That Triathlon Life Podcast - Heat training for cold triathlon races, protein shakes, and more!

Episode Date: August 28, 2025

This week Eric and Paula are living their summer dreams in France as Paula gets ready to race the T100 French Riviera. We talk through the race course, the age group race, and what life has been like in Fréjus, before moving on to listener-submitted triathlon questions. Topics this week include:Smack talk in triathlonPicking a TT helmet without wind tunnel accessHow far up the road to look in a TT positionEric racing in hot conditions with a history of heat strokeThe most gratifying part of being a professional athleteWhen upgrading to carbon wheels is worth itHow often we have protein shakesProtecting your bike from sweat and corrosion on the trainerTraining in the heat but racing in the coldA big thank you to our podcast supporters who keep the podcast alive! To submit a question for the podcast and to become a podcast supporter, head over to ThatTriathlonLife.com/podcast

Hey everyone, welcome to that triathlon life podcast. I'm Erica Lagerstrom. I'm Paula Finlay. I'm Nick Goldston. And Paula and I are coming to you from the French Riviera. We're here for the T-100. Wow. French Riviera, appropriately named. And we got a little bit of, we're going to tell you what happened with the week so far here in France. And we'll get to questions like normal. But if you're new here, this is our triathlon-related podcast. cast high on the list of things we enjoy talking about. Yeah, Paul and I are both professional athletes. Nick is a professional musician, amateur athlete, two weeks out from Redemption Race at Ironman, Wisconsin.

So, you gotta stay tuned for the pre-race hype for that one and the post-race, whatever may happen. The post-race. The post-race. The post-race. Yeah. That is potentially, I mean, we've been building towards that a lot more than we've been building towards the T-100 French Riviera. We've got all sorts of alternate

storylines going. Yeah, it's like a what kind of writer does this in their movies that has like multiple storylines all happening at once? I feel like Memento. The guy from inception.

Yeah, same guy. Same guy. His name escapes me now. I just read a thing about him like on the airplane and his storyline writing technique and of course now it. Christopher Nolan?

Christopher Nolan, that's it. Yep. Good job. That feels good. Nice, Eric. Very nice. But yes, you guys, you guys are in France.

How far are you from Nice? How similar riding do you think it is to like the Nice course? Yeah. Well, we've been joking here about like the discrepancy between our usual North American travel times and distances just because there's like very securitus roads and small cars. And it's very enjoyable to drive around here in my opinion. But it will joke, you know, it's like, oh, it's 7K and one hour drive away. But Nice isn't too bad.

It's a major road that goes from there to here. It was about a one hour drive without traffic. So it feels very similar. I would say it's like a mini-niece. Like still a little bit of a city center, but not quite as hectic and busy. We still got the beautiful coat dessert, beautiful blue water, snaky, windy roads. And we've been loving it.

We've been really enjoying riding the bike course. Yeah, I'm trying to, for people who know Nice and people who've seen it on broadcast, I'm trying to try to put them in the place of where you guys are right now, where this race is going to be. Yeah. Along the, we're to the left. To the left, okay. The left on the map.

Yeah, but I honestly feel like mile per mile, you know, kilometer, technicality-wise, this is more technical than the Nese 70.3 course, in my opinion. The section that's along the water, you basically start in the town of St. Rafael. and you ride along the water for like 25 kilometers or so. And that is very technical and windy and roly. And there's some bad pavement. To do well at this race, you're going to have to be on it and focused 100% of the time just to carry momentum and not hit anything in the road.

And then you start the climb. Is there an age group field as well? Oh, that's a sore subject, right? The age group field was supposed to do this same loop that the pro field is doing. but due to the difficulty of closing this course, which, I mean, we can address later, they're not going to be able to do the same courses, the pros. They can't close it down for two whole days. It's absolutely insane to think that they ever advertised it as being the age group course

because I've heard there's up to like 800 volunteers and professional security people blocking off every single possible entrance to this course along the route, which is crazy because we go up into the mountains and there's like $40 million homes up there with people that are going to have a barricade on their driveway and a human standing there preventing them from moving that barricade for 40 minutes while we come through. Yeah, like are you really going to stop me from driving my Bugatti out of my freaking driveway? Right. I mean, even if they don't, you know, they're not intending to interfere,

but it's just a Saturday morning. And I think you just have to be really careful about any cars entering the course. well, this rolling closure is occurring. And to do it for two hours or however long we're doing it for the race, the pro race is still in my mind insane. But to think of doing it for like a seven hour age group window is absolutely impossible. So their course will stay within Fréjus, which is where the finish line is. And I mean, still just being here is really cool. And I can see, I can understand the disappointment if you were originally advertised this really epic loop.

But now that we're here, we fully understand how that is completely impossible. And just to paint the picture for people, this isn't the suburbs of Ohio with your large streets that could fit a bike and a car. These are these tiny French mountain roads that there's no room for a car to be passing by with cyclists at the same time, right? Right, exactly. If you're riding two abreast on a road, cars cannot pass. They go on the other line. But I said to, like, I actually feel much safer riding here because I think riders are much more attentive. There's a lot less distracted driving with phones because you just

cannot text and drive on these roads. And we kind of take the lane with courtesy. You know, we kind of move over when there's a car behind us, but for the most part, cars are just fully going in the other lane to pass us because there is room to do that. And it makes me feel much safer than riding, even in a bike lane where cars are coming within inches of view at full speed, thinking that, oh, this is fine because there's a paint on the road separating us. Yeah, like, hey, I'm in my lane with my F-650 and you're in your little bicycle lane, so we're good. Yeah. Even if I pass you at 100 miles an hour.

I was trying to think about brainstorm why I've felt so comfortable riding in my TT bars here since we got here. And I think that's the reason. I just have a lot more trust in the vehicle traffic. And although the course and the roads are much more technical than at home, I do feel fine riding in my bars because of the vehicle aspect. Yeah. Also, the vehicles are like Fiat 500s. Right. They're small.

