That Triathlon Life Podcast - Paula wins IM 70.3 Chattanooga, Eric Podiums XTERRA Oak Mountain, Nick finally runs well off the bike, and questions!

Episode Date: May 25, 2023

This year we spend the first 44 minutes recapping our epic race weekend where all 3 of us raced. After that, we get into questions about triathlon! Questions about dealing with mid-race dread, drafting in non-draft races, sleeping the night before a race, more! To help support the podcast, as well as submit your own question, head over to http://www.thattriathlonlife.com

Hey everyone, welcome to That Triathlon Life podcast. I'm Paula Findlay. I'm Erica Loggestim. I'm Nick Goldston. And welcome to episode 69 of The That Triathlon Life podcast. We're super glad you're here. We are all triathletes. Eric and I are professionals. Nick is an amateur. Nick is also a very good musician doing the sound mixing on this pod. And every week we take your questions. We talk about races we may have done or are training a little bit, but mostly we're. we try to shed a little bit of info and knowledge on you guys. So we're super happy to be here. Nick, you're actually tuning in from Telluride. Telet, Colorado, up at 8,000 and change feet, almost 9,000.

Yeah, it is. And I have a bit of a cold, so it's like a double whammy. It's like oxygen debt and also, I don't feel so great. And boogers. Yeah, and boogers. But yeah, will this ever happen again where between the three of us, there are four races in a weekend? Probably not.

Not four. That'll never happen again. Or like three and a half. I mean, you raced and you raced pros and you finished a race. That's all I know. Okay, well, just to recap, because that's confusing. Eric, or I raced 70.3 Chattanooga.

Nick raised 70.3 Morrow Bay. And Eric raced Exterra Oak Mountain, which comprised of a long track race on Saturday and a short track on Sunday. So yes, altogether we did four races, which is a lot. Wait, the long track, so this is a little confusing for me because doesn't Extera now also have like a long course gravel-friendly race? But that's not this, right? It was just standard distance and then they have short track.

Yeah, I guess I shouldn't have called it long track. If you've watched cross-country mountain biking with the World Cup circuit, that's how that operates. Basically, you just get two opportunities to race on the same weekend. And what is the deal with those, the long course race that Xera's trying to put on? Has that happened yet? They're just experimenting around with different race formats. I think they've recognized, obviously, like everyone else, that gravel and the length of gravel races is very intriguing to people. And I think they're just trying to figure out what people want to do and they're throwing ideas out there.

And I really like that innovation. So the long course, I think, will be, I don't actually know that much about it. But my guess is that it's going to be somewhere around like the 70.3. length of time spent off road. Right. Four race is a lot of recapping. And Nick, you also said we had some really great questions this week. We do have really good questions this week.

Maybe just like main takeaways, anything that you feel like might be valuable or that you are going through emotionally. Totally. Yeah. People really like the recaps, it seems. But as soon as we said we were going to do that, Eric had a little hissy fit and he doesn't want to. So we can go into the race recaps individually as deep or as shallow. as we want. And if you don't want to hear this, skip to...

44 minutes and 40 seconds. Yeah, Nick, you just insert what number the minutes are where they can just miss the race bullshit and get straight to the questions. Yes, exactly. So if you don't care how our races went, then that's totally fine. You're here for the question. I think both of you think that no one cares about race recaps or you think some people do? No, nobody think... No, we're not dumb.

I am just, here's how, we know everybody likes race recaps, but here's how my weekend goes. I race. I sit down in front of the camera and I recite to the camera how my race went. I get Paul to do the same thing. Then I get to hear us while editing for like 12 hours. And then we sit down and we do it all again on the podcast. And I just like by that time, I'm just like I've heard it a lot.

And also it's not like you haven't, it's not like you finish the race and you don't think about it. It's like you finish the race and you're thinking about it on top. of all of that stuff. Yeah, yeah. So it's already in your head. Race brain. Yes. So by the time Wednesday comes around

to record this, it's been a lot of thinking about it, but I'm going to do it. Okay, so he's smiling. And you can't tell folks, but he's actually smiling saying that right now. Okay, so who should we start? Should we start with the person who won?

Yeah, let's start with the person who won. Who was that? Who won? Eric got pretty close. Yeah, Eric was, Eric actually probably had the most impressive race because he got so close. close to the exterior world champion.

He was like 30 seconds behind the world champion in his race in second place. I won. That's your whole race recap, right? That is my race recap. Paul won and Nick came. It was a successful weekend. Wow. That is a successful weekend.

Yeah. That's right. Okay. Paula's race. She raced in Chattanooga, which a history. historically, I mean, has in the past been the 70.3 American national championships. This year was just a regular 70.3, but it was a women's pro field only. That's cool. For Nick and I, because they actually had the outside live broadcast going and it was 100% focused on the women's field. None of these bros.

Just we're watching the ladies race the whole time. Yeah, that was really cool. And actually, from my perspective, it was cool to have like the police, what do you call it? Escorting? Motorcade. motorcade about probably like 800 meters in front of me a kilometer like far enough that I didn't obviously get a draft effect from them but they were leading the race to clear the traffic and make sure everything was safe and the roads were open so something I'm sure the male pros experience all the time but as women we don't see that so that was really cool but yeah I drove up

to the race from Birmingham where Eric was racing all by myself I got a hotel really close to transition, which was ridiculously expensive, but logistically so nice to be able to just get to transition, get to the briefing, get to everything so fast. Kind of an interesting lesson to invest in yourself, bet on yourself, it'll pay off if you do well, whatever. To help take the stress off the weekend. So that was really nice. Meanwhile, I stayed in the Super 8. Yeah, just outside of Birmingham. There wasn't a lot of options. So yeah, I felt crazy relaxed and not nervous for this race for a change, which I think was just a factor or the factors leading into that were just that I've raced so much this year. And I wasn't even going to do Chattanooga. It was kind of a last minute decision. So it felt a little bit like a bonus in my mind. And it was a really strong field, but not as intimidating of a field as a Biza. So there was less pressure. I felt like I had a good chance of winning. I felt like.

my body felt good, all these things. They kind of just led to the process. And I've said this before. I think the more I race in the year, the less nervous I get worked up about any one race because it just becomes kind of second nature. And you don't have to think as much about the prep. It's kind of just dialed by that point.

So yeah, I felt really good. All of the women were like super chatty and friendly on the race morning. Like we're all really good friends. So that really takes the nerves off as well. Who are all the women? Cast of characters here. Yeah. Jackie Herring, Sarah True, Jeannie Metzler.

Sky Monch, Danielle Lewis. One of our development team athletes, Kaylee Slade was racing, which was cool. That's cool. Yeah, just like a really, really good group, mostly American-based athletes. The swim is downriver, so it's actually a longer swim than 1.2 miles

because the time it takes is about the same as if it's in a still water race. Wait, what? Yeah. Much people taking Chattanooga off their schedule right now. Wait a second. It was a downriver swim. But that's not the case for like Oregon.

So is that just a Chattanooga thing? Or is that race by race? I was thinking about this. They respect the triathlon. Logistically, it makes sense to start where it starts. It's at the rowing club. So I think just getting from where the rowing club is to where the exit is, time-wise, it ends up being the same as a 70.3 swim distance normally is.

Interesting. I like it because although it's downriver and yeah, if you just float on your back, you'll probably get there eventually. It's not like a ripping current. So you don't actually feel it really. and it still does create gaps between stronger and weaker swimmers. It doesn't really give an advantage to a weaker swimmer because it's so long. Like you're in there forever.

Right. I had a good start. I felt like super chill. I wasn't hypoxic. I think the altitude is still kind of paying off a little bit. And I could see purple sleeves ahead of me and I was kind of worried that it was sky. Full respect to sky. She's amazing.

but I like to have a gap on her out of the water because she's so strong on the bike. So I was like, wow, sky's having such a good swim or I'm having not as good of a swim for me. I was kind of getting annoyed and frustrated with myself, tried to go around or couldn't. And I could see one person up the river that I thought was probably Jeannie or Sarah.

