That Triathlon Life Podcast - Nick visits Bend, triathlon workouts on Zwift, recovery times, power meters, and more!

Episode Date: June 16, 2022

This week we got to record the pod in the same room! Nick visits bend to help shoot for Paula who is racing PTO Canadian Open triathlon. Questions about Zwift courses, and when to choose what.  Why using a power meter can help even for xterra races, vaporfly vs alphafly, and more! head over to http://www.thattriathlonlife.com 

Hey everyone, welcome to That Triathlon Life podcast. I'm Eric Loggerstrom. I'm Paula Finley. I'm Nick Goldstone. Paula and I are both professional triathletes. We're also a couple. And Nick is our very good friend, professional musician by trade, but also amateur triathlet. We are actually all here, geographically, in the same location, in Bend right now, coming to you live. And the reason being is Nick is up here to help me film Paula for the PTO-Edmonton race special documentary. So we just jumped off of a moped that we were riding together while I was shooting Paula doing hill repeats on Skyliner Road and we ran right in here. We wanted to make sure we did not

miss a podcast and we were dedicated to chatting with answering questions and doing fun stuff today. There's a pretty good. I shaved my, well, now I have a mustache. When I knew I was getting on the scooter, I gave myself a mustache. It was pretty good. The Ray bands of mustache with Eric on the back of the scooter. There's a good selfie that I'll put at least on my story. Yeah. We're getting lots of looks from the locals. So I'd like to start out by reading one of our Apple podcast reviews. They're mostly positive, but we did get a one-star review, and it's very critical, specifically of me.

So let me just... I can't quite figure out what their username is, but the title is Tony Hale overload. So off to a good start already. And for people who don't know who Tony Hale is, he's Buster on Arrested Development. So this is very much directed towards me. Too much slurping and fanboy from the quote-unquote age grouper who happens to have more quote-unquote expertise with each week. He should stay in his lane and be the moderator. A lot of bad advice given, but it's made worse by the authority with which it's given.

Wow. Yeah, we've had nothing but good reviews on our podcast rating. So this was a bit of a slap in the face to us. But like a little bit comical because we are not professionals in a lot of the things that we talk about. We discuss things and give answers in the context of us having experience in these areas, not pretending to be doctors and nutritionists. And I feel like we're pretty open and kind of like poke fun on that a little bit. So Nick, stay in your lane.

I thought the Tony Hale joke was pretty clever. I do see a slight resemblance between me and Tony Hale. And I love a rest of element. The slurping and fanboy. I mean, I am a fanboy. And you know what? I do think you guys are great. And I think you guys think I'm great in a different kind of way.

Maybe not as much as a triathlete. Yeah. And I, I mean, you don't slurping. I've never heard that. I'm not, I'm not as well read as this person. It's probably like when a dog is like salivating because they just can't get enough of something. And you're just like slurping your saliva. Well, can't even.

I guess what we want to. say is that all the stuff we said, just like Paula said, is just our, not our expertise, is our experience. Yeah. And we're hoping that this podcast will be more entertaining than anything else. Yes. You know, Eric is not a coach. Paula's not a coach.

I'm not a coach. None of us are certified coaches, but Paula and Eric have become some of the top triathletes in the world. So they have a lot of experience doing that. They have a lot of experience being coached. Yeah, exactly. And I have experience, like a lot of age groupers out there following a plan that's not without a coach. And I do pretty well.

I mean, I've won an overall race. It was a small race. And I've done a bunch of races, you know. Yeah. And I hope that my experience helps certain people. Obviously not this person. And I think it brings a little bit of, like I said last week, I think, context to what we're talking about. You know, it's like you're more normal.

and more relatable than us, potentially in the amount of time you can dedicate to training, in the level of racing that you're doing, stuff like that. So I feel like your balance is very much appreciated. Well, I don't know if I needed to hear that. That's very nice. No, but I'm just to, yeah, just so everyone knows. We don't agree with this. Well, I think the problem is I don't necessarily disagree.

I think that our advice shouldn't be taken to the letter. I think this person's maybe just looking for a podcast that is like a scientific like paper-driven, peer-reviewed study thing. But there's other podcasts out there that can satisfy that. That's just how we do. We're talking about our experiences and how we have fun. Yeah, that's true. That's true.

So sorry that we disappointed you. We won't do better. We're not changing anything, but just like, go find a different podcast. Right. And now since we're keeping it very professional, let's go right into our spelling beat. Which is not the first time. I don't know what this person thinks we're going to do. Anyway, we won't talk about them anymore.

