That Triathlon Life Podcast - How long should you train for a 70.3 triathlon, picking the right wetsuit, and more!

Episode Date: June 26, 2025

This week, we dive headfirst into listener-submitted questions, starting with some Bike Tech with Eric on tire widths for older carbon rims. From there, it’s full throttle into all things triathlon. We discussed:How to seed yourself in a swim when your strength is the bikeAre pro triathletes vomiting more these days?How much training time you really need for a 70.3Choosing the right wetsuit for your goalsCrafting the ultimate indoor pain caveTips for surviving a 5x supertriIs it worth shaving grams as a mid-pack age grouper?Can you use a triathlon wetsuit for surfing?A big thank you to our podcast supporters who keep the podcast alive! To submit a question for the podcast and to become a podcast supporter, head over to ThatTriathlonLife.com/podcast

Hey everyone, welcome to that triathlon life podcast. I'm Eric Loggerstrom. I'm Paula Findlay. I'm Nick Goldstone. And we're back to the normal format. Paul and I are at home and bend. Nick is in L.A. Everything feels right. And as it should, chocked full of questions from everybody who wrote in. So thanks so much for doing that. Nick did a little race last weekend. He'll give us a brief recap of the vibes from that. But then I think we'll launch right into questions. Paul and I are both professional triathletes. Nick is a professional musician, amateur triathlet. and we just like talking about multi-sport stuff. Eric, what am I holding up right here? Well, that's some special edition gear right there. That's a little bit of the TTL Nation order from last December. But when we went to Oceanside, 70.3, Kistelli did a limited rerun of some tech teas and some adventure hoodies, and we got some left over. It's very form-fitting.

It makes you look like a real athlete. Yeah, we, Kestelli had some left. over and they sent them to us and they're up on the website. So if you have seen that really cool gray and teal kit walking around, that Nick's wears, that Nick wears? Yeah. You want to look like Nick? We got it for you right now in a very limited quantity. I did get a lot of compliments on that from St. George. It looks good. It's probably the most feedback I got. No one cared about the race, but they're like, the kit looks great. Yeah. Head over the website and snag those if you are so inclined. Okay, so what's your guy's deal? You're back and bend. Lots of travel. You were gone for a long time.

are you doing now? What are you focusing on now? Wow. That's a good question. We don't know. We're lost. Well, there's a secret thing that you can't talk about, apparently, that you did yesterday. Yeah, we did a secret thing involving a sponsor and Paula

and a camera. Top secret, but stay tuned for whenever that debuts the internet. What else have we got going on? Oh, that trip that I took to Patagonia, the film for that is finally ready and should be debuting. Oh, my. gosh. We'll talk about it a little bit more in the future, but in the next three weeks,

it'll be going up on the specialized YouTube channel. That's very exciting and finally closing the chapter on that cool adventure I got to do. I'm just curious, how long did it end up being? Is it one video or is it multiple episodes? It's one video. Yeah. So basically, if I'd just run it full documentary found footage style, it could have been an hour and a half. Right. I remember you saying, like there's no way I can get this short enough. It's impossible. Yeah. I ended up actually hiring somebody who's a big TTL fan to help them out with the edit.

And they managed to take it and crunch it down into something that was more digestible in the 10-minute range for specialized, which is what they wanted. But yeah, if they ever wanted to do something more involved with any of that stuff, there's a lot to work with there. Yeah. But I think it hits really well and it's a cool message and a very cool event for charity. So we'll make sure that everybody knows when that actually hits the internet. Yeah, cool. And there's also a new TTL collection that is coming out soon. And I think people need to know because they like to know in advance

so they can order it when it comes out and not everything be sold out. Yep. Today or tomorrow I'll be going and picking up the final pieces of that. But there are a couple very cool hats, one that's tan and one that's navy. And they both have a big TTR circle on the front. of them. I posted a little sneak peek on my Instagram story and a bunch of people messaged. Basically, enough people messaged me on the Instagram that they'll probably sell out very, very fast. But then we're also finally, the tank top that I have that, I think you call it

a penny, Nick, like that reversible one. A penny, yeah. Mine is, it's four years old and all the logos have worn off of it and needed a refresh. So we've got one of those coming out. And then a men's shirt that is kind of a riff on the multi-sport shirt that we did in Oceanside and a women's shirt that is a really cool color palette so okay and then when just so people know and they have their imminently finger on the trigger so we don't we we don't have a date but but look out for it on check the Instagram don't have it don't have a hard set date for it right now but definitely within like this weekend or next weekend I would say in there well we'll if you if you uh go follow

follow the TTL Instagram account, you'll be sure to know or subscribe to our newsletter. Every time we put out a drop, as soon as it goes live, we send out a newsletter available now. Yeah, cool. And then as far as training goes, where are you guys at with that? Paula's kind of in this little in-between space where she got through T-100 San Francisco and T-100 Vancouver, and now there's a little bit of a lull before future races. But I'm training again starting yesterday. I mean, on a schedule.

Last week was a bit relaxed, did a lot of trail runs, did a lot of... non-structured stuff and now back to actual training. Yeah. I think a lot of people took a little break after Vancouver because it does kind of like signal the mid-season, although it still kind of feels early in the year. A lot of people have raced a lot already. So appropriate time to take a little rest before a big summer and fall. Okay. So I'm kind of curious about this, though, because you say rest, but, and of course you're not actually fully resting.

So you're still training every day. How much of a difference in like mental toughness is there between when you are on structure and have a race in mind versus when you're going out, swimming, biking, and running every day? Do you feel fully like when you're doing it every day but without much structure that you're getting a mental, like, relax? Or does it still feel like there's a lot of difficulty in still doing that? No, no, I think I said to Eric, like I almost feel like I want another week, quote unquote, off, but it's not like I want to take it off. I just don't want to follow a training schedule right now. Like I feel a lot of happiness and it's fun when I can just go out and do a run without any stress of pace or anything and go do a gravel ride without intervals. Like I love doing that.

So, yeah, maybe I'd still train for 20 hours. but part of me wants another week of flexibility. But, yeah, if we did absolutely nothing for a week, I think we'd both feel worse. But it was nice to be able to visit family and be on a road trip and not think, like, oh my God, I have to find the perfect place to do this TT bike ride and this run workout. So we were just kind of using the terrain and what was around us to go and move and exercise without, like, training, quote unquote. But also, I was thinking about this this morning. We went to the pool a few times last week, and I just, like, it took all of my might to get to 3K, which is so crazy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then on a normal week when we're actually training, if I do 3K, it feels like not even worth going. God, isn't that crazy? So it's such a change in mindset. Like, we get to 3K in a normal swim week, and it's like the workouts barely even started. But in a down week, when you don't have to go to the pool, it's so hard to get to 3K. So, anyway. Yeah.

