run around for 45 minutes and then we do the hill sprints and then we run 10 minutes back to the car or whatever. That last 10 minutes, I'm like, frick, I should start every single run with a couple of sprints because I feel so good and bouncy right now, even when I'm going slow because the glutes are firing the hamstrings everything feels like it's come to the party now. Yeah, it wakes up your whole body.

Yeah, it feels really good. More of like a drill than a training session. A couple of friends of mine who ran a D1 track in college. They said the similar, they had a similar feeling about sometimes their coach would make them do completely cold at the beginning of a workout, an all-out,

I think it was an all-out 400 fast as they could or it might have been an all-out mile and then they said that they hated it and it felt terrible but then they would always feel really great the rest of the workout. That is some risky business

if you're not 20 years old. Yeah, that's right. How to get hurt. All out, all of my joints are like, I am out on the all-out. Right. I'm literally out. Okay. Next question here is from Danny. I'm going to shorten this up. There's a lot here.

But basically, this person is asking, for hilly rides, how do you account for the downhills being oh so very much faster than the uphill? Between work and family and triathlon and self-care, I tend to plan out the minutes as best as I can. But this one throws me for a loop sometimes. And the context here was when you're trying to do bike intervals outside. Do you think of this stuff in advance? Are there any things you can do? to mitigate this. Well, he's talking about like planning out a two-hour ride, and you can't always do that really effectively if it's a super hilly route, because you don't know how slow the uphills are going to be relative to the downhills,

relative to the terrain. So how do you know how to plan of full ride or intervals so that the interval time is correct? Right. I think that's kind of what he was saying. Yep. Yeah. My answer for that is we ride the same roads all the time. So I really know how long it takes to go up skyliner hard one time

and how long it takes to flip and do it back down. And how long this loop takes, it's a little bit of trial and error. But I think he also said in the question, like, sometimes I'll get back too early and then I'm like running up and down my block to get to the time. And I do think that's okay. As long as it's not like, oh, I'm running up and down to get an extra two meters. but if you have an extra 2K, you can do another 1K out, 1K back

from your house to get to the time. That's not crazy. And then just make the loop a little bit longer next time. Yeah. I mean, I have two pieces of advice. One is that Strava will predict how long it takes you specifically to do a route. So you can draw it out on Strava. And today, Strava assumed it would take me two hours to do a run

and it took me two hours and one minute. So it was very close to accurate. but something else that I do that's really diabolical and I'm ashamed to admit it and I'm wondering if you guys have ever done this is if I'm doing bike intervals and I'm running out of room on the climb, I will hold the brakes and just maintain whatever power I need to maintain. So I'm going slower, but technically, physiologically, I am doing the right work. Do you guys ever done that? On the uphill? Yeah. I would rather just stop the interval five seconds early.

Well, if it's five seconds, sure, but if it's 45 seconds. Oh, then you really messed up. Yeah, I've never done that. I do it all the time. Yeah. No, I don't do that. Yeah, maybe it's not great advice, but it has worked for me. I'm surprised you do that, Nick.

That doesn't really seem like something you were actually doing. I know, I know. I would definitely just add that 45 seconds on to the next one or just forget about it. That's the thing is your body doesn't know what interval you're doing. It's your brain that knows. Your next race is effed because you did 4.15 instead of five minutes on that one rep that one time. Good luck. Yeah, exactly.

Good luck being fast ever again. And I'm pretty anal about like, oh, I have 10 by 8. I'm doing 10 by 8, not 10 by 745. Yeah, totally. So I like to lap it at the exact time and then flip for the exact rest, not drag that out a little bit. But to some extent, if you're riding somewhere new or at a place where it's just impossible to do that distance of a hill, you can modify it a bit and everything will be fine. Yeah, you're right.

I guess the problem is I have it set so that my Wahoo automatically splits and my watch automatically splits based on the workout. I'm not triggering it manually. I love it. I love it because I don't have to think. But yeah. Yeah, but what if you're not at the bottom of the hill when it lasts? You're like an urge mode on the trainer guide.

That is so, it's like a straight jacket. I would hate that. Yeah, it is. It is. Well, good luck, Daddy. You got this. Just keep riding. We'll figure it out. We didn't really answer his question. No, there's no good answer for it. You got a guess based on experience and you might not get it perfect, but that's okay. You start to know, you start to know, you're like, oh, 55 miles with 4,000 feet of climbing. I know how long that takes, you know?

