That Triathlon Life Podcast - Final IM 70.3 St. George hype, who has the best head start in triathlon, and more!

Episode Date: May 8, 2025

This week, we're gearing up for the final edition of Ironman 70.3 St. George in Utah! We kicked things off with some pre-race chatter, dove into a bit of Bike Tech with Eric, and then hit your listener-submitted questions. This week we covered:Running a narrower front tire for that extra aero edgeDo disc wheels hold up as long as spoked wheels?Which solo sport athletes have the biggest head start in triathlon?Simulating hilly rides on a smart trainerThe best U.S. cycling spots for early springCycling to work: junk miles or hidden fitness gains?A big thank you to our podcast supporters who keep the podcast alive! To submit a question for the podcast and to become a podcast supporter, head over to ThatTriathlonLife.com/podcast

Hello, everyone. Welcome to That Triathlon Life Podcast. St. George Edition. Woo! I'm Paula Finley. I'm Eric Loggerstrom. I'm Nick Goldston. We are all triathletes. Eric and I are professional triathletes.

Nick is an amateur triathlet and a professional musician. And every week, we take questions from listeners. We go over a little bit of what's going on in triathlon and talk about what's going on with That Triathlon Life, which is our brand, where we have a podcast, we have a YouTube channel, we have a community, we have stuff for sale. These two make films, so there's a lot going on, but this week

we're really excited because we're coming to you from a race. 70.3, St. George, the final edition before it goes away forever. The last dance. Last one, best one. All the catchy phrases. And Nick, would you like to break the news to the listeners? Sure, because I actually haven't put this.

No one knows this. I'm racing St. George this weekend, which I feel very lucky, and it was kind of an up-and-down situation. There was some confusion as if I were racing or not. but I will be racing. Paul and I are going to be racing at the same time. And before the podcast, I was thinking, what's the over-under for how much Paula is going to be faster than we buy?

And I was also thinking, like, Paula, I don't think, I think you have no frame of reference. Like, I could say 10 minutes or an hour. And I think, you don't really think in those terms. Should we try to math it out, like step by step? How much slower in the swim do we think Nick will be than Paula? Right. 12 minutes?

12 minutes? Okay. Because, Paula, do you have any idea of what you normally even swim in a 70 points? No, that's the problem with this game. Right, right. And also, every course is so different. This is actually, like, kind of a slow bike course, I'd say. I mean, it's fast when you're out there rolling, but the times are never super quick because

it has quite a lot of elevation gain. So I really have no clue. But, Nick, I would assume that maybe you'll be, like, 38 minutes behind me. I think that's right. I was going to say 35. I think that's very... Okay, what are you going to say, Eric? That close.

Yeah, I think... Yeah, I mean, next is a fast point. That's a lot of time. Well, I was a lot of times. So, yeah, I mean, yeah, I was going to go with something like 12 minutes or 10 minutes on the swim. And then on the bike, man, I would guess like another 20 minutes. Yeah, maybe not 20. I think each discipline will, you'll be about 10 minutes slower.

That's my prediction. Each discipline about 10 minutes. I'm just saying that because there's a lot of climbing. I'm just saying 20. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right.

But Nick has a lot of age groupers to draft on and I don't. That's also true. can do that. So it's a non-issue. Yeah, it's just, it's unavoidable, though. There is an advantage in being in a big group for us, for sure. And then if Paula runs 120, I figure Nick's like 15 minutes behind that. That would be a real bad run for me. Really? Yeah, I could be under 130. I've done it. I've done it before. Yeah, Nick, I got bad news for it. It's going to be hotter than the surface of the sun. I know. And this run is so slow. It's like over 200 meters of elevation gain. Yeah. So I don't know if you're going to get any peat. Really?

ER's here. Is it no. Is it all on diagonal there, the climbing? Well, it goes up diagonal and then it does a little loop of this church, which is quite hilly. And then it kind of dog legs back up into the golf course, which is really rolling. And I actually love it because it's a little bit cross country style where you can't really get into a rhythm. Like you do these sharp hairpins and then you climb a steep thing and then you bomb down on the grass. And it's a really hard course to like get into a rhythm. So I would say it's not very fast. But I, still love it. I think it's such a fun course. And because of the three kind of legs of it, I think it goes by pretty quick. Yeah, I was looking at the course today with a couple of my friends or also racing it. And we kind of agreed the same way that it looks not too daunting as far as the amount of loops and the stuff you do. But I personally don't love that cross-country, the golf course aspect of it. Because I like to get into a rhythm, especially with running. Okay. So our over-under, are we going to go with 40 minutes or 45 minutes? We're all doing our own numbers. I Well, that's not how an over-under works.

Right. That's true. That's true. Let's say the over-under is what Paula first said, 38 minutes, and I'm going to bet on myself for once and say under. I'm going over. So Paula's at 38 minutes. I'm over. Nick's under.

Winner buys ice cream, which is... I mean, you got a thing going with Kyle as well. So you could either have a lot of ice cream or be buying a lot of ice cream. That's true. That's true. That's true. We'll have to see. But yeah, so anyway, Paula, more importantly,

You're doing this race. You just raced Oceanside recently. Do you feel any differently about this compared to going into Oceanside? Yeah, I feel more confident for this race. I've done it. I just tracked five times before. So I know the course so well. And it's always a course that suits me a lot better than Oceanside.

