That Triathlon Life Podcast - Finding confidence on a triathlon bike, picking the right trail for a run workout, and more!

Episode Date: May 31, 2025

This week, Paula was swamped with pre-race obligations for T100 San Francisco, so Eric and Nick held down the fort on their own. After a good old-fashioned catch-up, we dove into your listener-submitted questions. This week we discussed:Changing a rear wheel without getting bike grease on your handsPicking trails for specific types of run workoutsApproaching body composition and performance in triathlonFeeling secure and safe on a triathlon bikeThe ethics of photographing pros at racesWardrobe advice for brick runsHow to make triathlons more environmentally friendlyA big thank you to our podcast supporters who keep the podcast alive! To submit a question for the podcast and to become a podcast supporter, head over to ThatTriathlonLife.com/podcast

Hey, everyone. We recorded this podcast you're about to hear on Friday before Paula's T-100 race. But for a series of reasons, it didn't come out on Friday, even though we allude to that many times during the podcast. So I just don't want anyone to be too confused. There's still a lot of great stuff in there, but we do talk about it as if the race is happening tomorrow. And the race has already happened. Today's Monday. So enjoy, but just wanted to clear that up. It's going on, everybody. Welcome to that trathlon. Life podcast. I'm Eric Loggerstrom. I'm Nick Goldston. And that is it. We don't have a Paula this time. Paula is busy handling all sorts of media obligations. She could not make it to the TTL media obligations. But this is T-100 San Francisco Race Week. So Nick and I are just taking a flyer, having a little bit of fun, and we'll keep you entertained should you choose to listen. We hope. Please let us know. We can handle all the criticism, but we thought this might be fun. So where are you, Eric? Are you in San Francisco or are you in Bend?

No, I am actually in San Francisco. I came down. I brought my bike and everything. My elbow is probably not fully cleared to be riding a bike on the San Francisco roads, but I thought it was worth the risk to go ride the course and preview some of the corners with Paula. And so far, I'm glad I did. It's really cool here. I feel like you're like Wolverine with how quickly you're healing. I think it's just a very interesting injury where, you know, the, so I broke my radial head. It's not like my arm was broken in half. The bone was not even broken in half. It was like a really big crack through the head of the bone, which is very painful. And there was a ton of swelling, but it's kind of there's just a couple of muscles that like attached to it in just the right way that if I like open a doorknob or like shake somebody's hand or, you know, honestly like grabbing a mountain bike candlebar and trying to apply.

the brakes, very uncomfortable, but a road bike I've discovered is actually not bad at all. So just like wrist orientation type of thing. Amazing. But yeah, I'm pretty much three weeks now since it got hurt. And my friend, Nate, who's an emergency doctor, said, you know, on the day that I broke, he's like, I probably wouldn't plan on being on your bike, at least your mountain bike for four weeks. And we're coming up on that date quickly. So I think this is about as great of.

injury experiences is I could have hoped for if one had to break a bone. We get so many questions on the podcast and we do sometimes address them directly, but we get so many questions about what to do when you're injured. And you, I've loved your philosophy about taking it as an opportunity to come back even stronger. Do you feel like this has been an example of that? Maybe a little bit, but it hasn't been that bad. Anyway, it's, you know, it's been a journey. Everybody's injury things and whatever, but it hasn't been as bad as it could be. So my biggest takeaway so far is that I need to do, like uphill walking on the treadmill is actually probably good year round. I think that's a good activation, leg strength, you know, hip mobility sort of a thing. So I'll be, I'll be keeping that going as much as I can.

Okay, good. And okay, let's talk about for a second here. You're down there. It seemed like you were just going to be there to, be the wonderful loving husband to Paula. But now, kind of last minute, there are now new responsibilities that have been sprung onto you. New shit has come to light. It has. It has. I actually was, I've been enjoying this a lot because I kind of decided I wasn't going to make a video about this. No one told me I had to.

I've done quite a few race videos lately. The one about Paula's race in St. George just came out. I'm pretty happy with it. So I brought one camera down here with one lens. Didn't bring my drone, didn't bring any of that stuff. And I've just been kind of enjoying taking a few pictures. But for the most part, this is the first time I've been here ever. I think that I wasn't trying to make some sort of content, long-term thing out of it.

And it's been nice to just kind of look around with my own eyes and not be simultaneously crafting a story or being stressed about that. but but yeah a couple hours ago literally and today's Friday by the way we're putting this out today but this this happened a couple hours ago yeah T100 reaches out

and I was like hey it would be awesome if you were on the broadcast for like 45 minutes in the morning and then 45 minutes near the end of the race which I'm like can you explain what that even means?

And they want me to actually come on there and be the second person to the guy's name is Alex, who has the fantastic voice of the T-100. And I don't know, like, offer commentary and thoughts as one who's done the race and one who is watching their significant other race. And I, you know, like I know who plenty of the people are in the T-100. And I've done Alcatraz, obviously. but there's so many new names. Just before we got on the call here,

I've been frantically scrolling through this commentary broadcaster info pack and try to memorize who's got a red cap and a blue cap and scraping up on some of the younger athletes coming in from ITU racing and how they might impact the race and all that stuff. I'm a little bit terrified, to be honest. I feel like a lot of us have wondered

what kind of information commentators have, how much they're doing their own research, how much whoever is in charge of the broadcast is informing them. So I think it's going to be really interesting to see that firsthand for you and then for you to report back. But from that packet,

what do you see there that you think is surprising to you? Because I think if it's surprising to you, it's probably surprising to us. I don't think there's anything that's surprising here, but there's just a lot of different, like, bullet points of keep in mind that, so here's like bullet point number one in the engagement and drama category. Maintain jeopardy. Keep the audience engaged by avoiding prematurely calling the outcome.

