That Triathlon Life Podcast - NCAA Triathlon, Speed, and Confidence with TTL Development Team Athlete Lydia Russell

Episode Date: May 22, 2025

This week, we’re joined by TTL Development Team athlete Lydia Russell to talk about her transition from NCAA collegiate triathlon to the professional 70.3 scene. The first half of the episode is all about Lydia—her growth, challenges, and fast start to pro racing—while the second half shifts into our usual listener-submitted questions.With Lydia:Her fastest run split in St. GeorgeHow much potential she feels she still hasThe scariest part of racing as a 70.3 proWhat the NCAA triathlon experience was likeAdversities she’s faced in both college and pro triathlon as a womanAs the Tripod:How we maintain a healthy relationship with "hurt" and "pain" in training and racingDoes Paula’s training shift for T100 racing vs. 70.3?An update on Nick’s flip turn journeyHow Eric’s new elbow injury affects his goals for the seasonWhy experiencing the bad helps us appreciate the goodA big thank you to our podcast supporters who keep the podcast alive! To submit a question for the podcast and to become a podcast supporter, head over to ThatTriathlonLife.com/podcast

Hey, everyone. Welcome to that triathlon life podcast. I'm Eric Loggerstrom. I'm Paula Finley. I'm Nick Goldston. And this is our triathlon podcast. If you're new here, we hang out. We talk about triathlon things that are going on. And we do the book of the show based off of questions that are written in from everybody who listens. So thank you for that. Today we have a very special guest on the show. Lydia Russell from the TTL development team. If you're not aware of what that is, we sponsor six athletes who are trying to make the jump from age group athlete into the professional ranks. It's, you know, we do the best that we can to just offer a little bit of support and a little bit of mentorship and Lydia is crushing it this year. First, 70.3 race in Oceanside, second 70.3 race, 70.3 St. George. And with the fastest run split. So Lydia, welcome to the show and thanks for hanging out with us. Hey, guys. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, we're excited. You didn't actually

jumped from the age group ranks. You jumped from ITU, short course racing. So that's an interesting transition, I think, because Eric and I both went through that as well, but much later in our careers. And you're only, how old are you, Lydia? 23. Yeah, you're still super young. So I feel like your success immediately in 70.3 is just a great sign for things to come, because there is a learning curve that comes with making the switch to a time trial bike and racing for four and a bit hours over two hours. So it's been a really impressive debut. And we're proud that you're wearing our kit. So thanks for coming on the podcast. Thanks. Nick and I both have a bunch of questions, but we're going to try to keep those to a minimum because we also have a bunch of questions from people

submitted via the TTL app. So thank you people who submitted Lydia specific questions. But just like straight out of the gate here, your two races into being what I would like kind of consider a pro-traffle. You are not supported by USA Trathlon. You're on your own. You're potentially having to get your own sponsors, pick your own races, book your own travel, et cetera, et cetera. How is that going? How has that transition been? Exciting, terrifying. I don't know. It's exciting and terrifying, like you said. It's kind of surreal to just, I don't know. I think like, thinking back to, this is kind of like taking a few steps back, but like thinking back to when I like graduated high school and was like going to run in the NCAA,

which is a whole other thing. But thinking about what I wanted out of my career, I thought like, okay, if I can just run like professionally at any level, like I thought if I can get any sort of contract and like call myself a professional runner, like I'll be happy. So to think like in triathlon, like now I've made it to where I can call myself a professional triathlet like kind of for real. I mean, I'm not making a living yet. But you're so on the way. Like having the fastest runs, but that's incredible. And I think we have a question specifically about that, or Nick does at least.

But there's like a difference between you're getting 22nd, 21st, like you're not even popping up on any version of the podium that might be. But now you're getting top tens. You're on the TTL development team, you know, the most prestigious developmental platform in the sport. So like you're well on your way. Totally. Yeah.

I mean, having just being in the top five conversation is really cool. Yeah. Yeah. Have you enjoyed it? The racing itself, because the training is one thing, but like, jumping into the racing is so different than short course. There's a little bit less people. The bike is so much lonelier, potentially. And yeah, just the training overall is different. So you've enjoyed it more than short course, would you say? Yeah. I mean, in short course, I feel like there was a lot of like frustration and then like being scared on the bike and a lot more risk of crashing and I don't know, being frustrated with like being able to run fast,

but like not being up towards the front. like having the longer run where I can have a lot more time to pick off people is really fun. And the rest of it's fun. So this is perfect segue into one of my questions I had for you, which is about kind of the, I mean, we love talking about triathlon as a fun thing. But as a pro, I imagine it's also very scary. And I've now been with Paula a bunch of times and even Paula gets scared, not really for her health or safety so much, but just what this race means and how many people are going to be putting pressure on her to race. So now you have a little bit of this. And I'm curious if the scariness of short course and the crashing and the whatever, losing a group and how that can, you know, if you don't make a swim pack or you don't make a bike pack, that can have this impact.

Have you kind of thought about the 70.3 scariness versus the short course scariness? For me and short course, like that was a big part of what was holding me back. And just like even with the swim start, like how aggressive it is, I'm just not built for that. Like that's never been who I am. And like, even in middle school, I played water polo and I just like, or even I was like in elementary school playing lacrosse. And like I just could, I could never be aggressive. My dad would always be yelling at me to be more aggressive and it's not, it's just not who I am as an athlete. Like I like those long, like sustained efforts where I'm pushing myself, but I don't like to be

physical with other people. Yeah, I do find, I found that in the transition as well, that 70.3 racing is much more internal and it's your own self pushing yourself. And you're, I feel like your result is much more dictated by your own willingness to go hard and less by what's going on around you versus short course is very dependent on, yeah, if you make that front swim group. And if you come up on the dock, like so many things. A lot of it's really out of your control and you can be in the best shape of your life and things can go sideways really quickly, whereas in 70.3, I think I've found that you're kind of in control of your own destiny a lot more. If you have a bad swim start, there's

four hours to catch up with your other strengths that you have. So I can completely relate to that. You're a great swimmer. Yeah. In the 70.3 field, you're a great swimmer. You came out of the water with Paula in Oceanside. I don't remember where he came out of the water in St. George, but this is not like you crawling your way back from a seven-minute deficit by any means.

You're in the race. You're right in it from the start, yeah. Yeah, that's kind of funny because I think I told you guys on our initial call when you were interviewing me for the Devo team. I was like, guys, I'm like practically an adult onset swimmer. Like, it's really bad. So I would have in the ocean side, you guys were probably like, what the heck? No, well, we swam together.

In a good way. In a good way. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we slammed together in Tucson, so I knew you were a good swimmer. But it is different. I mean, I'm an okay swimmer, but in short course, I was always like, am I going to make the pack?

Am I not going to make the pack? I was never so dominant that I was guaranteed out the front. Whereas, yeah, in 70.3, I'm still not the very best, but I'm pretty confident I can be near the front and then claw my way back, which is kind of a similar situation that you're in, I'd say. You're not leading the swim, but you're there and you're not having to claw back a 10 minute or an 8 minute deficit off the swim. What is, like, what's going on right now with your plan? Because like you're a solid swimmer, obviously a fantastic runner.