And every year I come into Oceanside a little underdone, I'd say, and really struggle. But come here with like another month of training and a little bit more like, excitement for the course because I like it better. So yeah, I feel good about it. Similar field, but Chelsea's, it sounds like Chelsea Sedaro is going to be here. So that'll be interesting. Do you feel, and it's obviously totally okay if you don't. And I think people are very different on this, but do you feel an emotional kind of tinge knowing that this is the last year of this race? Do you have an attachment to it in that way? A little bit because I just have like, I have really good memories here. I've raced here five times.

before and all but one time I've finished on the podium. So I've won it twice, came second at the World Championships, second one year, and then fourth another year. So I've just always had really good races here. And it was my first 70.3 win in 2018. So a lot of like little cool things like that where because of that, it always feels like exciting to come back here. We have a great place to stay. We know it really well. Nick, you come do it too. So I don't know. It'll be sad. but that is life, right? Hopefully they replace it with something equally awesome. Yeah, I hope they don't just take it away and keep it away.

We all believe that they will replace it with something. We just don't know what that is yet. Oh, this is a good question. If we could pick any 70.3 that's existed in the past, they could become like a new pro series race or a new 70.3 to replace this. What would it be? 70.3, Ruidoso. It's a new race this year in New Mexico.

That's just the only new race that I personally know of. This was not the question, though. I would say I wish that 70.3 trombl would come back as a pro race. As North American champs. As North American championships. Yeah. The first place I ever laid my real natural-born eyes on both of you

was in Santa Rosa in 2018. Oh, that's a good race too. Oh, 2019, I think. So I would love to have that back. That just fully doesn't exist. It's gone. Yeah. See, like, generally the progression is that they, like, have a race the first year, and it's not a pro race.

And then the next year it might be a pro race. And so my guess is that if they're going to replace it, it's going to be with, yeah, Tromba or Chattanooga, something that's like a tried and true situation. And then maybe it could be something else that's new later on. And somewhere deep down, I really think that there might be a chance they'd bring this back. Yeah. Hopefully St. George just realizes what a mistake that they've made. by ending it. Do we know this?

Can we talk to this? Do we know why they're no longer doing it here? This, to me, felt like almost the capital of triathlon in this part of the country. I can't remember who I was talking to. So this just like put this somewhere between rumor and guessing. But they have a new LPGA golf course right at the base of Snow Canyon. And the town itself is just getting bigger. and I think the amount to which this race takes over town

and shuts down Red Hills Parkway, et cetera, et cetera, I think the town may have just grown a little bit beyond where it was when this was logistically a lot simpler. That would be... Yes. I think that makes the most sense to me. I see, right. Yes, it's becoming right, of course.

Like Bend, for example, is not interested in hosting any triathons or anything that would shut down any amount of the in-town infrastructure in the middle of the summer because it's just there's too much going on. They have enough tourism. They're not interested in, like, shutting any streets down.

Yeah, got it. Okay, Paula, I'm kind of curious. I know this isn't exactly in the spirit of this podcast, but do you change anything about your bike for this race because of the nature of the course, like the cassette, the chain rings? Is there anything you're changing here? I'm keeping all the same gearing as Oceanside.

Okay. I've been playing around a little bit with my front end because I had this realization that my most comfortable and fastest bikes were in 2021, 2022, and I had like this very rudimentary basic Shiv T, T, T, cockpit. And it's not fancy or flashy or arrow or custom. But it's really freaking comfortable. And I've been putting it, I've been training on it for the last couple weeks and I really love it. So I'm just kind of trying to decide if I go with like the wind tunnel tested watch shop, Super Arrow, tried and true, or the old setup where I was like second here at 70.3 worlds and can descend really confidently because I really like the comfort of it.

So that's still a decision to be made four days out from the race. The thing is back then, everyone was on those, well, more people were on those kind of like OEM's rudimentary setups. Basically, nobody had these custom things now. And now it seems like everybody does. So when we put these bars back on my bike, Eric, it looked so entry level. Because it wasn't like a scooped custom freaking thing like everybody has. So yeah, it's kind of crazy how even in two years, literally everyone's been to the wind tunnel and now as custom front ends. So for both of you, how much does that get into your head of I'm not using this super expensive elite piece of gear versus like, nope, I know what's,

fast. I know what's comfortable and that's what matters that all the stuff is just a distraction. At least to the end, towards the end of when I was doing 70.3 in the last couple years, it really didn't get into my head at all because I felt like, oh, we're all sitting at 11.5 meters. Anyway, the aerodynamics are really important if you're in Kona and you're off the front and there's crosswinds and stuff. But 70.3 racing is so dynamic. And all the times that I've fallen out of a group, it's because of pack drafting dynamics or like huge accelerations on hills and stuff. It has not been in my mind, oh, I'm losing something here because of the aerodynamics of my handelbars versus my fitness or race dynamics personally.

And Paula often is not as much affected by the race dynamics, the pack stuff because she's usually off the front. Pack of one. pack of one. Oh, that's not true. Do you think about this at all? Like, is it hard for you in some ways to reconcile that the fancy watchup when tunnel tested stuff may actually not be faster for you? Or are you like, nope, whatever's faster, that's all that matters.

