That Triathlon Life Podcast - Ironman 20 meter draft zone rule change, TT bike position changes, and more!

Episode Date: January 29, 2026

This week we kick things off with a discussion about IRONMAN’s new 20-meter draft zone rule change and how it could impact racing. From there, we jump into a listener-submitted Shred or Bed before getting to your questions. This week we discussed:How fast can the average Joe really get?Are higher hands worth it on a TT bike?How we think we’d do on a game showJust how laid back is XTERRA?How important body weight is to fitness and performanceTubeless tire air loss and the risk of unseating a beadEspresso machine recommendationsWhat to bring bike shop mechanics as a thank you giftHow to judge whether an epic adventure is actually safe for youPaula’s favorite song and Nick’s favorite movieMassage guns: helpful or harmful?How retired athletes stay connected to their sportA big thank you to our podcast supporters who keep the podcast alive! To submit a question for the podcast and to become a podcast supporter, head over to ThatTriathlonLife.com/podcast

Hey, everyone. Welcome to that triathlon life podcast. I'm Eric Lagerstrom. I'm Paula Finley. I'm Nick Goldston. And we are psyched to be back. It's been a little bit since we recorded a podcast, actually. Paula and I are back home in Bend just for a few days here before we head to down south for a little bit of a training camp. If you're new here, Paula and I are both professional athletes. Nick is an amateur athlete. We all love triathlon, love multi-sport and that's what we talk about here on this podcast. So welcome. Okay, so the big news that just came out today as of the recording of this podcast, which is Monday, is that Ironman says that they did their own testing and on their own accord have changed the pro draft zone from 12 meters to 20 meters. This is what the T-100 PTO has been doing since its inception. I think

there was a poll that went around and it seems like the majority, if not almost all, of pro athletes are on board with this change. But wow, it's like it's a whole can of worms. It really changes everything massively. Does it mean anything to either of you

when people bring up the point of, oh, well, there's perfectly allowed to draft in the swim, you get right on someone's feet, there's a big advantage there. Or what about running behind someone the entire race in a 70.3 and then coming around them at the end,

how is it any different than on the bike? This is the way the sport was designed. I totally agree. There's to a certain extent, like, this is the way the sport was designed. Yes, drafting on the bike legally is like a part of the way it's been. Does the 20 meter thing? Yeah, that changes it.

And I guess if we're all in favor of changing it, it's just, I mean, man, things are going to be different. Like, records might not fall in Kona, you know. Like, there's a lot of implications. and how does this many people, you know, we have like 80 person start list sometimes at races. And like, is there enough room for everybody to space 20 out? And the men's and women's pro-dynamic and age group athletes, it's huge. Okay, so Paula, since you're the only one of us who's ever raced the 20-meter draft zone.

That's not true. Have you? Oh, Eric, yes. Is this some T-100s? You did. Excuse you? He did some PTO race. Yeah, I did POTO.

I forgot. Yeah. Since its inception, PTO has been 20 meters. So Challenge Daytona in 2020 was the first time they did that and they've kept it like that. And I think challenge races were like that as well before. But since I do both T100 and Iron Man racing, when I do a T100 with Race Ranger in your space 20 meters, it looks like that's how it should be. Yeah. It's appropriate.

I mean, when you're space 12, it's absolutely crazy. And as they saw in this testing they did in Tucson, you don't need to do testing to know this. It's obvious. It's a huge advantage at 12 versus 20. So of course, the sport's always been 12 and that is fine as well. But I think it is an interesting change and maybe allows for a little bit more of a time trial-esque vibe versus PAC dynamics. Nick, I don't disagree with you, though. It's like, cool. So are we going to do time trial starts so that swimmers get the? full advantage of being a good swimmer. You say that's stupid, but there's plenty of swimmers that would make a huge difference for. So, okay, my overarching question here, and it's a matter of, Paula, your own personal experience, Eric also would love to hear your opinion on this. So we agree that obviously there was a large aerodynamic advantage at 12 meters. There is a far lesser aerodynamic advantage now at 20.

But it is still something, right? riding with someone 20 meters ahead of you or riding with no one ahead of you, we can agree there is a difference and it's not so infinitesimally small that it's unnoticeable. It is still noticeable. Am I right, Paula? Yeah. I think this is like 99% psychological and like 1% actual wattage difference. I guess my question is, what do you think is greater? The 20 meter draft do you get on the bike or running right behind someone on the run?

Are they even? Maybe those are similar. The 20 meter draft. Actually, you know it, if there's a headwind on the run, for sure you get a bigger advantage by running behind somebody into the wind. Especially at the speeds that pros are running. I just think this like does not matter at all. I think that having someone in front of you 20 meters is a carrot if it's a psychological

advantage no matter what. And if you're riding alone, you don't have the same effect. But there is a draft advantage at 20 for sure. If the wind is zero and it's perfect. But you guys, I'm so distracted because the ocean side start list is full. The women's is full? Yeah, I mean, I think it's just a cap for the total number of pros. Is it the same as always, like 75?

I don't know, but what are people doing at home early January, like waiting and refreshing their screens to get, oh my gosh. Way border than we are, that's for sure. I think the problem is like, I raised, the people that raised the T-100 all the way until December 15th, we finally get this breather and we're like, we're definitely not thinking about signing up for raises for at least six weeks. and we're still within that window. Yeah.

Anyway, apparently Texas is also almost full. It's like... Damn. You just have to get on every single start list that you want January 1st. Well, is this a flaw in the system a bit that pros are not penalized for signing up for every single race? And then they all fill up. Well, you do get penalized. I think if you don't, if you get on it and then you don't do it.

Or if you... I don't know. There is a penalty. It's like maybe a window for late withdrawal or something. Yeah, you used to be able to like, oh, I can't do Oceanside. Can I defer it to Chattanooga? Now there's like, you have to know within three weeks. So it is different now.

But I mean, for the most part, Nick, I think yes is the answer to your question. Well, then everyone's just like, yeah, it's January, whatever. I'm going to sign up for every possible North American race. Then I'll go to one out of five. My foot's broken, but it might not be broken by then. So I might as well sign up. Yeah, especially if you're paying for like, like the Ironman season pass or whatever where you just pay $1,600 and every race the actor is then covered versus like, you know, picking one individual race at a time because then you're paying per race.