Okay, next question here. Maggie. Question for Paula. I'm relatively decent age grouper competing at 70.3 worlds purely to have the most fun and enjoy the experience. as a Midwesterner that has no access to practice descending, which is scarier. Marbea, which is where 70.3 Worlds was last year, or Nice, which is where 70.3 worlds is this year. Hmm. There were tears in Spain coming off the last descent. I'm trying to mentally prepare myself for the death gripping. That's in store.

Thanks for all you do. Please never stop posting pictures of the dogs, Maggie. Wasn't Marbea, like, wasn't the main issue there, not the dissent itself, but the wind? Am I remembering that right? Yeah, it was windy and it was fast. Nice is scarier by far, in my opinion. God, not what she wanted to hear. Some people might get scared more by the speed of Marbea,

but it wasn't scary technically. There were no sharp turns. There was no unpredictable nature of the course. It was very sweeping or straight. It was just fast, which, to be fair, was scary because of the crosswinds, because of the really windy nature of the women's day. but basically, remember in Marbea, I'm talking to this lady directly, that little section you did to go up the hill where you took a different way down on the highway.

So we went up that twisty way and down the highway. Basically in Nice, the descent is down the twisty way. Right. You do have to go slower because you're making these hairpin turns and you're riding a much more technical road. So if speed is the fear, Nice might actually feel better for you. you because you're just going to be going slower. But taking the correct lines, learning the corners, being able to, like, distribute your weight properly going around these corners so you can keep your speed.

That is all much more technical in Nice. And I'm scared for it. Honestly, I don't train on roads like that. So I'm automatically at a disadvantage, I would say. But I know it does help that I've done it once before. I would agree with Paula. Eric, are you bringing your road bike or your TT bike? To Nice.

Road, for sure. Yeah, road bike. Thank you. That's the answer I wanted to hear. Yeah, I mean, I'm going to have my new ASL9 built up in time for that. So I'm psyched wearing that. What I think Eric should actually start doing, though, is bringing his shift TT to races, because then I have a backup bike. I'm definitely doing that for Kona.

Well, no, not the shift TT. I don't even have a shift TT. Well, you bring my training bike shift TT. Yeah, well. And because I think, like, having an extra bike at a race. is a really smart idea. And the ShivvTT is super fun to ride. Like I think the Nis course

on a Shivv TT is actually the appropriate bike. Yeah, they're sure. Because there's a lot of sections where you need to be in your bars. But it's nimble enough and rides a little like a road bike for the descents. Anyway, we'll talk about that later.

I was just, it just occurred to me last night. Yeah. Yeah, I think I would personally much rather do Nis than Marbea. Marbea is like, if you want to go as fast as possible, you're riding in your aerobars with crosswinds at 50 miles an hour. More like Kona. Versus Nis is like, if you're good at descending,

you're never going over. Well, there's a couple times that you're going to be going that fast, but very short periods of time and there's so many corners. And like if you're going to somewhere for fun, Nisa's 100% the place you want to go. If you'd find that type of thing fun, most people don't at all. I wouldn't say most people. Yes, most people.

Okay. Most triathletes maybe. Riding downhill switchbacks on European roads that are narrow, not fun. That's like the definition of fun, I think. No, why don't you do a poll? Let's do a poll. You guys are a very, very, very small percentage of people. We're polling it.

Here we go. We're going to poll, guys. Okay, keep in mind this is the triathlon podcast. Oh, no, I think the fact that it's a triathlon podcast will make it a higher percentage afraid. But if we've pulled the entire cycling population. Yeah, that's different. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about this podcast.

Okay. People listening to this podcast. I'm curious. I would say most needs to be like 80 plus percent. Also, like the people that are going to be answering, the people that are answering aren't even going. So, of course, it's easy for them to say, oh, that sounds so fun.

But if you have to go race it, that's a different story. You're going to be scared shitless when you're answering this. Think of it as though you have to. You have to go erase this. That's the criteria. Okay, moving on. This one is from Chris. Hi, gang.

I recently moved, and I'm now closer to some decent trails for running and mountain biking. I'm wondering, what is the proper trail etiquette when running on a dirt fire road that's shared with mountain bikers and the occasional park ranger truck?

