That Triathlon Life Podcast - Power pedals for triathletes, crit racing, Eric and Paula get married, and more!

Episode Date: August 15, 2024

This week, we start by talking about the magic that was Eric and Paula's wedding, and then we move on to your questions. This week we talked about:Racing when feeling unpreparedOther potential race distances for triathlon at the OlympicsRiding etiquette on a paved rail trailThe income economics of being a pro triathleteWhat power meter to use for an outdoor bike, and a trainer bikeRacing 70.3 as a 56-year-old with some concerns over heart safetyWhy Paula likes crit racingRacing XTERRA World Championships, and whether it's worth it or notA big thank you to our podcast supporters who keep the podcast alive! To submit a question for the podcast, and to become a podcast supporter, head over to ThatTriathlonLife.com/podcast

Hello everyone. Welcome to That Traathlon Live podcast. I'm Paula Finley. I'm Eric Loggerstrom. I'm Nick Goldston. And we are back to you after taking a week off. We're really sorry about that. We sort of half-ass tried to do it, but then decided not to. But we're back here this week. Eric and I are back home. Nick's back home. We just spent a wonderful weekend altogether, probably the best weekend of my life anyway.

And we're so happy to be back here, back into the groove. Not going to lie, it's a little bit tough coming back to real life after getting married. We're having our wedding. For those of you who are new here, Paula and I are professional triathletes, and we are now married. We have not been for the past, we've been together for five years, and we just got around getting married.

Nick didn't get married to us, but he was there. He was the groomsmen. He was a real good man. And he's a professional musician, which is why hopefully this podcast sounds good, although the aftermath of our wedding was that Eric and I are both quite sick. I can't undo that, unfortunately. It turns out that if you hug about 100 people, a hundred times each, and then stay up until midnight, four nights in a row when you normally go to bed at nine, that's a great recipe for getting sick. The night of the wedding, we went to bed,

we got home at 1.30 and then we went in the hot tub. Yeah. Yolo. We got an Airbnb with hot tub. You got to use it once. Yeah. So yeah, we probably deserve this, but we didn't hug a hundred people. It was a relatively small wedding, I would say. And the tough thing about weddings is like as the week came up, I was like, oh shit, we should have invited this person and this person. I was like thinking of people that are really important to us that we didn't invite. And that was probably my least favorite part of wedding planning. But otherwise, everything went smoothly.

And they say like your wedding day is going to be the best day of your life. And I thought that was so cliche and how could that be? But it truly is. best day ever of my life and I don't think anything I'll top it ever. It was so good that I keep saying can we have another wedding?

Yeah, let's get married again. Yeah, we've realized now maybe this is why people like to have house parties all the time. We never really got it or anything and after this like, man, should we start having parties or something? It's fun to get dressed up

and eat fancy food and dance and have good music. It is not fun to plan on the front end. That was a bit stressful. as I'm sure anyone who's ever gotten married can attest. But once it's all said and done, man, it's awesome. I don't think I was ever really that stressed about it. It was all me. It was all me.

We had help from one of our good friends who was like our wedding planner, and he really diluted the stress. I cannot imagine that having happened without all of his planning. Without Corey, yes. Just wedding planner in general. I think we can highly recommend that. It's kind of like when people, ask on the podcast, like, what is my money best spent doing for an upgrade? It's a coach.

Yeah. If you want your money best spent for a wedding, it's a wedding planner. You didn't mention this yet, but I think something that was kind of nice about the wedding day is that the ceremony was in the morning, outdoors, in this beautiful place that was special to you guys. I won't go into more detail as to why. But then we had the reception at night. And in the middle of the day, Eric, you went for a mountain bike ride. Is that right? Yeah. I mean, what we wanted to do by separating the morning ceremony from the evening reception

is give everybody, or like, I guess, force everybody coming to the wedding to go out and actually experience our favorite place in Canmore. And we had like made a list of suggestions to go do this hike or do this bike ride or do this thing. and we sort of split up. Paula went and did some things with some friends, and I went with some friends who can mountain bike. And it was, I don't know, it was just really, really cool. I think our entire mission with the whole thing

was just get our favorite people together in our favorite place, have a fun time, and I feel like we absolutely nailed that. Well, the only tragic thing I could think of is people that don't do morning ceremony and evening reception because it goes by so quickly. I mean, for us, I don't think it went by too quickly. It happened over the course of an entire day, which was amazing. And I kept thinking, like, oh, my gosh, we still got so much left to do.

We get to go to the reception now. Like, it didn't go by in the blink of an eye. And I think that was one of the really nice things about kind of splitting it up. And in the morning, we had like a coffee truck and donuts and the quietest time of day at that park. Like, nobody was there. It was super good weather. Went for a hike in the middle of the day without messing up my makeup or my makeup or my hair, and then the evening was like an entire other event. So I don't know, anyone who's

planning an upcoming thing, that might be a fun thing to try. If you can, highly recommend it. The midday activity is, as, was such a cool, yeah. And it works for the crew that was there because none of our friends are so sedentary. No, no, I mean, like set on how they look, that they can go and like get ready in five minutes for another thing. Right. Yeah. It's People used it as an excuse to have two different outfits. If outfits are a thing that you're into. You're welcome. Yeah, like the day before the wedding, we had to do certain things or whatever.

And pretty much every single one of our friends was out hiking or mountain biking or running, whatever the thing was and getting up first thing in the morning. And it was super cool. It felt like us and our group of friends. I actually cannot think of any way that we could have made any better. I was thinking about that today, from my perspective at least, not being one of you two, but being close to the center of the wedding. I can't think of anything that could have gone better.

It really went off the way I imagined you guys would have wanted it to go. Totally. So that is that. It's official. You don't have to worry about us all splitting up anytime soon. Yeah. I'm still going by Paula Finley. I did not change my last name.