But when I got out of the water, the purple sleeves were actually Jeannie, who's a really good swimmer. And Sarah True was also a really good swimmer. So I was out of the water in good position. Had a pretty good transition, got on my bike. Chattanooga is renowned for its rough roads and train tracks, and you're supposed to strap all your bottles down,

and I forgot to do that. So over the first train tracks, my front bottle launched. Wow. This is with a gorilla cage. Yeah. It's a strong cage. Do you feel it like on your body hard as well? Yeah.

It's like, it's shocking how like much impact and force going over the train tracks. It like feels like you should launch your freaking whole body off your bike. That's how strong it is. Is there anything that you could kind of do to make that better, do you think? Yeah, duct tape your bottle to your bottle cage. Okay, and then how do you get it out? Well, it's just the one you refill, so. Okay.

It's like an X lab, whatever with a straw. This is not a problem for her to duct tape hers down. Yeah, I'll be duct tape and mine down. And if you don't have that option, go over it at, like, walking speed. You could still put a small. smaller piece of tape that you could rip off after the first two miles. Yeah, true. True. True. If you had a traditional bottle.

So anyway, it launched off and like if you litter, even if it's unintentionally, you get a penalty. So I stopped my bike, turned around. And this is after I just passed Sarah, was about to pass Jeannie. It was on a roll and had to go back, find the bottle, put it back in, get going again. I didn't know this. But I was very chill about it the whole time. I was like, wow. You didn't know this because a lot of the times people just don't respect this rule and get away with it.

Of course, of course. I have seen it on camera. And also I wanted my, I wanted my nutrition, obviously. Like if I lost that bottle, that kind of sucks. I'm not going to be doing that. I lost my nutrition. So my race. Right, right, right, right. That whole rigum roll. Yeah. But again, I was like surprisingly chill about it. And I just like repass Sarah, repass Jeannie, put my head down, rode pretty hard. Kind of an uneventful bike. I was kind of by myself the whole time. The motors were good about keeping a good distance to the same. side or behind me, and I didn't feel like that played a big factor in my bike split. So that's good. I know a lot of people get like question if the lead bike gets some motor help, but there were three cameras for the live coverage. One was on me, one was on the chase pack, and one was roaming. So everyone had motors around them. It wasn't just me. Which you could see on the live coverage, obviously. It was really impressive. And probably because it was women's only. Like we had a camera

on Paula, on Skylight, on the chase pack, you know, everybody, everybody was covered. It was awesome. Yeah. And the roads are nice once you get past the downtown area, like very smooth, very rolling, quite a lot of elevation gain just through the rollers. Like there's not any big steep hills, but kind of good, you got to like carry your momentum. So didn't have any split feedback really. So I didn't know what was going on.

But I, and I didn't think it would be that big. I thought it would be like a minute or two, maybe. but got off the bike with five minutes to Sky and maybe six to Jeannie and Sarah or five and a half, something like that. 5.45, 540. Yeah. And that's a pretty good enough gap to feel safe with. So at no point on the run did I feel stressed or like I was going to get caught

because I was running well. I was running like 345s, 340s, 350s. So it's like, okay, for them to catch me that I have to be running like 310s and that's not going to happen. So, yeah, super-touchy. super chill. Everyone was cheering for me, which was so cool. TTL, yelling my name. Never felt, it was one of the first runs where I wasn't like, oh, I wish this was over immediately. I was like kind of enjoying the run. The bike I wanted it to be over, I was dragging on a little bit.

And I realized that even though I'm pretty good at 70.3 racing, I don't love the distance. It's so long. The bike takes forever. You're like, you're on the bike for two hours and 20 minutes. You're trying to kind of grind this uncomfortable power. And after an hour of it, I'm over it. Do you think maybe though there's something to that now you're seen as a really, really strong, one of the best bikers? And your run has been kind of not as consistent. And you had such a good run. So it felt like, oh, this is nice. I mean, it was like the run I should have. It was nothing special. But I just wonder if that's, if that plays into it. If you're seen as a good biker now. So when you had a good bike, it's not like you're exceeding

expectations or I guess you're saying the run. You're not exceeding expectations either. So it doesn't really count. I don't think I was this time. It was kind of just solid all around. I don't know. Nothing crazy good on the run either, but just like way better than Oceanside. So the contrast was. Right. Was drastic compared to what I did there. But yeah, I won the race by quite a lot and it was great and felt really good. really happy to have a win. And it's good for TTL, you know?

It's good for everything. It's good for me. I just wanted to make the best story possible out of the whole weekend. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And I got to say, like, the hardest part of this whole race for me. I don't know if I should bring this up or not. But I crossed the line.

And this young girl, like five or six, gave me my finishers medal. And it was super cute. She was a bit shy. And she ran back to her dad. And her dad was holding her little brother, who was, I don't know, three or four younger. And the announcer comes up to me a couple seconds later and said, Dakota, who just gave me my medal, lost her mom in a bike accident a month ago.

And she was supposed to race Chattanooga. Her mom was, like her mom was out training for the race. So her and her brother and her dad were all there at the finish line, giving out medals to the pro women. And I lost it. Like, crying could not do interviews properly. It was like the saddest thing ever as I was just like standing there watching this family that just went through this unthinkable tragedy and we'll grow up without a mom. Like it's so sad.

So that totally, I'm not going to say like ruined the vibe, but it, I didn't care about the race after I heard that. I was like, I don't care that I want. I don't care about triathlon. This is just like the saddest thing I could ever imagine. And they were like so brave to be there at the finish line. Yeah. And it was the kid's choice to be there. I think they wanted to, and they did the Iron Kids the day before.

They both raced. They had the Iron Kids tattoos. And they, obviously the community is very supportive and behind them. And it was like a lot of people were racing on her behalf and in her memory and everything. So I hope they have a good support network. It seems like they really do. And yeah, we, I mean, I appreciate them being there. It was horribly sad.

I don't know if I could have done that. That is so heavy. Yeah, I know. anyway. It was, and I couldn't stop thinking about it all weekend. Like on the drive, on the whatever, it was really sad. And it was like no one else really knew except for some of the other athletes. And it looked like I was crying of happiness.

I was like, no, I'm not, I'm not crying with happiness. I don't care about this race. There's so many people that race for someone that they've lost, which is something that's kind of, it seems like it's kind of unique to sport. I guess you have that in art a little bit as well. but a lot of people like with the fuck cancer or yeah in memory of this person thing is a lot of that especially in triathlon it seems like and there's something about like putting yourself out there and giving it your all that feels like you're paying homage to that person and yeah they were out there they did the iron kids but they're also they're handing out medals which to me is like wow that is it's cool but it is heartbreaking yeah i can't imagine being that dad yeah i was crying a lot for the dad too just seeing him there And yeah, I can't imagine what he's been through. Anyway, not to dismiss that, but that was, like, a big part of the weekend for me.

And I think that's about, that's my race recap, yeah. I don't know. I immediately got in the car. I checked out of the hotel within an hour of finishing and drove two and half hours back down to Eric's race to watch his short track. So it was a whirlwind of a day. It just passed really quickly. and at the same time was the longest day ever. Well, that's a perfect segue into Eric's race.

Yeah, Eric, maybe you want to recap your like standard distance, hey? Yeah, we go back in time to before this terrible, not a thing that we learned about. Well, I didn't, like, I mean, yeah, it's a huge bummer. But I, like, I've been trying to think of a way to bring it up because it's such a big part of the race that I did. Like, I didn't want to do an Instagram post or, like, I think that I'm using that to bring attention to what I did. Like, no way at all. So it's important, I think.

Yeah, just hard for me to now talk about my awesome race. Yeah, that's true. We can flip it in the audience. Well, no, I mean, you can have both, right? This is what life is about. It's not just all sad or all happy. We have to live with both. And that's what triathlon is, right?