Let's see. Here we go. Here it is. Oh, Eric, don't look at these words. All right, spelling B. This is for Eric and Paula, although it seems like it's mostly for Eric. It's definitely just for Eric.

But Paula, you interject if you feel so inclined. Okay. Okay. Flip turning well in triathlon is unnecessary. There's no flip turns in the water. How do you spell unnecessary? Un-N-N-E-C-E. S-S-A-R-Y.

Yeah, never in a million years, but I've gotten that. No, that's correct. Double-end. Double-S- and double-end? No, not a chance. But I could spell it out writing it, but... Oh, no, I cannot.

I'm just like, it starts with the U, probably ends with the Y. That's all I got. Okay, next word. When Eric and Nick eat cookies, Paula has to come by with a vacuum to clean up the mess. How do you spell vacuum, Eric?

V-A-C-U-U-M? Another D. double, yes, two use. I knew that because I use vacuums every day. What does it say? Vacuum on the handle? You have to spell it before you turn it on. Okay, great.

Next one. Wearing a helmet in the swim portion of a triathlon to save time and transition is Kakamemi. How do you spell? Cockamamee. What is that? That is actually a word. You never heard that word?

Well, I've heard the word, but it's like from the 40s. Well, it's still a word. Cockamamie, Ruth. I expect you to spell it correctly. Oh, I have no idea. C-O-C-K-A-M-A-M-I-E. That is correct. How does he do it?

I don't know. How does he do it? I mean, it's spelled like it's sound about it. Well, I would have put a line at the end. I don't know. I'm just not a good, English is my second language. Starting T-T. It actually is.

That's why that's funny. Yeah, it's a very close second. Starting T-T-L. has given you both the fancy label of entrepreneur. Language of origin. Yeah, French. E-N-T-R-E-N-T-R-E-N. No, E-N-T-E.

Wow, that is, like, so hard for me to visualize. E-N-T-E-E-O-E-N-T-R-E, P-R-E-N-U-E-R. E-U-R-E-R. It is it, E-U? Oh, very good, though. Got it with the last work. No, that's one more word, actually. But very close, Eric.

That took a lot of work. I feel like that's one that could be U-E-R. Oh, well, I mean, it's probably from French, and they just said they have their rules. That's why I was going with you. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, I admit defeat. Got you.

This is only the second time I would have gotten that one right if you guys would have to just let me have a minute. Could you interject then, please? I tried to, and then you talk over me. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. beguiled with food. You can go for it, baby?

No, I only can spell French words, but... Oh. Next time I'll put some more French words in there. Crosan, baguette. B-E-G-U-I-L-E-D. That's correct. Very good. So, do you want to hear a funny thing, by the way, why is this here?

Oh, I was going to have you spell decimate, but... Why is this in here? I was going to say decimate. Do you know what decimate means? Just totally destroy. Incorrect. That's now the experience. accepted version of the rule.

Really? Decimate is to reduce by 10%. That's barely destroyed all. Oh. Yeah. Wow. That makes sense. I don't know why I put that on here. Deca, DEC.

Anyway, now we're going to move right on to questions. But first, we're going to have a sip of our... What is it called? Spin drift. Current favorite bubbly water. It's our sponsor for the episode is Spendrift. No, it's not right. We don't have any show sponsors yet, but Spindrift if you're listening, email us.

Okay, questions. Our first question is from a very special listener. Paula, do you want to give some context to who this person is? Yeah, so I open up the emails kind of every morning to see what the new pod questions are and add them to a list. And usually I'll read the email and then read who it's from. But for some reason, my eye was drawn down to like the sign off on this email and I saw it's from Mary Kane, who I'm sure a lot of you are familiar with, but she was and still is a running icon track and field. I don't know a lot of her actual statistics in terms of winning world championships and having records and all of that. But all I know is I was really inspired by her when I was a younger, a little bit younger. She's younger than me, but I watched her run track and field. I followed her story through Nike, through all of that. And I just think it's really cool that she's now decided to give triathlon a go.

So she's actually as the same coach as us. And she's kind of just learning. And it's really cool to kind of follow her journey of. transitioning back into elite sport and giving herself another chance, I guess. I think her running career was taken away from her pretty tragically. She had an amazing, amazing youth, but I don't know. A lot of things happened. I won't get too into it.

But anyway, she sent us a question, which means so much to us. I think it's so cool that she listens to the podcast at all and knows who we are, since I've kind of known who she is and looked up to her a lot. So, Nick, did you just... I just Googled a little bit. And she, at World Junior Championships at the 3,000 meter, got gold in 2014. Yeah. And then in 2016, El Salvador, U23, 1,500 meter silver.