Right, right, right. You know, highlight potential twists and uncertainty. So rather than just being like, yeah, I'm pretty sure Yon's going to win. Right, right, right. In the first 20 minutes, you know, you're like, well, you never know, and Vincent Louis could. And just like throwing out all these potential storylines. which, you know, you think about it and you're like, oh, yeah, obviously. But then there's like 35 of these bullet points and mentioning that, what's something else in here,

discuss athletes' emotional ties to the sport and their peers, highlight personal stories, provide in-depth analysis of strategies, tell engaging stories beyond the race, maintain high energy and then they've got all these things of like here are bullet points on what the T-100 is. There's 20 men and 20 women. Athletes will score points at each race.

There's more points available at the World Championship final than the other ones. And here's the exact breakdown for that. And I don't know. This is like a 15-page document. I'm just kind of looking at the first page right now. The value you're going to bring into this is not so much this like statistics,

stick-driven athlete-to-the-sport connection thing. I think what's going to... I mean, I think Alex will probably have that covered, the other commentator. I think what you're going to bring to this is you've won this race twice as a pro. It wasn't this exact course. It wasn't the T-100 course,

but by most metrics, it's the same course. And actually, do you know how this differs from the traditional escape from Alcatraz course that you raced so many times? Yeah, yeah, of course. At least last year, to, I don't know, be safe with the currents and the broadcast timeline and everything, they dropped the athletes off, like, kind of in the middle of what they call the river, so that the swim ended up being quite short.

There was less of a component of how, you know, directly across this river of water that's leaving, you know, the bay underneath the Golden Gate Bridge, like how short. of an angle you're going to take across that. That's the thing that goes on in the regular race, but in the T-100, at least last year, that wasn't so much of a factor. And then the bike course, they do about a third of the bike course,

but they do it like six times, loop, loop, loop. And then the run course, they do the first sixth, maybe, of the run course. It's completely flat. They don't do the sand ladder. You don't run up to like the goal.

Gate Bridge. Oh, they don't do the sand ladder. No. So it's, it's like very spectator friendly and made for an extremely exciting race last year, but it's, it's not like the escape from Alcatraz classic. Holy shit, there's so many different surfaces and components and everything to it. It's just kind of out of necessity of, like I said, I think making a broadcast and then having it be even remotely watchable, both on TV and in person. Yeah, yeah, okay, got it. So it actually is quite different. Very, very different.

I would say the bike course is the most similar thing in terms of the type of athlete that excels on the T-100 version of the course is pretty much the same athlete that would excel on the true escape from Alcatraz course. But, yes, in the T-100 version, the bike is significantly longer relative to the swim and the run. whereas in the classic course, it's the closest triathlon out there in terms of you have like an equal amount of time spent on each sport. So like on a challenging swim year,

the swim could take 35 minutes for the pros. The bike could take 43 minutes and then the run could take like 45 minutes, 43 minutes. So you have like this very equal amount of time spent at each one, which is kind of, it makes it very interesting. So if I'm just trying to like to like digest. just this for a second, I did not realize that even for the pros some years, that swim could take 35 minutes. That means for like an age grouper, that could be well over an hour.

I mean, it's the last year that I did it. They had people that were fully getting fully overshot the exit point because the current was so strong and we're like walking for a mile along Oh my gosh. Along the beach to get back to transition one. So I think that's like kind of the cool thing about this race and this venue is there are a lot of unknowns. And it's a little bit more of a you versus, I don't know, nature and the conditions and the unknowns, then plenty of triathons out there that are a little bit more reined in and predictable in terms of, you know, what you can expect. Yeah, yeah. So, okay, and this age group race still exists, right, for non-pros.

Yeah, yeah. So the pros are racing on Saturday, and the true Escape from Alcatraz classic experience is on Sunday for all the age groupers, amateurs, which is great. Oh, it's great. And for everyone who is curious, Eric, you did not have a video about the original time you won Escape from Alcatraz, right, where you beat Andy Potts. No. Well, actually, yeah, a little bit. There was like a post video, right? Yeah, yeah, it wasn't like so much of a race recap. The video that I made, it was actually called like Alcatraz the Homecoming or something like that. And it actually won or got nominated for like one of the Traathlon media pieces of the year back when Bob Abbott did like the Trathlon Red Carpet Awards. I just, I think it was like really nice and spiritual.

and I kind of expressed how like this was my first major result as a professional triathlet and I immediately went back home to Portland where I like grew up riding on the roads and I worked in the triathlon shop there for several years to save enough money to turn pro. And I was kind of like this feels like this cool culmination of what I've been working for for so long. And I was able to like kind of bring the excitement of that back home to my community. Yeah, I love that. That's, God, that's such a different time.

And if you see those videos, it's just, it's cool that videos can be a little time machine into the past in that sense. But you did make a version, a video for the second time that you won, only a few years ago. And that's still on YouTube too. So I highly recommend checking that out too, especially if you're interested in the original escape from Alcatraz course. That was very special one as well. So you ran yesterday and you went by the sand ladder. You sent me a picture of it too. And it, like, stirred some stuff up for you, right?

Yeah. Yeah. You know, that's the first time I've ever, I've never, like, run the sand ladder or most of the course, the back half. You know, you run around like Chrissy Field and stuff, like, when you're warming up pre-race. But then, like, running the whole sand ladder and the beach and up to the Golden Gate Bridge and everything. I really haven't done that except for in the race. So just, like, standing there and actually taking a picture of the sand ladder and standing at the top of it and looking back down. That's something that I've never.

done just because every time we get there, you're in the race and killing yourself. And you're pretty dead, right? Like, that's part of what makes the sand ladder hard is that you're, you're, you've squeezed the juice out by that point. And now you're trying to run up this brutal, sandy staircase. You're like five miles into the race at that point. And you've just done a mile out and back on the sand on the beach. And then you hit the sand ladder. And, and yeah, I can remember, I mean, like in my first race, I caught Josh Amber, like right at the top of the sand ladder.

