That Triathlon Life Podcast - Paula wins Canadian time trial national championships 2 years in a row, speed suit vs tri suit, weighted vests, and more!

Episode Date: June 29, 2023

This week we start off by talking a little about Paula's race, and her thought process throughout. Then we move onto your questions! Questions about hydration bladders in an Xterra, goggle fit, and more! To submit your own question, as well as become a podcast supporter, head over to http://www.thattriathlonlife.com

Hey everyone, welcome to That Triathlon Live podcast. I'm Eric Loggersome. I'm Paula Findlay. I'm Nick Goldston. And we are, well, Paula and I are coming to you from Canmore, Alberta right now. We're both professional triathletes. We're up here because her family has a house here. It's beautiful. And we're talking to our good friend, Nick, still in Illinois, just hanging out down there. Does it smell like maple syrup and kindness up there? It's very clear, which is not always the case. They do get some pretty bad forest fire smoke. But this year, we've been really really. lucky. We actually got rained on the last two days.

Well, what is the altitude there? Well, it is super interesting that you asked that, Nick, because what is the altitude here in town? It's maybe like 1,500 here, but we just drove up to, our coach wants us to do like an altitude protocol where we do

a really secret, specific sprint, short rest sprint set at over 2,000 meters, which there's actually a pass in the highest paved mountain pass in Canada is only an hour from us. So we drove up there, there's a parking lot at the top,

we set up the trainer outside the storyteller and did this crazy hard sprint set with like no oxygen. So you can get up to $2,200 in a car. Which is 7,200 feet. I just looked it up in cameras at 4,300 feet. So just a little below like Boulder. Yeah, a little above bend.

So we feel it a little bit, but we really felt it at this workout today. it was extremely uncomfortable. Wow. And what can you explain? Sorry, you might have just explained it in great detail, but I was looking up what the altitude is there. What's the point of doing those sprinty, sprinty efforts at altitude at like really high altitude?

I don't know. We don't want to get into it because it's a secret protocol. Yeah, you got it. There's some good science out there that suggests that doing some sprint type efforts at altitude gives a similar benefit to just like sleeping high. We're trying to get faster, man. every day. We're doing all the things. I mean, it's also just interesting to add a different stimulus versus just doing

70.3 pace every day, every night. Totally. Right. Even for your mind alone, it's nice to switch it up a bit. Exactly, yeah. Okay, so elephant in the room, Paula, last year, you race Canadian time trial, championships, and you won, and you took everyone by

surprise. But this year, there was no surprise. People knew that you were going. You were the number one seed, and you backed it up. You again. Decidedly so. I would still say that she was not necessarily the favorite because Allison Jackson came back this year. She wasn't there the last year when Paula did it. And for those who don't know, Allison Jackson just won Perry Rubet.

Yeah, there was definitely a very much stronger field this year, which made me more unsure, but also took the pressure off a little bit because if I get beat by like World Tour riders, that should happen. you know so it was like yeah I wanted to win again but also there was like respectable competition so and was the course different or was it the same and I know the conditions were different yeah slightly different course slightly hotter last year was raining um not super technical but hilly and 30 kilometers total so I did it in like 38 minutes so 45k an hour ish I accidentally made a stupid mistake and I warmed up in like trainer mode like indoor mode

where it doesn't connect to GPS. And then when I started the race, I forgot to switch it to outdoor mode. So I didn't have any, like, speed or distance on it. I just had power, which turned out being fine, but it would have just been nice to know how much I had left. That's funny. That's what I wanted to ask you, actually. I wanted to ask you if your bike computer would have been any different. I guess now I know that it was very different.

But did you want to set it up differently than like a 70.3? or would you have had all the same data on there? It was the same screen as I do for 70.3. I have like total time, lap time, because sometimes I'll lap it at the turnarounds, power, three second power, lap power, cadence. I have a lot of data on there and I really only look at lap power and lap time

just because that's kind of the most relevant. And sometimes if you're hurting a lot, it kind of is nice to lap it and start fresh with a new lap. With the watts and everything. But I don't know, it was a super hard race. I was really uncomfortable, which is how it should be. Of course, of course. And wasn't really riding the Watts that I, like, expected myself to.

So I was kind of disappointed in that along the way. Had no idea what the splits were if I was ahead or behind or whatever because I didn't have a follow car or a radio. I was just kind of riding hard, did not think I would win based on the Watts I was doing, similar to last year, but I thought I'd have to do more Watts this year to win. but yeah I think my position's a little slightly better this year I have a little bit better equipment I had like shoe covers like stuff like that so I don't know it makes a difference we leveled up to the most basic of arrow equipment I mean basic but also I'd been working on my

position and stuff yeah I just feel like last year it was like oh let's go do this it was a little bit of a last second thing we didn't have time to get like the shoe covers from kistelli and we got a skin suit, but we're just like, I feel like dialed in a couple extra things this year. Yeah. Practiced U-turns. Yeah. So there was two questions I had. One of them was specifically about the U-turns.

Like, do you feel like the practice you guys did with the turning and the stuff that you guys did like the week before? Do you feel like that actually paid off? Did you feel more confident? Did you feel less stressed? Yeah, I was never stressed about the U-turns. And I wouldn't have been if we didn't practice, but it was just, yeah, a little more comfort and just having more speed riding.

into it and using the brakes more versus coasting into it. But honestly, like, there were only two U-turns, and at those points, I just wanted a little bit of a rest. Yeah. Even if it's only 10 seconds, so I was like not worried about it. How different did the effort feel compared to a 70.3 bike effort? Because obviously, like, mentally in a 70.3, first of all, you came out of the swim, and you still know you have a run. And there's something that hurts mentally, even if you're not pushing as hard on the bike to know I still have to run a half marathon. Were you in like a, was this a darker mental space?

Did you feel like it was easier to push because it was shorter? It's way harder. It feels like you want to stop. And it's also like in a 70.3, I feel like my breathing is usually under control. And it's like a muscular fatigue that builds up. Whereas this, I'm fully like breathing hard in the first 30 seconds until the end. So it's about 60 watts higher than my 70.3 watts. Oh, a lot.

