That Triathlon Life Podcast - Eric ramps up to race a UTMB qualifier, guest appearance from pro triathlete Jackie Hering, and more!

Episode Date: October 9, 2025

This week we barely had enough time to squeeze in a podcast recording with so much going on. We kicked things off with updates on Eric’s Fireflies Patagonia film, Team TTL sign-ups, Paula’s Junkyard Dogs podcast recording, Nick riding bikes with Jan Frodeno, and even a surprise guest appearance from pro triathlete Jackie Herring — all before diving into Bike Tech with Eric and listener-submitted questions.This week on the TTL triathlon podcast, we discussed:Flared handlebarsPlanning for trail conditions and safety in new placesFlynn’s favorite post-activity snackBike escorts for leaders in triathlon racesSwim paddles and how to use them in workoutsHow to handle bad road conditions during a raceA big thank you to our podcast supporters who keep the podcast alive! To submit a question for the podcast and to become a podcast supporter, head over to ThatTriathlonLife.com/podcast

What's up, everybody? Welcome to that triathlon life podcast. I'm Erica Lauggestrom. I'm Paula Finley. I'm Nick Goldstone. It's a crazy week. There's a lot going on. Isn't it a crazy week every week for us, though?

I think this week's extra crazy. We just had to cut ourselves off after talking for about 20 minutes. It's like, you know, the classic. I'm sure every podcast says this. Save it for the pod. Yeah, right? But, wow. I'm racing this weekend.

Kona, Women's Edition is going on this weekend. we opened up orders for the team TTL. Team issue kit. It's going off. It's exciting. People are fired up. Your Patagonia film is coming out today. When I went to Patagonia to ride gravel bikes with Ian Boswell for charity,

what seems like five years ago, it was actually this calendar year. That's coming out, same day as this podcast. Man, it's exciting. And Nick, I'm going to see you in like... Less than 24 hours. 24 hours. That's right. So we got a lot of ground to cover and we paused so that we could do it while we're recording. So if you're here, Paul and I are both professional athletes.

Nick is a professional musician, amateur triathlete. And welcome. Hello everybody, Paula. You've been awfully quiet. How are you? Just trying to coordinate swim plans for tomorrow. So that's why I'm just texting away over here. Yeah, we love swimming.

Of course. It's my favorite part of triathlon. No, I actually like swimming lately. it makes it so much better that I have people here to swim with. So I will literally bend over backwards to swim when other people are swimming. Yeah. Because it's intolerable without a group. Yeah. And neither of you would ever swim masters is, or that's a question actually. We kind of have our own little master's group going on. I mean, we're not masters. We're all triathletes, but it's a little unpredictable. Masters, you know, depending on the master's group in the day of the

week and how serious the group is, et cetera, what you show up for. But yeah, we have a pretty good critical mass here in town right now with Paula swims with Andy Kruger and Adele. How do you say her last name? Lichen. Lichen. I don't really know, actually. Yeah. Andy was on the development team. Adele's, she got fourth at Augusta, I think. So a legit little fun, positive, low ego swim group, which is, which is huge because I'm not pulling my weight on the swim partner duties right now as I'm getting ready for this weekend. Well, you guys have done a lot in the past week, too. A lot of stuff has happened.

So I don't know how you do anything. You guys, I'm texting with Jackie right now, and she's offering to call in. Oh, really? Nick, can we do that? Do we have the technology? I think we can do that, yes. We have the technology to do that. Well, I texted her, so if she can figure it out, great.

She'll just pop into this. But in the meantime, a few other things. Eric, you teased a lot of this when you entered the podcast. podcast today, but we have Team CTCL orders that are up. Is there anything you wanted to clean up on that? If you're on the team, I would just say your best bet for dealing with sizing or any questions that you have are to go onto the app. It's that or email Jordan at that triathlonlife.com. He's being an absolute legend helping everyone out with sizing and all sorts of questions about the team. And then I think on the app and stuff, Kistelli also has a representative who is

trying to help out with answering your questions. Oh, that's helpful. Thanks, everybody. For reference, I wear a small PR speed suit and small cycling kit and small T-shirts. And I'm like 5-7. Yep. And 1205 pounds or so. But, yeah, the chat is a good place to do that.

Yeah. A whole bunch of like, hey, I'm this size and this height. What do you think? And people chiming in, everybody's being super helpful, which is exactly how we wanted to kick off the whole team experience. So we're psyched. Nice. And Eric, you have a Patagonia film, the Fireflies film for the people who know it by that name that was supposed to come out a while ago. And people weren't sure. I had some people asking me even about it. Can you give us an update on where people can watch that? Yeah, the full backstory on that is we were trying to decide where it should come out exactly if it should be on Wahoo's channel, specialized channel, our channel. And we ultimately ended up going with TTL is going to be putting it out, which is a huge, big, exciting deal for us, specialized to,

is going to help and give support. Same with Wahoo. But this is back when Ian and I went on, we did like a thousand kilometers of the gnarliest gravel I've ever done in 10 days in Patagonia, Chile. And it all raised money for kids cancer research in Patagonia. So all for a good cause. The film's really cool.

I shot it while riding the ride. And it's finally coming out on YouTube tomorrow at 9 a.m. Pacific time. So that's October 9th, Pacific time. I can't wait to watch it because I still remember the texts that we were getting from you at the end of each one of those days of, oh my God, I can't believe we got through another day of that treacherous ride. It was heavy. There were a lot of awesome people, but some wide-ranging abilities, and we all had to finish the ride. So there were some pushing up hills. And I think everybody had some spiritual moments that really reaffirmed to them why they were there.

I haven't even seen it yet. It's a great cause. I actually didn't edit it. I had to hand off the edit because I was working on a million other things, but the editor is a fan of the podcast. Mark, he's an awesome guy, and I think it turned out really well. So I really hope everyone will check that out. If it moves you, share it with somebody else.

