That Triathlon Life Podcast - Favorite and least favorite triathlon workouts, following structured workouts outdoors, and more!

Episode Date: July 11, 2024

This week, we started with some triathlon Rapid Fire talking about favorite and least favorite swim bike run workouts, announced a partnership with Tailwind Nutrition, and then we moved on to your questions! We talked about:Sneakers on clipless pedalsDo you need to follow structured workouts if you're riding outdoors?Sport preference for an hour recordHow to figure out if you're a better 70.3 or full distance athleteHow much back-to-back racing is too much?How to do a course recon in XterraMid-race candy choiceMantras and positive self-talk preferences.Thank you to our beloved podcast supporters! To become a podcast supporter, or to submit your own questions for the podcast, head over to Thattriathlonlife.com/podcastFor podcast supporters: here is a link to the Tailwind Nutrition High Carb Fuel beta test. Remember to use your TTL supporter email when you sign up.High Carb Fuel

Hello, everyone. Welcome to That Triathlon Life podcast. I'm Paula Finley. I'm Erica Lagerstrom. I'm Nick Goldston. And we are coming to you today for our 126th podcast, which is insane. We, Eric and I are both professional triathletes. Nick is a professional musician. Every week we come to you with either a race report or a little bit of what's going on in our lives and in the triathlon world. Most of all, we answer your questions that you send in every week that I go through. If you have an urge to send in a question of any sort, please do it. But we still have enough to make a jam-packed episode, and we are excited to be here. How hot on a scale from one to a hundred is it there right now? Right, out of 100, aren't we? So it's hovering around 100 here in Bend, but it's fine. I mean, we just have to be creative with doing our training earlier than we like.

and then in the afternoon we just kind of sit in the house and moderately hot in the house. So you don't have air conditioning. It's definitely a thing to think about. Like how are we going to plan out? What should we do first? When are we going to get to the pool? When do we think the pool is going to be the least busy?

And so we can actually swim but cool off in the middle of the day. You know, it's weird like the whole thing that we get to plan around. Is there a situation where it's so hot out and the pool is kind of warm that the pool does not cool you off? No. The new development with our pool, the bubble, the seasonal bubble that they take down in the summer and put up in the winter to keep the pool like warmish is so old that they didn't take the top off this year. They just took the sides off of the bubble. Oh, right. You tell me, because they were afraid they'd never get it back on, right?

Yeah. I mean, initially everybody was all super angry and there was like a petition to rip down the bubble and, you know, the whole thing. But the plus is that we don't have to wear sunscreen. The pool is pretty cold. You're not worried about getting skin cancer. Less people at the pool generally, I think it's a win-win. I wouldn't say less people are at the pool, but it's fully a better situation for us because you still get the open-air feel and it's an outdoor pool and you get sun from the side,

but the entire pool is covered with shade, so you're not frying your back. Yeah. Which is actually great for my wedding dress because I'm not getting like swimsuit tan lines. Oh, right. That we're going to have to like cover up with like fake tanner or something. So, yeah, I'm just ghost white everywhere. Perfect. As long as you're even.

And normally you guys swim in the mornings, but I feel like mornings are the only time you can run or bike now. So are you guys swimming even earlier? What are you doing with that? No, we've just kind of, for now anyway, we're experimenting with swimming around like 11 o'clock or one, kind of in that zone. And then we're just getting up and getting out at the crack of 8 a.m. To get ahead of the heat. Is it weird? I always find it strange when I'm, if I'm used to whatever, on Monday, running in the afternoon every Monday, if I have to change that up, it takes, it kind of takes some mental energy to do that. Do you feel the same way, like swimming not being your first activity of the day? Does that feel weird or does it all move around fluidly for you? I feel like it's pretty fluid for me. I think Paula likes to swim in the morning. No, I don't mind. I'm very flexible. The one thing, the one struggle with this actually is just like with our aging body since we've been doing triathons.

2001, starting with the swim definitely loosens up things and joints and it's like the first kilometer of running if we have to do the run first is always like running like running on glass and you kind of avoid that when you start with a swim. So that's the only struggle I think. What about swimming after you've done a hard effort? Does that feel any different or do you not notice it? I haven't been doing a lot of hard efforts lately. Normally that'll like, if a If we swim after running fast, I usually get toe cramps and stuff, but that's about it. Typically, we both are like fairly confident in our swim abilities. So if we're going to put an emphasis on which workout we're going to feel the best for versus not feel good for,

kind of want to feel better for biking or running. And then I don't know, I'm less stressed about the swim going perfectly every single time. Right. And speaking of biking, Paula, you on FaceTime this morning showed me a new exciting development. I don't know. Are we allowed to talk about it? This is just Q&A by Nick, this whole intro Well, I'm curious and I was out of service all weekend

So we're using this time to catch up That's true, we haven't really talked to you at all Yeah, I got an SL8 frame About a million years ago now But Eric finally had the time to build it It's been like three weeks But the frame is so cool It's like the same color scheme

That some of the ITU athletes got So it's not like Brand new, never seen to the world But I think the mountain bike team For specializing team colors. Yeah, it's like a very neony turquoise with yellow writing and a pink fork. It's kind of wild, but it's so cool and it's the new tarmac, so the SL8. And it rides, I just did a little like 12K ride on it just to feel it. And it's very snappy, very responsive. But the biggest

difference for me is the new Schram red components that are on it. The ergonomics of like the hand grips and the responsiveness of just having new components. components on there was insane. Like, I was riding it thinking, riding a new bike with new components must be, like, 20 watts faster. Because you don't got any, like, I know, I'm not right, but that's the feeling I got.

Like, all these Tour de France riders and pro tour team riders who get, like, a fresh, clean bike on every stage, you feel the difference versus when you're going and riding your greasy-ass bike that's, like, coated in wax chain that you've rewaxed. I don't know. It just feels different. Right, right, right, right. And also the sham red, the new stuff has like blips on different parts of the handlebars.

So you don't have to push the paddles. It's like there's a little blip on the hoods. There's a blip on the base bar or the drops. So no matter where you're sprinting from. Under the tops, too. Even if you're climbing on the tops, you can change it. Yeah. Yeah.

So the blips are all over and you can shift it depending on where you're holding onto the bar, which is crazy as well. So huge thank you to special. Shram Zip, Eric, getting my tarmac ready, and it makes me want to do road racing. Mission accomplished. Which I don't know if I'm going to do that, but there is a crit in bend every Wednesday,

so maybe I'll jump into that this week and test it out and hope I don't crash. Eric, how hard is it to set this new red system up? Oh, it's no harder than the old stuff. It's actually fantastic. I've gotten the whole breakbleed system dialed. That was the one thing. Like, is bleeding SRAM breaks exactly the way that they recommend.