They're small. Like, you would have a good chance in a head-on collision with winning. Might be equal damage to the car and to the bike. You know, they weigh about the same. Like, you know, trucks in the U.S., like they wouldn't even notice they ran over you. Anyway, enough about the traffic. But my coach was here for four days. And my new coach, Carmen Small, she's the sport director for EF.

She was a pro cyclist herself. So before I came, I was thinking, like, I was so excited to meet her. But how much could I really improve within three rides with her? could that really impact my ability to have a better race? And it turns out you can improve a ton in just two rides. And I think just like riding with her in general made me braver right from the outset, not because I was trying to impress her, but just because I have these like new eyes on me.

And she's like analyzing my form and how I'm riding and giving me tips and feedback immediately upon seeing how I'm cornering and how I'm riding in my bars and taking that in and being able to immediately implement it on the next corner was extremely helpful. In between our first ride here before we'd ridden with her and the last ride with her, it was like night and day difference of how I felt in terms of comfort riding around the corners. So super cool that she was able to come out. Visually, I can confirm. She came like basically between pro tour races.

Like she's so busy and she's constantly on the road with EF women's team. but was able to come out here, which was, I can't explain how valuable that was. Her and her husband actually live in Spain in the Basque Country and they drove their camper down. So we came to the campground to meet them. And it was really cool. They're awesome people. Yeah, what a valuable experience. Yeah.

So that was cool. And now I feel more ready for the course. Can you figure out any specific thing that may have helped you for other people who don't feel as confident cornering that may be clicked for you? No. Secret. it. Thanks to listen to the pod this week. We'll catch you next week. Podcast only supporter to come out after the race. No, I mean, it's like, it's just a you've got to be there type of thing. It's a feeling.

It's a there's, yeah, of course there's verbal cues, but having her there riding behind me, telling me things as we're riding. It's like, it's a whole experience that I can't just portray over a podcast and like, yeah, you're going to fix your riding in one thing. Yeah, we were talking about this over dinner. I think it's a massive amount of things. You know, some of the stuff we've already talked about. Like it feels a little bit more comfortable on the road here. We were in a group with me, her, her husband, Paula. So we feel like a little bit more of a unit than just like Paula and I on, you know,

a highway in the U.S. And there's like motivation to do so for this race. And Paula wants to, you know, improve at it. Anyway, I was really tentative to even come on the podcast today because I hate podcasting on race week. So I think that was about enough to talk about me. Wow. Yeah, I was just getting going, but I was interrupted, so fuck us, Nick. Actually, Eric was talking and you interrupted to tell him that you don't want to talk anymore.

Yeah. No, that's fine. It's fine, but it's been very cool. That's all I'll say. I've been enjoying watching it, and, you know, this learning process has been great. For me, I feel a bit of guilt when I drag Eric to my races that he doesn't necessarily feel like he's helpful at, like a T-100 race, where we're very well supported. But thankfully, this place also has amazing trails. and cool running. And Eric's been able to go do his workouts and be happy about that. And then we

reconvene and he comes to the ocean and swims with me. So I think the dynamic here has been really nice. And just Europe in general is very, I think, a relaxing place where if the training venues allow, we can both get our stuff done and have a really nice time. So we've loved it here. The trip was daunting at first when we were at home with an injured dog. And like, you know, I never want to travel overseas. but now that we're here, it's amazing and we're really happy that we came. So, Eric, the mountains are right there and they have a ton of gravel and trails.

Is that right? Yeah. Yeah, so ideal kind of. And what kind of bike do you have there? I'll just have the road bike because it was important to me still to come along with Paula on as many bike rides as I could and be present for all of that.

But yeah, a gravel bike or a mountain bike would be pretty sick. Are you, for the run training you're doing, how much are you trying to just run trail period versus get specific work done? And is the terrain there conducive to the specific work? Yeah, my biggest concern with being here was that I was going to be sort of like concrete locked. And it would take so long to get to a trail or the trails would just be too chunky or something. But the mountains here have a really cool blend of like old abandoned. roads that are now gravel or that just never got paved but are currently not in use plus trails

that snake around them. So I've been able to do both. My schedule is pretty specific now as of this week. I'm like officially on a training plan to get ready for the Kodiak UTMB qualifier. And like just to give you an example, I'm really psyched on yesterday's training. I actually did two hard runs and then put a swim in the middle with Paula. Two hard runs. Yeah, yeah. It's, I don't know. It's very cool.

I actually like it. And my coach, Paulo has a pretty specific reason for this and specifically putting some harder efforts in the afternoon on purpose. But I did some like six by five by six minutes in the morning with just one minute rolling jog in between. And then in the evening I did eight by three minutes at a faster pace. Again, with a one minute rolling jog.

And they both went. fantastically well and I was and I was psyched and I was able to find this beautiful perfect gravel road. I think I sent you a bunch of pictures in video because I was freaking out about it. It looked beautiful. And then today I just went for a 90 minute run on the trail trails and tripped and gashed up my hand. But it was it was awesome. So absolutely best case scenario as far as a race that we've been to where I can also go have some fun. Could this be a place that people could go go?

for like vacation slash training camp? Oh, for sure. I was actually thinking earlier today that would be fun to rate all these places that we've been for races as like actual potential training locations. And they do have a French high performance training center here.

So there's, they've got a track with some trails around it that you can only get into if you're a French like Olympic hopeful. The pool is beautiful, 50 meter Olympic pool. You can swim in the ocean right there. There's a bunch of locations that have a bunch of buoys all lined up.

So you can just swim 200 meters along a buoy line. It's nice and calm in the ocean in the morning. The road riding is amazing and the trail running and stuff. If you're willing to drive, I would say like 15 minutes. Oh, yeah. For most things. That's fine. Yeah.

What about cost? Well, you know, back home in Bend, Oregon, we have to pay. Baget cost is like one of our litmus tests, right? A baguette and Ben cost somewhere between $7 and $75. And here in beautiful Europe, they're $1.50, which is fantastic. That's nice. I think it's not as cheap as Spain, but it's fine. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. It's not like, I mean, people I think in the U.S. think they're going to go to whatever, they're going to come here to Santa Monica and ride the Santa Monica Mountains. But it's so expensive. It's expensive here. Oh, it is expensive. Okay.