Yeah. I mean, to like Iron Man's credit, they do a good job, I think of like regularly sending on an email being like, hey, if you don't think you're going to race this anymore, please tell us and withdraw. So people can roll into the start list, but, you know, from the wait list. Wow. That's crazy. That's crazy. What are we going to do? Well, the funny thing is on the age grouper side of things, the talk is that the price of

Oceanside went up and it is now, it's extremely expensive. Oceanside is an extremely expensive race to do as an age grouper, and that's also sold out already. So it's like, okay, it's expensive. Yeah, exactly. It's like when people complain about cost of living in Bend or the cost of living here is, yeah, it's because people really want to live here. Yeah, I think it's like, I think it's like.

kind of in the similar position of Alcatraz where it's becoming a bucket list event. Totally. I just do it every year because it's there. And there's plenty of people who are like, I don't care what it costs. I want to do this one time. I get it. I've been there as a spectator now several years watching Paula race and you too, Eric, and it's

freaking amazing. It is such a cool race to be at even just as a spectator. Yeah. I agree. I think part of the problem with the signing up is in my brain, it's still early January and Oceanside is in April. Usually. However, However, it's end of March and it's no on the ground.

However, it's late January and actually Oceanside is in March. So it's not even that much too early. Not that much time. In my head, I'm like, this thing's like half a year away. Why am I signing up? No, it's not. Yeah, right. Right.

That does happen. Actually, maybe I won't race. Come to think of it. I can't be ready in eight weeks. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Well, we're back here to our regular posts, our regular outposts.

And we have so many questions on the pod today. And I didn't try to fill them up. They were just, all of the ones that you selected were, there were so many good ones. So we have a lot of stuff to get through to there. Let's do it. Eric, before I get into that,

is there anything TTL related that we want to talk about? Because by the time this comes out next week, we will be in the camps. Yeah, so next podcast after this is actually going to be a live podcast that we're going to be recording from Lake Las Vegas, where we're hosting TTF,

base camp. This is our first foray into designing an experience for people. And I just, I feel like it fits in perfectly. We've been building towards this for a really long time. Like, creatively, like we did a YouTube channel. We did a podcast. We have a development team. Like, our apparel that we put out is ultimately just like a creative expression of things that we want to wear. And this, like, designing a week-long experience for people is like the ultimate, like, creative outlet of being able to hopefully impact somebody's happiness for like a week straight. So that's what we're going to be doing next week. That's the biggest thing.

I'm wearing, I know you can't see it, but I'm wearing an incredibly awesome. It looks great. It looks so good. And I have felt it in my hands. It feels great. Feels good. Looks good. Beanie, Tuk, depending from where you hail.

We've got a winter launch that's coming out that's kind of like retro ski themed as we usually do. So keep an eye out for that as well. Love it. I can't wait. I'm so excited. Me too. Over to you, Nick.

The first thing we're going to do here is a listener submitted hot or not. And this is from Sarah. Sarah starts by saying, I was so sad to miss the phone call and the $50 gift card. Now I know my phone screens, my calls. Thank you for actually calling me. Also, I did change my voicemail. I had no idea it sounded like that. I don't know if you guys remember Sarah's voicemail.

Since I've now had a little time to prepare, and Nick mentioned he has an entire folder of notes saved for games. This isn't going in the folder, Sarah. We're doing it live. I figured I'd take a shot at creating one myself. One second. So is this not shred or bed? This is different.

This is a shredder bed. Okay, all right, sweet. I thought you said hot or not. You said hot or not. I'm sorry. They are the same thing, but we just have, we rebranded it. Yeah, yeah, we rebranded. Yeah, so this is, here's a shredder bed for a quick fun segment.

Good. Huh. Okay, first one, wearing your race shirt to the grocery store in the, the same day you raced. So it's like your finisher shirt. You guys never wear those, right? I mean, like if you didn't bring anything else, everything else is dirty, then sure. I think it's the one time that I personally enjoy wearing it is the day of the race.

Like I think, remember Iron Man Wisconsin? I was wearing my hoodie. Yeah. Like graduation hoodie. I guess my brain goes to like read the room slash the community. And are they psyched that the race was there? are they like these freaking guys I wasn't able They like go to church this morning

Yeah, right Okay, great Next one, calling it a short run When it's anything over 10K BED, lame Just own it You did, just say what you did There's a few more just like that

So I'm curious to see what you guys say Three, bragging about not tapering That's a hard bed for me Yeah, hard bed Hard bed Because then if you do well at the race Exactly Despite not tapering

Exactly And then if you don't do well, it's because you didn't taper. Clearly, because I didn't taper, you know. Yeah. It's like when someone comes up and he's like, wow, you're so strong today. And you're like, oh, I'm feeling bad. Like, I wasn't even trying that hard. It's like, okay, now you just suck.

Now I hate you. Just accept the compliment. Number four, saying I'm more of a cyclist when you're bad at running. This is, I'm guilty of this. I think that's fine. I'm not going to say shred. I mean, if you were like, if you were like, In the depths of a triathlon specific conversation with someone,

but don't freaking just drop that in the middle of a run with somebody. Especially, back to what we were saying, especially if you're stronger than they are. If you're a better runner than they are, don't, you don't say that. Read the room. Yeah. Next one.

Training with no music so you can build mental toughness. No, I'm out. Oh, I thought Paula, Paula shreds on this. right? For the run sometimes, yeah. I think it's not good to use music as a crutch. Unless you're training indoors, then you're always allowed to use it. Because it's miserable. Yeah, I don't do

like hard runs that are like sub 90 minutes with music. Like if we're doing 10 by AK or whatever, no, I don't do that with music. But I have started allowing myself, if it's like a three and a half hour trail run, some

ridiculousness, I will allow myself to bring music on that because otherwise it's mind numbing. It's not a mental toughness thing though. It's more I do it so I can get used to myself breathing. And so I can like hear the rhythm of my steps. It's if you drown out all the noise that's involved with running, it becomes very foreign when you're doing a race.

This is what I like about like the, I have the H2O audios, but like the shocks do the same thing where like it's the bone conduction thing. So you still do hear some ambient noise. And I have those down kind of low. and listen to a song that I know. So it's like kind of set in a vibe, but I still hear things. I have a shredder bed.