Bike, like, what's your, are you like doing crazy bike blocks? Like, what's, how like intensely focused are you on biking and like elevating that? Because like the bike scene in 70.3 right now is just like, Yeah, I guess also, how has it changed since short-course training? Like, is your bike mileage much more now? I honestly don't really, like, look at totals and stuff like that. Like, I don't look at my run mileage or, like, my bike volume or even I look at my weekly training hours, but I try to look at it as little as possible because if I, like, I'm really keeping to that.

I just get, like, neurotic. Yeah, you're like, I need to make it one kilometer more this week. Right, yeah. Yeah, and like, that's how I got injured, too, when I was just running. is like I was so obsessive about like how many miles I was running each week and like not wanting it to be um you know like less than the week before and that didn't go well but um for the bike I am definitely biking more um more like longer rides a lot of 70.3 specific workouts which I really like because that kind of gives me confidence that I can like hold the watts I need to um yeah I feel like I've

surprised myself with my power it's just really like learning to not be afraid on the descents and stuff and like stay arrow and all of that. I think that's where I'm losing a lot of time. So we just, we need to all link up for like a TT bike descending intensive camp. Yeah, I have the same problem. Nick, you're in, we're all in, we're doing this, we're in it together. I'm so in. Nick has the opposite problem. He's really good on the descents that his watts are not as good. I can't do anything else. I just need a net downhill course. That's great. We're all, we're all going to elevate each other. Yeah. Love it. So Lydia, Lydia, This just reminded me of a question I always have for people who are as young as you are and as successful as you are,

is if you could try to guess how much of your success is due to a natural, innate kind of talent that you had for this versus grit and determination and work that you've put in, where would you place that? We're going for like a 60, 40, 70, 30. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. All right. Exactly. Oh, gosh. That's the hardest question ever. Yeah, I mean, oh, I don't know.

The first time you ran, you're just like, wow, I'm faster than all of my friends. Did you win your first cross-country race? Exactly. There's not a lot of hard work. So it's not 100%. Yeah. Yeah, no, I didn't start running until high school, but I was running like 25, 26 minutes for the 5K my freshman year. Oh, wow.

Wow. Yeah, like I improved a lot in high school. That is, see everyone out there, you can do it. You just got to put it to work. That's amazing. What was your primary sport before you started running in high school? Because obviously you must have been athletic. Swimming. Oh, it was swimming. Okay.

Yeah. Nice. Same progression I had. Put your kids in swimming, everybody. Yeah. Well, sometimes, like, people, I don't even, I don't know if it was my teammates or like someone else, but recently someone was like, really? You swam as a kid? Like, I would never guess. And I was like, oh, damn. Ouch. Ouch. Tonship over.

Well, you do look like a natural runner, I'll say. Yeah. Like when your stride is very pretty and you look like you have a good run for him. So I guess that might have been what they meant by that. I've never seen, I've never watched you swim and criticize your. Yeah, but that's cool. No, no, no, we improved a lot in running.

Yeah. Okay, so another little question here about running. You did, as we mentioned several times, you had the fastest run split at St. George, which is freaking amazing, by the way. Was that something that you had in the back of your head that you wanted to have maybe the fastest run split or a really good run, or did that kind of just happen because of the way the day unfolded? I'd say overall, I mean, it just happened, but I know what I'm capable of on the run. And, like, I know how I ran an Oceanside.

And, like, I mean, this was a harder course and I ran, like, a similar time. So I think, like, I wanted to have, like, a better executed run than Oceanside because I was kind of dying at the end and, like, I was getting blisters on my feet. And I was just, like, not having a good time. So I think, yeah, I don't know. I knew like Danielle is a really fast runner, so I wasn't like, I didn't think it was like, oh, I got this in the bag. Like, I'm going to have the fastest run. But it was something that was there.

Yeah. Okay. So follow up then. You had this fast run idea in your head. You wanted to be better than Oceanside. Do you think that that impacted how you biked? Or were you still trying to bike to the best of your ability? Oh, it absolutely did not impact it.

I hit power PRs for like everything. Wow. bike. Oh, you did. Wow. That's great. Also coming up Snow Canyon, like, well, because I biked really hard at the beginning, trying to stay with Jackie. And I did until whatever the first descent was, then I like dropped my chain and whatever. It was, it was fine. That's not fine. No dropping chains. Yeah, that's a bummer. I was fine. I like got off, got it back on and then Chelsea was right there and I biked with her for a while. Like it all worked out. All right. Fire the mechanic. Because it was like right at the top of the hill too. So I didn't like have to stop while I was at full

speed and then like, oh, okay. That's, you know. Could have been worse. Like, if I was Paula, like, it probably wouldn't be fine, but this is my second one, so it was fine. Especially since I put Paula's chain on it, it definitely would not have been fine. Yeah, it would have been fired. We even hung you with that chain.

Oh, man. Oh, that's so cool. Okay. That's, those are the kind of the, the few questions I had. But as we lead into these TTR app questions, I was also just, now I'm just thinking about you as an athlete physically developing, and I don't mean like your body physically, I mean like your bike fitness, your run fitness, your swim fitness. Do you intuitively feel like you have a lot of room to grow there? And then same with like the mental side. Do you feel

like you have a lot of room to grow mentally? I'm kind of curious about those two kind of meters. Like maybe we could rephrase that even if it's helpful to like what stands between you and like a world championship podium. Like what are the things that? No, pressure though. Yeah, I just like a greatness or achieving your goals. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'd say physically, like, I mean, I didn't start the sport that long ago. I started in 2022. That was my first season. So definitely. And like I only started biking for real like right before that. So definitely on the bike, there's a lot of room to grow. That's a short. That's not long. That's exciting. Yeah. Also like strength wise. Because I guess like people don't talk about that a lot.

lot, but just like strength training in general. I really didn't care about until this past year. So I think I have a lot of room to grow the hair, like a lot of like small things and big things where I'm just like weak. So I think that will help improve everything. And my strength coach is great. She's so fun. That's cool. Yeah, that can be. I think the strength part plays a lot into the cycling part. And learning to ride hard takes a lot of years, just of mileage and accumulation of load. And the fact that you only started doing it really seriously three years ago was definitely a good sign for being able to get stronger, whether it's in the gym or just like on the actual bike.

I think that's probably the sport that's the hardest to master, I would say. Do you think? It kind of depends. You see some runners that just cannot grasp like the constant resistance concept versus like I bounce and like every time I do a workout, I'm relatively fresh. And cycling is just like this grindy view to like, constant discomfort in your legs,

you know, sort of thing. That's why I'm saying it. It takes, like, years to get really good at it. So that's cool, that you just really are on the up. Seriously, on the up. Yeah. What about mentally, like Nick said? Do you think that you're, is there like a mental block on the bike with the fear of descending?