I just sometimes think of that exact same concept when I'm in the pool and I'm like, oh, this interval is going to take six minutes, you know, for like a 400 or something or whatever it is. I'm like, God, that's so long. And I'm like, six minutes on a bike interval, on a run interval is so easy. Why is it so different in my head?

Yeah. Because time is slower in the pool. It is slower in the pool. 30 seconds of swimming as hard as you can is a completely different world than 30 seconds of like we did 30 second hill strides, Hill repeats yesterday, and that's over in the blink of an eye, but a 50 freestyle can last all a year long. It's just the hypoxic.

Yeah. And then you're not counting. Like, I think when you have a watch or a bike computer, you're looking at the time, whereas in the pool you're counting the distance. And for some reason, that translates to feeling like longer than when you're, like, counting down on a clock. Something like that. Yeah.

Okay, well, we have a bike tech with Eric question, which we haven't done in a while. So, Eric, you're ready? Ready as I've ever been. Bike Tech with Eric. Hey guys, Bike Tech with Eric question. I was gifted older carbon wheels. The set includes a Zip 808 and a 1080, both with an aluminum braking track.

I'm trying to find any other identifying information on the wheels but nothing. How would I figure out what the maximum tire with I can use on these wheels is? 25, 28. Thanks for any help you can provide. Love what you guys bring to the triathlon and podcast.

space, Steve. It's so funny to hear, to someone say 25, as if it might be pushing the limit of the width, you know, just considering what we're used to these days now. But Eric, what do you think about this? I think this is really down to the limit of what your bike will hold. Like, you can run 32s on those and they'll just look like a mushroom, you know, because the rim is narrower than modern rims, but they were totally designed to hold wider rims if you were so inclined. I mean, why are tires? But it'll just come down to your frame clearance and rubbing the tire against your frame. How much extra room do you think you need between the tire and the frame? Like if it, you know, if it just barely, barely, barely fits, is that okay? Or do you need a few

mills on each side? What do you think? A few mils, because it's going to move back and forth as you get out of the saddle and climb. So I've had tires that rub just a teeny bit and I've put like a little plastic frame guides, not frame guides, but frame protectors in there to try to keep the frame from getting rubbed down. But I'm talking about like a,

you hear it like just ever so faintly. I mean, but ideally they don't rub it all. And that's your guide. The problem is, is even if you take a, you know, calipers to your frame and you go, oh, I got to have 32 millimeters of tire clearance and then so like I can buy a 32 millimeter tire.

It may or may not. you know, sit on the rim in such a way that it's 32 or 33 or 31, and it's a little bit of a trial and error. Yeah, the other thing to consider here is aerodynamics. Most of those tires around that time were built around like 23 or 25C, and if you go up to a 28 or a 30, it's aerodynamically inferior, and it's, you're not going to reap all of the same benefits that you get out of running a 28 or a 32 or whatever on modern rims. But it should still be a little bit better, but there is an arrow penalty. Right. Yeah. I would say those are probably optimized around like a 25.

So 25 or 26 is probably your ideal for those being fast. So the question asker here is Steve. Do you think it would be worth it for Steve to reach out to Zip and ask them anything? Like, hey, these are the wheels I have. Is there any reason I shouldn't put a 28 on there if it fits on my bike, especially since you can't find out what the model is? Or is it just, is that a waste of time? Like I said, aeronamically, if they get back to you, I think that's what they'll say is, hey, this is optimized around X width of tire from that generation.

Anything above that, you might get a little bit more comfort, but you'll be serving a five-watt penalty or something. I'm just assuming that's what they would say if you want to go to that length to ask. Yeah, and just for context, Eric, the tires that I have on my bike now that was your bike, they are listed as 30s, but I have the caliber tool and they measure it larger than 30. too. So, you know, you really can't trust whatever is on the tire, especially because it has so much to do, like you said, with the rim with anyway. And then it can balloon out. Those same tires could be a 30 on a different rim. Exactly. Okay, that was it. Thanks, Steve. We're going to move on to more general questions now. These are submitted by our beloved listeners and our beloved podcast supporters. You can submit a question for the podcast and become a podcast supporter at that triathlon

life.com slash podcast. And we're all back at home now. So we're going back to our fun little routine of giving away a TTL orca swim cap, which are the most premium of the premium swim caps you can swim with. They also make you stand out in a beautiful fashion at the pool. And this week we picked out random podcast supporter. Andrew Mowen, thank you so much for being a podcast supporter. We really appreciate you. Send us the address that you want this amazing swim cap,

and we will get it out to you right away. Can you buy swim cap still on the website? I'm almost 100% confident that we still have some colors, maybe not all of the colors left in stock. And on to our first real question. And actually this question, this first question, we had two very elaborate, long-winded questions about this exact same thing.

So I'm just going to read one of them. But apparently there's some interest about this. So, hi-TTL team, long-time listener and supporter. First of all, thank you so much for being a supporter, Robert. Really appreciate that. I have a question regarding the rolling start of larger triathlons. I'm a below-average swimmer, 36 to 38 minutes. That's not below average.

Hey, that's what I swim in a 70.3. Well, wouldn't you call yourself below average? You've coined yourself. I mean, I'm below average compared to my biking and running ability, but compared to the field, I'm way above average. Oh, okay, okay, okay. I mean, I swim more like 32, 33 minutes, but I still think 36 to 38 minutes is definitely, for a 70.3 at least.

And above average cyclist, two and a half hours. So yes, this is definitely 70.3. If I time myself correctly at the swim start, I'm usually one of the last to enter the water and therefore end up in the back of the pack on the bike. There I then have to overtake hundreds of people, which is often a big problem with large fields of participants and two lap courses, and is sometimes also dangerous if you have a lot more speed. To be honest, it's also annoying. My question now is, should I just get into a better position by the start of the swim like everyone else and risk people having to swim around me or should I continue to get into the back and accept that my own race experience will suffer as a result? You guys, I guess, don't have this issue as much, but I can imagine you can put yourself in the shoes here. So the issue Robert's having is that he's properly seating himself and then has to make up a bunch of time on the bike.