It's pretty critical to make sure that they just stay and, you know, adjusted properly for a long period of time. And then to do the front derailer, they got this cool little plastic piece that you put on your chain ring. And you spin that around and then you, like, set the derailer on that. And it just is basically in the perfect position to begin with it. Oh, so you don't have to measure, like, has to be two millimeters at the extreme distance from the chain or whatever. It's just like this spacer thing that, like, sits on the, on the, chain ring and then your draylor sits on top of that and then you just tighten it down in that position and it's like Gucci.

Oh, they have the same thing for mountain bikes, Saram, on the rear derailer with how much, forget what it is, like the B limit screw or something where... Like depending on how big your cassette is and you actually don't even have to worry about that at all with any transmission stuff. You just put it in the cog that is designed to like have the chain in there and then you like loosen the rear derailer, tighten the rear derailer, tighten the through axle, boom. This is like magically perfect. These are the kind of technological advances that we love.

Yeah. And it looks good. And it's lightweight. Companies rad. Win, win, win, win. Can't say enough good things. I think Shamanos group said that they came out with last was in like 2012. So that's what I mean now. Okay. Wow. Catch up, Shimato. Also, if anyone wants to buy my old tarmac, we're going to auction that off. Auction. We're going to live auction on next week's podcast. We're going to live auction it. This is kind of wild. Maybe we'll take this out of the podcast. but if anyone is any interest in living in Bend and watching Flynn for like a month in September will potentially be gone for like four weeks.

Is that crazy to put that on the podcast? You're going to have a tidal wave of people that is going to be down for that, in my opinion. An outrageous amount of people are going to be into that idea. Okay, well, we need someone, so I'll just vet them. What do you think, right? Better get your Google form ready. I was just thinking that. Maybe don't email.

me at. I'll make a Google form and I'll put it up next week for potential applications. You can use our kicker treadmill. You can use our everything. And you have to watch our dog, which is the, which is the catch. He needs minimum two activities per day. So you have to have almost no job. And you can't be a robber because you need it on our bikes to be stolen. So basically, I think we're looking for a professional triathlete. Most importantly, you cannot be a robber. Robber is such a funny term. I know.

Isn't that what it is, though, when you steal stuff? Yeah, I mean, like, I don't think any adult calls them robbers. It's like out of a children's cartoon. Okay, okay. Robbers. Okay, well, wonderful. We'll live back to that next week. Great.

Is it okay if we go on to some rapid fire here? Let's do the rapid fire, and then we got a big announcement. Let's do it. Okay, so I don't know how rapid this is, but it seems like the trend here with the rapid fires is that they're never that rapid. But we're going to do least favorite swim set and most favorite swim set. Most favorite swim set would be something that's like 250s fast or like a 25 fast and a 25 easy and then like a 300 cruised, like rounds of that. I like a little activation and then just like, you know, stretch it out is what I was going for. Okay.

And least favorite? Least favorite. I don't know. 20 by 100 best average with like five seconds rest. That's just mentally really hard to get up for. Paula? Yeah, I would agree with Eric. And Paulo has us do a lot of this where you're kind of alternating between solid and steady.

So you'll do like 100 solid, 200 steady a bunch of times around. Because when you go really hard for a 50 or 100, and then you switch back to going more like controlled race pace, it makes the controlled race pace feel a little easier. It's crazy. So you're kind of like bouncing back and forth between effort levels. I think this might also just make it more approachable since we're at like kind of half altitude. And sometimes just doing straight up 20 times 100 or 10 times 200.

Like that catches up really fast. Yeah. And okay. Same thing. Leaves favorite and favorite bike workout. Man, I really been digging the, like power hour type thing where it's like 30 seconds on 30 seconds off or like 15 seconds on 40 20 seconds on 40 seconds off I like that I do that for like eight minutes and I've held like

380 watts or something and if I were to just go try to do eight minutes at that power it's nuts it's also somehow like I do it and I am in the moment like I need to get off my bike as quickly as possible this is torture but then immediately after I'm like that was that was kind of cool Yeah, right. It's weird. Hectic. Least favorite would be like four times 20 minutes. That's my least favorite.

On the T-T bike. That is horrible. Up 1% grade. Who likes that? No one likes that, right? I don't know. Well, unless maybe if you're doing an Iron Man and you're holding Iron Man wads, it's not that bad. Yeah.

We've never done an Iron Man, so. From what I hear, for women, you've got to hold like 200 watts for an Iron Man. That's not that hard. Says the person who's never done it. Yeah, says the person who's never done it. You get 200 watts for four and a half hour. Yeah, hour four and a half starts to hit. Yeah.

It's not even that. It's halfway into the run when you're like, ooh, those 200 watts maybe were a bit much. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. My favorite bike workout is doing like hill repeats on the tarmac. How many minutes, though? Like two minutes, 10 minutes, 30 minutes?

Oh, like three to eight. I don't know. Yeah. But climbing. And then my least favorite is... Long rides. Oh, just like no real power goals. Just go out and kind of spin.

Just go, like, be on your bike for a while. Terrible. Who would like that? I guess, yeah, yeah. It's funny because those are probably a lot of people's favorite kind of rides, me and myself included. But you, Paula, you don't look forward to stopping, like you don't stop for coffee.

It's not like an adventure day, right? You go out and you actually like kind of, I don't know, know how to put it, but you like do your job. And so it's just a lot of time doing that. Yeah, I guess. That's true. My five-hour rides are five hours, not eight hours. Yeah. My five-hour rides are eight hours. That's the difference. There's a lot of joking and cookie eating in the middle. I don't know about running. I like, uh... Number one is tempo run. Rick loves temper runs. Love tempo runs and long runs. What do you not like?

I don't know. Yeah, no kind of running workout is that awful. I mean, they're all hard, but nothing sounds terrible to me. I think my favorite is we've been doing this thing with Paula, where it's one minute, kind of similar to that swim workout, one minute solid, three minutes steady, and it makes the steady feel easy. So I'll do like a minute at 3.30 per K, three minutes at 4 minutes per K, and the 4 minutes per K feels like just kind of floating along when you contrast it to the 330. And I'll do that 12 times. So you're getting like a, a, a 50-minute block of pretty quick running, but only in chunks of a minute, which is kind of interesting.

Do you guys ever have a due X amount of minutes at maximum capacity? No. Like a race? That's like a 5K race. Every like six-ish weeks, my training plan has me do like 30 minutes as hard as I can go as like a test kind of thing. Like a time trial. Yeah.