Yeah. And it's like a 38 and a half minute race. So it's not like a sprint. You know, it's still a really long time to be at that intensity. And the hardest thing for me is, as it is in triathlon, riding high watts on downhills. And this course had a lot of kind of rollers. And because when you're going on a downhill, you're going so fast. It's hard to force yourself to keep pushing hard.

But yeah, I did. It was just, it's really mentally challenging. And then also just feeling a bit alone out there. I think it would have preferred to have Eric there with the radio just to have a bit of feedback on splits because the advantage of going last is I could have had some feedback on how fast everyone else was riding.

Eric and I were FaceTiming. We knew your splits. We were telling each other. Well, I was texting your mom, and I said, does she know where she's at? Can you tell her? And she said, I think she knows her. There was only one spot to see my mom.

But it was fine. It wouldn't have changed how I wrote. It would just been distracting. I mean, in a good way. Well, you told me that when you saw your mom, you in your mind thought, well, there's no way I'm going to win this thing. And then she told you you were ahead. And that's when you were like, oh, wait a second.

Okay. Okay. Here we go. Back to focus. But I also like, how much can you trust the splits in your mom? And there's so much going on. So I don't know. Yeah, it was nice for her to tell me that.

It was nice for her to tell me that. And it did give me a bit of a boost. But it didn't make me ease up or anything. Yeah. We've talked about this before with like splits in a 70.3 before. You can't really trust any one split. But if you get three that I'll indicate that you're over a minute, then maybe you're over a minute. Maybe.

Right. Yeah. But I don't want to go too much longer on this. I'm super happy to win again. I didn't do the road race. I considered it. But same as last year, I just don't really have practice riding in a pack. And I don't think it would have done anything to, like, strengthen my campaign for making world's teams and stuff.

So just did the T.T. And met Eric and Canmore. And he drove the van up from Oregon. There was a bit of a delay in it. which is why he didn't make it to the TT. So I just saw the man basically for the first time a couple days ago. And isn't it the most glorious thing? Yeah, it's so glorious.

We took it out today for a big adventure day and it was very fun. And how does it compare to the one that you guys had borrowed that you drove down here? What we drove down to California for Indian Wells was a 2020, I believe, four-wheel drive sprinter. and this is the new I'm a kid confused with model years, but it's 2023 or 2024, all-wheel drive. First year that they've done

all-wheel drive in a sprinter, and it's night and day over the four-wheel drive, to be honest. Wow. Yeah, it feels like you're driving a... Like a minivan. It's beautiful inside, and then it's so easy to turn the wheel.

The power steering is super incredible. It has like two more speeds in the transmission. They went from like a seven to a nine. and so it accelerates really smoothly. It has less of that, like, diesel turbo lag. It's crazy quiet. It's like driving a luxury.

It's like driving Mercedes. It's not like driving a... You drive our old van, and that was like, oh, I'm definitely in a cargo van. Kachukkong, kutong, kajong, every time you'd hit a bump, and this is buttery and dreamy. Yeah, amazing. I can't wait to see it. But, Nick, you also race this weekend, right? I did.

I did. It was a sprint, and it's the first race I ever did in 2017. and this was exactly six years later. Wow. Exactly six years later. And it was very fun. Yeah, much faster. Much faster since the first one.

The first one I averaged, I was a pretty good cyclist, but I was so slow in the swim. And my run pace was like 735 per mile. And on Sunday, I ran 633 per mile, and I did not feel necessarily great. Actually, I have a question for you guys about this. The race went great and I loved it. Love that course. Everything was great. But when I started running, I had this feeling that my breath, almost like I was at altitude

or something, where my legs felt fine. I didn't feel like I was running that fast, but I couldn't like catch my breath. I constantly felt like I was behind my breath. And in my mind, I'm like, oh, yeah, that's because I haven't been training a lot. That's like a lack of fitness. Or is that not right? Is that always going to happen if you're running a sprint? And that's called going hard.

Yeah. Nick, I think you're used to keeping it in like controlled zone for 70.3. The thing is, like, my legs didn't feel any fatigue at all. Like, it didn't feel difficult muscularly at all. It just felt like an aerobic, lacking aerobically. Yeah, that's what you'd expect in a sprint I'd say. Because, like, you train so much that, like, a 15 or 20-minute run is not going to muscularly feel hard at first. Yeah, I guess.

Yeah, you probably don't have quite like this. the, I don't know what to say, like the muscular, like, speed or whatever, like the leg turned over to like, tire out the legs. To, like, tire out the legs. So, yeah, the aerobic system is going to be the first thing that's going to go if you're trying to push. And you probably biked harder too, which would possibly be. Yeah, but on the bike, it, like, it made sense. I was like, yeah, my legs are burning and I'm breathing hard and I'm working hard, but it's all, like, kind of working together.

I was when I got on the run, I'm like looking down at my feet, I'm like, I'm not even running that fast. It's like, why is this so hard? It kind of felt like a strange feeling And to me my brain was like, yes, because you haven't really trained since the 70.3. But maybe it is just the nature of like pushing hard in a sprint. Like yeah, you get to that run and it's you never really catch it. It's always just getting harder and harder.

Yeah. Yeah, maybe. No, I love sprints though. I think I really have so much more fun doing this short stuff. It's like, I don't exactly know why, but it just feels fun and like a mentally manageable distance. You can make it to. To brunch by 10.

Yeah, that's right. And I did. Have a nap all afternoon and then still go out to a good dinner. That is the dream. That's what we did. I finished, unfortunately, just off the overall podium. I was fourth overall, but I did win my age group, which was great. And then I went out to pizza with the guy who got third in the Olympic and first in the sprint.

And we had a great time and we just hung out and talked about triathlon and hung out in San Diego. I freaking love San Diego, by the way. I know we've got this before. But it's such like a quintess. essential summer place. Yep. Yeah, and the triathlon community there is just so dialed to. Oh, yeah. Everyone is like all the tri-clubs. There's so much.

Because Southern California, I think San Diego is like the birthplace of triathlon. Vesta Island, baby. Yeah, Fiesta Island, exactly. Anyway, and I stayed with Kathy, of course, who is the mom of triathlon, it feels like. The kingpin. The centerpiece. The king pin.