Yeah, we're keeping our stage names. Yeah, we won't go into any more detail about the wedding. And like in my mind I wanted to kind of keep it a personal. thing, but being such a public in the triathlon world anyway, couple, it's impossible to not acknowledge it on our podcast. So thank you to everyone who sent their congratulations and their whatever. We really appreciate it. It was fun to share some photos. And it's crazy because we have so many amazing pictures. And I'm like, is it, what's that word? Where you're like obsessed with yourself? Self-indulgent. Self-indulgent to like keep posting pictures of yourself on

your wedding day, but I'm like, these are so good. I shouldn't keep sharing them. No, I think it's allowed. Well, we'll share a few more, and we still haven't even gotten barely any of them yet. But yeah, we won't go on anymore about that, but we should probably do what the point of this podcast is and answer questions, eh, Nick? That's a great idea. That's a great idea. And part of how this podcast keeps going is that we have podcast supporters. We thank you very much to our podcast supporters. And this week, the podcast supporter that we randomly picked to win something is actually going to win Paula's wedding dress signed by Paula

and the bouquet that she used in the wedding. No, I'm just kidding. You're going to get a TTL bottle and TTL socks. Congratulations. Leah Ty Savard on this very special episode. You are our winner, so thank you so much, Leah,

for being a podcast supporter. You can become a podcast supporter and submit your questions for the podcast at ThattriathlonLife.com slash podcast. Okay, that's it. That's the housekeeping. First question here. Good question. Hi, friends. Can you please share a time when you went into a race feeling unprepared? What was your mindset? How did you make it a meaningful experience asking for a friend? Winky face. This is Rachel from Hamilton, Ontario. So you guys are both a little sick right now. So for example, have you ever gotten into a race being sick?

Yeah, but I wouldn't classify that as being unprepared. I'm just thinking of you, Paula, last year at TT Worlds when you were so sick. Yeah, I was not an ideal condition on that day, but I was completely prepared for it. Yeah, you were fit. I think that a situation where I've been unprepared for a race is where I've been injured leaving into it and haven't done enough running or any running. And every single time that happened, it was an absolutely miserable experience and I should not have done the race. So my advice for this is if you feel unprepared, I really don't.

think you should race. Maybe that's really negative and you should just go slower and finish and that's better. But in our situation where there's eyes on us and our living depends on it, personally, I don't think it's worth racing if you're not ready. Yeah. Yeah, I would agree. I think it is different for an age group athlete, but the way in that, which it is not different is if you can tell, if you tell yourself going in, I'm just going to chill and

whatever, I know I'm not prepared. But then even after saying that, you get upset and are trying to hold yourself to some unrealistic expectation after the fact. So if you truly have the ability to say, I'm going party pace, I'm hanging out at the back, I'm talking to the maximum number of people, and I'm just going to enjoy going to this destination, then maybe a type of person who can do that.

But really be clear with yourself that you're putting yourself in that headspace. Yeah, that's a great point. And there's probably just people who can do that and people who can't do that. People who cannot take it easy. Yeah. It depends really a little bit

your experience prior to this? Are you a really, really high-performing amateur athlete who dedicates a lot of their life to this, or are you a little bit new to it? And it's one of your first few races, and really the goal is to have fun anyway. Those are two different things. So depending on your mindset leading in, I think it can be fine. But if you have the option to defer to sometime when you might feel more prepared, that could be an option too. Yeah, it's funny. You said that because I was thinking about times where I have been like this and not been prepared

and then went into the race with what Eric was talking about, the mindset of I'm just going to party pace, just get to the finish. And I was able to do that and just keep it chill. And those are some of my favorite race. The emotions during the race were some of my favorite times. But now, I don't know if I were to do that again. One of those was my first 70.3.

The other one was my first marathon. Now, I don't know if that would be enjoyable, you know, like you were saying. It's inherently a hard thing no matter what, even if you're going easy. Just getting through it is really hard. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if this is a good time to say this or not, but I will not be racing Ironman, Wisconsin for this exact reason. Because I don't feel mentally or physically like I'm going to give it what it deserves.

And I guess I could go there and try to get through it, but that's not what I want to do. I want to give it the respect that it deserves. I think that's a perfect occasion to bring it up. And I would say especially for an Iron Man. Yeah. I'd say for the short of the race, the more you can get through it with less preparation. But if you want to be able to even complete an Iron Man with some form of sense of accomplishment, you want to have some really good prep going in.

Yeah. I don't want anything. physical or mental to be stopping me from enjoying that experience that I have kind of envisioned, at least me, for a better part of a decade now. Yeah, yeah. I think that we've, we've very, you know, all of us have echoed several times now that this is very situation in person dependent. So yeah, look inside. Look inside. Look inside. Well said. Next question here is from Sean. The Olympic triathlon events seem to be huge successes this year. Go Nash. Would there ever be a possibility for more distances in the

Olympics, T-100, 70.3, maybe a full. I know there's always backlash towards how triathletes are chosen. Would this alleviate that as well or make things more complicated, Sean? This is such a good question because we do see other events like the walk run and they have multiple distances. There's a 50K distance. How come triathlon, I mean, we have the relay now, but why not have a non-draft 70.3 distance or a T-100? Right. So in racewalking, they have different distances? Yeah. I thought it was just like the 50K.

I think there's a 50K and a 20K, but I'll check right now. Isn't it what? Okay. I think the problem you run into here is that that adds 50 or 60 more athletes to the Olympic Games roster and you're not bringing the same athletes for a 100K distance as you are for an Olympic distance. Yeah. And how they've added more events and medals to triathlon is bringing the relay in.

using the same athletes. Yeah. That was a major thing they were talking about when they were testing the mixed team relay prior to the Olympic Games was this is the only way

that we can get more medals and more competition in triathlon without increasing number of athletes that are going to be in the Olympic Village and need to be brought over by different countries and everything, which I'm not sure why that's a huge deal

except for clearly they think introducing breakdancing is more valuable than like different disciplines of triathlon. Yeah, I don't necessarily think it's a good idea or necessary. A lot of the reason we switched over to 70.3 was to we kind of lived out our Olympic career

and we were looking to take more ownership of what happened. We weren't kind of in, when you're trying to make it to the Olympics, you are kind of dictated about what the Federation says. And it completely changes the experience and how your career plays out. So the option for these Olympic distance athletes to jump over to 70.3 and Iron Man after their Olympic career is over,

I think is a really unique thing about the sport and not a lot of other Olympic sports have that kind of sister sport, but very different in a lot of ways that you can go and continue to have a good professional career in after your Olympic race is over. Yeah. This also would necessitate an entirely new, venue or at least a new course.

This is more akin to like open water swimming versus swimming in the pool. There's like two completely different things where you can hold a multi-lap Olympic distance race versus a T-100 distance race is, I mean, these are two different places and a whole new set of things. And some people say that like the longer races are more boring, but I would don't agree with that because I watched the entire road race for the women and that was hours. I watch the marathon, that's a few hours. Yeah, but stuff can happen.