No, I think we'd get injured if we did that. Yeah, and in fact, I just never do it. I can say it's the injury, but the truth is I just hate the idea of it. My training plan says, and I do. Something else. I think we just need to like, you know, rethrow it out there that if you have a fun game like that, that's way more fun than what Nick just came up with, send that in. We love playing your games.

Rapid fire. We got Spelling Bee. This or that. Bike Tech with Eric is kind of, it's not really. It's not so much a game. Or you can make up a new game and Nick will make up a jingle for it. Yeah. That's true. We should throw out a prize

for this. If you make up a new game and we use it on the podcast, you just win a bottle. No, you win a shred till bed poster. Ooh, we got a... Shit. Well, that's happening. Shrentil bed two is coming out. And we got a couple extras. Yeah, so I was numbering all the shred till bed posters

today. Like, we thought we had 150. So I was like one out of of 150. Two out of 150. I did that on all 150, and we had nine extra. So great for gifts or giveaways or if one gets lost in the mail, which definitely happened with the last round, although they were all recovered. So I think if anyone sends in a viable fun game, and only send it if you think you might win the poster. You know what I mean? Quality games only. A plus games. Bangers only. I love this poster thing.

So in art, when you do like a printmaker makes, my dad is a printmaker, when you print an addition, they're numbered like one through 20, right? But then there are extras that are not in that one through 20 that will be like the printer's proof or the artist's proof. There's extra versions of it that are very exclusive that are really cool if you can get your hands on them. That's what this will be for, for example, the supporter or whoever comes up with a game. It's like an elite exclusive version of the shred till bed poster. And what I love about the Shredchel bed posters, which will also release with T-shirts like we did last time, but this is a different color scheme.

It's the one that you have, Nick, the kind of turquoisey gold. But what's cool about it is we got a printer, a different printer this time to make them. And they're not all 100% perfect, like if you printed them off of a computer. Because he did it like with paint and stuff. Oh, that's awesome. A couple of them, you can see like a little fingerprint mark.

And I'm like, I don't know if someone would get this and think of it as defective or think of it like, oh my gosh, this is like homemade coolness. It's handmade. That's awesome. Like none of them are that faulty or anything, but the ones that had like a little paint splatter or

something missing, I That's so cool. I still numbered them because I was like, oh my gosh, this is cool. This is TTO. We're not some sterile brand. We like fingerprints. Anyway, it was fun to number them all and like look at each one and make sure that it was all good.

and if you send it in a game, we'll send you a poster. Here we go. Yeah. But it's possible that no one gets a poster if we don't like any of the games. Wow. So.

If this also, therefore, nonwithstanding fine print. That's right. Okay. So before we move on to real questions, we have a cool little announcement here. And Eric, I think you should be the one to talk about it.

This is actually a cool, big announcement. It's not a little. announcement by any means, but TTL has a nutrition partner at long last. New nutrition partner is Tailwind Sports, which just like I have been experimenting with their stuff since like early January. Paul has been trying it and like their company's story and the ethos and the brand and the whole thing just really spoke to me. Small company, Durango, Colorado. They make all of their nutrition in Durango, Colorado, started by a husband and wife couple, you know, just like the typical founder's story where they wanted something that was going to be easier on their stomach and allow them to get through long runs, long rides, races whenever they did them and stuff. And I just think the stuff's really super tasty.

Coolest part about this announcement right now is if you are a podcast supporter, we've worked in like a little bit of an extra perk with this. They are developing and we're helping them develop this high carb fuel, which is sort of an answer to the whole 90 grams of carbs an hour thing. In each one, each serving of this high carb fuel, you have 90 grams of carbohydrates, a really great blend. of electrolytes in there. And I think it's just, it's like formulated for exactly what we are looking for out of our nutrition. It's like 360 calories for a pouch of it. Yeah.

And it mixes in, it mixes in incredibly. It's like lemonade flavor. It's not released yet. It's still in like the trial phase. But I just drank one bottle of that in Montrein-Blau, and I was fine for the run. Yeah. Especially when you're racing and like having a higher concentrated thing if you're not able to get 100% of every ounce of liquid out of a bottle.

huge. So the stick of this is they're developing this. It's in beta and they offered up to our podcast supporters. If you're so inclined you can go over the site. You can basically you just need to put in your email because we gave them a list of email so that you can be pre-approved to see this limited thing.

And no pressure here, but if you want to, you can get on there, you can buy one and try out just new stuff. That is it. I will be doing that. So is this their first, like, high carb mix? Yeah. Yeah. Basically it was just an answer to people using their normal endurance fuel. Our favorite flavor of that is

lemon, by the way. But if you mix that to like 350 calories, you just get like a very high amount of sodium in there. So they've just basically leveled out the amount of sodium that you get by adding more carbohydrates into it.

Tailwind's most well-known athlete to this point is Courtney DeWalter. She's kind of been there. main figurehead athlete. She's an ultra runner, one of the best ever to do it. And she runs like 15 hour plus races. So it gave us a lot of confidence that the product is good for long distance and that the company is really cool. And anyway, we really like Courtney and her vibe. She doesn't just run the 15 hour plus races. She wins the 15 hour plus races. And buy a lot. By hours. And they made a custom, we're going to make a custom TT. flavor with them, which is so cool about a small company like this is they can do that with us. But they made a

flavor for her, which is actually my favorite flavor, the Dualtermelon. And it's watermelon flavor. Right. It tastes really good. And they branded it with her and had her autograph on them and stuff like that. So we're excited to do some fun stuff with Tailwind and TTL. Yeah. Yeah. Cool stuff you can do with small companies and

especially local companies. So we're just like to about that. And if your podcast supporter, check out that opportunity. We'll be sending an email as well just with some details. Tailwind doesn't make anything but drink mix at this point. So for gels, we'll still be using other things. They got hydration thing and then they got an endurance fuel and then they got a recovery stuff. Yeah.

Now, we could get into it a lot more, but that's just the announcement. We're psyched. Check it out. Well, speaking of podcast supporters, if you want to become a podcast supporter to help us keep the podcast going and to be involved in cool things like this as well as other stuff that we periodically put out, you can do that at the, that triathlonlife.com slash podcast. And that's also where you can submit questions for the podcast,

and you do not have to be a podcast supporter to submit questions to the podcast. In fact, we encourage everyone to submit questions for the podcast, like Paula was saying. Here's our first question here from Billy. Hi, team, big thanks for providing immaculate vibes and congrats on a killer season so far. Also can't wait for the next red-tail bed drop. I'll be in there like swimwear. What a great pun appropriate. That's wild.

What a coincidence. When is that dropping, though? What day? I don't have a day yet because we need to drop those that you've now signed with the numbers in the mail and just find out when they'll be to our warehouse and then it'll happen. Okay. Stay tuned. We will make it very obvious when it's happening, but it will be within the next two weeks, guaranteed. Great, great.