I don't care about anything else. Oh, I think it's for sure aerodynamically faster. There's absolutely no question. But for me personally, as someone who's less confident on the TT bar bike, on technical parts and on downhills, for me, it's a matter of can I stay in the bars? and on a setup that I'm more comfortable on, I can stay arrow. And that's 100 times better than coming out of the bars that I'm not comfortable in, even if they're more arrow. So it's just like a matter of if my skills were 10 out of 10 and I was completely comfortable on both. Of course, the watchups are faster, but it's just kind of coming to a decision whether or not I can ride really confidently in the watchout bars.

And I do think I'll end up using them for St. George because I always ride better in a race and it's not a super windy day. and I know the course well. So anyway. I think this is a good just like general thought process though is anything you try in the wind tunnel or anything that you just read about as scientifically faster, test it, make sure that this position is realistic for you and that your head isn't like super high up relative to where you were in the wind tunnel and like try to achieve the real world fastest. Yeah, that is that is a flaw of the wind tunnel is that everyone's riding a really

tucked head position that's maybe optimal for or maybe. realistic for a 40k TT or a 30K time trial, but then when you get into a triathlon where we're all looking up for the race ranger lights and the courses are a little bit more technical. There's stuff in the way. There's people on the road. It's a lot different than riding a pure UCI time trial. So you see pictures in my head sticking way up. And yeah, part of that is just me being able to hold a more tucked position, but the other part part of it is just the need to see because these courses are, it's not like racing a time trial. And for age groupers, in an even more zoomed out way, it's about are you, did you design a position for yourself that is unsustainable?

So it's not even about like not tucking your head, but do you have to sit up every five minutes for 30 seconds? Is your back? Exactly. So it's like, well, then that's also not going to be net faster for you anyway. Yeah. All right. Well, wonderful. We're so excited for your race, Paula, last year.

A lot of memories here. I can't help but think about the World Champs year. That was so magical. And then Eric, even though Eric's not racing, Eric also raced World Champs here and got seventh. And there's such a great YouTube video if anyone wants to go back in the archives and check out that video. Like, rained at a certain point.

Yeah. We probably both had the best races of our lives here, me and Eric both. Yeah. In 70.3. Yeah. So cool. And then last thing is that we do have, well, actually, Eric, do you want to talk about it, the shakeout run?

Yeah, we're doing a shakeout run. run on Friday, organized by the Avenir Hotel where we're staying. And then I think it's called the Run Shop. It's like literally straight down, right? Next one door across the alley, I remember. Running store. And that will be at 8 a.m. on Friday morning. And then afterwards, there will be a brunch, which is buy one, get one half off.

Half off. Yeah, we would love it if you came and ran and hang. The brunch is at Woodash Rye, which is the restaurant attached to the Avener. So right at the finish of the run. that's where brunch will be. I suppose you could just come for brunch if you didn't want to run. Or you could just come for running. Paula, for example, is not going to do the run.

But are you coming for brunch, Paula? Yeah, I'll come for the brunch. Okay, great. For like a quick social, fit 30-minute brunch. And then it's a busy day. It is a busy day. Ideally, we would be doing this on Thursday. But I think a lot of amateur athletes show up on Thursday,

so maybe Friday we'll have better attendance. I don't know. Yeah. And just in case this is your first St. George, and you're listening to this, really familiarize yourself. with when do you drop your bike off, where do you drop your bike off, etc. And like really line up your Friday timeline to make sure that you're not, like,

it's 40 minutes from town to get out to the lake where you need to drop your bike off in transition one. And you've got to drop your run stuff off in transition two in town. So like really dial in the Friday schedule so you're not scrambling. Yeah, great advice. Great. Okay, well, let's move on to some questions. And this week we're going to do regular triathlon questions, but we have some bike tech

with Eric as well. Bike Tech with Eric. Okay, we got two Bike Tech with Eric questions here, actually. And I like that the first one from DJ starts out with Bike Tech with Eric, jingle or bust. So don't worry, the jingle has made it in. I recently heard something in the cycling podcast, a sphere, about running different tire widths on your front and rear wheel.

The idea that I had is to run a narrower tire up front for aerodynamics and a wider tire in the back for more surface area in contact with the road. What are your thoughts? Do any of you have any experience with this? For some reason, I keep thinking that cornering might get weird. Hoping to give it a try on my TT bike pending feedback. Thank you for the Thursday night, date night content.

That's great. My wife, Kelly and I always do a quick TT. I'll recap during dinner. We always appreciate the positive vibes. DJ. We've touched on this in the past on the podcast. But, Eric, what do you think of this idea? Yeah, I don't think it's a terrible idea.

The reason that I would, I guess the reason that I would go with is, like try to find out what tire width was your wheel was designed for because certain wheels were designed to be ridden with a 28C tire and to be the most comfortable and aerodynamic like that and some were designed around 26. I don't think anybody's designing tires yet around 30s, but I don't think I would go over a 28 in a race and very few TT bikes are going to handle that in the back anyway. That is the thing you might run into. It's just tire clearance in the rear is generally narrower, you know, less than in the front. So even though it might, yeah, be more comfy to have a bigger tire in the rear just for

handling reasons, you might bump up against that. But yeah, I would really let the, you know, the width of the rim be more of your guide versus just thinking that narrower in the front is faster because that's kind of been disproven at this point. When I first got in triathlon, we were running 19s in the front. One sec. I'm doing turn down service. Do you guys need any ice or taffler?