Kind of like that. When you guys have a one air pod in on the bike, but it's so windy, you can't even hear it, except for like some annoying noise coming out of it. Do you just turn it off or do you let the music keep burning? I let it keep running. I do know what you're talking about, though. Yeah. Because I think it's more annoying to have it playing, but you can't really hear it because

it's so windy. So I just took mine out today. Okay, I have a shredder bed then. Do you guys ever get to the point if the effort gets difficult enough where music actually feels like a hindrance. Yeah. Depending on the song. Sometimes a song can come on when I'm like working really hard and like that is not at all.

Yeah. And I can. I'm like just off silence. It's too much. My brain is overwhelmed. Off or like skip or. Wow. You guys must go so hard.

Well, I just like sometimes I like to listen to like discover weekly versus just like this is, you know, I'm listening to like. Yeah. At what effort level are you going where you're? actively annoyed by your easement. I got some news for you that I think I've spent a little bit a higher amount of time on the brink

of death at like my average workout intensity level is like a little bit closer to brink of death than you. I don't know about that. To where like yeah, sometimes a certain piece of music can make me furious.

Okay. If I'm doing an FTP test, I'm 10 minutes in and I pause the music because I can no longer handle the music. Okay. I'm not that intense. This is like once a year type of a situation. Yeah. I just feel like it's too much.

I wonder if that's because you're a musician though and you're very analytical with music. Maybe. A lot of people are just passively listening to me. They're not thinking about it, but you're actively like, do I like these lyrics? What is this melody? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wouldn't I done that there. Right.

Interesting choice. I often think that. Bold move, Codd. Yeah, no wonder you have to. You're trying to focus on your. bike test. Yeah. All right.

So your opinion doesn't count. That's fair. Next one. Waring your Iron Man finisher gear years later. Yeah. Way cooler than the day out.

Oh, really? Ideally like 30 years later. Yeah. Ideally 30. Yeah. Like I see Mark Allen walking along with like a

1987 like Iron Man white. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I think anything over 10 years old for a race t-shirt is cool. Yeah. Actually, Paula bought a race

like quarter zip from a thrift shop. It is super cool in Canada from her sister's thrift shop. What about a guy who I ran into at the coffee shop near here who was wearing a Kona from 1995 shirt, but it wasn't his, it was his dad's. I think that's okay. That's kind of cool. It's got a story. You got the story

out of it. Fair. Yeah, I did go up and talk to him because of it. I feel like that's so far back that that's just like a really cool shirt. Yeah. That's fine. But I do kind of think, like I I wrote the chairlift recently with someone who was wearing anaheim ducks hockey jersey. So I started talking to him about hockey. And he's like, oh, I have no idea about hockey.

I just bought this at a thrift shop. So I think if you're wearing a shirt or something, you should have, you should have like some awareness of the thing. Yeah, I agree. Well, there's a few more here, but I think they're kind of repeats of what we've done. So I think we'll end it there. Thanks again for being such an amazing podcast. This is from Sarah. I genuinely love what you all do.

Can't wait to see you at Oceanside. I've rather enjoyed this spontaneous shredder bed. Normally what we do around this time in the podcast is that we give away something to one of our wonderful podcast supporters. We have no ads on this podcast. The podcast exists purely because of the people who are podcast supporters and generally each week we try to give something away. Unfortunately this week,

we literally do not have time to go to the post office to mail something to someone. So we're just going to put a pause on that and come back to it next. week. We apologize and thank you for your support. Everyone so much. Thanks, Eric. Beautifully said. I think we need to acknowledge that the world is completely f***ed right now. Because I feel really stupid doing anything. Yeah. I feel stupid posting. I feel stupid doing the podcast when people like... No, it's, it's so hard. It's like we feel like we're here

to bring some happiness to people's lives to talk about a thing that everyone is passionate about, but we also have a platform. I think we need to say it. So protesters, being killed is not in line with how we think the world should run. And we all feel embarrassed that we're associated with a country and a system that seems to be forgiving it at the very least right now. It's unconstitutional. And I was watching the, what is it, the prime minister of Canada giving his speech at, I can't remember what that world economic thing was at. But he's talking about like, here.

what Canada is going to do and how we're moving forward, et cetera, et cetera. And I'm watching it and like, wait, that's what I thought the United States stood for. And that's like what I want to be a part of. And that's what I think is the right thing to do. And it feels like this ship is casting off without a bunch of people in the U.S. that feel this way and are just, like, it's so insanely frustrating. You're talking like the way that I feel like. No, I feel very like. I felt like we shouldn't have even done a podcast this week. But I came back to like, you know, some people, people do need an escape from it. And if you're looking at your phone and all you're seeing is this horrible, the current events that are going on, it's depressing. I mean, I can't take my eyes off

of it. It's just, it's, you can't stop looking, but you don't want to know. It's like this crazy feeling. But us doing the podcast and talking about things beside this, I think is, I don't know, healthy in some ways for people to be distracted a little bit. But if you're in the U.S., and we have a lot of listeners that are not in the U.S., and they maybe don't hear as much of it, but it's all that I'm thinking about all the time now. It's crazy.

Like, Eric, I'm asking you questions about it, like, a thousand times a day. Yeah, it's unavoidable. It's just, it's mortifying to watch and feel as helpless as we do. And if there's any... You feel very helpless. But then also, I was debating, like I don't want to use my social media as a platform for politics, but it's gone beyond politics a little bit. It's like humanitarian issues.

Feels like injustice. I struggle with this all the time because I want to talk about this stuff, but I'm like, I know that people follow us, us three specifically because of this kind of escape, I think, a little bit that is sport and photography. Yeah. But it feels like it's coming into the point where like, all right, well, at what point are you complicit in this if you're just sitting tacitly? by and not saying something about it. Yeah, yeah, that's where I'm struggling. Exactly. So anyway, we said something. We don't know what we're going to do. We did say something and we took a stance, which is people should not be killed in the streets for protesting. Yes. That's not even, I could go in a, so. You're right, but it's like, is that so,

brave to say that? Yeah. That feels like pretty simple. Anyway, just know that in our hearts, as we're answering these questions, this is what's happening in the back of our heads. I just hope that, like, I know, people that are, aren't in the U.S. right now. I don't think they have this feeling of hatred towards America. Like, I think people know that there are good people in the U.S. It's towards what's going on. God, you certainly hope so. Like, that there's a lot of people here. It's not just one big ball of, yeah, I don't know. But I don't think, yeah, I don't think that, I think other countries are like, what is going on? But they don't hate the people. Oh, yeah. We're also like,

what is going on. So, yes, we are also like what is going on. Okay, anyway. Next thing. Anything we can do, we will do, but we're waiting to find out what that is. Yeah, exactly. It's scary, though. Yep. It's scary.