Quick question on bike pedals. I have been training for sprint tries and have a pedal-based power meter, a single-sided ascioma on my road bike. I also really enjoy casual biking around town with my partner who is not into training. We take our paved river trails to get coffee and breakfast. and groceries, but I've been embarrassing my wife by clopping along in the coffee shop and my bike shoes. I sometimes bring Birkenstocks in a backpack to slide into when we hit our destination, but I'm wondering if I could instead just wear sneakers with my clippless pedals. Obviously, would not be able to clip in, but would it be dangerous or stupid to just push the tops of the pedals with normal shoes?

Also concerned because I wouldn't want to damage my power meter. Many thanks for the movement. Really hope you can help save my partner from this weekly embarrassment. Hugs and kisses, Billy. what do you guys think? Personally, if we're going for a casual commuter ride and we're at like a training camp, so all we have is our fancy bikes, even our TT bikes, I'll just ride sneakers on my clip pedals. There's enough of a surface area to like put your shoes on there, only if you're not trying to go like a million watts, right? Like don't get out of the saddle and sprint.

Not an out of the saddle solution. Yeah. Don't pull up. If you pull up, you're going to knee yourself in the head. Yeah, exactly. Just be cautious, but like it's for sure doable. And I'd say not that unsafe if you're just a little bit more attentive than you would be with your clipped in pedals. I have done this many times watching you guys at races on speed play pedals, which I'd say are probably the worst case scenario.

Oh, that maybe would be a situation. We cannot, for legal reasons, endorse this behavior with speed play pedals. All other Delta-style pedals, we can endorse. Yeah, we're using time pedals, and they have like a pretty big platform. So, Eric, is there any world where you could damage the power meter by doing this? No, definitely not. I mean, I would just, again, just pay attention, make sure your shoe isn't like smacking the battery compartment for your power meter. You know, like SRM has a little battery compartment, but no, it'll be fine.

Bikes get crashed and the power meter's fine. Yeah. And then I have an alternative solution here, if you want, Billy. This is what I should be doing, but I'm not. I was looking on the Osceoma website, and they either come in Shimano or look for these pedals. And for both of those online, you can find these little, they're like flat pedal conversion kits that you can clip into the pedals.

So they become a kind of a bigger, comfortable flat surface. And then you just take them off when you're done. with a ride. Is that something you two would ever use? Is that too newbie? Yeah, it's kind of cool actually. It's a great idea. I just also like when I'm envisioning myself about to jump on the bike to go get pokey bowls, like, do I remember these things or I'm like, I'll be fine. Yeah. The main thing for me is like we don't commute with our fancy nice bikes because we don't want to leave them outside anywhere. Yeah. Right. Same. I have my fix you for that. Our threshold for distance that we're doing this is also relatively low.

Yeah. It's like two blocks, three blocks. Yeah. The only solution is to get a whole e-bike. They come with flat pedals. Yeah, great news. You should just get another bike. You should get a single speed with flat pedals or an e-bike.

Get the, like, do the cruising for the cruising and the workout bike for the working out. Babe, see, Eric said to get another bike. Yep. Green light. Green light. Okay. Next question here is from Danielle. Hi, Paul, Eric, Nick and Flynn.

I'm a long-time listener. But first-time question. asker. I'm not new to triathlon and have race at 70.3 worlds and Kona. My coach is awesome and a newly minted pro in the women's field. She always programs my rides and Zwift for me, but of course encourages me to ride outside when I can. I've realized I never follow the workouts when I ride outside and just let all the hills in my area dictate my efforts. I'm wondering how often you follow a prescribed interval session or V-O-2 max session, et cetera, when you ride outdoors. Do you always save those types of rides for the trainer, or do you try to follow the

workout despite whatever nature puts ahead of you. Thanks for the great content each week. You're each so inspiring and it's fun to follow all your successes. Nick, keep the covers coming so we can listen to you for a whole run. Best Danielle. Thanks, Danielle. When I read this question, I was like, we need to put this in the podcast because to me, it brought light to how different some amateur athletes are from the mindset of professional athletes. When we go outside for a workout, we 100% do it and it might mean we're going back and forth on the same road 20 times

to make it the optimal road for the actual intervals but it's such an interesting idea to think that someone even would consider not doing the workout outside and only on Swift to me I don't know don't you think not in a condescending way

just in the sure sure totally if you're doing a workout dictated by the terrain It's definitely not going to be anything like what you are supposed to do for your intervals. Yeah, I think there's kind of a continuum of this. And obviously it comes down to like what roads do you have access to. Do you live in a city? Do you live somewhere that's super hilly?

But I think Paul and I are like maybe slightly different places on the spectrum. When I do escape from Alcatraz, for example, I like to go out and do like my four by five minute hill repeats on like two different hills. like two different routes up the same hill, you know, in the neighborhood or whatever, just to simulate the differences of escape from Alcatrazana. That kind of gets me into the headspace of that race and descending a slightly different way. But some people just want to do the exact same hill over and over again and see if they can get one meter further each time. Some people want to make it so optimal that doing it outside in a car coming by or wind or rain

or any of those things just messes with their head too much and doing it on the trainer is the way to go. So I don't think there's any right or wrong answer here, but we for sure just plan our workout around, okay, if we have TT bike intervals, we know the couple of roads that are really good for the TT bike intervals. If we have five minute hills, we got a hill for that. If we got seven minute hills, we got a hill for that.

And we do it outside and as naturally as possible because that's where you race. Yeah, that was my way of saying, I don't think you should ditch the prescribed workout just because you're going outside. Yeah, yeah, just plan the route around it. Ride 30 minutes to that one hill or to that flat road and go back and forth on that flat road.

Yeah, keeping in mind, that you might need to do repeats several times of one thing to make it more optimized for that session. Yeah. The last thing I'll say is like if I'm particularly tired and I feel like it's going to be hard for me to hold the watts, I will go slightly more adventurously on this. And I'll like pick out a route that I think sounds fun and I'll do the best that I can to hold the watts even though it's a little bit rolling or whatever. And that's a way for me to not just be so overwhelmed by I'm going up a 1% grade,

which is optimal, but I can introduce a little bit more adventure and fun to it because that's my personality. And also more realistic for racing environments. Like sometimes when I'm, I go to Skyliner, which is like a 25 minute climb at a perfect gradient with a huge bike lane, good surface, and very few cars. That's like my comfort zone and I can do any workout on that road at really good watts because my external variables are very few. But sometimes my coach will say, go do it somewhere other than skyliner because you need to get used to turning and pushing power downhill and like encountering some things that are not perfect, even if it means your watts are like 10 or 15 lower for the interval, just because that's what racing is like.