I mean, I can relate to it a lot because I have the same problems. But is it you feel twitchy or you're scared of getting blown by the wind? Like, what is the thing that makes you scared? because I think a lot of our listeners can relate to this as well. I'm definitely afraid of the wind. Like that will probably, that gets me every time. Yeah, I need to get over that. Like spontaneous hurricane.

The gusts. The gusts are scary. Because I think when you're used to, I think my theory is it's actually worse if you're coming from a road background with riding a road bike. Because the control you have in the drops of a road bike is so much more than you have when you're on these skinny little bars that are so narrow with no brakes. So I think it's hard for athletes like you and me, you come from this road background to, like, switch to this completely different thing where the control feels much less when you're in a situation like that. You're much more vulnerable to the gusts when you're on a TT bike. Yeah. I think it's the fact that I can't break, too.

Like if something happens, like I can't. I mean, not that I want to like slam on the brakes and skid out. But like, I agree. Can we please put brakes on the extensions? No, just practice getting in out of your brakes over and over again. Why is someone thought of this? You can get in and out of your breaks with like at the same time.

I know, but what if I'm in like fight or flight? Then you fight. You guys remember? Someone made those bars that like move from base bar to arrow. It was like this crazy system. Those scare me too.

I'm like there's no way that those are solid enough. The guy who was like a super fast Zwift racer, he had those. Anthony Costas. And then they broke, of course. Shocking. Yeah, surprise. Surprise. Yeah.

Well, it's a thing you can improve. That's the thing. It's like power. That's harder to improve. Skills. It's just experience. But so like the gym is like you go work on it. It's not just going to like happen and fix itself like parking lots and descents and just like push one percent like finding you're nowhere near the limit working on a little bit more each time.

Yeah. I mean also like I started riding the TTI bike in December. So yeah, it's new. It's like not even six months ago at this point. So I feel like I don't know. Maybe it doesn't like show in the race results. Sky is the limit. is improving.

Yeah. Slowly. Well, you've had two races. So we don't have enough data to like really make a line. Yeah, by the way, when's your next race? June 15th, Happy Valley, 7.3. Oh, that's a, is it a pro series? No, it's an Iron Man, okay.

Yeah, but not a pro series. Yeah, it's just the pro women's field while the pro men are in Boulder, which nobody seems to know, which is weird. Well, you can just go win. We can win it. That would be a cool race. No pressure, but that'd be awesome. But we would love this.

Just like go do it because it's awesome. That's it. Yeah. Cool. Should we do some questions from the app? Yeah. I have a couple here that I already marked, but there's a bunch. And thank you again for everyone who submitted one.

So this one's kind of a three-parter, but I think these are all great. This is from Jess B. What was the NCAA experience like in women's triathlon? What can the NCAA do better, if anything, for you as an athlete? and then it was how did you choose ASU. ASU is right. No? No.

Arizona University. U of A. University of Arizona. They said or was it Arizona University? Sorry, I know there are rivals and this might be an offensive question. So yeah, like maybe what was really great about it and like what's something that could be improved. Yeah. I mean, for triathlon, it's small.

Like it's not the same as running or swimming where you have like hundreds of schools with people coming from all over the world. well, we do have people from all over the world, but we don't have hundreds of schools. Like, there's not endless money. It's pretty small teams. So it's not, like, the NCAA experience, I guess, in the sense that, like, people might imagine it because of some other sports. But for me, I mean, like, I think I wouldn't be where I am now if I hadn't made the choice to do NCAA, which, funnily enough, I didn't want to do it at all. Like, I thought it was a joke. I thought like I was never going to be good if I did NCAA.

Like I thought I needed to like do the pro thing and like really chase that and be all in with that. And then I ended up at Arizona and it is very serious. My team is very good. And yeah, just like the support I've gotten, you know, in finishing my degree and strength in sports psychs, like all of that. And just like my teammates in the way they like have made me believe in myself. I think that's like, I mean, I could talk about that forever.

But I think just that like, yeah. For sure. So it sounds like you do have the benefit of NCAA sport with some of that psych support and like a team and the camaraderie and et cetera. Yeah. But like less than the budget. Like we're like we're used to giving a bike and wheels and a power meter and running shoes. Like what was the gear situation like? And I guess is that typical at your school versus other NCAA schools?

It depends on the school for. sure, but we were lucky enough. We all got bikes. Sweet. I mean, honestly, we got everything. I don't really know what I'm saying about the budget, but it's like the budget when it comes to like, when it comes to like racing and stuff like that, like the more nitty, gritty, like we got everything we need. And then it's like for extra stuff. It's like, well, we might not have the budget for that. Yeah. We're so lucky. Like some schools do not get bikes. Like we get so much stuff. You of A is a pretty, you guys win nationals most years. Like it's one of the better. It's like the school for, right? Well, it used to be, well, still is.

I'm not going to talk bad about ASU because they're really good. But it used to be ASU. They won nationals for seven years. Then last year was our first year. We got fifth. And then this year, our second year we won. Oh, wow. So we're getting the Arizona's confused again.

Sorry. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Arizona, just like the state for it. What about CU? I think, like, hasn't Colorado always been like decent or no? That's their club team, but yeah, they are good.

So they don't have a done NCAA program. No, Denver does. Oh, okay. All right. So out of curiosity, what bikes were you guys getting? Were you able to choose anything? Or did everyone get the identical bike

just different sizes? Like what kind of? I'm just curious. As someone who knows nothing about NCAA triathlon, I'm sure a lot of our listeners are curious. We got Trecomandas with electronic shifting. I think there were like slightly different components and they just like, honestly,

I don't know how they got the bikes they got or like why some of them were slightly different in the components. but anyway, they just based it on your world ranking when we all came at the beginning of the first year. So like if you had the highest world ranking out of everyone on the team, you got the nicest components. Oh, wow. Interesting. But basically you were given a bike that was definitely good enough to win you a national title.

Yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah. I love that. I love that bike. Nice. I like it more than my own road bike. I do have to give it back.

So that's kind of sad. That's very sad. Oh, that was another question I had. So like if there's something that could be important, about like the entire system or, you know, just anything that comes to mind, what would make it, like, better? From my perspective, it's just more schools having triathlon programs. Make it more competitive.

Yeah, more schools because also, like, you need schools to, like, want to host races. And also there's the whole, this is like, again, could be a whole podcast. People have done whole podcasts on it. But, like, the, it's not like an official NCAA sport. It's an emerging sport. Okay. So, like that, there need to be more schools, like, objectively for that to happen. Okay.

So this requires, like, somebody who lives in whatever, Florida or North Carolina or whatever, it's saying, you know what? I want to take this on this thing and try to start a team at the school and spearheading it. Like, I was just like, it seems like daunting. Schools have, like, every, because there's Title IX sports, which triathlon is a Title IX sport. And like, it sounds like every so often they'll vote on which Title IX sport they want to bring in if they need another one to, like, balance out with the football scholarships and stuff like that. At a school. A school will do this. Yeah.