Okay, changing gears here a little abruptly and intentionally to podcast questions submitted by the listener. You can submit your questions or grievances for the American political system at that triathlonlife.com slash podcast. I'm kidding. I guess you could. I guess. No, please don't. Please don't we have quite enough. And you can also become a podcast supporter there, which as Eric mentioned is the only way that this podcast stays financially afloat.

So we really appreciate that. First question here is from Adam. Thanks for the weekly pod. Always excited to get to Thursday. What do you think the ceiling is? I love this question. What do you think the ceiling is for an average person willing to go all in with training? Obviously, we can't all be yon, blue, or Paula.

I like, wow. How does that feel? How does that feel? Yeah. Not me? Sorry, Eric, you didn't make the cut. But how good do you think most people can get? Kona qualifier, four hour 70.3?

Adam. I love, I love this question. I think this is really interesting. I feel like this is the nests of triathlon. Like, this is what triathlon is about, this idea that you at 29 to 34 years old could find your true calling and if you work hard enough you can be on the podium at

Iron Man races which historically has been relatively true there's athletes like Jesse Thomas that started very late in life and had this meteoric rise and they found their thing I think it's getting harder

but man average there's a lot of you know question mark variables here of like what is average and how hard and all in what do these mean do you think Jesse Thomas though was not genetically gifted for

for travel? Of course. Of course. He had a fantastic like collegiate career in steeplechase. He was very strong. He was, you know, had some propensity for swimming. So this is not an average person by any means. The reason I find this interesting is because I have several times in my training thought, oh this is as fit as I can get. And I've been wrong.

But it's felt like it. I'm like a maxing out the amount of volume I can do, a maxing out the amount of intensity I could do, there's not work holding me back. I'm not in a relationship. I don't have a kid. I am a pro. I'm basically a slow pro. But Nick, just to like spin off on your situation, like you are completely unoptimized. Yeah, totally. Totally. Like you have a, you have a social life. I realize now. Right. That is a no, no. You cannot do that. That's not all in. Yeah. That's not all in if you have a social life. Like I do think you have some significant upside if you are all in. And you got to understand. that all in is a thing that needs to happen for like two years straight to like really

achieve the results that this person is talking about. But yeah, again, are you average? I think I'm pretty close to average as far as genetics go. I'm definitely not gifted at long. Maybe I'm gifted at short like 20 second stuff, but not at anything over like 10 minutes. I guess in my opinion, in my professional opinion, if you were to go all in for two years and didn't do the social stuff and like slept perfect hours and wore an order ring and trained and got a real coach and all the things I don't know if you're going to qualify to be a pro like it's oh I'm definitely not going to qualify to be a pro but I'm I also don't think I'm going to do a four hour 70.3 I don't think there's any world where I can everyone has a different ceiling

yeah so with you as our guinea pig not just any average person has there is no ceiling you know I think there's some sort of a ceiling of just I think I think there's some sort of a ceiling of just how you I think it's such a cool concept, though, that, like, how close can you get to your own... Your own ceiling there? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, have we reached it?

Me and Eric? Maybe. I, you know what? I feel like I've eached out about all of the, quote, potential that I can possibly get. If you look at, like, the athleticism of my parents and their parents. True. And, like, where I've gotten to and how my body broke at certain, like, key times of volume and race-intensity.

I feel very good about what I've gotten out of myself, at least in the triathlon space. Your parents thing is interesting, but then there's your sister who is also an elite athlete. I mean, yeah, but she's found an elite zone by going very, very long. So, like, maybe I have untapped potential in running 100 miles, but I think in terms of what I spent my time focusing on for 10 years, I think I about, you know, squeezed all the out of that. Paula, if you go off of intuition, do you feel like it's your, you have squeaked out, as Eric puts it, the most out of yourself at any point in your life? Or do you feel like, no, there's more there? Uh, I don't know, because a lot of the, like, big successes I had when I was,

when I was pretty young. And I was completely 100% all in on everything. But I went into a lot of, like big Olympic games and world championships injured. So I feel like when you're injured, you're not optimizing. So I do think there's like, I think I could have won a world championship or podium dead in Olympics at certain points of my career. If you just plot the Olympic games in that week or whatever that I was super fit. But the biggest thing is timing these results properly with that ceiling. And this is like the trick of like you can be all in, but then do you have the right coach?

do you have the right science and whatever? There's so many factors to align to find the ceiling that you're always left wondering. Oh, there was that one thing. Yeah. Yeah. Wow, we've... That's fun.

This is a deep question. I love it. I think it's great. Speaking of Olympics, though, I don't know, not to shit on Italy, but I don't know if you guys heard that the ice hockey rink is going to be ready the week that the games start. Wow. I mean...

Hopefully they know how to... freeze some water. Yeah, I was going to say, hopefully they got some frozen lakes somewhere. There's problems, like, it's not very deep or something. Like, there's legit problems that they still have not completely figured out.

They're not using an ice rink that's pre-existing. They're building an ice rink. This is so Olympics. It's not good, guys. But maybe there's not a stadium. You know what? I think Canada's got a couple they can borrow. Yeah.

Like, in a pinch. Yeah. Every middle school has one. Not to sit on it. It's going to be an amazing Olympics. Maybe they'll just do roller, hockey. Just everyone sitting around drinking their cappuccinos and they're not building ice hockey rinks. Are your parents going?

No, I don't think so. Okay, next question here is from Lindy. Three years of enjoying the weekly draw. Lindy, not Lindy. Not Lindy Kent. There's a different Lindy? No, different Lindy. I noticed the PTOT-100 photos recently posted and how Paula has gone from 2020's traditional low-hand setup to the custom-raised hand cockpit. I still have the low-hand setup, but I've been pondering on an investment in a custom cockpit. Would you consider this a worthwhile change to my TT setup? I love riding my TT and would like to have a crack at a second Iron Man in the next few years.