Consider signing up for a Pada go for a Fireflies, a charity ride, and helping them raise money. Okay. And now what feels like the main event here is Eric, you're racing this weekend, an ultra 50K with big hopes and dreams. We're going to be there together. How are you feeling? Yeah, I mean, I feel like I've been doing a lot of talking at this point, but yeah, this race is kind of the, oh my gosh, there she is.

Never mind. We have a- Thank you. You saved me from a long monologue. Player 4 has entered the chat. Test, test. Wow. Guys, what an honor here. Jackie Herring is joining us,

which is the first time we've had a video component of someone on this podcast. What an honor, Jackie. It's still daylight there. Where are you? From Kona. Thanks. Yep, I'm in Kona.

It's only, it's not even dinner time here. Oh, and who's this? Guy. We have Sky. Hi, Sky. The whole fan is there. She just busted open her coconut. We're all here.

Yep. Amazing. So you guys are well hydrated. Jackie, I know you've been doing a lot of media this week with Zoot, Athletic Greens, all your sponsors, the Iron Man stuff, Raw. But if you have like five minutes, we would love to hear how it's going and how you're feeling about this weekend. And I absolutely eat up every single ounce of Kona content. And I thought your breakfast with Bob was the best one.

You must be the only person that watches those. Yeah, it's funny. Last night, I just was like. in a trance and I watched like eight of them in a row. That's amazing. I left the room. I won't lie, but. Okay, here's why I watch it though. Here's why I watch it.

His questions are not good. But I can really read people's minds. Like when I watch them, I can see what kind of a mindset they're in, how they're going to race. I can basically count people out just by watching their breakfast with Bob. Okay. So who do I not have to? to worry about. Oh, I don't think that's okay. Later. You probably know already. That's T.TL after

dark. Yeah. All right. F. Off air. Off air. Yeah. But how's it going there? Are you feeling good? Yeah, it's going good. It's, uh, I haven't been here in so long. It's just like super good vibes. It's starting to pick up with, uh, kind of traffic and energy and people, but it's pretty fun. I mean, I saw you just rode 100 miles or something today, so you must be getting in the vibes. It's so crazy how addicting it is. That's not why I rode long today, but I definitely wish I was there. It's serious FOMO, and I've never even done an Iron Man. So it makes me want to be there next year.

It's beautiful, yeah. I'm curious because you've done it like a bunch of times and you've done it when there's men and women. Like how is it with like being just the women and then knowing that like it's going to be everybody next year? Like is that like a palpable energy around next year? You know, like how does that? Can you talk to that at all? Yeah, I think I think it is a little different. I think it just feels smaller.

Just kind of how it did. You weren't, you weren't a niece last year, but it just feels like, just think about 70.3 worlds, but just with half of the people there. Yeah. So you still see dudes here doing training, supporting their significant others or whatever, but there's obviously not very many of them. And yeah, it just feels less people, which to me, I don't mind.

I kind of don't like it to be super duper crowded right before the race. So that's kind of nice. You haven't had to wait in any long lines in coffee shops or anything like that. It actually sounds great. Yeah. Yeah. So I think with double the amount of people, I actually can't even imagine the traffic situation. It's already really bad.

So the traffic will be bad. but yeah i mean we mostly care about the coffee shop lines so i'm glad you touched on that yeah i mean that's that's a big thing so yeah it's it's gonna be different but i think it'll be just like more energy and i can see where like the expo would be a lot bigger yeah um there'd just be like probably more like sponsor and height type of presence yeah i would say from the outside watching it it's i don't miss having the men there there's so much focus and videos and stuff on the on the on the women contenders, which I think is so cool and positive. And it's all everyone's thinking and talking about, which it's going to be such an exciting race.

I think there's 15 of you who could finish in the top five, but you're going to be in the top five to pay for your Airbnb. We actually have that discussion prior to you actually starting the recording. Let me spin around so they can see the view of why I have to pay for this sucker. Wow. That's amazing. So, Jackie, quick question. Yeah. Quick question. How early does you have to book that? Like, should I be booking stuff for next year right now? If I think I might do it? I think it depends how much you, yeah, if you care a lot about your location and it depends how much you want to spend. So I think I booked this a little bit late because I didn't even qualify until June of this year. And I didn't want to book it. And actually, this place happened by accident because I was looking, I had a place booked. I was looking at this. I was looking at this.

as like a dream place. I'm like, holy cow, look at this insane place. And then I accidentally thought I was clicking to view more or view what the price would be. But then I have reserved a non-refundable reservation. This happens to me with cameras all the time. Me with bicycles is so strange. I got it. My finger just clicked it.

That's hilarious. And then there was no choice. I even messaged them. I said it was an accident. They said, sorry. That's crazy. It's not like a flight where you have 24 hours to back out. It's like permanent. No. But I'm happy about it. It's good. You know, it's beautiful view. Kids get to play. And in the grand scheme of things, like how many times actually do you get to do a trip like this? So it is worth, you know, throwing down and enjoying it. Yeah. Remember when we all stayed together in Cabo in that nice place? It really adds to the whole vibe when you're in a nice place.

So beach access, all that. I mean, I think it helps have a good race if you're happy where you're staying. I agree. I feel like this was a super positive impact that Paula had on my life. Prior to Paula, I was like, all split a house with like seven dudes. So we're all paying like $3 a night. And it's we're going to save so much money. But then you're like when you bet on yourself with like a little bit nicer accommodation

and a better flight, et cetera, and not skimping on all those things. You're like, no, I'm serious. I'm a real person. I'm real athlete. I'm real serious about this. This is important. Yeah. And that, I don't know, it feels good and adds to the whole thing.

Yeah. So, Jackie, you're ranked second in the pro series, right? Right now? I was going to say fifth, I thought, after that video that we watched last night before Bob. Yeah, a fifth sounds more right. I think I'm like, I'd say I'm in like a solid battle for like third through fifth. Okay. Or maybe third through six, depending.