Yeah. And has other, and has some impressive personal bests. She has some great indoor professional results as well. Yeah. Not junior. Got it. So fast. Insanely fast.

But Nick, let's read her question. Great. So it's Hi, Paula, Eric, Nick, and Flynn. I just wanted to send an email since you all. are awesome. It's really fun following along with all of your triathlon journeys through the TTL podcast. She adds, I've listened to every episode, as have all of my local swimming buddies. That's cool. You can probably just skip to the question. She says a lot of nice things. Okay, got it, got it, got it. One question I do have for you. How do you, Paula and Eric, pick which Zwift worlds slash courses you'll ride for workouts?

I tend to just pick the flattest route if I have repeats, but I'm curious if you have a favorite route for different types of indoor workouts. For context, I'm doing all my bike workouts indoors while in New York City because Central Park is better for easy rides. And really, only before 8 a.m. So anyway, to mix it up sounds fun. Also, this might be a ridiculous beginner question, but do you just set your workouts up in Zwift so it captures the data of each interval? Up until now, I've been separately recording on Zwift and my bike computer, and I'm realizing that might be silly slash overcomplicating things. Hope you're having a great week of training and give me a shout out if you're ever in New York. City. Best Mary Cain. I think Paul is definitely more of ZWift expert and definitely more of his Wift

World expert than I am, but I like to go for a course that has a bit of rolling to it just to just a little bit of mix it up and give you a little bit different stimulus and everything, but ideally not a thing where you're going to be descending for any significant length of time.

And then I will do it on the actual Zwift mode, not on like Erg mode where it just automatically does the resistance for you, and I like to actually shift and sort of try to trick my brain into thinking that I'm truly outside. That's how I go with it. Yeah. Yeah.

And I do also simultaneously record on my Wahoo computer just to have that, like, I feel, I trust that data just a little bit more, and it's all kind of in the same place, and then the Zwift data can just do whatever it needs to do. Yeah, I definitely record on my Cork, Wahu setup, and then also have Zwift running. So the upload that Polo sees on Training Peaks is my apps. actual cork that I'm using also outside. Because like Eric said, it's a little bit more consistent to always have the same power. And sometimes the smart trainer that you use might read a little high or low. So the numbers you're getting on Zwift don't match exactly your power meter

computer, which is okay. Sometimes like that's pretty normal for it to vary by 10 or 15 watts as long as you're always looking at a consistent number on your own power meter. And in terms of what world to ride and I kind of either build my own workout on Zwift. So if you go onto the main screen and go custom workouts, you can build your own and say we have six by four minutes or something. You can program that in. So Zwift is telling you which watts to go or like counting down your interval, stuff like that. And you can turn off or on erg mode so you can make it so that it forces you to ride 250 watts or you're just trying to get to 250 with shifting. and all of that.

I trend to put it on not erg mode and also a flat course, though I'm not as impacted by the hills. I don't really love the feeling of having to think about shifting a ton in like a virtual world because I think some of the courses are super unulating and it can kind of break my momentum and focus and everything. So I would say in Watopia, picking the root that has the least elevation gain overall is good. Even if it's a super short loop, like a 14K loop.

it doesn't matter. You just do it a bunch of times. Or you can climb the Alp Dzwift, which is a consistent uphill, and you'll always have tension no matter which part of the climb you're on. So you could do six by four minutes up that and always be kind of under similar load. I feel like there's, is it like Fuego Flats or something like that that's in the Zwift world? That's like maybe an eight-mile loop to each do over and over again. Sometimes I'll do like the volcano loop, which is like very gradual up and very gradual down.

Yeah. short loops and then maybe McCurry Islands, there's like a shorter inner city loop on that. A lot of the loops that they've actually built out intending to be running loops, so they're shorter, are flatter. So there's lots of options on there. But I don't think you're over-complicating things by recording on your computer and on Zwift. I think that is super normal and actually good. Yeah.

I have a question from a non-zwifter. If you were to add up all the road that you can bike on, How many miles do you think it is? Oh, my gosh. So many. Because I don't know. It's like it doesn't seem like there's that many different worlds. Maybe a couple hundred just in Watopia.

Wow. Don't you think? Yeah. Wow, that's incredible. And that's just one world. So it is, it's not just the same loop over like. No, you can truly go and explore it. You don't even have to be on a loop if you don't want to.

If you know the map well enough, you'd be like, I'm going to start and I know how to get to the volcano. Or I know how to get to the big mountain climb. And I'm just going to make all the right turns to get there. That's kind of cool. Yeah, yeah. Just like the first video game I remember doing that was Need for Speed Carbon or something. And you could actually drive around the world to go find races to do. And it just, it was like very, very cool to explore on your own time.