Like, nothing's happening. That's like moves that might be brought back, like early on a T-100 race. Like, you kind of have a pretty good idea. Everybody's on the red line the whole time. It's not like packs and tactics like cycling. By the way, the 50K racewalk is no longer distance. Tokyo was the last time they did it.

So this Olympics, they don't have it anymore. There's a bunch of, I'm looking it up now. There's a bunch of distances that are defunct. The 3K walk. 3.5K walk, 10k walk, 10k walk, and 10 mile. We're all prior Olympic distance racewalks. Now there's only the 20K and the mixed marathon relay. I mean, theoretically, if the reason that we were, you know, saying that we couldn't add more triathletes because of like total space and number of athletes on the roster, if we got break dancing and whatever, the other sports that have been added

this year coming in, you know, surfing is relatively new. They got to take, get rid of some. And ultimately, I think this kind of does come down to viewership. If the 3K racewalk is polling, if, you know, 10 people are watching that relative to 10,000 people or whatever, like they got to bring in something else. The Olympic Committee has got to make money. It's a business. Yeah. Oh, it's funny. They got to make a lot of money. That's funny. I don't ever think I thought of the Olympic Committee as a money-making thing. I kind of see it as like above that, but you're right. Let me just give you a hint. The athletes are not getting the visa money. Yeah, I got it. Yeah, right. Of course. They're not getting the Delta money.

Right, right, right. Well said. Well said. Okay. Next question here is from Michael. If riding alone on a paved rail trail, paved rail trail is not a thing, right? That's it. Yeah. That's it. Are you aware of rails to trails? No. Initiative. I guess this isn't a thing in California, but definitely on the west side of the country, and I don't know how much on the east side of country, they take all the railroads that have been decommissioned, rip up all the railroad ties. I think step one is they just turn them into a gravel path, and then eventually they pave them. So there's like 150 or 120 mile long one in Cordo Lane. There's one that goes from downtown Portland out to where we used to live in Troutale.

That's like 30 miles. This is like a program, like a government type program. Wow, no, I'd never heard of that. Yeah, they're all over the place. Wow. Okay, there you go. Okay, so let me start this again. If riding alone on a paved rail trail and you come up upon another rider who is riding at a good pace,

is it okay to stay behind them as long as you're not on. their back wheel without asking permission. Fairly new to riding and want to follow riding etiquette, Michael. So what does that mean riding behind them but not on their back wheel? Like 10 feet? I don't know. No, he's saying, is it okay to ride on their wheel without asking them? No, he said as long as you are not on their back wheel without asking them.

No, he said as long as you are not on their back wheel without asking them. Oh, so you, okay. So the situation here is that you ask them? Yes. Let's just go Let's just like go through a couple If then scenarios Because this can get interesting

In a whole bunch of different ways Rail Trail etiquette I would say if you roll up behind somebody Why are you Why not just past them? Yeah you're going faster than them Yeah The bigger issue is if someone comes around you

And then you hop on their wheel And you are annoying That is a great time to say Hey Can I I'm just going to hang out back here You know whatever Like acknowledge it in some way

way so that they're at least aware of your existence. They don't slam on their brakes for something pointing out things to you and you give them the opportunity to, you know, be in their own space. Especially when you want to do this is when two people come by you and they might be having a conversation or they're doing their own, you know, there's a dynamic already going on here. You want to make sure that you ask permission because they might be talking about how, you know, whatever some life stuff going on. I would say the bigger issue is just safety. Like if someone is sitting on your wheel and you don't know it and you have to break to turn or you cruise for a second or whatever and they run into

the back of you, that's a danger for that the rider in front. Yep, good for everybody. Now, now, third thing, let's say you have just been passed by said person that's come by and you've acknowledged or, you know, maybe you're not trying to sit on their wheel or whatever and then they slow down. Now what do you do? This happens to us. I wouldn't say regularly, but it definitely happens. Where somebody does the thing to make an effort, and we're not slowing down. We're going the exact same speed, continuing to go. And now we've got this potential yo-yo situation.

We're going to have to repass them, and then it gets super weird. I see. What would you do, Nick? Well, I want to present you with a scenario that I was in yesterday. Nick would just start talking to them. I would tell them. I'll ask for their life story. So this would happen to me yesterday.

I had 40 times 30 seconds on, 30 seconds off. And I did it up, Manderville, that you guys are well aware of that climb here. No, that's not 40 minutes. It's not. I had to, in fact, start earlier and then do the rest of them coming down using my breaks. Anyway, so there was a guy in front of me,

and he was going just a little bit faster than my recovery pace. So a couple of times he passed me and I passed him, and I didn't really know what the right thing to do was. Now, my Wahoo, like, clearly is like, beep, beep, you know, like, it's obvious that someone is doing intervals, but I, a few times didn't want to pass him as I was finishing my hard interval just for him to then pass me again. So I kind of, like, stayed right on his wheel until my interval was over. Do you think, without saying anything to him, do you think that is inappropriate? I kind of would wave at him when I would pass him, but. Yeah, I think that's,

I think that's well handled. That's what I would do. I would also go as far as to, like, finish an interval one second early or put on the brakes for a couple of seconds just to keep it from being weird just in case you know that person's having a hard day and this is messing with their experience and now my question I had for you guys is the rail trail thing here is it it's dirt right it's like some kind of dirt situation I said it's paved they're paved a lot of the time oh okay oh paid sorry paved it says paved right there because I was wondering if you think the dynamics or the etiquette changes if we're talking about dirt? No.

Same thing. Yeah. Okay. Cool. I mean, obviously, like, drafting is less effective on dirt. Rolling resistance is a higher factor. Right. Right.

Great. Great question, Michael. And now I know about rail trails. I'm sure I'm going to get lit up in the comments with the people telling me that I'm an ignorant idiot. Sorry. We don't have them here. Okay. Next question is from Simon from Winnipeg.

Simon says, I'm curious about the economics business aspect of being a pro triathlete. What are your income sources? What percentage of your total income comes from each one of those sources? For example, prize money, sponsorship, etc. To the extent you feel comfortable, I'd be interested to hear about specific dollar values. Oh, he wants to know how much money we make? Absolutely not. Yeah, not specific dollar values, but I'd say percentages is interesting to the extent you guys are willing to talk about it.