It like really depends kind of how things shake out. Yeah. Like if you have a good race, you could podium in the pro series. Yeah. Right. Right now you're a fourth. There we go. Fourth.

Heck yeah. I feel pretty good about that, guys. I got to say. It's amazing. I would be so psyched. We're really proud of you. Well, we'll let you go since this was a very impromptu interview, but I'll call you tomorrow for a more in-depth conversation.

Yeah, I need to hear your thoughts on all the breakfast with Bob people. and some other things. But yes, I really hope that you will be here next year and you're going to love it. I'm sure all of your fans hope so too. We're going to have to bring you into the entourage and the advisory board of Paula de Kona. Oh, Jackie.

Also, it's your birthday on Saturday. You're racing on your birthday. That's my birthday. So happy birthday. Oh, man. I know. Stop, we. That's actually the main time.

topic of all my interviews is my age, which whatever. Do they know you're a mom? That's my shtick. They also know that. Yeah. Yeah. Luckily, the mom's been overshadowed by the age now, so we're just going to roll on that. Right, right, right.

Because there's enough other moms. Multi-time mom. You guys, I didn't bring that up to bring up your age, but I do want to say happy birthday, and we're all cheering for you. You're our favorite. Thanks, guys. You're going to have a good race. I can feel it.

Okay. Thank you. We'll talk to have a good pod. Talk to you later. Bye, bye-bye. Okay, back to Eric's race. Wow, yes, back to your race, Eric. Oh, my gosh.

That was fun. That was great. I'm excited for that race. I'm excited to watch Kona. I'm going to be racing. Nick, we're going to be racing, whatever, as that's going on. But maybe you just give me some updates when you see me. You know, I don't think you're going to want to hear it.

But sure, I could give you some updates. Luckily, it'll be going on all day, right? Yeah. Yeah, so what I'm doing this week, It's called Kodiak 50K by UTMB. It's a world major, which means for me that the top 10 people in each race, there's a 50K, 100K, 100k, and 100 miler, you'll qualify for the world for the finals in Chamonie next year, which is a goal that I set out to do just because it seems like that is such an incredible

show, just like Kona is or whatever, and I'd really like to experience it. And this is a necessary stepping stone. So hopefully just to get inside of the top 10, it's a really stacked field of guys in the 50K. I got some international hitters. Probably the biggest thing to think about is that it's at altitude. It's in Big Bear, California, which is why I'm flying into L.A. and driving up with Nick. And I think the race starts around 7,500 feet. You go up to like 8,500 feet.

And so I've been doing as much as I can to get ready for that. But I feel good. Feel ready to go. How similar is it to the 50K? that you've done well at in terms of elevation gain? Pretty similar. It's pretty similar to Smith Rock, I think, in the total amount of elevation gain.

It just comes in a different way. So you do like 3K to begin with, and then you do like 2K or 3K straight up their ski hill there in Big Bear, which is going to feel amazing at 7,000, 8,000 feet. And then you're kind of running along this really cool ridge up above Big Bear Lake for the majority. of the race.

So just not blowing myself up on that first climb is going to be pretty critical. And I really hope that I'm around some other people of comparable speed at the top of that. So I have people to run with. That's fun versus being by yourself. Yeah. So it's not an outrageous amount of elevation gain. It just comes like kind of hard and fast at the beginning. And then death by a thousand cuts as you go.

Have you decided or thought about this is like the ultra thing? Have you decided about your, what shoes you're going to wear and what gear you're going to bring with you. Oh yeah. I mean, I haven't made the final decision on the shoes, but I've really loved on race trail shoes. And then a buddy at Hoka also sent me their latest. I think it's the Carbon Rocket Rocket X Carbon. I met him today. You met Nathan? Yes. Oh, he's such a good guy. Yeah, I met him today. So the story on him is I stayed at his place when I did my first professional non-draft race in Austin, Texas called Cap Tech's Try Lifetime. Lifetime. Lifetime. Lifetime. time try series back of the day before they switched to gravel. And I slept on his couch,

got heat stroke, massively ended up in the hospital. And we've stayed friends ever since. That was 20. That's so funny. Yeah, I don't know. If he or anybody was able to tell me, you will definitely get an on or a Hoka sponsorship. If you run in one of these shoes, then I would run in one of those shoes. I like them both a lot. There's a lot of great shoes out there right now. What about packs? I just made a pivot on my pack because you have to carry a cell phone in this. Oh. And I want to carry a third flask just to like fill up along the way. So I've been running in the on vest and I love that vest for ultra lightweightness, but I can't really get anything out of the pocket in the back while running. And I need to be able to get to

the third. It's like a freaking 26K like super fast trail vest. So I'd probably switch back to the Solomon one just for this. Okay. And is there something I can do to help you at aid stations that I see you at. That's what's unfortunate about this one. There's only one aid station where you could do anything for me and that's with like 10K to go. I see. And at that point, me, so I'm trying to be self-sufficient and then we'll talk about it on the drive to Big Bear and maybe I'll have like a Hail Mary, you know, caffeine gel or something there for you to hand off to me. Okay. Yeah. I mean, yeah, 10K doesn't seem very far, but 10K is very far to go when you're feeling terrible. It'll be a while. like it's at the bottom of a goalie sort of thing

and then you're like run back up to the ridge along the ridge for a minute and then back down into town. So it'll be kind of a longish time. But it would be awesome if the aid station was at 20 miles instead of like 28 miles. That's where I would ideally get like

what I did in Black Canyon where Paul gave me two fresh flasks. That would be ideal. But everybody's in the same boat. Yeah. Oh, it's going to be so fun. I can't wait. It's going to be cool.

Number one name in my race, Caleb Olson, who won Western States this year. Wow. I thought he said he switched to the 100K. He did not. Hayden Hawks switched to 100K. And Eli Hemming switched to the 100K. And I did a little bit of research. There's a Spanish guy.