That's okay. We're just on a call, sorry. But thank you. Yeah, we're good. Thanks. Turn down service. Oh, wow. Fancy.

It's like where they give you ice and maybe a chocolate or something. Yeah, and they like make the bed more ready for you to get into it instead of it being like all. No more ready for you to fuck it up. Yeah, fuck it up. Yeah, they like turn. They literally turn. I think it comes from turning down. That's correct.

The comforter. The comforter. Yeah. We could include that we could have this stay in the podcast. Okay, okay. Turn down service. They're at the room you guys are in, the Adveneer is corner room, the bathroom is out. We should do a little photo shoot in there or something.

We have done a, well, I mean. We're contractually required to actually. We're all getting in the tub together. Okay, let's do that. That's great. Nick, you want to do a bubble bath for the ground? Perfect. We came back from, we came back from our run and they left charcutory in our fridge.

And some Epsom salts. And some Eps and salts. Smart. We just declined the turn down, but we'll try it tomorrow. For sure. Because it's a novelty. We don't usually get that at the hampton. This is what we're doing for the podcast.

Turning down the turn down service. You're welcome, everybody. Yes, very nice. Sorry, as I was saying, Eric, though, I remember when you guys were here last and you dropped off your ex-bike, which is now my bike, which I still have not paid you for. But I feel like I am, I keep referring to it as Eric's bike, but it is my bike now. and we had your tires. We had your bike next to my fixie.

And on my fixie, I have what looks like these toothpick tires on there next to your bike. And we did not believe that they were 23s. You thought they were 19s or smaller. But they were 23s. And we're just so used to this wider tire size now. 28s. 30s. Wild. 32s, yeah.

Yeah. Don't miss those times. No, I really feel like you're riding on rocks. Okay, so that was the first one there. The second bike tech with Eric question is from Matt. Hi, guys, I will start off with congratulations. This is a little delayed, Matt, but we still appreciate it. Paula on your ocean side win, great job.

And a video released, Eric and Nick, also great job. I have a tech question. I'm hoping you could shed some light on it. I have purchased a head disc wheel for racing this season. Why is it people tend to only use these during the race? are the lifespan far shorter than the average wheel. When I'm setting up my transition 70.3, should I also bring my stock rear wheel in case of problems?

Good luck on all of your race seasons, Matt. So right off the bat, Eric, what do you think of this without digging too much deeper into it? I would say that the amount of times that you use a disc, because, yes, they are a race-specific, you're not going to come anywhere close to the theoretical lifespan of said disc, whether it's a fully carbon honeycomb system or it's a cover over spokes, you're not going to wear that thing out.

Generally, people don't use them in training because, yeah, I mean, I don't know. It's expensive. If you crash, if you lean your bike up against a gas station up against a wall and it falls over, something could puncture it, like, and it does catch a little bit of wind. All these things, just make it not that practical or the best option for training on. You'll look like a loser. You're so fast. You look awesome.

Make sure you wear an arrow helmet. But if you're traveling to a race on a Tuesday and the race is on a Saturday and you're totally fine to ride the disc all week, that's what we normally do for flying to a race. Yep. It's not going to wear it out. In fact, it's probably good to get used to the feeling and the sound because it is a slight bit different than your training wheels. Yeah. The only reason that people would not run their race wheels on race week is just to avoid. flatting on the tires. It's a tire thing, not a wheel.

And having to get another race tire or, you know, ceiling everywhere and et cetera. So that's kind of why, if you have the option, people put those on last minute. Eric, when you were talking about this, you answered the question that I had, which was, 10 years ago, people weren't racing their deep section carbon wheels. Sorry, they weren't training on those all the time. And now you see that all the time. And I'm thinking, well, how soon before the same thing happens with rear disc? on T-T bike.

But you answered all those questions, leaning it up against something. They are more fragile in that way. You could punch a hole in them. They catch more wind. These things, like, they do kind of add up, don't they? Even though it does look really legit. Like a disc wheel in the rear,

like it has such an aggressive look. I think also at a certain point, there are things that you just want to pull out on a race day. Like, this is race-specific. This gives me the special feelings and all that. You know, at least that's how I am. Wait, did you guys ever do this in swimming? So a friend of mine who does listen to the podcast, actually,

he was a D1 swimmer, a really good swimmer, and he swam his whole life, of course. And he was saying how the whole team, including all the women on the team when he was growing up, they would purposely not shave their legs. Oh, yeah. Until an important... So wait a second.

So even the girls in the team had these really hairy legs. But it's just like it's all worth it. So that now is the point that you are, your feel for the water is so contrastingly better that you swim faster, or is it just to have the perception that you are swimming faster? That's both. I mean, it is faster. You got a bunch of little micro hairs on your legs in addition to, like, your big hairs,

and that is slow. Like, shaved legs is faster. Totally. But I mean, why not shave the whole season? Yes, because exactly what I said. That's a special, special feeling. And you hype it up and it becomes a thing and you dive into the water to race. like holy shit is like a dog that just jumped into an ice cold water and it has a zoomie.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This feels awesome. I'm going to go so fast. And it truly does. I, as a girl who I used to do that too when I was a swimmer. And of course, my legs didn't get as hairy as like Eric's legs are. But it's a noticeable difference when you shave down, they call it. And it's like a big party in the holiday in room and everyone's shaving down.