Wow. Or like Grand Theft Auto, I think. Yeah, that was that for me. Yeah. That feeling of freedom. Yeah. That's cool. Cool.

Well, thank you so much for that question, Mary Kane. That is, we're very honored that you listen to the podcast. We're going to do our best here. Okay. next question is high TTL, just qualified for 70.3 worlds. Very jealous. In October this year in St. George, the course I qualified at was Staffordshire or Staffordshire. One of those two in England, and the run course was mega hilly. I was wearing the Nike alpha flies and had really bad calf pain running up the hill the first time. Then never went away after the first five kilometers.

How much do you reckon this is down to the shoes making you run on your toes, already to then running uphill with them too. I know you guys have raised in St. George a lot, and it's obviously hilly on the world's course. So do you reckon the vaporflies would be a better option, question mark? Thanks and keep it all up. You guys are a huge motivation for me. So I called my friend, David, who is, we used to work at a running shop and is obsessed with running shoes and is an ultra runner. And I asked him what he thought about this question. And he said that, yes, the vaporflies are a little bit lighter, but I can't imagine that would make that much of a difference. What do you guys think? They're both like super carbony, super race day shoes.

Yeah. I mean, if we're talking just about some calf pain, then I think that might come down to like what Paula experienced with like the relative stability of them. Or just the high drop of them. I've found, I've had better luck with, I love Nike. I wear them to train in. I wear them on my life. I've had better luck with my ankle pain wearing the A6 MetaSpeed or Sky or whatever it's called. Because I just find them more stable. And like Eric said, the Nike sometimes it's not a difference necessarily between vaporfly and Alpha Fly. It's just they're both pretty unstable shoes with a high drop. And I still think they're the fastest shoes.

So if your body can biomechanically handle them, they are the best. But the A6 are, I've found work better for a wider range of people. to prevent injuries and just be fast. And that's not the only one. Eric, where's the A6, you wear the Sokney. There's other super shoes out there too. I'll say, in addition to this, is complaining about calf pain

and saying that the shoes make you run on your toes already, usually people complain about the opposite. The less drop there is, the more your calf has to work. That's true. That's true. So I don't think it has to do with that. But everybody's so different. and there's a lot of complicated things. And what we'll do here is we'll say,

talk to a physiologist or a sports scientist about this, since we are not sports scientists. I remember when I used to race on the track wearing spikes that have, they're basically like socks. I would always get really, really sore calves because you are forced onto your toes a lot. Yeah. But I haven't really had calf pain necessarily.

Another thing I might suggest is to do calf-specific workout in the gym a little bit, like do calf races and just strengthen outside. of running specifically so that you're a little more durable and resilient when you do go wear those shoes. And another thing I'd say is just to train them a little bit too. Don't just wear them on race day. I know they're expensive and you definitely don't want to overuse them because they wear out quickly. But using them for three or four workouts before your race is actually probably really smart just to get used to them. I think that's great advice. Would you say what kind of workouts should people be wearing those shoes for? More of the slower stuff?

or the fast stuff or like two weeks every workout leading like an actual workout yeah like a tempo run or a race pace yeah a lot of the time we'll use not a track workout like ideally something it's like at the race pace you'll be running I think yeah a lot of the time we'll use them for our last like run off the bike that's hard so it's only 20 minutes or so but it's replicating the demands of a race after a hard ride and might also then replicate best what your stride is like coming off the bike and getting used to that form, basically. I think the bigger issue is the stability. What did you say about the hills?

Basically, that's more calf activation. Yeah, which obviously it is. I had issues with my calves last year, and I didn't know what was happening. And the only thing that fixed it for me, it seems totally random, was after every run in the shower, I would stretch out my calves.

I didn't realize it was also causing me some tendinitis in my ankles, and that totally fixed that. I mean, that doesn't sound random for me. Stretching should help tighten me. I know. I just, for whatever reason, I don't believe that stretching really does as much. As people say. Stay in your line next.

Yeah. I'm sorry. No, ideally, yeah, you would foam roll, do some, like, active release on your calves versus actually stretching them. There's science that says tight calves or fast calves, so. To a certain extent. To a certain extent. That's what I'm pain. That's why I'm saying, I think doing ART is better than calf stretching, because that can also, like,

attend in and fire it up a little bit. So, yeah. Cool. Cool. Well, next question here. I really like this question, and I'm very curious what you both think about this, because it's something I think about all the time when I have races that are kind of close together.