Thanks. Not Lindy Kent, but Lindy. Yeah, this is, I mean, my arms have gone up because everyone's arms have gone up. I don't know. This just gives me such nostalgic vibes with the low hands. When I saw that post that PTO did with comparing my positions from when I won Daytona in the best power I've ever had in my life, to what I'm riding now, I think I was faster back then.

I think everyone's just like, tilt, tilt, tilt, cover your face and now we're all doing it. For sure. People are like, oh, well, they did it, and they obviously are like scientific. Yon never did it. Yeah, look, there we go. Eric never did.

I think Eric actually, he started doing the tilt thing too, but he always looks better in every photo I see with his arms flat. Yeah, but I also, you know, broke my hip, so take that with a grand assault. Yeah, I think that's the trend, is like people are going higher with tilt

so their hips are open more so they can run off the bike better. It's like there's a lot of factors here. It's not just getting low and having flat arms. My intuition tells me that because I've never ridden with like mantis

like the high arms and I, my subconscious is telling me that I would be more comfortable like that as well. Is that true in your experience? Me. It's dependent. Maybe less pressure on your shoulders

because you're not. It's more like you're, the pressure is like completely on your forearms and you're just like you know kind of like you your sternum drops more versus I feel like when my hands were flat I had more of like a lever feeling where I had like pressure on my hands and on the forearms and a lever and I just felt like like pulling cow like you could pull and it felt good like you can get some power there yeah that is true I really liked Heather Jackson I was with that too like leverage on her bars to make power The other thing about lower arms is I think the bike's easier to handle usually.

For sure. Versus having... Well, that's a fact. It's like a shorter stem or a longer stem kind of bad. Like it's, you get used to it, but it is much harder to take corners in your bars if you're tilted at 30 degrees versus... This is Iron Man, what are corners? That's right. So what do you think?

Should Lindy try this? I don't know. Is it worth the investment? I mean, generally we have found that it's like slightly more arrow, but it's like very finicky with the exact amount of like how wide your elbows are and how high your hands are. I think to not to overcomplicated, I think custom bars, the reason there are so many custom bar option now is because they are faster and more adjustable than what might come with your bike or what position you're currently in now. So not only to find aerodynamics, but also to find

comfort. So it used to be barely anyone at custom air bars. And now everyone has like molded to their, at least in the pro field. Yeah, because like five years ago, everyone was tough and just road the bars you had. Yeah, everyone else customer bars. So if you have the financial means to, like, get a pair of custom things or at least like adjustable things, I think it will be worth it. Make sure they're comfy. Yep.

Yep. Cool. Next question is from Taylor. Hi, everyone. A bit of a silly question here. What game show do each of you think you could win? Jeopardy Price is Right. Survivor, Big Brother, et cetera.

Wishing everyone an amazing 2026, Taylor. For sure, I could win Survivor. Eric, for sure, yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah, that's good. All those challenges, he'd be so good at them. I just don't care at all about living in the dirt either. I don't know. I'm going to get flogged for this, but I don't actually know how Survivor goes. Like, what do they do?

It's not like a, it's not a dating one, right? No, it's just like, I think you form alliances with people that are secret and people are voting people out. There's some psychological alliance things. But you said Eric would be good at these challenges. Are they like physical challenges? Yeah, because you get immunity. And it just seems like people lose weight and you're like living in the dirt and like not eating very much and just like a bit of mental fortitude. Is it like naked and afraid or like whatever the...

I think naked and afraid tried to like alone. Let's take survivor but like brr like it needs to be more and ridiculous. Right. Right. I was going to say that I think I would be very bad at any one of these shows because I don't know. You know what? I think Paul and I would actually probably do really well at is amazing. racing because there is some physicality to that. Paul is super organized and does travel really,

really well. That's true. And like, yeah, we would argue, but like we kind of like exercise together and argue all day anyway. So like, like just another day. It's not that different. Oh, this is a challenge for you guys. This is Monday for us. I'm still in zone one. Yeah, that's good. You're right. We would win amazing race. Well, we wouldn't have going for us, though. is I'm scared of everything. Yeah, I'd have to really like double down on being calm as fucking. Right. Yeah.

But you're way to begin at that. Good question. Fun. Okay, next one from Jacqueline here. I'll keep it short and sweet. This is not short and sweet, Jacqueline, redefine short and sweet. What is the vibe at Exeterra triathlon events? Is it laid back in fun like trail running or more serious and competitive like triathlon?

I used to do long distance triathlon, Iron Man, before kids, but, now with two little boys, I'm short on time and have to focus on training for events that fill up my cup, which is anything on trail. I miss doing triathlon and thought this would be a fun way to reintroduce it in my life, but a bit intimidated by the scene. Thanks a lot for all that you do for the sport. Soaked to rep Team TTL this year, Jacqueline. Oh my gosh. Yeah. XTERA is the opposite of intimidating. Yeah, not at all. It's like the most fill your cup. Awesome vibe ever. Yeah, it's exactly like trail running. It's like, that's the best. There's like Extera. Well, I it's like on the seriousness continuum.

I think there's like trail running. It's like a little more serious. And then there's like swim run. It's like maybe swim runs even less serious than trail running. And then there's like stereo. For sure it is. Yeah, probably. Yeah, for sure.

That's very pure. Very core. Swim run is the least. Yeah. Careful Paula, because we got to win a race this year. Yeah. Yeah. But like all of these things, if you want to be serious, like you can be serious.

Like no one is there making fun of people who are trying. But there are plenty of people there just to like complete the thing. The course is pretty. fun and cool to go see. And Xtera is like that. It's so approachable, so fun. People are awesome. Like, you could probably walk up to anybody and ask them what PSI your tires should be at,

and they would talk to you for 10 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Can't recommend it enough. Love that. I just don't do Beaver Creek. You won't, that'll be painful.

Are they all a little painful, though? Just do anyone but that one. That one is like 7,000 feet and goes straight up the mountain. So that's the only one I can't recommend. Okay, great. Next one here's from Paco. What's up, TTL? Question for you guys.

How important is body weight and body fat percentage in assessing your fitness? Do you guys have a target weight you guys usually race in, Paco? I don't totally understand what that means. Assessing your fitness?