It's disgusting. That's so funny. Like swim teams should have to pay like a huge deposit for drain cloggage. Right. Because it's gross. Gross. But no, it truly is a feeling when you dive in the water and you're like, oh my gosh, I'm so aerodynamic. I'm so hydrodynamic.

I'm like a fish. Yeah. That's so cool. So one step beyond that, if you had back-to-back championship races like two weeks apart, our coach would have people like. Shave one leg. No. Like put on like swim in panty hose. say what like just to mimic that like drag just to like give you that same feel back of like wow okay now

the now the gloves are back off again once I take these things off and it's like super go time it's I mean it's so it's like you know a lot of it's psychological yeah like sprinting like you watch the the sprint Netflix show and you kind of get an idea of like wow 80 to 99% of this is mental everybody's ready to go and it's just who is ready to like maximum effort for that exact amount of time at the right time. Right. And like all those things build up into that psych. Yeah.

That's so cool. That's really cool. I'm shaving down for St. George, fully shaven down. Yeah, I mean, I still do this. I don't like work very hard on keeping my legs shaved kind of with that in the back of my mind. Certainly not my arms or anything, anything else because it's a cool, fun feeling. Yeah.

Wait, so, Paul, are you doing arms too? No, that's crazy. I mean, I do that for Arrow on the bike. You do, Eric, huh? Yeah. Yeah, I don't need to be Just to get that, just like tapping that same old swim team, like I'm doing something special for race day. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

Even if it's placebo, you're like, nope, I did the things and I'm going to be faster now. Going through the process of getting ready for battle. The thing is when your arm hairs grow back in, it's all prickly on it, like, no, thank you. Yeah, I guess that's true. That is just keep my super fine. You can't even barely say it. Yeah, like women is like less of a thing. I hate the feeling of hair growing back on my legs.

I really don't like it. But yeah, do what you got to do what you got to do. Okay, let's move on to questions. And actually, the first question isn't a question. It's an update, which I'm sure if you listen to the podcast, it will have been a question that you will not have forgotten. We have an update from Jesse, who he wrote in about some saddle discomfort potentially

that was leading to penile numbness. So we have an update and kind of a surprising update. Hey, tripod crew, penile numbness guy here. Checking back in, I sent in a question a few weeks ago, and I'm happy to report that the issue is pretty much resolved. Turns out switching to shorter cranks from 170 to 160 based on my bike fit made a big difference. Maybe it's the increased cadence, who knows, but the numbness is gone. What do you make of this? I'm shocked that that made the difference.

Did we suggest that? We did not. No. I don't know, when you have shorter length, shorter crank length, your hip flexes are flexing less. So maybe there's more blood flow into your crotch because you're not constricting your angle between your hip flexors as much. Just seems so subtle. Or your back angle is just slightly different because of what Paula said. And like you were pinching something in your nerve in your lower back.

I mean, the body is crazy. I'm really glad that you figured it out, though. That's really awesome. Yeah. You know what? We should, like in the future, if we identify someone like this that is a great character, like this should be like a call follow-up. Yeah.

You're like this should be like a new character on the podcast. So we just like checking with occasionally like, you know, recurring special guests on Seinfeld. Yeah. It's like these kids are going to be like, Daddy, what were you known for? Well, when I was younger, I wrote into a podcast. Yeah, exactly. We're happy for you, Jesse. so happy for you.

That's, I mean, that's borderline life-changing, I would venture to say. It might literally be life-changing as in, are you able to give life or not? Okay, first real question here is from Sydney. Hi, TTR. This question is for each of you to answer individually. In your opinion, who has the advantage in triathlon? Someone with only a swimming background, someone with only a cycling background, or someone with only a running background. I'm curious. Love the podcast. Thanks for being entertaining.

Sydney. All right, Paula, what do you think? I think this depends a little bit on what discipline in trathlon you're doing. If it's short course Olympic distance racing, having a swimming background hands down is not only the best, but almost essential. Yeah, if the options of having a bike and a run background are you've never, ever swam before, 100% the swim. You're not even going to be in the picture. And I would actually say the same for long course. middle distance these days. And I think what makes really good triathletes like world class athletes now are swimmers who do have the ability to find the technique on the run and then they just have the engine from swimming to be really powerful cyclists. Because like it's it's really hard to come from

a deficit in the swim increasingly now because the whole race is getting so much faster. Yeah. The one other like potential, you know, if you have a lot of, it both ways. I think people who have, who grew up doing a little bit of swimming from like the ages of six to ten and then became runners. Yes, that's the answer. That's the Holy Grail. Yeah, I would say almost in 70.3, T-100, even Iron Man, you're going to win more races if you have a running background because you just always have that in your arsenal. Cycling, I think you're just aerobically, you can be good at it. But swimming and learning the technique is obviously very challenging. but if you're a really fast world-class runner who swam a bit swimming lessons,

summer club as a kid, that's really the gold standard for middle distance. Exactly how I feel even as an amateur, same exact things. I've seen a lot of, I guess, you know, Camerf comes from rowing and a ton of stuff, but it's pretty rare that like a professional cyclist comes over to triathlon and has a lot of success. They just, like, triathons, triathletes. are seen as such losers by most of the cycling community. It's like, that's just not a thing that anybody wants to do. No, but there has been a few pro-triacists who have transferred over.