Hold them all together. But yes, it was very fun. Had a great weekend. I just love racing short distances like that. None of the dread, all of the glory. Yeah. All right. Take note, everybody. Okay, so we do have a little segment here.

And we're going to do a little bit of this or that. This or that. And this one is from Jason. Jason wrote this for us here. And it's kind of fun. Jason West? It's not Jason West. He's too busy running fast.

Since the tour starts on Saturday, I made a little this or that. And they said, technically it's this, that, or the other one, since they all have three choices. Okay. Nice. This is an amended version. Okay, number one, who's winning? Tade, Vingegagard, or Remco? Like who is going to win?

Yeah. Who's going to have the overall G.C. Yellow Jersey win? Vangigard. Wow. Remko. I was going to say Tade. Okay. They're all different.

Taday! Okay, number two, which would you rather win, aside from financial winnings? Yellow jersey, green jersey, or Pokedat jersey. And for people who don't know, yellow jersey means you had the fastest overall time. Green jersey is the sprinters jersey and the sprinters jersey. The polka dot jersey is the climbers jersey. I know you guys know that, but... Obviously, the yellow.

I think I would go with the yellow. I think I'd go with the green. Because I think of like, I don't know. Like Mark Cavendish? Mark Cavendish and Peter Sagan kind of like sprinty. It's more the reason I got into cycling is the sprinty thing. Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, the glory of the yellow jersey, of course, can't be ignored.

Next one, what kind of rider would you be? On the front, setting the tempo, tucked into the pack, or off the front from the first K. I'd probably be on the front riding tempo. Just doing all the work, but then getting tired. Yeah, I mean, if I'm really realistic about, like, how good I am at sprinting or climbing, I think I'd just be, like, delivering people to the start of the climb.

Right. And here you go. I have no tactical ability in racing, so I would probably be off the front, a kilometer, and thinking everyone is going too slow. Yeah, I hope I can hold this for the rest of the race. Yeah, exactly. You know, ideally a few people come with you,

and then you can kind of work it. Yeah. It does happen sometimes. Worked for Allison. Mooney party. Yeah. Yeah. Best place to attack the group on the climbs, on the descents, or on the crosswinds.

I mean, where would I want to? Or where is the best? Well, I mean, let's be honest. Like, if I'm there, the only chance I have is on the descents, right? Yeah. Whereas if Paula's there, I imagine it's going to be the climbs or the crosswinds. Yeah. And for you?

I'd be like 50-50 on dissent. crosswind, but probably more towards the descent. Crosswind is just basically like, that's a TT effort, right? Because it's slowing you down, hardcore. You can't draft off the person in front of you, but weight isn't as much of a factor the way that climbs kind of separate people. So that's an interesting point. Yeah, and I do think I ride pretty well in like conditions where a lot of people shut down

and just think it sucks. Right. The mental kind of toughness as required for that. And then the final one here What's the most fun to win? A climbing stage, a sprint stage or a t-treeze? Sprint stage. There's just so much energy at the end of those sprints. Everyone's screaming.

Everyone's out of the saddle. Yeah, that's probably the most fun to win. I agree. The TTs are like anti-comactic because if... They are. If you're not last, you don't know that you've won. You're just sitting. You're just sitting and waiting.

There is this element of like, wow, they just did that all by themselves, though, and they're clearly the strongest person. You know, that is kind of cool. True. Yeah, no tactics necessarily. Yeah. Depends what you're into.

I do think like the epicness of the like climbing stages and like getting to the top of that mountain by yourself is like unavoidably awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I guess if you have the ability to do so. That's probably the most painful, I would say. Oh, it's painful. Well, I feel like the TT might be the most painful. I don't know.

At least they're short though. Yeah, relatively. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you. Those are great. Thanks, Jason. Yeah.

I'm excited for the tour. And have you guys been watching the Unchained, the Netflix show on the tour? We haven't. It's actually pretty funny. After Alcatraz, I watched the last episode at Jordan Blanco's house. And the same day,

Paula watched the first episode. And we have yet to sit down together. I just feel like they tried too hard to be F1. Right. Like, there's like, how many F1 drivers? 20. Yeah. There's like 150 or whatever,

Tour de France guys. Yeah. And I just felt like the team leaders of the cycling teams, are trying to be like Gunther, and I'm like, you're not Gunther. Don't try. There's one. There's only one.

Yeah. That's funny because I don't watch any TV really, but I feel like it's, I have to watch this. Like, because I get asked 10 times a day about it. Okay, well, Eric and I should watch it. I'm making my way through it. We just do. We just have not had time to do that in the last two weeks. There's not been a free millisecond.

I don't blame you. But we're getting there. Okay, well, thanks for that, Jason. That was fun. For the questions, we're not going to do a free bottle. this week because we actually ran out of bottles. And the only bottles that are left are the signature

pro edition models, Eric Lagerstrom and Paula Finley versions. By the way, I saw a Paula Finley bottle at the race this weekend. Really? Because Jennifer... Oh, Jen, yeah. She bought my bike.

She bought your bike, and she was wearing her TTL Nation kit, and she saw me in transition, and she just screamed. And I'd never met her, so I'm like, uh-oh. She's awesome. But she, uh, she's, she came over and she gave me a hug and she showed me her kid and she's like you're never going to believe whose bike I'm riding today and I'm like oh she's going to say someone I don't know

and she's like Paula Finley's bike I'm like wait a second what yeah and then she told me she bought it from you and I remember when she was coming over to get that bike yeah she is the best so nice and also wear my wetsuit one of my old wetsuit yeah she wore your wetsuit too but we only bottles we have left are those signature bottles and those are in bend so for a couple weeks while you guys are in Canada, we're going to put a hiatus on the supporter bottle, but we'll be back at it when we get back. Yep. So you can submit questions to this podcast at Thattriathlonlife.com slash podcast, and you can also become a supporter right there in that same place, and that's what helps keep this podcast ad-free. So first question from Sue, curious about the uniform rules of the Canadian Cycling Championships.