So they were telling us like maybe five or so years ago they voted and like whoever was telling me this story. Like they wanted triathlon, but it ended up being beach volleyball that they got instead. So it wasn't until two years ago that they ended up getting triathlon. So it's really a emerging slow process. But eventually we foresee it being something like track and field maybe where there's most schools have a team. Lydia, can you describe what title nine is for people? We really think people don't know that? Get it right.

I think, okay, we can skip it then. Oh, that's good. I did not know. I did not know triathlon was Title IX. I had no idea. Of course, I know Beach Volleyball is, but I didn't know triathlon was a Title IX sport. People can do a quick, Google.

It's any sport that, like, I mean, technically, like, if you had a women's swim team and not a men's swim team, that would make women swimming a Title IX sport because you're giving more scholarships to women to balance out with sports that only have men. But, like, there is no men's beach volleyball in NCAA, for example.

It doesn't exist. Right. There is men's triathlon. At your school, is there? No. Oh, there's not. No, there's no men's NCAA. Oh, there is zero.

Yeah. Yeah. See, I did not know that. That's so interesting. Wow. Wait, I know people who were, or they were club teams, I guess. Yeah. I know people who, wow.

Okay. See, very cool. Go, girl. It's something new. Okay, well, we have another question here from Ellie Grawl. We'd love to know how the leap from college athlete to pro has been. So kind of going right off of what we just. said here. Obviously, no one's giving you a bike unless you get a sponsor. No one's giving you shoes

unless you find a sponsor. But anything else that has been, has stuck out to you that may be surprised you with the switch. Honestly, no, well, there's two parts. I guess like we're lucky in triathlon because you can race like elite or professional while you're in the NCAA, which for like, obviously for a team sport, you can't be training with your NCAA soccer team and go be on like a pro soccer team because that's just not how that works. So I've been racing as an elite in short course like this whole time. I'm doing both. So it hasn't, I mean, it doesn't feel different. So you're still swimming with your NCAA team and then going to race 70 withers. I get to keep training with them, which is really nice. That is kind of cool because the transition then

is less shocking. You're still immersed in what you're used to in the training environment and then focusing a little more on time trail bikes, obviously, then some of your teammates, but you can go race 70.3s. That's a huge advantage over somebody who's just like in Minnesota going to a bathtub

of a pool and like sitting in their garage trying to train. Yeah, you're still going to like the best facilities. Like when we were into something, we couldn't come swim with you at the fancy pool, for example, because now you can with the pro group. But. Okay.

We'll have to come back. We'll have to come back. Yeah. So does it being an emerging sport, does this, is this kind of like a, not a loophole, but does this allow you to accept prize money and sponsorships? I think it's the same for all sports. So this is where it's really lucky that triathlon is so expensive,

the only time, which is that the prize money you accept can't be more than the expenses of your sports. I see. And in what world are you going to have made? make more money as a low level pro than you spend on the sport. Oh, that's interesting. So even travel and equipment, everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. Wow, that's really cool. Like if you're a basketball athlete, you know, you have to pay for shoes or whatever. Yeah. You're like my bike was $25,000. I don't know. Here's your seat. Exactly.

Exactly. Oh, that's super interesting. That's super interesting. Cool, cool, cool. Okay. Well, here's another question here. This is from, oh boy, I Olivia Harris, I think, would love to hear about her goals in the triathlon and where she sees herself in five years.

Has this something you think about, or are you kind of from race to race right now? Definitely, I mean, of course, I'm from race to race, like, not trying to have super, like, big expectations for the season. I mean, my big goal was to qualify for worlds, and now I've done that. Let's go. Yeah. I'm really happy. about that. But I don't know, big picture. I just kind of want to see where it takes me and like

just keep climbing up as high as I can go. I mean, kind of as I said before, like if I don't, like, as a kid, like if I could just make it to this, like I'd be pretty stoked about that. Of course, you always want more. Like you get to this level and you're not like, oh, that's good enough. Yeah. It's competitive nature. No, I was very similar. I was like just wanted to be a pro athlete so bad and then you got there and like, okay, now let's make some new goals. Here we go. This is already amazing. Yeah. Lydia,

do you have any interest in racing the T-100 if you got invited? Yes, absolutely. If anyone is listening, London, put me in. You know,

even I don't even know how the wildcards work, but I think you're on the right track. I got some information of people I can contact, so. Okay. Oh,

I could have given you that information. I just didn't know how it worked. Well, well, I do actually need to ask you for somebody's email, but okay, we'll chat offline.

That's not a problem. I'm happy to help you in anyway. I've lost track of wild cards, hot shots, wild shots, pot shots. Yeah, but the way the T100 series works now, how there's so many races and the contracted athletes only have to do four or five, there are a lot of room for wild cards. So someone like you who's racing really well at the 70.3 level and going up the contender rankings, I think there's a good chance that by mid-season, end of season, you do get offered a spot.

Yeah, I was thinking about this as I was running today. Just the fact that you had that fastest run from St. George, that's like kind of a flashy thing that can get a marketing person who's like on the board of people who picks a hot shot or yeah like yeah but I think it's more about ranking now oh really yeah okay well then you're racing well too so it's not a problem yeah I was looking through the rankings because they like have them on the T100 website and I'm yeah like not in the top but I think do you have to have three you have three races oh okay and last season yeah because because you haven't done it's like their races from

last season and this season yeah you haven't done three long course races yet so I bet you Once you do Happy Valley, you might jump. Happy Valley, FTW straight to London. Yeah, that's the trajectory. That would be ideal. Works really well with my plan for my season and my plan that I don't really have. Manifest it. Yeah.

Okay, we have one more little question for you from the app, and actually it's from B, who, B from TTL. So you sound, this is my own projection here, but you've been very positive about, you sound like you've had this ideal growth throughout, You ran well, you went in college, you got on this triathlon team, you got fast quickly, you were racing elite quickly, now you've only done two races, you're already doing really well. But B's question is, what adversities do you feel affect women in triathlon and what adversities have affected you personally in the sport? Also, she said also outside of the sport, if that's something you wanted to talk about. Yeah, well, it certainly hasn't been ideal.

I mean, my journey just to get to triathlon, like the reason I got to triathlon, was because running was a mess. So that's part one. Gosh, for women in general, I don't know, I work for a women's media company, so I have to have a good answer for this one. But I don't know. I mean, it's hard to, like, being in a sport

where the prize money is equal and, like, things like that. I mean, we're really lucky compared to some other sports where, like, they don't even have that. And I think probably we take it for granted a lot of the time. But I don't know, you see things like the women's like slots for Kona and like even it's not for the pros. It's for the age groupers, but things like that where like just because there are more men in the sport, men kind of get a spotlight more easily. I also think from my perspective, like the prize money or not the prize money is equal, but the sponsorship is heavier on the men's side, I would say.