The accommodation is expensive. Eric doesn't know this. He doesn't book anything. No, I don't book trouble. But a baguette, a cappuccino, a lunch, a sandwich, a pizza. A baguette is cheap. I mean, yeah, but you're saving $3 on your baguette, but you're still paying a lot for your hotel. I mean, it's also peak season. I mean, kids aren't back at school yet, so it's very tourist to here, which is added to

kind of the busyness of the waterfront and everything. But we can move on to questions, but I think this is kind of an exciting race weekend because there is the T-100 in conjunction with the short course racing. So the WTCS has a race on Sunday with men and women for a sprint distance. So kind of a lot of short cross athletes have like conglomerated here as well. So it does feel like a thing. We're seeing other athletes here now. And I think it'll be an exciting weekend of race.

That's on Sunday? Yeah. So Hayden Wilde and Morgan Pearson, I don't know if there's anybody else. Back to back. They're doing both. Yeah. Which I just assumed the shorter race was first. but I'm wrong in that.

Yeah. Yeah, I would have a hard time racing the day after a T-100 because it's just fatiguing, obviously. We're all fit. I don't necessarily get that sore the day after, but it is a harder way to do it, I would think, than maybe doing the sprint on one day and the T-100 the day after.

Yeah, that's what I just assumed. But it's a cool challenge. I mean, why not? I mean, if you're allowed. I mean, many of us would die if we tried to, do that. So, I mean, this should take a certain level. One of the most challenging things about this that I think is going to be a big factor for the run is the humidity, which I at least had no idea it was going to be humid. In every run, even like a 45-minute run here, I look like I jumped in a pool. Yeah. Like I'm having to dry out my shoes. It's like quite humid. So like fortunately, Paula's been doing some heat training and everything. But I think that would be interesting a factor with this one for sure.

Yeah, unfortunately, I kind of don't like that that plays into it, but there's a question. We have a question this week about heat training and training in the heat, but then not racing in the heat. And if there are any advantages to that, right? Yeah. Let's hit the questions because I'm going about in 40 minutes. We're doing an amount of time. It doesn't matter when we get to the questions. But yes, we can get to the questions now.

Yeah. You can submit your questions for the podcast at that triathlonlife.com slash podcast. and for the cost of an American coffee per month, you can become a podcast supporter. We really appreciate the podcast supporters. It's the only way this podcast makes any money, so we appreciate that. And we're flying our athletes all over the world to race,

so we've got to make the money somehow, you know. Yeah, it doesn't come from the podcast. Okay, first question here from Bailey. Hey, TETL, really curious if you can share any race secrets as it relates to smack talk. is there any trash talking in triathlon, any mental antics to try and get inside someone's head? I'd have to imagine there's a deep level of respect for other athletes

and this doesn't happen in the sport, but wondering if you've ever had any experience with someone talking smack Bailey. So I want you guys to reach into the back of your minds and try to remember your ITU days and see if this was any different than now racing, 70.3, T100 style racing. I feel like smack talk in triathlon is pretty simple. dude slash non-existent.

Much to the T-100's dismay. Yeah. Because they try to. They want the fire, of course. They want the drama. I said today, the interview people trapped me as I was trying to go for a bike ride, which is fine. They're all nice people.

But I said, like, it's mind-blowing to me that they're closing this entire course. And then they took the word mind-blowing and used it as, like, the thumbnail. And that's just like everything. out of proportion. I wasn't even referring to the course, which I guess you could call it mind-blowing, but... It's mind-blowing, this, race.

Yeah. It's like a serial killer of like wanted letter. The hodge, hodge. Yeah, like taping the words together. I do think that the T-100 to create excitement and interest is like trying to get us to say things that are maybe a little controversial

or smack-talkie about other people, but at least on the women's side, everyone is way too nice. and I genuinely like every single person. So I, like I, Lucy Byram drove me to the pool today for a swim and we're chatting the whole time and I'm like, I genuinely like you and I want you to do so well at this race, but I'm also racing you. It's just such a funny feeling when you see these athletes, you know, five or six times a year and they're all super nice and we all know each other now.

So it's almost the opposite of smack talk. It's like I truly want the best for them all. Yeah. Well, at the same time, trying to keep this competitive edge, you know, when you're on the race course, it's just kind of a crazy feeling. And I think when I was racing short course, it was much easier to be more competitive because there was a lot more tension and less camaraderie. And I thought a feeling of more competitiveness when you were racing on the short course scene. That was just my experience. But yeah, so no smack talk.

The only smack top I read is if I accidentally go on slow twitch and read about my bike. It's from age troopers, though. It's not from other pros. Yeah, exactly. Amateurs smack talking the pros. Which does, by the way, hurt my feelings. Yeah. So just don't do it.

Yeah. One of the chances that anybody who's on slow twitch, like, shooting their mouth off is listening to the podcast, about 1%. I don't know, dude. I think there's a good chance. I think they love to hate. Yeah. Anyway.

No, I really haven't experienced much at all. In Exterra either. Oh, I know some of those. look, stare boys save some mean shit behind my back, but not to my face. So I'm not sure what to do about that. Yeah. Just beat them. Yeah, exactly.

I feel like that's most triathletes, most pro-traithets attitude. There's like, oh, that smack talk is not my thing. I'm just going to go let my legs do the talking, you know, which is honorable, but boring for television, I suppose. Yes, yes, that's right. Okay. Next question here's from Kevin, short one, but I love it. Kevin on the night shift?

Kevin on the night shift. all the way from Florida. Thousand points if you, yeah, know what that's a callback to. Okay. If money were no object but you didn't have wind tunnel access, how would you pick out a TT helmet? Kevin, on the night shift.

And just look at what everybody else is wearing. Everyone's wearing the Rudy. Like, that's got to be fast. I'm considering trying one. I was mostly joking about that, but not that much of a joke. I feel like that's how most people make their arrow decisions. Definitely not a joke.