It's like it's suffering and joy all at once. That's what we try to ride that line. So I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Except I'm all sad now. Eric, you knew about this. I didn't know you were going to go first and then drop it right before I didn't even think about it. But as I was going chronologically through my experience that day, it was a big part of it. Okay, well, 24 hours earlier chronologically, yeah, I raised Exeterra Oak Mountain, which is actually the very first Xtera that I ever did.

two years ago. And I think we talked about it maybe on here, but I got a flat the last time I raced it. And I think primarily my goal going into this race was to make it through the entire thing, to finish, to kind of have, you know, revenge or whatever. You want to call it on that course and put that to bed. So I did a little bit different bike setup this time.

I had tire inserts in. I ran a slightly higher tire pressure. I pre-wrote the course. I found the exact spot that I flatted. last year or last time I raced and just like kind of kept an eye out on the entire course preview that I did for major things that could trip me up if I was going fast. On race morning, X-Dair is actually awesome because you start at 8.30. Oh, God, 830 is great.

Not 6 a.m. How reasonable is that? Oh, my God. How reasonable is that? So I woke up at like 530. felt great, had breakfast. Which was what, by the way, what was the breakfast? I just had cereal and some toast with peanut butter on it. Normally I would do, if we had a kitchen or something, I would do eggs and toast to just keep

lower fiber. But that's what I had, and I was in, I have that every single morning of my life. So I like to think, like, my body knows how to handle cereal at this point, and I try to get stuff that's lower fiber. But I drove over to the race. The race is pretty close to the hotel. Like, as the crow flies, I think it's about two miles. But as the car drives, it's like seven miles.

It's the most meandering way to get into the course. But it's kind of nice to just sit in the car and rock out on the way there. My goal, I guess my race plan was to swim really hard. I try to get as much separation as I could. I was hoping for about 45 seconds to Sam Osborne and Arthur Serrier, who, is the Extera World Champion currently and then just like whatever to everybody else. This race was massively

better attended this year because Xtera started the World Cup series which means that everybody's trying to get some points for a year-end ranking, which has some prize money attached to it and some prestige. So we had McKellie Bonacchina who raced in Abiza,

Arthur Serrier, who's the Xtera world champion currently. Karen McPherson, Josiah Middow, who's been Xtera world champion in the past. past. Yenzumil Sloth, Johansen.

I really hope I got all the right things. Wow. But very, very incredibly strong feel. So I went from thinking, like, I'm going to go to Exeterra Oak Mountain and win this to, like, I really hope I can get on the podium. Right. Getting on the podium would be incredible. And I'm just still trying to learn these European guys a little bit and find out how they race and what their strengths are and everything.

So that I can have the best chance of doing well at World Chance. championships in Italy later in the year. Had a great swim start. Dove in and just, I went really hard. I think also for me, the altitude is still paying off. So I feel like I can put in like, you know, 200 meters really hard when maybe sometimes I can only put in 100 before I start to get into like mid-race pace.

And I got the separation that I wanted and came out of the water with about 50 seconds, I think, to Bonachina and Sam Osborne. And I think Arthur Serrier was a little bit. further back with the main group, maybe like a minute 30 to them. And I actually had a great conversation with my good friend Chris Gantra the night before the race. And he said just like ride really strongly but smoothly and then really make sure that you have like a good second half of the run because the run course, the next era, Oak Mountain. Like it's just so twisty. Your legs get beat up. And like ultimately what ended up happening, I had that in mind. It just

stuck in my brain for some reason. And riding it like nine out of 10 instead of like 11 out of 10 like I sometimes do in these, where you're just trying to like mash everything you can out of every corner. It smooths everything out a bit. And I just felt like I wasn't quite redlining too hard. I was taking corners really well. I wasn't so hypoxic that I couldn't process the best line around a rock, et cetera. And I still expected that I would get caught within 10K, like I did last time by Sam Osborne. and after 10K went by, nobody was there.

We got to the main climb, which is about 25 minutes in, and it's about 20 minutes long, fire road climb. Oh, wow, that long. That's very long. Very long, fire road climb. It's like kind of a grind, though.

There's only a couple sections in it that are really steep, but for the most part, it's like 7% and kind of rocky. So I just, my goal was I pegged it at like 330, nothing insane and just wanted to like hold that the entire climb. I did that. Didn't get caught on the climb. I could start to see him back there, a group of guys. And I just kind of stayed on it.

Anytime it would flatten out, I'd make sure I just kept holding 70.3 power basically. And I just kind of made it my goal to make it as far as I could at that point, since I was already further than I thought I would make it before I had company. And I went to the downhill on the single track. It's like a 20 minute downhill with some. punchy climb, little mini climbs in it. Still didn't get caught. Still didn't get caught. And then it wasn't until about, I think,

three or four K to go that Sam Osborne and Ruther Serrier caught up to me. And they couldn't, they didn't go around me. Like maybe they could have, but at that point, I just kept riding solidly. And if they wanted to come around, they could. But they didn't. And we all came into transition within one second of each other.

So that's the first time you've ever led off the bike in an Xera. Yeah. I think technically, may have let off the bike since he passed me with two meters to go. Oh, sure, sure, sure. At the dismount line. But yeah, this is the first time that I've basically been wire to wire at the front,

haven't gotten caught, you know, gave up my swim gap pretty quickly. So at that point, it's like, this is a huge win. Whatever happens from here, I'm just, I'm freaking sight because that's what I wanted to have. Don't flat, ride well. And did you feel like, was your brain telling you you're going to be able to run well now or were you a little concerned about that? No, I felt like I was ready to go. That's great.

Yeah, because I just, I never felt like I, you know, like I said, went way over the red line on the bike. I felt like I kept it in control pretty well. And it's like those really high power surges getting out of the saddle over and over again. That's what really takes the run out of your legs. And I didn't, since I was riding by myself and riding linking turns really well, I felt like I smoothed it out as much as it could be smoothed out. And that also comes into like my tire pressure. I felt like was dialed.

I think I got my shock settings really dialed, and I was able to ride and pedal through a lot of pretty bumpy stuff when sometimes that might trip you up, and then you could get out of the saddle and smash and ruin your run legs. So Sam Osborne had a really good transition, took off super hard, got about a 20-meter gap on me at around 100 meters in, and then Arthur was behind me.

And I ran up to Sam, and right about the same time Arthur caught up to me, and then we ran together. That was probably around 1K in and then we ran together for a K. And then Arthur put in this like superhero move and just like pinned it like probably five minutes per mile on trail.

And I went with it. Sam couldn't hang. I stuck with him for like probably 800 meters before just kind of like had this little voice in the back of my head. Like it had been overcast the whole day and like a little bit cool. But any time the sun would peek out for one second, it just went green room status. Because it's so humid there.

So I was like, man, if I peg this super hard, there's a chance, the same thing will happen to me, it happened to Sam, and you can just lose. When you're tired running on trail, you can lose a minute instantly. It just, it goes so fast. You can't just float anymore, and you're just hitting these little punchy climbs. At this point, you've done so many 70.3s,

how different does the run feel than a 70.3? Is it, are you, how much of the fun factor is actually getting through to you and how much of the like dynamics like you said you can't just float through and rely on momentum right because you're constantly shifting where you're running and stuff like that yeah i love it and i think it perfectly fits my physiology i think i don't have this insane v02 and like i wasn't gifted with this ability to sit just at the red line like some people might like we'll just throw the norwegians out there or whatever but i'm do really well with a race like alcatraz or like these exteras where it's

You have to run super hard up a climb, and then you can float down the backside, and you have to make sure you don't trip and fall and run around a tree. I get very engaged in those things, and I think I do a good job of, like, carrying momentum through a course, both biking and running,

and I can maximize, you know, just, I guess, my physiology, I feel like I can recover really well, but I can't just, like, redline forever as well as some people. Right, got it. Okay. So, it's definitely, It's very different than a 70.3.

I would say a 70.3 is exactly like, you know, we've all experienced where you just, like, want to slow down so badly. But the second, you know you do and you're just so acutely aware of it versus this, it's like you're slowing down constantly. But then you're going max effort up a climb for a second and trying to do max effort minus one so that you can still walk over as you crest over the next side. And then you've got to jump over a log and make sure you don't trip and fall. So you have to be just slightly inside of yourself and under control.

which is I find super fun. So basically the gap that he got in the next five minutes, like around kilometer four to five, just stuck for the whole thing. It was 30 to 35 seconds. I could see him occasionally through the woods. I could see the people behind me. Nobody was coming up fast.