Yeah, to hijack the question of it, I do think triathlon's pretty good, even in terms of sponsorship. The people at the top level, Lucy Charles. Yeah. Laura Phillip, they're making a really good living. Maybe not equal to what Yon was making, but I do think that in this sport particularly, there's pretty good equality.

We don't know. That's the other thing. We don't know for sure. NDAs and whatever and whatnot. Yeah. I mean, I think because also it's racing, so it's a little bit more like, I don't know, you can't be like,

because with basketball and soccer, they'll be like, oh, the women don't play as well as the men, but like you can't make, you can't even make that argument. No. Try-oathlon. Not at all. We're doing the same course.

Yeah, I mean, I guess we're not as fast, but that's not our fault. But it's like, got nothing to do with speed. You can't tell how fast somebody's going, like, when they're biking or when they're running, really. And it's really just more about the dynamics of the race. And I don't know. Like, I personally don't really watch that much men's triathlon anymore, but I'm watching all of the women's stuff. And Paula's races are exciting to me. And people that are racing that she will eventually race are now very interesting and exciting to me.

So it's definitely not less exciting. I think it's why it's exciting that someone like Lydia's coming up the ranks. It's like more pro-women in the sport who are pushing the boundaries and making us all who are at the top level be faster because we're like, damn, Lydia's running a 119, I better get my ass in gear.

So it's just good for the sport to have people like you, Lydia, coming through and being fast. Have you had any thoughts, like, through your experiences of ways more from the bottom end, I guess, that we can encourage more women to be in the sport because there's obviously like the equality on the start line at Kona

but then there's there's like all these bottom levels as well of trying to just get more people aware of the sport in the first place gosh. That's a really hard question but if you were just like oh my gosh yes I have a great answer for that ready to go no I mean I feel like people

like just trying to it's like a small scale like trickle down effect sort of thing like getting people you know involved with the sport More grassroots. Yeah, like, I'm, Arizona just hired a new basketball coach, and I'm trying to, like, turn her into a triathlete because she's, she said her life goal was to do an Ironman, and I was like, let's go bike.

No time like the bike. My strength coach, I'm trying to get her to do a triathlon. So I don't know, just like, and I think, like, having people around, especially in the NCAA, that's kind of a helpful thing because they see triathlon and, like, they see that it can be a big thing. like we have this awards dinner thing at the end of the year where everybody like gets all dressed up and we get awards like my team got team performance of the year

which is like so then it's like all these athletes seeing like oh triathlon is legit because we just beat out every other sport for performance of the year so against basketball and everything else that's amazing wow that's cool yeah I think having women's NCAA is perfect example of how to get more women in the sport so yeah that's really cool

Lydia, thank you so much for being on the podcast. This is our first Devo athlete of the year, right? We haven't done another Debo athlete in this calendar year. We're in our third year of the team, so we've had other Devo athletes on, but you're the first one from, what are we going to say, class 2025? We wanted to have you on after Oceanside,

but I'm glad we waited till after St. George, you got two good races under your belt. Yeah, true. Lydia, where can people follow you? I would say just Instagram. at Lydia Russell? Yes, with three Ls at the end. Russell.

If you're having a hard time with that, I think we also have it linked on the TTL on dot com. We got the whole roster of the whole team. Also, if you go to the TTL Instagram, we did a collaboration post with you. I think it might have been our last one or a second to last one.

Yeah. If that's easier for folks. I'm not hiding. Yeah, everyone go follow Lydia and cheer for her at Happy Valley. And for the rest of the year, we're really excited that you're racing in TTL. Honestly, seeing you on course wearing the kit, reppping our little team, it really means a lot to us. And it's so cool that you're having the success under while wearing our kit.

It's so cool. So thank you. Yeah. The cheers are great. It's really fun one. Yeah, the TTL people really come out for the 70.3s. It's, I agree. There are more in Oceanside, I have to say.

Oceanside, I mean, it's just a vibe. That's why it's ocean side. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Well, thank you, Lydia. We're going to let you go because it's getting a bit late. All right.

Yeah, we really appreciate it. And I think we'd love to have you on again, like, later in the air. Yeah, we can do a follow-up. Check in. We're going to loop back, see how the season's going. And in the meantime, just keep it rolling. All right. Thanks, guys.

Thanks. See ya. Thanks, Lydia. I'll check to you soon. Wow, I love her. I'm great. I'm so excited. for her whole life and career as an athlete.

Well done on the recruiting team. Yeah, well done, guys. Well done. Yeah, she's great. I think she's going to win that race in Happy Valley. I think she will too. Yeah, that's going to be great. Okay, well, we're going to move on to our regular show here with questions.

And this is one of the best batch of questions I think we've ever had. Eric, you said something last week about getting philosophical. And we got so many philosophical questions. So I saved a few for future weeks. But we do have some philosophy questions dropping. I feel like we got pretty deep with Lydia there on a lot of subjects. It's just the theme of the day. Yeah, that's great.

I love it. So if you are listening, you can submit your questions to the podcast at that triathlonlife.com slash podcast. We always are excited about questions. So if there's something that's been on your mind, just it's easy. Just go on there. Send it in. Mike, you read on the podcast, momentary fame for you. Brack to all your triathlon friends.

I was actually feeling kind of bad today as I was going through them because there are some that I leave out and I'm like, oh, that kind of sucks that they're just. I always feel that way too. I'm like, ugh. Black hole. Yeah. Like I read them, but yeah. Yeah.

Anyway. Sorry. And then if you want to help support the podcast, as you can tell, we are currently not doing any ads. We have never done ads, actually. and you can do that at the same length that triathlonlife.com slash podcast you can become a podcast supporter.

We really appreciate that and we are very, we love our podcast supporters and we might be sending them a little fun little video this week actually. First question here is from Brad. Hi team. Came from 2020 COVID distraction seeking

stayed for great content. Awesome, Brad. My question is around hurt and hurt is in quotes. We often hear pros talking about the part of the race that hurt or knowing that a certain type of race is going to hurt. But how much of that, if any, is literal pain?

Or is it something closer to extreme discomfort from things like overly high heart rate, perceived effort, heat exposure, etc.? I'm worried expecting pain is setting a dangerous precedent for us age groupers. So would be good to know what it actually means. Much love, looking forward to see you in Vancouver, Brad. Yeah, yeah, that's tough. You don't want to be so fixated on the pain that you almost, will it to happen or that like when it does happen you're you're so prepared and you dwell on it

and everything versus I think the idea that people have when they say this is like hey racing isn't perfect did if you expect to feel great the entire time you're setting yourself up for some disappointment so that's like the dichotomy of it is knowing that it is a component of racing but not being not dwelling on it and just being okay with it and and knowing that it can pass right hmm so I've noticed this thing in myself, and I'm curious to how far it goes. Obviously, you guys are like 30 steps down the ladder, but I've noticed that the pain for me is becoming less and less this thing that I fear and more and more this tool that I use to gauge where my effort is at. So as a professional, does that keep going to the point where you're like, I don't fear the pain at all? It's just, it tells me where I'm at and how much fuel I have left on this effort.