There's several, I mean, there's several dudes in the race. There's like five really strong guys. There's one guy who got 13th at the up-down world championships of trail running two weeks ago. He has a 63-minute half marathon PR. What? Yeah, so there's some hitters. That's like a legit pro half marathon time. Yeah, I mean, you're not like signing a deal with Nike to run marathons, but almost.

You guys, I recorded a podcast with Joe Skipper this week. I want to hear about this. I still haven't heard about this. There's nothing really, I haven't even heard it yet because he like hides it behind a paywall for a week and then he releases it after that. But I thought it was a good conversation. But when I logged into Riverside, it saves your name and it said the boss. The boss? Because like for our podcast, I just have that as my permanent name.

Oh, but it says Paula now. Yeah, because I logged into the junkyard dogs and it said the boss. And I was like, oh, that's embarrassing. I need to switch this real quick. Sorry. But it was a little funny that it stayed like that. Yeah. So when can people listen to it?

Do you know? Probably sometime next week. I'm not really sure. Is this under the trathlon hour or something now? No, it's Junker Dog's podcast. They've been around since before we were. But it's just Joe now by himself. Yeah, yeah.

And then he brings on guests. So, yeah, I don't know. I thought it was good. Nice. Sweet. What I remember. If you guys want to go listen to more. Yeah, we'll listen to it on the way to Big Bear.

Yeah. Can I tell my triathlon celebrity story? I can make it very brief. Tell us about you dropped. Jan Fredino. Yeah, no. Tell it. Nick, it's a good story.

Yeah, I mean, there's at least one funny part. But we, he was, Jan was here, Jan Fredino, you know, go to triathlon, was in L.A. as part of the kind of a West Coast tour with Rizan, the apparel company. Which we established is the California tour, not the West Coast tour. We're a little bombed here in Oregon. Atte.com for visit, but we understand. But Nick, you sent us a screenshot of the advertisement for this bike rack. and you're like, two things. A.

Jan, burn that helmet. Yeah. Why they are. And B, I guess I'm riding with Jan on Friday. Yeah. That Canyon helmet with the weird, like. You know, it looks weird in that photo. He totally pulled it off in person.

Oh, he's, yes, everything about him is cool. The helmet is cool. It looks weird in that picture. It looks like a hockey helmet. It looks good on him. It looks like a hockey helmet. It looks like a hockey helmet. helmet. I don't know.

Anyway, you did ride with him. But the hockey helmet would be cool. Did ride with him. And because it was a Friday morning, there were very few people on the ride. It was like 35, 40 people on the ride. That's very few. Well, yeah.

I mean, normally when that shop, Luf, it's a shop in Venice, when they put on a ride on the weekend, or even on a weekday evening, it'll be like 120 people. And Yon's not there. You know, it's just a cool social ride. Oh, wow.

So there were some triathletes that showed up on T bikes, only a couple. and some guy brought his T-T bike to get signed. But anyway, we did this ride. We went up, we just did a little loop in the Santa Monica Mountains, not even the nicest loop, but we were climbing, and his mind was blown at the riding here. Similar, I think, to how you guys had a feeling when you came here

and lived in Ventura for a bit of like, wow, these mountains are so fun to ride. And we got to the top, hung out for a bit, and then we started descending, and him and I descended together, halfway down the descent. my bike computer flew off of my bike and then we both stopped and he ran up the road to grab it for me I grabbed it, put it back on and we descended the rest of the way and he filmed the whole thing too

so I was on cloud nine I thought it was the coolest thing I got to ride with Jan Verdino then we got back we get back to this coffee shop Rizan paid for everyone's coffee and Jan and I are talking waiting in line and as I'm getting to the front of the line I'm like oh no I normally order a decav mocha carmel

cookie crumble sugar bomb. And so I look at the barista and I wait a second and I just go, cappuccino. You know, nothing else. And the barista's like, what kind of milk? I'm like, don't say oat milk. Whole milk. And he's like, no sweetener.

And I'm like, no, of course not. And then I look over a yawn and he just like puts his hands out and goes, thank you. And I'm like, oh, of course, dude. You know, it's my Italian roots. Meanwhile, I'm like, I would have ordered those sugaryest thing in the world if you weren't standing right next to me, Yon. How am I going to choke this down?

No, it ended up being fine. But it was very epic and awesome and surreal. And the feeling I had when I was riding with him was very so much a feeling I have when I'm riding or running with you guys, which is, wow, this makes it worth the training. More so than having a good race, when I can do a workout with you guys and not a workout for you guys. But when we can do an activity together, that's when I feel like all the hard work I put into training. This is worth it. this makes it feel special.

And being able to right at the front of the group, climbing with Yon and being able to chat with him, I've had the same thought of, this is what makes the training fun. To be able to do these cool things with interesting people and somewhat keep up, that felt really fun. Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point.

I like that. I've had that Nate Youngs, who I run with his set of similar thing. He loves just maintaining enough fitness that if somebody calls to do a cool thing, he can do it, you know, without hesitation. And that's like a great, I guess, goal for life. Training for tomorrow.

Heck yeah. Wow. Epic. Okay. Well, let's get to some questions here. We're going to start with some bike tech with Eric. Bike tech with Eric. Yeah, if you're new here, this is a disproportionate amount of news relative to questions, relative

to usual. But when we got good stuff to talk about, we roll with it. And when people, celebrities call them the podcast. We definitely let them, we bring them on. So let's have to come questions. But we also really want to get people that are accepted to the TTL team to go sign up and get all their gear. Yes. Yep.

When is that closed? The 16th? Actually, is that the date? I have no idea. We should close it after next week's podcast. We can do another reminder. Yeah. You know, I will be sending out emails.