Hi, guys. How do you typically structure training in between races? I'm assuming most folks build in a recovery period after a race and a taper before their next race, but how do you utilize the remaining time between races? This is the first year I'll do more than one race, so I've never encountered this situation before. I'm unsure if I should build into my next race, or just try to stay healthy and maintain fitness. All my races this year will be sprint distance races with about a month in between each race.

For context, I'm an average age rooper, typical finish in the top 25%, and typically finish in the top 25%, and train about 6 to 8 hours a week. I understand the answer to this question can greatly vary depending on the person, the race distance, the time between races, etc. However, any general guidance you can share on the subject is greatly appreciated. Thanks for all that you do, Chris. Well, he does acknowledge that it's different for every distance, and I would say that's the most important thing. He's focusing on sprint distances, which I think the recovery time might be a little bit less because the overall load is just lower.

And I don't think that a month is short enough time where you could just coast the fitness through from your last race. I think you need to go back to it three or four days after your race and definitely resume a training schedule for the months in between. Yeah, I, like at least my rule of thumb when I finish your race is I take the time that it feels necessary. Like when I start feeling like I really want to train again, that's when I hit my coach up for a schedule. And that can be like the Thursday after a race. Sometimes it'll go all the way to the following Monday if it's after a 70.3 and I'm really tired. But you definitely want to get back into it, do some hard training, and then do another taper. Yeah, probably, you know, seven days, 10 days out depending on.

From your next race. Yeah. Yeah. But a sprint shouldn't take so much out of you that you need just like Ironman style like three weeks of nothing before you can start having fun and getting out doing things again. Especially if you're finishing in the top 25% that means you're pretty fit. And that depends. Therefore, I think it's not like a three hour sprint or something. I think sprint distances can sometimes make you more sore because you're running way faster.

So depending on that, I think if you're not used to running like whatever per mile you are for a. 5K, it's much different than a half Ironman. But the overall fatigue I find for a sprint, it's like maybe an hour, an hour and a half. And the amount you're training every week is six or eight hours, that's eight times more. So it shouldn't really feel like this huge load that drains you for weeks on end. And another thing I would say is if you are sore, get back into swimming the first and then cycling and running last. It's okay if you're especially sore after a sprint to maybe wait a week and a half to run again or a week to run to avoid injury. But there's absolutely no danger in getting into the pool the day after the race.

I've heard that's good to do. I agree. I think that can expediate the recovery sometimes instead of just taking total time off. We try to do an activity right away the day after. Well, thank you for that question. Chris. Hopefully that was helpful. Next question.

Hi, Paula, Eric, Nick, and Flynn. My name is Sierra, and I'm currently on the club triathlon team at Cal Poly and San Luis Obisbo. Fun fact, my friend Katie Rollins, she went to San Luis Obisbo and was on the tri team there, and she kind of got me into triathlon a little bit. Wow. I started training for triathlon about a year ago, quickly got into your YouTube, and have been inspired by T.T.L. Nash, spelled NAT dollar signage, to do great things. I come from a swimming and water polo background and was fairly successful.

in my first collegiate season, but want to take it to the next level and think having an actual coach would be the way to do it. My question for you is how can I find the best coach to fit my needs? I want to be competitive next season, so I want something on the more serious side, but I'm also a broke college student who can't afford anything crazy. Thank you for your help. P.S. Are you still racing 70.3, Oregon? I will be there and would love to meet the Paula Finley in person. Thanks, Sierra. So it sounds like the... That is a tough one.

I do think to a degree you get what you pay for with coaching. In terms of, like, engagement, if you want to be texting that coach, telling them how that workout went, maybe having them modify the next workout, that's a pretty involved service in a coach is going to start, you're going to start getting like the $300 a month territory versus if they just send you a schedule once a month

or once every couple weeks or whatever. You can get away with that for $100, $150, I think, last I checked. But it is a bit of a process of finding someone. You want to ask that person maybe what other athletes they've coach, what level those athletes have gotten to, what their style is, and kind of find the person that matches the results that you want to get

and the personality, the way that you like to train to a degree. And to answer the question about where to find one? Yeah, that's tough. I mean, I would start asking people, especially if you see somebody, like the way I picked out, 10 years ago now, was I saw three different athletes that I really respected on the ITU scene

that had this awesome trajectory over the course of like the two years that I'd started racing ITU. It turned out they had the same coach, got in contact with that guy. This guy is taking athletes who haven't historically run super well. They're taking a minute, a minute and a half off their 10K times and performing really well in ITU. I need that for me. Well, if I can give my non-professional, non-coach opinion here,

There's also, TrainingPeaks has a marketplace for coaches. If you really are lost in finding someone that you don't know, you know, if you don't want to go through the work of picking out athletes that you like and hunting down who their coaches. I think on Training Peaks, there's like many, many, many certified coaches that you can email, see their rates, see if they're a good fit. I actually haven't gone through it, but I do remember that. Paul, do you have any advice on that?