I noticed that both this year and last year, you wore the very plain Castelli Speed Zoo. rather than your custom designed kit of the year. Are there rules that prevent you from wearing your kit with all your sponsors on it? Sue. Oh, that was a good question. No, the Castelli speed suit I have with my sponsors is just like a very triathlon specific kit. It's not as tight, short sleeves. Although I don't know, a lot of TT riders do wear short sleeves,

but this Castelli suit that I wore is like this specific suit for TT in it. The legs are a little longer. It's faster. It has long sleeves. Theoretically, it's faster. It has a pocket in the back for the number, so that's all flush to your back. So it's just more designed for that. And yeah, I only do, I've only been doing one of these a year, so I didn't get a custom-made skin suit. But I think I could have worn the trisuit.

It would have been fine, but it's just not as fast for a TT-specific race. I mean, it's definitely good enough for a few seconds, and you could 100% get second by a few seconds. And so I feel like it's perfectly worth it to do it. Exactly, yeah. Yeah, the tri-suits are just definitely more comfortable because you have to run in them and you're in it for longer. So when I do it up this cycling kit, I'm like suffocating it so tight. I mean, it's actually comfortable in the TT position

because it has like less fabric on the front and more on the back for that hunched-over position. But if you're standing up with it, it just looks ridiculous. Yeah. This reminds me of something that happened to me on Monday. It was a day after I raced, and I still had my wetsuit and my trisuit in the back of my car because I was too lazy to take it out.

And I forgot my bathing suit. So I showed up and I was like, well, I guess I might as well try to swim in my trisuit and my wetsuit in the pool, something I've never done. And I'm not great at open water swimming, so I was like, oh, this could be cool to eliminate maybe what is not making me swim very fast. So I take my trisuit, put it on,

put the wetsuit, like super nerdy at the pool. I know you guys have done this before, but as an age roper, I highly recommend giving this a try because I'm trying to think of a good analogy for it, but to go from your speedo in the pool and then change everything in the ocean, it's interesting to keep some of those things

like just the wetsuit. And when I jumped into the water, it feels very odd because I'm so used to the sensation of my speedo in the water. And I was like 10 seconds per hundred faster with a wetsuit at the same effort. Like it really is so much faster. I did feel weird around my shoulders,

but man, how often do you guys try the wetsuit in the pool? We swim in the wetsuit every race week. So if it's going to be a wetsuit legal swim, we'll put it on for the warmup, plus a classic set that we do is 100 at start speed into 200 at mid-race speed. And so we'll keep it on for that, and then at the end of that 200,

we'll take it off as quick as we can. Oh, like a transition, kind of. Yeah, so you get the practice of just how it feels, and then you also get the practice of taking it off. Interesting. And do you feel like that's something, would you recommend that to an aid trooper? Yeah, 100% mostly to make sure that your wetsuit fits properly and to practice taking it off. I don't think it's like important to go 10 seconds per hundred faster, like for any particular reason.

But I think what Nick's saying is like the two activities are so segmented in his mind. It's like, okay, I ocean swim in my wetsuit and I pool swim in my speedo. But when you take the wetsuit and put it in the pool, you can, the difference is more obvious. I just don't see the point. That's what, it's really striking. You know, it's like changing tires on a bike or changing everything and the tires. You're never going to notice a difference in the tires if you're changing the whole bike as well. It's like one thing at a time.

It felt weird. I definitely was much more acutely aware of how tight the wetsuit is around my shoulders. Because in the pool, I'm so used to knowing what this feels like grabbing water. And the wetsuit I could feel is just like tires my shoulders out a little bit quicker. but you do go so much faster. Sounds like a new wet suits in order. It's a roca. I think so.

I don't think it's a great fit for me. But yeah, very interesting. I do recommend it if you're an age grouper to try it out, even though you look like a freaking nerd at the pool. It's kind of an interesting thing. And you, wow, you notice the buoyancy. Whoa. You're just like, oh, I don't even need a kick.

This is great. Okay, next question here is from Brian. I'm lucky enough that my work allows, me to train for triathlon while on the clock. I'm an ocean lifeguard which affords me plenty of time for swimming and running. And I work as a bike messenger, which obviously helps me log miles on the bike. Bike messenger is so cool. My question has to do with working as a messenger, which often had me carrying loads around 20 to 40 pounds. 40 pounds is seriously heavy on your back. That's like a heavy backpacking pack. Very heavy. So the question is, have you ever done any bike workouts that

consisted of adding weight to increase resistance. Are there any benefits or risks to doing training rides on a considerably heavier bike system than which you'd race on? I've seen people running with weight jackets and I'm basically just wondering if you ever do anything similar while riding. Thanks for all that you do. I've learned so much from you all and you make it more exciting to race every time I listen, Brian. First of all, those weight jackets, those weight vests for runners, they're like no, I don't know of any actual runner that does that. That's like, Nobody do that. Fitness people do that, right?

No, I did do a protocol with Paula once that involved putting on a weight vest and doing like some 10 second sprints. That's different. That's different. Going and running with a weight vest, what? Because like running is just so much easier for you than the rest of the population that you need to wear extra weight. Like I think that's, for the most part, is for people who are like training for the military or to be firefighters where they are going to have to run with a crazy amount of weight. or just try hard people who are like, no, I just want to, you know, whatever. I'm trying to give people the benefit of that here that they're a firefighter.

Yeah, it's like, I saw a guy at the beginning of the race this weekend who was using one of those breathing, like, things. Oh, no. Yes. Those are even worse. Oh, I was like, what are you doing, dude? But he was doing all kinds of funny stretches too. But, you know, whatever gets you excited to race. I'm way too tough for the amount of oxygen in this air.