And if you were accepted under the team, you, have an email at least, actually at least two emails and it'll tell you when the closing date is and everything. And also, like we said, hit us up in the app. We're answering questions. I've been spending all day on there. So just get those orders in. That's how you are officially on the team is by completing one of those two packages. So, dope. Tweet. Okay. This is from Chaz. Hey, gang. This probably falls under Bike Tech with Eric as someone that is still relatively new to Triath. and bike tech, where does one even start to learn all of the terms and numbers? It often feels incredibly overwhelming to hear all of these tire size numbers, gear numbers, et cetera.

Are there any good resources you recommend for learning the basics and learning what matters and what doesn't? Chas? Wow. I mean, I feel like this is a thing that is, this is a knowledge base that is built over several gears. This is not going to be something that you can pick up. and in one month of concentrated reading. I don't, there probably is some sort of like bike, you know, mechanics for dummies or something like that that might have a good glossary or some intro. And I'm sure you could do some Googling and find some good stuff.

But I think the way that I've learned all this is just by working in a bike shop and obsessing over what I wanted to purchase for myself and just kind of ongoing learning, really. and paying attention. Nick, have you done any research to find out if there are some good resources? Yeah, there are some, like, REI has some resources for that, and even there's like a bike tech 101 stuff that goes over some of those things. But I think in general, the way I learned how to work on bikes, as someone who never worked on a bike shop,

and now does most of the work myself, is just, uh-oh, my bike has a problem right now. Let me learn how to fix it. And each time, like you said, you gain a little more. more knowledge and understanding and oftentimes the first time you do the job, you screw it up 10 times, but then you really learn how to do it. Just like I had with the bleeding the brakes on both my bikes, I feel pretty confident about doing it now because I screwed it up so many times. And I think there's really good resources on YouTube by Park Tool. They do, their videos are really well done. And buying those tools is not that expensive. I think it's worth it. It's definitely

a money saver in the long run if you can figure out how to work on your bike. Yeah. I mean, there's a couple of phases there of like learning about the bike and then actually working on the bike. Another thing, like if you ride with people, like, don't be afraid to ask questions. Somebody that always sticks out in my mind is like the perfect archetype of someone who learned quickly is Matt McElroy. He came to train with us in Poway. And that guy was just like nonstop.

Dude, I'm so stupid with bike things. Like, what kind of saddle is that? Why did you pick that saddle? how tight are your bolts on there? Like, how did you decide that? What size tires are those? What tires are cool? Is this bike kit cool that I'm wearing right now?

Shoot, darn. Okay, tell me what cool bike is kid is cool. And like, completely losing the ego and feeling like I need to know everything as soon as like anybody talks to me and just like guys like Nick and I, like we love sharing knowledge. So don't be afraid to ask questions, I guess. Eric, that's just great life advice, what you just said about all things. Like let go of the ego and be curious. Yeah. Let people talk about, you know, things that they know about

that you don't know about and learn things. Love it. Love it. Okay, let's get on to real questions here. You can submit your questions to the pod, which I've been great lately once again at that triathlonlife.com slash podcast. You can also become a podcast supporter there.

Last week, our podcast supporters got a fun little video of us getting into the weeds about some stuff, which I thought was pretty entertaining. But this week, We're going to start with a question from Sam. Hello, TTR. Nick continued congrats on Iron Man in Wisconsin. Thank you so much, Sam.

I almost forgot about that, so I appreciate you bringing it up. Real question for Paula and Eric. When you have a lead bike with you, do they cheer you on, motivate you, give you anxiety by always being there? What interactions have you had with them good and bad? Thanks, Sam. And what Sam is referring to here is if you're in first, second or third place, whether you're a pro or an amateur, they give you a cycle.

to clear the way for you? Is that what the point is? What is the point of that person? We're talking about on the run. Yes, on the run. Yeah, there's no one riding in front of you on the bike. Yeah, I think they're there to, like basically when I passed every mile marker, they radioed into the finish line where I was so that they could keep track.

They do sort of clear the way a little bit if it's a two-lap course for you. Like they'll just say, like, they'll bring their bell or get people to move over. But I think for the most part, they're told not to say much. They're always super nice. And like when they peel off 200 meters for the finish, I always thank them for like being there with me for the race. Usually they're super nice and they're super like fans of the sport that are excited to do this job. But yeah, they, I haven't had an experience where they've said that much to me. Sometimes I'll ask, like, can you see anyone behind us?

the guy in Augusta was like I can't see anyone I still can't see anyone I still can't see anyone That was my experience in Santa Cruz I remember he's like you're fine He's like dude you're flying No one's catching you don't worry I was like the guys behind me are fast

Just look Does look please Oh my gosh that's so funny When I race Zuma recently I didn't know what place I was in And I asked the bike Do you know what position I'm in And he looked at me and then turned around

And said nothing And I was freaking leading the race I didn't even know. I thought I was in like fourth. Wow. Like, why are you here if I'm not doing well? I think they're maybe told not to say anything. Because they're not there to give you a competitive advantage.

Right, right, right, right. So what do you want from them? What would you like from them? Splits, encouragement, water. Gummy bears. Yeah, if we could make a list. But I see their primary function is just a beatbox. Keep people out of the way.

And I don't know, make sure you don't cut the course. I mean, I don't really know what they're there for. besides to help clear the way. I think I've heard them yell at spectators before. Is that possible? To clear the way. Yeah. Yeah, that kind of thing.

They're just like, you know, making sure you're taking care of. Yeah, when you're leading their race, oftentimes, nobody's, like, it's unexpected. Yeah. You know, like, people aren't quite set up yet or whatever, so it's a good reminder. Yeah. Cool. Okay. Next question here is from Jack.

This is kind of, it's not quite bike tech, but it's bike tech adjacent. Hey, guys, I have a random question about handlebars. Why are some handlebars so flared out on the drops? Is there an arrow advantage gain? Or is it a comfort thing? Actually, the opposite of that. It's very not an arrow advantage gain. On arrow, but comfy.