Yeah, I mean, we haven't sat down like, broken it out super in depth lately and it's always changing. It depends on how much money you win and how the sponsor negotiations go and everything. But I think we can throw out like ballpark percentages. Yeah. Yeah, maybe like 40% of our income comes from TTR, podcast, selling stuff, 40% from our base contracts and 20% from prize money. I would say that that got shifted a bit when T100 came along for sure. Like I would say that breakdown is probably pretty accurate prior to T100.

Well, just the fact that we get a base salary from T100. Yeah. And there's a bunch of prize money. But you can't, it's, we don't really think of like the actual prize money, or at least I don't, that you win as part of like the calculation. Yes, you can break it down at the end of the year. But we certainly try to look at like our sponsorship contracts and now whatever. TTL generates and then

Paul is T100 base salary as like here's where we're at here's where we're at if we win no money all year long we're not going to lose the house we're not going to Flynn can eat

we can eat and all that stuff and how do you think this differs for an athlete who is let's say not top 20 do those percentages shift or do they stay the same and just decrease for them it's way heavier on prize money and bonuses

yeah they might not even have a base salary and they might get a certain amount for winning a race or second or third and then the prize money on top of that. So it becomes a little bit less secure, a little bit more pressure to perform. Whereas we've kind of created this situation where we don't have to win in order to make a decent living at this anymore. The way sponsorship, you know, a sponsor relationship typically goes is you start out by getting just product. and you'll maybe have a bonus structure.

So if you win Iron Man Canada, you'll get $5,000. Otherwise, you're just getting free tires. And then the next year after that, the relationship is probably grown. You've now won Iron Man Canada, and the tire company might say, here's $10,000 just to be you and represent our brand. And if you win Iron Man Canada again, same bonus.

And if you win Iron Mancona, huge bonus. That's way, way, way bigger. And certain athletes, depending on how they feel like their season might might lump it more on the bonus side of things and take a little bit less money on the guaranteed base salary hedging their bets that they're going to have a great season. Gambling on themselves a little bit. Yeah.

It's such a grind to get to the point where you're making money. Yeah. Like my pathway to the sport was completely different. So I for sure don't think I would have worked my way up the ladder like this and had the patience to if I hadn't had kind of this ITU. breakout career where I made more money back then than I did now and I saved it. So through those years of like a little bit more struggle where I didn't have as many sponsors, I felt secure.

But if you were just kind of like riding the line of bankruptcy or debt, I don't know. It would be really hard for me to keep on doing the sport. Oh yeah. I mean, there's so few professional triathletes who can actually just make a living fully off of the sport by themselves. So it's hard for almost everyone. Yeah, I think a lot of people have to coach, like have a supplemental income somehow or have a significant other that has a more conventional job. Do you guys feel like sponsorship money increases linearly with how well you perform as a triathlet? Or does it taper off a bit?

Like the top 10 people all kind of get the same contracts? Or is it that like the difference between first place contracts? Let's talk PTO rankings. First place and fifth place is actually really big. First place is getting 10 times more. Not 10 times more, but I'd say the people ranked first or second in the world are getting the biggest. And then the next eight are kind of maybe similar. I'd say they might be making 10 times more 12th place.

Yeah, got it. And I think of this more, it's, who knows, we'll see if this changes thanks to the T100 and the PTO being involved. but I think it's a bit of a S curve, right? It's a bit of an S or a linear curve. And then all of a sudden, if you've won Kona or been like second at Kona, it just shoots up.

It's like a completely different atmosphere zone. And if you're not, even if you won 70.3 worlds four times and you're always consistently there. There's this obsession with having the Kona Iron Man World Champion because that's highly marketable for a company to claim that. Do you think it's highly marketable because all triathletes pay so close attention to it?

Or is it because it actually spills over to things outside of triathlon as well? It's recognized even to the lane. A little bit. I mean like Chelsea was on Rich Roll for example. Exactly. And everybody listens to Rich Roll. So yeah, it definitely has reached beyond just the triathlon market. Yeah.

It's kind of crazy because like Chelsea won Kona and she got on Rich Roll and like some of these mainstream the New York Times, these transcendent news outlets took notice and she got that kind of exposure. It didn't necessarily translate to, oh, now she's got a million Instagram followers or, you know, something like that. But yeah, all of a sudden you're potentially in front of a whole bunch of other eyeballs. And people are listening to your story more. Yeah. And I think there's like this rising tide situation as well where now you're the Kona champion. and like your bike brand is going to want to be promoting you like crazy.

So your apparel company recognizes that their apparel is now going to be showing up in a whole bunch more places and they're more likely to fight to keep you just for that incidental exposure that you'll be getting. That momentum is just crazy. Yeah. It comes with pressure and all that too. Of course. Of course. Of course.

Okay. Next question here is from Steve from Ireland. I use my own old road bike on my Wahoo Kicker Corps and I borrow my dad. and I borrow my dad's road bike for races. My dad's bike has cleat pedals and no power meter. My bike has flat pedals with toe straps. My dad's shoes don't fit perfectly so I was thinking of getting my own cycling shoes,

and I would then also need to buy my own new pedals for those shoes, I guess. Should I get pedals with built-in power meters so that I could use those pedals and shoes on both my dad's bike and my own? Is it easy to swap pedals on and off a bike? Can you recommend a brand and model for power meter, and cycling shoes. Sorry, I know that's a few questions. Love the pod.

You guys rock. P.S. Nick, I love how well... Oh, that's not important. Okay. So, pedals versus, like, crank-based power meters versus whatever. What is your... First of all, what is your general feeling

on where the power meter on a bike can or should be placed? I don't think there's a right or a wrong answer. We've seen a lot of different things. We've seen hub-based. We've seen pedal-based. We've seen spindle-based and then spider, you know, in between the gears base.

I personally prefer in the crank, in the spider. That's what SRAM uses for Cork. But you can also look into something like the Powerlink Zero pedals from Wahoo, which, yes, allow you to swap between bikes. I haven't personally looked into lately, you know, the relative difficulty of switching those back and forth between bikes just because we have a prior relationship with Cork. but my sister had some of the Garmin pedals back in the day

and I do remember she had to have like a gigantic torque wrench and they had to be torqued just right otherwise there would become inaccurate. Do you know, Nick, if that's the case with the... Yeah, that is times of old. That is no longer the case. Even the Garmin, the newer Garmin ones are not so sensitive. I had those first Garmin ones as well and it was, yeah,

it was so annoying. And you had to tighten them by the way so, so hard. Yeah. Like, which kind of leads me to something I was hoping you would talk about, which is how tightly do you have to tighten pedals on a bike anyway? You know, like I had, I had to, me and Jackie Herring's husband, Mark had double team the heck side of the pedal and then the like, I don't know what you would call the other side. The kind of like pedal wrench side of the pedal to get those pedals off of Paula's dad's bike. Yeah. Do pedals need to be that tight?