But yeah, so, okay, so we agree that on the run, also seems like a great way to accelerate an injury to add weight to your body. But on the bike, what do you think about on the bike? But we've never done anything like this. The one thing that we do that is maybe a little bit similar is we do some low RPM work. And that's like a way to stimulate kind of like a weight lifting type of stimulus, but in a very specific position of being on the bike. But I'm really impressed with you carrying all that weight around,

but we don't do anything like that. that's the part that doesn't work with the bike is on the bike you can just change gears so it doesn't matter how much weight you have on you you can always just run a higher cadence unless he's a messenger and he's rocking the fixer and he's riding the fixie you're right I think that there's there's probably like a sensation

where if you're for example dragging a kid trailer or something up a hill or you're I don't know you had a steel frame bike and you buy a carbon fiber bike you're going to feel snappier and lighter and maybe that's psychologically will make you go faster in a race or in a training session, but I don't know if it's necessarily a training tool and something you should seek out. The one thing that this thought made me

think of was the Tucson bike path is so fast, so flat, so many people on it. So I've heard of people getting a tire that actually adds resistance so that you're going slower while pushing higher watts. So maybe at 200 watts you're going 15 miles an hour. I don't know, just for safety. Did Lionel do this? Lionel might have done it. I forget, but it's not a bad idea because if you want to ride decent watts on the Tucson bike path, you're going way too fast for safety. So I like that idea. Someone has, I don't know if you guys remember, a listener actually asked this question before. He's like, if I don't want to go as fast, but I want to work hard, can I just run like a crappier, bigger tire with less PSI? And we're like, yeah, I guess that's one way to do it. Like a gravel

It's more puncture resistant, and it's going to make you go slower. So as long as you don't race on it, that's good. But this reminds you of like, what are they called? Like drag shorts, like for swimming? Yeah, a drag suit. Yeah, like that's similar concept, right? But that's a little different because you're like, that means like your stroke, you have to like, there's like a longer pull.

Yeah, you're feeling the water more. Yeah, so it feels like it's not quite equivalent. Yeah. I mean, for this person, I think the training is doing as a, bike messenger is definitely applicable for triathlon and we'll make him a better rider. But it's not something that we do to get ourselves better at riding. But that's really cool. Good on you, man.

Yeah. That's an awesome life. Yeah, thanks, Brian. Next question here is from Seth from San Diego. My love affair with San Diego goes on here. I love the pod and YouTube channel. He wants to know about Xera. So why do pro Xera racers prefer hydrating with bottles mounted in their bike frames

instead of using a hydration vest or a camelback with bottles, it seems like you would need to be strategic about timing when you take a drink, or as with a camelback, you remove the variable from the equation. Is it a culture and style thing, or is there an advantage to using a frame-mounted bottle? I like that last part there. Is it just like, I'm sorry, it's just so uncool to have a camelback, so I'm not wearing it, or is there something about weighting your body up high like that? For me, the biggest thing is transition time. Taking the time to put on a camelback in transition, I do not have time for that.

You should swim with it under the wetsuit, dude. I want to get in and out of transition as quickly as possible and onto the bike. And most of the exterior courses that I've done are not so technical where there's no opportunity to take a drink. I have always had a good opportunity to take a drink. I also use the specialized sidewinder cages

that allow you to kind of pull the bottle out the side. Very quick and easy. I can do it without even looking down. The third thing, I think I got a lot of, four things here, four reasons. The third thing is like, at least in the pro field now, they have a table somewhere around the halfway point where you can leave one of your own bottles or somebody can leave a bottle for you or they'll just like have bottles on course and that gives you the opportunity to swap out a bottle. So that means you could run only a single bottle, only have to

carry that and then dump that and get your second bottle halfway through the bike. It's funny how on road triathlons, the reason you don't want a bottle is because it's slow and you don't want to get out of your like arrow position and you know you slow down like that and then xtera it's because it's so technical that you have to find a stretch of the trail or the course that you can actually physically reach down without falling over same problem but different reasons yeah and then the fourth thing is just that uh i mean the xtera courses take us an hour and 10 minutes that's not enough time to like necessitate a camelback uh yeah and i think it's probably got mostly to do with the transition of like trying to put on a camelback.

I could see someone that feels less confident on the bike maybe taking the hit of putting a camelback on in transition. Totally. Like if Paula was going to do it next era, I think that would definitely be the move. Yeah. Especially since she's so strong on the bike, she could just,

she's okay to take that time and not necessarily ride with everyone else. Yeah, yeah. For me, I feel like I need to get out of transition and hold on to that swim advantage as much as possible. Something we'll never have to worry about. Don't say never. Just remain a mystery of the universe. No, I can say never for this.

Okay. Okay, good. Unless it's like a fire road. I could do a fire road. Just one long fire road climb. Yeah. One long fire. That's what world is going to be.

Yeah, that's right. Okay, well, thanks for that question, Seth. Next question here is from Josephine. Hi, Al. Quick question for Paula about the vibe at the TT championships. You've talked lots before about how much camarical. there is between pro triathletes, even in races. What was it like of the cycling race?

Do you think you got treated differently, too, as someone not coming directly from cycling? Congrats from the UVIC tri-club. Josephine. Yeah, this is interesting. Because I'm really, I'm pretty friendly with all of the triathletes, and we all know each other really well because we race so much. So that's different.

I'm definitely, like, new to this scene, and people know kind of who I am, but not anything about me. and I'm not going to, there's definitely a feeling that it's not as friendly. But I don't know if that's because cycling is like that or because the nature of the TT is you're all lining up in this tent and you get your bike checked by the commissaire and you're one minute apart. It's a tense atmosphere.

And everyone's just like getting ready to go as hard as I can for 30 minutes. So you're not really chatting with everyone else. I mean, I tried to a little bit, but it wasn't like that well received. That's not like the place to start a new friendship. Yeah, totally. After the race, people were fairly friendly. And especially Allison, I had never actually met Allison in person. So when I saw her, I was like, oh my gosh, can I get a picture?

Like, I'm such a fan of her that I really wanted to talk to her. And she was very, very nice and friendly to me. So she ended up winning the road race the next day, which is awesome. And I'll always cheer for her from afar. But yeah, the vibe in the tent is. different. And also, it's like, you get your start time and, like, I don't know how early to show up. Like, Allison showed up for her TT start time, like, three minutes before her time. Right. Right. It's just like, oh, my gosh. She actually warming up till the very last minute,

so she can just go and be actually warmed up. Whereas I was kind of just sitting there for, like, 25 minutes, with my sock helmet on, looking like... Sweating. A newbie. Yeah, so maybe it was to my disadvantage. Like, there's stuff like that. I need to learn the timing and all that. but yeah, it's not, it's not, didn't feel as friendly, but I also don't know anyone. So I can't blame them. Okay, but I'm curious. I think this is kind of a cool opportunity to talk about the philosophy of this because it's something that comes up a lot.