So I kept pushing it. I got a pretty rough blister, but came home second place. Amazing. Which is, yeah, Masily exceeded my expectations. You know, I'd hoped that I could be on the podium and be up there somewhere. But, I mean, these guys are really good exter athletes. So I didn't rock up thinking, oh, I can just beat them.

No problem. Yeah. And at any point, were you concerned that you might blow up? Or did you feel like I'm going to finish this race strong? And if someone passes me, it's because they're having a really good race. No, I didn't feel like I was going to blow up. The only time that I was a little bit concerned about that is while I was going with that big move. But I backed it off to a spot where I,

I felt like I could maybe go. I could probably go a little faster than this, but I do not want to risk going over the, over the line and then getting rolled up by five guys. Right. Right. Because it was all close. That happened to Sam.

Sam blew up a little bit after his early start and he went from leading the race to I think, I want to say fifth because I think Josiah or right, no, Emil Johansson, he caught him. Okay. So, yeah. Awesome. I was, I was freaking, I was super. Yeah. So this is like, I feel like what's been happening lately with you is like on certain road

races, you're like, you feel deflated afterwards, and then you do these Xeras and you're like inflated. And this, I feel like contributed to that even more so. But this, I feel like this inflated, you're a feeling about triathlon overall. For sure. I mean, you know, it still is triathlon and it's still swimming, biking and running. And I know if I want to get on the podium at World Championships, I need to swim a little bit better. I need to climb a little bit better.

better on the bike and I need to make sure that my legs feel strong all the way through 10K of punchy trail running and getting better at all of those things is only going to help my Alcatraz racing. It's only going to help, you know, whatever other on-road triathons I choose to do later in the year and just having something that I'm really looking forward to and fired up about that makes the training more interesting and enjoyable. I think that's only good. Yeah. Yeah, that's fantastic. What a good, I mean, then you, you knew you had to race the next day too, which is a little hard to get your head around, I feel like.

No, I mean, so the short track that was the next day had a very small amount of money, a small amount of points. And I just didn't really, never in my mind did I think I would do super well at that because it's like cyclocross racing. It's so hard and fast. And you have to get out of the saddle a whole bunch. It's only like 30 minutes long. I never really thought I would do super well at that.

I would try really hard, but it's so far out of the wheelhouse of what we've trained for with 70.3 lately. It's the antithesis of 70.3. Yeah. So to me, in my mind, there was zero pressure on it. I was just going to go give my best shot and see what it was about. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. Next turn.

Well, yeah, while Eric was racing, I was also racing. And I think we started at pretty similar times. No, it was about the same because I was two hours ahead of you. Yeah, that's right. But you started two hours earlier than I did. Ironman. Why are you starting races at 6 a.m.? Oh, brutal.

Yeah, it's too early. It is early, especially when you're sleeping in your car. It feels extra early. It is nice to be able to check out by 11. Yeah, I mean, for me, like, I kind of like the vibes and I stick around and I want to, like, be around the people and talk to people. So it's no, like, I wish the race has started at 11. I don't, I would, I would prefer that. But anyway, my kind of quick version of things is that I was trying to,

run well off the bike. If you listen to this podcast, you know that I historically cannot run well off the bike. And we've long thought that it was because I wasn't fueling properly. So today the goal was don't necessarily push the swim, don't push the bike, just do solid swim, solid bike, and then try to run well for once. And previously my best run pace off the bike was in Santa Cruz. And that was like just under eight minute miles, like 7.58 minute miles, in training to me is like I can have a conversation like this. So it's never, I've never been under, I've never been able to understand why that was the case.

And this course was actually a really good comparison to Santa Cruz. It was also on PCH and similarly roly on the bike and similarly kind of flat and roly on the run. So I did whatever. The swim was fine. Very cold, but it was fine. The beginning of the bike, it rained a bit. I had a little bit of like flashbacks to Wisconsin when it was rainy and cold.

but it ended up being okay. And I couldn't wear my freaking visor because it was all misty and stuff. Do you think that's because it's old or they just all do that? No, I think it's because it's old. Okay. It's lost. It's all its anti-fog. Yes, definitely.

The helmet needs to be replaced. But they're expensive. Just get the replacement visor, not the helmet. Yeah, but the helmets are only good for a certain amount of time and I'm past that period now. Yeah, yeah, that's true in order for them to actually effectively protect your head. That's a little bit of advice for all the age. your helmets do not last forever. They don't last until you crash.

They are only rated for a certain amount of years. And usually it's printed on the inside of the helmet. One of the, there was an event in Ben last weekend called the pole pedal paddle. And they ski up at Bachelor, cross-country ski up there. Like downhill ski, cross-country ski, get on their TT bikes, ride down Mount Bachelor on their TT bikes, like, you know, head first. It's fast. You can go like 50 miles an hour average. And one of the guys that, I think he came third overall.

But he came into transition after the bike and he had like a helmet. I swear it was from like the 1800s. Right. I was like there's nothing about that helmet that's protecting you. No, it's just air dynamic. And technically you're not going to get DQed. But otherwise, that's not going to protect you. It just reminded me of that.

But yours isn't that bad. Yours isn't that bad. No, it's like four or four years old maybe. But anyway, so I actually swam the same as I swam in like Santa Cruz. And then I biked pretty much identically to what I biked in Santa Cruz, same power. What wise or time wise? Um, both. I definitely watt wise, but I think pretty similar on both.

Except I remember on the Santa Cruz bike when I was coming back, I was like cramping and very exhausted and I was not at all on this one. I felt like it felt, it felt too easy. I definitely could have pushed more on the bike and I have a slight regret about that. I was curious about that of like, how is your like good biking aligned with your good runs versus, you know. Yeah, because you had a. great run. I think I could have done 20 more watts on the bike and still ran the same. That's my feeling. That's my sense. I might be wrong. But the good thing on the bike is for the first time ever in a 70.3, I fueled properly. I had 90 grams of carbs per hour. I used the

precision fuel and hydration gels that are 30 grams per and I just kept doing every 20 minutes. I was really good about it and had water with them every time. No stomach discomfort at all. Only gels the entire time. I had no, no drink mix at all. Interesting. Yeah. Did you do the preload thing with the salt? I did do the preload thing with the salt. The night before I took one packet of the precision 1500 and drank that.

They also tell you to do it in the morning. And I did not do that because I was in my car and just like trying to have breakfast. And it was just a mess. And I was like, this is not going to make a difference. Yeah, sometimes it makes my stomach feel weird. And I'm like, man, do I want to do this and have like a weird stomach that feels a little bit like I'm nervous? and then that messes with my head or... Oh, yeah, because you're saying the stomach discomfort makes you think that it's stomach discomfort

from your nerves? I'm drawing a lot of conclusions here, but that's the same sort of feeling as when you're to have like a nervous tummy. Sometimes I get it from... But I think like having it the night before is probably... I mean, according to the test I did, I should do it the night before and the morning of both. But I just did the night before.

Better some than none. Yes, definitely. And I had, I mean, I had no issue. with even remotely starting to cramp throughout the whole race, which is the first time that's happened to me in a while in a 70.3. Usually I have like little hints of it and then I'm able to stay it off. It also wasn't hot, though. It wasn't hot at all.

Yeah. Wasn't hot at all. But in Santa Cruz, it wasn't hot at all either. And I was dealing with cramps on the bike for some reason. Yeah. And I'm now looking back. No. Yeah.

I don't think for me it is. Usually cramps from me come when I am doing something that I didn't properly prepare for, either an intensity or a distance. Or like a 70.3 triathlon. Yes, exactly, exactly. But anyway, I don't want to spend too much time on the bike because it was kind of just fine. And the only bummer, and we'll talk about this later because there's a question about this was, it was really, really, really difficult to deal with the amount of people that were on course

and the amount of drafting that was happening. Yeah. And I don't really have a solution for that. But that bummed me out and kind of took the wind out of my emotional sales there. So I kind of just went with a group on the way back and tried to be as legal. as I could, but it was very difficult because people would slot in front of me, like three people would slot into the space that no one should be in. Yeah. That's so bad. Well, there's a solution, but we can talk about it in the question. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so then I'm just focusing on this run.