And they either can't swim or they can't run off the bike at all or they just realize that doing an Ironman distance bike ride is so much different than even doing like a six-hour road race or a 40-minute time trial like cyclists are used to. Like being in the time trial position for four plus hours is so foreign to a lot of pro cyclists. So it's definitely a learning curve if you're coming from that discipline. And even really good runners, when they have to bike first, their run takes such a hit from that. That doesn't even work that well. Yeah, but for some reason, I'd also say that starting as a kid as a swim bike run triathlet,

that also doesn't work for some reason. So you're doomed no matter what. I don't know. I guess these days there's some programs where you can grow up as a I think it works in other countries. Like the U.S. just happens, but hasn't been able to figure it out. I think that might just have to do with our collegiate program where there are run teams and there are swim teams. And if you're like a really good at one of those individual sports, it's very easy to get pulled into just running or pulled into just swimming. Versus just like continuing to fulfill your destiny as a triath.

But then USAT goes and scouts those people like Katie Zaffaris, who ran in college, had a swimming background a little bit. Summer Cook. And then she's an Olympic medalist. So that is a really interesting way to pull out the best short course athletes is who's a runner, collegially, who can swim? Or who's a swimmer, who can run? What Eric said, I think is actually the idea, which is you did swim as a kid and then became a runner. I think that's the ultimate origin story for the best athlete. Yeah.

Who's that guy? He was an ITU athlete, extremely good runner. Lucas, something. Lucas Ferris Bekus. Yeah, he was like all the hype because he was one of the best. runners in the nation. But for some reason, he just couldn't get all three together really well. He was, I think, crushed by expectation. I spent some time rooming with him and I think the mental pressure on someone who is lauded to be the next great thing in both running and in triathlon,

that was a little bit much. That's the other thing too with this collegiate program is it's like, okay, you got like one or two years to figure it out and prove that your world class at this. when really developing as a triathlet could take 10 years to be the best and you can't do that without funding and support for those 10 years. It just spits a lot of people out along the way unfortunately through either injury or burnout

or just mentally unable to handle what it takes to get to the point that you're truly capable of. I don't know. It's a good question though. Okay, next question here is from Connor. Hi, Eric, Paul, Nick, and Flynn. Flynn's not here, by the way.

Flynn is in bend with friends, right? Yeah, it was a toss-up whether to bring him or not, and two of our really good friends needed a place to stay for a week that just magically. They're getting a kitchen run-o. So I magically lined up with them being able to live at our house, watch our dog. And Eric drove so we could have brought Flynn, but it's going to be really hot this week. And I think, as I woke up this morning to not a whining dog, I was like, wow, this is nice. Yeah, of course. Continuing on with Conner's question, thanks for making my runs and rides fun and educating me every week. Question or advice for the bike.

I live in a city that is terrible for biking. I can drive 10 to 20 minutes out for a good spot, but leaving right from the door is bumpy, frustrating, and dangerous. I'm doing Lake Placid, and I really want to spend more time outside practicing hills. I can make time on the weekend long rides to drive hilly safe rides, but for my two to three rides during the week, it's just not feasible.

I work 7.30 to 4, and we're waking up at 4 to 4.30 in the morning, just to ride the bike outside. I don't mind doing this every now and then, but I value my sleep for recovery. Do you think just simulating hills on my Zwift as well as my weekend rides will suffice for my training? Thanks for the input.

It's funny, this is Connor. It's funny because I feel like there's two different things here. It's like, okay, one, can I mentally do that? And then two, is it physically sufficient? Yeah, 100% is physically sufficient and it's why Zwift exists. Yeah. to be honest. Like ultimately simulating a hill, I guess, is just going a little harder. And going uphill hard at, let's just say 300 watts, going up a hill is significantly easier for 99% of people than going 300 watts on flat and is 10 times easier than going 300 watts on the trainer. But you get the same physiological benefit if you're doing 300 watts in any of those situations. You're just, you got the rocky road in terms of mental toll. Well, I think the thing about

Swift, if you're not using Erg mode, is that you are riding essentially a course where the trainer's replicating the hills. So you can shift, you can learn to ride the bike on a hilly way. The only thing you're not getting in this situation is technical practice, obviously, but that can come on your weekend rides. So I think for people that live in a city where it's really hard to access safe riding, this is the perfect situation is the efficiency of Zwift is unmatched on your bike within 10 minutes of waking up. You can ride for the maximum amount of time. You're not driving. And it's a really concise way to get an efficient workout. And then on the weekend, I would focus more than on the technical aspect of riding and making sure that you're not just doing hill repeats,

but riding the downhills really well, riding in your TT bars, getting used to what it'll be like to be in that position for three, four, five hours in Lake Placid. I think for your swift rides, you deserve to get yourself that kicker, that Wahu kicker climb thing that goes, I haven't used it, but that could be just another little X factor enjoyability thing that will give you the hill feel. And I will also say that on Zwift, you can, like, do you guys agree with this statement that maybe a two hour ride on Zwift is equivalent to like a two and a half hour outdoor ride? Because you're not hosting. Depending on how you ride, it could be like two hours to three hours. From me here, it's like, it's like,

like two to three because of the amount of coasting you're doing on the downhills and like stopping to wait for friends or whatever. Yeah, so the efficiency again is just so much, so much better. But I wouldn't say that Zwifting should completely replace outdoor riding. And because you have the opportunity to go on the weekends, I think you're fine. But a thing that you could pay attention to is the kilojoules, which we've talked about that before. Like just without like tracking it intentionally, look at how many kilojoules you burned during a two-hour

ride indoors versus your long ride on the weekend. And I bet you'll be pretty shocked at. Like how much time you kind of like soft pedal or coast when you're outside? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can look at your your power, um, distribution. Like on my long rides, I've been told to like, don't coast. Don't let the chain go slack. Like always have tension on it, which is like what I do on the trainer. But when I'm outside, I spend like in a four hour ride an hour below 150 watts. And I don't feel like I do. I feel like I'm pushing power the whole time. But like when you corner, when you descend, when you get on Eric's wheel, there's these tiny micro moments where you're not peddling. And that completely adds up over four hours to quite a lot of time.