So Eric, you've also done some bike races. Paula, you did some bike races in your past two. Have you found in general, it's tough because you're both pros, but do you find that in general, there is a difference in the overall vibe. in people between the sports. Not necessarily, and I think it depends what kind of cycling you're doing. Like a mountain bike race,

which is a criterion versus a TT versus a road. And just like how serious are you racing in the cat fives, the cat ones, like the more serious people are, the more serious it is, right? I would almost say that like amateur cyclists might be more chill than amateur athletes. But there's,

but people are all over the spectrum. You can't definitely, cannot just make a gross generalization here. There's people like you, Nick, who are never going to go home because they're talking to every single person to do the triathlon. And then there's people who didn't get a PR by one minute and just want to leave immediately and go train more. It's all over the spectrum. I just remember, like, I only did, I've only done one bike race, and it was before ever did a triathlon. But I remember everyone was so cold and, like, very focused. And it was a cat five road race. Like, none of us are fast, you know. It's not a big deal.

And then I remember my first triathlon, you know, the San Diego one I just did six years ago. I was talking to everyone. Everyone was so friendly. Everyone's just out there to try to like have a good time. And I just wonder if it's something about triathlon is you against yourself. And bike racing is, nope, I'm out here to beat all these guys. And if you get dropped, like your race is over. Like, you have to stay with the pack.

I don't know if it, but you're saying there's no difference. And I don't have enough data points to really draw conclusion. But it seems like triathletes are in general more open and friendly. way that maybe distance runners are compared to roadies that are a little more elitist. Yeah, I might be making that up. No, I don't think, I think you could say that for sure, but I also still think it, it's hard to make, like with Paula, it's hard to make a conclusion based on the way that someone is at a race.

You know, like I always, for example, thought Gwen Jorgensen was incredibly abrasive and not talkative, but I only ever saw her at WTS races. you know, like one day before she's trying to defend the world title. And then she came into her house one time when she was looking to buy a house, maybe in Bend, and she was so friendly, and we love talking to her and Pat, and she's got to, you know, Stan is awesome. And it just occurred to me as like, oh, yeah. I cannot ever judge anybody based on the way that they are around a race

because you're like the most intense, stressful, you know, situation in your life. Especially for pros, I think. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. I think it can be all over the place, but I like to think that the bike community can be pretty fun, have a good camaraderie,

and maybe just when you're showing up to the race, that's when it's serious. Yeah, yeah, you're right. And I don't mean to talk poorly about the cycling community because I definitely feel like a cyclist myself, you know, not just a triathlet, but I love biking in its own way. So maybe I should try a few more bike races. It's just I get a little scared about the pack dynamics,

Like Paula was saying, she's not used to it. I'm not used to it either. And it seems a little scary. Like, you see this footage of even like the best riders in the world. It's like crashes every race, you know. Oh, yeah. So maybe you're bringing some baggage, man. Yeah.

Maybe you're projecting. You're right. You're right. Oh, dang. You're right. Okay, next question here. I just watched the YouTube video and notice Paula cruising over cattle guards. I live in Wyoming where cattle guards are everywhere

and always thought you needed to dismount and walk over the cattle guard. You always ride over or are there times you just dismount. Send it. Every time. Yeah, send it. Unless they're the same direction as your tires. Ideally do not go with, they'll cross them widthwise. No, I don't love cattle grates and I'll slow down until I know what type of cradle grade it is.

Because some of them are tighter and smoother than others, obviously. and if everything's tight on your bike, it's fine, but often you'll have a bottle of launching if the category has a big bump or something. So just approach with caution. But in this video, I wrote over that category approximately 1,560 times. For the footage.

Yeah. So I was super comfortable with it. I'm just kidding. I nailed every one of my shots on the first time, but then Sam also wanted a couple pictures. So, yeah, it got a little complicated. By the fifth take, I was pretty comfy, right? riding over it.

Speaking of filming things a thousand times, Paula, you finally saw the little edit that Eric and I are working on for the Hawaii film, right? Yeah, it's amazing. Are we allowed to talk about this? Heck yeah. I was really hoping that we would talk about it in the opening banter. Yeah, Nick and Eric went to Big Island in April to film for Foreign Rider, and the finished product is so cool. Is it going on YouTube? It will go up on Foreign Rider YouTube, yep.

Okay, cool. So we'll link to it and you guys can watch it. And I'm not sure it's quite finished. because we actually haven't heard back from Ralph really about it yet. But it definitely feels like it could be the finished product, right? Like it has a whole vibe to it. Yeah. I would say we could spend another four hours polishing little things here and there

and getting down to like, you know, how do I feel about it versus how do you feel about it? But also what it is could be put on the internet and it's wonderful. Perfect. Yeah. There was only one shot where I was like, oh, that's a little saturated. But also the place is just so beautiful that maybe that's just how it looks. It's a little more colorful than Ben. The thing is.

it doesn't matter if that's the place or not. If you have that thought, it should be adjusted, you know? Okay. Because that distracts you from the storytelling, right? You don't want to ever have a thought. You don't want the filmmaking to be brought to your attention. You just want to be transcending to this. And for the most part, that's what this is.

It's so cool. Yeah. So good job, you guys. It's killer. Up until now, Paula has just thought that we were like screwing off in Hawaii. She hasn't seen any sort of finished product. Well, she's not totally wrong. We did have an awesome fun time.

You guys have also just been stressing out over it for two months, trying to do it along with a million other things. So I sensed the stress and to have it like kind of in finished form is really nice. What really made this happen is that Eric, you recorded that voiceover for it. This is not great podcast material because no one has seen it yet. But your voiceover, like your experience of what it is to be an athlete, what it is to be training for 20 years, that is what you really get the sense that it this visceral feeling of what it's like to be a professional athlete.

And I think that's what makes it special is like this vulnerability a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I did really bring it together. Yeah. My favorite shot is one of the goats running away. Oh, isn't that cool? So good.