But he's not actually swimming with people of his swim speed. That's what I think is actually going on here. Is he getting into the 38-minute zone and swimming with people and then he has to pass them because he's relatively better on the bike? or is he passing people in the water? I think he's also passing people in the water. That's the thing. Yeah, I think that there's, I don't know, maybe people would be against this,

but maybe like your best time minus five minutes and seed yourself there and then you're actually with people who are swimming your speed. I don't know. I don't think there's a problem with fudging at five minutes, but you're not magically going to be 15 minutes faster. I don't know.

If the purpose of the seeding, is to swim with people of your own swim speed. And everybody's doing that. Exactly. And no one else is doing that. Then just kind of make up the difference, I guess. On one hand, I'm like, be the change you want to see in the world and stick to the 38 minutes thing.

But on the other hand, that's not going to happen. So just go with the 33 minute people. And you'll notice that you're swimming at the same speed. I still put myself in like the 32 minute group. And I'm flying by people. And then I end up swimming 32, 30. 33 minutes. So maybe Nick, you need to put yourself in the 27-minute group.

Yeah, exactly. But I know this feeling of flying by people on the bike. And what's funny is I actually love it. It really motivates me. And I'm sure it's negatively impacting my race. And the other question was about the safety of this. Yes. You're passing a thousand people.

And there's like, you know, and this happened to me actually this weekend where there's like three people already riding abreast because two people are passing it. then I have to go outside. So I don't know. I like it and it doesn't bother me. But the question that this person had was like the ethics about passing people, the ethics of passing people on like a dissent and the scariness around it. Yeah, I think that it's, what can be done.

It is really, it is a dangerous thing to be flying past people that are riding slower. I think that's, but that's not the problem that he's bringing up. But passing people in the water is okay. It might be annoying, but it's not dangerous. But the problem with triathlon in general is that most people are usually a week or swimer than they are cyclists. So a lot of people are having this thing where they're like seating themselves back in the swim, but then passing a lot of people on the bike because that's their strength. So it's common.

And I'd say the answer to this is to go back to age groups, waves. Oh, interesting, right. I'm wondering, would that be better just because it's going to be so, I can't. chaotic or disorganized or, you know, there's not going to be, I don't know if that would actually be, I haven't experienced, you know, the new wave start and how congested or not that gets. That's interesting. I mean, I love the age group starts. It's so much more fun to have like this little mass start, even if it's just 50 of you or whatever.

Yeah. Because then you're actually racing headhead. Yeah, it's fun. I mean, that's the experience I had this weekend is I knew exactly what position I was in the whole time, which was really fun. Yeah, it seems like if you're a slower. swimmer, but you're trying to get a little bit of a, you know, start a little bit further up than you should.

And then people are passing you. It seems like there could be theoretically a greater number of people passing you than if just you started in a 19 to 29 or whatever age group. And it's, there's a wide range of abilities starting every five minutes. Yeah. By the way, Nick, we never talked about the fact that you race this past weekend and got on the podium. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, sorry. It was, it was great. I also just race last weekend and we don't need to always talk about my racing. But it was fun. It was San Diego International Triathlon. I did the sprint. I do it every year. It was the first race I ever did in 2017.

And the main lesson I learned this week is I'm always relied on pumps in transition to get the tire pressure that I'm looking for. And I had to replace one of the valve cores in my wheel set. And so I went to the mechanic. So I used his pump. And he pumped me up to ADP. PSI, and I had my little electronic pump that I brought to make sure that I could pump up. And when it has a pressure gauge in it, and when I put it on, I was expecting to see 80, and it said 65 on it, on both wheels. So my little tip is to either bring one of these new hip portable tire inflators.

Nick's holding his up in front of the camera. Yeah, for just you too. That's great. Mini air compressor. Yeah, mini air compressor. Or bring a little one of those super cheap tire pressure gauges so that at least you know what you're putting in there. Because whatever, a few PSI is no big deal. But 15 PSI is quite a bit.

Is it 802 high though? Are you riding tubeless? So I put everything into Silka and riding tubeless 28th and it said 84 for me. Is this on your canyon? Yeah, on my canyon. It's not hookless. Nesson-hookless. So, for example, Eric, on the tarmac with everything, it's 64 is the recommendation, even for faster riding. Hookless and wider tires as well. Okay. Yeah, it's very dependent on your setup, I guess. But do you think the mechanic was just not completing the task to 80? Or was his pumped wrong? I watched him do it. I would say likely his pump was wrong, which is not uncommon at all. I double check every time I pump up tires, our tires.

except for just like on training road rides because I do trust our specialized pump. I put on the tire pressure gauge. Definitely for mountain biking because like mountain biking, the difference between 17.5 and 18.5 is can be huge. Right. So now I'm in the habit of it, especially for Paula's racing 100%. Like 64, 55, exactly. Double check it with the tire gauge.

They're like 35 bucks. I have two different ones and I think they were both like 35. Oh, got it. Yeah. He's talking about a pressure. checker. Just a checker. Not the actual pump that you have, Nick. Yeah. But then when you

realized it was low, Nick, did you use your air compressor mini? I did, and it was perfect. I mean, it inflates up to whatever value you put in there and then just stops. So it's extremely accurate. I did 80. I actually did 84 on both. But Eric, is your, the pressure gauge, can you

set a value and then let air out until it hits that value? Theoretically, it's got like one of the ones that I have, has a little release valve on it, but it's like kind of hit and miss or whatever, so I don't mind taking it off and putting it back on.

Also like no sealant gets in there, so. Oh yes, and actually that's part of what happened to my valve core that got gunked up. But anyway, the race was very fun. I swam not great, but that's fine. Then biked, I think,

to the best of my potential and came off the bike in first place. which was really fun. And I was pretty confident about that because I saw the guy. Actually, the guy who I had a battle with a bit, when he passed me, he said TTL baby. So I was, that gave me a little boost as well. And I was first in a transition and he came in shortly after.

And then within 20 seconds of the run, he flew by me running 535 pace minutes miles. And I can't do that. Oh, he was like TTL baby. He didn't call you TTL baby. No, no, he didn't call me a TTL baby, no. Although I do like that. It wasn't an insult. It was a pumping out.