Finding a coach. Yeah. I'll coach you. I think one thing you got to start asking around. It would be fantastic if there was somebody who could, you know, once every couple weeks come to one of your workouts and like see you swim or see you run. And if geographically it works out, that would be ultimate. Yeah, but failing that, Paula said she would coach you in a verbal contract is binding in Oregon.

So there you go. We are maybe. We are definite maybe is on the 70.3 Oregon, by the way. It kind of depends on how we're feeling as we're building. into the Canadian PTO race. Also, I read a thing that the swim might actually be canceled. Okay, now I'm doing it for sure. Because the water flow rate is just like dangerously high and they've taken out all the

do all the docks because it's so high. Oh my gosh. I can do like a 10-minute swim portion. Or that it'll be canceled. I think part of the concern is you go downstream and you have to turn left into the shore and you just can't even do it because it's moving so fast. Wow. Wow.

That's my race. Sounds like a stellar location. Okay. Next question. Thank you, by the way, Sierra. Hopefully that helped. Next question. Paula, Eric, Nick, and T-T-L-N-H, spelled N-A-Y, dollar-sign, dollar-sign, loving it. By the way, Eric hates every second. I love every second, so keep it coming. I donate it. I just can't separate it from The Bachelor.

Right, right. I am Tony from Minnesota. I very much enjoy the podcast and the YouTube channel. I'll skip right to the questions here. I have a few questions for all of you. One, I'm curious about workout paces. I hear you mention Olympic pace or 70.3 pace. What are those actual numbers for pros like Eric and Paula, but also for Nick as an age grouper? Mostly curious about bike watts and runtimes.

I just try to survive the swim, I guess. Understanding that everyone is different, what are good numbers for an average age grouper doing this for fun mid-30s? I was actually, this is a three-part question. I was going to delete the first one because I don't really like this question. Just because it's so different for everyone and watts are so individual. based on your weight, and that's a touchy subject. And if you want to see Eric and I are wants and our run paces, you can follow us on Strava.

We're actually pretty open on Strava with all of our training data. So that is a good spot to go. But in terms of what's a good number to aim for, like paces to do in your mid-30s, I don't know. That's really tough. For a pro? No, for him. For him?

Oh, wow. I feel like I can answer that question. Okay, do it, do it. For you guys, 300 plus watts is like some of these people never even hit these in training ever. But I think for my age group, which I am in my 30s, it seems like to be middle of the pack for a 70.3, you're probably holding like 190 watts for a male. Right? To be the middle of the pack. Yeah.

Like I'll... If you're what, 150 pounds? No. Okay. So at my weight, when I held 235, I was like top 15%. Okay. Okay. So I figure a few watts less than that would put you a middle of the pack.

Okay, maybe, yeah. Yeah. And then for running, I would say that pace is about like middle of the pack would be like 8.45 minute mile. Because when I did 8.30 minute miles, I was in the top 20%. I know this seems crazy for you guys, but this is the reality for age group of 30s. This is just so challenging because your arrow position and your weight and so many things come into play with. like, that's why Paula and I are like relatively open with our power outputs on Strava, because it's like Paula doing 280 watts up a hill in riding arrow could be the equivalent

to Lindsay Corbyn doing 260 watts up the same hill riding side by side. And just because of their arrow position, you know, you just. Well, it was like yesterday when we rode together and I was riding your old mountain bike. Right. You could see my watts on your computer because it was still connected. And you're like having a conversation and I'm doing 320 watts up this hill. Yeah. Yeah.

That's so different. But I would say that's like where it's useful to maybe have a coach or do the FTP test on Zwift. So you're just improving relative to your own best instead of trying to aim for what a middle, middle of the pack age groupers is doing. The way I've seen it done for age groupers is you take your FTP and you take a percentage of it for an Olympic distance race and a percentage of it for your 70.3. There's there's tools online that'll spit out numbers. Yeah. So I would Google that. Yeah.

The second part is, I noticed in a vlog that one of you exited T2 carrying your Wahoo rival and also noticed Eric still carrying it at the end of a different race. I have seen other athletes do that as well. Why not wear the watch for the entire race? Good question. Lazziness. Yeah, pretty much. Typically, we'll put that on while running out of transition or in the first kilometer.