Right, right, of course. They don't get tighter over time. I would say that's too tight personally. I think most mechanics that work in the shop are very afraid of getting sued and having a pedal spin-off, but I have personally experimented with going pretty loose,

like 10 Newton meters on my pedals over the years, and I've never had one even loosen up, let alone spin-off or have any sort of an issue, and I can get the pedals off. Paula can get the pedals off when she has to fly by herself. That's what I do. I'm not going to say, recommend any amount of tightness, but you don't have to get a freaking silver bag gorilla on him.

And if in this situation where he has the kicker core, would there be a benefit to putting those pedals on that bike taking him on and off, or should he just use the power meter that is built into the kicker core? I mean, if you're going to be needing to get a pair of pedals, it sounds like he needs to use the pedals on two different locations anyway, just so he can use his new bike shoes. Right. But that being said, if for some reason you wanted to get two pairs of pedals and one of them is not power, what I would do is I would do a test ride of some sort or some sort of a ramp test and look and compare

how accurate are the pedals versus the core and get some sort of confidence in knowing that 200 watts on here is like 207 watts on here, generally speaking. But I don't think it's that big of a deal to swap the pedals back and forth between the buttons. I think it's way better than not having power. Yeah. Oh, for sure. for sure. And DC Rainmaker makes a tool where you can upload two files and it will compare, two power files

that were recorded at the same time and it will compare how accurately or how they follow each other. So you just do it once and then you know it's like, oh, it's 10 watts off or they're identical. And you can solve that issue pretty easily. Yeah, that's great. If you just

really want to go that hard. Yeah, I did when I first got the Garmin pedals because I had a power meter of my bike and I kind of wanted to see how different they were. Okay, next question here is from Tom. Tom is 56 years old. He says, I did triathlons throughout my 30s for about 10 years. I was always a middle of the pack participant.

I've been away from it for about 15 years, but have gotten the itch to get back into it. I've stayed in decent shape, but not triathlon shape. I've read a number of articles about guys in their middle age dying in the swim from unknown causes. Some of these deaths can be attributed to biting off more than one can chew, but most are experienced fit triathletes. I'm not asking for medical advice. Good, because we will not give it. And I know the thing to do is to get checked out by a doctor,

but do any of you have any perspective on this topic? Your favorite 56-year-old uncle said he was going to do a half next year, would you have any reservations do the occasional death in the swim, or would you just say go for it, Tom? Man, that's a great question. I know, I kind of strongly believe that death can come for any of us at any time. struck by lightning, you know, a car could veer off the road. You can't look over your shoulder 100% of the time. So you just, you have to kind of make decisions like, and what is the risk

factor here? How risky is it really? What can I do inside of my power to mitigate the risks? And, and then make the decision. If I had a 56 year old uncle that was going to do this, I would definitely make sure 56 year old uncle did a good amount of swimming and also practice open water. You must go in some sort of body of water that you can't see the bottom. That's a little bit cold. Figure it out even if you have to drive two hours to get to a lake. Practice that. Because I think that's what it is for a lot of people.

Even if you're experienced, that's a stressful situation, both for your body. You've just like you've been preparing for this race. Your body is super jacked up. And then you just go from straight up to horizontal immediately. Yeah, it does seem to happen in the swim. Even though like cardiovascularly, you would think it's the less taxing because your heart rate is the lowest. That's where we see all these men having, and it usually is heart attacks.

It's not, I mean, they said unknown causes here, but it seems to be usually heart attacks that happen. Yeah, I'd definitely also get checked out. Like, why not? We should all get checked out by a doctor periodically anyway. Yeah. We've said this before, but in Italy, you have to before you race triathlon. You have to get the, they put you through like a stress test. Like an EKG or something.

I'd be super curious to know, like, the rate of, if there was a way to, to extrapolate the rate of deaths of Italian versus 55 in triathons versus other countries. Oh, that's interesting. As a result of that. I have a friend who is Italian, a triathlete, and a statistician. So I'm going to ask him to put together those details if he has them. Gio, my friend Gio, I'm going to get him on.

He listens to the podcast too. So he's very entertaining. I ride bikes with him in L.A. Right now he's in Italy. But we're going to do Phona doctor on that one. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, so what about you, Paula? If your 56-year-old uncle said he was going to do a half next year, would you have any reservations?

Guys, I don't think 56 is that old. It's not, but these are, that is within the age of the people that you see kind of having these mystery heart attacks on the swim. I would not have any reservations, no. It's such a small percentage. And if they want to do it, I mean, they're probably going to train for it a bit. And I agree with you guys that it's a good idea to get checked. It's not like, oh, wow, big red flag. Don't do it because you're 56.

I do wonder how many of these people didn't get checked versus just kind of went for it, even if they were fit. Even if you do to get checked, sometimes you can't predict this from, it doesn't mean that you're guaranteed to not have an issue. No, that's true. This happens to young people too. Young healthy people. Yeah.

Tom, we support you. As long as you get checked, we want you to be fast and fit and racing. Next question is from Ben. Hi, TTR crew. Question for Paula. Can you explain crit racing and also why you chose to do it? It seems like cycling has a much higher chance of crashes, and weren't you worried about that happening?

Thanks, Ben. So yeah, Paula, you went from, like, you didn't even do a road race. You went into, like, crit racing, which is... Well, there's just no road races to do. But, yeah, there's crit races like a mile from our house. I used to do crit racing in Boulder when I was coached by Neil Henderson. I was injured running a lot and there was really good crit races to do every week in Boulder. So I did them every week and I think I got really good at riding that way.

Good practice in the group. And of course, after I did a couple crits in Bend, Gwen Jorgensen crashes in a crit and breaks their collarbone. And of course, that's a risk that's higher than if you're just going in training alone. But is it worth the risk? I don't know. Like, it kind of depends what your goals are and where you are in your life and in your career. I just needed a different stimulus, and I thought it was really good, actually, for my cornering practice. And it was fun.

So I don't come across fun things in training as often anymore. So I don't regret it. But I do think that you do have to approach it with, this is a risk, that this could happen. I could crash. Not because of my own lack of skills, but because of someone else's. I think that's where the worry comes in. That's scary. Well, it's multifaceted.