That was a stretch to go from the kids to babies. Yeah, no, it was fine. And then I ran well, actually, it's really fun because I've done this race so many times now. it's really fun to see On Strava you can just filter by your own results and it's really fun to see my pretty linear progression of how much faster I've gotten since 2017

and this was the fastest I've ever run the race. Wait, you just said On Strava? Yeah. Explain that. Well, I mean, of course I can look back at results and do the same thing, but on Strava is just very neatly in the same place because there's a segment that is called

San Diego International Triathlon Sprint Course. And so I can just very clearly see, for the bike and for the run. I can very clearly see the average miles per hour and the average pace for each of those. That is the upside of never changing the course. That's cool. Yeah. Did you ride the same bike in 2017 as you rode yesterday? 2017, no, that was my vend, but every other year I rode the same bike.

Yeah. Good job, Nick. It was nice. Thank you. Yeah, it was very fun. It's getting more podiums than all of us combined, including Flynn. Well, you know, put in the hard word. you get good results.

Consistency pays off. You've got to grind every day. Not really. Next question. No, you do work hard, Nick. You deserve it. I do. Thank you.

I think the line that I'm most proud of from our group text was, what did I say? Pain is temporary. Second place is forever. This is a whole story. There's even a question about this. Because, Nick, you put socks on.

Which I couldn't believe for a sprint. Yes, yes. And you were like, well, I value my feet. I don't want to get blisters. I got to train tomorrow. Yeah. And Eric says. But you missed second place,

going from third to second by four seconds. Yeah. So second place, the guy, the first place he was way out in front. But then I was running in second place for most of the time and then blew up a little bit at the end of my run. And the guy who got second, he passed me with about 10 meters left in the run. And I just had nothing. He was sprinting past you.

Yeah. I didn't know he was there. Because I kept hearing footsteps, but I was like, is his your brain playing tricks on you? These are your own footsteps, you idiot. And then eventually he passed me and it's like, no, you're a double idiot. There was someone there. So I had nothing to give. I tried, but he just came right by me.

He was like a 19-year-old kid. Oh, nice. Okay. Pain is temporary. Second place is forever. Yeah. But I'm glad I did a hard run workout yesterday and my feet were fine. So I was thankful for no blisters.

But we're going to talk about blisters actually in a bit here. Next question here is from Chaz. Hey, Squad, I feel like I have seen more and more stories of pros puking mid-race and still continuing to finish. I was curious if A, any of you have done this, and B, do you feel like this is a health risk and a toxic vibe to put out there for the age groupers of the world? Thanks, Chas. I mean, I've never done it. I'm not saying, like, let's glorify this and this should be your goal. I don't think so

But I mean there is It's inevitably like Oh well I guess that person went really hard But these days it's more you just open yourself up to being a high carb meme I don't think it has like to me anyway Every time that I've seen somebody peaking on social media lately It's no longer Wow this is so hardcore

It's like how's 200 grams of carbs an hour treating you bro? Exactly exactly Yeah I was messing up the nutrition When I read this I was like thinking about the fact that he said, do you think this is a toxic vibe for the age groupers? And I think that it's important for age groupers to look up to pros in some ways, but that's not really a pros mission when they're out trying to win a race

is to do everything in the light of teaching what an age groupers to do, you know? Like trying to win a race. You have to go a little deeper. You have to take risk with your nutrition. It's not like, oh, I'm being a bad role model. You're not thinking about that all the time necessarily when something like this happens. That's a great point. It's like an age group shouldn't see a pro puking in the middle of the race and think, oh, and I need to do that now.

You know, don't take every single little thing that happens in the pro race and think that's, you need to look up to that. Yeah, no, and I don't know what exact post that we're talking about, but a lot of times I feel like I see these posts and it's not an excuse is a strong word, but it's a like, oh here's a picture of me puking my nutrition went wrong here's why i didn't perform as well as i wanted to so it's not often i think it's more often that which if i'm an age group or reading that it's like well i don't want to you know mess up my race by having the same thing so practice your nutrition on your workouts everybody i actually like it when i don't like it but i think it's kind of a fun visual when a pro crosses the finish line and then pukes because that that signifies to me more like you went to the depths of your ability to do this sprint finish.

And that's happened a couple times this year versus like the mid race throw up when usually at that point you're probably not going to race and finish well because your stomach's not happy. But Eric's right. I think the increase in that is the nutrition, high carb stuff. Yeah. Pros and cons. Inns and outs. Inns and outs.

There's a lot of ins and outs. A lot of going on. Next question here is from Jen. High try gang. I'm waiting to see. set a goal of doing a 70.3 in the next couple of years. I've only done local sprint triathons, then

had a baby, so starting over on training, wondering how much time should be dedicated to training for a 70.3 before actually completing one. Thanks, Jen. I have thoughts on this. Anywhere between six and 16 hours a week.

Yes, but how far in advance do you think she needs to complete one? I don't know. How fit were you beforehand? How fast do you want to go relative to your fastest time? There's a lot of, I think there's like a minimum viable amount. You could probably get by on like eight hours or something like that. But then I'd just like fully making that up. I feel like that's very individual and how prepared do you want to feel. I, that like that's the point to me is I think most people can survive their way through a 70.3. But is this what like is this the goal, Jen? Is the goal to just say you, did it or is the goal to work really hard at something that's difficult that takes discipline

so that when you actually complete it, you feel a sense of satisfaction and self-improvement. I'm assuming the issue here is like trying to, you know, like races fill up and we're trying to, you know, sign up for a race in advance and like, okay, is eight months out? Because that's when this race fills up. Am I stupid or silly for signing up for something eight months out? And again, I think that's a little bit personal preference, but I'm assuming that's where this is coming from. It's not like you can just, oh, I did a power test in a run workout that indicates that I should be close to my best time ever and I'm going to sign up for a race next month. Right. As far as 70.3s go.

But you could always do a local thing. I guess for me personally, my fitness is not at like race fitness. And if I wanted to get ready and feel really good about racing a 70.3, I would want like from my current fitness of having swam like once a week for the past six months and done no bike workouts. and just on run training, I would want like four months. Tomorrow I start doing serious triathlon training and build into it and the whole thing. Yeah, four months, I feel like I really like that amount of time for someone who, Jen and Eric both, you're not new to triathlon. Like you're pretty...

Yeah, there's pre-existing fitness. Yes. And four months feels like a good amount of time. I feel like just like, the question here is almost like mentally emotionally, what feels like a good amount of time that you can dedicate to something that's not going to be like too long that you're going to be. like too long that you're going to burn out or whatever. Okay.