Because I thought that he was going to ask how important is this in triathlon? But how important is it in assessing your fitness? I'm not sure what that means. We could just call that preparedness to race, Okay. Yeah.

We don't. Yeah, no, like how does your body weight or body fat percentage correlate to how fit you are? Is that something you pay attention to as you're trying to achieve the optimal fitness? Maybe that's what he means. Yeah. What I realized this year, because I used to not really weigh myself because I didn't want to see, but I did get a scale last year to measure my body weight before and after rides to no fluid loss. and just to like, you know, watts per kilo, all these different things.

So I started doing it regularly. And what I realized was within a day or even within hours, your body weight can fluctuate by like four pounds. Yep. Yeah. So now it's taken away all of the worry and stress I had about ever weighing myself because I'm like it can change drastically based on your hydration, based on if you've just exercised, so many things.

So to answer the question, no, I don't base my fitness on my body weight. Yeah. Yeah. What about you, Eric? No, I don't think I'll ever step on a scale again, to be totally honest. Really? Yeah. Yeah, I just don't want to go there.

Totally. If you know you have a kind of a path that your mind goes down when you start thinking about weight, then better to just avoid it. Exactly. Like, I'm going to look at the training and the intervals and the times that I hit and just how I feel. as long as I feel like I have enough energy to complete the workouts and complete the race. That's what I care about. And I just like, I guess believe that my body will end up where it needs to be. And I'm not willing to force or obsess about it.

But what you just said to me sounds like not just what is best for someone who maybe has had problems with eating disorders in the past, but for all athletes that do triathlon. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to play devil's advocate, I could see if you're getting ready for Kona and like you're under, like extremely high level supervision and you're very honest with yourself and honest with your coach and all these things. Then like maybe you could like have a goal for where you want to be because of the heat and stuff. But like all those things I said have to be true.

Like you don't just go into this half cocked and like, oh, a little bit lighter is always better. And you know, like I think I'm doing what I need to do. Like it's so it's a slippery slope, you know, to use a way overused term. Yeah. Yeah. Agreed though. It's nice to hear two pros talk about like, no, I just feel for my activity and I know that my body will adjust and do what it needs to do. That's refreshing to hear as an age grouper. Next question here is from Nathan. Every time I release air from my tires to refill sealant or go over 10-ish days without pumping up my tires. Why does it in my throat? A mouse. They lose air and come deceded. That's a great word. Any thoughts on what I'm doing wrong or is this just how it?

it is Nathan. Okay, so 10 days, that should not happen. Generally not. We do have a couple tires right now that are doing that though. And they're not just flat, right? They've like, the bead is off of the rim? No, no, they don't do that.

They don't go that far. Yeah, so that shouldn't really happen. Like, when you put enough sealant in, it should kind of like act as almost like a glue a little bit, right? Yeah. Yeah. Even if it's fully like no air in there. Yeah, theoretically when we fill up our tires with sealant and then I like kind of roll them around on their sides and like try to get the sealant all moved around like anticipating that any little holes between the bead and the in the rim are going to like be filled with sealant that also is a little bit sticky and theoretically should keep the tire seated. So would you say to Nathan maybe check to make sure that those tires are tubeless tires that those rims are tubeless rims and that they're using enough sealant?

Yeah, the one exception to this is one prior to Zip coming out with the Super 9 that is tubeless compatible. They had one that was like tubeless possible. And that one did tend to lose air a little bit more quickly and occasionally come unseated and it was a huge pain in the ass. But that's because it wasn't really designed for tubeless. Yeah, great. Okay, Eric, this is kind of quick for you. It's from Chris. Long-time listener, first-time writer.

What is your recommended espresso machine and coffee grinder? I know this has been discussed, I think maybe two years ago, but I didn't know if there were any updates. Also, budget at this time, budget at this time is important, so not La Marzocco, Chris. I think we are, let's see, there's a couple of different things that we've seen. There's a brand called Luca that's just like an $1,800 espresso machine. There is a brand that we had prior to the La Marzocco, which is Profitech. They have like, when we got ours, it was called a Pro 500. It might be something slightly different now.

And Rocket has a machine that's around the $1,900, $1,900 price point. We were going to look, I'm not going to say why we were looking for this. We were going to look for a cheaper espresso machine that was a little bit smaller, a little bit more, less fancy than the Lamarzocco. And so we went into Clive Coffee in Portland and they had a section of like, not consigned. Open box. open box type of machines or ones that someone took home and realized they didn't want it and it came right back. And they were heavily discounted and they were almost brand-name machines. So that's a little hack.

That's how we found ours. Yeah. Or Luca, right? That's what it's called. Yep. Is it wrong to buy, to look for used? Is there a reason? Does they like wear out?

Oh, yeah. It's just good from Clive because we know they like went in and cleaned it and did all of the refurbishing and all that stuff. but they do have a lifespan, you do have to keep up with them. So if you just find them on Facebook marketplace, that's... I would be wary. Because the big thing,

especially if you have hard water, they can be completely calcified inside. And if that person has never done the decalcification process or backflushing or all these things that you're supposed to do, like on top of the gaskets and et cetera being worn out,

that is a little bit scary. So buying like a refurbished, you know, official sort of a thing from a reputable brand is good. Even a Breville is good. Yeah, so that was the final recommendation.

If those three that I listed, the Rocket Apartmento, the Profitec Pro 500, or similar, and then the Luca, which is in the like $1,800, $1,800 price point, none of those, if those are too expensive, then the Breville Burista Pro, that's what we got during COVID. That's what I thought you were going to say. Yeah. That's what we got during COVID when we were at Paula's parents' house in Canmore. And it's still there to this day. It's getting fairly calcified, but still kicking.

So that's been, so that's five years. My dad doesn't think you need to look after. No. Anything like that. Okay. We'll run for life. Right. I mean, it's still going.

Troubling as a brain surgeon to have that kind of philosophy on life, but I guess he would know. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, next one here. This is from Lindsay. For the folks who work in bike shops, I love this. If I wanted to do something nice for them because they did me a favor, what treat or beer variety would they want me to bring them? Donuts, homemade cookies, craft beer.

Thanks for everything you do, Lindsay. So, Eric, let's take you, for example, working at what's it called? Athletes Lounge? Yes, Athletes Lounge. What would you guys have appreciated? Oh, we loved beer.