That's what I'm excited about. I'm like, I know, I had the feeling. I was like, this is going to be the day that I can run well. And I think I was hoping for running like 730 per mile. So I get off the bike. I take two gels with me. I start trying to run 730 per mile. It feels like 730. I look down on my watch and it's like, seven minute miles. I'm like, okay, slow down. And then I try to slow down. I look back on my watch. I'm still at seven minute miles. And the third time I did that, I was like, okay, I'm not going to run 7.30 pace. I'm going to just do what feels right for the first lap. And it should feel easy. And it did. And I held seven minute mile pace for the first lap. And I was thinking, I hope this

is an ego. I hope this really feels, I hope I can really sustain this. And the second lap, you know, I'm eating gels. I'm doing about 60 grams per hour on the run. instead of the 90, and I'm still feeling good. And then I get to the third lap, and I'm like, well, I might as well. Like, at this point, I'm already, this is a victory for me. I'm already happy. And if I blow up after this, that's fine. The fact that I made it two-thirds through the run feeling this good is such a good sign.

So then the third lap, I just gave it all I had. I think I averaged like 6.30 per mile. And I was definitely, at that point, then my heart rate was up. I was breathing really hard. I was working really hard, but I also felt super strong. Like I didn't feel that feeling, like Paula was talking about this before, that feeling of dread a little bit that I have felt in all of my other 70.3 runs. I was just like, I'm two miles in.

Three miles in, I'm just like, oh my God, how am I going to run another 10 miles? It's just going to grind it out. Never felt like that. I just kept accelerating and feeling, I was feeling so good. All I was doing was doing the gels and a little bit of water at aid stations. and man, having people like scream out TTL Nash or Go Nick was so fun, especially since it was three laps of, you know, you constantly see people. So I was seeing a lot of the same people over and over again, but I didn't necessarily know that. So it just felt like a bunch of different people

shouting my name. That was really, really fun. But I was able to accelerate through and ended up running a 129 half, which is the fast, I think I sent you guys a screenshot after, but that run had my fastest ever, half marathon, 10 mile, 10K, and 5 miles. So either my run has come a long way or I haven't really properly pushed myself before. But I was very, very, very pleased with that. And my overall time was also a PR. It was 446. I think there's a lot of time I can shave off of that.

But really good day. My coach was there. And a lot of really nice people were there. I love talking with TTL Nash. At one point, I was FaceTiming with Eric. and I was telling you about the race, and two different people came up and asked for a photo. While I had Eric on FaceTime,

I'm trying to talk about his race. It was a really fun day, and a lot of TTL people, I think, did that race. It was really fun. Yeah. To me, I feel like this is such a huge win of, like, obviously the nutrition and everything, but also just like a mental, like barrier,

a mental switch being flipped or whatever. You took, like, a triathlon, which it sounds like very difficult to run, X pace at the end of a swim and a hard bike and et cetera. And you just boiled it down to, I just want to have a good run. Everything that I'm doing today is going into just having a good run that's like a smaller like bite size chunk. Yes, absolutely. And you stuck to it on the bike. The bike, you like, you could have gotten upset about the drafting and whatever your watts and everything and just kind of like let that derail the goal. But you stuck to the goal. And it was a simple enough

goal. And then boom, now you have this confidence in your run and you can back it up one step and like, okay, how can I keep this going? Now that I. I figure out how to do the good run with a good, with this a little bit stronger bike. And I feel like I've had that many times in my career where just like the whole thing feels so overwhelming. And I get to the point of where I just like snap and go, okay, it's all too overwhelming. All I want to do is have a good T1 and make the lead group on the bike literally don't care about anything else.

And I have nothing else in my mind. And then the rest of this thing kind of falls into place after just like focusing on that one thing that's been a deal breaker or an issue. That's exactly what you're saying is the way that it worked out for me. I was just focusing on the run. But we've all done so much work on the swim and the bike that it's not like they don't happen. Like they're second nature to us. Of course.

Yep. So, yeah, the swim and the bike weren't my best ever, but they were, everything went great. You know, everything went fine. And then I was able to, instead of having anxiety over the entire race, I was able to just focus on this one goal of having a good run. Didn't it make you want to do another triathlon ASAP? Yeah, I did. Wow. I know. That's the problem. I know. And I'll say, well, I'll say like I had a lot of trouble pre-race week just dealing with, I guess, nerves. And we'll talk about this another time. And so when I finished and I felt that good, I kind of was immediately thinking about that and not realizing where that irrational anxiety comes from. Because I don't, I mean, at the end of the day, it's just we're all having fun. I don't put that much pressure on myself. But it did make me want to do Oregon. And I think I will do Oregon.

Okay. Sweet. Yeah. That's good. Yeah, it's good. And it's good. No, I'm very, very happy. Very, very happy with how the day went. The whole weekend was just a great weekend. And then as I'm like laying in bed the next morning watching Paula Wynchatanoog, I'm like, is this real life? Like, is this what we get to do? This is pretty great. Pretty amazing, man. We're very fortunate. Well, that only took 47 minutes, so. That's a long time. But no, I thought that was like, I mean, we each gave 10 to 15 minutes of an update. It's super long, but when you got three updates to do, it's just going to take while. They're so different, too. It's not like we all did the same 70.3.

Yeah. We have very different experiences and very different goals for each one. Yeah. We're in different categories. We're different genders. We're different, yeah. I've just given this audience mental whiplash real hard. Everything that, every experience across the board.

I have a little bit of an update that is a little bit of a bummer update on the TTL Nation kit order. I just got off the phone with. Steli a couple hours ago, they had an issue with printing some fabric for some of the order. So some items will be delayed. And unfortunately, their computer system missed up and they sent us like confirmations that, oh, your stuff is three weeks out. Your stuff is one week out. Your stuff will be shipping next Monday.

And then I, like, Tuesday comes around and I emailed them and asked them and we got to the bottom of it. So to everybody who will be affected by this, I think there are about 70 orders that had the item that is affected, I really, really apologize. The rest of your order will be on the way, plus a gift from Castelli, and that's it.

I just wanted to say something because it really bums us out because we try to back up these timelines and really give extra leeway in there and try to make sure that you get things exactly when we said. And this was just like kind of a freak situation, and I just wanted to apologize. That's that.

The details will be in, you'll all be getting an email if you're affected by it, And yeah, so just keep an eye out for that in your inbox. I feel like you're telling me to reset my password. It's like our systems have been hacked and your credentials have been. And hopefully it doesn't deter people from like doing a pre-order in the future. But this is the nature of pre-orders. It's like we have to do this with kits because there's so many different sizes and styles.

No, I think people understand. People definitely understand. Yeah, but I think that in today's age of like instant gratification, Amazon it arrives the next day. The pre-order thing is a little annoying. but we do appreciate you sticking with it. And I hope it's worth it when you do eventually get everything. Yeah. Okay.

So questions. And man, I have a lot and they're good and we don't have a lot of time. So maybe we'll try to keep it kind of quick. All right. Yeah, we'll keep it quick. And also if we have to just bump something to next week, that's fine. Okay, wonderful. You just like wink twice if it's one that we should go into depth on.