I mean, in Hamburg, Laura Philip and Cat Matthews were both wearing the Rudy Project new helmet. Neither of them are sponsored by Rudy Project. I mean, it's not even about how fast they went that day. It's that they have all the resources to test every single helmet, and they chose that one. So it obviously is testing fast for a variety of people. See, what's interesting to me is that we just make the assumption that everyone has the resources and everyone has tested it. And I'm curious how many people actually have tested the things, you know? Like a self-fulfilling proposition.

I know. I wouldn't say for sure. I'd say, for sure. But I'm not going to say for sure. I think that all arrow helmets are generally pretty good. But in if you look at like history and affordability and accessibility to helmets, the Gero Arrowhead is really popular. It tests fast for a variety of different people. You can buy it on Amazon.

And the Rudy, whatever Wingdream or whatever it is now, is popular and you can get it. I think the thing about things like the specialized TT5, it's hard to get it. Yeah. And what I wanted to say about the specialized TT5 directly to the people on Slow Twitch who are not listening is that, yeah, we're sponsored by specialized helmets. Helmets are not in our contract. We've tested helmets. That helmet has tested the fastest for Paula. But it doesn't, it's not like glued to her back.

It's not glued to anybody's back except for Remco, but it still tests fast. And this is like an issue with the arrow. Just look at it from your freaking mom's basement is that not always does just like the way that it looks equal fast. Yeah. Does it look like smack dab flat on Kate's head? No. But it's a fast helmet. So I don't know.

We could wear any helmet we want. Yeah. When I was with you guys, You had like five helmets in there that you tried. We tested a lot of helmets in the wind time. We haven't tested the new Rudy because we didn't have it at the time when we went. Didn't exist. Didn't exist yet.

But yeah, that's what I would do as I would wear it. Would you guys ever, if you're an age grouper, the consideration I used to make and tell me if you think this is dumb, is I think my head moves around a bit and I look around a bit. So I didn't want something with a long tail in the back the way of someone's. I want to kind of like a snubbed tail to the back. Yeah, a lot of them don't have long tails anymore. Yeah, the long tail thing is a bit gone. Yeah. I think everybody's woke to that.

Great. I love that. Okay. Next question here. I'm John. Hello. I'll try to keep the backstory short so I make the pod. This is kind of a crazy story.

I broke my neck in three places about 15 years ago and I've reduced range of motion and nerve damage, but I'm not paralyzed, so I'm definitely not complaining. I only started riding a TT bike 18 months ago when I bought a used. Shiv T. I've had a professional bike fit, but I'm still trying to dial in my arrow position. I'm a taller triathlete at 6 foot 5 inches, and my neck gets sore on long rides. My question is, where do you look when you're in the arrow position? How far up the road are you looking while racing? I wonder if I'm trying to look too far up the road, making me pick my head up too far and cause additional strain on my neck. Also, are there any neck exercises that you do to help reduce

discomfort on the bike. Thank you for the amazing podcast and what you do for the community. You guys have helped me complete 570.3s, a full Iron Man, and I'm headed to Maryland for my second in just a few weeks. Please keep it up. John. First of all, John, we're so glad you're okay, and it's so cool that after something like that, you're still doing stuff and riding and curious about performance and getting better. And we're out to this question, do you guys, I mean, do you think there's a big difference in between, even between pros in where people are looking. Yes. Yeah, I think this is a comfort level thing.

I would just venture to guess Paul looks 20% further up the road than I do. I definitely spend a fair amount of time not looking up the road, but I also hit a pothole and crashed in Oceanside. So it's like a fine line of like looking up just barely

through your eyebrows sometimes or a little bit more often and having your head in a great position. And we've talked about that before of like when you see these cyclists in the pro tour that have these beautiful positions, there's no one on the road, there's no other athletes, they've got a team car behind them,

and a radio that's telling them, in one kilometer you have to look up. Otherwise, just like stay in line with the yellow dots on the road. Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking, is they don't have any obstacles. And they, like, a 70.3 course is too long, or an Iron Man course is too long to go through and find every pothole or whatever.

But for them, like a 30K or 40K, they can reasonably really figure out what the course is. Yeah. If I could just, like, guess what I do, it's like I'm normally looking up maybe like 20 meters or 15 meters in front of me. And then we'll say like I look up, like every third time that I look up every three or four seconds,

I'm looking like 100 meters up to make sure that there's a car or something. So, like, accepting that if a dog were to run out, you've got a 50-50 chance of seeing it. Right, right. But your head's in a good position. You know, I was thinking, I was thinking, I've been writing TT a lot lately. And when I'm, even with my road helmet, when I'm looking up the road, I'm not even looking through my sunglasses. I'm looking between the bottom of my helmet and the top of my sunglasses. It's like, you know, and I don't think I'm alone in this.

Yeah, so mine don't, mine are frameless. I specifically wear a sunglass. ungod pair that have nothing on the top so I can do that. But I think a lot of us do that. Your head is as low as you can get. So when you look up, there's not much room to see. It's like sighting in the water. In like open water. You don't need to be able to, you know, see a mile away. You just need to be able to confirm real quick that you're still headed in the right direction and you can see some splashing in front of you. It's definitely not ideal. Like it's definitely uncomfortable and, you know.

It's not a recommendation for safety. comfort. This is striking the balance between speed and safety and comfort for sure. Yeah. And do you guys do any neck exercises for this kind of problem? No. But the only neck exercises that I know of are the iron neck.

Iron neck? Yeah, go down a little Google rabbit hole there. It's like what Larry Hamilton does. Have you seen him do his neck exercises? That is what Larry and Hamilton uses. Oh my gosh. That's the only neck exercise that I'm aware of. I see him posting that stuff. I'm like, bro, what are you doing?

I guess if you really wanted to, you could do your planks, like, looking up, you know, if you're plank in any way. Interesting. Yeah. Otherwise, man, that sounds like an uncomfortable exercise. Yeah. Just do the thing. And best of luck next week in Maryland in two weeks. Next question is from Isaac. Hi, Paul, Eric Nick and Flynn. With Eric continuing his ultramarathon career, what is his plan for hot races? In past episodes, you guys have talked about Eric's challenges with

hot races, and it seems like many ultras are intentionally set in hot places during hot times of the year. God, that is true, isn't it? Will Eric be doing more heat prep or just avoiding hot races altogether? Thanks to you guys. I love the pod. Isaac. Well, someone would be discussing

with my coach, but the last hot triathlon that I did in Los Cabos, I do feel like I kind of cracked the code for me. And that code is go really slow. like just really keep it in my pants and keep the ego in check. What does that mean?