And if you're just always doing it in this like perfect environment, it's not ideal. So kind of what Eric's saying, you can do a blend of both. It doesn't always have to be perfect, but I think there should be some attempt to do the structure within an outdoor ride. Eric, you use that as a motivational tool though, right? It's to get you more excited about it. Yeah, and if I go on a rolling course and I'm able to hold my race power and it's windy and whatever things are, the shit is in the fan and I still hit the workout, like that's the biggest confidence boost for me possible.

We're like, man, this went wrong, this went wrong, this was an optimal, this was an optimal, and I still hit the power. Like, I'm so good to go for racing. Right. Yeah, last thing I'll say about this is if the, if this person does live in a city that is really non-conduasive to intervals, which is totally understandable, you can save your easier or cruise rides or long rides for outside where there's no structure required and just do your intervals on Zwift. That is completely fine as well to get like

the goals accomplished with the efforts and then go outside for all the easy rides. Okay, I have a question for you guys. It's a guilty thing that has been on my mind, so I'm hoping you will absolve me of this guilt. when I do my intervals on Mandeville Canyon, it's just one long 20-minute road or whatever, but 20 minutes all out. So if I'm doing a workout, I very often can't just keep going up. I have to come down on the recoveries.

Yeah. My recoveries and my workouts always have a range I should be in with Watts. It's low, it's easy, and if I had an infinitely long climb, I could easily do it. But when I turn around, I don't pedal. I kind of just maybe pedal very softly, but I go to zero.

So how bad do you think that is? Yeah, I have that issue too here because Paulo, our coach, will prescribe our rest not as like zero watts. It's still kind of pushing a bit of power to simulate like a 70.3 race or an Iron Man where you're just constantly kind of working. But you're right, as you're coming downhill, it's really hard to maintain that power. So that's where we have to get a little bit creative with our roots and where we ride. we go out to a place called Sun River, which has really long stretches of road where you can just hold power forever.

But for those types of workouts where you want a hold power, even in the recovery, Zwift is just better for that. Yeah. But it's not all bad, Nick. I mean, sometimes if you go to zero watts on the recovery,

you get more watts on the intervals. Totally. But is that really the training stimulus that the whatever coach or plan is trying to invoke? Whatever. He's still qualified for 70. 5, three worlds.

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Wow. I love it. Yeah. Eric has different thoughts on that. Eric can push power downhill.

Yeah. So well. Just sit up and freaking put it in the biggest gear you have and push and go fast. That's, you know. Yeah. That's like dangerous on Mandible Canyon. Yeah. Obviously within reason.

Safety third. You know what I've done in the past is if I have like a whatever long interval and I'm like realizing I don't have enough room at the top to finish it? I will be peddling with the brakes on so I can still put out power. Yeah. But I'm not moving as quickly. Totally fine. I've done that too.

Yeah. Okay. Well, there you go, Danielle. So you can be a little bit of this, a little bit of that. Next question here is from Eric with a K. It's short and sweet. Of the three triathlon disciplines, which one would you rather do an hour record for? Which is for the listeners, the furthest distance, you can go in an hour.

Is this even a question? That was brutal. I thought it was obvious and then when I really thought about it, I was kind of torn between two. Oh, interesting. I'm thinking running. Really? And I first thought cycling and then decided on running as well. I think the hardest would be cycling, but the only thing I'm interested in is cycling.

Right. There's a little talk to your therapist about that one, Paula. Because with running, there's just like this. There's a mechanical barrier to going faster at a certain point. Like, I could not go. I guess in cycling there is too, but I feel like on the bike you can go so much deeper without any mechanical limitations. That's why it is worse. It's so much worse, but I feel like it's, I don't know.

I have the best chance of like doing well at it. Oh, okay. So that's what, well, that's a different question. Yeah, it's not about which one you're doing well at. It's like the kind of pain that you feel in the effort, like which one you prefer. Still cycling, I think, for you though, right? Yeah, I would do. Also, the bike is like, that's a thing.

The hour record is a thing. There's no hour record for running, or at least not on the scale of cycling or swimming. Yeah. Or you have to say like trying to get half marathon PR. It would be the closest thing. Yeah. You know what? I feel like it's not this, it's not, because something about the, if you go harder, it's not going to end sooner.

It's an hour. Like there's something that's pretty brutal about that. Totally agree. Yeah. It's like push-ups or pull-ups to failure. Oh, yeah, exactly. Oh, my God. Swimming would just be so boring to me.

Also, the hypoxic, oh my God, that sounds horrible. We used to do the two-hour version of that for the swimathon. Yeah, but you were like 12. You weren't actually going as hard as you could. Oh, I definitely was. He has some trauma actually from it. The hour record's interesting on the track, like the actual world record, because they're not allowed to have a power meter that they see.

I just not know that. Wait, really? Yeah. Wow, I'm totally ignorant to that. I mean, you can't, I don't even think you can have splits by your, I think your coach can talk to you, but I don't think you can have like a pace clock at the start line. Can you? I don't

Or a countdown clock? It might be as rudimentary as your coach saying Faster or slower Yeah I think it's like that What? It's really really bare bones And like you'll hide your power meter On the back of your saddle or something

So you can have the data after But it's completely a self-paced effort Which is why it's such a crazy insane Wow So in Bradley Wiggins Oh my God Yeah I think in most ways

They've tried to keep it as pure. As pure and unchanged from the beginning of when cycling started and obviously this went out the window with like bike advancements, but there are at least position your rules and yeah, no power meters and like this modern technology and whatever, like in the effort. The effort's supposed to be as you pacing it as well as you can.

And the guys 100 years ago didn't have power meters. That's really cool. That's really, really cool. Yeah. Do they ride those bikes? I should know this, but is it a fixed gear for the hour record? Oh, yeah, one gear. Which is a whole thing on its own.

What gear? Totally. Yeah, what gear do you do? What's your cadence? But you don't have a computer to tell you your cadence. Right. Oh, my gosh. That's epic.

Wow. Well, good question, Eric, Eric with a KC. A short question can spur a lot of the interesting debate. There were a couple of really short questions this week, Nick. Did you put the other one in? Yeah. I did. Okay, cool. Yeah. If you can send in a one-sentence question that makes us talk for longer than 10 minutes, I'll send you a shred till bed poster. Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Wow. Oh, wow. Okay. Next question here is from Amanda. Hey, TTL fam. So I'm about to have my first baby next month, but already dreaming of getting back into racing when I'm able to. I did my first full Iron Man last year and felt great about how it went, even given that I was only a few spots away from qualifying for,

I'm considering trying a 70.3 when I get back from maternity leave because I've never done one. But I would love to be somewhat competitive. So my question is, how does one know between 70.3s and full Iron Man's, which race length one's body is more geared towards? I love training in general, so it's not really about which one I would enjoy more, so much as whether there's a way to tell which one I might be better at. Thanks for all you guys do. I look forward to the pod every week, Amanda.