Otherwise, we'll be quick. Got it, got it, got it. Okay, first one here, hi TTL. In a recent podcast, you briefly touched on the issue about wanting to quit mid-event. Can you please discuss the psychological approaches you use to get through the grind phase of events? I'm talking about when things get real dark and deep. You know the point where your very soul is shouting out for you to stop. May all you live in the land of Eternal Tail wins, Terry. Yeah. Amen, Terry. Yeah. I think that my approach when this kind of thing happens is to ease

off because there's always going to be a pace that feels way better, even if that pace is literally walking and just reset your brain a little bit. And I walked in Oceanside. I don't know. I wanted to win that race. And here I am like walking 10K into the race for brief moments. But it did help me kind of reset. Like I walked through the aid stations, just took a jail, took some drinks. Wow. And kept going. And you're, you can really, really spiral if your body's in that much pain and discomfort and you don't want to be there. And you think about all that. But I think that just keep in mind, you'll, later on, you'll be way more proud that you finish than if you DNFed. Like the lingering, the overhead regret of DNFs is much worse than that one hour of kind of grinding

it out and just keep that in mind when you're trying to make that decision. I had to face that decision at the Olympic Games in 2012. All I wanted to do is quit. I literally pulled off the course to the doctor and was like, I'm down. I don't want to do this. And he's like, you should just finish the race. You'll feel better. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I did, and I came last, and like the outpouring of support from that, just crossing the finish line, was like so much bigger than if I had just quit. So it happens on every level of sport. You don't want to be there sometimes. I don't know why I love so much that you who just won a 70.3 as a pro is saying, when it really hurts, slow down. Like, don't just grind it out. Don't just bury yourself deeper. I mean, unless it's like the last two miles, you know, it's like, yeah, it's okay to give yourself a break. with the intention of like a mental reset.

Like think about if you're doing 50s versus 500s in the pool, right? Sometimes just stopping and like a little recollect yourself can help. Like it's not that bad. You know, you kind of get a second win sometimes. And also like I've said before, nutrition makes a big factor is a big factor too. Sometimes if you just take a gel 10 minutes, you'll feel a lot better. And then that kind of gets you out of your mental slump. So yeah, those feelings often come when you're a little bit calorie deprived or sugar deprived.

and you need a top-up. Okay, so Paula, you say that. And now I think of you, Eric, in a 70.3, you maybe don't have the same option that she does, like on the bike to just back off a bit because she's maybe going to be off the front, whereas your goal in a 70.3 usually is to try to be with these fast guys, right? So if you let off a bit, maybe you're, like,

at what point do you think it's not worth it to try to stay with these guys? And letting off does mean an actual sacrifice in the race. I didn't see you blink twice. This is like a five minute question. This is deep. I know, I gave a two minute answer. I feel like a very excited.

You're right. I do not have the option in any race that I do to ease off almost ever. If I ease off, I'm dropped. Like I, the way that men 70.3 racing is for me, I'm not dictating the pace. So it's just like if I'm easing off, it's going, okay, I think I'm comfortable with fourth place.

instead of whatever. And it's like the calculation that I did on the run in Xtera. Like if I really, really push this, there's a 1% chance. I get first place, meant not even that. I mean, like a very, very low chance. And there's a really, really high chance that I totally explode and get seventh place. But this person's talking about, though, when you get to that state of wanting to quit, you don't care what place you come in anymore.

You're fully detached from that. So if I'm walking at Oceanside, I don't care if anyone passes me. that's the point I'm getting to is like, my goal now is to finish. So I think that you need to just detach yourself from your result in that case. Things are that bad. All I do is I try to just focus on my form and like try to focus on like keeping my turnover up. Like if I can see my shadow, I try to make sure that my arms aren't flying all over the place and just like try to focus in on right here and now and sometimes that'll turn it around and like break that connection.

And again, it's like a reset, you know. I like the form. could be walking an aid station and one could be focusing on something besides how does this feel in my heart and my lungs. Right. Okay. Next question here is from Leslie. Hi, TTL team.

I was at Moro Bay 70.3 this weekend and saw on your Strava post, Nick, that you were also frustrated with the amount of drafting and packs of bikers that formed throughout the ride. I struggled with complying with drafting rules during the race and found that I was pushing too much power in an attempt to get around these groups of riders and avoid a drafting penalty. So there's more of the question. Are they giving out penalties? They gave out penalties, yeah. In the age of your birth? Yeah. But not enough. I mean, the idea is that one could receive a penalty, but what are the chances? Yes, very low. So I'll speak anecdotally from what happened to me. I was riding and pushing my power and I would, I passed a group of guys and I kept going.

And then like a minute later, I can like, we passed like a bridge and you know, I can kind of hear the echo and I'm like, oh, it sounds like people are right behind me. I look back and there's people like five feet behind me. And I'm like, oh, they're going to pass me. And then 30 seconds go by and they don't pass me. I look back and they're still right there. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, is this intentional? So then I kind of like let off a lot thinking, oh, I was doing a bad thing and like starting to push when they were trying to pass and, you know, I'm just trying to be courteous. And then they pass me and I see that they're all just riding in a pack, like almost like you're out for a group ride in a pack.

Like probably two or three meters between each of them at the most. And some of them are riding wheel to wheel. And I mean, that's intentional and that's really bad. But then the problem for me is I'm trying to stay legal. And like every time someone passes me, I need to give them the full space. The problem is if I actually give them the space, three to four people slot into that gap. So I'd just be going backwards for ever. And there's, I don't know what the solution is because with the amount of people that are all,

at the same time. Less people is the solution. That's the only solution is less people registered for these races. I can't think of anything else. It doesn't matter like what you have to make as a profit with a total number of people. If the course can't support it, like that's a completely terrible product. Your experience was impacted. So that's the only solution in my opinion. And this is, oh, this is an out and back. So like, I can't even imagine on a course with multiple laps when these people are overlapping. This was only one lap. This was. out and back. That's normal for a half.

You get into the looping situation in an Iron Man, which I imagine, like, that's also an issue in an Iron Man. It was so bad with an out and back. It was so bad. It's a loop. We just get sheltered from it because we're riding in a very small group of people at the front or with no one. But as I was riding back into town in Chattanooga, it was the same thing, packs and packs of people heading out on the bike at the same time. And I think that's a little bit just part of the sport now. I mean, it's stupid.

I really don't like it. It's part of the reason I did triathlon versus bike racing was that I like that it's an individual effort. Yeah. You know, as much as it can be. And this was not. Like there were people who were 100% went in with a thought, I'm going to find a fast group and just sit on their wheels. And that's going to be my bike leg. And the power difference is like astronomical.

Astronomical. I mean, for me, it was like 260 versus 210. Yeah. at the back of that. So I mean... You know where this is not a problem at all? Xtera. Bingo.

Bingo. No problem. Yeah. So I don't know what the solution is other than less people registered and Iron Man making less money. Okay. Next question here. Really quick one.

Well, the question is short, but I do think it's interesting. And I'm kind of curious. Do you also plan on continuing to race as an age rupor after your pro career from Forest? Zero. Now, that's not true because we've talked about this. You wouldn't be doing 70.3s, but you might be doing racing of some kind, Eric.

I don't know. I think about this pretty often. It just kind of pops into my head as we're, I don't want to say we're approaching the end of our careers, but we could stop racing tomorrow. It's just we're at this point, we're going as long as our bodies and our minds will allow us. But, you know, and our friend,

Lindsay Corbyn just retired, and we're certainly a lot of our friends who we started doing triathlon with, are in that phase of their careers. So it pops into your head. And I don't know. I'm not sure how much I'm actually going to be drawn to compete. It's hard to like take myself out of the space that I'm in right now

where as we're between races, you're tired and, you know, the last race you did. And like there's this stress curve as you get ready for it, just like you experience Nick. And like the aversion is almost to that. Like this pressure to go and, you know, like meet your own. own expectations. So I think my guess is there'll probably be like this phase of time where I just go for a couple years without doing any competitions of any sort. And then maybe I'll kind of,

I'll jump in that weekend mountain bike race or I'll jump in that open water race that's so casual and there's 50 people doing it just to, you know, maybe still have that sense of like, I wonder how fast I am with the amount of train that I have. But I don't, I'm not sure I'll go out and do a 70.3. I want to see you do the pole pedal paddle. Yeah, we'll do the pole pedal paddle. We're not going to do triathlons after. But I do feel like with our, like obviously we have many, many, many years of training under our belts. And when we retire and when we're older, those years are still going to be there.

We're still going to be athletic people. We're still going to be training. So I think even if you went to a trail race or went to a mountain bike race, you'd still place well in your age group. Oh, totally. And that inherently has this like addictive property where you're like, okay, I'm still good at this. I want to go do another one. So I disagree that we're not going to race.