On the paved trails, I run on the left. Is it the same here? Thanks, Chris. Hmm. Well, Paula has a great story from this week that a little bit plays into trail etiquette. But if we're talking about a fire road, I mean, if you're running,

you should not be getting in anybody's way for the most part. You're pretty nimble. You can jump out of the way. Like, if you're on a single track, when I'm on single track and I encounter a bike, I almost always just jump out of the way for a second because it's so easy for me as a runner to do so versus a mountain biker has to stop

and put a foot down and, et cetera. And then the rule of thumb and bend is that if you're traveling uphill, you have the ride away. That's everywhere. Okay. So it's so much harder for somebody to get back up to speed after they put their foot down if they're on a steep hill. So kind of having that sort of thing in mind, just being considerate of how inconvenient or frustrating it is for this person to avoid me and trying to minimize everyone's like conflict, I guess. I don't know if we've ever said that on this podcast, but the uphill is the right of way. Yeah. A fire road, I would say, watch out for vehicles.

Yeah, I mean, on a fire road, there really shouldn't be, there shouldn't be too much trouble there. Unless it's a car. We basically never see vehicles on our fire roads in L.A., but maybe different parts of the country do have, like, frequent ranger vehicular traffic. Yeah, our fire roads are, you know, they're not just fire roads. They're like gravel roads that go places. So there are people driving on them to go camping or rafting, etc. So that's a little bit more of a thing. All right. Yeah, I was running the other day at Shevlin yesterday on a dual track gravel path

coming up on this guy that was not, he was running pretty well. Like it took me five minutes to catch him and go around him. And I was just like, hi, coming on your left. And as soon as I passed him, he was like, cool, have a nice day in a mean voice. What? And I was like, I looked back at him and I said, I said hi to you. Did I do something wrong?

And he just kind of gave me this look like he was, he was like embarrassed that I turned around and started talking to him. Because I'm like running not hard, but he might have been running hard and just be like, I just got past by a girl. So the fact that I turned around to converse with him kind of caught him off guard. I love it. And I got back to the parking lot and I was like,

oh, I really hope this guy rolls into the parking lot in a few minutes. And he never did. Because I was going to confront him again and be like, come on. What was I doing wrong? there. I gave you plenty of room. I told you I was passing. I said hello to you. I didn't. I wasn't wearing headphones. You weren't wearing headphones. Like there was nothing inappropriate about that encounter. So unfortunately, I think he didn't want to encounter me. He was having a shitty day.

And he just put that on you. And he probably realized that when you turn around and he's like, oh, I'm the asshole. Got it. Oops. Snapped him out of his little pity party or whatever was going on. But it like ruined my run. Because I I spent the next 30 minutes being like, did I do something wrong? Should I go back and apologize? Like, it's just before you react on a trail to somebody, think about how it'll make them feel. Well, it's just so, it's, you know what's funny is I literally remember the last time something like this happened. I went by someone and then like they were just, they like moved off the trail. They were standing in the middle of the trail and they just like stepped off the trail as I was riding by and they go, you're welcome.

and I'm like, what, like, you were standing in the middle of the trail and then you got off, it's a, it's a trail that everyone else is using, but I thought about it for the next two hours. Yeah. That stuff sticks with you. And then you think about all these, like, things you should have said. But you didn't. Yeah. Well, I usually think about going back and just like fill in their ear with my thoughts, but I was going to do that. I was like, this guy's probably running 10 steps behind me.

I should just flip and have a chat with him. We can run together. Maybe we'll become friends. He would have loved that. Yeah. Okay. Next question here. Hey guys.

Love the show. I'm a long time runner and swimmer. I'm starting to train for my first 70.3 next year. I live in a remote part of Vermont with mostly gravel roads. So I don't think it makes sense financially to get a dedicated triathlon bike that I wouldn't be able to ride much outside of race day. I'm currently riding a specialized diverge sport, which is a gravel bike, by the way. and I'm wondering what changes you'd recommend to turn it into a solid 70.3 race day setup.