Next question here is from Chris. Hi, TTL. Should I buy an Orca Apex Float V2 or an Orca Apex Float V2 as this is my budget area? I'm half decent swimmer, 70 minute Iron Man distance. Love the pod. Cheers, Chris. So yeah, 70 minutes for an Iron Man is great. So do you guys know the difference between the float and the flow?

Yeah. The float is just a bit of a thicker wetsuit with more. with more flotation. Thicker in the shoulders, thicker in the arms. Definitely in the butt. Definitely in the butt. It would be a little better for someone with a poor body position or... Or a newer swimmer.

Like someone who's not as... Didn't grow up swimming. And then the flow is what Eric and I use. It's a little bit between the flex, which they have, which is uber flexible and less floaty, and the floaty. So the flow is kind of what most of the pro athletes use, I think, in the orcats.

range. I like it the best. I do wear the flow, float sometimes if it's really cold because it just has a little bit of extra neoprene. That's what I wore in Nemo Bay. Yeah, and Alcatraz. I wore that last year. So those are the things to consider is how good of a swimmer you are. Do you normally have a really low butt in the water if you don't have a wetsuit? If you do, then maybe the float is a good option because it brings you up to a better body position. But if you already have a good body position, the float could potentially bring you up too much and you feel like you're like too much over the top of the water where your legs are actually out of the water when you're kicking. Yep. And the flow is about $300 more expensive than the float. Are you sure? I'm just looking

that up. I was on the website earlier when I was kind of researching this question, but I could be wrong. I think the float is like $6.50 and the flow is $900 and something. Wow. I didn't realize it was that... That's how much high-end wetsuits cost. Well, I just, I didn't think that the float was considered an inferior wetsuit versus just like a different swim experience, you know? They talk about the flow like it's the top, top, top level of wetsuit that you can get in anything. So that's why it's so premiumly priced. So the flow is $9.75. The float is $619. and then the flex, which we were talking about with extremely thin shoulders, which I use sometimes if we're wearing a wetsuit in a pool.

Like if it's a really cold pool and I just want to wear a wetsuit, I'll wear the flex. But that's $750.50, so kind of in the middle. I don't know. If you're trying to budget it, I might go with the float. 100%. Because it's not that different in terms of comfort. I really like the float. I've raced in it.

Yeah. And it's $400 less. $400 less. and both. That's amazing. This is great. So not huge of a difference in the field. That's really nice to know. Yeah, you do definitely notice if you do back-to-back testing, and that's what we did. We went with the float, then went with the flow, we went with the flex, all back to back in the pool for like 100-meter reps. And the float felt a little bit more constricting in the shoulders because of the extra material. But if we hadn't worn the other one right before, I don't think I would have cared or noticed that it was

slightly less flexible. So I don't know, that might be my go. That might be my choice. Yeah. I think if, I mean, specifically this was about, Chris asked about budget. So probably makes sense for the flow. But if money were no object, I think for a 70 minute Iron Man swimmer, the, the flow would be the better wetsuit for him.

Yeah. Is it worth $350 more to get the flow? I don't know. Depends on your income. Not if budget is a consideration. Yeah. Cool. I would not do the flex, though, just because it's in the middle.

Like, the flex, I think, is ideal if you grew up swimming distance and putting on a wetsuit just makes you feel like your butt is like sky high. That's the suit for you if you got just like beautiful, gorgeous body position. And I remember you also saying that it is noticeably less like thermally. Like, it doesn't keep you as warm. Yeah. You guys, they also have the Apex 30, which is a $1,400 wetsuit. Why don't we have that?

I think that's a special edition, like 30th anniversary of Orca is what I remember. Do we get one? I didn't ask. I'll busy asking for my swim run. They look sick. They've got like gold lines on them. It's an exclusive piece of history. Did you miss the whole marketing push on this?

No, I saw it, but I was confused by it because I thought, could they possibly have made a wetsuit? better than the flow. But maybe it's not better. It's just... Wow. It's expensive. Yeah. Well, I mean, we could send them... I could send our contact

and email and be like, hey, I'm not necessarily asking for one of these, but we are curious. Not necessarily asking for one, but if it's better, I definitely want it. If it's like 10% better, then please send it. I could probably sell a couple of these bad boys.

Anyway. That's our answer on the wetsuit. If you really have no budget constraints, buy the apex 30. Yeah, I think it's sick. Yeah, exactly. And tell them TTL sent you. Yeah, exactly. Next question here is from Tina and Ollie.

Hi, guys, our question is pain cave related as we're planning on how to convert a garage into the perfect tri-gym. What considerations did you make with layout, equipment, storage, and particularly security for your pain cave garage? What did you find worked well and not so well over the? years and if you had to design a pain cave from scratch, how would you go about it? Thanks, Tina and Ollie. So you guys have a pretty dialed and awesome and famous pain cave. So I thought this would be a great question for you guys. What kind of things do you think about? I think that in a, honestly,

what makes such a big difference, and I'm pushing Eric to improve ours even more, is the flooring. If you have like yucky concrete floor that's dusty and dirty and feels like a garage, it takes away from the vibe of like a dialed pain cave, I think. So we have like... I like it to feel like a garage. No, it's fine if it feels like a garage, but it's dirty all the time. I'm just saying, like I like a little bit of roughness around the edge in my pain cave. That's all, because it's a cave.

We can get to, you know, a floor you can eat off of. Yeah, I've seen them and they look really nice. Are those the ones that are like puzzle piece fitting like rubber mat ones? Is that what you're talking about? No, we've got currently horse stall mats on the side of the garage that is our, pain cave and then the other side of the garage is the actual garage workshop spot where you know bike grease strips on the floor and stuff um but what paul is talking about is you can get like a floor treatment where they turn it to just like i don't even know like it looks like a countertop almost it's

so glossy and you know you could eat off of it oh i thought you was talking about those like rubberized kind of things you know what i'm talking about almost like what the uh what your kickers are on or something yeah no not that that like absorbs sweat kind of which I guess probably in the long run is not great exactly yeah but the in terms of equipment I think having a TV for your kicker is nice like a dedicated thing or an iPad um I think we're lucky to have a treadmill in our garage but bike storage like having the we get asked all the time what what bike storage we use do want to say Eric it's a rubber made track which you put the track on the wall and then you can put a you know um a about a

bike hook, you can put a hook for a rake or they got a whole bunch of of attachments you can put on there and that allows us to like really you can slide it either way each of these hooks so I can really dial in putting 12 bikes up instead of you know one or two and then if I put in a mountain bike in we can adjust it slightly and I think for me like space you know we keep the configuration that we have currently I like a lot because it's like Paula it pretty much is the only one who rides the trainer in the like in the summertime just in case there's a some some sort of a reason but we only need to have one kicker set up and having like one kicker

set up and then we can always put a second one out if we need or I put down the rollers and then it's just like it feels like there's room to breathe and you're not tripping over stuff and it's not claustrophobic and cluttered I like that a lot the TV stands that we have help with that a bit they're like a tripod style thing or just like mounting TVs on the wall you know not everything And having everything, Jane get in so hard that it feels like you don't have room to breathe. The last thing I'll say is just lighting. Like if you have a window or if you have some kind of lighting that's not like fluorescent bulbs. We actually have fluorescent bulbs, but it's pretty harsh.