Keep it in your pants. Just not get all like broke, like, just today is the day that I'm going to like know how to do the heat and run really hard. Like I came out of transition at Los Cabos and like went out intentionally very slowly. Like at the pace that I have blown up to in 70.3 is to the point of where it felt like a joke. But then right around halfway through that, all of a sudden that pace became. halfway through that half marathon, that pace became very challenging to hold that pace instead of

walking like I did the previous year in Los Capos. The thing that I think that ultra running has going for it, at least for me, is that pace that I was running is my 50K pace. Right.

It's like to do a, even a 50K, the pace at which I'm running is 30 seconds per kilometer slower than my PR half marathon pace in a 70.3. And if you're doing 100K, it just gets slower. So I think, yes, very uncomfortable,

but also just like the intensity level and therefore like your thermal barrier that you're bumping up against is a little bit less of an issue. At least that's what I'm surmising and hoping going forward. So when you were racing of 70.3 that wasn't hot, you're saying in Cabo the first half felt like almost too easy

like uncomfortably easy and a 70.3 that was not hot. How difficult how much are you suffering 5K in? I mean I feel like I redlined most of my 70.3s and I was always on the brink of blowing up because I just wasn't the fastest guy in the field and could just pick the pace I wanted to go

was a little bit beholden to the race dynamics. So, yeah, I don't know. I've been 1K into 70.3s just bleeding out my eyeballs. Yeah, the reason I ask is because I have noticed as a non-elite athlete that if I am really hurting 5K into the 70.3 run, I have made a mistake. I will not be able to hold it. And it's not how much do I want a thing.

Like systems in my body will stop working properly by the end. and I think as a high-level athlete that way you guys are, you can reasonably redline of half marathon at the end of a 70.3 and still get the most out of yourselves. Yeah, within reason. I do think we maybe have a little bit

more ability to be in this uncomfortable place for a little bit longer, but we're not like fucking aliens, it's still within reason. Yeah, that's cool. I mean, that is so promising to know that you feel like that Cabo race because you did well, I think you almost podiumed

in that race, right? You were fourth, I think. Yeah, and I had a great bike ride, but it was all very much like riding and running within myself and having to check the ego a little bit and not ever really cross over to that high, high level of intensity

that causes heat issues. Yeah, great. Well, we're looking forward obviously all of us to see where this goes. So many people interested in ultramarathons right now. That's that. I'd remember. much rather do it, you know, the Iceland race, 50K. Right, of course. Cold.

It'd be cold. Okay. Next question here. Short question. Question for Eric and Paula. I'm curious, what about your jobs as professional athletes you find most gratifying? Like, of course, training, winning, that's great. But is there something you can think of that maybe is a little surprising that you find really gratifying about the life as a pro athlete?

Mm-hmm. Do you want to go first? I go first. For me, it's like people who were, you know, three questions ago that said you guys got me through 370.3s in an Iron Man or whatever. Like, just whatever we've done with sharing our journey and building TTR. And every time somebody comes up to me or messages or whatever and says they watch the film or like listening to the podcast is gives them company on the treadmill and it impacted their life, like that makes me more happy than any result I've had. And maybe that sounds cheesy, but I genuinely freaking love that when people say that to us. But I think that's not necessarily just being a pro athlete.

Like there was a lot of work done to set up TTL and have a podcast and share the story and do the videos. Not every pro athlete is going to have that impact on people necessarily in that way because they're just not sharing as much, which is totally fine. It's everyone's choice of how they want to have their brand. and as much as they want to share. But it is definitely something that we've intentionally created and as a result of that, these things come in

and we can inspire people, et cetera, which for me, that's also the most gratifying thing and it means more than a race result when someone is inspired by something that we've shared or just seeming more like normal people than some other pros, which, you know, ultimately we are just normal people.

So, yeah, like crossing the finish line and having a little girl there who's got a polished, you know, sign is like that makes the result feel more awesome than just the result itself. Like that extra layer of meaning is awesome. Well, Paula, do you think you could share something that doesn't have to do with that aspect of what you guys specifically have built? That's gratifying? Yeah. Yeah, I think that like having a. challenging workout that looks unattainable or is scary on paper and then finishing the day and having done it, that's really gratifying. And it doesn't matter to anybody else in the world.

But to you, it's like one step, it's not even like one step closer to achieving a goal. It's just like, wow, I was able to do that. It was really mentally challenging. I overcame something. And it's not only in sport that that happens. I think it could be at work if you have a really scary meeting or whatever it is and you can overcome it. and that just feels like a gratifying achievement, like these little tiny things every single day that just make you feel like you did a hard thing. That's a super powerful feeling.

And athletics is just, I think, the way we achieve that. And do you, does it mean anything more to you? Because I think everyone listened to this podcast relates to that exact feeling. Yeah. Oh, my God, I actually did that. I was like, that was hard. before during up to the very end.

I can't believe I've made it through that. Does it make any difference to you when you do that thing knowing yes, I did this thing, but I'm at the like the cutting edge. No, I don't think it matters how faster, how, you know, what my watts were, what my pace was.

Like that doesn't change the feeling. I don't think. I think someone who's doing it slower or less watts or whatever can have the same feeling ultimately. It's just your own scale of difficulty. I just might imagine if I were doing things that were world class, I might be like, whoa, this is cool on two levels.

Yes, I did this hard thing, but no. Even if we do stuff that's hard, I mean, there's still so many people that do it better than us. We're not the best in the world. And you're always going to compare yourself to people that are better than you. Yeah, you just continually normalize the new thing. You were trying to get top hundreds on Strava, and then you were trying to get top 10.

and you're trying to get the top, and it's always just like a new goal in that you just keep resetting the bar, right? Yeah. I mean, I have so many thoughts about that whole unfortunate mental process, but yeah. I mean, it's good and it's bad. It's good and it's bad. Yeah. Cool.