Yeah. And I have to believe that that makes a big difference in your, like, physiology to never go below that for a long ride like that. And what Paul is talking about to on training peaks is called variability index. And like a 1.00 would mean that. you were very consistent, and the further away from one it is, the more variable your ride was. Oh, I didn't even know that. Yeah, yeah. Training peaks with Nick.

Training peaks with Nick. Training tips with Nick. Yeah, don't take any tips from me. But I do know training pigs pretty well. Okay, next question is from Joe. I get a three-week sabbatical from the job next year, and I get to spend two weeks with family and one week getting some extra epic training in, especially on the bike or open water. Personally, I'll have more fun if I don't do a lot of running, L-O-L.

Yes, I get it, Joe. Even though traveling for running to me has been so fun lately. Anyway, I may be by myself, but of course hoping to get a few friends or family to join. The question is, where do I go? Are there specific cities, regions, or routes you'd recommend? Probably looking at late March, 26, and I don't want to travel outside North America. So that limits where I can go. I would definitely like some nice weather.

No Nemo Bay for me. Yeah, that's a bit far. Wait, so he wants to go in late March to somewhere where he can ride his bike. Yes. So you're talking like... Pretty limited options there. Yeah. It's going to be southwest.

Redosio, New Mexico. I was going to say, Malibu. Like Thousand Oaks, Malibu, Ventura, you'd be driving just a little bit south to get to the Santa Monica Mountains.

But basically getting into the Santa Monica Mountains, I think that can't be beat. That's the only answer, actually. Everything else sucks. I mean, if you like Tucson, Tucson's great. Yeah, if you really like,

and that kind of thing. It's not great, unless you like TT biking. Which is, I only have a road bike and a tri-bike, so no trails, is what Joe said. Yeah, it's really the only option, Southern California. Yeah. I mean, like, Tucson gives you sun and then there's the shootout ride, but I don't think that it's going to check the box of, like, cool, you know, exciting, interesting riding in the way that is California.

And not only that, but the life, the things outside of when you're riding your bike, it's just cool vibes in California. I wonder, have you guys written in Marin County? It's north of San Francisco? No, but that's where... Is that not too far south to start getting rainy? Too far north? Yeah.

I mean, it's just constantly kind of cold and foggy there, but I think people still ride in March very much. So I don't know, I've never actually written it, but that's where... I think Kate Courtney lives there. Yeah. I guess it kind of depends, like, what is your tolerance for chill? You know, even in Santa Monica, you're going to be putting on like a jacket a lot of days.

You're not going to be freezing, but it's not like shorts and shirt all the time. Right. Okay, but his criteria are quite strict here. So his availability is quite narrow. You want March, hot, road, but it's just, there's not a lot of options. I do think ideally is right here for that time of year for that kind of writing. Just go, just stay with Nick. He's got it with a pilot coach right behind him right now.

I'm friendly. I don't snore either, so we can snuggle. Okay, and then our last question here, which, by the way, we had to keep this podcast kind of compact because Paula has many obligations today. But we wanted to get one in before the race. Many obligations. I had two workouts. Two workouts. You've got to do media.

You got to take photos. You're kissing babies. There's a lot of things you got to do. It's true. I haven't sat down all day. Okay. This one is from Ava. It's from Vancouver, BC.

Hi, Tripod. My name is Ava. And I have a question about sight. cycling commuting and its impact on triathlon training. For reference, I have been consistently commuting 80 to 150 kilometers per week the past five years. That's a lot. The past five years and I've been training for triathlons in the past four. Cycling is my strongest discipline and I have always assumed that commuting made me a stronger athlete.

I'm currently training for Ironman, Wisconsin. Hope to see you there, Nick. I will absolutely see you there. I think it's Ava. I think it's Ava. Ava. I'm sorry. I don't know these names. I've never known an Ava in my life. And now I'm wondering if it's possible that the commuting is junk miles on top of my 18-hour

training weeks. So this person is doing an 18-hour training week and then commuting 80 to 150K per week. That's a ton. I love commuting and don't plan on giving it up, but I was just curious about what your guys take is on the positive end or negative impact it has on training. Thanks so much for all you do for the triathlon community. My training buddies and I love to debrief the pod every Thursday. It's truly a highlight of our week, Ava.