Would you drink an hour? Yeah, I mean, like the last hour of work, I mean, we had a freaking keg in the store. So, like, in the last hour of work, we were allowed to have a beer, you know, and obviously, if you get shit-faced, you get fired. But, yeah, customers would frequently, you know, if you're working on there,

like $12,000 call no, they bring in a six-pack for the mechanics just to like, please take care of my baby. And I guess at that point, you're just trying to trial and error, figure out what your mechanics like if they're like a porter guy or a pilsner or something in between. But, I mean, also, like my mom would send me

frequently with a couple loaves of banana bread. And this was not to pay anybody off. This was just to be nice. And mechanics definitely appreciated to bake goods. I think it's funny. from Lindsay, it says something, like, yes, consider the mechanics, but also consider what it says about you if you bring banana bread or if you bring IPAs, right? These are like the ends of the spectrum. That's my thing, Nick, because I, if I want to bring a thank you to a, I mean, this has

happened before mechanics or something, I feel weird bringing beer because I don't drink beer. Totally. I think it's much more appropriate to bring cookies or baked goods from me. Yeah, it feels disingenuous almost, right? Yeah, but if Eric's going, of course, it's like, He brings beers. It's all cool. So, yeah, it's a little bit what you want to bring. And they're going to appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah. It's just a nice act.

Exactly. I love it. You can also, of course, just like, you hit the 20% button when they spend the iPad around. You could also do that. Oh, God. This is a great opportunity to, like, actually tip someone. No, I think this is different than just getting a little bit of extra money. Oh, no, I agree.

It's a fun thing. Yeah. It is fun. It is fun. Yeah. Totally. Okay, next one here is from Antony. Hey, TTL, I have a question about balancing adventure and risk.

I think this question might be best suited for Eric as I'm thinking of challenges, similar to his FKT or solo swim runs. What factors do you consider when prepping for these off-grid challenges, and at what point does the risk outweigh the desired amount of adventure? Yes, a solo backcountry 50-mileer would be awesome, but the chance of spraining an ankle and needing rescue, not so much. Is it something you learned through experience and exposure?

Thanks a lot. Anthony. is this something that you go off of feel or do you have some kind of checks and balances system in your head? Yeah, I go off of feel and I also feel like I'm not

like I'm okay with turning around if something feels sketchy or if like that little voice in the back of your head is like oh you're two hours from cell service and this is grizzly bear territory like listening to that and not being so hell bent on completing

a loop or whatever that you put yourself and like legit risk. But if I'm doing something where there is no cell service or just like more technical thing or whatever, like I like to either have, well, now I have a garment in reach, so I'll have that with me.

And then I also just like scale back. I'm not doing, I scale back from like massively how risky I am with like the speed I'm going or the moves that I'm doing and take that into consideration. It's like I can't get airlifted out of here. or whatever.

Like, don't go, don't push it to the edge of your abilities. We all have this voice in our head that tries to keep us safe. And it's like, you get used to learning to listen to it, I imagine. Yeah. And also, I mean,

I completely understand, like having spent a lot of time with Paula, like the voice in her head is a little louder than the voice in my head. And if that takes the fun out of the thing for you, don't do the thing. Like, come up with something that is in cell service

or is more nearby. or whatever. Like, I, I'm never going to, like, not have fun just because I'm trying to do something risky. Like, I have almost no interest in summiting mountains

that require, like, in the winter, in iceacks and crampons till then, like, ski down on ice. Like, I just,

it's not worth it to me. Right. So, just, I think that's kind of a personal journey, but, um, yeah,

just don't, just like, be very within yourself. If you know you have 10 gears, like operate at seven. when you're out of self-service or deep in the woods. Yeah, great advice. All right, Eric, hitting you up, following up quickly with this next question from Steve.

For Eric. Eric, well, you'll see. Okay. Eric, what's Paula's favorite song and what's Nick's favorite movie? Paul's favorite song. Well, the song that I know that Paul has been enjoying a lot lately is from a band called Husbands. That's not my favorite song. It's just the one we've most recently listened to.

All I can think of is the most recent one. I don't know what your absolute favorite all the time. Her favorite song of all time, is it a, is it, do you, do you have something in your head, Paula? Yeah, I don't, I don't even know if it's the right answer, but it's what I can think of in the moment. Is it, don't tell the boys by Petey? No. Okay. Well, because the funny thing is the next question is, Paula, what's your favorite song?

And Nick, what's your favorite movie? What do you think Nick's favorite movie is, Eric? You might know this. I've probably mentioned it. Your favorite movie. I mean, if it's not Interstellar. It's not, but I do love Interstellar. There's a connection between Interstellar and my favorite movie, though. Okay, let's hear what it is.

I'll give you a hint. How about Them Apples? Really? Goodwill Hunting. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. combines a few things that I really like. If I had enough time, I might have ended up there. Yeah, yeah.

And Paula, what's your favorite song? The one I could think of is Lean Into Life by PD. Oh, yeah, so good. I think that's great. I mean, it's like a song, like you can have a favorite song for like five years. But like they represent different points of, you know, phases of your life and stuff. Totally. Yeah, that's a lot.

I mean, my favorite song used to be no such thing by John Mayer. And I'm not sure I really feel that way anymore. I don't know if I relate to that anymore. and I don't think I have a favorite song. I have favorite songs in the moment, like you said. Yeah, I can't imagine thinking of a favorite song. There's just things that I think really nail where I'm at in life at a given time. Totally, totally.

Okay, next one here. This is a quick little one before our final question here. My name is Peter. I'm a big fan of your podcast. Thanks for the intro, Peter. What do you think of the massage gun? Is it harmful to the muscles? I have not been injured by the massage gun.

By the massage gun. I do remember Aaron Carson, EC Fit, I remember her telling us a couple times, like this is the thing you don't want to do before bed because it can actually like ramp up your nervous system versus doing it like before a workout. And that kind of stuck with me and makes some sense. You're like pounding the shit out of your muscles

to the point where they're like, what is happening? And maybe they're slightly more loose, but they're also very much away. Yeah. I think you could probably do some harm to them if you were doing it too hard in certain places for too long or a different attachment. But in the way that most people use them, I don't think they do damage. Yeah, I definitely wouldn't. Like, if I have Achilles pain, I wouldn't like hit the Achilles pain with the massage gun. It's more like loosening up a muscle that's tight, not injured. What I've learned through just my old hamstring stuff is that in general, when you have a pain somewhere, like massaging that spot or using a massage gun on that spot is not a good idea.