Okay. This is the next one is from Jeremy. Hey, Tripod. I'm a new listener and have really been enjoying your company on my long runs. I recently had to purchase new bike wheels. because I needed a new set only a week out from a race I had to rush the purchase a bit

and got carbon road wheels as that is all I could quickly find I used them for this season but I'm considering upgrading to more arrow wheels my next couple of planned races are on hillyer courses would switching to a more arrow wheel setup

offer significant time savings on these courses or would keeping my current setup be fine Jeremy I'm a little confused by some of the language here I think Jeremy is just saying that he got like 30 millimeter deep wheels not try, you know, quote of quote, try, yeah, 80 millimeter

deep wheels with a disc in the back. Right. So we've, I guess I think this is an opportunity to reinforce something that we've said before. But Eric, what do you think? This always comes down to a seconds versus dollars. What does money mean to you and what does time, you know, mean to you? is going from a 40 millimeter wheel to an 80 millimeter wheel at the expense of $2,500 worth 30 seconds over a 40K.

But you are, you're confirming kind of the question, which is, is it faster? Yes. Almost always it is faster, even on hillyer courses. Not necessarily. I think there is a certain point where a 454, I brought a 454 here, the hilly course.

I mean, I'm sure in 8-5 You're like, you're splitting hair. Partially to do with climbing. Yeah, if you're doing a 70.3 that has 7,000 feet of climbing in it, now you're in the realm of I would not buy a new wheel set.

But if it's you know, 1,500 feet of climbing, definitely going to help. But you do have to take a new account the comfort like you just said. If you get in a set of 8-5-8 and it's a really windy day and you're less comfortable and therefore sitting up more, it's not faster. Right.

So you have to. It's literally slower. Right. If you're able to hold your arrow position with an 858, yes, it'll most always be faster. But that's not what it was the case if it's windy. You can really feel the difference, especially if you're a lighter rider with crosswinds. The difference between a 4 and an 8 is, I think, noticeable. For sure.

Yeah, especially on that front wheel, I imagine you can, like, it shakes you around a bit. Yeah, I guess I would say, if you just happen to come across a screaming deal on some deeper wheels between now and then, awesome. But don't go get all stressed about your current wheels if your next race is a hilly course. Right. Cool. Okay, next one here is from Jordan. Hi, all, longtime follower from when Eric was trying to make Team USA and it was featured on slow Twitch. Eric, when was this? I would assume that this was going into, yeah, Rio. Yeah.

Did make Team USA, sort of. I was the first alternate, but yeah. A little bit of an asterisk. But you weren't allowed to go, right? Why is that? Zika. Oh. Every single Olympics has some massive problem, right?

Like it was the water quality in Paris. It was Zika in Rio. But yeah, they didn't bring any alternates to Rio because of the Zika virus. Wow. That's something else. Okay. Back to the question here. I was wondering if you three have a protein shake after each session or just one a day. Also listen to a few of the playlist on the TTL Spotify channel. What's up with all the Bubba Sparks? Thanks, Jordan. What's wrong with Bubba Sparks? Yeah. I don't know what's a... I don't know. Is there... I don't know. Are we unaware of a canceling that has happened? Man, I don't know, but I built those playlist a long time ago. So anything that's happened recently, I can't. You're not liable for. I haven't been going back and taken any canceled artist out of a playlist I made in 2019. So let's make this an even more broad question. How do you guys

feel about supplementation and how often are you consciously, intentionally implementing it into your nutrition? We finished a run yesterday and we went into the store here and Eric was looking for a protein shake. Literally any liquid as protein in Europe. Not as big of a thing. Yeah. Yeah. So he just bought a yogurt and a juice. Yeah. It worked out. It worked out fine. But yeah, I mean, if I could, now the tail one has their new recovery protein flavor formula thing that they just came out with, if I could have like six of those a day, I would. I think they're so freaking delicious. No, you wouldn't. Yeah, I would. Yeah, I would. But I have one after like every workout that's over like 75 minutes,

like in the 90 minute range. Below that, just have like real food. Yeah. So if it's if it's hard, especially if you're, which you guys almost always are training more than once a day. You're, you know, it's hard to get that in otherwise. Yeah, it feels like a great, no matter what, just do it and be in the habit of it and ensure that the rest of the day has a little bit better chance of going well. Yeah. I also recommend something I do is I do, I put protein powder in my oatmeal in the morning, and that helps me kind of get started on the right foot.

That's fun. Yeah, it's fun. I like my self-punishment oatmeal. Oh, have we talked about my disgusting breakfast that I have? No, no. This is what I do Monday through Friday. It's like a form of self-punishment, I guess. Not on the weekends?

Not on the weekends of the weekends. What about the weekends? No, I have fun on the weekends. I don't do this. So on weekdays, I do two scoops of oatmeal, traditional oatmeal, two minutes in the microwave, and then I put... What is a scoop? A cup? it's probably a little less than a cup

probably adds up to like a cup and a half total but I should measure it out and then I half science half yes well it was Sarah recommended this to me back in the day and so I trusted her it was and then I do two scoops of which is one serving of collagen protein so it's like 20 grams of protein and then which is not like a full chain amino acid chain but it's still good and then I do 5 grams of creatine,

chia seeds, hemp hearts, and a splash of oat milk. So it tastes like wet cardboard. Like it has no real flavor to it. But you just put honey in it. I could, but there's something about it that I think, and then while I eat it, I'm not on my phone. I read 10 pages. I think it's this full, like, dopamine reset of like,

you're going to hate every second of this, as I don't really love reading. This is the most Huberman thing. I've heard this week. I'm sorry. But I think it's actually good for my body and my brain to start the day with like, this is not going to be fun. This is not going to feel good.

This is going to, this is functional and you're going to, I feel like it has set my day up in such a good way on weekdays. And then on weekends I have like cereal or, no, I think I can appreciate that. You're like, this is a serious,

intentional thing that I'm doing. Yes. You know, I'm taking care of myself. Yeah. And if that requires you to eat something that tastes like cardboard that must be healthy because it tastes so bad, then like, whatever. It puts your brain in that like, I'm doing me, taking care of my health.