Interesting question here. Because we see the difference, like we see some athletes, you'd think like anything over a couple hours, you know, it's going to scale pretty similarly, but there's some athletes that are really much better at full distance. Some athletes that are much better at 70.3 distance. Man, it's kind of hard to know without trying one. But I guess you could potentially look at the paces

from the athletes in your age group and just for a 70.3 and just do some workouts or test sessions that might give you an indication of if you're capable of running, and biking, you know, and swimming the speed that it would take to, I don't know, win your A-Troop or whatever, versus you've already done an Iron Man. That might be where I would start. Yeah, that's the tough thing is that it's 70.3s are getting so fast at the pointy end that it's a completely different effort level, obviously, than doing a full Iron Man. But the challenge of Iron Man is a completely different beast, in my opinion, going for that long of a time.

something that I don't particularly think I'd be super suited for. I'd rather go faster for shorter. So it's hard to know whether you'll be better at riding like maybe 30 or 40 watts higher, but for half the amount of time versus being able to go lower watts but hold it all day. Yeah, I think, I mean, since you've already done an Iron Man, I feel like this is an easier thing to potentially just test of like, can you even go 30 watts faster than you're already doing? or is just like you're just like the one gear type of person and you're super happy at the one gear and that one gear is kind of high-ish.

You know, like I would say like just comparing Paula and myself like my 70.3 power best ever is like 316 watts or something. And if I'm doing a, you know, five by 10 minute workout, like that's kind of what I do. And it takes a lot for me to get higher watts than that versus I feel like Paula can just like uncork 30 watts higher. than her 70.3 effort relatively often, which indicates she could probably do a really fast Olympic distance, you know, versus... Maybe that's why I'm good at the time trial. Yeah.

You know, just like that type of profile, if that makes any sense. Although I would say that coming back from having a baby, focusing on doing a half is a great idea. Just because of the time it takes to train for it is less, I'd say, overall. Yeah. You don't have to do the super long rides to prep for it, the running is a little bit less, and you can focus a little bit more on your speed.

And, like, if you like them both, who cares what you're better at? You just pick which one you like better, I guess. Try everything. Try an Olympic, try a sprint. That's what I was going to say. Do you think it would be worth it to do a sprint or an Olympic to kind of gauge this thing?

Why not? Why not? Are we afraid of losing some time by, like, trying things out? You know, like, we're hoping that everybody who listens to this is on the pathway to being a triathlete for 10, 15, 20 years or whatever. You got time to try all the things and see what you like the most. Yeah. Some people are really attached to doing Ironman brand events, though, which is understandable.

In general, they're really well run and they're prestigious and all of that. So in that case, picking between a half and a full are the two options. Although at Tromba, 70.3, they had a 5150 the day before, which is an Olympic distance. Yeah. Similar course, half the distance of a 70.3. It was cool to see that versus having a 70.3 in a full on the same weekend. You do a 70.3 in an Olympic. And I don't know if that's like, I guess it's an Iron Man thing.

It was. I thought they'd fully killed that off. They used to have a lot more of them. Yeah, but I thought it was great. Yeah. Anyway. Well, congratulations, Amanda, and good luck. Yeah.

Next question here is from Lisa, from Luxembourg. Dear Paula, Eric and Nick, I'm totally in racing season now and have my fourth competition in four weeks this weekend. Oh boy. Did a hilly Olympic distance in Germany, Ironman 70.3, West Freeland, I'm sure I pronounced that wrong, a swim run, 24 kilometers of running and 4K of swimming in Luxembourg, and this weekend I'm doing the running leg of a triathlon in a relay of 10k. That said, I'm still very motivated, but body is getting a bit tired. How much racing is too much racing for you? What would you see as your personal limits? What was your biggest back-to-back racing that you've ever done? Thanks for the great podcast, newsletters, YouTube content, and all you provide to us, all the best from Luxembourg, Lisa.

Dang. I mean, that's a very personal kind of depends on you. And I think the amount of stress that you're incurring at each event has as much to do with the difficulty of each event, at least for us. If you do like a very high stress race and the next one's a very high stress race, you just kind of start to feel exhausted from trying to do your best and having to be dialed. But that does, I mean, that sounds like a lot of racing, but also a lot of fun what you're doing. Yeah, I think your body kind of tells you if it's too much. Yeah. And your mind tells you if it's too much. And you have to be a little bit planful about your entire year and look at it on like a bigger scale than just what I have next week and in four weeks from now. And this happened to me actually just like in the last couple weeks where I was trying to decide if I was going to do the London T-100 race. and dive right back into a really hard training block for that to race at the end of July,

keeping in mind that I still have six races to go between September and December. So, of course, I could do London physically, mentally, emotionally, I'm fit enough. But is that the best plan for me to be racing well in December? So maybe consider, like, what's your most important race? Maybe they're all just as important as each other. but if the more important races are later in the year, maybe dial back the amount you're racing right now. And it is important to not only have downtime and recovery if your season is really long, but also to have blocks where you can just focus on training and not have it interrupted by racing and traveling and being on the move.

And that was kind of my thought with having this big long summer. It's not really a break. It's kind of like a big training block to get ready for the fall. without any stress of, oh my gosh, I have a race in two weeks. So I made that a little bit personal to me, but I looked at the total number of races for the year. It was going to be way more than I've ever done. So I started to have to pick a few, including London, that I was just going to sit out with in mind what I've got left to go. And would you say that the most back-to-back racing you've done, would it be the time trial into Montrein-Banchus now?

Or back in your ITU days, do you think you had more of that of like race, race, race, weekend, weekend? That was probably like the shortest back-to-back in terms of being, actually no, when I was a junior triathlete, I raised the junior national championships on Saturday and won. And then I raced the senior national championships the next day and also won. Wow, that is so cool. That might be the coolest thing I've done. But that was during the 2008 Olympics, so all the Olympians were not at the senior national champion. That's a little disclaimer. But anyway, that was probably like the – when you're young, you can do shit like that.

Yeah. You like recover from a sprint in two hours and you're good to go. Eric, what about you? The World Triathlon Grand Final in Norway and then the next weekend going to the Beijing International Triathlon in China. Yeah, the time change made it. Traveling with a TT bike in a cardboard box and a road bike, thank God in a wheeled box and the time change and the food and all the things that go along with that. Is that the one that we watched, Eric? We watched a video of that and you race.