I can remember, like, the exact spot that I pass him, and I can remember the exact spot where, like, I, my coach's voice popped into my head because Andy Potts was, like, a hundred meters up. And I can imagine him saying, like, you let that old man beat you. What the heck? And, like, me and, like, really, like, fired up at that moment and catching back up to Andy and ultimately being in the sprint finish. And I can remember other times where I really wished I was winning and I wasn't. And, you know, it's like so many moments that you attach to, like, run. by a certain tree or a crack on the ground or just like random stuff that you probably couldn't think of until you're there again. That's so true. The doing similar race or doing the same race multiple times, it does, you're in such a heightened state of arousal that you do attach pretty vivid memories to things like a crack in the pavement or that tree right there and what it does. That's something like with 70.3s, I try not to redo races too much.

much, but then there is that aspect of it that is, it's such a, such a potent, like, mental experience to, like, do a race again like that. Yeah. There's, like, there are certain tracks around San Diego that I don't think I could ever actually go back to because I have so many scarring experiences from just hurting so badly back when I was, like, trying to learn how to run better. And I was running with runners who were way better than me, or it was, like, 105 degrees or whatever it is.

That's part of why I haven't been on the track in so long, but like specific tracks or like there's certain roads that I've just had bad experiences on. And it's like really, really challenging to go there and just like keep a cool head or not bring that baggage in. So it goes both ways. I'd like to hear from you because you just kind of touched on something that I think a lot of people are curious about.

You know, you dug so deep on those tracks that now you have almost this like PTSD. experience with it, right? Do you think digging that deep in training is, is that beneficial? Or do you think that in general we should not be reaching that point in training? Or is it something that you do rarely? I think that, you know, that's something that's kind of a little bit between you and your coach and what the plan is and a little bit what you're training for.

but for me at the time i was training uh when i ever like speak about san diego days i was training for i too you racing trying to go to the olympics and i think a big part of that is being able to you're not in control of the dynamic in a race like that you kind of have to go with what the pack's doing and you just have to respond to moves and you're very often like going 11 out of 10 just hoping that things are going to cool off at some point so i think that is a very important stimulus but it's also it's very easy to do it too often. So I think like having that in mind, having that conversation with your coach and knowing like how often or what workouts are ones where like this is going to be a stretch and you just

need to like try to hang on. And then these ones over here do not go over that max heart rate or max pace or whatever because it's, man, and then a group dynamic like that, it's very easy to just blow yourself up like on a long timeline. Right. And if you were coaching an athlete and you were trying to navigate this. this exact situation of like going so, so hard that it's going to leave a mark in some way, are you more concerned about the market leaves physically, muscularly, skeletal,

or are you more concerned about the market leaves mentally? I would almost say mentally. I went into a lot of races in my younger days, like, with memories of some very, very hard workouts in mind thinking, I cannot imagine, like, combining the hardest swim I did this, block and the hardest bike and the hardest run and that's just like a crippling mental thought. Yes. Yes. Rather than going in with a little bit of a, I think I maybe could have done one more rep. I think I maybe had just a teeny bit more and now is the time to go find out where that true ceiling is. So I think like more often than not, that's usually you want to finish a workout

thinking like I probably could have done one more if I like absolutely have to instead of I failed one from the end. I remember you saying this about this kind of dawning realization, daunting and dawning realization that you would have at the beginning of races, thinking that the only way that this race could go the way you wanted to go is if you combined your best swim and then your best bike and then your best run workout from the past like month or two. And that's such a, that's just a scary kind of feeling to live inside of at the beginning of a race. Even if it is possible. you know right there's that race day magic but still like man it's gonna this is gonna hurt yeah and i'm gonna

need a miracle before we move on to questions because we are gonna do questions too uh paula is off doing stuff but i'm curious if you could kind of play the part of her for a second here because i'm sure people are going to be listening to this wishing that they heard her voice but i was curious if you could kind of tell us you know she's raced twice this year and won both races yeah yeah she's actually dropping off the bike right now, I think, and it's all ready to go. SRAM actually rushed in a new cassette for us at the last minute. We brought a 52-tooth, one-by for the front, and then a 1033 for the rear. And we realized that SRAM recently came out with a 10-36, which is like we went and pre-road

the course with that 1033, and she can make it up all the hills, but, you know, like the sixth time up, the steep switchbacky thing on the back half of the course after the turnaround, you don't want to be needing to stand up and go, like, for her, 310, 320 watts or something, if you're really tired and just be able to spin a little bit more. So we did get the 1036 brought in, put on new wax chain on there. And I don't know, I feel really good about that. And I think she's feeling better about it. Okay, that's great.

Yeah. But yeah, I mean, like she's had a great couple of races so far this year, but the T-100 is kind of, it's really true like a different race distance almost is how you've got to think of it. Like what has happened so far as a good indication of fitness, but not necessarily of like what could happen in this race. Also just this race is a complete anomaly in terms of like the type of rider that does well here. So I think it's, it's cool to be able to, like, like go into this one with a certain extent of like, wow, freaking anything could happen. It's so hard to like play out all these storylines in your head and get like super stressed about it one way or the other. And I also think there's just like the expectations from the public are like just anything could happen. So I think it's just it's not one of those ones where if like Taylor Nib doesn't win by 10 minutes, people are going to be like, oh my God, what happened? or if Ashley Gentle has a bad or Paula or like anybody, it's not one where you're like, well,

this means, this has like a huge bearing on 70.3 worlds or such and such. It's kind of a just cool one-off crazy thing. Right, right. Yeah, I wonder how much that is the consensus for triathlon fans as well. You know, because I think at the level of triathlon that you're in,

you have this understanding of that. but I'm curious if the average viewer also shares that. Because it does seem like this, like, kind of special one-off race. Yeah, I think so. I've always likened it to, like, the classics. Encycling. Incycling, you know?