But I kind of disagree with this philosophy because I think healthy eating can also be really tasty. Totally. You're totally right. And I don't think there's any reason to punish yourself eating this and adding maple syrup or honey is actually good for you. Oh, or fruit would be great. Fruit would be great. We're not all like normal in the head. You're right.

I think I just recognize that I live such a. a joy pleasure-driven life, like borderline hedonistic life, that is good for me sometimes to just be like, no, you're going to be bored, you're going to do something that is not fun right now and just for the sake of doing it even. It's not for everyone, but I've noticed it has been nice for me.

Yeah, no, that's what I'm saying. I feel like it just, the bland food is just the mechanism for you doing a thing that feels like intentional. But Paul is right. Like, if the fruit is, putting fruit in there would be only better for me. There's no real reason. But then you have to buy fruit and go to the store.

Well, that's true. That's a challenge. This is just Paula wants to roast Nick is what's going on here. I'm a willing participant in the roast. Didn't wait here. Yeah, it's fine. It's fine. Okay, we just have two more questions.

First one is from Joyce here. Trainer question for my favorite experts. I'm training for Kona and have to be on the trainer to get rides in before work. To heat acclimate, no fan is going. The sweat volume is impressive. Should I be doing something to protect my bike? I have a towel over the bars and covering what I can. Any other recommendation?

Thank you for TTL choice. Yeah, get a kick or bike. Are they kind of like ready for sweat though? We're getting one. You're getting one? We are getting one. No way. Yeah, Ian Boswell sold us on it pretty well.

So we're going to get one. We will let you know what we think, but that is definitely built for sweat and will not mess up your bike. I can't believe. I think it's the best use case. I know. I was skeptical, but Ian says that he only rides that inside. He never puts his bike on a kicker anymore because it's just easy. It's always set up.

It always works perfectly. You're not coroning your bolts by sweating on your real bike. That's super solid. I think for a TT bike, it gets a little trickier because you actually do want to ride your position on the kicker. So maybe we won't use it quite as much as well. road cyclist, but we're excited to try it. I'm kind of excited to like try to put TT bars on there and just like really nerd out on it and see if we can make it work for our situation. Because if we could, yeah, that's great. You're not destroying your bike.

Maybe that's like spacewise financially, if that's not a possibility for you, you should definitely put electrical tape over all of your bolts because those are the things that are going to corrode the most on your arrow bars, on your top tube, on your headset. If you can be completely confident that no sweat can get underneath there, because then if it does, then you can get dry. You're right. Yeah, so maybe like a lot of layers of tape and then saran wrap and then a towel. Yeah, the towel still on top.

I think a major thing that a lot of people do is they forget to then take the towel away. They leave the towel sitting on the bike, and now you've just got your bike in a sauna. Yeah. I never do that, though. No, we had people bring the bikes into the bike shop all the time like this. you just gets distracted and you go to work and you left your sweaty towel on your bike and boom insta rest this happens outdoors too just you just sweat on your bike yeah if you live next to the mayor nick yeah i mean i do live next to the mayor here maybe that's more the issue maybe that's the

issue i assumed it was because i was dripping sweat onto these bolts but maybe you're right i got to think it's i got to think more if it's a oceanic thing for you and part two of resting nick you're not sweating buckets onto your t-tip back i mean i am sweating buckets on to it, but it's, maybe that's, I always were surprised that, like, it's enough to corrode these. Is it just your T-T bike? No, it's, it's all my bikes.

Okay. Yeah, I'm going to go with, I'm going to go with proximity to the ocean, but. Yeah, I don't know, you should have to move inland for a year to test this theory. I'm, I do not approve, and I will not. You're not willing to do that? Yeah, it's, uh, it's definitely an important thing to protect, but also, like, heat training is really important.

So I think you're doing a good thing. Also, some of these, like, your clothing actually catches a lot of the sweat as well. Like, wear a hat, wear a sweatband. I don't know. Do things before it drips to avoid. Which, Nick, I'm just curious, like, all of your bolts, like stem bolts. Like, so on my, on my venge, which I can see from here, which, by the way, if anyone would like to buy it, I'm just about ready to sell it because I have a new tarmac. The headset bolts are, like, really, like, this is the top one. is in bad shape. Yeah, so here's what I would do, is I would get a new one of those and put a little dabble oil on it. Oh. Basically, if you coat it in just a teeny bit of oil, that's not going to rust.

Wow, that's interesting. I think the issue is, and I've talked to Jonathan Lee about this because he had the same bike, is that those are like a proprietary part and they're very hard to get. Well, then you're screwed. So if anyone wants to buy a... Screwed. If anyone wants to buy a venge with a rusted bolt that you can't get a replacement for? It doesn't exist anymore.

Hit me up. You know what? I'm going to look for it. I'm going to look for it. If I can find it, that would be great. This conversation has directly impeded your ability to sell that bike. That's too bad. Well, you know what?

Full honesty here. So the bike's in a fantastic shape other than that. New rotors. Breaks are bled. Yeah. Chains wax, it's new. But some rusty boats. but it's California rust. It's like elite rust, you know? It's like fancy rust.

Okay, last question here. Actually, excuse you, it's patina. Next question here is from Ivan. And this is about heat as well. Hey, Penf, long-time listener, second-time writer, maybe first time being read. Yeah, sorry about that, Ivan. On 13th of September, I will be racing Black Lake X-Try. Thanks, Eric, and the rest of the community for the new nutrition tips on the app. TTR app, everybody, go download. It's available on Android and OS. This is the race whose video got me into triathlon, and three years later, here I am. We'll for sure look at it more as an adventurer rather than a full race. Thanks to the film you guys made. Not for the question. The race temperature is set to be around 16 to 18C, which is about 60 to 64 Fahrenheit. Perfect if you ask me, but my training has been hot, particularly for the long days,

around 32 to 35 degrees Celsius, which is 90 to 95 Fahrenheit, will this training have a positive effect such as heat training or just additional effort that I had to endure? Thanks, advance. Ivan, I want to introduce a third option there, not just additional effort that you have to endure, but there's a chance sometimes that it's additional fatigue that doesn't help you. However, with heat training...