Yes. Because it's already in sight. Because it's already sore. Yeah. Yeah. But I did read a little bit about any research on massage gun stuff. And it seems like there can be some advantages, but they are short-lived and kind of, they're like feeling-based. So there's no proof that it helps into.

injuries heal quicker right now. There's no proof that it helps you recover faster. It can help delay or ease doms delayed onset muscle soreness in some people. And that seems to be it. But something that you guys have both said a lot in the past with like the boots, for example, is that, okay, but you're lying down. You're in a state of relax. Maybe it's a way to kickstart your parasympathetic nervous system.

those things are positive. So if it's part of a routine that tells you that you're like warming up for a run and your brain's like, okay, this is the thing. We're warming up for a run and it's activating my muscles.

There's positives and not. But there's no like clinical evidence as of yet. Yeah, no. Anecdotally, I feel like it's a thing that feels like it takes the edge potentially off of that first 10 minutes now that we feel quite old

in our joints when we go run. Like maybe take that first 10 minutes of ouch or feeling clunky and cut that under five minutes just because on the way in the van to the run you like massage gunned a little bit and I just think it feels good sometimes

Yeah it's like sitting there and just like shaking your arms out and like you know whatever Yeah Okay final one here from Diana Bit of a philosophical question For the off season on a previous episode Paula had mentioned that when she retires from pro triathlon she will never do a triathlon

again I said that So unlike me. You've said it several times. I was reflecting on this as I was driving home from my senior women's hockey game where the opposing team had a few former team Canada players on it. These women are still playing their sport of choice, but now on a recreational level.

Do you think the difference here lies in a team sport versus individual and time-based sport? Or does it have more to do with the individual person? Or is it just that we live in Winnipeg and it's minus 40 degrees Celsius? out there and there's nothing else to do in the winter. I would love all your thoughts on the dynamic of a sport and life of an athlete post-retirement. Thanks for all you do for the multi-sport community, Diana.

Yeah, I think it's very sport-specific because hockey is fun. It's called a game, hockey game. Triathlon is not inherently fun. Are you going to go to the triathlon game this weekend? So if I was a, if I grew up playing professional hockey, and Ryer retired. Yeah, I'd still want to play. For sure. For sure.

Well, I mean, I'm just guessing. I don't ever. It's funny because just today I heard Alex Honnold talk about climbing like this. Yeah. And he said he would climb. But climbing's not a game in that way too. But it has something that is a little more inherently like kinesthetically. Yeah. Joyful.

Different. And I do think the time-based thing of triathlon and you'll always know how. comparatively fast you once were, which in hockey, it's kind of harder to measure that. Right. And it's fun no matter how good the people are who you're playing with, I would imagine. Yeah. I think... It's also easy on your body.

I mean, no, it's not in some ways. Of course, they get backlashed and it's very hard. But in terms of an impact type of thing, you can... Like running. Yeah, it's not like you're running around playing soccer. Overuse injury. Risk. skating is a bit less impact.

Anyway. I imagine personally that I will continue swimming and biking and running until I literally cannot or I pass away. But I will absolutely not be going to competitions. That's how I feel. That's the difference here. And Paula's not saying that when she retires, she's not going to swim, bike or run ever again. Because I cannot possibly imagine that.

But racing is just this other thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's like we've been the fastest. we're going to be. We spend our entire lives working to get a little bit faster every single day. And it sounds nice to just like go for a bike ride. And if you feel like spreading up the hill, you can.

But you don't have to. Yeah. Didn't Yon talk about this on his going mental podcast? Or Alistair. Because he's technically retired now. And he's like, sometimes he'll be out on a bike ride. And I have this urge to go max up this hill. But I don't have like a reason to anymore.

Oh my God And he has to like hold himself back From doing that stuff Because Yeah but like you wouldn't have set out the door Thinking like I'm gonna go do some max hill repeats But like when the spirit moves you and you're out there Like clearly you still enjoy like just the feeling of your heart rate being up

Pushing yourself yeah Oh yeah I mean I don't know how I've put this But I cannot possibly imagine a world where I'm gonna that's gonna go away When I see a short hill that I want to I'm gonna want to sprint up it I think that's kind of a universal thing though, right? Is that not everyone? I don't want to

make generalizations, but it's... You two are certainly like that. Well, we're professional athletes, do you? I don't want to like, you know, make it alienate anyone. You're doing it because you're like it. Sure. Everyone that I know would agree with you, Nick, yes. Yeah.

People we know. I think that's in all of us. Wait, so every time you see a short hill, you need to sprint up it? The thought crosses my mind. Where I'm like, this sounds fun. And then you realize actually that's so hard.

I'm not doing that. Get out of the saddle. Yeah. No, because like a 30, 40 second effort just kind of just feels fun. No. It doesn't hurt long enough. But like if you don't have to, if it's completely unscripted and you're like relatively fresh because you're not like in the middle of a training block, yeah, I agree.

And then it hurts after. Yeah, it hurts after. It hurts after. But then you're like, you're not pedaling and it's all good. I love it. You can take as much rest as you want because this wasn't on the program anyway. Exactly. Exactly.

Exactly. Oh, that's fun. Okay. Well, that was it. This is our return to our traditional podcasting here in our individual places. Thank you, everyone, for listening to the podcast four years into the podcast. This is now for more than four years in. Over four years at this point.

Also, it's Flynn's birthday. Oh, is it? Yes. When is it? It's tomorrow. It's tomorrow. So for all you guys, it was yesterday. So you can just...

Feel free to, like, you know, post Instagram as a happy birthday of Flynn. Send us some IPAs or banana bread. Yeah, exactly. Send Flynn some cupcakes. He's going to be six. He does love banana bread. He's going to be six. Nice.

I just, it's crazy how much how quickly four years goes by or six years goes by. Yeah. Yeah, I don't. I can't think about it too much right before bed. I know. I've been really wrestling with that way. Not wrestling, but I'm reminded of it lately. What else is going to go fast?

one week and then we'll be back to you guys. Yeah. Thanks, everyone. Have a good one. Hi.