It's like other people's abilities, your ability to avert, to react to it, just luck. A whole bunch of things. But Paula did jump in a relatively, she did the women's race, which had, what, 15, 20 people in it? Yeah, both of the women's crits I did. I ended up riding solo. So that was zero danger. Right. But still forced me to, like, get a really good 40-minute workout.

Mm-hmm. Trying to, you know, just get a high power. But after the first woman's crud, I decided to jump in the men's race, which they disallowed me from doing the following week. Oh, really? Why? Do you think so many? Because I was the wrong category. Even if you're a man or a woman, you can't just get in, go into a cat three men's crate if you're a cat one woman or whatever. But you were able to stick with them, weren't you? Yeah, I finished like in the top five or something of that race. But it was a lot more tactical, a lot more surgy. Had my highest five seconds. and power of the year. It was a really good workout. And my, I was just thinking stay at the front of this race. I think you can avoid a lot of risk by staying towards the front of the race. And that's what I tried to do in the men's crit. Anyway, the crits are over now, so I won't do

them anymore this year. And of course, across my mind that I could crash. But ran it by my coach and got a little better at cornering. Eric, do you feel like you'd want to do one of those crits? I'm kind of surprised you haven't already. It's just not worth it for me. The potential for crashing. Yeah. Let's take a note of what's happening here.

Paula's like, yeah, it's worth it for me at the training stimulus, even with the danger. Yeah, how is it not worth it to you? I just, I don't. The potential fun and whatever that I would get out of it is not worth the potential risk. Right. Like for me going mountain biking and bombing down a hill really fast, like that is a worthwhile risk to worse crash. for how much fun it is and for potentially whatever racing that I might do with it.

But I am not going to be doing any ITU racing. I'm not going to be doing any semi-professional or professional cycling in the future. So I absolutely loved racing crits and circuit races. I did it twice a week when I was a kid when I was training with draft legal racing in mind. But now it's just, I don't know, it's not lighten my fire at this very moment. Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. It is scary to watch your friends race those races. It is scarier to watch than it is to do them, I will say.

When you're in it and you're just in the flow and you're working on focusing on what's going on, it's completely different than standing on the side watching it. And the field that I would have to be in, the cat one-toos is like a night and day difference from the four or five in terms of the rate at which they're cornering, how hard people are jockeying and moving around. like everybody's good for the most part and has more experience, but the consequences are high. You think there's more crashing and more danger in the one-toes?

No, I'm just saying it's faster, and if you do crash. It's like an avalanche thing where they say like, this is probably not going to go. But if it goes, it's going big versus this has got a high chance of going, but it'll be a small slide. Right. That's the difference. I don't want, when I'm riding a bike, I don't want any slides.

I like the rubber beneath me. Yeah. Okay. Next question here from Matt in Ontario. Oh, Kira and Matt. Hello, Paula, Eric, Nick and Flynn. I recently qualified for Exterra Age Group Worlds and was wondering. First of all, congratulations.

That's awesome. Nice. One, is it worth going? We can afford it without too much impact, but we have lots of other events we are interested in. And then we'll get to two after this, actually. So what do you think? Is it worth going? Eric, you and I were just talking about this yesterday.

I mean, what is anything worth? Is a Lamborghini worth it? You know, it depends on the person. Right, right. It depends on, you know, yeah, how much of an object, how much money do you have, how much money is this relative to how much money you have? And I have not done Exeterre Worlds in the Italy location. I did it in Maui, and then they moved it.

I think it's a really cool experience if you're going to do it. an Xtera, it is definitely the highest level of production and fanfare and all of that that you can experience. Is it worth it in terms of the course? I don't know. Again, that's something that you have to decide for yourself. So I will say, I am very on the fence about going because of the course. It does not suit me at all. It's like a 35-minute climb that you do twice with what I've been told, a not very technical descent. So it's like power to weight ratio. And that's kind of what's impacted my decision to go or not go this year. Yeah, the question is like, what does it mean to you to race at worlds?

Because if you're just going for the race itself, it sounds like it's not like it's this Kona-esque thing, I guess, where you fly to an island or whatever like that. No, it's a bigger deal than any other X-Dera, just like Kona is a bigger deal than any other Iron Man, but it is not that level of like you will remember this for the rest of your life because of their 17,000 spectators and, you know, volunteers. But I will say Eric Stair does an incredible job. I recommend doing their stuff. You just got to decide it's worth it.

Yeah. Okay. Well, the second question was, how technical is the bike course? I'm a good mountain biker, not great on the technical stuff. So it sounds like maybe this is kind of ideal if you're specifically looking for a non-technical kind of dissent. Yeah. I think so. I've been told there's like mile, two miles of single track flow trail. I think that the ascent is a little bit technical and it tends to get wet there.

And so getting having a good tire and having good abilities like at low speed, pedaling uphill, not letting your tire slip. That is a big thing. But in terms of, you know, like super technical descending, I don't think that's as much of a factor. Do you feel like the same person who is really good at technical ascent? is the same person who's good at technical dissent, or can these be two different athletes? They can be two different athletes, or they can be the same athlete.

I think the eye hand coordination or eye foot coordination, whatever, and the ability to pick a line is super applicable, but a lot of descending is like how much do you want to risk and how much do you want to risk in practice to get a little bit better, to get a little bit better? Versus you could be really good at techie uphill stuff and have really good power and ability to maintain traction

and be smooth, but have no interest in going really fast downhill and getting air. Right, because the penance for screwing up an uphill technical section is just like, whatever, you lose traction, you tip over, maybe you put your foot down. It's like bouldering.

Yeah, right, right, like bouldering and climbing. Yeah. I love techie uphill stuff. It's pretty brutal when your heart rate is 190 and you're dying, but in terms of like sessioning, a rock thing that is hard to get up. Like me and Curtis, my friend who ride mountain bikes with and Ben before he moved,

we would just like sometimes work a project uphill rock in here for like 30 minutes just trying to figure out how to get up it and all little moves you have to do. And that's a completely different mindset than let's go as fast as we can down this flow trail. Yeah, right, right, cool.

Okay, and before we move on to the next little thing here, I was curious if you guys had a kind of favorite thing, triathlon sports-based thing that came across that you came across in the last week. I don't know, my favorite thing might be

that like, Eric, you submitting that mountain with Brian. Oh my God. That was wild. That was epic. That is probably the coolest mountain that I've been to the top of so far.