It's like, just the first name that comes to mind. Like, we're watching the Lance Armstrong 30 for 30 documentary from years ago, and that guy, like, wins the Tour de Front seven times. But, like, he never won Perry Rube. like that wasn't even, that was just like a completely different thing. Yeah, yeah. But you've got the guys who focus on that who are like good at that

and they're really generally not going to win the tour de France and vice versa. So I feel like this race is a little bit like that where there's a different profile of person that might be able to shine on this day. And at least with the classic, you know, Alcatraz course especially. So it'll just, I think everybody just like sit back and watch this show for what it's,

worth and it should fire you up and like make you think what if in a slightly different way. Then it's like, oh, we know what everybody on a flat course on a TT bike, you know, it's almost feels like the predetermined outcome sometimes. Like it's so obvious. Yes. Yes. What's going to happen. Right.

Right. Right. Okay. Sweet. Well, I'm really excited to see what happens. And both the men's and the women's race, obviously I have this, we have this tie to the women's race. But I think the men's race too. And it's, it has, you know, for better or for worse, T-100 racing has become.

not just another kind of, not the same athletes as do 70.3 racing doing this T-100 thing. It is a different basket of athletes that are racing this. So it kind of feels like its own thing. So it'll be fun to watch. I hope if you're listening to this,

we're putting this out today, Friday. The race is tomorrow, Saturday. So you can definitely follow along, stream it, get excited. But now finally, almost 25 to 30 minutes into the podcast here. We're going to get to some questions. but I knew we would spend some time just chatting.

So you can submit questions to this podcast at Thattriathlonlife.com slash podcast. Eric and I are going to do the podcast this week ourselves, but next week, Paula will be back with us. We'll talk about her race, so you feel free to shoot in questions about the race or anything that involves Paula as well. And then I thought we could do something a little bit different with our little podcast supporter. Stay with me here, Eric. Eric's giving me a quizzical look. So I was just in Colorado until a couple days ago this weekend at Mountain Film, this film festival, which Eric and I actually in the past have had our film in a film in. And now we're hoping that look for things where you can find them will be in the festival next year.

Fingers crossed. It's not really up to us. They have to accept us. But I've heard that having your film in a festival once gives you a great shot. to have another one again because you're kind of like in there. You know, like they know you, especially since I was there last time.

You know, there's, anyway, hoping that we can get it in there next year. But I was going for a run while I was there and it was something I've always wanted to do. There's a cool gondola that takes you from the mountain, from telly ride town up to Mountain Village, and I've always wanted to run under the gondola. And I was doing that and as I come around a corner,

after just seeing this fox, this wild fox, which I was still thinking about, I hear, let's go TTL Nash. And I was like, what is this? So I shot my head up and there's a couple walking down the trail. And as I run closer, the guy was wearing a TTL trail hat, the same one I'm wearing right now, but the white and black version. And so I was, you know, I was so tickled by it. So I stopped and talked to them for a bit.

And it turns out that Lexi, who was there, and by the way, Lexi, of course, listens to the podcast. She was a day oneer from like YouTube and then started listening to the podcast. Lexi works for the North Face and she said that if we wanted to as kind of like a one-off thing, we could give away a pair of fancy trail running shoes on the podcast. So if... To ourselves? Well, she said that you and I could both have a pair and that we could give one away to a podcast supporter. So I know we're not sponsored by the North Face or anything like that,

but I think that could be a really fun kind of giveaway, a high-value giveaway for a podcast supporter. So if you're down, Eric, search for a name, use your random number skills to search for a name, and then we can give someone a free pair of shoes. And while you do that, well, first of all, does this sound okay? Are we going to get in trouble?

Is Paul going to yell at us for this? Yeah, maybe. I can handle it. Okay, great. You'll take the heat for that. So while you do that, I just want to describe what the podcast supporter thing is, if anyone's new here. If anyone's listening because they're dying to know about Paula's T-100 pre-race mindset, which unfortunately you're not getting exactly here. But the podcast supporters, if you listen to the podcast and you love the podcast, it's your way to kind of show appreciation for it, especially since we don't do ads on the podcast.

It's the only way that the podcast makes any money at all. So we really appreciate that. And then every once in a while, just as an appreciation, we will send out stuff to podcast supporters. This shoe thing is probably the highest value thing we've ever given away on the podcast. But Eric, did you find anyone? We got it. We got it. Okay.

Who is our lucky winner? Kirby, a macer. Amaker. Okay. Well, you know, Kirby, if you're listening, you know who you are, send us your shoe size and your address. and Lexi from North Face is going to hook it up. And shout out to Lexi for being so cool in having this idea. This was her idea.

So we appreciate it. And I got to run in them while I was there because they had North Face sponsored the Mountain Film event. And I liked them. Oh, that's how this happened. Yep. I like them. Yeah, there were a bunch of shoes that everyone could try on.

So I liked them a lot. I thought they felt great. Awesome. Well, yeah, if we can both get a pair, then looking forward to the long-term, bringing the long-term review. Just infinite value here. Yeah. Yeah, I'm expanding into different kinds of trail shoes.

So who knows? Okay, first question here. This is from David. Hey, tripod, not sure if this is a bike tech with Eric or just total noob town, but how do you avoid making a huge mess every time you take your bike on and off the trainer? I always end up with black grease all over my hands. Am I doing it wrong? Is there some tool I don't have, or is it just all a part of the deal?