But the race that you're referring to is Chattanooga, and I came out of T2 with like 10 other guys. and it was just maximum effort and focus on just trying to run well and get to the front of that. So the act of like strapping it on and like getting it through the little gummy enclosures and the whole thing was just mentally too much to handle and it was easier to just carry it. Yeah. I don't know. I just carried mine in Oceanside and I kind of liked having something in each hand because I had my gels in one hand and my watch in the other. I kind of liked it.

So I just did that in Chattanooga too. It's probably not the best because I think that as Wahoo athletes we should be showing the watch on our watch. wrist. And I definitely look at it a lot, even when I'm holding it. I'll probably put it on next time. It's funny. You guys are, you're so in your world that you're totally missing what this guy is asking. He's asking, why aren't you wearing it on the swim?

And you just have it on the whole time. He asked about the swim? No, he said the entire race. Because most of all age groupers, we wear our watch the whole time. You guys are so in this world of like, of course I'm not going to wear it on the swim. Cannot swim with a watch. Yeah, we don't like swimming with a watch. And also on the bike, we have our bike computers, so there's no real need to have.

have to have a watch on. And I do think it's like when I'm in aero position, it gets in the way a little bit of like computer. And it's not arrow. It's not hydrodynamic in the swim. Like your wetsuit can get hung up on it. There it's just. Yeah, but the data, bro.

The data. I fully understand people wearing them for the whole race because the Wahoo element actually in a rival. Rival. The Wahu rival actually has a triathlon mode where it'll recognize when you get out of the swim. It'll time your transition. You don't have to like you don't have to lap it. It'll just figure it.

figure it out, which is super, super cool. So we just don't train with it in the pool or on the bike. Yeah. And for us, our races really are not so much about, like, we need to go back and see how fast we swam and, or like, we're trying to hit a certain pace or something on the bike. Like, we're just having to race the race. And the most important numbers that we get out of that are just, like, our overall, like,

splits on the run, which is where we carry the watch and then our power on the bike. That's what will dictate our training moving forward. And then third question. I have always had some sort of sport watch for my workouts, but can't seem to spend the money on a bike computer or power meter. Are those components beneficial to the point that I should make the investment? Yes. I don't know about the bike computer because you could,

you can strap, there's tools that you can strap your watch to your bars and just have power on there. Yeah. But I think power meter is an indispensable tool. Yeah. Yeah, if you, like, if you have the Wahoo watch, you can read your power on it if you have a power meter.

It's hard on your wrist. hard to keep it on your wrist because I've tried this before and you're like constantly looking at your watch. Put it on the inside. But you can just literally strap it to the bars with a Yeah. Yeah. So maybe the bike computer is less critical, but the power meter, very helpful. By computer, though, I still find it's very nice to have like for you guys. Yeah. It's hard for me to like I would never not use one, but we are riding our bike every day. Right. If money is an object, if money is an object, just use your watch. If money is no object, get the bike computer. Yeah. Way, way more better. Yeah. And I think you could probably find like

used one. 100%. The bi-computer does not have to be that nice. All you need is like five second, ten second, lap power. That's like, and lap time. It's like nothing. And a lot of pedals these days have power meters built into them. So there's so many different options of power meters systems these days.

You don't have to spend two grand on one. It's fairly accessible. We saw somebody who had Garmin ones for like 750 bucks. Oh, they can get much cheaper than that. Don't get those. Don't get those. I'll just given the example that you don't have to spend. three grand like he used to. Not at all.

Not at all. Don't the Wahoo's speed plays have power in them? Yeah. Yeah. Get those ones. Closing thoughts. Nick, good luck on your upcoming Iron Man. Being from Minnesota, I've heard many great things about Madison. Super excited for this summer's gear drop. I am impatiently waiting. Thank you for that question. Tony, Tony Kramer.

Next question. Hi, all. My question is about Eric and Paula's garage setup. I'm sure you could do a full episode about the garage, but I'm specifically curious about the left side. of the garage looking into it. I'm moving and we'll finally have a garage and I'm curious what bike rack setup you like for all your different types of bikes as well as the bike mechanic station and toolbox essentials.

Thanks and looking forward to hearing what you have to say about this. Erica from Oklahoma City. We have done an episode on our whole garage setup. We actually did two episodes. I think they're called Dream Garage Part 1 and 2. So you can go check those out on our YouTube channel. But just to like quickly answer the question, the bike hanging situation that we have

is actually by Rubber Made and it's just a rubber made track system. So you could put a mop or a broom mount on there. You could put a hose holder, but we could just fill it completely full of bike hooks and that allows us to space the bikes out however we want them to be. And they just hang by the tire. And we go one facing up, one facing down, one facing up for the best space saving. The whole workbench situation, that is like a dream come true for me. There's probably more workbench space there than I need. But I have kind of a mix of like house tools and bike tools in there. So I would say like the most important bike tools that you want to have is like a really good set of Allen keys.