Yes, just how many, two days after your wedding, live in life. Do you have something that you saw that's kind of like they've been rattling around your brain? we haven't gotten it yet but I am super hyped on this new

Ceram Explore 13 speed thing So what 13 12? I feel like 12 just happened So what is the deal with this? This one goes to 13 more is better It's just like spinal tap where the amp goes to 11 Yeah This goes to 13 Because I mean like on gravel basically we're running these super wide cassettes

They go from 10 to like 46 or whatever And now you can either go just one slightly bigger gear if you're having that or you can get a little bit more spacing in room in the middle. Because with this 1046 thing, you have these big jumps in the middle and just having one extra gear. So it opens up a whole new thing. Can you explain to me physically how this is fitting? Is it once again just getting everything is getting tighter or is there more room overall

for the cassette? I think they actually, I think the chain is the same. same. I haven't looked that deep into it because we've been getting married. But I think I saw somebody say that it's they fit. It's like the same chain and they just fit. I don't know. Dark magic. It's so, God, it's crazy. Yeah. And that also, you know, you get with that whole situation, you get like the new improved ergonomics of the levers that Sramm just came out with. So every time I see that pop up, I get really excited. And is it for road mountain and gravel? No, I think it's just gravel right now.

I think it's just their explorer. Gravel. Yeah. Do you see that coming to road? I mean, or is road, you think, is 12, like, pretty ideal already? I don't, I mean, I can't see why they wouldn't. Like, you know, I'm sure everybody who had nine speed is like, how can we possibly need more? Like, we were riding around with five, you know, a few decades ago.

Like, nine is insane. And here we are at 12 and now 13. So, I don't know. I can't see why they wouldn't eventually make it under the road. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I also cannot believe the chain is the same size and somehow works. Amazing.

If it is, I mean, you could do some sort of like Jerry Rig set up on a TT bike and get one more gear in the middle. Oh, my gosh. I mean, the cassettes are not, yeah. Wow. It gets the gears turning. Oh, it gets the gears turning all right. Yeah, it does. It was not intended.

Yeah, well, it worked great. Paula, what about you? Is there anything? Or have you been wedding mode? 100% Yeah, as soon as we left for the wedding last week, or two weeks ago, I guess now, I'm kind of,

I checked out from literally everything. It wasn't even intentional, but I just fully just focused on the wedding, the people that came visiting people. I didn't really go on Instagram that much. I stopped watching the Olympics, which is crazy, since I'm so into that.

So I just feel now a little bit, I don't, I feel behind, but in a way where I don't feel like I need to catch up on anything. That's nice. That's healthy. Things happened and I don't care. And I feel like I need to embrace that a little bit more in my day-to-day life, less Instagram, less caring what other people are doing, not in a self-indulgent way, just in a less obsessed with, you know,

letting other things affect my mood and paying attention to what other people are doing, especially in triathlon because we're so close to it. Entrenched in it. So, yeah, the question is kind of, timely for this week where I don't even know what happened and I'm happy to not even answer it. Right, right. I got one for you. I got one for Paul. Don't worry. Okay, what is it, Eric? The 4 by 100. Oh. That was freaking insane. Canada. Gold and the 4 by 100. Spoilers. Yeah.

Canada has always been good at sprinting. Yeah, but this, like, what's so epic about this is not a single one of them made it into the final in their respective events. That is awesome. It's truly a team effort. It really shows how critical the baton passes are. And the U.S. fudged it up and didn't even get a medal. So Canada's flawless transition from one athlete to the next was what won them the race. And then obviously four extremely fast, talented people. But great for Canada.

It's so funny, like going from the U.S. to Canada halfway through the Olympic Games because we got a little bit of both coverage. We got the Peacock NBC coverage and we got the CBC Canadian coverage and what they focus on and the commentators are completely different. The ads are different. It just feels different. And as a Canadian, I really enjoyed watching

the Canadian highlights and yeah, we might not win as many medals, but they're showing the guy who comes seventh in a race because that's an amazing achievement. And in the U.S., I feel like there's so many athletes that do win and do get medals that that's all you're seeing when you watch the primetime coverage.

Yeah. Canada doesn't have medals, but they're much more uncommon because the U.S. is so dominant. So interesting contrast. Speaking of that, shout out to Italy, who did an amazing job this year with so many medals for the most small of a country. They had 39 medals, which is 12 more than Canada. Were they just like crushing it in track or swimming something that has a lot or just really evenly split? There was some good Italian swimmers. I was talking to my mom about it today,

and she was saying that the women specifically did a really good job for Italy, which is, to me, it challenges this idea I have of Italy as like a less progressive country in those terms, a little more traditional gender roles kind of country in the way they approach it. Canadian women won the majority of the medals as well. Dang. Dang. We're here for the women's rights. Oh, for sure.

Speaking of which, I, yesterday, for the first time watched the 4 by 400 women's. Did you guys see that? Yeah. If you haven't, you have to watch that. Incredible performance from the winning team. All right. What I do love about the Olympics now is that you can go back on YouTube and rewatch all these races. Or on peacock, if you can just go and relive it.

That's why I was not stressed about missing them in real time as the week went on last week, because I knew I could just tune in later and rewatch them. And it brings just as much excitement to me, even though I know it's already. played out. But the problem is here, we got to start watching the Tour de France. Them.

Avex Zwift. Yeah. We've got a lot of things to catch up on. But, you guys want to know my dream is? Nick,

Nick hasn't given a thing. Oh, my thing. Gosh. Hollowing all philosophical and we haven't even finishing the thing. My thing. Hmm.

Well, it could be anything. It could be music too. Just like cool stuff. Well, I've kind of fallen back in love with this song La Vian Rose, which is an Edith Piaf song,

but there's an English version of it. Can we, can I disclose how that relates to this weekend? Well, Le Vion Rose, my sister and Nick sang it at our wedding. And Nick created a little video with all the clips he got from the week, informal but beautiful, with that soundtrack overlaid on it.

So Nick, you said that that song is going to be on Spotify. Yeah, it's going to be, yeah, it is. Well, I wasn't expected to talk about it on the podcast. But yes, Adrian and I, Paula's sister, we technically have a musical group called Border Run. We already have two songs out, and they're kind of like wintery songs, but this is kind of a funny story.