Many thanks and best of luck this season, David. That's just touching the chain is getting yelled dirty. I feel like there's a simple solution to this, but if you're not willing to do that simple solution, is there another solution you could do? Simple. I'm trying to guess what you're thinking of. Gloves.

I was going to say just do waxed chain. Ah, okay. Yeah, yeah, you can do that. There is a way you have to be behind the bike in which you can basically hold the derailer and kind of cocked the derailer back and remove a wheel from the cassette that's on the kicker

without touching the chain. That's what I do. But yeah, having a wax chain will definitely just be a less dirty chain overall. I guess you could use gloves. But yeah, there's always its touch and go. There's going to be a chance you're going to be self-dural dirty there.

Do you think there's, is there, is it just me? Or are there different bikes that make it much easier or much harder to take the wheel on and off the bike. Yeah, I mean, if you have an older bike that has horizontal dropouts, that's just you're touching the chain. There's no way around that. But that's not many bikes these days.

Those are like old Cervillo's were like that. Yeah, yeah, got it. Okay, cool. Well, there you go, David. Easy. Also, just, I have to say, the wax chain thing, it's been really fun for me, and not very difficult to do,

so consider that as well. Next question here is from Pam. Hi, guys, my question is in regard to running trails and leg turnover for speed. I've always felt that developing speed means sometime on the roads or a track. As you all seem to have a preference for trails, do you consider terrain when doing your run workouts

relative to optimizing intervals and speed? Trails can vary so much regarding runability. Some are smooth and not too dissimilar. similar to roads, and many are rocky, winding, and more technically challenging. Thanks, Pam. Eric, you're just the ideal person to ask this, too, I feel like. Yes and no. I think that this is a little bit person specific, you know, for me, like doing workouts on trails versus on roads. Like, there's this, like, spiritual component to it of, like, yeah, obviously doing it on a more technical trail.

There's more going on than you're just trying to get the foot speed, but it feels pretty good to execute a workout well and be running fast in a situation and have that in the back of your mind. Like I ran really fast in a technical situation. I know that I can trust myself in the future in that situation and, you know, so on and so forth. But if that freaks you out and not having like ultimate control over the pace is going to make, like give you less confidence, then then stick to less.

technical trails for the hard runs. All that said, like, when I do, like, harder runs on any sort of an soft surface, anything other than asphalt, like, just be good to yourself with the expectation and with the variability of the pace. Like, you're going to be all over the place. And you have to lean a little bit more into the RPE aspect of it and go, you know what, this really feels like 530 or like whatever your pace is, even though the watch says 545, but I know inside of me, this is pretty equivalent to what 530 on the road feels like and, you know, and roll with it.

It's just going to be more all over the place. Do you worry about the difference in turnover speed and type when you're doing something that's more technical versus on flatground? I definitely think that running on a technical trail just naturally causes your cadence to increase. And for plenty of people, like having a lower loping cadence is something that they end up defaulting to when they're tired. So this could be like a little bit of a hack, just a natural way that it is going to increase. I thought the opposite, but you're right. I'm thinking like when I'm on a trail, I'm like I'm not kind of doing that full extension leg behind me thing because I need to be a little more. but you're right.

Like especially descending, I'm taking way more steps than I would if I were running similar effort on flat. And you're picking your feet up off the ground more. There's like there's a whole bunch of things and like running uphill. It's just like a very good thing for your form. I just,

I think that like allows you be a more dynamic athlete and there are plenty of 70.3 Ironman on road events that have hills in them. And if you do this a little bit in training, I think that's why Paula does really well at St. George. It's part of it. She runs, like, not as much trail as I do, but way more trail than most professional athletes do. And that just gives you like an extra little thing in your toolbox for races that are anything other than flat.

And even when she does run these like flat more specific sessions, she tries to do them on those amazing long dirt roads that you guys have around Bend. Yeah, yeah. That's as much for just like, you know, body preservation as much as much as anything. but I do, you know, I do tell her anytime she's like, this road is so slow. Like, yeah, but like the effort level is there and like this is making you strong. Like if you can run anywhere close to your pace on this, like St. George, Oceanside, those like freaking asphalt concrete roads are going to feel so fast. You're going to be ripping.

Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, thanks for the question, Pam. Next one here is from Ryan. Hey gang, calling in with a question, I love the calling, calling in with a question that I feel like could result in an eye roll, but it's relating to weight and body composition. To provide context, I weigh myself regularly to get long-term trends, and my weight and fat percentage, and Ryan says 20%, simply does not shift no matter how well I'm training. I've improved my diet by eating cleaner, less processed foods, but I'm seeing literally no improvement. My perspective is that carrying, fat percentage is just extra baggage, hence my focus to shift it. I'm racing my fastest times now

of the last four years since I've been doing triathlon, finishing near the top of my age group at local races. So after that long story, my question is, as pros and top age group athletes, do you pay as much attention to your body composition? And if so, what has worked for you in the past in becoming more lean? Ryan, man, there's so much here that I feel like is interesting and and deserving of kind of our attention. But where does your mind go, Eric? This is a very tricky, tough subject that I'm hesitant to get too into. I have personally struggled with body issues and eating issues in the past.

it is my strict personal policy to not be super attentive to what I'm eating. I know what good eating looks like. I know what healthy, you know, whole foods and good ingredients are, and I stick to that. But I'm not weighing anything. I'm not weighing myself. I'm doing my best to not look in the mirror that often and attach how I look, you know, or a number on a scale to my performance or who I am as an athlete. and I focus entirely on, am I stronger?

Am I putting up better power numbers? Am I running faster? Am I swimming faster? That is what matters. Like, yes, there is, you know, one can arrive at the conclusion of, well, if all things considered were the same, I had the exact same powers I did yesterday, today, and I'm 10 pounds lighter today, than power weight ratio.