So we got a new garage door that has windows on the side of it, like frosted windows. And that makes a big difference just to have the garage lit up naturally. And I don't know, little things like that make a big difference. Yeah, the vibes. you're suffering in there, you don't want to feel like you're in an OR. Yes. Just staring into the rest of your life. Well, good luck, Tina and Ollie.

And send a pick when you get it done. I'd love to see it. You can send it to me. Next question is from Wilson. Hey, Pot, I had a 70.3 in early May and have been spending my fitness gains on every sprint that comes along. I love that. Next up in a week is a 5X super try, which I just signed up for yesterday.

Five times 125 meters down current swim. That's my kind of swim. That's a lot of... That's a lot of times. So, yeah, 2.4 mile bike and a 1K run. Literally rinse and repeat. I figure this is all going to be about transitions. I plan to do this with flat pedals,

which, sadly, I had to purchase, and a local road bike, was to minimize shoe changes. The question is, what else would you consider with the possibilities of all those transitions, pacing, fueling, optimizations, etc. One of my concerns

is that my transitions will be so fast that I won't get enough of a break before the next event to catch my breath. So this does equate to a pretty close

to a sprint triathlon in total. It's just the circuit nature of it is pretty wild. Five times is a lot. Yeah, it makes the transitions important, I'd say. I feel like this is a very

interesting point to make, though, is that, you know, as pros, we don't think of transition as like an opportunity to catch our breath at all. That is part of the race and there is time to be made there. So, I mean, you got,

but that I guess would impact how you pace a little bit. You can't get out of the water, completely gassed and blown up, anticipating a five-minute break in transition. You have to think of this as like, hey, I'm starting this swim, but it's really the start of a two-hour effort or an hour and 45 hour effort,

how would I, you know, trade that appropriately? I want to know about the logistics of what you're doing with your shoes between the run and the swim each time. Kick them off. And then what? Just right next to your bike.

You leave them next to your bike. So you run by your bike, you leave them there and then run out to the swim. Yeah, that's how super league. Got it. How these works. You have to like, the finish line of each round

would be like running into transition. And then you take your shoes off, leave them next to your bike. Your transition is essentially reset and you run back out. Some things that they do in Super League are like you take off your cap and goggles and you just stuff them in your suit so that you are able to, you don't have to pick them up or you put them back down in transition. They don't get lost. They don't get stepped on.

Oh, I see. And then as you're like running the last, you know, 400 meters into transition to finish your run, you're putting on your swim cap and you're putting on your goggles rather than standing in transition doing it. Wait a second. So Super League also does this where they'll do, because of your Super League thing that I've watched, when they finish the run, they have like a few minutes to reset before the swim. They're not like right back. I think this is like an older model of Super League.

So you're right, Nick. Every Super League I've watched has slightly different formats, but they have had the format where it's swim bike run, swim by ground, swim by run consecutively back to back. That adds up to a sprint or an Olympic or I forget. But it changes the dynamic so much because you do. get the gaps on the run and then set off on the swim that way. So it's a really fun race to watch. But going horizontal to vertical five times is really hard. So I mean, I would say if someone for doing this for fun, maybe do take the transitions as like a little bit of a breather. So you can like focus on the next thing. Because the last thing you want to do is go out too hard. And then the rest of it is just so miserable.

So there is like kind of a pacing element to this similar to doing. an uphill run or something like that. You feel great at the start, but it can really quickly go downhill. So just really thinking about that as you start the race and taking deep breaths and all the moments when you're not actually doing something, like in transition. Reset for like even 10 seconds and then go again. Okay, so that's a great point. I made me think of would you then pace the run kind of like almost intentionally positive

split it so that the end of your run, you're not gasping for breath and then you have to do this hypoxic swimming thing, would you run the last whatever little couple hundred meters a little slower? I mean, in Super League, they're not doing that. But yeah, if I'm doing five rounds and I'm doing it kind of more for fun, maybe, or just the run from your transition back to the water is a little more joggy. Maybe it's just like set out a plan. Like, I'm going to take five deep breaths in transition.

Or I'm going to run the last 500 meters of the run slow. Or I'm going to run really slow and take lots of deep breaths from transition to the water. or some sort of a, give yourself a spot where like this is where I'm going to mentally reset. Another thing I might consider is using two or three pairs of shoes and then not having soaking wet shoes. Yeah. Those puppies are going to be wet. That's interesting. Like I would maybe wear, have two or three pairs and like wear one pair, two pair, three pair, go back to the first pair and the second pair.

Just so they have time to like dry out a little. That is the downside of this like wearing the running shoes on the bike thing. It's like you're putting those, your bike shoes can get as well. wet as they want to be, it's not a big deal, but wet running shoes is all of a sudden a thing. Yeah, that's a problem. If you have five pairs of shoes, I would almost suggest that. That's kind of fun. It's like a little fashion show every time you come around again. They're like, so your transition zone is actually only one foot wide. Why do you have your five shoes? Why is their shoe store underneath your bike?

That sounds fun though. Good luck. Yeah. Would you guys want, does this sound fun to you at all? Would you do this? Yeah. Five sounds like a little dizzying to me. Three, heck yeah. Five is like, ooh. Yeah, who came up to five. That's a lot. That's a lot. It's also just a lot to freaking organize. Like, people are going to be lapped all over the place. No one's going to know what leg they're on. People can count to three. People can not count to five. See, I had an idea for a version of a thing like this of how to do like a local event, but you do it cyclocross style. You know, or like, crit style. But like cyclocross is more famous for this.

of where it's like we're going to go for an hour. And so like everybody is going to do like an hour plus whatever, finish the lap that they're on. So no matter how many times you get lapped, it doesn't really matter. And then just like your result says like they did 14 laps instead of 15 laps or whatever. So like you don't, I think that would be a fun way. Yeah. Oh, that is interesting. Okay.