Did you win or you got like second or something, right? That's not the year I won. I think I got second or third that year. I got 16th. I got 15 or 16th in the World Triathlon series. Grand Final. Yeah, that's cool. That's really cool.

And I'll just say because an athlete who races, the WTCS World Triathlon Circuit reached out and just wanted to make sure that people understand that it's no longer called ITU. We call it ITU because back in the day, it was the International Triathlon Union and they have since rebranded. So if there's any confusion around that,

the draft legal style of racing that gets you to the Olympic Games, that's what we're talking about when we say, ITU or draft legal. We should just say draft legal, right? Is that a neutral enough term? I feel like that's the most understandable thing. Right.

Because ITU is like kind of straight up wrong at this point. We still say it, but technically it's wrong, right? I think it's an unfortunate rebrand personally, but draft legal is the easiest thing to understand. Right, right. Cool. Okay, this one here is for you, Eric. It's from Andrew. Hey, Paul, Eric, Nick and Flynn.

Andrew from Phoenix. This question is mostly for Eric. how do you recon exterra courses prior to the race? I'm signed up for Xtero Whistler and I'm having difficulty

finding details beyond the provided map. I'm hoping to understand terrain a bit more so I can mentally prepare for the bike and run. This will be my first

Xterra race so any other tips and tricks related to packing, traveling, etc. would be appreciated. Thanks for all you do

for the triathlon community, Andrew. This is a fantastic question and there's not a fantastic answer to it, but I firmly believe now that I've done enough Xteras,

that it is a borderline impossible to win as a pro anyway, an Xtera on your first try on that course. Because tire selection, tire pressure, knowing the course at race speed, all of these things are so critical with a sport. You're pushing your gear to the limit that hard. So it is really important. I go to a race like four days ahead of time for Next Terra at minimum,

and I'll usually ride like the first half of the course one day and I'll ride the second half of the course the next day. I try to put a little bit extra effort into going quickly on the descents or the technical sections and just like chill on the uphills as much as I possibly can and try to like make a little bit of tire pressure, tire choice, you know, suspension setup, decision in real time as I'm doing that. Also, I know a few people who have done X-stairs in the past and the courses have pretty much not changed over the years. I'll text all of them and ask like, hey, typically,

does it rain? Is it usually wet? Is it not wet? Like, what kind of tire did you use to use? Any sort of things that I can get from them? Is there a ridiculous corner at, you know, mile 40 typically, this kind of stuff? Because it's, it's really tricky, but that's also a lot of the fun. You have all of this extra stuff to think about that is not just am I fit. How do I feel, you know, all that you can like focus on the gear a little bit and optimize. that. And is there anything else you'd say as a first timer? Keeping in mind smooth is fast. Like pushing to the point of where you feel like it's frantic and you're sprinting out of every corner and you lose the flow. Like focus on being smooth and riding corners properly and carrying

momentum, not necessarily riding fast. That has been like a really good thing for me to keep in mind to just not crash and actually like finish the bike as well as I started. That's good advice for all kinds of biking, but I noticed it in mountain biking makes such a big difference to maintain momentum more than anything else. Yeah, every little time that you have to hit high torque and go well above your race power to reaccelerate that is a match that's burned. And man, like X-Dera running is just insane.

with you can be feeling great and then just the rest of the race or that one last hill that you just did just catches up with you so fast and you go from running a great pace to one minute slower than that. Yeah, right. Just instantly.

Brutal. So conservation of the matches and the momentum is huge. Yeah, cool. Okay, here's one from Amy. This is the other short one. In a world where gels don't exist, an Ironman and Xera

will fill your aid stations with one lolly or candy of your choice. What would you choose? Now, are we talking, here's the thing is, are we talking like what's going to make my brain happy or what's going to make me feel like I'm going to race well? I don't know if it's the same answer. I'll give us both answers. I think the thing about candy is I don't like ever crave candy or buy it. I'm a big, much more of a chocolate person. But when I'm training, the idea of eating candy sounds sometimes healthier in a weird way than eating gels. You're totally right. It's because, first of all, you don't consider Twix or Snickers candy? Like, I consider, I agree with you.

Like, you're talking about like jolly ranchers and Starbursts. Yes, exactly. Those have like a much, I don't know how to describe it, but there's like not as much fat. It's just more pure sugar. Whereas we like the sugar fat combination, ice cream, cookies, donuts, muffins. Like, that's what I crave. I never crave like the Swedish food. like you said, but I think they are better for racing, for sure.

But I mean, like, off the bike, that's what we'll always pick, is like the donuts and the chocolate. But on the bike, if I had to, like, get in-race nutrition in the form of candy, I wouldn't pick those chocolatey options. I would pick, like, Swedish fish or gummy worms. People do gummy bears. Like, legit, people do gummy bears. Yeah. Swedish fish is my favorite candy if I had to pick one. Also, you know what are really good

Is the Scandinavian swimmers from Trader Joe's? Oh, right. Which is Swedish fish, is it not? It might be, yes. Better flavors and better consistency. Okay, okay. Now I'll feel 100%. 100%.

Sour Patch Kids. Wow. That's what we had this weekend. We had a Costco-sized bag of Sourapatch Kids. Those are so sour. They give you like cancarsores. Worth it. Worth it.

Nothing is worth the canker sore guys. Gel packets cut the edges of my lips and I have sores for weeks, so whatever. I mean, it's completely false that candy's better for you than gels because gels generally have amino acids and sodium and stuff that's like... I mean, one is designed for performance, the other one is designed for flavor.

So I would imagine that the gels are a little more purpose built. Yeah, but candy's also cheaper. Like if you're just on training rides, and you want to take a cost-effective, a bag of Scandinavian swimmers from Trader Joe's is like $2.99. That's probably the best sugar source on a budget. What about your comfort food at a gas station that you get?

What are you getting and you're bonked at a gas station? Snickers. Snickers. Snickers and a Gatorade for me. A Gatorade? I don't do long enough rides to bong on them. Also, you have somehow developed this ability to not eat a lot during rides and still be fine. Gatorade.

There are so many good things to drink at a gas station. You go with Gatorade? Yeah, I like Gatorade. Or Arizona green tea. Yeah, that's a great answer. They don't have this in the U.S., but my favorite chocolate bar is Mars bars. Which the Canadians will understand. We have Mars.

Don't we? Is it different than yours Mars? Maybe it is. I don't know. Mars is the owner is the parent. company. Also, remember when you guys attacked me for saying Cole's notes? Oh, dude,

the comments I got about Colin's notes. Enough of the dramaticness. We did not Yeah, well, I said Cole's notes and you guys were like, oh, what? Do you mean Cliff Notes? And then I doubted myself. And I said, yes, cliff notes, yes. And then the numbers for asking a question.