Amazing. Like, I'm just faster. It's free speed or something. But it doesn't always work that way. everybody's bodies differently, your natural set point might be 20% body fat. Your freaking body fat calculator could be wrong. Your, et cetera, there are so many elements to this. And I think like looking at like Alex Yee next to Christian Bloom felt, they're both running

super freaking fast, they're biking really fast, they're swimming the same speed. They look like two completely different people. And if Christian just looked like Alex tomorrow, he would probably be in the hospital. And if Alex looked like Christian tomorrow, like that's just probably not possibly doesn't have the ability to put on that much muscle mass. So like as much as, you know, I just like, I'm not going to go down the route of like what you should do or, you know, how, you know, focused on it you should be. It's just I think everybody's different and focus should be on being faster and stronger. And I think your body generally will figure out where it's fastest natural. that point is for the things that you are asking it to do.

I want to add to that with my own experience and say that I was in a relationship with someone who was a dietitian who dealt specifically with very often women who had eating disorders. And we talked a lot about what is the healthy mindset? Like what leads to a strong, fast, healthy, both mentally and physically athlete? and I don't think there is any better way than the way you just said it. I mean, I know that you're, the way that you experience this and the rules that you've given to yourself are at least in part a reaction to the disease that you had with it. But I think maybe not by coincidence, the way that you just described it is the way.

That is the best way, regardless of if you've had a problem in the past or not, or even if you are Ryan here just trying to optimize body composition for performance. It is not being obsessed with the weight, not weighing things, prioritizing whole foods, great foods that can fuel you well, working hard in training, fueling your training well, and letting your body do all that other work. It will find the fastest combination of muscle and fat or whatever you need to be the best athlete you can be. and I love the Alex E. Christian Blumenfeld example because they're both top, top, top world-class athletes,

and they look nothing like each other. Yeah. By the way, the body fat percentage stuff from scales is so inaccurate. I would absolutely pay no attention to that metric at all. But even the weight is kind of, it can mislead you, and if you're making progress or not, so I personally would not pay attention to that. And I guarantee you, Ryan,

if you're getting the best results you've seen in the past four, years. Like, this is, this is fantastic. Keep doing it. You know, it's working. Is that not the goal? Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, well said, Eric, I just, I couldn't agree more with which, with everything you just said. Next question here is from Patrick. Hey, tripod, thanks for all the high quality content you all put out. Super inspiring. I know we're supposed to ride as much as possible in the arrow bars, but sometimes in crosswinds or on super quick descents, I feel the need to pop up into the base bars without a true hood, like on road bikes, I often find myself overgripping for fear of going off the front of the bike. This has led to some hand soreness and fatigue that can be a problem for longer rides in bad weather conditions.

I've actually tilted my base bars up a bit to give some back pressure when in a more upright position. Any tips or mods to the base bars to help with this, or am I alone in this problem? Thanks, Patrick. Well, you're definitely not alone in this problem, but Eric, do you have any ideas for that? Oh, yeah. The only thing that I've seen, I don't know what it's called, actually, but there's this like 3D printed sort of like device, I don't even know how to call it, like a sleeve that you can put on your base bars that gives you a little bit of a nub that's like in front,

like between your hand and the brake lever so that there's at least something to push up against. I don't know. I'll try to find a link before we put this out so we can put something in the description. But Seth Ryder had it on his bike in Oceanside, and that's the only thing that I've seen lately. Back in the day, felt made a version of this that was like a rubber grip that also had like a nub

that could just give you something to at least push against so you didn't feel like you were going to slide off the front. Yeah. But otherwise, that's just, that's a little bit of the crappiness of a T-T bike. They were not designed to be comfortable or ridden for any length of time in the base bar, unfortunately. Yeah, and is this something that you ever personally worry about? No.

I'm pretty good at riding in the bars in all scenarios and inclement weather and everything. The only time I've ever been scared of this is like on this course and this race where it can be pouring rain. And you're descending quickly and need to make quick turns. and I've had a brake lever fully rattle loose in this race before to where I had to like hold it with my index finger into the end of the bar. Yeah. Yeah. While then trying to like actually operate it with my ring finger. Right. So like this is pretty much the only race that I'm ever concerned about like I'm going to slide off the bars.

But Xtera is a different story. Your hands are so wet and sweaty in an Xtera and it is like holding onto that bar you have. it is like your entire lifeline and you cannot lose grip. You know, I'm thinking of some of the extreme Ironman stuff that's like Padigan Man or I have, because those

oftentimes are done on a TT bike unlike exteris. And so I could see that being an even better use case for that nub that you're talking about. Yeah. I mean, another thing that you can try if you can't find that thing is I have actually used mountain bike grips

before put them on my base bar. And you want to look for one that's designed to be ridden with bare hands rather than than mountain bike gloves because those are a little bit stickier and stuff. And it's a bit of a process to cut them in half and you slide them on there and you have to run your brake lines and stuff. But that might be something to consider. Would you ever do, you know, some people do like grip tape, skateboard grip tape? Would you ever do something like that?

I mean, I did that. I think the first time that I raised Alcatraz I had grip tape. on my base bars and that is zero percent comfort thing. That hurts. That's just like straight up uncomfortable if you're riding on that for like one minute at a time. But it's, you're not going to lose grip. Your hands are also going to be cut up. But don't lose grip, but it beats the shit out of you.

Yeah, yeah. Okay, great. Thank you. Next one here is from Joseph. Hey, TTL. I live in Vancouver and many of us are excited for the T-100 coming up soon. My question is about taking photos at races. What is a protocol for taking photos of pros at races as an average spectator?