That's some like national geographic. Yeah. Craziness. Is my favorite shot. Do we know when that'll be available to the masses? is? We are hoping Yeah, yeah, basically we'll tease it a little bit. We'll put out some

like some pictures from the trip. I've already gotten onto the Foreign Rider Instagram. And then we'll do a little bit of a video teaser and then we'll put this up right when the all of the technical apparel launches. So he's already launched the cotton apparel and the stuff that's a little more motorcycle focused and then the second launch is getting into the technical stuff. Cool. Okay, well, moving on. Next question here is from Sam. And this happens sometimes. This question's for Flynn. Hey, Flynn. Absolutely love the pod. Listen to them all. I'm really having trouble with my goggles, though. Every swim in the pool and at the lake, in the first 100 meters, there's a constant struggle of stopping water leaks coming in. I know this doesn't affect you because you never wear them, but was hoping you could ask your human parents on some advice for me. I'm writing from the French Alps. You'd all love it.

here, Sam. So do you guys ever have issues with leaky goggles? Yeah. And what do you have a solution? We're not even going to go find Flynn and get him to come ask us this question. Yeah, I find that if I try to like switch up the brand or try something new, I regret it and go back to the Speedo Vanquisher, which I've used since I was 10. Wow. Like honestly, there's so many fancy goggles out there that are so expensive or that are like fit perfectly to your eye but they don't work. It's just overkill. And then I buy a $20 pair of Amazon Speedo vanquishers and they never leak. The visibility is great.

I get a new pair for every race. Yeah, they got the big old gasket. Yeah, Speedo just has done goggles forever so they know how. Yeah, it's not something that's like a computer where like new technology is coming out. Yeah. You just need a good gasket. Silicon's been around a little while. Yeah.

One thing I would say is getting the nose piece right is important. So even on the Speedos, they'll come with four sizes of nose pieces, and it's really quick just to swap them out. But if I have one that's too big, it'll leak. So as soon as you get them, just kind of like fit them to your face. And then it should be good to go. I don't know. Eric uses the arena cobras.

He likes those. I like them pretty well, but I don't know what exactly they're called. but I still really like the blue 70, like, kind of sporty. Contour. Contour. Do you know who makes those? Blue 70. Well, I mean, I'm sure they didn't design and manufacture that goggle.

I think it's a little bit of a copy of a Speedo goggle. Oh, okay, but it is their own manufacturing. I see. There's only, you know, it's China. China will make you anything you want. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, there's only so. Is that kosher to say?

I don't. Yeah, yeah, of course. Okay. Yeah, there's just only so many ways to make a goggle. And like Paula, I really want to try something, you know, find something that's just like revolutionary and just doesn't, you know, hurt or leak or do anything or fog. And it just like doesn't exist.

Eric, didn't you say, that reminds me of that goggle that you said you tried that literally doesn't fog? Like it's very expensive. That's the arena cobra, the swipe. Yeah. Yeah. It works pretty well. I wouldn't say it's like, like,

looking through a perfectly clear windshield permanently, but it works pretty well. Wow. Last thing of advice I have maybe is if you're constantly having issues and maybe your bone structure and your eyes is a little funny, then you could try like an oversized pair. Like something that kind of...

Yeah. Those really do work. But something that's just like one frame instead of like two separate goggle pieces. Oh, like the aquas spheres. Yeah, they'll look a little dorky, but like they'll fully seal your whole whole. socket like around your eyes so

that could be something to try as well maybe nice for open water I've never used I really don't like using like the ones that actual swimmers use like those tiny little speed of ones I think you guys kind of both use those I always like slightly oversized ones you're talking about he's just talking about what we would consider

to be normal pool goggles gotcha yes yeah I like like the Paula the ones you gave me those orca ones I really really like those and those are slightly bigger like the Roka X ones like their open water ones those are way big, but they just feel good. They don't put pressure on my eye socket. And for me, they don't leak. You don't look as cool, but I don't go fast anyway, so I never look cool anyway. So it doesn't matter.

Yeah, the nice thing about goggles is none of them are that expensive. So you can kind of like trial and error. A couple pairs, it's not the end of the world. It's not like a bike. So you might have to buy three different brands and see what you like the best. Yeah. Cool. Hey, Eric and Paul, a nutrition question inspired by this week's YouTube video. When cooking pizza on the uni, are you keeping the flame on high while the pizza is on the oven? Or do you turn it down during the cooking and back up again after removing the cooked pizza before the next one goes in? Could be a game changer.

P.S. love the pizza inclusion in the videos, Matt. Hell yeah, we crank it up and then turn it back down when we put the pizza in? Yeah, well, then why do you always burn it? What are we, children? Why do you always burn the crust then, Eric? Uh-oh, uh-oh, shot fire. Because you're getting crust that are too thick and you're not taking them out of the freezer early enough.

Okay. Wow. Wow. Trouble in paradise here. The dough is very critical to not getting it burned, but yeah. Do you guys get the Trader Joe's dough? We've tried Trader Joe's, yeah. There's a couple of different doughs we like, and one that we really liked that's harder to get,

so we don't get it as often as we would like, and we kind of end up settling, and that's when we get burned dough because it's too thick. But, I mean, the temperature is an important aspect. Yeah, yeah. You have to kind of let the stone heat up long enough so that when you put the pizza on it, it does cook fast. That's the whole point of the uni. and then cranking down the flame a little bit when the pizza's in.

So you don't nuke the toppings? You don't nuke the toppings. Yeah. And then it just gives the crust the opportunity to cook through. But it's really crazy how quick the uni cooks a pizza. Like under three minutes you go from pizza. You can't go off and look at a text message. Yeah, it's like a full focus activity.

But they come up pretty quick. And we really like them for having friends over because everyone can kind of make their own. And it's like very social. Oh my God. So embarrassed. My Italian roots when I made my pizza and it was just so poorly done. Well, the Oonis, like, you have to, there's a learning curve, but. Thanks, Paula.

We have no regrets, and we bought it ourselves, but this is not a sponsored product. You paid full price. Full price. Like, I think we've sold about 100, but we paid for it ourselves. Someone who works for Oonie actually sent us a cookbook. And we were like, can we get an upgraded model? I'm like, no, we'll give you a cookbook. No, Eric, that's not it.

We didn't ask for anything. She just offered to send us a cookbook. Okay, I asked you to ask her. Yeah. I guess you did not. We have the best model, so we're good. Anyway. Good.