Specific tires or other components that would make a meaningful difference. I won't be racing competitively, but I'd still like to be as fast and efficient as possible. I'd love to hear your recommendations for getting the most out of a diverge for 70.3. Thanks and love the show. I love these types of questions. I'm going to leave this on, Eric. Would you even change the cassette or the chain ring if you're trying to just have fun? no wait you hate these types of questions well these questions sometimes are like well so like i have a

Ferrari but i like i want to off road so like what could i do to it and like these are like just two very different things and if you just want to like it's it's really up to you how much you want to optimize and if you don't care and you're truly going to do a thing for fun and like we ride our gravel bikes on the road all the time if especially if you have SRAM and you have that 10 tooth cog and the back. Like, that, it goes pretty freaking fast, like, faster than I could pedal my gravel my gravel bike for a whole 70.3. So, yeah, if you're in it to complete it, I wouldn't spend any extra money. Well, maybe just tires. Otherwise, you're just going to go an hour slower. Exactly. But still, it's like, do you care enough to spend $120 on new tires? If you do,

then heck yeah, go for it. That's the biggest bank for your buck. If you want to spend another $200, get some arrow bars. It'll definitely make you faster. Yeah. It's almost like they want us to tell them, like, it'll be fine. You don't need a T2B. To enable them.

Or to tell them you should just get a T2Buy. I did my first triathlon on a full-blown mountain bike on the road. And it made me love it enough that I kept doing triathlon until this day, 26 years later. So don't let the bike keep you from doing it. also when you are racing a 70.3 and you guys don't have this experience, but I do. And you see someone on a legit gravel bike with gravel tires and like a legit gravel setup, you're just like, who is this badass who is doing this race on a gravel bike?

So you can always just keep it stock and you get those kind of, you'll get people that'll like pump you up on the course too, I'm sure. I don't think that's true. Lean into it. Where a tank top? Badass or dumbass? I scream, I say something to them. I'm like gravel bike. Oh my God, that's awesome.

Okay, that was from Emily, by the way. Next question here. Hi, guys. Marcus here from Dubai. I have a question about cycling and running cadence. What cadence do you aim for during training versus racing? Training versus racing, I would say cadence. You should train at what you want to race at.

Otherwise, you're not training for what you're doing on race day, which is the whole point of training. Sometimes in a race I'll have a little bit higher cadence naturally than when I train just because it's like a little bit shorter going a little bit harder but for the most part I Is it something you even think about

that's what I was thinking I was thinking that you guys don't really think about cadence you're just it's kind of imprinted into your pedal motion now yeah no I mean don't think about it so much on the bike but on the run like I tend to like just

have way too low a cadence if I don't think about it at all. And over time, I do feel better in a longer effort if I have put a little bit of effort into, you know, just a little bouncier and a little bit quicker foot strikes. You don't want to go so far as that you're making this completely unnatural running motion to achieve exactly 92 strides per minute or whatever. But keeping in mind that when you're running faster, you are going to have a higher turnover. And less foot strikes is also just and is also easier on your joints. Oh, wait, he's talking about running?

I think running and riding, right? Oh, okay. Yeah, cycling and running, yeah. Certainly cycling, there's no reason to have a lower or higher cadence during training versus racing unless you're specifically doing low RPM intervals for strength work. Yeah. Or high cadence is also a drill. Like, if you're able to do 120 rotation RPMs for 30 seconds, it naturally brings up your

neurological ability to ride at 90 to 100 for an hour. I would always do that. We would do that with Neil Henderson. I've done some of the low cadence stuff, but I've never done the high cadence. Is that something that even someone in my position you think could benefit from? Yeah. Yeah, we would do max cadence drills with Neil Henderson all the time. It's a good winter thing.

Super easy ride and then you put your bike on almost no tension and try to spin your legs up to like 150 RPM. It's like a track cyclist thing. They practice this type of thing so that they can ride 110 RPM for their whole race. So it's just like similar to what the hill sprints do or the sprinting on the bike wakes up your neurological system. And then it makes it smooths out your pedal stroke once you bring it back down. Yeah. So that 90 RPM feels super smooth, super easy.

If you're trying to go 120 RPM, it's very obvious if your pedal stroke is super bouncy or moving, et cetera. The key is to go as high cadence as you can without bouncing in your saddle. and then you're creating like these really good movement patterns and you get better at it over time. It's really hard to do it first. Ever seen that video of the, I think it was the Japanese track cycling team doing those on rollers like high cadence drills

and it looks like it's sped up or something. They're going so fast. It looks like 200 RPs. Yeah. But keeping their body steady. They're probably doing over 200 RPs. Their body says perfect. That's why it looks fake. Yeah, it's cool.