I'm hoping to just take photos for fun and share any good shots with people for free, but I'm not sure what the rules are around this. I know listening to another podcast that Talbot got in trouble early in his career taking photos at the wrong place and time. Joseph, so do you know what he's talking about with Talbot here? Because Talbot has a way of getting himself into trouble very often. So I'm not surprised, but I've never heard, or I just can't really think of a time that you're not supposed to, other than like changing. I don't know.

Can you think of something? When you're somewhere where you're not allowed to be. That is what Talbot's experience has been. I see. He doesn't have a past to be in transition or something. So there's two, yeah, two different things. One, you don't have a past to be. where you are.

And two is like, if you take a media pass from Ironman or whoever, and then you take those photos and then you give those away for free to certain, like there are rules once you take a media pass about where you're allowed to go, who gets to use the photos, what credit has to be. It's definitely relaxed a bit now these days. I think Iron Man has a much more holistic view about their media of like a rising tide carries all ships and just the more pictures that come out from Ironman the better. But yeah, as soon as you put on like that media singlet, you are not playing in

the same rules as just somebody who's standing on the side of the road taking a picture. So yeah, anyway, if you're, if you want to go take pictures of the pros and give pictures of the pros or anybody for that matter at a race, you're totally welcome to. You just, you can't go places that you're not allowed to go, that anybody isn't allowed to go. Yeah. you're not going to get to stand right behind the finish line. Like that is a special place, for example. Right. And Joseph, you know, I have a friend, and there's several people who do this,

who take pictures at races and then sell them to pros and sell them to age groupers. I don't know if that's technically allowed, but it's certainly something that happens very often. You just, like Eric said, you just can't, you know, there's certain places you're not allowed to go, but those places are obvious, right, Eric? It's like transition, finish line, start line. Yeah, you'd have to be hopping about. barrier somewhere. Right.

That's the nice thing about our sport. This is pretty wide open. Right, right. No, shoot some pictures, Joseph. Next question here is from Ashley. When you run off the bike, do you change into running shorts? Do you just wear an old tri-kit? Just running your bike shorts.

This is, I'm assuming that Ashley's talking about in training here. I'm not sure how to approach this. If I'm not riding from my house, I would have to change in a parking lot. In the past, I've biked with spandex shorts, under my bike shorts so I can just take the padded shorts off, change my shoes, and go. But I'm not sure that's the right answer either. Thanks, Ashley.

I think we're going to, I think just different people have different preferences for this. But Eric, what do you do? And I have several follow-up questions. Well, first thing you've got to do is you got to get yourself a sprinter van that has all of your clothes and all the things that you might need. And you stand up in there and change. And it's pretty dreamy. Just bring your apartment with you to all break workouts.

Yeah. But I will, man, like the only time that I will run in bib shorts in like a transition workout or the only time that I have done that is if it specifically says on the thing like fast transition. And I'm running for usually Paula would ride in like fast transition and then like five minutes at race pace and five minutes cool down. So a maximum of 10 minutes. If it's like a 30 minute run off the bike, then I'm going to take that. couple of minutes that it takes to either towel change or run inside the house and put on some actual running shorts for sure. Right. Right. Yeah. My rule is 15 minutes or less. I will do it in my bibs. But anything over 15 minutes, I'm going to change because I'm afraid of some kind of chafing

issue. Yeah. Just like get it all set up like a regular transition zone so you know like where your run shorts are and what your plan is and everything so you can do it quickly. But at the end of the day, even in a 70.3 and you're trying to transition really quickly, the time from when you, like, jump off your bike to the time that you run back out of transition can be like four minutes. And just like if you give yourself a four minute timer and you're changing at your car, like that's kind of a long time. So I think we're still an applicable time frame here. So this is this is what I wanted to ask you. And this is not going to paint me in a great light. But I often, when I come back from a ride, and in my

training, it never specifies fast transition or relax transition. It just says run off the bike. And I'm curious, how much of the benefit of running off the bike do you think I am losing if I come back for my ride, leisurely walk up the stairs, have a fig bar, check my phone for a few minutes, and then head out for a run five to six to seven minutes after I get back from the bike ride? You know, I don't think there's like this massive physiological gain that you're getting from like running fast within 30 seconds of finishing your bike workout. It's more like giving yourself the confidence that you can do that and going through the process of a transition and feeling that just like really quick changeover from bike to run what that feels like. So I don't, yeah, I don't think you're losing much physiologically there, but you are just like missing that opportunity to. to practice what it's going to feel like in the race.

Right. I really appreciate that answer. That is exactly what I wanted you to say. And I think a lot of us out there are just like Eric said, Eric said, I can check Instagram and do a New York Times mini crossword before going out. So I'm going to do that. Like I said, you're just missing an opportunity. That's all. Yep.

You know what? That's a risk I'm willing to take. And then last question here. This is from Nate. What steps could be taken to make racing at all distances of triathlon more sustainable to the environment? Most specifically, aid stations. Background of why I'm asking, I've always thought the aid stations on the bike looked wasteful at regular Iron Man races until Kona. I had a bit of a don't meet your heroes moment when I looked over and thousands of plastic water bottles were blown all over the lava fields coming back towards town.

I know that volunteers pick everything up, but it made me wonder if the people who started triathlon envisioned what it looks like today, or something. something different. Nate. Wow. So that last sentence there, I think, is something, that's something different. And that, that's definitely something that, Eric, I've heard you talk about a lot, which is what triathlon is now compared to not only what it was at the beginning, but what drew you to it in the first place. I think that's a whole discussion. But let's tackle the sustainability thing first. So I know that there are people who listen to this podcast who have never competed in a triathlon. But what does a bike aid station look like, Eric? What are they handing out?