We love it. And then last question here, it's kind of a deep philosophy question. Hi, TTL team. I know you've all dealt with your fair share of injuries in the past, and I've wondered how you stay motivated and positive in the midst of continued setbacks. This year alone, I've pulled a hamstring,

strained a glute, and now sprained an ankle, and I'm feeling generally defeated about being in a never-ending cycle of rehabilitation towards general fitness, only to cascade down and start all over again. It's hard physically but feels almost harder mentally to recover from repeated injuries. Thanks for all you do, Nick. I could have written this one. That's a tough cycle to be in. You want to take it away?

Yeah, I've been in the cycle a lot. I think a lot of it, when you are repeatedly injured in different spots, the injuries are likely related in some way. and maybe you got back to something too quickly and it set something else off. And it is a cascading effect like this person said. As triathletes, I think we're pretty lucky that usually you can still continue training in one or two of the other sports if you can't run. So at least for me, that's what I focused my energy on. And it's how I got to be a better cyclist ultimately.

I used to – the run used to be my strength. And throughout my teenage years and in my 20s, I was – was very injury prone, rode my bike a lot more and got way stronger on the bike and still now the bike is my strength. So there's like silver linings that way. If you can put more effort into those other sports, I do think that when you come back to running, the fitness transfers over pretty nicely and you can get back quicker than someone who's just a pure runner who's like water running to compensate for. I was just riding with Colleen Quigley, who's a steeplechaser, and this year is doing triathlon

and she was just saying that this is the longest she has gone without injury in a long time because she's incorporated triathlon into her training and she's racing at USA's in a week so it's hard to say that to a triathlet that's getting injured all the time but imagine if you were just a pure runner doing all those hours running like it would be even harder.

It just shows that you can run less miles maybe and up the swimming and the biking And then I think Colleen also just uses the swim and the bike for recovery a lot of the time and less for fitness, at least at this time of the year when she's building up for her track season. Going to the pool after a track workout is actually great recovery. So question about this, when I first started getting my first injuries, it was heartbreaking because all I wanted to do was train and get faster. And I was so frustrating that there was this thing that I couldn't control. like training is hard enough and when you have the motivation to do it but you can't because of some stupid little thing it's so frustrating and the more time goes on the more i find myself at peace with it have you

guys found that too like did you used to be more frustrated with it and you like like you just recover mentally faster from it now do you think this is something that that does progress in that way um i think that a little bit the technology now helps us stay healthier and recover better when we do get injured. Like, better access to physio, better access to massage, better access to MRI or imaging if something's bad. And then like NormaTech boots, eating healthy, I don't know, all these things that we do better now that maybe we used to contribute to not only getting injured less, but also recovering from injuries faster. And we've just been injured so much we kind of have experience with stop right away. Like don't push through pain. That's just going to prolong it.

I kind of had a hamstring niggle after Chattanooga, and I took two weeks off running. I didn't really talk about it, but I know at this point in my career that I could have maybe run, run more week and pushed through it, and then I'd be backstepped for like a month. So it's really important to pull the plug immediately and get it looked at versus seeing if you can do one more workout. Yeah. Yeah, but to answer the question, I do feel much more relaxed about getting injured at this point of my career than I was initially. I think initially there was much more of a sensation

of like I need to perform at every single race to, you know, make the federation happy, to stay on track for the Olympics and I'm just to just to make money so that I can keep myself afloat. And now, yes, having experienced some injuries knowing it's not the end of the world helps, but also just being in a place where it truly isn't the end of the world. And like I've had enough experience with like breaking the foot but then like paula said you put extra time in on the bike of the swim and that improves and you realize that overall you're a better athlete at the end of it and the running comes back quickly so that that's just yeah i do think we're a little more relaxed about it now than when we were 17 eric you and i both have this kind of chronic injury where you

it's your hip it's your it's your labrum right and for me it's my biceps femurus tendon and my right leg that I've had for now for like five years. And it's just, it's something that it's never going to kind of really go away unless maybe you get surgery on it or how does that, like, how much do you kind of, I don't know how else to put this, but like feel bad for yourself about it? You know, just like, I, like, there's nothing I can do. Why is this happening to me? I went through a long, a long phase like that where I still felt like,

I just can't figure this out. There's going to be a way to figure it out, and I'm really frustrated, and it's stupid. And then, I don't know, I was having a conversation with my PT at the time. This was probably three years ago. And I was like, yeah, it just doesn't feel the same. And I don't know. It doesn't feel right.

And he's like, okay, just hold on a second. You need to recalibrate. It is never going to feel normal again. Yeah. Just you need to, like, forget about whatever normal is and just like try to make it better in the ways that you can and just accept that this is, this is like who you are now.

Yeah. Short of getting surgery. And like surgery is risky and who knows of you come back from a laboral tear surgery successfully or something else is a problem. And that actually has kind of helped me over time of like, okay, I'm just, I'm hoping that I'll have a good day as much as possible, but I'm not going to just get super upset and frustrated

when it feels like absolutely. crap. It takes time to get to that point because there's like a, it's a little bit of a sense of loss that you have. Like, you're, you're kind of grieving the athlete that you, that you could have been a little bit. But then once you accept it, it does get better. Yeah. It just like, it stinks to go through. Yeah, it's just a switch from like, how can I get back to that athlete versus, okay, how can I be the best version of this athlete that I am now? Yeah. Yeah. Well said. Okay, well, those are all the questions we for this week. You guys are up at altitude and beautiful, beautiful Camor

and you're going to be there for a few more weeks, right? We're loving it. But there's some other things we want to do with the van. So maybe we'll head off a couple days early and see Revelstoke or something, but definitely loving the can at a time. Awesome. And what's kind of like

what's next on the schedule? Is it Milwaukee? Yeah, Paul is getting ready for the PTO US Open. Right? In Milwaukee. He was in Dallas last year, Milwaukee this year. Thank God.

That Dallas race was... Yeah, Milwaukee could be hot too, though. There's no way it could be that hot, right? I don't know. It's pretty humid there. But yeah, probably not as hot as Dallas. I don't know. That was pretty awful.

But yeah, that's the next thing. Great. Awesome. Well, thanks everyone for listening. We will catch you all next week. Later. Thanks, guys.