Yeah, I mean, I guess pain is like just one word for it, but discomfort is maybe a better thing. It's not just like this switch where it's like, oh, no, I'm in pain. Like you're bumping up against this feeling of like I'm on the limit or I'm over the limit and I'm going to blow up soon and trying to get as close to that as you can tolerate in managing that pacing. Right. So I think pros are very good at knowing where that is, feeling where that is, and being comfortable, you know, quote unquote, in that uncomfortable space. It's not, you know, it's like, and the same thing is that everybody always says that, like,

cliche of like, it, you know, it doesn't get more uncomfortable, it doesn't get more painful. You just go faster, you know, or it doesn't get easier. I think that is true, but, like, we're very good at bumping up against that pain, that discomfort for a very long time. But, like, keep in mind that we're not just so. abstaining three times as much pain because we're right right no but that does kind of confirm that that that thought that's really interesting yeah thank you eric it was interesting for me to like observe lionel's interviews and stuff before 70.3 ocean side and then witness him in the race when he

passed me and the things he was saying before like I'm going to suffer this is like I'm getting ready to suffer and I think that's the reason that I get nervous is I'm standing on the start line I'm like I can't believe what we have to do right now it is insane And travel on is so hard. And not just the racing, but even like yesterday's brick workout, I'm like, couldn't fathom even completing it. But I know I'm going to. So I think it is a little bit the, not just the pain, but like the monstrosity of the challenge ahead of you that makes you a little bit fearful of what's to come. But like in a healthy way.

But I still think personally I could tap a little bit more into the suffering than someone like Lionel does. I feel like a lot of the time I've won these races without necessarily getting. getting to that point of like extreme suffer. And I think in order to win like a world championship or a T-100, it's, it requires you to tap a little more into that zone of pain. I don't know. I like, of course I'm uncomfortable, but I'm kind of riding this line between like, this is completely sustainable versus like I'm at war and I'm suffering till the finish line.

Yeah. I don't know. It's hard to answer. We're so familiar with it because we experience it every day. pushing ourselves in some way most days. So it's not like a foreign feeling. It's the only thing we know. If we don't, we feel very useless. Today I had an easy day. I had was a swim, but I went to this yoga class. And I have, I'm a yoga. I'm obsessed with yoga. I fucking love it. And I used to do it all the time, right? I used to do it all the time. And I get so addicted to it. Like I'm afraid that

today's yoga class put me down this path of addiction that I have let go of over the last years, because it's time consuming to go to yoga. But it is so, like, I'm good at it because I danced growing up. So I have really good body awareness and balance and flexibility. And I go and I feel great after, but I don't go to challenge myself necessarily in the same way that I do in a triathlon or in a swimming session or a biking session or running session. I'm going to, like, stretch and balance and breathe and just like challenge myself in that way. Because sometimes it's hard to just let go of like, this has to hurt, you know? Yeah.

Just be like, I'm not here to hurt. I'm here to feel better for tomorrow's hurt session. So, yeah. I don't know if this is not related to the question at all, but it was just like this realization I had while I was there that that's why I enjoy it so much is because it doesn't hurt. Yeah. You know, for whatever reason, yoga, Paula, is I just, I just can't, I can't picture it. Because it's like so, it's so, like, slow and like, you got to just work through these movements and you're, I don't know.

I think if it was like always doing something and like kind of suffering like I think that's why I have to go to a yoga class because if I just put the mat out and try to do yoga by myself I last three minutes but if someone's instructing a class and you're in the pigeon pose for two minutes and you're like this is absolute awful but you're just doing it I don't know it sometimes it's in the same way it helps to have a coach you need out of someone instructing you to do stuff sometimes so yeah anyway that was a tanned That's a great tangent. That's a great tangent. Next question here is from Andrew. Hey, TTTL crew, different questions for each of you. Paula, how, if at all, will your training change now that your next few races are T100 and not Iron Man 70.3 point three? If the distances are similar, does the different vibe of a T100 versus a 70.3 race change how you prepare. Or G&Ts. Give me some more wine. Yeah, it just makes me dread every day. day. No, just kidding. Wow. Just because it's just because of how hard you have to go. No, because it's just a completely different race. Like in my mind, I race T-100 PTO races three years ago and I won one. I won Daytona. I've podiumed at Eminton. I've been good at them. But in my mind now, they're just such a short course race where you have this second generation of people coming up from short course Olympic distance athletes and the type of race it is is so different. than a 70.3 where it's a one loop bike course and you can get kind of out of sight out of mind. It's a bit less technical, a little more strength-based. The half marathon's longer than the 18K.

So I just think that the 70.3 suits my current physiology better and I can win them. Like I can go to St. George and I can win. I can go to Asian side. I can win. It's harder for me to imagine winning a T-100. And what gets me out the door each day is like wanting to win a race. So when I just have two T-100s in the near future, it's a little bit harder for me to get excited about them. And it's not to say that you don't have the ability to win one. It's kind of like we were talking about with Lydia with like short course relative to the long course. There are so many factors. And literally anybody in the world could randomly be selected to be on the start list.

It's so much harder to like visualize that of like visualize winning, visualize people you're racing. I'm just diving into the water with a bunch of killers. Yeah. Right? I mean, that's at least my perspective. You have to be really brave to do it. I get much more nervous. But to answer the question specifically, no, my training has not changed that much.

And if anything, I need to put a little bit more focus on the technical elements of riding, like U-turns. So like the other day, I just went out and practiced U-turns because the courses are lapped. There's seven or eight laps per course on the bike. And you're literally U-turning like, yeah, 18 times and cornering 57 times. So that part of it becomes much more important and can make a bigger difference than being really skilled at those things in something like St. George, where there's one U-turn in the entire course. So that's the only difference. But in terms of the intensity, duration, et cetera, of everything, it's so similar to being a good 70.3 athlete that that hasn't really changed. And you know, it's funny, you say U-turns a couple of times.

And I just noticed that as I see age groupers do this, no one takes like the A line around. a U-turn. People are always like 10 to 15 feet further than the cone when they take their U-turn. And I feel like I'm the only person that's taking like the race line around the cone. It's really hard to do if you don't do it. I mean, yeah, it's and plus it's congested. It's congested when you're doing it in the H-group race as well. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that's probably right. There's a lot of factors. Yeah. And then the next one's for Eric. In a nod to some deeper philosophical questions, this is one of them. How does your injury change your definition of success for 2025, or have the metrics you use to ultimately look back on and judge the success of a season remain the same?

Does healing and coming back from an injury, regardless of immediate performance outcomes, elicit the same level of personal satisfaction for you as purely achieving a high performance? So, first of all, can we get an update? Because I saw something shocking yesterday. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm running. Incredible.