No, this is nothing but positive. Heat training is sometimes called poor man's altitude training, because it does similarly increase your blood volume. Yeah. So your efforts are not in vain, and they will do nothing but help you. I think you do have to be a little bit cognizant of becoming cold. So bring some arm warmers or whatever,

things that you might be able to layer with. Yeah, 60s definitely actually, that's on the bike you could get cold. Yeah, especially if you've been training in 95. Yeah. I mean, people do. intentional heat training on the trainer, but if your only option is training in it and you're never getting the actual speed work or able to work a little bit harder because you're hindered

by the heat, I think that, yeah, you might be getting some plasma volume increase, but you're also not getting the quality training that you need. So it's kind of tricky. When people do this very specific heat training to mimic altitude, it's like in a bubble after their session, they're coming in and riding the trainer for an hour and, you know, riding in really hot body temperature zones. But it's hard. I don't know physiologically. In a perfect world, yeah, you could like jump on a treadmill in total AC or do some stationary workouts in total AC occasionally to hit those high intensities. That's true. The nice thing about Ivan specifically is that Ivan is kind of not aiming for that top level like red line fitness.

He's just trying to get through this race a little bit. And so I think in Ivan's specific case, it probably is only beneficial to be able to do that. But if you're trying to perform well, Paul, you make such a good point. When people do this, they're training normally and then they'll come inside and like get really hot in a bathroom and spin for an hour to get that additional stimulus. Yeah, but while still being able to do some quality training. Yeah. normal temperatures. But if that's all you have options for, it's not a bad thing. And I think you'll only feel great in the colder weather.

And the mental toughness of training in that hot. Oh my God. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I always feel amazing when I'm racing in cold weather. So what's this race called? The Black Lake X-Try? Yep. I got to Google out. I haven't heard of that one. Yeah. So does that mean it's like Iron Man distance and it's, but it's off-road? Yeah, it's the same as Norseman and Padigan Man, which I've talked about, where it's, I don't, typically the bike is still on roads, but then the run tends to be some trail and they just tend to be on like very challenging elevation profiles. Like end on a mountaintop or something. Yeah, just like a full on adventure mode of trathlon. Well, Eric, your hair is looking amazing. I feel like it's gotten better through the course of this podcast. Paul, your hair is down, which I think I've seen three times in my life. I've got a lot of, you know, just like the salt water in it.

And I'm just playing with it a little bit. Next time we hear from you guys. Next time we, you're welcome, of course. Your hair is also looking great, Nick. Yeah, I was actually thinking at the beginning of the podcast. I wish that we had been doing video podcast since you began. You're like, I don't know if you want to talk about this, your hair. We can totally talk about it.

We can totally talk about it. growth journey because you would 100% be sponsored by whatever product you're using. Well, we talked about this. I wanted to do a thing with me. I do a hair spray. I started like a couple years ago for hair loss and it

has really, really, really worked for me. I'm still like, you know, I'm never going to be a hair model. Dude, no, it's night and day to me. Yeah, yeah. I know. Of course. I'm so stoked about it. I mean, you never know. I mean, maybe somebody who listened to the podcast,

It works the Borgs the Bres. No, they asked Nick to be a model and Nick declined because he doesn't want to be associated with like, you know, he's a public figure now. So he doesn't want people to be like, oh my God, is that Nick from the TTL pod on this hair regrowth commercial? On the TV screen at the airport or something. Oh my God. Yeah. That would be a nightmare. So we lightly said no. We talked about this. We're like, how much would they have to pay you for you to be a model for this hair regrowth spray? And what have? decide you're like there's no amount of money no I mean because I was like yes there is Nick they were offering me a pretty good amount of money and I just like no I can't I don't care okay a million a million a god I guess you know I'm I'm freaking like knocking you out and signing your signature what's the point of having a million dollars to live a better like I don't want this to represent me you know like I want to be happy and at peace and I think that would bring more turbulence into my life than peace.

I think you're overestimating the impact on your personal life that this ad campaign would have. You're right. You're right. You're right. I would do it for a million. No one would care and you would have a million dollars. Yeah, exactly. That's right. That's right. And you might help some other people with their hair growth. Oh, well, okay, I'll just say this. If you are losing your hair as a man or as a woman, start now with the spray. It's like the whatever, monoxidil phonesteride. It's like the most

classic normal thing that you can possibly get. It's not just from, it's from like any brand does the same thing.

Start earlier because... A good offense is the best... A good offense. And I just... You can take the stuff orally,

but it scares me for some reason to put stuff in my body like that. So the spray is a little... Grown hair in all new places. Yeah.

Exactly. Exactly. Is it like tested to not give you cancer? Well, yeah, a lot of things are tested to not give you cancer and then 20 years later, it's like, oops, sorry, we screwed up.

That test was not. Perfect. So I'm just, yes, it's like, it's so widely used and there has been a lot of testing on it, but any chemical that you put on your body, I think is a little scary. I mean, it can actually be helping you not get cancer

because it's protecting your scalp a little bit, you know, from like melanoma. Hey, that's true. That's true. That's true. That's true. It's giving you, maybe the cancer is. I mean, I used to be getting the full force of the sun on my head

and now a little bit less. So, there we go. All right, that's quite enough of that. Like we said at the beginning of the podcast, triathlon is one of the things we love to talk about. Yeah, that's right. Air loss prevention is another. This is the kind of shit we talk about

when we're not reporting the podcast. That's right. That's right. You're welcome. Yeah, a little inside of TTL after dark. Yep. But you can watch Paula race on the internet this weekend. That's what we'll be doing.

And we'll be back in Bend for next week's podcast. And Flynn's ACL surgery. Yeah. Paula Saturdays. race, right? Wednesday is the surgery. Yeah, but I know, but the Saturday is the race.

Yes, but the Wednesday is the surgery. Yes, what he's been consuming Paula's thoughts? That was a lot of been in Europe. Okay, thanks guys. All right, bye everyone. Bye.