Yeah, cool stuff. Okay. Last question here. Catherine from DC, here's my question. For the overall development as a triathlete, does it make sense to plan and think in longer term periods than just a season? And by a season, she means a year. For example, is it helpful to take an off year every five years to race less? Have fun with the stuff you might not otherwise sign up for or focus on maintenance only, almost like an off-season reset on steroids. Sometimes I feel like I'm building up cumulative mental and physical fatigue across

seasons that I'm not sure I can fully shake with only a few weeks off in the offseason break. Wondering what your thoughts are and if you have had any experience with something similar through your long years of racing. Keep inspiring. Paul, I can't wait to share the course of you again in Nice. Catherine. That is super interesting. Eric, you feel like, I feel like you've literally done this. Well, we all did this with COVID.

During COVID, yeah, it was like a forced year off. And leading into that, I, I definitely felt like every off season, you know, which we would do for like three weeks. At the end of those three weeks, it felt like every season, those three weeks are getting shorter and shorter and shorter. And I would come back and feel like, I just don't know if I'm ready to get back into this and go back to training camp and the whole thing just yet. I feel like I want another couple weeks. And then, yeah, COVID kind of gave us that whole entire unstructured year. And I mean, looking at Paula's career, that was the thing.

thing that ultimately, like that period of time is when she stopped dealing with perpetual injuries. So whether that was due to the speed that she had to run or the frequency of racing or the stress or et cetera, whatever, I would say 100% yes, having some sort of more sustained off thing would be good for a lot of people. Yeah. It doesn't have to be a whole year though. It could be like, oh, I'm not going to sign up for a race until next September.

instead of Oceanside. So you're kind of like taking a little bit more mellow approach to the season, but I do think it helps so much. Like we just are on this rat race cycle of finish racing in December, start again in April again and again and again and again. And after COVID, I told myself, I'm just going to race like twice a year from now on. That was the best year of my life.

And then I raced amazing in December. But it's really hard to do that when you got like the pro series. And all these races that are, you know, the T-100 then was born and it's your career. So it's a lot harder to actually just take everything off the table and put all your eggs in one basket. Yeah. And I think it is a really interesting question or a thought, though, as you look back on some of the pro athletes who have had seemingly shorter careers, like if they had gone, yeah, three years on, one year mellow and only raced three times that season or something, taking a three month off season. instead of a three week off season,

like would that have ultimately lengthened their career by three or four years on the back end? Right. But then, yeah, like Paula said, you're at the cost of like trying to explain this to your sponsors. And if you miss one, quote, miss one race, like if Paula doesn't go race Oceanside, there's this huge, like, why aren't you doing that?

What's wrong with you? Like, what does this mean for the rest of the, even though? I think people care less than you think they care. But yeah, it has that feeling. You feel that way. You feel like the FOMO so intense. Not you, Paula, but like people. Like you feel, if you see other people racing,

it's natural for you just to be like, oh my God, I'm doing nothing. And all these other people are racing. And it's like, that's hard to fight. Yeah, it's easier. It was easier during COVID when nobody was racing and you weren't watching races. If races are going on.

And you also have to strike while the iron is hot. Like if you're racing really well and you're on a roll, you're not just going to take a year off. Like, you only have so many races in your life that can be really good. and so many peaks in your life that can be profitable. And that's why when people, like, I had this big run and short course where for two years I was winning every race I did. But then I got super injured and people were like, well, do you regret doing that?

That streak of like winning. I'm like, no, that set up my career so that I was making money and I had motivation and it got me to the Olympics. And there's like so much good that came out of it. So, yeah, on the flip side, you kind of just kind of, if you're a pro, you kind of. I just have to run with it. Yeah, we're tangenting just slightly into the professional aspect of this, but this is what ultimately launches people's careers. Like going and winning 170.3 or 270.3s or one Iron Man has not launched anyone's career.