I think that the competitiveness never really goes away. And if you're doing an activity that's enjoyable and you train for anyway, whether it's for exercise or like classify it as training or whatever, we will be at the start line of local events. I'm surprised to hear you say that, Paula. I don't know why I was expecting to be like as soon as this pro thing is over, I'm never touching a race course again. Not only because I don't like, I say so many negative things about racing.

Well, because, yeah, because it affects you emotionally a lot. Yeah. Of course. Well, that's more because of the pressure and the money and everything that's like associated with racing well now for me. Versus just if it was completely for fun. I love that. I love that. I love that.

I love that. I love that. I love that. I felt much lower stakes, lower pressure, lower whatever, and I enjoyed it more. So it's a direct factor of the hype and the pressure around races that I don't enjoy. And Eric enjoys the exteras. Yeah. Yeah.

I think it's, I don't know, if I could just like make it up, I think it's like if Paula goes to the extir, not the XTERA, to the PTO race, right? Like it's in your head or if I go to whatever, any race where it's like you need to have your absolute best day to even be in the conversation for someone who is competitive or near the front or, you know, these kind of things versus like, yeah, if I go to Extera, Alabama normally or Paula goes to Chattanooga, even on like, a not great day. She's still in the conversation for the podium. And that is, that's just lower stress. It's more like, oh, I had the opportunity to have a great day and I could win or whatever, versus like, even if I have the best day of my life, it's still hard for me to like imagine a result that's exciting.

Yeah. Good question. Yeah, good question. Next question here. Hi, Paul, Eric, Nick, and Flynn. I'm about six months into my triathlon journey, training for my first Olympic in three and a half weeks, followed by my first 70.3 and five and a half weeks Montrein Blant. Over the last week, I've started to feel really tired.

My workouts this week have felt really hard to get through, and my paces have been slower than usual. I even skipped a run workout this morning, the first run I've skipped all year. I've spoken to my coach, and we plan to take a couple days off and see how I feel after that. I'm also getting blood work to check my hemoglobin and iron levels. I'm interested in to hear Nick's opinion as well

as someone who's training is a big part of his life, but not his day job. So they're also, by the way, four weeks out from defending their PhD. So the question here was, when do you know, uh-oh, I need to back off or I'm going to be doing more bad than good? I mean, it seems like this is exactly that point, right, where your paces are slower at the same effort level. Yeah. But also, I think, is there also a point where you can tell emotionally where you're like, I am so not excited to go out and train today? Yeah, that's your brain trying to tell you, hey, it's not working.

Don't do it. Yeah. And I think in those cases, it's often even a short break can reset you, like one or two days off is all you really need sometimes, unless you're in this super deep hole where your blood levels are not good or whatever. But if it's more of a stress, mental, I need more sleep. I need to not worry about my run session type of fatigue, then you can often recover that fairly quickly. And we experience that often, actually, where you can really tell. while you're doing the activity, if you probably would be better off not doing the activity. There's a lot of barriers, right, that your brain puts up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think the impact of this PhD, that's where we're defending the PhD. Yeah, that can not be underestimated.

I have this, I think I have this sensational a bit more often than Paula does just because I tend to get more stressed about what are we doing with TTL, the clothing launch, the editing the video this week and the thing and the thing. And I tend to accidentally on days that are designed to be easy by our coach fill them completely full of editing and the thing and all that stuff. And then I get to the end of the easy day and it's the hard day. And I feel like I need an easy day.

So I just, like if I could recommend a thing and if it's at all possible for you is when you do these easy days, even if it's, you know, your days off or like you swim in the morning, try to not cram in a whole bunch of studying on top of that. because I don't think it's going to have the same impact as if you watch YouTube or do it like full mental decompression. Like don't put so much pressure on your training when you have this really important thing coming up in a month. That's a bigger life thing. Like just don't worry about triathlon for four weeks.

Do it because you need a break from the studying. Don't do it because you need to follow your training peaks plan and turn everything green. It's case by case and I think you need to let that fire and excitement to train come back. Just don't force. Even if you took two days off and you're like, well, the coach said to take two days off and it's day three and I still cannot fathom putting on my bike shoes, I don't think that it hasn't been fixed yet. Yeah, right, right. Cool. Okay.

Next question here is from Karun. Hi, TTL gang. My husband and I are day oners of the pod and never miss a week. I struggle to sleep well the night before a race. It doesn't matter if it's world championships, a marathon or a local sprint try. I can never get to sleep as I start to play out there. the race in my mind. Once that starts, I'm doomed. I swear sometimes I only get a couple of hours sleep the night before an event. I seem to do okay with this little sleep, but it does give me a lot

of anxiety. How do you sleep the night before the race? We've been together. We've been together for this a lot. Nick, that was the worst ever when we were in Florida for couple's trial sharing a room. Oh, no. I think I actually slept only an hour. A lot of the time before a race, you feel like you only slept one or two hours, but in actual fact, you slept five or six. That's what the o'erring is great for. Yeah, the oar ring actually shows us this because I've had that thought too, like, wow, I didn't close my eyes a single time, but you sleep more than you think. But another thing that I do try to think about, well, I'm lying horizontal with my eyes closed,

even if I'm not actually sleeping, is that I'm still resting. You're still horizontal. I remember you saying that in Florida. You're like, it's still good, right? I'm still just lying down, right? Yeah, yeah. It's 3 a.m. I got to wake up in an hour and a half, but I'm still lying down.

So it's a thing. And also, like, make sure you're sleep leading up to the race, if at all possible, is good. You know, you're in bed more than you normally would be, or you're reading more, you're napping, or something else that can make you feel rested before you get to that point. And then it doesn't matter. You're just fueled by adrenaline and caffeine. That's the age group advice that I've heard. It's not the night before the race that matters. It's the, you know, three or four nights before the race that really kind of make an effect on it.

Do you feel like that rings true for you as well? A little bit, yeah, but it's hard to bank it. It's just like the night before the race, anything could happen. So you just like can't rely on that. So don't think, oh, it's fine if I'm up till 1 a.m. Two days out because it's not race day yet. Yes, yes. A week.

A week. Like recovery is your best friend. But you can't be like, I need to get good sleep tonight. That's like, you just got to like, just got to let it happen. Watch like watch a YouTube video about a completely unrelated thing, you know, or like watch a rom-com, like whatever it is, like do a thing

that like successfully takes your mind off of it before bed. Like I'll let myself actually have my phone in bed and be watching like camera review videos the night before the race until like I,

I wake up and the video still running. Right. Just because it's like, I'm so engaged and I can't think about how the race is going to go. So take pressure off that night before, right? Take pressure off the night before the race.

Try to do, try to think about how the race is going to go and all the logistics and the things you need to run through, like before dinner time, pack up all your stuff, have it all ready to go. Ideally, you've gotten all that little rehearsal in your mind out of the way by the time you lay down. Yeah.

Okay, next question here is from Kinley. Hey, TTR. Quick question, how do you deal with training while traveling? After your crazy adventures to Hawaii, Ibiza, etc., got me thinking about how you fit in training. Obviously, in Ibiza, you were traveling for a race, so tapers and reduced training probably help. When you're traveling for other reasons, though, what does training look like?

I get antsy on planes and just want to move. Do you just use it as a real rest day and move on? Kenley. Yes, but we don't really travel for other reasons. Yeah. I've never traveled as a holiday in my life. But if we do, we tell our coach, like, hey, you know, we're driving for 12 hours to get to Canada for training camp. You know, and then there's not a race on the horizon.

He just gives us that day with like a run or like just a swim. Yeah. And it says all caps do not run after driving. So that's what I find interesting. it's not necessarily because your time is limited, right? It's because of the impact that traveling has on your body. Is that right? Yeah, traveling's not really a rest day.

It's like there's stress involved with catching flights and packing and hauling bags and you're sitting in a cramp, a little airplane, breathing in stale air. It's not a relaxing day. So it's not physiologically a rest day. Yes, you're sitting and you're not actively training. But you do have to treat that as a load. And then when you arrive the next day, you're probably not going to feel great because of that travel day.