Paula sent me a video of Adrian singing La Vienne Rose with a ukulele. Years ago. And I thought it would be fun to take that recording and then build an arrangement around the recording with much more instrumentation and then also sing harmony throughout the entire recording and then I sent it back to you. And then I forget like Paul, your dad really liked it. And then my dad listened to it like seven billion times.

And I love it. It's beautiful. So you can listen to that on border run on Spotify. I have no problem plugging this because my sister is also involved. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If we can blow you guys up and make you guys. 17 cents. Yeah, because we're going to have to split the money with a rest in peace, Edith Biaf.

But yeah, and then you, it was your idea. You're just like, what if that was the song that we did our first dance to? And that came from that recording. So it's kind of a fun story in a roundabout way. This is what I mean. Every single thing we did at our wedding had a meaning and a reason. Yeah. Yeah, that's really nice.

That's why it was so great. Well, if not that, then I'll say something that I really liked since technically we haven't talked about it because it happened after our last aired podcast, was the triathlon relay, and that relates very well to this final question here. The triathlon relay was epic. I thought that was amazing to see Taylor Nibb, like, claw back and get to the finish, all three of those athletes together.

That was amazing. But the question here is, why did none of the athletes in the Olympic triathlon have on sport watches? Some of them had them in their hand during the run, but that was it. It was just a WTS rule. I can't imagine. Can you imagine putting a watch on? It's not a rule.

I, in my whole career of WTS, never wore a watch in the race. You're just going flat out. Like, who cares about your face is? If you looked at your watch, it would be bad. You would be afraid. Although Hayden Wilde was running with a watch in his hand, and he looked at it so often.

So I think some athletes actually do use it, and that's obviously works for him. He did look at it right before he slowed down a lot and got passed by LTE. It wasn't because of his watch. I don't know. Maybe he saw his lactate was spiked or something. Well, the reason they're not putting it on their wrist, I assume,

is because it's actually really hard to put a watch on while you're running. And in a 70.3, I hate it. It's like fumbley. We often don't put them on for a 70.3 just because of that. Freaking threading that little deal while running. You know what? We're all switching to the Velcro straps. Listen to that.

Oh, that's a good sound. Yeah, I got a watch of the Velcro strap. I... You don't like it. That's the way. Oh, yeah, yeah, same. For sure, it's the way. Also, I mean, the big thing with getting back to the original question, though,

is you're going as hard as you can. You're going with the race. It's not so much of a matter of pacing. Nobody's pacing this. They go out at like 240 per kilometer and then slow down to like 253 per kilometer. What about Strava, though? Yeah, I mean, you get Strava. These guys are way too fast and cool for Strava.

Yeah, they're not even on Strava. And then also, like, you know, Canada has three coaches there. the U.S. has 17 coaches there. There's people, if you say before the race, hey, I want to split at 2K, somebody will be standing there at 2K to yell the split to you. That's like, you've got support

for that kind of thing, if that's what's important. By the way, I don't know if I ever told you guys this, but did you know that Alex Ye listens to the podcast occasionally? Because I don't know if I forgot to tell you, I think. At Malibu Tri, there was a Super League thing there. And he did, like, the same day I race, the Super League athletes do like a charity, relay thing.

Sorry, I didn't say anything because I'm shocked. It's not that I am still here. I can see Eric's face of shock, but on the podcast, listeners can't. And Alex Yee had done the relay. They pair the athletes with celebrities to try to raise money. And when he crossed the line, we kind of made eye contact and we started talking. And then it came out, he's like, yeah, he's like, yeah, I listen to the podcast every now and then.

And I remember being like, wow, that is a weird kind of a, I don't know, class. of worlds. We're not talking about how to get the last 0.01% out of your Olympic campaign. What could we be contributing? He must really need to de-stress. I've heard that Alex E. is probably the nicest person in the whole sport. Wow. Well, he was super nice to me.

He's going to have a lot of competition for that title because I think we got a lot of great people in the sport. We do. God, this weekend was another proof of that. Why? What happened this weekend? Well, I'm just saying the professional triathletes who attended your wedding were awesome. There's just super sweet people. We know all the best ones, obviously.

But I think you're right. But I think the majority, at least on the women's side, that's mostly who I know, but are great. And for the dopers. No, man, nobody brought that up. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That all transpired while we were at our wedding, so we didn't really pay attention to. But I think he blamed it on eating.

chicken. Chicken, yeah, chicken. Yeah, convenient. I thought Joe Skipper's Post was freaking... With the eggs? Yeah, that's good. That's good. You know, that's a good thing. The sport is the anti-doping agencies

are doing what they're supposed to do. Yeah, it is a good thing. It is a good thing. It's a little sad, but it's good. I was watching his fighting chance from Boulder when he then didn't even show up at the Star Line in Boulder, but he was so Aragon in his pre-race interview. He's like,

I'm here to win. I'm the best. I remember that. We were like, who is this guy? Yeah, he just won Texas, but like, cool your jets. And then he d-n-sed, did not start. And now this... His jets could not be cool. They were artificially hotter than fire. Yes.

And it's a little bit of... I don't know, whatever. That's all we'll say about the dope. Yeah, if you want to hear like a super in deep tearing that whole situation apart, I think you can go listen to the pro-Chinese podcast. Yeah, I think they do. did a deep dive on it because they're experts over there. We like talking about non-consequential things.

Right. Exactly. Okay, well, that's all we had this week. Thank you guys. I know you are both quite ill. I will say that never once recording the podcast have I looked at the timer and thought, oh shit, just 20 more minutes to go. But this week I did.

You did. Oh, man. I'm feeling rough. Sorry, Paula. Your face looks kind of red, too. Yeah, I think I I can't tell if that's just the light in here. Hopefully we're not using this video because I look like I'm on my deathbed.

Yeah, we can not use. We can do a black and white. We can make it black and white. Yeah, make it black and white. How does the lighting look though? Because I'm experimenting with different setups. I know. It makes this look like tomatoes. That's what it makes it look like.

But you're beautiful, fast tomatoes. I don't think I look pretty red compared to Nick. Eric, you look, well, I got the olive skin. Eric, you look good to me. I feel like I'm halfway between Nick and you. I got the Italian olive skin. Well, we'll keep working on it because it is my goal to have little snippets of video snippets each week. So I just got to keep playing around with it.

I think it looks good. I think it looks good. All done. Okay. Well, we'll talk to you guys next week. Thanks for listening. And don't forget to send in your questions to that troutonlif.com. We need them to make this podcast happen.

Thank you, guys. Thanks, everybody. Later.