It's like the year of like every single weekend, you remember hearing Holly Lawrence, like smashing everyone that just cemented her position in the sport for the next 10 years as like a household name because of the, I feel like every time I open Instagram Holly's winning always winning a race yeah for sure you could take a year off and just do gravel races

yeah if you're not a pro or just what about just taking like six months actually off of the sport is you think there's any benefit in that like away from sport in general uh well yeah but I don't know there's always the risk that you have

don't want to come back at all because you discover how nice it is to not have to go to the pool and be on the schedule I disagree I think the type of people that do this are like addicted to exercise and if you take six months off you're going to hate it. Yeah. And if you get through six months with zero exercise and you're fine, then yeah, maybe you just keep rolling with that. You know, like travel on anyway. You made it out of the mafia somehow. Well, I think that's as good of a place of us as any to stop. For the pod? For the whole pod. For the whole pod. We did it. It is so hot here and I'm in a closed room to help with the sound.

I'm sweating like crazy. That's a fairly common occurrence for the podcast. Yeah. Sweating it out for the sound quality. It's what we do for the sound quality. You're welcome everyone. Yeah. It's really not hot here compared to Kona.

Actually, you know what that makes me think? I've started editing the video. There's actually going to be two videos from Kona. One is the Paula training video and the other one is me showing off the 360 drone video. But in Paula's all of Paula's interviews, there's like chickens and birds. Birds and frogs and goats in the background. It's actually pretty hilarious because there was no closed room situations there. Everything's outside in Hawaii.

Yeah, we're staying on the farm. That's the vibe. Yeah. By the way, that's 360 drone. I hate it. When you're riding with it. Of course. When you're riding and that fucking thing is buzzing around you and it sounds like it's right next to you and it's going to hit you in the head.

Oh my God. I was like, get this thing away from me. and it's so loud. It gets so close to you. It goes so fast. We used to have this as a bit on the podcast. How much Paula hated drones? We should bring it back.

I don't mind drones if they're just like doing their thing high up, getting to some head on. A mile away. You don't even know they're there. But this drone that Eric has been using, it's like a fly on steroids. Hell yeah. That buzzes past your head.

And what if he messes up and it hits me? I mean, it's a real possibility. It gets so close to me. You'd have, you'd have something to hold over him for the rest of your lives. Wouldn't that be great? Yeah, you'd actually have a reason to complain about it. But in this thing's defense, the props are completely covered.

So if it smacked you in the head, it would literally just smack you in the head. It wouldn't like chop your nose off. Yeah, but it's going quite fast, right? It's not going as fast as I want it to, but it's going, it can go fast enough. Like, how fast? Like, it can go like 40 miles an hour. Right, Eric? You don't fly in FPV mode.

again, we're spirally, but it turns out if you turn it on with the toggle in sport mode, it actually just defaults to normal mode. So the first half of the filming, I was like, why can I not catch up to her? This is so ridiculous. I thought this thing was faster than this. Yeah. But it got to figure out for the second half of the video. You were also flying it quite close to the cars.

Well, that's the whole thing. It's a very wide-angle lens and the fact of like it's a very confident flying drone is you can get it a lot closer. And if I smash it into anything, it's not going to break it because of the way it's designed. I don't care about breaking the drone. I care about it hitting another moving vehicle. It was not that close to any cars.

Okay. Oh, that's good. Please break the drone. I mean, no, nah, nah, nah. Just kidding. I'm just kidding. It's going to get some cool footage, guys. And if you know how to fly it, which you and Nick do, then okay. But just

for a general consumer to be able to purchase this seems crazy. crazy to me. Oh, yeah. For sure. Agree with that statement. It is a little crazy. If you buy it in normal mode, it will not crash into things, but, you know, that's not fun. That's not why you buy that drone for normal mode.

A 12 year old could pick this up, put it in sport mode, and literally kill someone. No. Well, an FPV mode is even more dangerous. But yeah, but you need a little practice for that. All I was trying to say is that there's some banger videos coming out this week. So if you didn't get enough Kona, you're going to get enough Kona in the video, I promise. This is it. I'm also really aware of like spamming people with Kona too hard before the actual race week. Because people get, I get overloaded with it when I am not there.

That's why we're doing it right now. And then during race week, we're just shutting her down. Yeah, I'm coming in. T-shirts on race week. I'm coming into Kona pretty late and basically won't really need to train when I get there because I'm coming into late. I will not be cooked. I will not be riding up and down the Queen K a hundred million times. It's part of the reason of this trip. Yeah. Good.

Okay. Well, that's all, right? Yeah, that's all, folks. That's it, that's all. Okay, we'll chat with you next week. Bye, everyone. Later.