It just with that timeline It makes no sense But I feel like I've told this like little Many anecdote like 12 times now Because everybody I see wants to know about it But like I still can't really turn the ignition In the car with my right hand

So if you can imagine that motion That's very very painful Or like trying to time my shoes But if my thumb is pointed skyward basically Your hands oriented in that way Running does not hurt So it's it's like very much more the muscles that are that are used for like pronation and like twisting a doorknob that are just. Or breaking on a bike.

Yeah, or like I cannot grab. Oh, you can't. I cannot like grab a bike handlebar with like any grip strength whatsoever. That is super painful. But I can run. So like thank God because I would be going, I'd be going pretty crazy. I might be going to yoga. You couldn't trust me.

You could not do yoga. I could, and I'd just be like one hour shavasna. Yeah, I just laying down. I was actually thinking about that while I was doing yoga today. I'm like, yeah, Eric couldn't do this. Eric couldn't do this? Do I imagine if it was an appropriate activity and I came to the conclusion that now? No.

No. Oh, man, that's funny. But honestly, I was envisioning Eric's return to running like treadmill for two weeks and then Shevlin Park giant-ass path that has no rocks for a couple weeks. but I went today because I had an easy day and walked while he ran and the trail was super technical. He didn't do the same trail, but it's okay. I just think what Eric needs to do is not fall while he's running.

Yes, because that would be catastrophic. So yes, he can run, he can hold his arm pain free, but I think in my mind, his only goal is to not crash and make it worse because he has a broken bone still. Yeah. Even just like the first night that I was broken, I think we told this story, the Oilers scored a goal unexpectedly, and I, like, reacted quickly just to, like, throw my hands in the air.

And that's what I need to avoid. That was so, so painful, just like the quick flex of the arm. And if I were to trip, even the act of, like, making the motion to try to catch myself, even if my arm never hit the ground, that would be not good. So I need to play it pretty safe. So I've done a couple of runs outside. I've tried to keep it on non-technical. Paul is criticizing me for today

that was maybe slightly over the line but for the most part I mean that's like two runs but I've been doing some uphill treadmill runs like what I did yesterday was I did 20 minutes at 11% jogging so I was actually jogging

and then I dropped it down to 3% and did 430 per K and then I dropped it down to 1% and did 4 minutes per K I did that two times Oh that's real running yeah keep the bounce to a minimum but like still touch just a little bit of legs

speed so I don't just like completely lose that. But to answer your philosophical question, I've always kind of been of the mindset. I feel like I switch gears pretty well, especially if I'm more injured to like number one goal right now is get healthy. And like how do I get healthy as fast as possible? Not how do I start running as quickly as possible. Just like how do like what are all the things that I can do right now with the PT or the stretching or the little freaking, you know, picking up a marbles with your toes or like all the, little stuff that is super unglamorous. I think I'm generally pretty good at that and treat like getting injury free as a project.

This is like the weirdest injury I've ever had where half of the day, like all these things make me think I'm not injured until I do the wrong motion and then it's stupid. Right. It's not really changing my goals as of right now. My goals this year are, you know, we're kind of already changed. and a little bit unorthodox relative to my pure triathlon days. But one of the things that I did want to do is a swim run. And that I'm kind of like just mentally on the fence about while I wait to see how long it takes me to be able to actually swim effectively and build up a little bit of volume for that.

And if that goes well, then I think I could see myself doing an actual triathlon. And so I'm like in this weird space right now. I'm not really kind of being able to latch on to any particular thing because I'm not quite sure how long this weird ass injury is going to last. Yeah, okay. And you had told me off the podcast some fun plans for races coming up, I guess we will get to those as they approach. Oh, yeah.

Lots and lots of fun plans. And I just got to, you know, it's hard, like I said, it's hard right now to make the solid plans when this is a little bit of a question mark. but luckily there was nothing that was like in the next two weeks that I'm having to miss. Yeah, yeah, right. And then the last question from Andrew here was for me and it was, can we get an update on your flip turn, flop turn journey? Yeah, there's not much to say, but I only flip turn now.

It's not even something I ever think about. I'm a flip turning guy. Yeah. That's what I am. I don't think about it. It's not, I don't ever even the temptation now to do like a touch turn or I forget what they're called. It's not even there. I don't even know what you call those things because I don't do them.

It doesn't even enter into my head. So as this been a positive change, are your times faster? Are you glad? Do you just feel less uncool? Like, you glad you committed to this thing? Yeah, I'd say all of those things. My times are for sure faster. I think I've become a better swimmer overall because of, I think it's like, I think it's

helped my, like my physiology. I think the slightly more hypoxic, like never getting. a big breath and actually having to hold your breath for an extra few seconds every time you flip turn, I think it has kind of affected me positively in the swim. I feel like that makes any sense, but... I feel like that's certainly for open water, I would think that would be a thing. Because you're not ever getting to just take the super jumbo breath in open water.

Right, right, yeah, and no breaks really. And then I also feel, you know, but my goal isn't so much to be the... I'd rather be a really good swimmer, a really good cyclist, and a really good runner than being able to put it all together slightly, I guess. Like, I want to be able to run with good runners, to bike with good cyclists and not drown in the water, really. But this is making me feel like a more legit swimmer.

I love that. And that's been the most fun part about it, is getting to the pool and being like, no, I'm going to swim like a swimmer swims today. I love that. That, like, instantly makes me think of, like, Paul and the U-Turning and, like, how I've really worked on my run for more of the years.

Like, you're being a student of that individual sport and trying to be the best you can be at that instead of, oh, I'm just going to, you know, whatever. Yeah, because like we've said so many times when people write in about flip turns, doing flip turns doesn't make you better at triathlon because you're not doing flip turns in triathlon, but like Nick said, it's the approach of being more like a swimmer

when you're at the pool. It just, you now feel like a better summer and you are. So it's kind of an interesting domino effect, I guess. You start with this one thing that seems very simple, but it leads to, you know, just being a generally better swimmer. When peer pressure goes right, that's what happened here. We're here for you, man.

Last question here, this is from Maggie, and this is real philosophical, but I really really like it. Hey, tripod, in the spirit of Eric asking for philosophical questions, in the context of life, or specifically in triathlon and racing, do you think you have to experience the bad to truly appreciate the good? Yeah. I think most, if not all of us, have experienced the bad. so we're unavoidably biased.

If we think we have to experience the bad to appreciate the good, is that just the way we justify the bad experiences to ourselves? Cheers, Maggie. Damn. I feel like this is like an hour podcast. This is insane

because I had this like massive text conversation with Ralph Dunning and it was like mostly me texting him as I was thinking about all this stuff while I was on a two-hour trainer ride the other day and Paula was off riding her bike outside and the sun was shining. and the title of my note, which is like an idea that I kind of have as like the basis for a potential film or content project is,

you have to hate something before you can love it. Wow. Yeah. Because like you have to go through that really hard time and whatever it is. And like you trip and fall and like this thing is like so agonizing that you get through that and you realize, wow, I really, really do love it because I went through that. it and I still want to be here versus, you know, like, oh, that I started it and I was good at it and it kept

going great and it's always been great. And then like, do you really know if you love that activity or not at that point? This reminds me of what that TTL kid said at the screening, which just said, I fell in love with my prisoner. And, you know, he was talking about swimming in that context. But, I mean, I think of, when I think

when I read this question, I think about Paula and how she has mentioned several times how she was doing really well in short course racing and wasn't able to smell the roses while she was doing well. And since she had that and then a fall from that and now this rebirth, now she has this newfound appreciation for it. I mean, it's like the most laid out clear version of this question. Paula, I mean, I imagine when you heard that right away, you're like, of course. That's exactly what I thought of, Nick.