Well, next question here is from Louisa. Hi, tripod. I have possibly controversial question, but I'm genuinely curious. what's the obsession around shaving grams off a bike? I totally get that a lighter bike can mean more speed when all else is equal, but sometimes I wonder if we're missing the forest for the trees. What sparked this was hearing two of my friends last week to bait whether to upgrade to a chain that's just 11 grams lighter, which struck me as a little extreme,

especially since we're all middle of the pack age group athletes. So my real question is, is reducing weight on the bike, say one kilo, equivalent to dropping one kilo in body weight? does the total system weight of a rider and bike matter equally, or does minimizing bike weight have a bigger impact for physics-related reasons I don't quite grasp? Thanks so much for the awesome content each week. I really appreciate the insight and humor you bring to the sport.

Louisa. Very interesting question. More questions like this, everybody. Yeah, I love it. Man, how to tack this? Because four different things came to mind from me. But one thing I think that is important to understand is that some people love tricking out their bike.

It's like a hobby, you know? Some people like whatever. And that person's name is Nick. Yeah. Of course. Like whatever you're into, but like, do you need a chain that's 11 grams lighter? No, but it's fun. And you can talk to your buddies about it and send them the link to it.

And maybe it's purple, you know, whatever. Like some people are just, that's what you do. Like that's a motorsports thing. It's in cycling to a degree. And there's a whole website dedicated, you know, weightweeney's.com. No matter how much you weigh, it's fun to pick up a bike that's this light of a feather. That's the other thing. You can't jump up and down and be like, oh, wow, I feel so light.

But you can pick up a bike and be like, dang, that's impressive. Yes. And then it's just like a slippery slope, you know. All of a sudden you start thinking about it a little bit and then you think, oh, well, that chain's not that expensive. I haven't bought something for my bike lately. And also it's like buying this train for $100 more is way easier than losing a kilo. Yeah, that ice cream really, it reminds itself that it's there every day. As far as like rider total system weight versus bike weight,

I think the biggest thing on a bike is like rotational weight. So lighter wheels generally do make a bigger difference than you just like not having a cliff bar in your pocket. Just because of like the effort that it takes to spin it up and et cetera. I do also think like to a degree like a five pound lighter bike as you're out of the saddle climbing. is going to, you know, you can throw it around a little bit more. It feels light underneath you. But as far as like a TT bike, seated climbing, you're not feeling that. In triathlon, both those examples, the rotational weight and the out of the saddle thing

have such less relevance to triathlon. Not if you're doing T100 with six laps and a hill. Exactly. You're right. Or you're in a 5x super sprint? Right. Yeah. But for Kona, I mean, this is why we saw like the P5X and like the Canyon bikes are wild

heavy. The trek speed concept wildly heavy. Like they kind of designed them with Kona in mind. And certainly, uh, iron, generally iron man racing is flatter. Unless you're doing something in like knees. So the weight is just like such a non-issue. If it's just meant to go fast in a straight line and be good in a crosswind.

Also, if you lose, uh, body weight, you lose power sometimes. Like, depending on what you're starting with. Obviously people have body fat they can lose, which would ultimately make you lighter with the same amount of power

maybe on your muscles. Yeah, yeah. But if you go down that slippery slope of, oh, I'm just going to try to make myself as lighter as I can, then your power will decrease and that could be a dangerous precedent to set for yourself.

I can speak for middle of the pack age roopers that most of us are not at risk of hitting that point, but I still like Eric's point, which is like it's fun to shave grams off the bike if you can afford it. It's a fun little project and most of us are doing triathlon for fun. So if it adds to the fun, I fully support spending an extra $100 for an 11 gram lighter chain. Yeah. There's also like the run and the swim to consider. If you're going to lose weight on

the bike, you might suffer in the swim. I don't know. There's there's triathlons so different than running where it's like lighter equals faster. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. So I don't want to turn this into a body composition question. But generally we're saying, mess with your body weight less. And just, yeah, the bike thing is fun. Because I think about this a lot too, where I think like,

why are you spending $500 on this arrow helmet when you train three hours a week? Like do an extra bike ride. Not in terms of body composition, but in terms of just fitness. You have so much more to gain in your fitness than you do from two watts with the arrow helmet.

Because you can do both. You can be sitting at work, bored, and on whatever website you buy a helmet from, and then after work, you can go ride your bike for three hours. Yeah, it's the easiest.

We're programmed to like search for all the little things that we can do to improve. Of course. Of course. But the truth is, if you could lose 10 pounds of just fat, that's like a $10,000 different

in a bike. Yeah. Cool. Well, Louisa, Yes, you're right, but also your friends are also right. Okay, and next question here, this will be our last question here. It's kind of a fun one from Liz. Hi, TTR fam, long-time listener and podcast supporter.

Thank you, Liz, for being a podcast supporter. And anyone else who made it this front of the podcast, be like Liz. I just moved to Southern California from the Great Lakes. What lovely weather you have here? Yeah, compared to the Great Lakes, I'm sure. And I've started surfing. What are your thoughts on wearing a triathlon wetsuit for surfing? So far, I've worn my long-sleeve blue 70.

figured good enough for Alcatraz, good enough for some waves. But should I get a dedicated surfing wetsuit? Will I mess up the one on my board? Thanks for all you do. Keep inspiring the active lifestyle vibes. Liz. Oh, I have so many thoughts on this. But Eric, what do you think?

As a wetsuitter yourself? Exactly. I think tri-wetsuits are way too fragile. Agreed. You will definitely be messing that up on the surfboard. So if this is an old wetsuit that you don't mind messing up and you're just trying to decide if you're into surfing or not, sure, great, but I don't think that's a long-term solution by any means.