We were not attacking you. I remember this vividly. Also, so many comments and messages about Coles notes when that episode came out. I know. I got a ton of messages too being like, you were right. It's Kohl's Notes in Canada. Yeah. You're not Dom.

Even my mom. Before the episode even came out, before the episode even came out, Paul, I sent you a message. I sent all three of us a message confirming that Kohl's Notes was in fact a real thing. So we did know, but we appreciate the confirmation from everybody. Yeah. The Canadians really like

to just like own what's Canadian. Yeah, of course. Of course. Okay. Last question here from Garth. Hi, Eric Paula, Nick and Flynn, Garth from Toronto. Eric and Paula, I appreciate your openness about your inspiration and motivation while deep in the competitive season. What is yourself talk like? I know you have a routine for getting ready, setting up your transition, etc., but do you have a routine for your inner monologue? Nick, as an age group or do you have any phrases, words, or talismans that you rely on to remind you while you do this to yourself?

Thanks for all you do in creating a kinder, more compassionate world of triathlon. Garth. I can't imagine either one of you really doing this, but I'm curious if that happens, like, out loud or if not, if it happens anything in your head. What our self-talk is before races? Even during. A lot of the time I use self-talk to, like, take the pressure off myself, which sometimes helps. Like, this is just another race. You've done this a million times.

If you don't do well in this one, it's going to be fine. Your life is great. I don't know. True, which is all true. And does it actually help? Does it move the needle at all? Yeah, I think it takes pressure off a little bit. And most times in races, I'm not in such a bad position that I need to use that tactic. But it's often like before the race to alleviate the stress and pressure that I put on myself is all kind of tell myself it's okay if it doesn't go perfectly. Yeah, I know. I remember in earlier, races when I was more concerned about my results, when someone would pass me and I would see that they were in my age group, I would convince myself that I was happy for them for beating me instead

of trying to chase them because I'm like, I don't have it in me. I can't do it. Yeah. Just kind of be a peace with it. But do you never say anything out loud? No. I have said out loud to myself, like, it sounds so stupid, but I have said you can do this to myself like halfway through a 70.3 run of like, oh God, okay, just one more lap. I've definitely said one more lap to myself before. I remember during Iron Man, Wisconsin too, when I was just like, all I wanted to do was get to the finish. I remember telling myself out loud, like, just get to the finish. Just get to the finish. Don't worry about the time. Well, I didn't get to the finish, so no. But what it did, what it did do is it was a good practice in letting go of the ego a little bit. And just, if I have to walk, I have to walk. It

doesn't matter. The point is I'm going to get to the finish. Yeah. I don't think it's cheesy or anything to say it out loud and verbalize it and hear yourself saying it. Like whatever works in the middle of a race when you're in that much discomfort and stress, that might help. Do you ever say anything, Eric, to yourself? Nope. Sometimes I'll, like, hear someone else's voice in my head that's, you know, like, positive or negative. Like, you know, when I was, when I, when I, one Alcatra, the first time my coaches voice was in my head.

Like, you let that old man beat you. I'm like, no, I can't let that happen. You know, just like random stuff that pops into my head like that. Or storylines or like, I'm more like visualizing myself doing a corner really well or like having a good run stride or whatever. But I think the like the self-talk thing is probably, it's kind of always felt like a little bit contrived to me. To where it's like that almost sets off this thing of like, oh, wow, you're trying to talk yourself into this. You must, you know, versus just like.

like quieting my mind is it works more for me. That's my, that's, that's really what I meant with what I'm saying is it feels like I'm trying to trick myself and as soon as I'm aware of that, then it loses its effect a little bit. But when I've been feeling really bad before, it's like, you'll, I'll take anything I can get. Yeah. And I'll lie to myself if I have to. What I usually go to in my mind instead of mantras or phrases is I'll remember, workouts that I did that I got through that were challenging.

Like when I had 12K left in Montrein-Blaix and I kind of wanted it to be over, I was thinking about like that one minute on, three minutes off workout that I did around Discovery Park the week before that was exactly 12K. I was like, that wasn't that bad. Just do that workout. So it helps me to think back to hard things I did in a regular day and piece that into I can finish this race because I've trained so much. I would love to know if there was a way to actually qualify

how much those, that mental aspect of having done really hard workouts in the past and then calling upon them in a race, how effective it actually is at on race day. Because my feeling is that it's extremely effective. It just depends on the person. It just depends on the person. Like some people that works for, some people it doesn't work for. It depends on personality.

I remember Eric, you had said once, you start a race one time and you're like, how am I supposed to piece together my best swim from the past three months, my best bike from the past three months, and my best run from the past three months, because that's what it's going to take today. Opposite effect. Yeah.

That was like, that's a crushing thought at that point in time. Yeah. Yeah, I piece it into little pieces. Anyway, we are clearly not sports psychologists. No. Don't come here for mental advice. This is an open conversation that you're all invited to. Yeah.

That might as well be the sub-line for this podcast in general. Yeah. We are not experts in any field. You guys are definitely experts. And, you know, the nice thing is your mental state in this is interesting because we all go through it. And a psychologist or therapist or whatever, maybe they don't do the races like this. Yeah, that's true. We have in-life experience doing it.

That's right. Okay, well those are all our questions this week. You guys are baking alive. Eric, did you survive? Yeah, my phone was not surviving. That is why it's on the ground on a charging thing. I see, got it. I didn't just go to sleep over here. You're just lying on the ground panting like a dog?

Yeah, the audio of the podcast and our FaceTime situation runs through my phone and it is more tired than I am. So it's taking a little break on the charger over here. That's right. It's almost getting to the time of day where we open all the windows and doors for the whole night and let the house cool off. Yeah, it's nice. Can't wait. It's like this is the summer ritual.

And you guys have been taking dips in the creek at all? Yeah, we go down to Flynn. It's the only activity Flynn can do in this weather. So we just go sit in the creek. If you're new here, Flynn is our dog. And some people like to ride in Paula, Eric, Nick, and Flynn. Flynn doesn't really do anything for the podcast. He's our moral support.

And he gives us stuff to do throughout the day. He's a little fur child. He gives you stuff to do because you don't have. have enough. And he needs a dog sitter in September. You're also free to just take him. You don't need to come stay in our house. You can just take him away.

We'll throw in three posters if you'll take him. Okay. One poster per week. We don't really need a house sitter. We really just need you to take him to your house. Okay. We'll talk to you guys next week. Thanks, everybody.

Bye. Bye. Bye.