Yeah, is my own personal experience with this, but I think it relates to a lot of people and a lot of different avenues. Even, like Eric said, you have to hate something before you can love it. Even learning to ride a bicycle. Like, it's so frustrating. You're putting a foot down. It's scary and learning to snowboard anything in life. Like, it's frustrating at first, and then you love it. And triathons no different.

And then I was, I, of course, I had frustrating times early on at certain points, but I was really successful early on. I never lost any races. I was junior world championships. like right from the get-go, but then I really hated it for a lot of years, like on the surface. I think underneath I loved it, but I struggled a lot and then came back and found the success in my 30s now. And I would say generally love it again,

or I just love that we're able to make a career out of it and have live this life that we have by being triathletes. So, yeah, it's a really interesting thought that I don't think. think I had the same appreciation or love for it back in the day when I hadn't had any real hardship in it. I was just rolling so smoothly. Yeah. Yeah, I think, you know, and don't get confused about this. This doesn't mean that you need to go like put yourself an intentional suffering to get to this point. I think what we're talking about is like natural obstacles that occur through time spent

like working towards a goal or working on something that feels purposeful like you will come across these things that are frustrating and that you need to work through that will make you better and make you enjoy that and appreciate the process more. It even applies to like going to school. It applies to everything. That's what's crazy.

Go into university. You're like... So cool. Okay, I'm in this class. I hate it. This is hard. Test is so hard. Studying sucks. But then you ultimately get out of it something that's so valuable. So yeah, it's really crazy.

I even think there's like there's even a next level which is you can, a difficulty in one thing can make you appreciate not just that same thing later but something completely different. Yeah. You know, so I for, I think it's no secret.

It's been kind of like emotionally a tough year for me and now I appreciate triathlon more. Like I'm less nervous for racing. There's less negative emotion around racing because it has a different context in the highs and lows of my life. And so now I enjoy triathlon more and I enjoy training even more because of that. Yeah. Because you knew what true suffering was. That's like, it's nothing compared to that.

Yeah, yeah. I do think, like I've talked about this before with, you know, athletes who are, you know, just asking for social media advice or just like career advice or whatever. and I think something that Paul and I have done very well is sharing like that process of, I like to think of it as the beautiful struggle. Like nobody wants to hear you complain, but saying like, hey, this is hard. I'm working through it. I'm still like shooting for the goal and everything. I think that gets missed a lot in society these days with algorithms and people trying to put on it,

be perfect and stuff. And I think, I don't know, the more that we can talk about this, the more that you can talk about it with friends personally and stuff, like, hey, I'm going through some stuff and here's what it is and you work through it. everybody understands and realizes like this is a universal truth and it's okay and it can it can make you better and happier ultimately so is this not something that you that you hate to admit is this something that you accept wholeheartedly the debt we have to go through hard stuff well we definitely have to go through hard stuff but to really appreciate the good stuff you need to

transcend that adversity i don't i don't hate to admit it i think it's it's a like i said beautiful struggle. I think it's fantastic and it's part of life and just like embrace the obstacle is the way. Like everything is going to make you stronger. If it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger. cliche. But true. I kind of hate to admit it because I think we're just wired to avoid suffering, right? And as much as we put ourselves through it in triathlon, we try to do things to trick ourselves to make it easier. It's unavoidable though. That's why I say it. You don't have to go see, you don't have to be like, go hold your hand over a fire.

Right. Like the fire will find you. Don't worry. The fire will be ready. And you'll get with it. But the thing about this whole thing is you don't even realize until potentially even years after the struggle that this has occurred. Like, yeah, we're talking about it on a podcast,

but sometimes it's just happening in life, like over the span of a decade potentially. And then after you wake up and you're like, holy shit. Like that whole happened. and now I'm loving it. So it's not necessarily like you're aware of this the whole time. Maybe the next time, though, you may become aware of it and have a little bit more Zen in that moment as you go through that. Instead of panic. For the next time.

Yeah, exactly. Wow. Well, we'd love to hear from everyone if you'd like this slightly more philosophical approach to triathlon. I don't know. I like telling people to put fucking six gels in a bottle. Yeah, I mean, we can give you what elastic laces to buy if you really want. I think like a mix is, probably the best. But that was fun. Yeah. Yeah. And also, it was fun to have Lidion. I hope you guys

enjoyed that. Please go follow her. Like just, she's cool. She's awesome. She's on the grind. Yeah, we'll try it. Anything we can do to help get her. We'll try to have another, another Devo athlete on. Maybe Liam next or something. That would be awesome. Those guys, like, I try to message him and John and they're just like, oh, I'm in her, I'm in Turkey. Oh, I'm in Japan. They're on the SIM card. Or just the SIM card broke. workers. But that would be great. Yeah, thanks for all the support of the Devo team too, especially people who bought a kit. Yeah, exactly. Like, I didn't fully get into it, but if you're not aware of how the Devo team works, we've sold TTL kits at the beginning of each year. We use the funds from that largely to fund the development team. And, yeah, they're a great group of kids.

They're not quite kids. They're young adults, but, like, we feel like we have a little bit part in what they're going on. And if you bought a kit, you have a part as well. So, thanks everybody. on a different podcast actually. It's called the Triathlon Therapy Podcast. I don't know if any of you guys have heard of it, but Tim Reed, Sam Appleton, Liz Blatchford. I'll kind of interviewed me on the podcast. And we were talking about back in the day

and when we were 20 and that we were kids. I'm like, when you're 20, you don't feel like you're a kid. But now when you're 35, you're like, I was a kid when I was 20. I didn't know shit. It's all about your perspective. I definitely don't see Lydia as a kid. kid, but she's only 23. She's so young. And I think there's a lot of exciting future ahead of her. And as this plug, go listen to the Trathlon Therapy Podcast if you want to listen to another.

I didn't even know that existed. Have you guys heard of it? No, I had not. No. They said primarily their audiences on Australia because they're all Australian, but all athletes that I've followed and I raised Liz back in the day, so it's kind of cool to catch up with them. I mean, it's crazy. Even if you follow somebody, like, the number of people that come up are like, do you still make YouTube videos? Like, oh, my God.

Yeah. But, you know, there's a lot. There's a lot of stuff going on. There's so much now. There's so much now. Even since we started the podcast, so many triathlon podcasts have popped up. Coincidence. Oh, this was awesome.

Thanks, everybody, for listening. We'll see you next week. Bye. Bye.