Yeah. But do we see this on all kinds of bike, or there are specific bikes that are more likely to have those flare drops? It's mostly a gravel bike thing. I mean, like extreme flare is definitely a gravel bike thing. Paul and I have a slight flare on our road bikes, And that is just ergonomic. It feels good.

It's slightly less arrow, but it feels real good. Because then you have a wider base when you're in the... More control. Yeah, and it's just like a more natural position for your shoulders to be in with that angle. Yeah. And then you can kind of tilt your brakes levers in a bit. So it's like those are tight and the bottom's flared out. I like the look of it.

Yeah, it's cool. But yeah, it's not really faster. It's just more comfortable. Nick, have you seen the Instagram pictures of this, like, Belgian dude who won, like, some bike race and his handlebars are seriously, like, 20 millimeters wide? No, and it's, and no, but I have seen bikes like this. Isn't that, what kind of race was it? I thought UCI said no more. I don't know what kind, I mean, it looked like a classic.

Isn't there a minimum width now? There is no. Which was controversial for women. because with smaller shoulders, you want a narrower bar, and they were limiting that. And women aren't doing it for a narrow advantage. They're doing it because that's literally the size that fits them.

Yeah. There's guys in L.A. right now who are like the really fast guys who have these super narrow bars and the hoods are turned in, and it looks kind of crazy. Yeah. I mean, I don't like this extreme shit. It's like having a normal width bar.

Ian Boswell and I ran to, other day and we had like a 30 minute conversation around that. Like, why can't we just, yeah, make a bunch of rules of things that are not cool to keep sports cool so that kids still want to do them. Right. Like no kid is going to stop. We need new people. Yeah.

What these like freaking that Yombo-Vizma helmet. Like no kid is putting down a basketball and getting on a bicycle. If he's seen his Jonas Vinkigo. Yeah. Yeah, dude. The mushroom kingdom helmet. Yeah. For the good of the sport, no.

Yes, yes. Well said. Okay, next question here is from the entire Grant family. Wow, team effort. All right. What an honor. Hi, Paula, Eric, Nick, and Flynn. These days, our tiny training team consists of myself, my three young boys, and our two hound dogs. Our best weekends as a family are spent crushing gravel and finding new places to splash. Do you have any go-to resources or tips on how to assess things like trail safety, accessibility, and level of difficulty? Thanks for building this amazing community. in the spirit of looking for things where you can find them. The Grant family. Wow. That's awesome. From New Jersey. Adopt me. Yeah. So I have ways that I do this.

I'm curious what you guys do if you even think about this. I have quite a flow chart myriad of processes that I go through when I'm in any place. I use Strava Heat Maps. I'll sometimes use Strava Heat Maps. version. How many people have ridden this thing, you know, like just in the last week. That's helpful when snow is thawing. And then sometimes you can go and like drill down on a specific segment and see like how long did that segment take somebody? Is it outrageously long relative to the distance? And then I also have Trail Forks Pro on my phone, which has trail running kind of like analysis

or ratings on trails as well as mountain bike, OHV, etc. And that's a good way. way to, like, people will upload pictures there sometimes, the trails have ratings on there, and you can get a really good feel for, like, difficulty levels. Yeah, I do the same thing. I'll add one thing to that. I think the weekly heat maps are great because a lot of stuff is closed around here because of the fires, and the weekly heat maps are really good way to know if they're being used to that. The one thing I do that helps, I think, in addition to this, it's always through Strava is if you make a root, Strava will then populate the route when you're done with photos

that have been taken along that route recently. And that can help, you know, if there's snow or not, and I'll go even a step further sometimes and go into segments on that, click on people's activities and see if they wrote anything. Like, you know, like bridge out here, so had to walk across or something like that. That's really extra.

But when I'm in a brand new place and I can't risk, you know, getting stuck out there, I'll even go to that length sometimes. See, like, I think there's a fine balance here and for each person where you still have a little bit of wonder left as you begin. When I ride with Paula, zero wonder is the amount of wonder that is acceptable. And when I ride by myself, it's, it's, you know, like 10, 20% more risk I'm willing to take on. But yeah, I've done the same thing like with Trail Forks and with like the Strava route go along and like,

is this a trail or a rocky trail or a crushed gravel or what is it? because I need to know what exactly what this trail surface is. Yeah, yeah, nice. Okay, great. Next question here is from Aaron, and that's a place that I'm not going to try to pronounce, Germany.

Hey, TTR crew, this question is for Paula. My wonderful husband gifted me a swim paddle. Up until now, I've been just using them for drills. What is a good workout using paddles? Looking for something in the 2000s at 2,500 meter range. Thanks for being my Thursday workout motivation every week. And congrats Nick on Ironman, Wisconsin. And thank you. I almost forgot it from five minutes ago.

Paula, what do you think? Why is this a question for me? Eric's the swim run paddle master. Yeah, but you're the swim sets with Paula. Yeah. I mean, when I wear paddles, usually it's like an aerobic long set. So today I had 1,000 meter repeats with paddles. Oh, rough.

I love that set. But I do think that using paddles, it's like I don't do a lot of jails. gym work and strength work like out of the water. And I think using paddles is actually a really good way to build strength doing the sports specific activity. And it does teach you to like catch the water properly, finish your stroke. I think it lowers your heart rate to wear a pole boy with paddles so you can like focus a little bit more on your technique. There's a bunch of different shapes of paddles you can use that have different purposes. So, I don't know, in terms of a set that's 2,000 or 2,500,

usually I go super simple, like 2,100s on 10 seconds rest. Or I like doing 150s. We've talked about this before. We sometimes will do like 100 with the right paddle, 100 with the left paddle, 100 with both paddles, 100 with no paddles, 100 with right, you know. Yeah, mixing it up like that's kind of fun. you get the feedback instantly of like what it should feel like to have a paddle, then take it off and then try to keep that same stroke with no paddle.