What is the concern in terms of sustainability? I think different races are different, but what this person's referring to is like, you know, crystal geyser plastic water bottles being handed out, right? Not like a reusable sport bottle. Right. Iron Man does hand out reusable sports bottles

sometimes at 8 stations, but sometimes they'll also hand out like they used to hand out Gatorade endurance in Gatorade models, which are not really intended to be reused. Yeah. I guess if we just want to start with that, the ultra running really has a great precedent that they set,

and that's cupless races. So if you're doing like the race that I did, Black Canyon, 50K, and you want to get, you know, hydration or anything from an aid station, you have to fill up your own bottle. So they've just got giant tubs. They'll have some of those like fair-sized water dispensers that have like eight spigots around them and they're like a little mini water tower and you stop and you fill up your own flask

of water or if you're running with a little collapsible like cup, you can uncollapse the cup and fill that with water and take a couple hits. But there are absolutely no plastic bottles of any kind to be seen. And yes, this does make you a little bit slower, but yeah, the impact in terms of garbage is substantial. So how much do you think that this kind of stark difference between how ultras, you know, many ultras have adopted this cupless thing versus the seemingly wasteful and damaging style of transition that, or not transition aid station that Iron Man does, how much everything is due to. a difference in morality and ethics that race organizers have taken versus, you know, trail running, especially ultras, it's expected that you stop at these aid stations for a little bit longer. You're not running through them very often.

So it's okay. It's a little bit more already in line with what you're going to do to fill up a bottle that you have with you. Yeah. I mean, I think that's, you just ask sort of two different questions that are like the same answer. And that's just a prioritization of environmental impact over speed. And if we just said in triathlon, hey, cupless, you got to fill up your own thing. Yeah, there's going to be like this traffic jam at the aid station and maybe more people are going to carry more stuff on their bikes. And, you know, that's what we see in ultra running is, hey, are you going to try to get away with one flask or are you going to carry everything that you need and stop?

way less because a stop is time consuming. And how much do you care about your overall time being 30 seconds faster because of that aid station stop versus potentially balking, running out of water later? And so I think Iron Man just set the expectation very early on before environmentalism like hardly existed. And now people would probably freak out a bit if it's like, you expect me to stop on my bike when I'm going 25 miles an hour. I'm in my rhythm and there's a line of people waiting to get water at mile 45.

But if that had been an expectation all along, then that would just be a thing that you took into consideration. And we might see bikes with way more water storage capacity or something, for example. Do you think it's reasonable for us to work towards that in triathlon or is the precedent too deeply set now? I don't see why not. Like, yes, it is very deeply set. I can't imagine that would be a thing that was met with overwhelming opposition. And I think just people would, I mean, so many people already carry the large bulk of what they want because they're like, I use goo or I use tailwind and they only have mortal on course or whatever. So I think it's very possible.

Yeah. And it is something that I almost feel a little bit embarrassed about, like Nate is saying, when you ride by these aid stations and there's just plastic everywhere. And I know on the large scheme of things, it's probably not that impactful. But it's just these little things add up. And if we all do our part when we can, then it does end up making a larger difference. Yeah, exactly. And I think, you know, that would be a statement if that was made.

And it might make a whole bunch of people around the world think twice about how much plastic bottles that, you know, it's like it could have a much bigger ripple effect outside of just the event itself. Yeah, I mean, and then honestly, the thing that popped into my head when this question came up before we got into the whole aid station thing was just like race local. Like if you really care about your personal environmental impact on the earth, like race a race that is within two hours of your home instead of, you know, flying all over the world to experience races. And that's like a huge you choosing the environment over your own personal happiness. But that's another way that you could have a positive impact. Also, local races can be extremely fun.

Yeah. There's not always a sacrifice. That's a little bit of, I'm definitely passionate about that. I think it's too many people jump. straight over their local triathlon and into like, oh, I've got to go to, you know, Switzerland to like make this mean something versus like, hey, there's a lot of fun to be had, you know, in your region and stuff. And I don't know, plug for local racing.

Yeah. Hell yeah. Okay. Well, Eric, we, we did it. Is that our first ever episode without Paula? I believe so. Well, we know we did one once and we had Talbot on. Oh, that's right.

Yes, of course. Talbot. That's right. That's right. So yeah, don't worry, everybody. This is not a new thing, unless you're into that. Unless you really loved it and you shower us with affection. I think people really like Paul on the pod. Yeah, I don't anticipate that being the case.

So we'll be back to normal post-race, but we thought this might be fun to take a crack at anyway. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I certainly enjoyed it. Eric, you and everyone should be very thankful, Eric, and I didn't just talk about cameras and stoicism the whole time because it could have easily just turned into that. You know what?

That's what I was ready for. I was prepared for that. Maybe we'll get to that. Yeah, maybe next time. Okay, Eric, do you have any final thoughts? Any final words before the race tomorrow? Today. I'm going to try to edit as soon as possible and put it up.

Okay. People have something to listen to before tomorrow. Yeah. Everybody, please do not tune in to the broadcast at the start or the end of the race. The first 45 minutes and the last 45 minutes are actually all you need to listen to, really. Yeah, I don't know how it's going to go. So don't listen. Just watch that on mute.

Yeah, they'll be diving into the frigid waters of the San Francisco Bay bright and early tomorrow morning. And I'm sure it'll be a top-notch broadcast as usual. Do you know when the race start is? Because I know T-100 start times are a little funny sometimes. Man, the race start for this is outrageously early. It's like 6 a.m. Yeah, it's because San Francisco is real hard to shut down. Yeah, yeah.

So I think we're waking up at like 3 a.m. So that Paula can leave and get on the bus to go to the, get on the other bus, to get on the boat, to jump into the water. So there'd be a big chunk of time between when I say goodbye to when I see her again. Right, right, right. Cool. Okay, wonderful. Well, we'll see you guys next week.

Next Thursday, we'll be back. Paula will be back to the regular show. Yeah. Later, everybody. Bye.