They're not as warm. No, not as warm. I don't know how much of it was a warmth and issue down there, Nick? It can be an issue in the winter. I have a three-four. In surfing wetsuits, they measure the thickness of like in two different places. And the three-fourers, I've never been cold in the water. Yeah, up here in Oregon, I have a four-five hood in a typical swimming,

one of our orca wetsuits would not not cut it. Oh, really? Surf suit. Also, I don't know. Coolness depends on how, you know, aggressive your local surf scene is. And if you want to be cool and or have people, you know, be mad and call you a kook and all that stuff,

showing up in a blue 70s one wetsuit. Those things I can think of. I'm sure the shoulder flexibility would be nice for paddling, but I just don't think that's really that much of an issue. No. I just got to imagine that you're going to wear any good hydroninamic coating off the chest immediately and start wearing into the actual neoprene itself. And then I would think you're at risk on the biceps of just rubbing that against the board.

And just like that neoprene is so thin and fragile on a swimming suit. Yeah. And like surf suits are designed for you to be able to sit on the board with. There's just so many little things your butt, like just the flexibility of, the suit in general. Surf suits can be, there's just because so many people surfs compared to triathlons, surf suits can be

really affordable. Yeah. You get like $300 pretty nice one. Oh, even less. Yeah, $300 is for a pretty nice one. Yeah. It's also just a less like high performance material. Totally. Yeah, they don't have the, I fear what it's called, but that Japanese rubber that is used to.

Yamamoto. Yeah, exactly. So. The answer is if you're just trying surfing and you want to wing it for a day or two to see if you like it, go for it, but then you should invest in a specific one. Yeah. In order to preserve your triathlon one and not look like a weirdo. Paula, are we ever going to see you surfing? No.

Why not? You're too afraid to upstage Eric and shred the gnar? Do some fast cutbacks? No, I just like don't like waves and I feel like I have enough... Danger in your life. I have enough things to do. I don't particularly like being cold. Yeah.

I'm a little bit scared of sharks. Wait a second. You know what we didn't talk about last week was the fact, and I don't even know if you know this, I'm sure you eventually saw it, that you guys in Vancouver, you swam and then there were orcas in the water with you. Yeah, I did see that.

That is pretty epic and a little bit scary, actually. Yeah. I didn't know before. Didn't come to our attention before. I mean, I think they, breached, you know, like five minutes after you guys got on the bike. Yes. It was after our swimming.

Yeah, but. Yeah. It was on the broadcast. You were biking. They were in the vicinity while we were swimming. They were in the vicinity, yeah, for sure. They were just like, oh, there's cameras around. Show a little hump.

Show a little thing. Yeah. Does that kind of scare you at all, Paula? No, not in the race. I didn't think about wildlife at all. But in the practice swim, I'd gotten there late. Not late. I was still within the hour of practice swimming,

but everyone else went on the bus and got there early. So by the time I showed up, everyone else was gone. And I was no way was I going to do a full kilometer loop all by myself. But I started swimming out and I look up and there's a kayaker directly beside me. And she's a lifeguard. And they had been hired for that hour to come and like supervise us. So she did a full lap swimming right beside me, which was so nice of her.

And I kept thanking her and asking her if she wanted to go back. And she's like, no, I'm literally paid to do this. So that took the fear away because it did for sure cross my mind when I was out there solo previewing the course. I was a little nervous about it in Nemo Bay. Oh, yeah. Some of the bigger bodies of water that we were in. For sure. Yeah.

So do you think that seeing the orcas after immediately when we got out of the water, they'll reconsider even having the race. there again? I don't know. Apparently this is quite unusual. But I thought there are Orcas right now. I think that's terrifying. That's terrifying. Yeah, of course it's unusual, but it happened.

So it's not that unusual. I'm just saying I, yeah. So I wonder if they would do it again. I'm sure that would come up in a conversation about the race. No, they're just using it as a Instagram post. I got to think the race directors are kind of like, Does somebody want to get some like orca traffic data? Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

They're pretty smart. Can they read the road closures? No, not to come? Yeah, some like sonar buoys. I don't know, something. Wow. Yeah, that's crazy. Wow.

Imagine if we all, imagine if the front pack got taken out and then suddenly I'm in the front pack? Yeah, I just, that's like a freaking horror movie. Those are the questions that we had this week. We're back, back to our regular grind. I'm going to be up and bend soon. I was talking to Eric about this. Our goal is to get real, real fit this summer. We're going to get into really good shape.

Yeah, I didn't really get to talk about it when we were talking about what's upcoming, but I have the same sort of feeling of Paula. Like I've been looking forward to this month of time as, you know, she's looking at it as a little bit of break from racing, but I was looking at it as a break from her racing in which I can maybe get on a little bit more of a concerted schedule and line up some races, and I'm pretty excited about that. I have kind of the opposite feeling where I've been doing free-form training for long enough now that I'm craving a little bit of structure and preparation and build.

Yeah. Yeah, man. I'm all for it. Come to the coast. Pick up your new camera and we'll do 40-hour weeks. Okay. Oh, wow. 40-hour weeks.

We're just going to ride our bikes to the coast and then we'll run home. There's the 40 hours right there. Yeah, exactly. Sounds dreamy. Nick, I'm going to look up right now on a velo air, some flights for you. Our favorite airline, Avelo Air. The bus of the sky. You don't even know if they're really ever going to take off.

But when they do, they do it for real cheap. Our favorite airline. They only fly on Monday, Wednesday, Fridays, because in the between, they're fixing the airplanes. Yeah, exactly. No, they're not that bad. I never flew in them, actually. Their bike fees are probably atrocious. Yeah, I probably just wouldn't bring my bike.

I would hope that I can borrow something that you guys have there. No, you now own the bike that you would have borrowed. Yeah, that is the problem, isn't it? You have to bring a bike. You have to bring a bike. You must. You must. You must bring a bike.

Why is it one off the road bike? Because I'm trying to ride the TT bike as much as possible to prep for Iron Man, Wisconsin. How long until that? September 7th is the race, and that's why I want to ride that bike. But I was actually maybe not going to put any of that. in there. Straight back into the conversation.

We just took a little brief 15 minute break as our internet crashed. But thanks for hanging out with us, everybody. Yeah, that was fun. That was fun. I'm a bit on a high still from my race this weekend since I remember looking at the overall podium when I first did that race in 2017 and thinking, wow, that's crazy. Like, that could never be me. And then to be on there, it felt like a true, real.

progress that I earned myself. That's awesome, man. Stoke for you. Thank you. Yeah. I guess we'll see everybody talk at you next week. Yeah, keep your eyes peeled for that new TTL release. Oh yeah. It's good. It's good looking. I'm stoked. Okay. Bye. Bye. Later.