Just a lot of like tactile feedback. I think it might be interesting for people like what is your mindset when swimming with paddles? Is it like I want to try to get my heart rate into the same zone as when I'm swimming normally? So that's going to be like feeling like really forceful on the water. Or are you just letting your turnover slow down, not thinking about it? I think about this a lot. I almost always swim with paddles with a pull buoy.

And do you think that is, do you think I'm selling myself short by doing that? That's interesting. Most people do that. But I do also think that just swimming with no pole boy and paddles is a good tool. Because the pole boy is almost a crotch. It takes your heart rate so much lower. but if you just do a set with paddles only, you're still swimming. So your heart rate's still high.

You're still working really hard. You might be going a little bit faster because you have that increased surface area. But it is also a good strength builder. So sometimes I'll do that. Like a bunch of 300s, one with a pole boy, one with no pull boy. One with a pull boy. Yeah. What do you do with your kick when you're swimming with no pull boy?

Same kick as I do when I normal swim. Okay. For me it feels very strange and I struggle so hard to time my kick when I'm swimming with paddles just because my turnover slowed down a little bit but my legs can kick at normal speed

and it messes with my brain a little bit. So a lot of times I mean I mostly just end up going to a two-beat kick whereas normally I would have this like six-beat two-beak hybrid BS when I'm swimming without paddles. Wow. I'm actually completely interested in this stuff just because I think a lot while I swim.

Well, I also think part of swimming is just being engaged and you take your pole boy out and you're swimming with paddles and it feels weird and you don't know what you do with her kick. That's all, like, good, I think. Yeah, nice. Swimming is so boring. That's so true. So if you can, like, have this little epiphany while you're swimming,

that's cool. Try different things. Yeah. Get a different pair of paddles. Try wearing one flipper. Try different things we can feel them. Nice. But good luck with your paddle journey.

It'll make you faster. Okay, next question is from Hannah. Hey, TTL, fam. I recently raced my first 70.3 at Iron Man, Wisconsin. Not sure if you've heard of it. All right, this bit, this needs to end. This is too much. I was very surprised at the road quality during the bike.

I found my body constantly bracing against expansion cracks and bumps. I was so tense and destroyed by the end of the ride. I just wanted to get off the bike and onto solid ground. My question is, do you all deal with road quality? Nick, not sure if you've ever raced in Madison, but if so, is this normal? Is there a way to prepare? I mostly ride bike paths or Zwift for training, and if a road was as bad as it was in Wisconsin, I wouldn't ride there. Am I just a fair weather cyclist? Thanks, Hannah. How bad was it? Hannah, I hope you applied to be on the TTL team

because we need your energy. We like your sense of humor. I like your style. I didn't think the road quality was bad at all. Really? Yeah, and I think the answer to this question is, are you riding 28s? Are you riding hookless? Because I bet you're running intertubes and you're like 90 PSI on clinchers. That was my thought too. Yeah, yeah.

I didn't find it to be bad at all. I felt great. As you guys remember, I got off the bike feeling like I could have kept riding. Yeah. The other thing that I think about with this sometimes, just, I mean, given Paul and relative, my perception of our experiences when we're riding on rough roads is that Paula finds roads rougher than I do. And I'm curious if just lighter riders get more bump, no matter what, PSI, like, your capabilities you have to even ride just because you're just going to get bounced

more. Maybe, yeah. Well, Hannah, either way, what you can do, and I'm sure Eric would give you the safe advice, is go onto the Silco website. Silka has a tire pressure calculator that you can put in, regardless of what kind of setup you have, you just have to put in all the stuff. And you might find that you're running way too high for PSI. And that will help a lot as is. If your PSI starts with a 9 and 8 or a 7, it's too high. If you're running, hookless and tubeless and, yes. Wow, you guys, that was a great answer. I was going to be like, yeah, it sucks. You just have to not tense up. relax into it.

Easier set than done. But the tire pressure thing is a real thing. We're just hoping we can gear our way out of this. You know what I just remembered? They have a completely different course than we did for the full. 70.3 has a completely different course. So it may have been really rough. It's perfectly possible that it was, okay, sorry, so dumb.

Now it's coming back. I remember all the 70.3 athletes complaining about the road quality. So it must legit be bad. I can't believe that it's a different course and that they put it on such bad roads. That's kind of insane. Wow.

Okay, so let's, I mean, I think our PSI advice is still great. Yes, recommendations are the same. But now what if your PSI is appropriate and you still feel this? Is there something that you can do? I think this now is Paul, as answer of the mind of a matter, relax into it, et cetera. Yeah.

I also, for some reason, which is insane, feel like when I'm in my TT bars, the bumps don't bug me as much. That's crazy. Because I feel like when I'm on my drops or on my road bike, it like radiates through my entire arm. I don't know. Maybe it's the padding on my TT bars. Something about it makes it less jarring than if I'm sitting.

up. I want to give some unsolicited advice. I just put the Super Kaz bar tape on my new bars on my road bike and oh my gosh, does it feel so good. This is like the one specialized cells. I really, really like it. I think this is what Paula has on our road bike right now. Oh yeah? Okay. Yeah. It's cushy and beautiful and absorbs vibration. I really like it. But this could potentially confirm my hypothesis about the weight thing. And if there's more weight on your butt and less weight your arms. Maybe your arms are getting bounced a little more violently versus just like your weight is distributed

more evenly on a TT bike. I don't know. I'm not a physicist. I'm just thinking like when you're in the arrow bars you have one fewer fulcrum to absorb vibration. That's why it seems like it feels better. It should be worse. That's true. It should be worse. I don't know what's up with that. Maybe I'm just like thinking about other things more. Yeah. I mean if it, that's awesome. If that's the case, that's great

because that's the bike you race on. But I would say, like, general advice is don't go seek out rough roads to practice. Like, it's just miserable. And it's not going to make you better at it necessarily. I think if you have a course that's super rough like that, it's okay to take lines that maybe aren't completely far to the right. If you're trying to avoid some debris or some potholes or whatever, if I'm riding on rough roads in a race, I'll kind of be all over the place trying to find the smoothest line. So if it allows for that. I think that's totally a legit thing to do.