There are some on eBay on eBay on Amazon that I got that are called Bondus that I just think are good well machined. So you're not going to strip any bolts. And then maybe like a good set of three way Allen keys. a torx style set. The shop kind of starter pack that I have, I think, is made... Who makes that? I don't know. Park tool, I'm sure, makes like a really good basic home mechanic set,

and that'll probably get you started. And then as you realize additional things you want to do, you can just kind of slowly add to the collection over time. Great. Thank you, Eric. Next question, last question. This is from Tyler. Hi, TTR team. My question is primarily for Eric,

and it's regarding doing my first Xtera event. I just came off an Olympic, which was my B race for the year, and I have eight weeks before the Xtera, Indiana. It's on the shorter side with a 700-meter swim, 17-mile primarily flat mountain bike and 7K run. I've done road triathlon for four years, but have done mountain bike on the side and even a few cycle cross races during the off-season for fun. I would say that my mountain bike skills with Z are still on the weaker side, and I didn't know if there was anything that you would suggest doing to prepare for the off-road components of the race. currently doing almost all my sessions outside and split between single track and gravel for both the run and the bike. And one more quirk question. I don't have a power meter on my mountain bike.

It's higher and hard tail. And didn't think it would be super helpful given the varying terrain. How did you pace the effort for your exteros given that pace slash watts were so different compared to the road? We'd love to hear more about your exterior experience, Tyler. Sweet. Tyler, I think you are very, very well prepared. The exterras that I have done really are not that technical. The one exception might be the one in Alabama,

which would have just happened. It got canceled this year. That was a little bit more technical. But the other ones that I've done, not that big of a deal on if you're riding single track right now in training, I think it'll be totally fine. I'd even say that if it was allowed, you could do most of the exterior courses on a gravel bike.

They do a good job. But it's not allowed. Right, it's not allowed. But it would be possible in terms of technicality. in my opinion. The mountain bike power meter for me, I didn't have one last year. I got one this year.

It's entertainment value as much as anything. If you want to take your mountain bike out and do hill repeats on it, I would recommend doing hill repeats actually on the road. I think that's the best way to just get super strong. But as far as pacing during the race, there's few and far between situations where I think you're on like a climb

that's steady and long enough to where you can look at that and really make sure that you're using it as like a speed limit. So my first several races, I definitely just went based off of effort and tried to go with the race and people around me. And I think your body has like a bit of an idea where the red line is you shouldn't go over as you're like cresting a hill or something. Would you say that most people misunderstand that power meters are great for racing when in reality they're a better tool for training and then they're just, they can be helpful in racing? Yeah, yeah, for sure. with the exception being of like 70.3 or Ironman,

where it truly is just you versus the clock for so long time trial mode. Certainly ITU racing, Xtera racing, cycle cross racing, it's a lot of like, you know, you can collect that data and look at it later and go, wow, I didn't realize that that's how much power it took and I still got dropped and I should make sure that I do some higher surge, like shorter efforts in training. But yeah, it's more of a look at it later than this is going to guide what I do in the race. Especially on an XTERA. And when I'm thinking of advice for Tyler,

and he's worried about being fast, and he's saying, I didn't get a power meter because of the varying terrain of the race. It's like you get the power meter so that you can be as fit as possible when you get to the varying terrain of the race. Yeah, so if you have a road bike with a power meter on it, and you can just do really like steeper hill repeats

on the road bike in training and use that as your stimulus with a power meter, that's what I would do. Cool. Well, those are all the questions we had for this week. we're really hoping that we'll have a podcast for you guys next week, but it has been, we have had like no free time. Since I've been here, we have been shooting or exercising or exercising and shooting every second of the day pretty much. And we're compromising food, we're compromising sleep, our mental health is slipping.

But we're going to try to see if we can potentially record one more or record one when you guys are going to be in Canada. Yeah. Yeah, I think we'll make it happen. We'll be coming to you from, well, Paula will at least be in Canada. I might be on the way to Canada. Nick will be back in California. We'll make it happen because Paula's got a big, exciting thing

with the Canadian time trial national championships next weekend. It would be fun to chat a little bit about that before she does it. Yes. All right. Thanks, guys. Thanks for listening, and we'll talk to you soon. See you later. Ciao.