So just be easy on yourself, especially if you're traveling to a race, use the day after travel to just loosen up and get out for exercise but not have a hard session right away. And then in terms of training on the road, obviously riding's difficult. I would say running is your best option for kind of getting in some harder workouts or running on a treadmill or being creative that way. It's also the most time efficient of the three. Yeah.

I think it's probably just important to. do whatever you can, but don't feel like you're having to wake up at 4 a.m. before your business meeting, that's really important. And then after the business meet, like, do all the, and like, just you're traveling. Everybody has to do it. It's part of the thing. Do the best you can, but don't. Yeah. Like, just think, okay, this week, I'm doing the best I can. I'm going to be a little bit rested, like my muscles anyway, for next week, and I'm going to nail next week's training. Yeah. Yeah. For Eric and I, it's, like you said, it's different. We're traveling and we're tapering right away, so our volume's reduced anyway, and our only priority in the week is to find good

training locations for those little workouts. So we are. That's your business meeting. Yeah, exactly. When we went to Hawaii, like Nick and I ran on the Queen K and we did what we could outside of shooting, but I was very much like, I'm here now, I'm doing this, and I'm going to be feeling great when I get to altitude next week because I'll be a little bit recovered. That run was so fun, by the way. I was just reminiscing on it today. I love that one. We ran on the queen K. We did the thing. Among other things, we also ran in like crazy, it was an adventure. We ran on the lava fields.

It was fun. Well, Nick, you're in Telly Ride right now. This question's applicable to you. Are you going to train while you're there all week? I'm literally going to go for a hike slash run right after this. I just got new trail running shoes and I am so excited to. So it's not like training. It's more like exercising and just like making the most of being there, being at altitude.

Yep. I told my coach, I said, I'm here and I love the trails here in the mountains. So I'm just going to trail run to taste. Nice. Which is fun. Training to taste. I like that. That is a good quote.

Let the spirit move you. Okay. Next question here is from Sid. This one's for the boys except Flynn. My dreamy husband Carter is racing Iron Man Cordillane in June. He has really hairy legs and I'm desperately trying to convince him to shave them for the race. If not for speed, simply because his leg muscles be popping and I feel like this is a rare opportunity to show them off. I love it.

The reason he doesn't seem to cut it for him, though, is because he doesn't seem to cut it for him, though, is because he doesn't think shaving your legs actually makes a difference over an Ironman distance. So does it make a difference? Unanimous? Yes, yes. So I did some math here.

The Specialized did a test on this in their wind tunnel. And it's about averages amongst five different athletes. It was about 70 seconds per 40K. So over an Iron Man is five minutes and 15 seconds, which is a huge amount of time. How could you not?

An insane amount of time. I mean... Like there's no absolutely no downside here. It's going to, you're going to look good. Yep. You're going to be going faster. If there's any chance there's on a wetsuit swim, you'll be miles faster, not dragging that hair through the water. Yeah.

I mean... And your wife wants it, so... It takes no time. Think about how much time and energy we spend on to get five minutes faster in a race. And you can just shave your legs. I mean, come on. Win, win, win. Just use clippers.

I never actually get the razor out anymore. I just use clippers at like right next to the skin. That's my unsolicited advice too. I used to use the razor and I've just used clippers now. I'm like, this is 95% as good and 100% less annoying. Yeah. There are some hard percentages for you. Okay, last question here is from Carter and it's about swimming.

I'm prepping for Iron Man Cordillane and I'm about five weeks out. I followed Nick's guidance and purchase an online training plan through training peaks and have been following this for at least 25 weeks. I'm at the point now where I'm starting to get bored with swimming. Congratulations, by they're making it 25 weeks in before getting bored with swimming. I still really enjoy all of the run and bike sessions and even really look forward to the five plus hour sessions. However, the swims have become dreadful recently. Nothing has really changed in the swim programming just my motivation.

What do I do? Drag group. Yep, that's 100% the answer. Because I had this too. and when I started swimming with people, it completely alleviated this problem. Because I was talking for 50 minutes. Oh, is that what's happening? I'm just swimming half as much now.

No, no, no, no. I'm just joking. No, it's swimming next to people that you know is so much, it's just so much more motivating. It's so much more fun than swimming by yourself. I would say like the A option is to join a master's group where someone's on deck giving you a workout. You're not going to the pool knowing what it's going to be.

So it's out of your control. And believe me, whatever sets you're doing on your training peaks plan, it's going to make you no faster or slower than what you do in a master's group. Oh, totally. Swimming is swimming. You're in with a group. You're going to go try harder, probably swim more meters and be in there longer than if you're going alone. The B option is to have your session and go to the pool with a friend.

Even if they're not doing your session, I find if you're swimming beside someone you know, the motivation's that much higher. You're just like in it together, both doing the thing and who cares if you're different speeds. that in itself can be. Bring your dad to the pool with you and be like, dad, I'm swimming for an hour. You can hang out in the hot tub for an hour. You got some accountability. And you think maybe he's like,

he's not going to let you get out early or whatever. That's right. And like, if the sessions are that boring and dreadful, look up a different swim plan on Google. Because maybe you just need some spicy variety. Maybe, maybe. Like when I start and it's like five times 400, I'm like, no, I'm not doing that.

But I doubt, I think it's just, it gets stale. And swimming with, my initial fix for this was to swim with music. And I know you guys are not going to be a fan of that. But that did help me initially, but it's nothing like swimming with people. That is the best.

I'm not a fan of swimming with music. There's just no system that isn't wildly cumbersome and ridiculous. Yeah. Lionel does it. I think Lionel swims with music. Yeah. Relying on it,

100% of the time is dangerous because you can't race with it. So it's good to learn to exercise and silence. But if you're getting into this point where it's like, I don't even want to go to the pool. then sometimes you can pull out that tool. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay, well, those are all our questions. This is going to be our longest podcast ever, but I think it was one of our best ever. We had a great weekend. We had a lot of fun. It was great waking up in the morning and turning on the Iron Man broadcast on Sunday

and seeing Paul out in front. The people, the announcers just being like, she just looks so great on the run right now. She is just, no one's putting any time into her. I'm like, oh, yes. Thank God. It's great. This is a great weekend.

Yeah, you don't want to be watching a race that's like coming down to the wire. Gosh, that is stressful. God, like ADMO. Oh, God. No, please. Yeah. And like, I guess I started, I started at 630 my time, which was 3.30 your time.

So by the time you tuned in. Yes. You had like 5K ago. There was no stress left. I had like, I had like 100 texts from Eric. Be like, dude, wake up. Do you even love triathlon? What are you doing?

Paul is crushing. And then Eric and I FaceTimed as we were both watching the broadcast. And we saw you win together. Oh, nice. That's good. That's good. Cool. Well, thanks for sitting through.

that, everybody. I hope that we lived up to the expectations of those who like listening to race recaps. For those of you who didn't, we also had some good questions. We had a full podcast outside of that. So, Nick, have a good week and tally ride. And what are we doing? Oh, it's my birthday on Friday. Yay. Finally 21. I can't believe it. I'm going to be 34, which is still pretty young. Yep. But we definitely should have a baby in the next year. Wow. That's what she wants her birthday present to me. My mom had me when she was 35 and I'm a very, very healthy boy.

Big boned. Thanks for listening, everybody. Ciao. We'll catch up next week without race recaps. All questions next week. So send your questions into that triathlon life brand at gmail.com. You can also subscribe to the podcast. Incorrect.

They have to go to that triathlonlife.com slash podcast. Oh, yeah. Nick, well, Nick usually does that part. Thank you to our podcast subscribers that keep this podcast at free. You too can be a podcast subscriber and submit your own questions at that triathlon life.com slash podcast. Thank you, Nick. Nailed it.

Got it. It's almost too scripted that people are not going to listen. Dude, I didn't even read that. That's just in my brain. Oh, okay, okay. Gotta mess it up. Yeah. Yeah, you're right.

All right. Chat with you guys next week. Bye. Later.