Great. Okay, and last question here, this is going to be a fun one, because we've been just having fun this whole time. Trust me. Hey, everyone, love the pod. This question is for Flynn. What's your favorite workout on post-workout snack? Trail run with mum and dad

or an open water swim with a tennis ball or stick. I'm more into explosive short sprints and love a slice of banana or some pizza crust when we get home. Hope your recovery is going well. Django the pug from Switzerland. P.S. my mom hates it when I wake her up at 5 a.m. to go see what dad is eating in the kitchen before his morning workout,

but it's worth it. He always shares some of his breakfast, smiley face. Django. We should have gotten a pug named Jingo. Eric wanted a pug, not a pointer. Here we are. He might have been on to something. Towers are not tearing their ACLs, I'll tell you that.

No, they're breathing heavy, and you can hear them from a mile away. Yeah. Flynn does that too, though, because Eric gets up before me and he goes out with Eric. Not because Eric gives him any food. Eric was never fed Flynn table food. No. I don't know. I don't think dogs should snack.

He doesn't need a snack. He's waiting till dinner. But I do give him a little bit of scraps. I see. I see. He doesn't need it, but of course you spoil him anyways, what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's so funny when dogs, like, know the sound of what you're doing.

Like I like to have an apple cut up before bed And he could be in the deepest of slumbers in the bedroom And he'll hear me slicing the apple And he'll like wake up Yeah yeah yeah Yeah And then we share it together It's a nice little routine

I mean I think giving dogs snacks Is just as much pleasurable for the owner as the dog Unless you're Eric And he hates it No I just don't like dogs to beg and now you have a dog that's like getting tripped on in the kitchen constantly and staring at you with their face in your lap as you're trying to eat dinner.

Yeah, true. It just makes it difficult to give them to someone else to watch. Just like good, well-behaved dogs just are like easier to hand off to people and have them in public. Yeah, that's it. That's totally true. Flynn's activity of choice is definitely fetch, especially if there's water involved. Not anymore. But I think, yeah, with this ACL issue he's had on the left side and we don't want it to

repeat on the right. We're going to ease off the land fetch. Aquafetch only. Aquafetch. He can still run in the woods, but it's the abrupt stopping that I think is really risky for his knees. So, yeah, it's kind of sad. Too bad because he loves it so much. Well, it's a bummer because if you could just tell him like, dude, we can do landfetch. Just turn it down one notch and you'd be fine. You don't have to go out at an 11 every single time. Stop off. If we dial it back to 10 out of 10, we'd be okay. Yeah. Maybe I'll keep some of these drugs that he's been on and...

Dr. Relax. Dr. He's like tripping over himself. Yeah, it's funny. No, it's been, it's been tricky because it's, yeah, we can't tell him that he's hurt and he doesn't know he's hurt anymore because he feels fine. But we've got to still keep him from re-injuring or messing up to surgery for a few more weeks. A little fun advice for a dog treat if any of your Trader Joe's people, they have like

bully sticks at Trader Joe's that are so cheap compared to what they are at pet stores. So I've been giving them those for a little bit of mind stimulation and as a little treat. Get a pack of three for like $3.99 or something. We were going to skip this week because we were so busy. We couldn't even find an hour to talk to each other. But we made it work late. Eric's leaving tomorrow for his race. You guys will be together.

So I'll be together. I can't. No, we're going to get sued if we sing it. Even if we sing it? Technically, yes, but no one's going to find out. Poorly? Yeah, first of all, speak for yourself. Nick sings so well that it would get flagged.

All right, okay, okay, that's true. Also, on our adventure crew is going to be Heather and Wadi. They're staying with us down there, so it's going to be, holy shit, it's going to be a lot of fun. Polly, you can still come. Nope. My mom's coming. My mom's flying in in 30 minutes. Nope. No, I would have loved to come. I love crewing ultra races.

Yeah, we had a good time at Black Canyons, right, Paula? Following Eric around? Yeah, it's my, like, seriously, if Eric gets good at trail running and gets sponsored, I'm retiring. Okay, great. That's my real goal here. That's our golden ticket. Close your ears, all of Paula's sponsors. I would be totally fine with that, but, you know, we'll see. We'll see what happens. Eric, if you get top 10, I don't know how we're going to celebrate, but we need to really celebrate. I got some ideas. He's getting top 10.

Also, I was just kidding because I'm going to Kona next year, so please don't drop me any sponsors. I don't know if you guys have noticed yet, but Paula oscillates between extremes pretty easily. She's not going to retire if Eric gets sponsored for trail running. Unfortunately, we're getting old at the same age, so. We're not getting old. Stop saying that. It's a mindset. We just talked to Jackie.

She's like five years older than me. We're aging at the same rate. Yeah, it's true. We can't, yeah, you know. Can't deny that we're all getting old. Yeah. Yeah. We got a couple amazing years ahead of us still.

A couple? A couple. Well, I, you know, I don't know why this guy pops into my head, but I do remember Lance Armstrong saying at one point in time, you're like, I could keep racing bikes as long as I want to keep putting my body through this, you know. And I think to a certain extent that's it. As long as you're willing to keep waking up and going that hard,

like you do have an increasing list of things to deal with is like you're getting a little bit creaky in the joints. But it's like however long you want to keep waking up and grinding that hard every day. Yeah, I don't know if Lance Armstrong is like the perfect model of longevity in this sport given he was doing other things. Whatever do you mean? But I agree with the principle, with the whole general concept.

Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah. So we'll see. We're not headed out any time seeing folks. So thanks for listening. And we'll see you next week. Adios. Ciao.