what do you guys think do we have does she provide any details on how long the commute is like is this coming in 20 minutes at a time 80 to 100 a week and if she works five days a week and she's going there and back so break that up by 10 so she's right it's 10k there 10k back yeah 15k she well 80 to 150 per week and i don't understand how it's that variable that's almost double yeah i would say if you're taking like detours maybe just go straight home but i honestly don't see a problem with it. I don't think this is going to have that big of an impact, no. I think it, like, instinctually, I feel like it would have a positive impact. Same. Yeah. I might like take that into account a little bit just like with your total volume, like count that in some degree in your

total volume. But I'd say it's a little bit like walking though. Like you're not including that in your training peaks. Riding a bike. Riding a bike. Riding a bike can be as easy as walking and if you're looking at heart rate. This, what this reminds me of is something Paula, you mentioned a few weeks ago on the podcast about what is worth putting your time into and like driving to the pool five times a week and how much time that takes and how much maybe that time would be better spent running more or biking more. So in this is kind of from the different perspective, you're already doing 150K of kind of like low intensity volume on the bike. So then if you have a whatever on your schedule, a four hour bike on Saturday and a five hour bike on Sunday, maybe you decrease those

and replace them with like some more running or something like that to like bring that up a little more if you're already a strong cyclist. You know, I don't know. Like you still got to have a long ride. Like doing 10 times 20 minutes of a ride. I agree. I don't think that the communing is giving you any

meaningful physiological boost. But think of the alternative is sitting in a car. That could be negative for 20 or 30 minutes. That is worse for your body. Like I think that spinning on a bike to work back, it's good for your brain. If we could all do this, I think we'd all be healthier and happier. Yeah. And if you live in a place where you can do it, the weather is, you know, suitable to do this. And I also think that commuting on a bicycle makes you a way better bike handler. Of course.

And being able to just have situational awareness and obstacles and you're not commuting on like an empty country road on your time trial bike. You're probably in a city where there's things. to look out for. So I think we'd all be better off if we could do a little bit of biking. So unanimously, we all love it. We all agree. Go for it. I think the only thing you can do better is just run commute. I mean, there's your run volume done for the week. So I was just at coffee and this woman started talking to us who used to check either the power or the water meters and houses to report them each week. I don't know if that's still done manually now, but there's like a meter on the side of your house, right? And she and apparently a lot of her coworkers used to run them.

Like she would be, like they were all runners and they would have like 180 houses that they had to check the meters for. And she would run from house to house. Anyway, she stopped and then recently saw a guy doing it at her house and she was asked like, oh, do you guys still run? And the guy said, no, we're not allowed to run anymore. Wow. But she was like, yeah. Like if you're in the middle of a workout, you're not doing your best work maybe. Right.

They were just afraid of somebody like keeling over or tripping. That's what I thought. I thought it was like a lawsuit. But Paula maybe is right. She's like they were, people weren't doing their job well because they were prioritizing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

When I was younger, well, at least in my neighborhood in Eminton, the post office lady would walk from door to door. Now I like when I see the post office in Ben, they're driving these cars. But I think that would be a fantastic job as well, like walking door to door to put mail in each box. Totally.

So good for your, if I had to pick a job, that might be high up there. Yeah, agree. I mean, like, one of the, such a horrible thing in modern society is sitting at a desk all day. And so if you can do your job and be walking outside at the same time, that's a pretty great hack. Yeah, even UPS drivers, like, jumping out of the truck in and out carrying heavy stuff. Oh, totally. All of these, like, really engaging and physical jobs, like, they're definitely better for overall happiness, I'd say. Yeah, great. Well, Ava, keep doing those crazy commuter weeks and 18-hour training weeks.

She said she lives in Vancouver. That's like the coolest place to commute. I think that's... It'd be fun. The weather's good. But how can you commute that? Is it that big that you can commute 10K? Oh, it is huge. Okay, yeah. You could commute 10K in St. George. Big city. I guess 10K is not that much, actually. It's like six miles.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, cool. Okay, well, that's what we got. this week. Guys, I'm going to be there. I'm coming on Thursday. I'm driving up. We're going to have a great time. 48-hour countdown.

We got the float coach ready for you and the claw tub ready for our soaking. Oh, my gosh. The bubble bath. The bubble bath. Yeah. If you're in St. George, come say hi to us. Come to the run if you can. If you can't, then just come say hi.

We'll be around. We'll be around. But we're not going to do a little van pop-up or anything like that. No. No, we had, as I am filming Paula's experience for Iron Man, and this race came up really quickly, and Paula's racing and Nick is racing. We, that had to go, we're not doing that this time.

Yeah, but the run is going to be, the run is going to kind of take place to that. After Oceanside, where you guys had the film, that was so all in on that type of thing, that this feels a lot more relaxed. Not that the film was a negative thing. It was super fun, but it definitely took a lot of the, mental energy from all three of us.

So this will be a little more chill. Yeah. It's not to say we won't do stuff like that in the future, but this race just came up quick after Oceanside. So keeping it low key. Nice. Wonderful. Well, we will be doing a little come down from the race for next week. A little race recap from Paula.

And God, we hope everyone has such a great race this week. Oh, go watch the. the Ironman next video series on Paula. It's Superfire. I also reveal my new coach. On the Iron Man YouTube channel. I did see that because you have the name of the coach and the Vimeo upload that I got a notification of, Eric. Wait, the name of the coach is not in the title, right?

It's in the Vimeo title. It's a long story, but yeah. It's private right now, Paula. Please make sure that that's not in the title of the video. No, it's not. Don't worry. Don't worry. It's a long story. I'll save that for another day.

Yes, we'll save it for another day. You guys have fun. We'll talk to you guys soon. Okay, see you later next. Later. Bye.